Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1345 | 'No Contact': The Toxic Trend of Cutting Off Parents

Starting point is 00:00:00 Going no contact with your parents, is this ever justified? Well, it is a very pervasive trend on social media and in therapy culture today. What is the truth about it? Why is this happening? And most importantly, what is the Bible have to say about this? We've got all of this and much more on today's episode of Relatable. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful Mother's Day weekend. If you love this podcast, can you please leave us a the five-star review. That would be so appreciated on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify. If you don't subscribe on YouTube, I encourage you to. A lot of times we have visuals up here that you might not see if you're just a podcast listener like I am. So no shame. I like to listen when I'm on a

Starting point is 00:00:54 walk or carpool or things like that. But if you can subscribe on YouTube, that would really help us a lot. Also, share the arrows tickets are available to you. If you go to share the arrows.com, October 11th, October 10th. every time I say October 11th, because it was October 11th last year, October 10th, Dallas, Texas, is going to be amazing. Our Christian Women's Conference, this is a no-fluff gospel-centered worship-filled friendship-making women's conference, and I'm so excited about it if you're watching. You can see all the wonderful speakers that we have. Can't wait for Shane and Shane leading worship. Go to Share the Arrows.com, and I will see you there. Share the Arrows this year is brought to you by WeHeart Nutrition.

Starting point is 00:01:37 All right, let me start off this week, this day by reminding you, God's eternal plan of redemption, it's going off without a hitch completely. Last time I checked, the last time I read my Bible, I said, oh, yep, there it is. He's never surprised. He's never taken it back. He's never caught off guard. He's never looking at your life, looking at the state of the world, looking at our political situation and wondering how the heck did this happen. I didn't see that coming. I don't know how to clean up this mess. I don't know how to put things back together. I guess I got to figure it out, get to get to together with my angels and do this kind of huddle to figure out how we're going to clean up this mess down here. That's not how God works. God is totally sovereign. He is not limited by our linear timeline.

Starting point is 00:02:17 He is not limited by time and space. He knows everything and he is all powerful. And sometimes with that knowledge, it's easy to think, wow, how does he allow all these bad things to happen? If I were in charge, I wouldn't allow these bad things to happen. And I totally understand the temptation to think that, whether you're thinking about hardship in your own life or just tragedies and evils that go on in the world. But I always go back to Psalm 37. And I'm reminded that God is never doing nothing, that his wrath against evil,

Starting point is 00:02:46 against true oppression is kindling. It is growing. And that his eternal plan of redemption, which includes defeating evil and the evil one forever and ever. And fully redeeming and protecting and preserving and avenging his people, that day is coming.

Starting point is 00:03:03 His victory is sure. He is never doing nothing. And one day there will be no more sin. There will be no more sadness. There will be no more despair. There will be no more disappointment. No more cancer. No more abortion.

Starting point is 00:03:16 No more injustice. No more lawlessness. No more chaos. No more confusion. And Jesus is going to rule in perfect peace in totality forever and ever. This is a light and momentary affliction, even when it doesn't seem like it. And the glory that we are promised as Christians, not because of anything we've done, but because of what Christ did for us on the cross, it's sure. And that's where our hope and where

Starting point is 00:03:40 our joy comes from. So I just want to remind you of that. And in light of that, what do we do? What do we always say? We adopt a phrase that I heard Elizabeth Elliott say a lot and then we've added to it over the years. Do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. Do the next right thing. That's it. In faith with excellence and for the glory of God, in light of this grand eternal plan of redemption, that next right thing could be changing a diaper with joy. It could be reading Dr. Seuss to your child. It could be writing a really excellent email to a client. It could be treating your neighbor with kindness.

Starting point is 00:04:12 It could be cooking a good dinner. It could be doing some big, bold act of faith and obedience that you know God has called you to, but that you've been scared to do. Or it could be an unseen and unsung private act of obedience that you know that the Lord is leading you to do or to say. do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God, knowing that God is totally in charge and he's taking care of the rest. I have to preach myself to myself that every day and I also just want to encourage you with that as well. All right. Today is Theology Monday and it could also be topical Monday because we're really talking about things that are more evergreen, things that are less tied to the news cycles or something that is going viral. And rather than, something that is going on with the culture and what the Bible has to say about it, or maybe it's just a strictly theological idea that I see people confused about. And it's not that I have all of

Starting point is 00:05:12 the answers in the world, but I'm navigating this with all of you trying to go back to the word of God to seek the clarity that he so graciously gives us in scripture. And today I want to talk about a trend that I've noticed on social media and been very disturbed by over the past several months, but even over the past few years, and that is the trend of going quote unquote, no contact with your family, specifically with your parents. And this really kind of intersects with the therapy culture conversation that we had a couple weeks ago. I really encourage you to go back and to listen to that episode, watch that episode. It's proven very controversial on Christian therapy Instagram. But if you actually go back and you listen to my entire analysis of it, you'll see

Starting point is 00:05:59 that it's not black and white my assessment that it really is in effort to look at therapy and counseling in light of God's wisdom and what he actually says. And I want to do the same thing with this topic. So if you don't even know what I'm talking about, there's this big trend on social media, especially TikTok, of people proclaiming that they are no contact with their family. No contact means you're not talking to them anymore. There's this woman who kind of went viral. She claims that her life suddenly started to go right. The things started to really come together after she cut her family off completely. This is not one.

Starting point is 00:06:34 You want to know what's crazy. After I went no contact with my mom and basically my entire family, I started receiving so many blessings. When I was still in contact with my mother and she was draining my life force, like literally draining my life force out throughout my whole life. And when I finally had enough and gathered, some strength from I don't know where to leave that situation. My blessings started pouring in like that. All of my manifestations started coming to me in physical form just like that.

Starting point is 00:07:09 Okay, so lots of issues with this. I don't claim to know every detail of this person's life. Maybe her mother really was doing completely terrible things to her and that she had to set some healthy boundaries. And we'll get into that, as you'll see. But this mentality, is very prominent. And this woman is wearing a cross necklace. She probably claims to be a Christian. And yet what you've just heard there is completely self-centered and completely new age. This idea that once I do this, once I fulfill the thing that I want to do, once I make the choice that is best for me, then all of my blessings will fall into place. We talked about this mentality a lot and you're not enough and that's okay. And this is one particular manifestation of what I call the cult of

Starting point is 00:07:54 self-affirmation, which tells you, if you learn to find fulfillment and love and satisfaction within yourself, if you go on this road of self-discovery, you will go so deeply inside yourself that you will unlock the manifestation of all of your dreams. You'll find that actually you are this perfect goddess who has the power to accomplish everything that you want. This is a big kind of Glennon Doyle idea. She really pushes this kind of narrative in her book, Untamed, and even the books preceding that, very popular among women, including people who call themselves Christians. Okay, this is another woman. She posted a year update on her no contact policy with her parents.

Starting point is 00:08:37 So it's been a year since I've gotten no contact with my parents. A few months after going no contact with my parents, I had to distance myself from my entire biological family. I thought that I was like unique in this way. I never expected to ever distance myself from my parents to ever be in a situation. I thought I was nuts. I thought it was crazy. I didn't know what I was doing.

Starting point is 00:09:02 It was just like my body and my soul were saying, you need, it's time to step away. And losing that, I gained myself. I've gained confidence. I've gained self-love. I've gained understanding. So again, without knowing the details of this, I just want to highlight what this mentality is and how it is echoed over and over again, I did this thing I found myself. And remember Jesus's words, if you want to find yourself, you'll lose yourself. If you want to live,

Starting point is 00:09:33 you must die. If you want to gain what I offer you, you must lose all of these things. And this mentality here is the opposite. If I want to find myself, it's not that you have to deny yourself. It's that you have to deny others. If you want to gain, it's not that you have to lose yourself. what you have, you have to lose others. And so it's actually this exchange. Again, the cult of self affirmation, the worshiping of the God of self. This particular mentality reflects that. And it seems to influence people into going quote unquote no contact with their parents. I know a lot of you out there, like my situation is different. We'll get into all of that. This particular perspective is the one that I want to highlight today and all of the problems with it. Let me pause, tell you about

Starting point is 00:10:20 your first sponsor, our first sponsor for the day, and that is range leather. I love range leather. I have so many of their products. My favorite product right now, because it changes as I get new stuff from range leather, is their leather tote bag. I always take it with me when I travel. It is so roomy. I can put anything in it. It's super easy to clean and it's so durable. In fact, there's a lifetime guarantee for all of their products, their hats, their belts, their accessories, everything is just so good. So if you are looking for a super high quality gift to give someone in your life, I really encourage you to go to range leather, especially as Father's Day is coming up. Like they've got a lot of good manly gift items for that person in your life, that father in your

Starting point is 00:11:01 life that is really hard to buy for. Go to range leather.com. Kyle and Bailey, they're the couple, a Christian couple that owns range leather. They're the real deal. They're awesome. Go to range leather.com and you'll get 10% off of all range leather products. that's range leather.com slash alley range leather.com slash alley. Okay, so what is no contact? No contact. This is according to psychology today. It's a deliberate strategy in which a person

Starting point is 00:11:34 completely cuts off all forms of communication and interaction with another individual usually means a family member. So no phone calls, no text, no emails, social media interactions, in person meetings. And it usually is preceded by some kind of declaration. And usually it's some kind of therapist that has encouraged a person to go, no contact. I've seen people post, and it seems even boast about this when it comes to grandparents and grandchildren. And I do just want to say that so often the reasons given are not actually abuse, they're very often some kind of disagreement. And I'm not even talking that the grandparent is like emotionally manipulating or doing something horrible to the grandchildren, but there's just a difference in perspective, very

Starting point is 00:12:21 often that is what is precipitating in these social media no contact stories, the decision to sever all relationship between grandparents and grandkids or parents and kids. According to New York Post survey, more than one third of Americans. One third of Americans reportedly cut off all communication with a friend or family member last year. A lot of it very often has to do with politics. And look, I understand if someone were super, abortion in my life, I'm not saying that I would continue to be friends with them. I'm much more

Starting point is 00:12:56 concerned with this idea of almost arbitrarily throwing off all hope of a relationship, specifically with your parents. Where did this come from? Has it always been a thing? Did social media create it? Did the age of Trump and the polarization of politics create this? The truth is, is that according to to polls, this no contact trend has increased in mainstream culture over the past few years. it exploded in the 2020s, especially with Gen Z and social media platforms like TikTok. So many, I think, of the harmful trends that we see today are part of a social contagion. Also, there's a Reddit community, a strange adult child. It's increased visitors by 47%.

Starting point is 00:13:41 And so, you know, we've always heard of estranged parents, especially estranged fathers throughout history, but this isn't a strange child, a child who has chosen to go, contact. There are almost half a million posts on TikTok with a no contact hashtag. Videos featuring hashtag no contact generated 1.6 billion views in 2023 alone. This is an example of someone who says that she went no contact because of the words of her parents. Sot 3. Your millennial child going no contact with you isn't because they're ungrateful. You fed and watered them for 18 years. It's because they told you. you a hundred times what hurt them.

Starting point is 00:14:23 And instead of listening, you played victim, became emotionally abusive. And then they had to set a boundary to protect themselves the way you wouldn't protect them. Who said that? I think the problem with this is that we don't actually know, like, so much of the reasoning that I see on social media for going no contact. It's so broad and it's so vague. We don't know what she means by emotional abuse. We don't know what she means by protection. If you're talking about, like, actual abuse, like, if you're talking about actual, like,

Starting point is 00:14:56 harmful, hateful actions and words, okay, like, that's one conversation to have. The problem with this is that this category of justification for going no contact is so large. And it encompasses everything from petty offense to political disagreements, to not liking your parents tone to your parents in your mind just being too judgmental. There are so many reasons that are covered under this that I think are awful reasons to cut off your parents. Even Oprah and her audience say that a lot of them have gone no contact with their parents. Top four. Bristol, go ahead. I have been no contact with my entire family for a year and a half now.

Starting point is 00:15:43 No contact. No contact. Not a phone call, not a text, not a text, not a nothing. Nothing. For a year and a half now. Okay. Chris, how about you? It's been four years since I've had contact with my parents and my siblings. Four years? Not a word. Not a word. Okay. And Kendall. I've been no contact with my 30-year-old son for two years. By your choice. By choice. Okay. I just find this to be really sad. We might not know the reasoning behind it, but I find that this, that the fact that this is a trend, that this is becoming more and more common and more and more pervasive, in my opinion, in my opinion, it often has to do with our own fragility and our own narcissism, our own selfishness, our own desire to avoid discomfort and inconvenience in every case,

Starting point is 00:16:36 no, certainly not in every case. But I think in a lot of these cases, I do not think it's a coincidence that as we become more obsessed with self-fulfillment and self-love, that difficult relationships and disagreements become more and more intolerable. One of the key shifts, according to the New York Post, is that today definitions of abuse and neglect have been broadened. Young people going, no contact with parents often emphasize emotional neglect, boundary violations. Look, emotions and feelings are absolutely real. They do, matter. I'm not saying that they don't. I don't know that that is a reason to say I'm never going to talk to this person again, especially a parent, especially the people who gave you life.

Starting point is 00:17:22 The most common reason for going no contact cited by 36% of participants was that the other person treated them with a lack of respect. Again, so broad. What does that mean? Additional key reasons included the relationship having a negative effect on their mental health. What does that mean? 29%. And the other person being generally too negative, 27%. Like, it's not good to be around constantly negative people, bad company corrupts good character. That is a biblical truth that we can live by. Maybe that's true with an acquaintance or a coworker or a friend. When it comes to your parents, I do not believe that these are justifications for cutting them off.

Starting point is 00:18:00 73% of the respondents to the survey said they feel inclined to distance themselves from loved ones when they experience difficulty rather than openly communicating to solve the problem. There are actually no studies, and this is very telling, no studies of this phenomenon before the social media era. This trend is especially prevalent, also telling to me, among those who identify as gay or transgender. A recent study shows that half of LGBTQ people are estranged from their families. And I think that people would look at that and automatically assume that, oh, that's because their families aren't accepting. That's because their families won't celebrate them. Well, that might actually be true, but I guarantee you a large percentage of those families say, I love you, I want a relationship with you. I can't agree with you identifying as the opposite

Starting point is 00:18:52 sex. I can't agree with you living this lifestyle because it's actually very dark, but I want to still have a relationship with you. I can guarantee a large percentage of the relationship dynamics in that percentage is characterized by what I just explained and that it's actually the person who identifies as LGBTQ saying, no, it's a lot. If I cannot be unapologetically celebrated because of how I now identify, I'm not going to be friends with you. That, again, is not a problem with the parents living by their convictions. It is a problem with the child who has elevated their own sexual and gender desires above the cohesion of their family. And also just to fragility to say you can only be around family members that will assent to every single thing that you do.

Starting point is 00:19:41 And that's an unfair, unrealistic, and narcissistic expectation. All right, we've got more on this in just a second. Let me pause. Tell you about our next sponsor is Adele Natural Cosmetics. This is a Christian founded, family-owned company. So many of my sponsors are, I truly, can I just say I have the best sponsors in the world. I love their products. I love their values.

Starting point is 00:20:00 I just love what they do and what they offer. And when I tell you about them, like I really want you to use them like Adele Natural Cosmetics. They are just the best family. so unapologetically pro-life, faith forward, and I wouldn't be telling you about them if I didn't also love their products. I love their essential cleanser, wear it every day, whether I'm wearing a little makeup out of the studio or whether I'm wearing my studio makeup. It works. It cleans my skin really well without breaking down that skin barrier that so many sudsy and fake face washes do.

Starting point is 00:20:34 Nothing endocrine disrupting. Nothing is synthetic. Everything is from, as they say, God's medicine and cabinet. The same is true of their cosmetics. They always have new kinds of products that they're putting out throughout the year. Their packaging is adorable. I just love it all around, and I've been using them for years, and I can't say enough good things about them. Go to adele Natural Cosmetics.com. Use code Alley. You'll get 25% off your first time purchase when you do. Adele Natural Cosmetics.com, code Allie. Abigail Shrier, she wrote a book. She wrote two books, and I've talked to her about both. She is awesome. One of them is called Bad Therapy. And She has also talked about the trans-community, so-called trans-identifying community, uses going no

Starting point is 00:21:22 contact in a cult-like manner. She argues that people who say that their transgender often cut off their family and then replace them with a quote unquote glitter family of accepting LGBTQ friends as a replacement, according to commentary magazine. Another factor driving family estrangement is politics. So according to a 2024 survey, one in five of those estranged from family. members cited political, this is according to Time magazine actually, cited political differences as the reason. Political differences among those estranged over politics nearly half reported

Starting point is 00:21:57 that the break occurred within the year leading up to the 2024 election. And I actually have some experience with this. I have seen this firsthand and I won't go into too much detail, but there is a family member, not in my immediate family. Thank you, Lord. But there is a family member who over the past few years has become very liberal. And I can say the conservative members of my family have tried very hard to maintain this relationship with this person whose values have drastically changed over the past eight or so years. It is this person who refuses to maintain the relationship with everyone else. And these conservatives are in my family are not trying to change her mind. They're not trying to constantly talk about politics. In fact, they're okay

Starting point is 00:22:43 with avoiding the political conversation, they just really want to maintain a relationship with this person. And yet this person in my extended family does not want that because politics for them has become so much more important than even the relationships in her immediate family. And so I'm not saying that that's true in every single case. That seems to be the trend, though, that it is the progressive family member that is holding the boundary of saying, no, my politics are actually more important than my friendship or my relationship with my siblings, my relationship with the people that used to be the closest in my life. The root of this no contact trend can actually be traced back. Like so many of these things that are not actually new to someone named Salvador

Starting point is 00:23:28 Manuchin. He was a family therapist and he developed the theory of structural family therapy in the 1960s. Manuchin's theory was that healthy families had clear boundaries in families where there weren't enough boundaries, individuals become enmeshed. For families that had two rigid boundaries, they would become disengaged. He was a popular secular psychologist, and his goal, he said, was healthy balanced relationships between family members. But the boundaries concept that he popularized is now being hyperbabilized. It is being taken to new lengths and it is being used in a way that maybe he didn't originally intend, and it is being used to produce families that are completely estranged. Obviously, there are such things as good boundaries.

Starting point is 00:24:19 And within your family, you come up with rules, you come up with parameters, you come up with values, and you decide, like, what is a non-negotiable? What are the kinds of people and the kinds of views that we don't want around our children, that we don't want around ourselves? there is a healthy enforcement of boundaries. But this arbitrary or this very narcissistic, I'm going to push all of these blood-related people in my life away because they won't affirm everything I believe in. That is extremely dangerous. There are many in the no-contact crowd that cite childhood trauma as a reason for cutting off

Starting point is 00:24:58 parents. But the trauma that they so often talk about on TikTok, it bears very little. resemblance to what psychologists actually affirm is trauma. Most of the studies focus on physical or sexual abuse when we're talking about trauma, but the main focus for this no contact crowd hinges on emotional trauma, which as we've already said is extremely vague. So the user courage coaching on social media explains parents' faults that cause no contact allegedly sot-6. It is because they haven't been able to apologize for the hurt that they've caused and because they continue to hurt their adult child.

Starting point is 00:25:41 They continue to overstep boundaries. They continue to act in an emotionally immature way. They don't take accountability for any abusive behavior. They don't go to therapy to improve how they relate to their children. That is why adult children go no contact because the parent is not willing to change. Okay, someone acting in an emotionally immature way is not a reason to cut them off. I'm just going to say that outright. I'm just going to be very black and white about that.

Starting point is 00:26:17 Every single person you included, you included every single person has acted in an emotionally immature way. I just, if you're in this crowd, I just want you to ask yourself, do you hold yourself by the same standard to which you're holding other people. Because that's, it's, it's giving lack of self-awareness. There is this guy right here right over my shoulder, whose name is C.S. Lewis, and I'm going to paraphrase one of his quotes. And it just sticks with me, and I think about this all the time, because our sinful nature has such a propensity to think this way,

Starting point is 00:26:51 is that we are far too quick to give excuses to ourselves and far too quick and far too slow to give excuses for others. And so when we're thinking about our own bad behavior, we always have so much context in our head that justifies it. Well, it's this time of the month. It was this time of the day. I had this going on. I have so much that's overwhelming me.

Starting point is 00:27:14 I was overstimulated. And so that's why I acted out in that way. But when other people treat us with the gruffness that we just treated someone else when someone else snaps at us, when someone else is overly emotional or someone else is immature, we don't give them any excuse. We don't give them any context. We don't say, well, maybe they had this going on in their day or this going on in their lives or maybe they were dealing with that. That is just the simple way. We have to train ourselves to think differently. And so those who say, I'm cutting off my parents because they were emotionally immature.

Starting point is 00:27:47 I mean, you think that they enjoyed your temper tantrums when you were 10 years? old or when you were 16 years old and you were still acting like a six year old, I mean, I just think we are so slow to give grace to the people who for so many years of our lives gave grace to us. The way that this phrase childhood trauma is thrown around in discussions of toxic parents is typically a frame, like it's framed in terms of some kind of emotional difficulty so that they can apply to almost anything. So if like a parent was too hands off or a parent was too hands on or a parent was too strict or they weren't strict enough or they didn't let you do the things that your friends were allowed to do or they did let you do the things that everyone

Starting point is 00:28:37 was allowed to do, everything is toxic. Everything is a justification for cutting people off. There was an author who has talked a lot about no contact. Lindsay C. Gibson. Adult children of emotionally immature parents and Nidra Glover to Wob's set boundaries, find peace, a guide to reclaiming yourself. So these are two New York Times bestsellers that have been really popular and popularizing these ideas. They went on Oprah and one of the authors was kind of like called out on her own terms. Seven. Well, how do you, you talk to them about your emotionally immature parent and how do you determine whether a parent is emotionally immature? Yeah. I really stay away from those terms in psychotherapy because I'm not there.

Starting point is 00:29:26 But you wrote a whole book about it. I did write the book. I did write the book. When I'm coming in, I'm coming to the lady. I'm coming to the lady who wrote the book about emotionally immature parents, okay? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Starting point is 00:29:41 I did say that in my book, but I also didn't, Oprah. And I don't know what to say. That's funny. That's one thing I do like about Oprah is that she has like a high threshold for awkwardness. And so she's not afraid to say like what are you talking about? Like didn't she would just say this? And so it's interesting like you see a lot of these people, especially the authors. And we see, you know, I was actually just watching my husband and I were watching the am I racist documentary by Matt Walsh last night. And the same kind of thing. Robin DeAngelo was doing the same kind of thing. Like she's very forth. right on social media and in her book about white fragility, but then when you get her in a room and you try to like pin her on these things and make her say and do the things that she talked about, like they really walk it back. And so all of these people, Robin DeAngelo included, totally different subject, but these New York Times best selling authors who have made so much money off of this,

Starting point is 00:30:39 I don't even know if they really believe the things that they're saying, but it's very lucrative. And it's damaging people's lives. It's ruining people's relationships. People are going to be alone on their deathbed because they read these books and they thought it was justified to cut off their parent because they said one thing that they deemed emotionally immature. That's very sad. The American Psychological Association says that this is extremely prominent and something that we need to pay attention to. Let me pause and tell you about our next sponsor first.

Starting point is 00:31:10 And that is preborn. This Mother's Day month, you can help preborn save as many babies as possible, serve as many pregnant moms in crisis as possible. The goal by the end of May, y'all, is for the relatable audience. I know we can do it. You're one of the most engaged audiences out there, is to serve women with 600 ultrasound. So sponsor 600 ultrasound sessions. Can we do it? 600. We got this. That means that if you can donate $28, that counts as one ultrasound. $28 is what it costs to give a woman a free ultrasound at one of the pre-born pregnancy clinics across the country. Maybe you can't donate a whole $28. Maybe you can only donate $2.80. That's okay. That contributes to that ultrasound.

Starting point is 00:31:56 Maybe you're someone who you can bless pre-born with $2,800. Whatever you can donate, that covers the cost of an ultrasound. That helps save life. So let's do it. Let's get to 600. Go to preborn.com slash alley. Make your donation today. Whatever God is calling you to give, go ahead and give it. dot com slash alley. So the American Psychological Association, actually the statistics that we're going to talk about are really just more about mental health. And the so-called mental health crisis or those who claim to have mental health problems seems to be going hand in hand with this rise in no contact.

Starting point is 00:32:37 37% of Gen Z have received treatment for what they say are mental health problems, 35% of millennials, 26% of Gen X. I would have thought it was a lot more for Gen Z. Actually, as a reminder, Gen Z born between. 1997 in 2012. According to the APA, GENZE is far more likely to report mental health concerns than previous generations.

Starting point is 00:33:00 Abigail Schreier was on the show, and she highlighted how therapy actually might be making the mental health problems of Gensie, and therefore this no-contact problem among Gensie, a lot worse, Sotten. And here's the problem with, in general, sending a bummed-out kid to therapy as opposed to grandma.

Starting point is 00:33:19 you send a bummed out kid to therapy, the therapist's incentive is to treat the least sick for the longest period of time. They want that child coming back. And there's no oversight. There's no one saying, you know, you're really undermining her, you know, respect for her mother.

Starting point is 00:33:39 No one's even tracking it. Unlike with medicine where they're tracking harms, therapists don't even track these. Yeah, instead of to grandma, That is the key term there because family at one point was used as vessels of comfort and compassion and wisdom and tough love. That is the thing that we miss when we replace. I'm not saying all biblical counseling is bad.

Starting point is 00:34:07 I've talked about my journey with biblical counseling that was very healthy and very helpful for me at the time. But it is not a replacement for relationships. That person is getting paid to pretend to be your friend. okay that's not that's not a real relationship you don't have a real friendship with your therapist probably maybe you have an outside the office friendship but i'm not even sure that that's right i'm not even sure that that's ethical like that person is getting paid to like you and paid to talk with you okay that is not a real organic friendship that goes through difficulty that goes through disagreement

Starting point is 00:34:41 that goes through hardship i just think that we no longer have a tolerance for these things and it's really hurting us. It's contributing to this loneliness problem. Your therapist cannot fix your loneliness. Your therapist cannot fix the disconnection that you have in the world, this lack of orientation to understand who you are and why you're here. Part of family's purpose is to give us that. Good, bad and ugly, we look at our parents, we look at our aunts and uncles and we can say, oh, I understand what formed me, what formed my childhood. I learned from that. I don't want to be that way or I do want to be like that or that's something that I can admire. That's something that I don't really want to emulate in my own life. I mean, family in that way, even deeply imperfect families,

Starting point is 00:35:29 they serve a purpose in giving us fulfillment and identity to tell us who we are. And in general, except for some exceptions where real abuse and true toxicity is happening, there is great, great benefit to, I think, weathering those relationships. But here is the narcissistic view. Again, SOT 9, we've got someone saying, oh, going no contact. It's compassionate to yourself. Cutting people off and going no contact, leaving when there is harm and disrespect present, is so incredibly compassionate. It truly is so corrective and grounding for everybody involved. because for you, it deepens the trust that you have in yourself. It deepens the trust that you have in your ability to take care of yourself and to save your own life.

Starting point is 00:36:25 There is no good, beautiful, delicious quality of life without self-trust, without a strong relationship with yourself and leaving when harm is present deepens that bond. Okay, I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. There's so many words that have been TikTokified that like therapy has become TikTokified. And so words that used to have a substantive objective meaning like harm, like compassion, like abuse, that they've morphed. They've become so broad that they don't actually even mean anything. And they're creating weak people and weak relationships. There's this video that I always think of when I think of Charlie Kirk that went around and when people call him, you know, divisive or mean or vitriolic or whatever. I always think

Starting point is 00:37:22 about this video. This is very important, everybody. Even if your parents share values and views and a worldview that you do not have, you are biblically obligated to honor them, which means to spend time with them and to love on them and to go visit them, even if they are wearing a Black Lives Matter and in this home that we have no hate and trans lives, you still go and spend time with your parents. Because if you are incapable, in this case, of honoring your earthly father, you will never honor your heavenly father. Gosh, that is such a good reminder. And I have gotten messages from you guys over the months saying that that video changed your perspective. It is our commandment as children to honor our parents. It is not our parents' commandment to honor us.

Starting point is 00:38:09 There are commands for parents. Like if we look at Ephesians 5, there are dynamics there at play. Like God through Paul says, hey, fathers, don't provoke your children to anger. But also emphasizes children, honor your father and mother. This is the first commandment with a promise that it may go well with you and that you live long in the land. Exodus 2012 is what is being emphasized there. Honor your father and mother. This command to honor our parents. is tied to a promise that we live a long life and that our life goes well. Now, obviously, there are people who are obedient to their parents. So I wouldn't even, I would call it a principle, too, that there are people who are obedient to their parents that don't live a long time.

Starting point is 00:38:57 But I believe that this is a principle that is being spoken to, just like we see in proverbs, that this leads to abundance. This leads to longevity. This is good for you. This leads to your provision and your protection. So how do we honor our parents as adults, especially parents that you might disagree with? I am so thankful that my husband and I share values with my parents, that we share values with his parents. I have a ton of sympathy and compassion for those of you who don't have that situation, that you have parents who really are diametrically opposed to you, that you have in-laws that are diametrically opposed to you and opposed to your kids. I am not trying to negate the complexity of something like that.

Starting point is 00:39:41 But we are called to honor our parents. Part of honoring our parents is remaining open to their wisdom and to their advice, being respectful to them, being kind to them, serving them, even when it's difficult. Proverbs has a lot to say on this subject. Proverbs 1.8 were instructed, hear my son your father's instruction and forsake not your mother's teaching. Proverbs 2322 reminds us, listen to your father who gave you life and do not despise your mother when she is old. And there's nothing there that says, as long as they're still nice to you,

Starting point is 00:40:19 as long as they agree with you, as long as they're not emotionally immature, as long as they don't do anything to you that makes you angry, as long as they don't send short text to you, as long as you can't think back in your life to any time that they didn't treat you fairly. Look, our parents, just like every single human on earth, they're fallible. Like they've sinned in their life. Okay. Like they have their own stuff that they grew up with. They probably had a harder upbringing than you did in a lot of cases. Okay. We're just talking generally. And eventually as adults, again, I'm talking about not, you know, true abuse and continued abuse. But as adults, like eventually, we have to stop blaming our problems on our parents. Eventually, you have to grow up.

Starting point is 00:41:04 And that is also, I think, one detriment to people purposely putting off having kids as long as possible because you having kids really gives you new eyes and a new understanding for your parents. Because you see like all of the sacrifice and all of the love and all of the failures and foibles that you commit as a parent. Like you have a lot of grace for your own parent. and how they did things. And I would guess that a lot of these people that we see in these TikToks, they probably don't have kids themselves. And they also probably preach a lot about empathy, I would guess, but they have an utter inability to put themselves in their parents' shoes. And we can't expect non-Christians to understand this concept of grace and to understand this

Starting point is 00:41:52 concept of sacrifice for the sake of cohesion and honoring your family. But Christians should do everything that we can, everything that we can in a safe way, like truly actually safe to maintain that relationship with our parents and to continue to honor them. Even if your parent is a wild liberal and always wants to talk to you about how much they hate Donald Trump and how they think abortion is great, it is still your responsibility to honor your father and mother. I still don't think that that means that you go no contact with them. Maybe it means that you don't allow them around your kids every single day and there are some boundaries there. I don't think that you cut them off. I don't think that you say no relationship with them. I think it's your

Starting point is 00:42:33 responsibility to share the gospel with them and to show them respect as much as you can and showing them the dignity that sometimes it might feel they don't deserve. I don't think that you understand what kind of seed that could be planning in their heart. We honor our parents by caring for them as they grow older, just as they once cared for us when we could not care for ourselves. And even if they didn't. Even if they didn't, because I know some of you, out there. Maybe you were abandoned by your parents. And it takes a lot of the power of God to say, even if you didn't treat me well, I am going to treat you well. That's what Christians are called to. That is the radical kind of love that the world who says they know what love is does not understand.

Starting point is 00:43:17 That even if you did nothing for me, even if you hurt me deeply, I am still going to serve you when you are weak and you can't help yourself. That is Christian love. Because while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. While we were God's enemies, he sought to reconcile with us. Even when we sinned against him, he who knew no sin became sin so we could become the righteousness of God. Even when we were spitting on him and mocking Jesus, even when our sin placed him on the cross, he said, Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do. That's the craziness that Jesus brought forth. He said, you've heard it said, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, I say to you, turn the other cheek.

Starting point is 00:44:01 Like you've heard it said, I'm paraphrasing here. Like, get revenge on your enemies. I say, do you love your enemies and pray for them? Like that is what Christians are called to do. I would say not only including for our parents, but especially for our parents. Okay, we've got more on this in just a second. Let me tell you about alliance defending freedom.

Starting point is 00:44:21 So America is celebrating 250 years of freedom this year. Our friends at ADF are asking you to take this opportunity to pray for America. you know, they're not even asking in this sponsorship for you to go and donate. I want to ask you to do that, though, because I love ADF so much. I want them to keep doing what they are doing internationally forever. We need smart attorneys to be standing up for our religious liberty, for our freedom of speech, for a right as women and girls to have access to our own sex exclusive spaces. And that is what they are on the front lines fighting for all the way up to the Supreme Court, all the way up to the European highest courts, ever. every single day, so they need our support. But what they are asking me to ask you for is prayer. They want you to pray for our country. They want you to pray for the fights that they're in, protecting Christians, fighting for Christians every day. And so they just want you to have a commitment to pray for America and God's protection over us. So go to join ADF.com slash alley. Sign up to pray with them. Or you can text pray 250 to 838-48. 83848. Pray 250 or join ADF.com.

Starting point is 00:45:29 Psalm slash Ali. Romans 12 tells us, if possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Jesus says this, and gosh, this is so radical. It's radical than it's radical today. It's radical in my own heart. I think it's radical for the world, certainly. Matthew 18, 21 through 22, Lord, how often will my brother sin against me and I forgive him? As many as seven times? Like, that's as much as that person could think seven? Like, surely you're not going to say seven. And Jesus is like, I do not say to you seven times, but 77 times. And I don't think that's an exact number. I think that he is making a statement. I think that he's making a point there. Like, however many times you think is too many times to forgive someone, you have to forgive them

Starting point is 00:46:19 more than that. That's what I'm calling you to do. Now, forgiveness and allowing a person who is truly dangerous to you and your family, either by, maybe you have someone who is constantly trying to tell your kids that God doesn't exist. Certainly if you have someone who is like endangering you or your family physically, like you don't have to be around that person. You don't have to bring that person into your life. But again, if they are a parent, I think if they are a sibling, then there is a way to honor them. If it's truly, truly dangerous, then I think that you pray for them, you love them, you open your heart to the possibility that they could repent and change. But if it is possible for you to continue to have a relationship with them where you're talking to them, then I think

Starting point is 00:47:05 that as far as it depends on us, we have to try to seek peace and reconciliation with them, as hard as that might be. Proverbs 18.1 emphasizes the importance of us having these relationships. Whoever isolates himself, seeks his own desire. He breaks out against all sound judgment. Wow, that is so important. Those of us, those people who truly are cutting off, especially the wisdom of parents out of just disagreement or just personal fulfillment. He is isolating himself because he is seeking his own desire. He is pushing back against all sound judgment. Now, there is this concept of chosen family that I think a lot of people want to say is biblical. This idea that, well, you don't have to be family with your parents. You don't have to be family with your siblings.

Starting point is 00:48:00 that this doesn't really matter. What matters is the people that you choose to surround you. And there, of course, is value and friendship. I believe, again, C.S. Lewis talked a lot about his friendship with Tolkien, for example, and how when Tolkien died, he actually lost more of his other friends. You would think that you would gain more time and more of, say, you have a group of three friends and one of them goes away. You think that you have more time with the friends who are remaining, but actually that person brought out something so special in you and special in other people that when you lose a friend, you lose something in every single person that that person has ever interacted with and touched. And so C.S. Lewis talks a lot about the importance of

Starting point is 00:48:46 friendships, but he also talks about in the four loves. He talks about the different kinds of affection that serve different purposes and the importance specifically of those familial relationships. So he talks about Storgay, that is the affectionate kind of love in Greek. As a love for someone out of fondness or familiarity, especially of parents to offspring, but also of offspring to parents, affection pays little attention to the quality seemed valuable in most relationships and is therefore one of the most transcendent and selfless forms of love of this familial love, C.S. Lewis writes, it is this kind of love, the love that you have with your family that is not the same as

Starting point is 00:49:24 friends. He says it is not discriminating. It can rub along with the most. most unpromising people. Yet, oddly enough, this very fact means that it can, in the end, make appreciations possible, which, but for it might have never existed. We may say, and not quite untrually, that we have chosen our friends and the woman we love for their various excellences, for beauty, frankness, goodness of heart, wit, intelligence, or whatnot, the especial glory of affection is that it can unite those who most emphatically, even comically,

Starting point is 00:49:56 are not people who, if they had not found themselves, but put down by fate in the same household or the same community, would have had nothing to do with each other. This modern tendency that we have, this social media, social contagion to replace our biological family with a chosen family or just ourselves, it totally misunderstands and takes for granted the important nature of familial relationships. nature of those in our family is that we don't choose them. And there is something sanctifying about that. It is easy to love people who are just like you, who affirm everything that you believe, who are easy to love. It is much harder to love the people whom God has providentially placed in your life who don't have your same personality, who you just don't get sometimes, but

Starting point is 00:50:49 out of loyalty to them and gratitude to God for placing them in your life. You choose to love them. And you choose to foster that relationship. So much of this, I think, is just about us taking the easy way out. C.S. Lewis also talks about in the four loves this growing and affection for people that we might not choose to be around actually expand our ability to love all people. And again, I think it's so interesting that the empathy crowd, the hyper empathy crowd doesn't seem to get this. No empathy for the people in their family who have a different perspective. that's the problem actually with emphasizing empathy putting yourself in someone else's shoes

Starting point is 00:51:28 feeling how they feel it's not always bad it's not always bad but it's actually very myopic because if you can't put yourself in someone's shoes and you don't understand their perspective at all then you end up not loving them what we are called to as Christians what CS Lewis is talking about here is actually something much harder and much deeper and much more powerful at saying even if you can't get them even if you can't feel what they feel and you don't know their pain You can't see what they see. You're called to love them. You're called to feel a godly affection for them even when it is difficult.

Starting point is 00:51:59 That is what builds character. That's what makes you a better person. So my message there is, and I think CS Lewis's message, love your family. Love of the people that God has given you that maybe you would not have chosen. Love is much more powerful than your ability to feel what someone else feels. It's much more powerful than community that is based on a shared interest. And I actually think that these online forums like Reddit like Discord becoming a replacement for community, for friendship, yes, but especially familial relationship. And people, young people, and in teens, I think that's a huge part of this.

Starting point is 00:52:38 I think it is so incredibly toxic. I think Satan loves that. Like, Satan hates the family. He hates marriage. He hates that God made man and wife and said that they were very good. He hates that people are mating God's image. He hates that marriage is protective of women and protective of children. That relationship between a godly and providing and protecting husband and a loving, nurturing wife,

Starting point is 00:53:12 and an obedient, loving child. I mean, that is the strongest force. That is the strongest earthly force that we have. And of course, Jesus himself was born out of that. And so there is no question why Satan hates marriage and hates the family and hates those relationships. And of course, he hates love. He hates real sacrifice because that's what Jesus himself embodied. Satan loves narcissism.

Starting point is 00:53:40 He loves convenient relationships. Anything that is good and excellent and worth doing, Satan hates. He wants you to be isolated. We just read why in Proverbs because it's easier to be tempted and to do stupid stuff when you're by yourself. This video is of a YouTuber where he talks about going to contact with his mom for, it seems, for emotional reasons. But then he reconnected to her and just listen closely to why he says he reconnected to his mom, Sot 12. I cut contact with my family and it was one of the toughest decisions I ever had to make. About a year and a half later, I decided to reach out to my mom and we reconnected.

Starting point is 00:54:18 Even though things aren't perfect and our relationship could be rocky at times, I'm glad we did. Honestly, I don't feel like our relationship would be as good as it is today without the time apart. I think my time alone and finally taking care of myself for the first time. It really helped me to start becoming the best version that I am today. Okay, so obviously I don't agree with all of that. I think that the selfishness is still there. oh, I went a year and a half without talking to her. I became myself. I discovered who I was. I think that's a coping mechanism because it's really hard for us to realize I lost a year and a half

Starting point is 00:54:51 of life with this person. You're a year and a half closer to death. Your parent is a year and a half closer to death. And so that's difficult. But the reconciliation there, I'm thankful for that. And I'm thankful for the realization that that is needed. Look, like we have a desire for a need for our parents. They are our source of life and you can talk to people who were given up for adoption. I know they're very thankful for that redemption in their life, but people who don't know their biological parents, people who were abandoned by their parents and they can tell you that they would have settled for imperfect parents as long as they knew where they came from, as long as they were able to have a relationship with them. Like that mother, father hurt that so many people have,

Starting point is 00:55:39 the fact that so many are narcissistically choosing to bear that wound, like, it's a problem. It's a sickness in our culture. And so I just encourage you, like, if you have this distance from your parents to reach out, if at all possible, and to rekindle and reconcile that relationship and put it on yourself. Maybe for a while you have to say, you know what, your parent is not going to be the mature parent that you want them to be. And maybe just say, you know what, God has given me the power. has a Christian to withstand that. God has given me a spirit of power and self-control. God has given me

Starting point is 00:56:15 the ability to love. The love of Christ compels us, not our feelings, not our past, not our therapy. The love of Christ compels us to love other people. Is it possible for you to take this first step to forgiveness and reconciliation? It's difficult. It's really difficult, I know, but I do think that that's what Christ calls us to. All right. I have time, I think, for just one voicemail. I was going to do a couple voicemails. I just don't think we have time for it, but we have a new segment. And I want to do it as often as I can. And that is taking voicemails from you guys and giving you a little advice based on the thing that you asked me. And so you guys sent awesome messages. I wish I could play all of them. And maybe we will play more of them and have an episode dedicated to that at some point.

Starting point is 00:57:02 but if you have a question, if you want advice, especially life advice, but if you've got a topical question too, feel free to call us, leave us a message. It's 844-755-5-2. And so I will get to that piece of advice in just a second. Let me tell you about our last sponsor for the day. First, that is fellowship home loans. Home improvement season is here if you've been putting off that project because you don't know how to pay for it or you're carrying credit card debt that just won't go away. I want you to hear this. Fellowship home loans can help you for 20 years, Mike and Brian have been showing families how to use the equity they already have in smarter ways. A he lock to fund the renovation, a cash out refinanced to consolidate high interest debt

Starting point is 00:57:42 into one lower payment. A home equity loan to finally finish the basement. They'll look at your whole picture and tell you exactly what your options are. Everything is done in-house at Fellowship Home Loans, one roof, one team, all with a servant-led mentality. You are going to love Mike and Brian and their team. Go to fellowshiphomeloans.com slash alley to get $500 back at closing. Fellowship Home Loans, Mortgage Lending by The Book, Nationwide Mortgage Bankers, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, Equal Housing Lender, NMLS number 81932.

Starting point is 00:58:18 Okay, let's listen to voicemail one. Kelly, I am calling because I am 30, and I have a lot of friends in my age range. We're all girls, and we are not married. We want to be married. I feel like it's hard to find a good guy when we're 30 or above. So what life advice do you have for us, the 30-somethings who are conservative, we're Christian,

Starting point is 00:58:48 and we just haven't found the person? Thanks so much. Bye. Okay, this is a great question. I'm so glad you asked. I also have friends in this same boat. Lots of beautiful, accomplished, godly Christian women who want to get married and just have not found that person yet.

Starting point is 00:59:08 and I just wish that I had a formula for you that was going to change it for you tomorrow. Here are three things that I would say. Number one, a lot can happen in a year. I would just say that. I say that all the time and I have seen it happen over and over again. And so don't look at your circumstance today and assume that's how it's going to be and six months from now and a year, two years from now at this point in your life, if you find the right person, the right godly person, and there is a conviction that, hey,

Starting point is 00:59:41 like, we're supposed to be together and we are going to get married. Things can happen very quickly. You just never know. Number two, go where the men are. It's a go where the men are. Are you currently going places where men are? I'm not saying to pursue men. I'm not saying to reach out to men. I am not saying to ask guys out. That is not what I'm going to recommend you do. But are you working out at a place? Are you going to get coffee at a place? Are you working remotely at a place? Are you going to church at a place where there are single men in your age group? Yes, it is possible for God to do absolutely anything.

Starting point is 01:00:17 And I guess you could be sitting on your couch all day and God could bring you your future husband. But he uses particular human means to bring people together. And it seems to me that if you look at the statistics of how people used to meet and used to get married through friends, through family members, at school that God uses community and God uses people being together physically, usually, in order to bring husbands and wives together. So I would say go where the godly men are. He's probably not at your bar class. And then number three, here's what I would say. Of course, in addition to praying.

Starting point is 01:00:58 Praying is the ordained means by which God uses to accomplish so many of his purposes. He doesn't need our request, but he commands us to pray. And so somehow he divinely orchestrates things to happen through the power of our prayers. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working. That is James 5. Of course, you can be honest with the mentors in your life. If you don't have older mentors in your life, you should have older mentors in your life. Not just parents, but people within your church who are counseling you, who are mentoring you, who are disciplining you, tell them your desire to get married. Say, I really want to find a husband. If you know a any godly men, like, would you mind keeping me a mind and introducing me to them?

Starting point is 01:01:39 But this is the last thing that I would say. There is a lie of the devil that sounds really true, as most lies that the devil do, that your life doesn't really start until you get married. You can't really be a biblical woman until you get married until you have kids. That is not true. That is going to be a lie that makes you procrastinate being bold in your faith. Because you think, well, if I am, you know, in March, or I'm an employee or I'm a teacher and I'm single,

Starting point is 01:02:08 then I don't have the fullness of being a woman, of being a Christian woman. And that is not true. Psalm 16 reminds us where the fullness of our joy and purpose comes from. And that is in the presence of Christ. The fullness of joy is at God's right hand. And if you are a Christian, you have bold access in confidence to God,

Starting point is 01:02:27 to the throne of God. So that means you have the fullness of purpose and the fullness of joy right now in this second. you can fully live out your life as a Christian woman with the fullness of a Christian woman identity right now no matter what stage of life that you're in even if you never get married even if you never have kids even if you never get all of the things that you so desperately want the truth is and this is difficult and you might think well it's easy for you to say that because you are married and you have kids it's not easy for me to say because there are lots of things that all of us desire in

Starting point is 01:03:01 life that we have to come to terms with the fact that we are not promised. It doesn't make it easy. But don't believe any health and wealth message that says, if you just believe it, if you just want it, if you just pray for it, you're going to get it. We live in a fallen world. We will die with disappointments. We will die with unmet expectations. We will die with unfulfilled dreams and desires. I hope that is the case that every single person who desires to be married will be married one day, I pray and hope that. I pray and hope that you'll have kids. We're not promised that. We are promised heaven as Christians. We are promised to one day have no more want. And to have no lack. Psalm 23 tells us that that we have no lack if we're being led by God. That means even in

Starting point is 01:03:45 your singleness, even in infertility, we have no lack because of Christ. Much easier said than believed. But God told us these things that we may believe them. So that's what I would say, some practical things, some spiritual things, and then just like some difficult truth that I think that we all need to hear, no matter what stage of waiting or expectation or disappointment that you're in. So I hope that helped. And thank you so much for sending in that voicemail. And thank you for all of you who did. And we'll get to more of them in the coming weeks. You guys are so awesome. And I'll always have really thoughtful questions. All right, that's all we got time for today. We'll be back here on Wednesday.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1345 | 'No Contact': The Toxic Trend of Cutting Off Parents

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.