Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1363 | Female Pastors in the Bible? Responding to a Pastor’s Take 

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Allie tackles the growing popularity of witchcraft on Etsy and among Gen Z in this powerful episode of "Relatable." She breaks down Etsy's crackdown on spell-casting services like love spells, curses, and money rituals, while exposing how platforms continue to profit from the occult and why young women are increasingly turning to witchcraft for clarity and control. Allie also responds to backlash against the Southern Baptist Convention’s vote to ban women pastors, carefully examining the biblical arguments for and against female pastors using Scripture. Plus, she gives advice on a listener voicemail about whether to attend her sister’s wedding to a Mormon. Do you have a question for Allie? Leave a voicemail at 844-755-5252 Share the Arrows 2026 is on October 10 in Dallas, Texas! Tickets are on sale now at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠ Share the Arrows is sponsored by: A'del Natural Cosmetics: AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Range Leather: RangeLeather.com/ALLIE We Heart Nutrition: WeHeartNutrition.com Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ – Time Codes 0:00 Introduction 4:55 Spells Sold on Etsy 31:59 What the Bible Says About Witchcraft 45:17 Pastor Claims the Bible Supports Female Pastors 56:42 Allie Gives Advice – Today's Sponsors: Hillsdale College | Go right now to ⁠⁠hillsdale.edu/relatable⁠⁠ to enroll. There’s no cost, and it’s easy to get started. Patriot Mobile | Go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 972-PATRIOT. Use promo code ALLIE for a free month of service. Fellowship Home Loans | Start with a free consultation at FellowshipHomeLoans.com/Allie and receive a $500 credit at closing. At Freedom Project Academy, the classical online school for pre-K through high school is bringing education back to what matters most: truth, tradition, and biblical values. Go to Freedomforschool.com and SAVE 10% on tuition when you use the code ALLIE. 41% of Netflix’s G-rated and children-friendly content contains LGBTQ themes, storylines, and characters. Go to ConcernedWomen.org/Allie to submit your comment to the FCC to reassess the rating system! Episodes You May Like: Ep 1058 | Ex-Witch Reveals LA’s Dark World of Sex Cults and Blood Offerings | Guest: Jac Marino Chen https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1058-ex-witch-reveals-las-dark-world-of-sex-cults/id1359249098?i=1000666820850 Ep 830 | Southern Baptist Debate: Female Pastors? | Guest: Pastor Tom Ascol https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-830-southern-baptist-debate-female-pastors-guest/id1359249098?i=1000618662036 --- ► Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": https://alliebethstuckey.com/book ► Subscribe to the podcast: iTunes: https://apple.co/2UVssnP Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2FwkXxj ► Connect with Allie on Social Media: https://twitter.com/conservmillen https://www.instagram.com/alliebstuckey/ https://facebook.com/allieBlazeTV/ ► "Relatable" merchandise — use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Etsy has announced that they are no longer going to allow the sale of spellcasting and witchcraft on their site. Is that really true? And where did this decision come from? Also, there's been a backlash against the Southern Baptist Convention and their stance against women preaching and being pastors. But the arguments being put forth by other pastors, they just aren't good. We've got all of that plus a voicemail with a very juicy question, interesting question,

at the end of today's episode. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Allie at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code Alley. Hey, y'all. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday.

Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend that you've had a wonderful day so far. God's eternal plan of redemption. It is 100% going off without a hitch, completely and totally. Like there is nothing that has happened that God's like, wow, that was a detour that I did not see.

No matter what's going on in geopolitics, no matter what's going on, in our country no matter what's going on in your life, whether it's your own personal trial or you're looking at all of the chaos going on in the news or on social media. God's not surprised by any of it. He's not taken it back. He's not wondering what the heck happened. How did this go on? How am I going to come in there and clean up the mess? Oh my goodness, you got yourself into this trouble. Now you got to get yourself out. That's not how it works. God is completely sovereign. He's not limited by time and space. He's not checking his timeline wondering what's going on.

He's not catching up on the latest headlines or what's going viral. And the good thing about God and his work that he is constantly doing is that it typically doesn't make the headlines. It's typically not what is popular on social media. He is working through the mostly unseen and unsung acts of obedience by his children, not just here, but everywhere in the world. I mean, acts of faithfulness and courage for the faith, for the gospel that we will never ever know about.

That is how God accomplishes his work. it advances his kingdom. And we can rest assured that that is going off without a hitch. There are no roadblocks, no obstacles whatsoever. God is seeking and saving the lost. And he will accomplish his purpose. His word does not return void. And Romans 828 through 30 is so triumphant for all of us that he is working all things,

all means all, together for the good of those who love him and are called according to his purpose. and even those really difficult things that you're going through, that your child is going through, that you're like, I never would have picked that for myself. I certainly wouldn't pick my child to endure that. Somehow, that is in the life of the believer creating a far greater glory for us that's going to outweigh all the trouble that we experience here in this life. It's a mystery exactly how that works, but we know it does. And at the very least, it builds anticipation for heaven.

This world is not our home. We are exiles. And one day there will be no more sorrow, no more status, no more war. no more treaties, no more politics, none of that. Jesus will rule in perfect peace forever and ever. Yes, and amen. I like to start out the week on Mondays with that reminder, not just for you, but also for myself. And I've heard from so many of you that that line, God's eternal plan of redemption, is going off without a hitch, has brought a lot of peace to you. And it's just an echoing of God's truth that he gives us in his word. Read Psalm 37 today, if you haven't lately. All right. If you have not

checked out my big interview with Vice President J.D. Vance, then you should go do that. Obviously, a lot is happening in the geopolitical world. And my little old podcast relatable had the honor of sitting down with a VP talking to him about faith, his book, and also just the state of our country, the state of the world. And so it really was an honor to get to do that. Go back, watch it on YouTube. Listen, if you have not done that already. Also, Christian women, you want to be encouraged, you're feeling anxious, you're feeling alone, you're feeling like you need to be fired up, encouraged and equipped. Come to share the arrows. Share the arrows is brought to you this year by Adele Natural Cosmetics. And this is our third year, October 10th, Dallas, Texas.

Shane and Shane will be leading our worship this year. We'll have a Lisa Childers, Rosaria Butterfield, Kosti Hen, our first Relatorbrose speaker. We've got Grace Anna Castleberry, Audrey Brogey, Natasha Crane. It is going to be so good. Y'all last year, we had 7,000 women from all across the world. And this year, who knows how many will have? There will be thousands of you there. Great way to make like-minded friends. Just to be encouraged. It's a no-fluff gospel center to worship-filled conference. Share the aeros.com. All right, let's get into everything that we are talking about today. We're talking about Etsy and Witchcraft. Now, those two things don't seem like they would go together. What the heck does Etsy, what started as this, you know, a place that you could go by,

crafts and handmade items and some vintage goods. What does that have to do with witches and people casting spells and others? You might remember several months ago after Charlie Kirk was assassinated, there was a story of circulating. Actually, it circulated right before he died that someone had paid a witch on Etsy to cast a spell on Charlie Kirk. And this was apparently very disturbing, understandably, and destabilizing for Charlie and Erica and their family because Christians know that demonic activity is real

and that witchcraft is real because Satan is real. And he works through these means that might just seem silly and superstitious, but actually are vectors and vessels of his workings and of his power. Now, before we start, I just want to comfort you. And we'll get into this a little bit, a little bit more. This witchcraft doesn't have any dominion over the Christian. And we are end dwelt by the Holy Spirit. He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world.

Romans 8, we are more than conquers through him who loved us. That does not mean that we should be flipping about it or that it doesn't have any power. Ephesians 2 described Satan as the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is at work and the sons of disobedience among whom we all once walked. So the working of Satan's power is all around us at all times and obviously can manifest itself. in different ways in the world that affects us and, you know, we still deal with sin. However, witchcraft and spells, I believe, biblically have no power over us because we are under the dominion and the protection of Christ. However, because of its evil and because of the effect that it has on culture, the effect that it has on societies, we really have to

care when it's becoming popularized, when it's becoming normalized, when it's becoming commercialized when billions and billions of dollars are being made by people casting spells on others through a seemingly innocuous site like Etsy, we've got a problem. Like we've got a spiritual sickness in our culture and the gospel is the answer. So let's get into it. Let's look at what Etsy is doing. And whether or not they're still doing this because there was a recent story in vice that Etsy actually stopped selling witchcraft. Why? So Etsy's a $6 billion art and crafts online retailer, has a history of showcasing sellers who have offered to pay spellwork such as love spells, curses, protection rituals, money manifestations, and clairvoyant readings.

So like psychic readings. And we talked about this several years ago. It might have been in 2021. The rise of witch talk and these TikTok influencers who claim to be witches and claim to have some access to special power show. showing you how to manifest things in your life. Now, if you're wondering, wow, this just sounds a lot like self-help talk, new age manifestation. Yes, those things are very intertwined. Not to say that all self-improvement content is witchcraft, but the through line there really is the belief in the power of the self and that the self has this ability and has this authority to have control over the future, control over other people, control over your fate by channeling some supernatural

power that is not only out in the universe, but also exists deep down inside us. We talked a lot about this in my first book, you're not enough and that's okay. According to Vice, earlier this year, the site began pulling supernatural content such as spell vendors, despite having a policy in place since 2015 that bans these kinds of listings. Okay, so they've technically banned them, but they didn't really enforce that because for years and years and years, we've had these witches be able to make money by casting spells and other people or at least selling their spells. Now Etsy's policy says metaphysical services may not be sold on Etsy.

Examples of prohibited metaphysical services include rakey and distance healing, spell casting including attunement binding activation in similar services, prayers, rituals, items that advertise a metaphysical outcome. attracting wealth, love, gambling, luck, more business, employment opportunities, or assistance with legal or relationship situations. And I am sure that there are some legal reasons for this. But when you're selling intangible things and you're kind of commercializing these spiritual abstract practices, it's obviously rife for, rife with the potential for fraud and all different kinds of things. And can also be very damaging if people don't feel like

They got their money's worth. So what actually is, though, being sold on Etsy? What are the spells and why are people buying these spells? What the heck does this look like? We'll get into that in a second. Let me pause. Tell you about our first sponsor for the day. It's fellowship home loans.

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then you will get this much in return. It has nothing to do with Christianity and much more to do with witchcraft, but it's really evil when people pretend that it's Christian. Here's what it looks like on Etsy, millionaire spell, millionaire dollar spell, wealth spell, abundance spell, same day casting. Okay, so you can pay your $14.70. And this spellcaster will cast the spell for you to become a millionaire that day. Fast, efficient and great communication will continue to manifest.

So if you don't see that million dollars today, don't worry one day you will. And remember that $14.70 that you paid, this worked wonders for me. One review says money came in out of nowhere. I will continue to use. I am sure that that is perfectly legitimate. Next one, avoidant to obsessed love spell because all great relationships start with forcing someone via demonic magic to like you and to not hate you. They're going from avoiding you completely. They see you in the hallway and they're like sick. I'm walking away from this person to just obsessed with this love spell. Okay. 12 dollars and five cents.

avoidant connections, the description says, speak in quiet currents, distance, hesitation, mixed signals, I'm confused about this, emotions that pull close and then drift away. The spell works by tuning into that hidden current, the place where desire sits behind fear and longing hides beneath silence. There are some negative reviews on this one, okay? I don't know. There could have been some positive reviews too. Some negative reviews.

not only did this spell not work. He actually got with someone else. No way. No way. You're lying. I thought for sure. And then the next one, he didn't come back, sad. And it actually, you know, like, you make fun of this stuff because it's so ridiculous

that anyone would put their faith or hope, but it actually is very sad. When you think about the desperation that someone has to have and just the longing, the unrequited love that someone has to feel, the purposelessness, the lossness that someone is embroiled in to believe this kind of advertisement and then to pay money for it. And maybe they even paid, you know,

for multiple products. Obviously only to deal with the heartbreak that they could have already tried healing from in the first place. It is very, very sad. And I think all the way from the beginning because, you know, we see in, we see in the, Old Testament, when God is giving his rules and regulations and laws to Israel, when he's like,

don't mess with this stuff. Obviously, we have always had basically since the beginning of time, just a desire for control. Like, how can we take this into our own hands? How can we channel the supernatural? I don't want to have to pray to God and submit to his will. I want my will to be done. I want to channel my power to be able to make this happen. It really is just another manifestation of exchanging the God of Scripture for the God of self. Okay, so here's another one. Again, very scary things going on in the heart here. Curse your enemy's hex spell.

Okay. Photo proof, this advertisement says. Now, photo proof of what? That's what I want to know. Fast result. Same day casting. Let's see which hex your ex. Okay.

Spellwork is something I handle with caution and structure, especially in situations where emotional harm, betrayal or imbalance has been left resolved. Okay. So one person, a positive review actually says works amazingly, maybe a little too well. Uh-oh, hope he's okay. But nothing wrong with that. 10 out of 10 recommend. Wow. How different is this from Jesus who says, you've heard it said, hate your enemies. I say love your enemies and pray for them. Okay. So this is very popular. Those are just a few examples that I gave you of these advertisements and people actually apparently purchasing them. But people are really not happy about the ban, the enforcement of the band that

Etsy has now put in place. A lot of these Etsy spellcasters, a lot of the people who have bought their spells are very angry. For example, there's a TikToker. Her name is Carol Joy. she expressed absolute shock at being unable to view her favorite spell vendors page, that one. So a couple of months ago, someone asked me who my Etsy witch is, and I'm a real one. So, of course, I went to go get her link. And when I went on Etsy, her shop was closed. I'm panicking because that Etsy witch helped me get tickets to Ariana Grande's Eternal Sunshine Tour.

We need her. I actually just saw that she responded a day later saying that Etsy is suspending all spellcasting sellers on their platform. What do you mean? Okay. So this is just one of several people who expressed this. I also saw if you type in on X, for example, like Etsy Witch, you'll see all kinds of people going back and forth saying, like, who's the Etsy Witch that you use?

Who cast that spell to help you to do that? This apparently is something that happens within social networks. Beatrix, who ran Celestial Craft Spells on Etsy, said this to this. the New York Post on Etsy, witches had a place where we could complete our work without discrimination. Suddenly and quietly, they've removed us with no real explanations, whether it's an immediate ban, or slowly taking down our listings. It feels like persecution and like we are regressing back to the Salem witch trials. Really? Because you can no longer sell your fake spells on Etsy. You could do it through another way if you wanted to. And you know, I say fake spells,

and I probably shouldn't say that because I do think in many cases, like I said, there's real demonic power at work. For example, that TikToker who says, this spellcaster helped me get Ariana Grande tickets, that might actually, it could actually be true because Satan is a master at giving us a little bit of what we want. Like, he will, you know, allow us to be happy as long as it steals our ultimate joy. He will give us what we want now as long as we don't seek something higher in purpose and fulfillment in Christ.

And so I actually don't put it past Satan to use this means to get people to have faith in things like witchcraft, even if it gives you something that you want temporarily as long as he can win the long-term war for your soul. Some spell vendors are still on the platform, apparently a lot of sellers operate in this gray area by wording listings carefully. They'll say for entertainment only or they're selling a candle with a ritual description

or framing it as custom art digital files. So they're basically just lying. What I think is probably happening here is that even though Etsy has had this rule since 2015, after they had such bad PR with Charlie Kirk getting assassinated and that story coming out right before he was murdered about this person casting a spell via Etsy, they were like, it's not worth it. I don't think that the people at Etsy who are very anti-pro-life and who are very pro-trans and pro-abortion, I don't think they have moral qualms with witchcraft. I think they don't want to be on the hook for the potential of fraud. They don't

want to deal with the customer service issues of people not getting the outcome that they want. They don't want to deal with another negative PR campaign. I bet they got a lot of back. for allowing someone to buy that kind of service and try to curse Charlie Kirk. So they're like, it's just, it's just not worth it. And so that's what I think is probably happening here. There are other sites that sell spells, witchly, Fiverr sells spells, spellwork. There's one on Fiverr. This person says, I will do black magic spell removal, bad spirits curse, witchcraft

on a monthly basis. You've got all kinds of services that people will sell online, tarot card reading and things like that. Now, why is this so successful? Like, we used to, you know, drive by those psychics in a strip mall, and I would always just think it's really sad. Like, there's just really sad looking. It just, there's nothing ever appealing to me about that,

maybe because I always understood that there is a real battle between good and evil. Light and darkness really exists. I was aware of spiritual warfare. But even beyond that, it just gave me the ick to look at these psychics. And it made me sad to think of the desperation that someone would feel to try to go to a medium or go to this random person who you have been convinced as endowed with a good kind of power that you want to employ.

I just never wanted to mess with something like that. But it's extremely popular among Gen Z, probably because of TikTok, maybe because of Etsy, But it's kind of a chicken or the egg thing. Why did Gen Z become so interested in this supernatural world? We'll get to that in just a second. Let me tell you about concerned women for America. They have been around for decades fighting for the things that we as moms really care about. Sanctity of life, family-centered policy.

Right now, they are urging the Federal Communications Commission to address an outdated rating system that is operated without meaningful input from parents on places like Netflix. They found that about 41% of Netflix's G-rated, so-called child-friendly movies and shows contain LGBTQ themes. And so CWA just wants transparency. And they want the FCC to push for transparency. So parents can make the best decisions possible for the content that their kids are watching. And the initial comment deadline for this petition closed on May 22nd, but a response period

has now open until a deadline of June 22nd. So if you want to add your name to this, if you want to make your voice heard when it comes to rating transparency, go to concernedwomen.org slash alley. Have your voice heard, concernedwomen.org slash alley. So if you look through witch talk

and witches of Instagram, it's clear that many young women are still being led astray by influencers glamorizing witchcraft. This is a woman who shared her testimony of supporting Etsy. witches, she purchased two spells and said that the outcomes were pretty astonishing, Sotu. I paid two Etsy witches to cast spells for me within the past two months, and this is how it went.

Within eight days, I received word that I was inheriting money, and it was unexpected. It wasn't an astronomical amount, but it was enough for me to pay off a credit card and put the rest in savings for a delicious rainy day. Literally two weeks later, I received three emails, three emails offering me partnerships and approval of proposals. First two emails were approved proposals that I sent out a month ago that I thought they ghosted. I have two of those meetings set up next week.

Okay, a couple of things. She doesn't come across as genuine. She comes across like she's acting. So I actually don't really believe her so-called testimony anyway. But again, even if it is true, that is just proof that, say, and we'll give you a little bit of what you want. I think he's happy to give us some money because we read that the root or the love of money

is the root of all kinds of evil. A lot of people, even people who profess to be Christians, assume that all prosperity is a blessing, that all success and all monetary gain is a sign of God's blessing for you. That is not necessarily true. There are a lot of rich, evil people in the world that God does not approve of.

You know, I've seen artists, before or even, you know, only fans people. I talked about this on social media saying, you know, if God didn't approve of what I was doing, he wouldn't give me so much success. He wouldn't allow me to make so much money. That is absolutely not true. All kind of things can crowd out our affections and rule our hearts. And that includes money. I would say especially money. And there is no correlation whatsoever between that and God's approval of you. There's no biblical foundation for that whatsoever. Prosperity can be a blessing, but it has to be stewarded for his glory, not used for our own selfish ambition and sin.

There was a survey by the Springtide Research Institute that found that their survey was of 13 to 25 year olds. And they found that 51% of respondents were participating in a tarot card reading and fortune telling 13 years old. Within that percentage, 17% were practicing daily, 25% weekly, 27% monthly, and 31% less than once a month. The survey found that divination practices were even common among young people who identified specifically as Russian or Greek Orthodox, not surprising at all.

You can be mad at me for this, but there is a lot of voodoo, a lot of superstition within those traditions because a lot of people, not everyone, but a lot of people who identify as those have inherited those beliefs and really have no true, authentic faith to speak of, And there is also something like within the aesthetic, I think, of those traditions that seems to dovetail for some people with witchcraft. And that is also why Roman Catholics in Mexico and South America also practice witchcraft in the name of Catholicism. There is a lot of a connection and overlap there in the,

in those countries. Also, Mormons. That was a big group, apparently, according to this research institute that also practiced witchcraft and people who identified as Jewish. But Russian or Greek Orthodox the most, then Mormons, then Jewish people also practice these divination practices. And it's like, okay, Jewish people, you were the first person to get the commandment from God. Do not do this. This is bad news. Witchcraft is a practice, not necessarily. a religion, so it's not exclusively practiced by pagans and wikins. However, it is a sin, no matter who practices it. Many mistakenly believe that you can be a professing Christian and practice witchcraft. I actually remember when I had my book club going several years ago

during COVID, there was a woman who seemed really nice and she left a comment about, you know, one of the books that we were reading and saying, I'm a witch and a Christian, you can totally be those at the same time. I actually apply my Christianity to my witchcraft. No, no, no. That is not the case. I've heard people say, they're Scientologists and they're also Christians, that you can be a Scientologist and believe in worship in Jesus Christ.

No, no, no, no. What fellowship does light have with darkness? None. One respondent to this particular survey by this Research Institute said, there is such little ownership over a religious belief system that you're just told all the right answers to. These other spiritual ways have a more personal connection, these personal aha moments.

This person also considers themselves to be. Roman Catholic. Again, that is not something that is very surprising to me. Now, none of the wonderful Catholics I know would ever support practicing something like this. But in a lot of these traditions, there are a lot of people who are actually just secular and actually just superstitious and still identify loosely with being Catholic or being Orthodox or being Mormon. I think that's part of the thing there. There's a Vogue article that was titled, I know a good Etsy Witch, why Gen Z is turning to witchcraft, a spiritual coach named Zeta Weber. Explain the popularity of social media witchcraft like this.

People are craving clarity. That is spot on. That is absolutely true and actually extremely insightful and profound because people are craving clarity. That's why we talk all the time, how pastors need to be as clear as possible, what a gift the word of God is because people, and I think Jinzi especially, they are craving clarity. Like, tell me what is true. That doesn't mean Ginzi or anyone is ever going to like the truth or that they're always

going to like the truth. but I do think people just want to know what is really going on. I don't trust the media. I can't trust my professor. I don't trust what is going on on social media. Everything is filtered. Everything is PR-ified. Tell me what is actually true. And people believe that they need to access something that they cannot see, something underneath the surface to really give them that clear insight. And so I get it. I think that's a desire that all of us have. But we also have the desire as we read about in the garden with Adam and Eve and the serpent to be like God. Do this and you will be like God. You'll know the things that God knows. You'll have the power that he knows. You will have the

knowledge of the difference between good and evil that has always been a temptation there. And so yes, I do believe people want clarity, but they want divine like power and knowledge too. It goes all the way back to the garden. The intention to seek an alternative point of view has always existed. We all grew up knowing the eccentric aunt who went to the psychics. Thankfully, I did not thank you, ants, for not being that way. But what's changed is the level of uncertainty people are facing, particularly since COVID, but also economically. It's pushed people to explore guidance that feels deeper and more intuitive. They want to feel connected to something that can help them make sense of what they're experiencing. I think that's true. Like,

she's not writing from a Christian perspective, but I think that's true. This reminds me of Ecclesiastes see is 311. God has made everything beautiful in its time, and he has also put eternity into man's heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end, and yet we want to. And so many people, instead of reading the Word of God, which gives us the best roadmap for that, which gives us the best understanding of who God is and where everything comes from, and why we're here, people want something else. And I think one of the reasons why people will turn to psychics or to witchcraft rather than the word of God, rather than to Christianity, which offers true insight and wisdom and peace and understanding is because we have to die to self in

Christianity. And a witch tells you, or a psychic tells you, do what you want to do. I'm here for you. I'm here to manifest your dream. I'm not here to tell you that your desires are wrong. I'm not here to tell you to repent from your sin. In fact, everything that you feel is just an indication of what you really want, and I'm here to give you what you want. Who else tells us that throughout Scripture in our lives? It's Satan. And so Christianity, to a lot of people, they think that it's a bigger burden, that I have to, you know, I have to live a certain way.

I have to do all these things. I don't want to do that. I don't want to give that up. But really, it's the sin that's the burden. And you don't realize that. It's your constant, distraught desire to want to be your own God that's really burdening you. Jesus' burden is light. being a slave to sin is actually what's really hard.

The choice to participate in witchcraft is an act of rebellion against and rejection of God. So it's not possible to be both at the same time. It's not possible to weave your witchcraft in to any semblance of your Christian faith. Superstition has no place in the kingdom of God. It has no place in the heart and the mind of the Christian. And this is why I'm also so adamant about things that sound Christian, but are really. more new age and witchy, like, oh, I looked at, I found this thing outside and I knew that it was God telling me this one thing because that doesn't foster peace and clarity. It fosters

anxiety because you are putting yourself in the driver's seat of determining what God's specific will is in that situation. That's God's job. It's God's job. And he has given us his word and his Holy Spirit to guide us and we have to do the best that we possibly infallibly can without relying on superstition and ourselves to try to figure that out. So what does the Bible say about magic and witchcraft? It could not be more clear because God loves us so much and he wants what's best for us. He says, don't mess with this at all. We'll get into that in a second.

Let me pause. Let me tell you about our next sponsor. It's Hillsdale College. When's the last time that you read through the biblical story of David? Maybe it was recent or maybe you saw the movie. recently about David. I saw it. My family saw it. It was really great. But there are things in that story that you may not know, that you may not have noticed. Maybe you never learned in church. Maybe you never saw it in depictions of this story. That this is really a story, yes, about one of the precursors

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TLC when I was younger, these podcasts that claim to be able to talk to the dead. Don't mess with those. It's not that they're always wrong. They may be sometimes right. That's the scary part of things because it is a satanic power. Don't do it. God doesn't say, oh, there's no power in these things. He says it's bad for you.

It makes you unclean, he says to his people, Israel. Don't seek them out. Don't try to conjure up dreams of the dead. I see that a lot by Christians. Like they're wanting to be visited by the dead in their dreams. And like I understand the feeling of loss and wanting that connection and wanting messages from the other side because again, you think it's going to give you insight or it's going to give you comfort.

And I believe this verse is telling us, don't seek that out. And yes, this is Old Testament law. We're not under all the Old Testament laws as Christians today. But we have to look at the principles in each law and ask our. ourselves, is this still true today? Is the reasoning that he gives still true today? Deuteronomy 18, 10 through 12. There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering that was inextricably intertwined with those who practice these pagan practices of witchcraft. Anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets

omens or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations, the Lord, your God is driving them out before you. So this is sickening to God. He hates it because of channeling a power that is not good and that is not his. We also see in First Chronicles 1013 through 14. So Saul died for his breach of faith. He broke faith with the Lord and that he did not keep the command of the Lord and also consulted him medium seeking guidance. He did not seek guidance from the Lord, therefore the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David, the son of Jesse. That's how serious God is about this.

How dead serious God is about this. Don't seek guidance from anyone else except for me. We see in Malachi 3.5, then I will draw near to you for judgment. I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, against the adulterers, against those who swear falsely, against those who oppress the hired worker and his wages, the widow and the fatherless, against those who thrust aside the sojourner and do not fear me, says the Lord of host. I think it's very interesting the category there that those who practice witchcraft, those who are adulters having sex outside of marriage, liars, those who mistreat the hired worker,

don't pay him what he's owed. That is just as much, it seems, an abomination to the Lord. Those who oppress the widow, those who oppress the orphan, the vulnerable. without a father makes me think of the forced fatherlessness that we are pushing upon children today through the name in the name of love is love against those who thrust aside the sojourner and do not fear me says the lord of host those are evil in the side of the lord and it's not just the old testament we can go to the new testament one example galatians 519 through 21 now the works of the flesh are evident sexual immorality impurity sensuality idolatry sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions,

envisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Again, so interesting, all the things that he lumps together, sexual immorality, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalry, dissensions, divisions, envy. I just want you to take stock of the people that you follow. If any of the people that you follow, the podcasters that you listen to,

the authors that you read, if they are defined by those things, not the fruit of the spirit, enmity, strife, jealousy, whether or not it's true sorcery or necromancy calling upon the dead in dreams, don't follow them. They're leading you down a bad path,

an evil demonic path. And God is, really clear that people who do these things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Scripture also shows us examples of believers repenting of witchcraft publicly as a testimony of the power of the gospel. Acts 19, 18, through 20. Also, many of those who are now believers came confessing and divulging their practices. And a number of those who had practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted the value of them and found it came to 50,000 pieces of silver. So the word of the,

the Lord continued to increase and prevail mightily. And so people who came to the Lord, they repented. They had to give those things up before following Christ or because they were following Christ. So witchcraft, Christianity, they can't go together. Christians are protected from the power of witchcraft. We are not under the authority of Satan. So we don't need to be paranoid there, but we do need to be. really clear. And we need to make sure that the things that we are consuming, whether it's called

new age, whether it's called self-love, whether it's called self-help, whether it's called manifesting, that we're not playing around with that. It's really serious to the God who loves us and the God who created us. If you are a parent, allowing your kids to be entertained by Oweeja board or entertained by tarot cards, it's not innocent. And I think we're seeing more and more of this in literature, teen literature, teen entertainment. We're seeing it all across social media. And it is a danger. It is a danger to the heart and to the soul. It's certainly something that destroys societies. If you look at the nations that are filled with voodoo and witchcraft, like Haiti, like many countries in Africa, you see their fate. Those things I believe are very connected. I believe that

Haiti's obsession with witchcraft and voodoo, I'm not saying that it is, is like all of the despair that they're going through is necessarily a judgment from God because of that. Like I don't think that the children who are suffering and all of that, that they are trying to, that they're bearing the consequences of the adults. But they are the natural consequences to be in a pagan nation that is following these evil practices. It just leads to disorder.

It leads to chaos. It leads to hopelessness. It leads to immorality and violence always every time. And God wants something better for us. if you want to know what's really going on, if you want real insight, if you want real wisdom, go to the Word of God because he has given us those things. In the book of James, we are promised that if you ask wisdom of God, he's faithful. He's going to give it to you, okay?

And maybe there are some things we just don't need to know. Have we considered that? Like maybe there are just some things that we are really trying to know, just some things that we're really trying to control that we don't need to try to know or control because if we knew those things, if we just, tried to control those things, it would be really bad. It would give us anxiety. The outcome actually wouldn't be good. We don't always know what God is up to. I remember reading this analogy by Tim Keller and reason for God that like if a child can't understand, you know, your child, you try to give

your child medicine, maybe it's antibiotics or something that they need. They fight you. They don't want to do it. Or you got to take a splinter out out of their finger and they're freaking out. They're running away. They can't even be reasoned with when you're telling them, hey, this is good for you. It's going to hurt for a second, but I promise you want this splinter taken out of your foot. You really can't reason with them at a certain age when they're, say, two or three years old. You just got to hold them down and take the splinter out. And sometimes I think that it's like that with God and us. And if there is that much of a difference in understanding between two finite beings,

an adult and a child, and we know we can't explain and give them all the knowledge of what's going on because it wouldn't help anyway. Like I think the same thing is true between an infinite God and us. We have a much bigger understanding between God and us. And I think he knows that if we knew and could control all the things that we think we want to know and control, it actually wouldn't help. It would just make things worse. And we can't always see the purpose and the reason behind what he's doing.

And I think necromancy and witchcraft is a desire to try to know that, but we just have to trust the Lord and his sovereignty, that it's his eternal plan that's going off without a hitch. And it's not our burden to carry. And witchcraft makes us carry a burden that was never ours. And actually ends up crushing us in the end. All right, we've got a couple more things on the docket. Let me go ahead and pause and tell you about our next sponsor.

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Patriotmobile.com slash Alley, patriot mobile.com slash alley. All right, I wanted to quickly address the backlash to the SBC voting in favor of a constitutional amendment, which would ban female pastors from the denomination. Not only the role of the pastor, but also really the function of the pastor, which is exercising biblical authority over by teaching scripture in the congregation in the local church. This was already a part of the Baptist faith and message. This is making it a constitutional amendment put forth by Dr. Al Moeller, president of Southern Baptist Seminary.

And it has to be voted on again next year in Indianapolis for it to actually pass. But I'm guessing it will. It passed with the 75% vote. But then you had a lot of people, a lot of people who are Christians pushing back against this. Here is a pastor who, who says, look, you know, in response to this, yes, women can be pastors. His position is.

And he claims it's the Bible that gives him the support of that position set for. For the record, I do believe that women can be pastors. And the reason I believe that is because scripture shows me that. I study the scriptures and I actually see that Apollos, who Paul compares himself to later, was actually taught by a woman. Read Acts 18. In Acts 21, four unmarried women prophesy in church. And Colossians, Nemoha was the pastor of the church and it met in her house. Chloe, same thing in 1st Corinthians 1. Romans 16, 1 and 2. Phoebe is a deacon. First Corinthians 11. Women prayed and prophesied in the church. Okay, not a single one of these examples is of a female pastor.

And I see this a lot. Oh, this woman taught this person or this woman, corrected this person's theology or this woman shared her testimony or this woman was told by Jesus to go share what he had done for. I do believe that women are called to preach the gospel. I do believe that women can correct someone's theology. I think women can talk about theology. I think women can love the Bible and teach Bible studies. I think women can have podcasts talking about, you know, biblical ideas. But none of the examples that were given were of a woman leading a church as a pastor. Even the passage about women prophesying or the Holy Spirit coming upon men and women to prophesy

has nothing to do with women being pastors. Now, in another part of this sermon, he talks about the verses that command women to be silent in churches or to not preach in churches. and he says that those don't really apply to today. Here's the next clip. They take two verses out of context, 1 Timothy 2, 11 and 12, and 1st Corinthians 14. Here's the problem I have with that, just so you know. In 1st Timothy 2, you have to understand, they're worshipping a goddess named Artemis,

who is the goddess of fertility. What happened, if you continue and you go to read Acts 19, they actually declare in Ephesus, great is Artemis of Ephesus. What was happening? Why did Paul give that instruction to Timothy? because they were worshiping a goddess who said that women were greater than men and they were disrupting the church service and trying to exercise authority over the one preaching.

Now, 1 Corinthians 14 says women should be silent in the church. What's he talking about? Same thing. Women were interrupting and trying to take over the service with empty philosophy. How do I know that? Paul just said in 1st Corinthians 11 that women prophesied, preached in the church. Last time I checked, scripture doesn't contradict itself. Okay, there's so many things to respond to in that one clip. I do just want to say what he says

at the end that in 1 Corinthians 11 we read that women are preaching. I read 1st Corinthians 11 and I don't see that. I mean, what I do see for example, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head since it is the same as if her head were shaven for if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. And then it goes on and on. And we can have another conversation about head coverings. I don't see anything in 1st Corinthians 11 about a woman preaching in a local church. Now, let's look at 1 Corinthians 14.

So in 1 Corinthians 14, it says, as in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. So that's the verse he's referring to. But they are not, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission as the law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home, for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.

Okay. So when we're looking at a verse, we have to say, what follows it? What follows the command? What is the why that is being given? Because there are some dictates in scripture that do seem to be culturally exclusive based on the reasoning given.

but Paul does not say here in this one particular church, this strange thing is happening. It says, as in all the churches of the saints, every single church, no matter the culture, no matter the pagan worship around it, not just the church in Corinth. He says, as in all the churches of the saints,

the women should keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission. Why? Because they are doing something weird with their theology in this pagan god and Artemis. No, as the law also says, if there is anything that they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home,

for it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. There's nothing here about disruptions. There's nothing here about pagan worship. There's nothing here that says, because they are acting in this way, they must not speak. He goes all the way back to the law. He says, this is universally true in Christendom that women should keep silent in the churches. And then also he references 1 Timothy, 1st, Timothy 2 through 11. Paul writes, let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not

permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet. Now, what this pastor could have done is he could have highlighted that Paul is saying, I do not permit a woman to teach. I've heard some egalitarians try to make that argument, that that caveat somehow, you know, allows for women preaching within, within the church. But again, this passage has nothing to do with interruptions or disruptions or anything culturally going on at the time. How do I know that because of the verses that follow? For Adam was formed first then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. So there's a lot there that we could unpack. But the point is that Paul goes all the way back to creation. If it was cultural, he wouldn't go back to creation. He's going back to something that is true and that is always true that Adam was formed first then Eith. So if it was something specific to that time and space, then he wouldn't have given the creational reasoning.

That is what we see actually in every example. Even when Jesus goes all the way back to creation, he's saying this is true. This is always going to be true because it's been true from the beginning. So I'm sorry, but people who make this kind of argument, you are basing. on your congregation not reading the passage for themselves. That's it. It's not even, I saw someone in these comments say, oh, that was so textual. That was so scholarly. It's not at all. It's banking on you not reading scripture for yourself. Okay. So that's what's what's going on here. And you can think that that is somehow oppressive or that is anti-woman. The truth is that women are just as

made in the language of God as men, is that we have been given gifts, we have been given talents, we have been given a voice, we have been given the opportunity to be a part of the body of Christ to minister to the saints. There are many women that Jesus recognized in his ministry, that are recognized in honor in the epistles, even in the Old Testament, the genealogy of Jesus includes these incredible and faithful women. The Bible is not an anti-weigh, woman text, but it is an anti-egalitarian text. It is an anti-men and women are the same text and are called to the same function and purpose. We are not. Men and women are not interchangeable. And because we're not interchangeable, because there is something innately

different about us and have been since creation, we're not called to the same things. We might be capable of some of the same things, but we are not called to the same things. I'm a communicator. I like to communicate. I love scripture. I am capable technically if I wanted to of delivering a sermon, but I am not called to do that because I'm a woman. Because I'm called to different things.

I don't see that as stealing something for me because it was never mine. God is the one who gives rights and God didn't make a mistake when he made me a woman. And he has chosen to allow me to channel my communicative skills in other ways. And it's not from leading a church. It's how I feel about Ephesians 5 that wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord. Husbands love your wives. Husbands have the much harder calling in that. Husbands have a much higher and harder role.

Pastors, men have a much harder, higher, and more sacrificial role in being the shepherd over a flock that I think God that I'm never going to have to have. So I don't really understand the desire as a Christian for women to vie for the same. roles and responsibilities that men have instead of just being grateful for the calling that he has placed on our lives, which is different, no less valuable, but different. So read the Bible for yourselves. That's what I want to say. Read the Bible for yourselves and don't allow a pastor like that to bank on you not reading the following verses. All right. Wanted to address that. Let me answer one voicemail. And I will tell you about our last sponsor first. And that is

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Save 10% on tuition when you use code alley. Freedomforschool.com code alley. All right. We really only have time for one voicemail today. And so I am going to play voicemail number two. Hi, Allie. My sister is a professing Christian and is about to get engaged to and marry a Mormon. I've spent many hours explaining to her why this is wrong and she seems to understand,

but she now just asks me to respect her decision. Should I attend the wedding? My thoughts so far are that I will attend, but not be a bridesmaid if she asks and not attend the bridal shower, as those to me are. celebrating her decision. Thank you. Well, thanks for your question. This is a top question because I know you want to be there for your sister and marriage is wonderful. And I know that you're happy, that she is happy. And I understand the distinction you're making. You feel like as an attendee, you're going there and supporting her, but you feel that as a bridesmaid going to the bridal shower

that you are celebrating the union and you don't want to celebrate the union. This is what I'm going to say, and this might be hard to hear. I would assume that your sister is not a believer. I would assume that your sister is not a believer marrying another non-Christian. And the reason I would say that is because someone who is indeweled by the Holy Spirit would have a very, very difficult time via the Holy Spirit convicting her in dating someone who does not believe Jesus is God. Now, having strong affections for someone being very attracted to someone can override all kinds of convictions.

And so I'm not trying to say the eternal destination of your sister. I am saying that it is very difficult for me to believe that she is walking with the Lord and has no conviction over marrying someone who has added to the gospel in his belief system when it comes to how to get to heaven and how to attain salvation. That should be something that breaks her heart. That should be something that the Holy Spirit is just nagging her about saying, do not do this. This is, this is not what I want. This is unequally yoked. And the fact that that apparently is not there right now means to me that there's, there's something wrong there.

There's something very wrong spiritually. So that is the first concern. The first concern is not the marriage. The first concern is that there is something deeply wrong on a spiritual level within your sister's heart and soul. I would address that first. That's, that's the first conversation I would be having. And then it is the Holy Spirit. it's job to continue to convict. You keep speaking the truth in love. You said that she's about to get engaged and then she's going to marry. You got time. You got time. And if the Holy Spirit is convicting you, then I would continue to speak the truth and love. Now, if it comes down to it and she has no conviction about this and she decides to marry this person, then I would assume that the Holy Spirit

and the conviction is just not there, then I don't think that it is a sin to attend the wedding of two non-Christians. The wedding itself between two non-Christians is not a sin. A man marrying a woman is not a sin. A man trying to marry a man is a sin. The marriage itself, the union itself, the attempt to call that a marriage is a sin. Any marriage between a man and a woman is not a sin. It obviously is a problem if you have a true believer marrying a non-believer unequally yoked, but I would assume that that's not what's happening here. Something much, much deeper than she's just attracted to this guy is going on in this case. And you can continue to be kind and you can continue to love her and you can continue to support her as an individual, as your sister,

as her sister speak the truth and love to her. Doesn't mean that you have to be rude or, or anything, um, in any sense. But you should continue to be really clear about this because it will probably be true that she will end up going his direction rather than the other way around. And that's going to be very difficult, not just as a sister, but also as a future aunt. And so do whatever you can to continue sharing the gospel with both of them and just praying, praying, praying for the conviction of the Holy Spirit. All right. That's all we got time for today.

We will be back here on Wednesday.