Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1379 | Her Husband Poisoned Her & Their Baby. Now Her Story Is Saving Lives | Catherine Herring

Starting point is 00:00:00 When Catherine Herring found out she was pregnant with her third child, her husband's reaction was strange and negative. Suddenly, he began behaving erratically, exhibiting an obsession with ensuring she was hydrated. After a near-death experience in the ER, Catherine hired a private investigator to look into her husband. What they found out changed their lives forever. Catherine's here with her jarring, but ultimately redemptive story on today's episode of Relatable. Catherine, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. I want to start with your story. You have been talking about the danger of the abortion pill.

Starting point is 00:00:48 What have you experienced that has inspired you to start talking about this? Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me. My story began on March 17, 2022, when my husband of 11 years brought me breakfast in bed. that was not part of our normal routine and it felt kind of weird. But he had been acting strangely in the weeks prior, actually asking for a separation when I caught him in a lie about his whereabouts. And so a week after he asked for a separation, I found out I was pregnant. And then fast forward just one more week and he was bringing me breakfast in bed.

Starting point is 00:01:34 Wow. Okay. And then just tell us what happened from there. Yeah. So on that morning, he brought me a plastic cup of water and a biscuit and said that he had noticed I wasn't drinking enough water. And for the sake of my pregnancy, he wanted me to stay hydrated. And then he added that he was not going to leave until I had finished the entire glass of water. So it was very strange, very strange just right from the beginning. I had been woken up by him. Everything was a little foggy. And we just sat and talked about our day. We had a six-year-old and a two-year-old at the time, talked about the plans for them. And as time progressed and I drank more of the water and ate more of the biscuit, he started urging me to drink faster and he ultimately was standing over me, urging me to chug the water.

Starting point is 00:02:40 And when he did that, that was the first time I actually looked down into the cup and I realized that the water was not clear. It was kind of creamy, almost milky. And I immediately asked, what is this? And he grabbed the cup from my hands, looked down into it himself and said, oh, weird. I must have grabbed a dirty cup. And then he left the house with the cup. So it was a pretty wild warning to say the least. Oh, my goodness.

Starting point is 00:03:13 And at what point did you realize, obviously you thought that the whole thing was weird. It sounds really weird, especially him getting more and more agitated. But at what point did you realize something's gone really wrong? Yeah. So it was about 30 minutes later. I started violently cramping and I suddenly and urgently needed to go to the bathroom. And I did not make it from my bed to the bathroom that was adjoined to my room. I ended up getting sick in my clothes and I hopped into the shower.

Starting point is 00:03:49 And the wild thing about domestic violence is your head and your heart are really playing against each other. So I knew things were weird. It felt off. But I still, my initial thoughts were maybe I had food poisoning. I started racking my brain. What did I have for dinner? And I got out of the shower, changed into fresh pajamas.

Starting point is 00:04:12 I got in my bed. And it happened a second time. And when I got sick the second time, I knew that this was not food poisoning, but something had been in that cup. And what made you realize that the second time? Yeah. It was just unlike anything I had ever experienced. I really started losing just all bodily control, just constant diarrhea, severe cramping.

Starting point is 00:04:44 And I immediately started wondering, you know, what could have been in that cup? Was he trying to harm me or was he trying to harm the baby? And I had seen just a few weeks before this happened an article about Google and the backlash that Google was facing with blocking abortion pill reversal ads. And in those frantic moments as I was trying to just absorb what was going on and try to gain some kind of control over the situation, I thought about that article. And I ended up Googling abortion pill reversals. And a pregnancy hotline number came up. And so I called the nurse on that hotline. And I said, this is going to be the craziest thing you've ever heard.

Starting point is 00:05:43 But I think my husband put something in my drink this morning. And she was very calm, so incredibly supportive. she immediately prayed over me, which was just such a blessing in that moment of chaos to really have some peace and calm and try to grasp what was going on. And she guided me through what an abortion pill reversal was, which is to add progesterone back into your system. And so I don't know if you know, but the way that chemical abortion. abortion pills work is by cutting hormone production. And so progesterone just simply adds the hormones back in. And so she frantically was trying to get me a prescription for progesterone, which I always find so ironic now. You don't have to have a prescription to obtain chemical abortion pills at this moment in

Starting point is 00:06:44 the United States of America. But you do need a prescription for progesterone to counteract the abortion pills to do the reversal. So as she was trying to obtain a prescription for progesterone, I started digging in my medicine cabinet. And I actually had been prescribed progesterone in a previous pregnancy and still had the pills in my medicine. And so I was able to take the necessary dosage within an hour of being poisoned. And that's why they think my daughter is alive today.

Starting point is 00:07:18 Wow. Okay, I want to back up a little bit before we continue on, you know, how you handled this situation. You said that the second time you got sick, you knew that it was different than you had ever had before. Every part of you basically was losing control. Still, it seems like the idea of being poisoned with the abortion pill would feel far-fetched. It would, you know, it's almost kind of strange that that that came into your head, that. you knew somewhere deep down that it was a possibility that your husband was trying to harm you or trying to harm the baby. And so I'm wondering if you feel like that was kind of like the Holy Spirit giving you wisdom, the wisdom that you needed in that moment to make the call that you needed to save your baby. Or was there anything else that had happened that your husband had said to you, his reaction when you first got pregnant, in addition to just the, you know, general disagreement and his bringing up of separation that had happened in the previous weeks that made you think that the abortion pill was a possibility.

Starting point is 00:08:28 Yeah, absolutely. I would say both. I have never felt the presence of God like I have felt these past few years and especially in those moments. I really felt kind of that, again, Mama Bear instinct, you're on high alert. you know this person is acting strangely. And so it just, you know, gave me a lot of pause. Like, why are we acting so strangely?

Starting point is 00:08:58 And I didn't have a lot of answers. In that moment, I had no idea what was in the cup. It could have been lighter fluid. I had no idea as the event was occurring. But the hotline nurse was actually really. helpful in that moment because even if it had not been an abortion pill poisoning progesterone would not have hurt me, it would not have hurt the baby. And so it was a really smart, smart recommendation on her end that if this was in fact our worst fears, that it would be

Starting point is 00:09:41 helpful. And if it was something completely different, that it wouldn't be. be harmful to the pregnancy. Okay, quick pause from that conversation to tell you about our first sponsor. It is WeHeart Nutrition. This is where I get every single one of my supplements. They've got probiotics. They've got the prenatals I take, omega-3s, magnesium, iron, all that good stuff. Typically, I struggle with anemia.

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Starting point is 00:11:01 on the market. I love WeHeart Nutrition. Use code Alley. You'll get 20% off your order when you use my code. Weheartnutrition.com code Alley. Okay, so after you took the progesterone, tell me what happened from there. Yeah, and actually, I realize I, I had not answered the second half of your question if there were additional kind of signs that something else was going on.

Starting point is 00:11:31 And when I found out I was pregnant a week after my now ex-husband asked for a separation, I actually told him the news in front of our marriage counselor. So he was actively telling me that he wanted to work on our marriage. He still loved me. I kept asking, you know, are you wanting a divorce? What does this look like? The world was spinning to say the least. And he kept assuring me, no, I'm just unhappy with myself.

Starting point is 00:12:08 I want to work on myself. Everything's fine. Everything's going to work out. But I had enough hesitation to know that I needed to have a witness. to this news. This was a lot to take in in the midst of a separation. And so when I told him I was pregnant, the news did not go over well at all. He kind of shut down. And interestingly, the marriage counselor suggested that we spend spring break together. So the very next day, spring break was starting and she said, I think with so much in flux with your family that maybe

Starting point is 00:12:58 you all should spend some time together. And so we did. And so that's where he was picking up these comments that I needed to stay hydrated, that he'd noticed I wasn't drinking enough on our trip. And so there were there were a few red flags leading up to this moment. I knew he was acting erratic. I had, you know, again, caught him in a lie about his whereabouts. I didn't know what that meant in the moment. I wasn't gaining a lot of information from him during marriage counseling. And then he did not receive the pregnancy news well. Okay. So all of that adding up in your mind in the moment in addition to, I believe God just giving you the insight that you needed, made you think of those Google ads or made you think of those ads and then you made the call

Starting point is 00:13:52 to the abortion pill reversal hotline. And so after you took the progesterone, what went on from there? Yeah. So actually the symptoms kept going. I kept getting sick throughout the day and then I started bleeding heavily. And I was still in touch with the hotline nurse. And she urged me to go to the emergency room once I started bleeding. And so I had a friend come over. One of the wild things looking back is not only was I poisoned, but then I was left alone to deal with these horrific symptoms with two very young children. And thankfully, a friend came over.

Starting point is 00:14:43 I did share what had happened and she found it very confusing and odd also. She was actually a nurse. And so, you know, I really, I believe God sent the right people at the right moment. She was able to guide me. I always share with domestic violence victims. I say, you know, the best advice I can give is to. surround yourself with sound-minded people because as you are encountering this abuse, it's very confusing and there's a lot of cognitive dissonance and brain fog.

Starting point is 00:15:27 And you just, you can't believe what your eyes are seeing. And so I'm very grateful for the people that were with me in these scary, scary moments. And ultimately, I ended up in the emergency. room and they asked for a urine sample at check-in and my urine sample was actually black in color. The nurses, I'll never forget that it was a male nurse and I walked out of the bathroom with this cup that was solid black liquid. And he said, what is that? I said, that's my urine sample.

Starting point is 00:16:11 And I could just see the sheer panic on everyone's face. They ran and got a doctor out of surgery to come evaluate the situation. And they ultimately believed I was going into kidney failure. And so they started an IV, started me on antibiotics. And then they also conducted an ultrasound. And that was the first time that I saw. my daughter's heartbeat. Wow. Oh my goodness. And how did they, how did they help you from there? I'm guessing there had to be more done than the addition of progesterone because it wasn't just your

Starting point is 00:16:54 baby that was being harmed. It was, it was you. So what did they do? And what did they find out to? I know I'm asking you a lot of questions, but how did they help you? What did they find out that he actually put in your water? Well, that's what's pretty scary about abortion pill. poisonings, you can't find out a lot of information. At the hospital, they cannot test for prescription drug poisonings. They can test for recreational drugs in your blood and urine. But at that point, we knew that we couldn't really prove anything. And so there was a lot of discussion of should we call the police from the emergency room? Should I go to the police station? Social workers came in. And And there was a lot of confusion.

Starting point is 00:17:46 No one knew what to do with this situation. And when did you officially find out what he had tried, what he tried to do to you and what he put in the water? It was a very long road. He ultimately attempted to poison me six more times over the course of 39 days. During that time, I was partnering with a private investigator and, again, a team of sound-minded people to help me prove what was being done. It took weeks for us to really discover what it was in these drinks. We knew that he was trying different substances, so he tried cranberry juice. who would try orange juice.

Starting point is 00:18:43 One of the attempted poisonings, you know, the little simply orange juice bottles that come from fast food restaurants. He gave one to me with the outer and inner seal broken and then I could see the powder through the clear plastic packaging. Were you saying, I'm trying to kind of picture what's going on here. you said domestic violence is just there's so many layers and so many complications you have kids and all of these things that you're trying to figure out and manage but after like after the initial poisoning did you say something to him did he he knew you went to the hospital he knew that you were in kidney failure did you all have a conversation about this or were you scared out of your wits and you didn't say anything yeah all great questions um i was scared out of my wits uh with

Starting point is 00:19:40 out of doubt and walking tiptoeing on eggshells. The private investigator was guiding me every step of the way on what to do and how to do it. And we decided together that it would be best for me to just pretend I was taking the cup. Again, he was not living at my house. So he was very in and out. He never stayed to watch me drink another drink. He would kind of hand it to me and run off. And so I would just take the cup and say thank you.

Starting point is 00:20:23 And then immediately get it to the private investigator. And we would take the liquids and send them off to a lab. The liquids are actually extremely hard to test. Blood and urine are easier. And now I know all these details of what to do in a poisoning, which is really wild. But, you know, I had no handbook for this situation. My now ex-husband was a very successful trial attorney. And we all knew that without hard evidence, it would be very hard for me to prove that this had happened.

Starting point is 00:21:07 So we actively work together to collect evidence. We ended up finding two sets of abortion pill packaging in my trash. And one of the poisoning attempts he did in front of two eyewitnesses. And then the seventh and final drink, we caught him making it on hidden camera that we had played. into my kitchen air vents. Okay, so I think I might have missed the detail that you were in a sense separated. He was not living there. And so he would give you the drink.

Starting point is 00:21:50 He would just kind of show up at your house to give you drinks. And he did not know that you knew what was going on. You were trying to, in conjunction with the private investigator, play it cool to collect as much evidence as possible. Is that right? That's correct. Yeah. Next sponsor is Hillsdale College. Hillsdale College is one of the few universities out there that you could send your child to

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Starting point is 00:23:56 private investigator and I said, I think he's going to try again and gave them the date. And these poisoning, the poisoning attempts happened in two kind of batches. So there were four right at the beginning straight in a row, which is also terrifying. If you've been in the emergency room going into kidney failure, the fact that he would try again in 24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours, it was very, very dangerous. And I'm just so grateful that I was on high alert. Even though we didn't know in those early moments what exactly it was,

Starting point is 00:24:39 I knew enough that it had made me deathly ill, and I never wanted to feel that way again. And so that batch, after that first set of four, there was a couple of weeks where there were not any poisoning attempts. And so that's when we were really trying to get everything to the laboratory to try to prove and discover exactly what was in the drinks. And then when my two friends came to my house and witnessed the poisoning attempt, that was kind of the second round. And he had let me know in advance that he would be coming to bring me breakfast in bed. And so that's when I really thought, I really feel like he's going to try it again. and sure enough he did. That is incredible that you were able to have the awareness and the self-control

Starting point is 00:25:46 to be able to go through with that and that you didn't immediately just say, I know exactly what you're doing and you're going to get caught. I wonder if your knowledge that you had gained from him being a trial lawyer kind of actually helped you because you knew the process, you knew the evidence that was needed to actually pin him on this. And I wonder if that's what helped you kind of like gain your composure and your self-control during this time. I just think most people after that first hospital stay would have showed up at his house and been like, I know what you did. And, you know, I mean, I can't believe that you were able to hold it in that reaction. But also the Lord helping

Starting point is 00:26:29 you, I'm sure. Absolutely. I mean, I have chills when you're talking about this because it really, was such an out-of-body experience. You had to control your reaction. And it was so terrifying because he was still to my face saying that he loved me, that he cared about me, that we were going to work this out where, you know, we were attending marriage counseling, trying to go with the flow. And it was such a balancing act. But absolutely, I, I, I, I, truly felt the presence of the Lord. I felt, I felt clarity of mind in the area of knowing he was being erratic. And that was the one just foundational rock that I was working with that I loved him. He was my husband of 11 years. He's the father of my children. But this did not feel safe.

Starting point is 00:27:36 And that's part of my advocacy work with other domestic violence victims. You know, it's so, this is all so dysregulating. And so to surround yourself with others that can keep you calm and keep you safe, first and foremost, we all were concerned the most about my safety. And so that's why I brought others around me. But I think in particular with abortion pill poisonings, it's nearly impossible to prove. And that's what's really scary as this crime trend continues to grow is I think the cases that are able to prove that this happened are actually few and far between. So you said it was 39 days after your initial hospital stay, six separate attempts that you were able to track with a private investigator.

Starting point is 00:28:44 What happened at the end of those 39 days? Yeah. So on day 40, can you imagine? It was a very long process. It was terrifying. But on day 40, I finally had enough. evidence in my hand to go make a statement to the Houston Police Department. I brought two of the drinks with me. I had the packaging. I had video surveillance of my now ex has been putting the packaging

Starting point is 00:29:22 into the trash can outside of our house. I had the surveillance video from the kitchen of him making the drink. And the Houston Police Department is actually the one that was able to get the liquid tested. And it came back positive. Wow. Okay. And then what went on from there? Yeah. So wildly, it took another month for him to be arrested. Again, you can imagine the fear. So the first poisoning was on March 17th and he was finally arrested at the end of May. All this time, I had to pretend that I didn't know this was going on. And he was arrested and then released on bond 24 hours later. Wow. You know, I just want to pause and say like there are a couple of things that there's there's one thing that you said that reminds me of a couple of things

Starting point is 00:30:37 in the bible when you said it had been 39 days after that first um after that first hospital stay and then on day 40 is when you were able to kind of gather all of the evidence i just think that there's biblical significance to the number 40 i think about it rained for 40 days and 40 nights when noah was in his was in his boat with his family and then of course the temptation of jesus as he was in the wilderness fasting for 40 days. And I don't, you know, I don't know if there's a parallel there, but I do think it's interesting that you were made to, like, suffer and go through a wilderness and wait and wait and wait on the Lord.

Starting point is 00:31:15 And then exactly on 40 days is when you were able to, like, bring together the culmination of that evidence. I just see in so many parts of your story, like the Lord gathering all of these different things from your past, from your community, your life that helped deliver. you in this moment and then use such a terrifying thing to then become a testimony later. I know that you wouldn't have chosen that and I would not have chosen that for you. I'm so sorry that you went through that.

Starting point is 00:31:43 But wow, how significant that he has been using you in your story like this? Absolutely. I know that is not lost on me that this was seven attempts. I know seven is repeatedly in the Bible 40 days, as you said. And those are the little God winks that have done. given me so much strength. I'm incredibly grateful. So many people say, how can you smile? How can you, you know, put one foot in the other? And there is a deep sense of faith and resolve throughout this entire experience. And one of the things that was simultaneously going on, which I feel like I

Starting point is 00:32:26 could share with you as a fellow believer. I had felt just the Lord putting on my heart to start a girls Bible study right before this happened. And I had a group of eight girls meeting in my house weekly studying the purpose-driven life book. I don't know if you've ever read that one. And I don't think that that was just by happenstance either. Those girls were my absolute rock through this whole process. And just staying in the word and staying centered on the truth of the Lord really helped me overcome these incredibly scary and horrific moments. Next sponsor is seven weeks coffee. So you can't see right now in this shot, but just out of this shot is a bunch of bags of our seven

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Starting point is 00:34:41 What was he ultimately convicted of? He was originally charged with three felony assaults, felony assault to induce abortion, felony assault of a pregnant person and then felony assault. injury to a child. Ultimately, he took a plea deal. The felony assault to induce abortion was dropped, and his plea deal was for 180 days in jail plus probation for the attempted murder of our daughter seven separate times. Wow, that doesn't seem like anywhere close to proportionate to what he did. And so now he is out of jail. And how do you feel? I mean, I can imagine there's something inside

Starting point is 00:35:36 of you that is fearful. Absolutely. It's terrifying. I think these pleadials and weak sentences, they only emboldened abusers. And so it's been really scary. I felt like it was a slap on the wrist. This was, you know, we had worked so hard and for so long to obtain all of this evidence. And it was just heartbreaking because I truly believed in that moment that we were doing the right thing. We were gathering the correct evidence. And I do believe it would have been enough if this had gone to trial. But the pleadial offering was pitiful. And it was just such a shock. to be in the state of Texas that's very vocal about being tough, tough on criminals and being huge advocates for life. And this just did not align with those values. So I was,

Starting point is 00:36:41 I was very frustrated with the lack of justice in my case. Totally. It is a lack of justice. did you ever figure out why? Besides him, apparently just being unhappy, not wanting to be married anymore, why did he decide to go to this length to kill your daughter and possibly kill you too? I don't know that I'll ever know the full answer. He pled the fifth, so we don't have a lot of extra information. But I do know through the divorce process, we discovered that he had been living a double wife. And so we we do know that he was having an affair for a long, a long time before this

Starting point is 00:37:31 even happened. So it's just, it's heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking for our family and for my beautiful children. And we just, we take one day at a time. My now ex-husband is actually serving a prison sentence currently for breaking his probation from the initial charges. And so, you know, we're just, we're trying to just get through this new normal. My kids are doing remarkably well, all things considered. And we just really try to stay focused on the positive. And do you know when he's going to get out of prison? He was sentenced in, let's see, October of 2025 for eight years for the assaults on me and then eight years for the assault on my daughter. But it will be served concurrently.

Starting point is 00:38:41 Is that right? Concurrently at the same time. And so, yeah, there's, you know, there's a little bit of relief for our safety. You know, with that case, he had broken the protective order. And so I was grateful to Harris County for standing strong and standing up for our protective order to be in place. So he's in prison for eight years right now, but I know just a couple of minutes ago we were talking

Starting point is 00:39:22 about the injustice of the plea deal and him only serving 180 days. So tell us how he landed in prison now. Yeah, the 180 day plea deal, it was 180 days plus 10 years of probation. So there were all kinds of stipulations with that probation, one of which was, to follow our 19-year protective order. And just six months after being released from jail, he started breaking the protective order. And so he was sentenced, sentenced through that for eight years. And since this happened, well, first, I want to hear about the birth of your daughter in the midst of all of this still happening, tell us about meeting her.

Starting point is 00:40:21 Yeah. Well, her name is Josephine Grace, and she is just the biggest miracle. I am so grateful every day for her. She is doing well now, but it was a long road. My water broke at 28 weeks. I had an emergency C-section at 30 weeks. They had put me on hospital bed rest trying to keep me, keep her cooking after my water broke, which for any of your listeners who've ever done that before, it was quite an experience.

Starting point is 00:41:04 You know, they lay you up in the hospital bed and, you know, try your best to not move. And anyways, we kept her cooking to 30 weeks. And she was born at three pounds, six ounces, teeny tiny. And I couldn't hold her at first. She was too small. But we got her settled in the NICU. She was there for about seven weeks. but she has she's had a long road in the hospital she's spent over 160 days in and out of

Starting point is 00:41:49 ICU's at 14 months she was non-mobile non-verbal and did not eat or drink by mouth but we got her into intensive therapy at one point she was doing eight classes a week of physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech. But today, if she walked in the room, you would have no idea that she had overcome so much in four short years. She is a true inspiration, and I'm so grateful to be her mom. Yeah. And are the challenges that she faced at the beginning of her life, are they mostly due to the premature birth, or are they due to the premature birth? Or are they due to what she had to overcome inside the womb or both. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:42:43 I'm not able to speak very much about that. But, you know, we have ongoing litigation. I think it will never end. So I'm not able to get into the details of it. But I will say the level of stress. that both of us have gone through undoubtedly has impacted us both. I've been diagnosed with complex PTSD and that involved a lot of severe insomnia, cognitive dissonance, brain fog, as you can imagine, distrust in people, right?

Starting point is 00:43:36 even to this day, like when somebody gives me a drink that I haven't seen them make, it gives me pause. And I think I will certainly live with the effects of this horrific crime for many years to come. Next sponsor is Shopify. If you've been sitting on the business idea, but you're not doing anything about it just because you don't know what to do. you don't know how to set up your e-commerce site. You're just not a tech person. You don't have to be. All you have to do is rely on Shopify.

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Starting point is 00:45:12 advocate for women going through similar things. You've also advocated for some legislative changes. So can you talk about that? Talk about what you're trying to change, how you're trying to help moms and young wives in the same situation. Absolutely. The thought that young girls, especially college age 20-year-olds, might be going through this all alone in their dorm rooms, facing the side effects of these drugs, whether they've taken it themselves or they've been coerced or forced into an abortion. You know, these, the bodily effects of these drugs are just horrific. I have never experienced anything like that.

Starting point is 00:46:04 It is a next level sickness. You truly have no bodily control. and you need medical attention desperately. I'm so thankful that I went to the emergency room when I did. Also thankful for progesterone, obviously, that saved Josephine's life. But my advocacy work is to protect women from ever facing forced and coerced abortion. I hope it's a deterrent to any men considering this egregious, crime, but that also women wouldn't have to face their abusers only receiving light sentences

Starting point is 00:46:49 like 180 days. That's just not justice in our country. So I've been working. I worked with my brother, actually, who is a state senator from Louisiana, Thomas Presley, on the Catherine and Josephine Herring Act in Louisiana. And proudly, got that legislation signed by Governor Landry and then went over to Arkansas and did a similar bill with them that was passed unanimously. And I'm really proud of that because this is not a party issue. This is truly common sense. Women should not be poisoned with abortion pills. So that advocacy work has also led to the founding of a nonprofit organization. And that I started called the Stay at Your Home Mom Foundation.

Starting point is 00:47:44 And we are working towards helping women stay in their home after horrific domestic violence acts like this. So there's a lot of support out there for women who live in apartments or who choose to go to a domestic violence shelter. But there's very few resources for homeowners. any women who own their own home, they just don't qualify for state or federal funding. And so my nonprofit is working towards supporting them so that women and children can stay in their homes during this very, you know, this emotional roller coaster that you go through with the court system. And you've also worked with Alliance Defending Freedom, correct? Correct. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:48:43 Yes. And so important for people to know as you were telling your story, people just don't realize the effect that the abortion pill has on the woman taking it. Like you said, you need medical help right away. And so many of these women are receiving male order abortion pills by way of the way of an FDA regulation that happened under the last president has continued to be allowed under this president where women can just order these dangerous abortion pills and they don't have to be under the supervision of any medical provider at all. And so yes, the poisoning that is a huge, huge tragedy and crime that is ongoing. And also even the women who are taking it themselves,

Starting point is 00:49:30 they are not being told up front the potential consequences to their own life and bodies. It's such a dangerous thing, as you said in the beginning, how sadly ironic is it that you have to have a prescription to take progesterone, but you don't have to have a prescription to be able to take these pills that can kill you, can put you into kidney failure. Right. And I would add that you don't even have to be a woman to order the pills. You can be a man. you don't have to prove your gender.

Starting point is 00:50:01 You don't even have to prove your age. Teenagers can order this without their parents' knowledge. Bad actors can easily obtain these drugs. And so that's one of the reasons I'm working with the Alliance Defending Freedom is to reinstate the safeguards of this drug. I don't think that's asking a lot for the FDA to simply have oversight over the the drug distribution going on in this country. Totally. This is like a big ask that we should have of the Trump administration. It's something that I asked the vice president about directly when I was

Starting point is 00:50:40 interviewing him a couple of weeks ago. I'm like, where are we on this? And also it's even if you want to see it from like an RFK perspective, you could argue it's an environmental issue as well with poisoning the water systems. There's nothing, there's nothing good that is coming out of this, especially at the level of dysregulation and unregulation that we have today. And of course, it allows tragic cases like yours. Last sponsor is NetSuite. They say that every day your business is late to AI. You fall two days behind.

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Starting point is 00:52:18 Well, what else do you want people to know? If there's a woman out there, maybe she's in a similar situation or she's in a domestic violence situation, I'm sure you've learned a lot of lessons that you did not want to learn, but now you're imparting on others. Like, what would you tell her right now?

Starting point is 00:52:36 Yeah. That kind of, it gets me choked up. Yeah. I would just, I would really just encourage women facing pregnancies under difficult circumstances to keep going. Just one foot in front of the other, one day at a time. it's hard when you're going through that people say it will work out but I'm four and a half years out of this and I am so grateful to have Josephine with me. It has not been easy. Have a C-section by yourself, not easy. I truly believe this is not the divine design. but it's the card that we have been dealt. And my three kids are such a blessing. And as long as you, you know, you keep your faith first and you ensure that you are in a safe place.

Starting point is 00:53:51 I think domestic violence can be so scary because you are willing to put you yourself in harm's way to continue that relationship or you're clinging to the hope of that relationship. And one of the blessings that I've been able to see now in hindsight is I was able to keep myself safe because of my child. I actually, I believed wholeheartedly and I still do in marriage for life. But in domestic violence situations, that can be a really dangerous concept. And so protecting Josephine's life ended up protecting my own life. And I'm just eternally grateful that we are both okay.

Starting point is 00:54:50 Yeah, me too. And just my final question, how do you plan to talk to Josephine about her story and the plan that God played out for her. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's amazing that she's already about to turn four. It's gone, it's gone faster than I would have imagined. But she had, Josephine has a strong head on her shoulders. She is small but mighty. And I know that her ability to overcome all of these hurdles from her gestational time during pregnancy to her delivery to her first two years. The developmental delays, she has been so strong. And so I know that this

Starting point is 00:55:44 will be heartbreaking, but that she will be able to overcome it. And I did want to add one thing. Normally, I try to say this and I just realize I have not, but Josephine is actually the one known surviving baby from an abortion pill poisoning. And so that's one of the reasons that I can't help but scream it from the mountaintops because she is truly such a miracle. So Heartbeat International is the hotline number that I called. And I believe their number is 8,000 babies have been saved after the mom chose to take an abortion pill and then did a reversal. But I am the only known case where I was poisoned and then the baby survived.

Starting point is 00:56:36 So sadly, I know you've probably heard like there's a case in Dallas. There's a case in Houston right now. Both of those cases, the babies passed away. Wow. Well, thank you so much. You certainly could have chosen a life of privacy and no one would have blamed you for that. You could have stayed silent about this and only had your closest friends know about it and you have chosen to allow God to redeem this and possibly save the lives of other people. And I'm

Starting point is 00:57:06 just so grateful for that. So I encourage everyone to check out your foundation, stay at your home foundation, really important issue that probably a lot of people haven't thought about. And thank you again for sharing your testimony, Catherine. Thanks so much for your time.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1379 | Her Husband Poisoned Her & Their Baby. Now Her Story Is Saving Lives | Catherine Herring

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