Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1382 | Perez Hilton Livestream: Is This a Real Demonic Possession? 

Episode Date: August 10, 2026

Did Perez Hilton suffer a mental breakdown, or was he possessed by a demon? Allie dives into how the blogger and media personality was hospitalized on August 4 due to severe self-harm and his unstable mental state. Hilton claimed to be a Christian afterward, but some things don’t add up. Allie discusses the question of whether or not a believer can be possessed by a demon and if what Perez Hilton is experiencing is demonic possession or the result of living in sin. Allie also looks at Ariana Grande’s new music video “Petal,” examining the glorification of gore and her sickly state. Both Hilton and Grande exemplify what life without Christ looks like and show that true healing can only be found in him. Allie also talks about Jackie Oshry, co-host of the podcast “The Toast,” who made her appearance on second lady Usha Vance’s podcast promoting her new children’s book, despite receiving a lot of backlash. Conversely, Nara Smith disowned her "tradwife" persona that made her who she is during an appearance on “Call Her Daddy.” Allie also answers a voicemail asking about first-time obedience. Do you have a question for Allie? Leave a voicemail at 844-755-5252. Share the Arrows 2026 is on October 10 in Dallas, Texas! Tickets are on sale now at: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://sharethearrows.com⁠⁠⁠ Share the Arrows is sponsored by: A'del Natural Cosmetics: AdelNaturalCosmetics.com Range Leather: RangeLeather.com/ALLIE We Heart Nutrition: WeHeartNutrition.com Buy Allie's book "Toxic Empathy: How Progressives Exploit Christian Compassion": ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.toxicempathy.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ – Time Codes 0:00 Introduction 4:39 Perez Hilton’s “Conversion” and Breakdown 21:10 Was This a Demonic possession? 36:30 Can Christians Be Possessed? 41:06 Ariana Grande 52:26 SLOTUS Interview “The Toast” Co-Host 56:24 Nara Smith Rejects the Tradwife Label 1:02:25 Allie Gives Advice – Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers | If you go to ⁠⁠⁠GoodRanchers.com⁠⁠⁠ and subscribe to any box of 100% American meat, you’ll save up to $500 a year! Plus, if you use code ALLIE, you’ll get an additional $25 off your first order. EveryLife | Visit EveryLife.com and use promo code ALLIE10 to get 10% off your first order today! Patriot Mobile | Go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 972-PATRIOT. Use promo code ALLIE for a free month of service. Fellowship Home Loans | Start with a free consultation at FellowshipHomeLoans.com/Allie and receive a $500 credit at closing. Visit worldwatch.news/allie or use promo code ALLIE to start your free trial today. Episodes You May Like: Ep 1143 | Wikipedia Co-Founder: Studying Hollywood Cults & Epstein Island Led Me to Christianity | Guest: Larry Sanger https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1143-wikipedia-co-founder-studying-hollywood-cults/id1359249098?i=1000694129368 Ep 1090 | Demon Possession, Occult Obsession & the Real JD Vance | Guest: Rod Dreher https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-1090-demon-possession-occult-obsession-the-real-jd/id1359249098?i=1000674767859 --- ► Buy Allie's book "You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love": https://alliebethstuckey.com/book ► Subscribe to the podcast: iTunes: https://apple.co/2UVssnP Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2FwkXxj ► Connect with Allie on Social Media: https://twitter.com/conservmillen https://www.instagram.com/alliebstuckey/ https://facebook.com/allieBlazeTV/ ► "Relatable" merchandise: Use promo code ALLIE10 for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

If Satan is the prince of the power of the arrow right now, if he has now at work in the sons and the daughters of disobedience, among whom we all once walked, okay, and we're children of wrath, is this just what it looks like to be a child of wrath? There's maybe a spectrum of that doesn't always look like this, or is this true demonic possession? Demon possession and the glorification of blood and gore and pain, sickness, darkness, sadness. that's not necessarily new, but it does seem to be more and more out front. And if we're not careful, we can get really desensitized to this and we can forget that spiritual warfare is something that is waging every single day.

And it's not every day that we have an example of that in our faces that is circulating on social media that gives us the opportunity as Christians, as people who understand what is really going on beneath the surface behind the headlines. And that is that war between the prince of the power of the air and Jesus. We know the victory. We know the outcome of all of this. Yet we also have to understand how this is still unfolding today and offer people not only clarity and courage in the midst of this very dark reality, but also we can offer

them hope. We can offer them a picture of what the future actually looks like. So as we talk about Perez Hilton, as we talk about. As we talk about Ariana Grande, that is what we are going to get into today. And then what is the Bible say about what demonic possession actually looks like? It's also a turn that is thrown around a lot that people say, oh, that's demonic or that's satanic or that's dark, that's evil. But what does that actually look like in scripture?

As always, the Bible is going to be our guide in all of that. All right, before we get into that, let me remind you of the best news ever. and keep this in mind as we are talking about every single thing that we're talking about today that God's eternal plan of redemption is going off without a hitch. There's nothing that goes on that's too disturbing or too dark for the Lord to overcome. Like there is nothing that happens that could inhibit his plan. There's nothing that goes on that he's like, I didn't see that coming. Or wow, that trend is way darker than I could have ever imagined.

How am I going to pull people out of the pit? Oh, this nation is too far gone for me to do my work, for me to seek and save. the loss. That's not how it works because God is all powerful. He is all good. Joe 42 reminds us that nothing can thwart his will. No power, no government, no politician, no celebrity, no trend, no billionaire, nothing can thwart God's will. He is going to rescue all of his sheep. The sheep know his voice and are going to follow him and we can trust that beyond the headlines, beyond what we talk about unrelatable, that God is doing his work faithfully through the mostly unseen and unsung faithfulness of believers. And so no matter what is going on in your

life, no matter what is going on in the world, we can trust that, that he is moving forward completely unhindered and that his day of victory, of total victory, where we are rescued once and for all and we live in perfect peace with him forever and ever, it's coming. It is. God's not just standing back and saying, wow, I wish I could do something about this. Psalm 37 reminds us that like his wrath is kindling. He's got an answer for. He's got a response to. He's got vengeance for his people. He's got a response to those who have been waging evil forever. That's why Psalm 37 opens with, don't worry about those who do evil. Don't fret over those who are doing the bad things. All of those evil people that you see and they seem to be succeeding.

don't worry about them. Don't waste your time fretting over them because God's going to take care of it. Psalm 37, Psalm 27, Psalm 25, Psalm 2. Those are really my go-to encouragement passages. So maybe you might need to pause this episode in some parts and go and read those passages. Maybe after this, you need to look at some of those chapters that I just read to you. Ephesion 6 would be another one that is extremely pertinent because we're going to talk about some dark stuff today. And we have to, from a biblical perspective, because these are real people made in the image of God who are affected by all of this. So let's talk about the story that was circulating last week of Perez Hilton. He had a TikTok live that went viral because of the bloody mess that he was creating on his own body. Okay,

so that's what Perez Hilton looks like. We are not going to play the video. We are not going to put screenshots up of the video. I think the Lord that I have not come across that on my timeline. I am purposely trying to avoid that. I didn't search for it. The descriptions that I saw of this TikTok Live were extremely just disturbing, just even reading the words of what was going on, but I will not be subjecting you to those images. He seemed to have a mental health crisis on TikTok Live where he was literally flaying his body, was naked, and then authorities came and took him away. And a lot of people are wondering, okay, was he possessing? by a demon, does this have to do with his spiritual journey that he apparently has been on?

A few months ago, he professed to become a Christian after a health scare that landed him in the hospital. But the truth is that we don't, we don't really know until we dig into this because there are a few parts of his story that I think are pertinent to answering the question, was he demon possessed during this? So let's back up a little bit. if you don't know who Perez Hilton is, honestly, I wasn't really familiar with him either. That's just his stage name.

He's been a celebrity blogger for a really long time. He got famous in the mid-2000s. He had a blog covering celebrity gossip, entertainment news. He really has said some of the most vile things and spread some of the most vile rumors about people. He doesn't have a great reputation, but sometimes he had some juicy gossip over the years that people have been interested in. So he's really made a name for himself. And so that's why people were also super interested.

When he became a Christian a couple months ago, or said he became a Christian a couple months ago, not only has he built his empire and his wealth off of gossip and in many cases malicious slander of people, but he's also openly gay. He procured three children and has lived this very flamboyant, secular life for a long time. I got a lot of people when he put out his video saying, yeah, I became a Christian a couple months

ago being like, oh my goodness, you need to cover this. You need to have Perez Hilton on. You need to play this video. And I just said, no, because I am always going to be a little bit wary of celebrating the testimony of new converts. Not that I can't be excited, just like I was excited about Kanye West and what he was doing. But I think a lot of that sanctification that is done, post conversion needs to be done privately. And it's just kind of like a wait and see approach that I have. I felt the same way about needs of powers. He was probably the most requested guest that I got. And there was just some piece. There was just some discernment that now I see as the Holy Spirit that was inside me that was like, this person's not ready for that. You don't need to contribute to this

person gaining a platform from his apparent testimony, which it doesn't seem was actually true. and that's always how I kind of felt about Perez Hilton, like, let's just wait and see. We need to see the fruit of repentance. We need to see the fruit of the Holy Spirit there. And then that becomes an interesting testimony. So people have been watching him lately as he's been talking about his faith. He went on this broadcast on TikTok for 15 to 20 minutes. And then after he was just committing this awful violence against himself, saying very erratic things,

9-1-1 in his area in Miami received multiple calls. reporting a possible suicide attempt that came to his residence about 11 p.m. Just to show what kind of mindset he was in, Hilton said on his broadcast, I hope the cops shoot me to death. I'm going to tell them I'm going to hurt them. Emergency responders transported Hilton to a local hospital. He was hospitalized forcibly. And then in the days that have followed, Hilton's family released updates saying that he was receiving medical care, asking for privacy, that he was able to communicate. the first people I thought about in this was his children.

I knew that he had children, but they're teenagers and then they also have a young son who is eight years old and, you know, people are reporting they're safe, they're fine. Okay, they might be physically safe in this moment, but if that is your home, like if that is your father, I don't know if he's the biological father or not, but just imagine, like if that is what he is broadcasting publicly, what kind of instability and just disturbing darkness has infiltrated that home in these little kids' lives for so long. And so just pray for them.

Pray, I'm not going to list all their names on this podcast, but you should pray for them. Pray for their safety. Pray that they would know Jesus. Pray that this would become a part of their testimony. Pray that God would fill their lives with godly people who know him, who preach the gospel to them, who bring them to church. and so they can have that foundation of Christ, and they can know that they do have a father who will never betray them,

who is trustworthy, who is there for them. That's really who my heart goes out to in a big way right now. So let's answer this question or try to explore the question at least of whether or not this particular moment is an example of demonic possession. And how should we think about that as Christians and also how do we respond? Now, we're going to be talking about all of this supernatural reality and the powers of darkness that exist and how we push back against all of those things at Share the Arrows October 10th in Dallas, Texas. It is the no-fluff gospel-centered Christian women's conference. You know, a lot of women's conferences, not all, but a lot of women's conferences, especially Christian ones, focus on emotion.

They'll tell you things like your biggest problem is that you don't see really who you are, that you don't have. enough self-esteem or that you're beautiful and perfect the way you are, that is not what share the arrows is. If that's what you're looking for in a women's conference, you shouldn't come to share the arrows. But if you are looking for apologetics, if you're looking for theology, if you're looking for biblical teaching, if you are looking for spirit-filled worship by worship leaders like Shane and Shane, then you've got to come to share the arrows. If you want lifelong Christian friendships, come to share the arrows. It's October 10th, Dallas. Texas. We'll put up the graphic. You've got Elisa Childers. She's back for the third year,

Rosaria Butterfield. You know she's going to bring it. Costihan. Shane and Shane, yours truly so many more apologetics, motherhood, being a biblical wife, what it looks like to be a biblical woman in every single realm that we occupy. It's brought to you this year by Adele Natural Cosmetics. Go to share the arrows.com. Get your tickets today. Before we get back into this story, let me tell you about fellowship home loans. If buying a home is on your family's list of to-does this year, maybe it's on your list of goals, then you need to listen to this. The smart move isn't waiting until you find the perfect house. The smart move is getting pre-qualified right now before you even start looking because in this market, houses, good houses can sell in days.

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mentality. Go ahead. Get pre-qualified today. Go to fellowship homelones.com slash alley for $500 back at closing. Fellowship Home Loans, Mortgage Loans, DBA Fellowship Home Loans, Equal Housing Lender, NMLS number 819-382. So back in April, Perez Hilton said that he had begun reading the Bible from start to finish. He had a near-death experience. He was in the hospital for 21 days. he had sepsis, all different kinds of conditions. We don't know exactly what led to that. But it seemed also like he had some instability during that time. Now, like I said, I'm not someone who's followed Perez Hilton.

So maybe that's just how he talks. But certainly in those first videos after his hospitalization, I was like, this is not someone who seems well excited about this journey. This is amazing. He has lived a life of darkness for a long time. We want him to be free. And absolutely anyone can be free in Christ, whether they are mentally unstable or not, no matter what their background is, no matter the sins

that anyone has committed, they can be free in Christ. That's the gospel. That's grace. And so we should be excited about that even while saying, okay, let's like kind of wait and see how this shakes out. So here is where his journey kind of started, at least publicly, of him saying, wow, God has forgiven me, saw one. God presented himself to me in the hospital and then healed me, did something.

that I could only describe as a miracle. I had been calling out to God for years, opening my heart and inviting him. And now I no longer need to have faith. I don't need to hope to believe. I know that God is real and that God loves me. Okay. So obviously there are some things there that we wouldn't agree with the wording of. Like you don't have to have faith.

You don't have to have hope. I think he was trying to say he doesn't have to be untrue. sure anymore. Of course, we do believe in faith. We do believe in hope. You are saved by faith. You are saved by grace through faith. And hope is the assurance or we have faith is the assurance of things hoped for. So we do have faith. We do have hope as Christians. But you can kind of see what he was trying to communicate all the way back in April. He had claimed at different times. God had forgiven him. And so maybe there was some understanding of guilt there. He said he grew up Catholic, you know, he went through all of the different steps of Catholicism. He went to

Jesuit school. He was never a believer, he said, until now. Now, he also during this time, because he is publicizing this journey, and of course, when you're publicizing something like this, rather than keeping it kind of sacred and private for a while, and I'm not just talking about going and sharing your testimony. That's one thing, but really kind of working things out publicly and externally, you're going to get a lot of feedback. You're going to get a lot of people probably saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, but what about the LGBTQ community and all of that? And he started sharing some observations that he had about homosexuality in the Bible. And here's kind of the conclusion that he came to a couple months ago, Sot 3. After God saved me in many ways,

I'm still gay, very gay, proudly gay. And I know that God loves me. And I know that God loves me as a father and God loves my children. So you can keep asking the same questions. I know what the Bible says. I've said it repeatedly. I don't believe in everything that the Bible says. I believe in what I know.

Okay. So obviously, again, as Christians, we know that it's not enough to know he goes on to say, I believe in what I know. I know God is real. Okay, Satan knows that God is real. The demons know that God is real. They know that Jesus is God. They know Jesus is authority.

The simple knowledge of knowing that God is real that he generally saves, that he generally loves is not the faith that leads to salvation. Now, again, we want to be gentle and gracious with people who have just claimed to become Christians because a lot of us started out with beliefs that are we look back down. We're like, oh my gosh, that was a complete misunderstanding of the gospel or of the Bible, even though I was really, I was really trying. But obviously, he doesn't really understand based on what he's saying of sin and repentance and the Bible's authority and what salvation actually looks like.

He's made multiple videos over the past few months. God told me to do this. God told me to move people. Five weeks ago, he posted a video stating he had fallen off the wagon confessing he hadn't read his Bible or gone to church and week saying he'd been in a bit of a spiral. So we already see indications in some of his videos of a bit of a mental health spiral. He also said that he had been struggling financially. He posted a video on Instagram a few weeks ago selling Christian themed merch. He said to cover his hospital bills.

And so we'll just look at some of those t-shirts. you've got, you know, a depiction of what's supposed to be Jesus. You've got a depiction of what's supposed to be the Virgin Mary. And this aesthetic is very popular right now. It's more of like a Catholic iconography. Yeah, we've got a mug on there, chair mugs. And he's just trying to apparently make some money in order to cover his hospital bills. And so he very quickly turned his professed Christianity into a brand.

into something that he can monetize into kind of his platform as an influencer, which to me, like doing that right away even while not being able to fully articulate the gospel, even while really struggling that in itself is a red flag because it's not substantive from what we see. It seems to be extremely superficial. And already there is like the money changing of look at this very superficial depiction of Jesus, give me money. so I can accomplish X, Y, Z.

That already is making me want to take a step back and say, I'm not really sure that what is going on here is authentic. Like, we need to take a pause. But some people are pointing out. And I think it is still a valid point and a valid question to ask that, okay, even if he wasn't there yet, even if he didn't fully understand the gospel, even if there were some theological errors,

was he genuinely on a journey of discussion? And was he trying to see, okay, what is true? Who is this Jesus person? And that is actually why he ended up in what seems like this very violent and demonic spiral. Is that a satanic effort at stopping him, at curtailing his journey? Is that Satan clawing away at him and trying to distract him as much as possible, trying to inhibit an actual testimony, trying to try to tempt him away from actual repentance and real revelation that comes through the word of God? Or was it never a real conversion in the first place? And he's been struggling with this kind of demonic power in darkness for a very long time. And we are just kind of seeing the

manifestation of that. Kevin Sorbo, for example, says demonic possession is real. Pray for Perez Hilton, Samuel Say says the Perez Hilton videos are horrific. That level of self-inflicted violence looks demonic. I think he recently professed faith in Christ. Pray for his healing, pray for his soul. How in the world the TikTok allowed the live stream to go on for so seemingly long? That's a good question. We've got several other people on Xane. This is what, this is what demonic possession actually looks like. Okay, is it really demonic possessing? or is it simply someone who is weighed down by sin? Like how do we actually know when someone is being possessed by a demon

versus when someone is just lost? Because I do think they can look very similar. Ephesians 2 described Satan as the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience. Now it work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once walked, according to the passions of our flesh. and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind. But God, but God, being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us, made us alive together with Christ.

By grace, you have been saved through faith. It's a beautiful passage. I love Ephesians, too. And the reason I haven't memorized is because I think it is the just best outline of what the gospel is and shows us all of our sins. So if Satan is the prince of the power of the error right now, If he is now at work in the sons and the daughters of disobedience, among whom we all once walked, okay, and we're children of wrath. Is this just what it looks like to be a child of wrath? There's maybe a spectrum of that. Doesn't always look like this, or is this true demonic possession?

Let's get into it in just a second. Let me pause. Tell you about something very wholesome, okay? If you are looking for wholesome news that is pointing to the Lord and trying to make sense of all the chaos of the world with as much clarity as possible, in a biblical worldview, then your kids, especially your teens, need to be watching World Watch. It is a great way to help your kids stay informed without being overwhelmed. It's designed specifically for teens, but you can watch it yourself, see if it's appropriate

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Here's what the truth about it is from a fact-based perspective. And here's what the Bible has to say about this subject. If you use my link, you'll get a free 30-day trial. worldwatch.new slash alley code alley worldwatch. News slash alley code alley. So when we look at demonic possession, actual demons occupying the body of someone in scripture, we do see that self-harm is a hallmark of demonic possession. I don't think that this means that it is always demonic possession, but it seems that when a demon is possessing someone, there is violence done to their bodies. In the book of Mark, a father brought his son to Jesus for deliverance from a demon that repeatedly tried to harm

the boy, Mark 9, 21 through 22. And Jesus asked his father, how long has this been happening to him? I just love that question from Jesus because he knows, but like any good doctor, any good healer, like he is asking for a context. And he said, from childhood, the father said, and it has often cast him into fire and water to destroy him. Can you imagine the anxiety of this father and mother? But if you can do anything, have compassion on us and help us. Jesus heals him. Similarly, in Mark 5, the man Jesus delivered from many demons was known for harming himself, Mark 5 2 through 5. And when Jesus had stepped out of the boat, immediately there met him out of the tombs, a man with an unclean spirit. He lived among the tombs and no one could bind him anymore. And even,

with a chain, for he had been bound with shackles and chains, but he wrenched the chains apart, and he broke the shackles in pieces. No one had the strength to subdue him night and day among the tombs and on the mountains. He was always crying out and cutting himself with stones. Now, again, not all thoughts of wanting to die are necessarily demonic. So, for example, Elijah prayed that he would die. First Kings 19, he was so depressed and he was so distraught that he asked that he might die. He says, it is enough now, Lord, take away my life, where I am no better than my father's. Job cursed the day of his birth, Job 3, 3 through 4. Let the day perish on which I was born in the night that said a man is conceived. So not even just birth, he doesn't even

want to be conceived. Let that day be darkness. Make God above not seek it. nor light shine upon it. Jonah asked God to take his life. Therefore now, oh, Lord, please take my life from me, for it is better for me to die than to live. Now, I do want to say, even though these people were not demonically possessed, because we don't see any other indication in their lives and in their ministry that they were actually possessed by a demon, these are not prescriptive passages. These are not passages saying, it's okay to say this. It's okay to think this. It's okay to pray this. This is descriptive. We know that Job going, where he went mentally when he just later, not in Job 3, but started to question like,

okay, like what really is going on here, God? God answers him out of the whirlwind. God doesn't say, yeah, I get it. I get why you wouldn't trust me. I get why you would say all of this. God is like, were you there when I brought forth the animals and the earth when I told the ocean to only go so far? You weren't so you can take a seat. So, and Jonah obviously is not a great example of like, at least in parts of his ministry of how we should respond to God. So I'm not saying that these passages are good, but it's not necessarily an indication of demonic possession. So we do need to differentiate between the two.

So we don't know, we don't know for sure. Now, I would say based on these two examples of like what it looks like to want to die and what demonic possession actually looks like, the Perez Hilton live stream looks more like demonic possession. It reminded me, as soon as I saw the description of it, it reminded me of the man walking among the tombs, who was cutting himself with the stones every day, who is possessed by legion, so multiple demons that Jesus cast out into the pigs who then ran off of the cliff. And so do I think that this is demonic influence? 100%. I don't have any doubt about that. Do I know that he's possessed by a demon? Not necessarily. Yeah,

we just don't know. Because also, there is the aspect of living in a fallen world. There's the aspect of just having a true mental breakdown. Now, there's always something spiritual with that, I believe. I don't think that you can ever separate the mind from the soul or the brain from the soul. But there are actual mental problems that people have that I don't think are always a result of demonic influence themselves. In a 2013 interview, Perez described severe depression in his career that included daily suicidal thoughts. I'd be interested to know, like, what SSRIs was he on? Because those SSRIs can actually make these thoughts worse. In 2014, he talked about his depression in 2019. He talked about being in a very dark place in

2022, 24. He shared his experiences with anxiety tax periods of being really depressed for a while. Again, I think we have talked so much about psychological issues and like where psychiatry and psychology just get it wrong, stop short, completely pervert the truth and how medications can actually make it worse. And you do have to ask yourself, okay, does this person actually has something that is a sickness in their mind? Or is this simply the result from running away from God? seeking fame and stardom and slandering other people. I mean, that's a dark place to live. That's a dark place to be. I mean, there's, like if a prostitute came to you and was like, I'm super depressed, I've been making my money from only fans for the past 10 years. I'm really

depressed. You would not say to that person, oh, something's probably wrong with your brain. You would say, stop being a prostitute. It's because you're selling your body online. It's because you're living in sin and because you're degrading yourself for money. That doesn't good. You are made for something better than that. You are made for something bigger than that. You are a person that has innate dignity, not because of what you've done, not because of how much money you make, but because you are a person made in God's image. So anytime we live in a place that's out of whack, whether that is through your sexuality, your sexual behavior, whether that is by continually sinning and profiting off of that sin, like the book of Proverbs has a lot to say about

the person who spreads gossip and slander and then makes money off of that. you are constantly living in, living your life in a way that is totally perpendicular to what God says is healthy and good and right and true and is going to bring you fulfillment and peace and satisfaction. Of course, you're going to be depressed and anxious. So is this a mental health problem? I don't know. I think that actual mental health can really exist in a fallen world. There can be sicknesses that manifest themselves mentally. But we also need to look at all of circumstances in our lives. Like, what is making you sad? What is making you discontent? That might not be a serotonin problem. It might be a sin problem. It might be just a circumstance of life is really hard

right now problem that actually can't be fixed by medication. That's what Dr. Roger McPhillan, we've had him on a couple of times. That's really his point. It's not just to demonize SSRIs. He's also like, okay, very rarely do we get people willing to take a step back and say, why? am I so sad every day? Is there actually a good reason why I might be sad? Do I have really hard things going on? Do I have this thing that is just disjointed in my life that's making me not feel good? That's not going to be solved by just numbing your emotional response through more and more medication. So I don't know. I don't know if that's what's going on with Perez Hilton, but when you see someone that's living a life of blatant sin for years and years and years and they say they're depressed,

you're like, well, yeah, of course. Anyone would be. This is the danger. of kind of like persisting, persisting in sin, especially persisting in sin after you have professed the Christian faith and are making money off of the Christian faith. Scripture has repeated, has, has repeated serious warnings about those who claim to have accepted Christ as their Savior, but persist in this kind of unrepentant sin. All of us are going to sin. All of us are going to struggle until eternity. However, that unrepentant.

attitude of stubbornness of this is my identity. This is how I'm going to live. I know what the Bible says, I don't care. I am my own authority. The Holy Spirit's not going to allow you to continue in that if he lives in you. Romans 6 1 through 2 says, what shall we say then? As we are we to continue to sin that grace may abound by no means. How can we die to sin still live in it? I think we forget like what the death of Jesus actually accomplishes for us by grace through faith, you die to your sin. Your former self is crucified with Christ. It is no longer you who live. You are a new creation. He's not just making us better. He's not just making us happier. He has given you a new heart with new desires and a new self. And so how you live and think and what you want is totally different.

We saw that in the testimony that we had on Friday with the person who de-transtransferral detransitioned after 30 years and just how God gave him a new heart and a new perspective. If you haven't watched that, go back and watch it or listen to it. It's just incredible what God does. Hebrews 10, 26 through 27, for if we go on sending deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. And then last one, 1 John 36 through 9, no one who abides in him keeps on sin.

No one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sitting from the beginning. The reason the son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. Praise God. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning. For God's seed abides in him and he cannot keep sinning because he has been born of God. we've got a little bit more about demonic possession and then also Ariana Grande just to conclude the Perez Hilton's side of things we're going to pray for him I can't say for sure what is spiritually going on there I think that we can say in

confidence the Holy Spirit is not living inside him he doesn't have the fruit of the spirit and we want that for him again pray for his children pray for his family but pray for true spiritual relief that can only come through the gospel and the power of Christ because God is the miracle worker. He is the healer, but he cannot give you healing and happiness outside of himself. Can't serve two masters. And when we try to serve two masters, we are going to feel mentally and spiritually disturbed, whether or not you are actually demon possessed.

So before we get into the rest of it, let me pause and let me tell you about every life. Every life is the pro-life diaper company. So thankful for them, we use every life diapers or when we have our newborn, we'll be using every life diapers again, but we did when my third baby was still in diapers and pull-ups, we were using Every Life, their wipes, all of their products, they're so good, clean materials, super effective, would not be advertising with them if they didn't really work. If like they just were low-quality diapers, it wouldn't be worth it because of the inconvenience of the blowouts and all of that stuff, you don't have to worry about that with Every Life. I, in our experience,

they work super well. But my favorite thing about them is, of course, that they are, um, they are, um, they are promoting pregnancy. They're promoting life, but they are also fighting for these little babies inside the womb by providing diapers and resources for teen moms, for moms in crisis through pregnancy centers. You know, I have a big heart for pregnancy centers. So I'm always looking to partner with businesses that share that same passion. And they have been donating their buy-for-a-cause bundles to these pregnancy centers for their entire existence. So you can join with them. You can get great diapers, great clean products, and also save them. And also, say, lives by buying your diapers and wives from EveryLife. Go to EveryLife.com. Use code Alley 10.

Get 10% off your first order today. Everylife.com code Alley 10. And I do just want to say this because it's relevant to Perez Hilton, but it's always the question that we get. Can a Christian be demon possessors? The fact that he's going through all of this and indication that he is not a Christian. Theologian R.C. Sprole wrote this. In the Bible, we see demons possessing people and oppressing people, causing bodily harm, property damage, all kinds of things. The Christian is always faced with this question. Can I be demon possessed? I don't believe so, R. C. Sproles says.

I believe that people can be demon possessed, but I don't think that is possible for the Christian because God, the Holy Spirit resides in the regenerate person. And the scriptures tell us where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, second Corinthians 317. So no demon can hold us hostage to the power of Satan. Demons can oppress us. They can harass us. They can tempt us. They can attack us and so on.

But thanks be to God. He who is in us is greater than he who is in the world, 1 John. 4-4, 1-John 4-4 is the passage that I was thinking of. And that I also go back to when I am thinking not just of specific instances like this, but you really do see the power of Satan working through so many people, even seeing people, even people who seem to be in their right mind, people with large platforms, people who have a lot of influence. And it's not that they look crazy like this.

It's almost actually scarier. It's not that they're flaying their body on a camera. but they're looking straight at the camera and telling you a lie. They're looking straight at the camera and slandering someone. They're looking straight at the camera and accusing someone of something without evidence. And that's really more how Satan works because remember Satan is cunning. He was the most clever of all of the animals in the garden. Satan even disguises himself as an angel of light. So we see something like this and we clearly see, okay, Satan is at work somewhere. We don't know exactly how it's, like what it is, what level of power he has over this person.

But I think he's less hard to spot when the person that's talking seems sane and is completely compelling. And so if you have the Holy Spirit inside you, you have to be like the Berean and you have to test what's being said on every single podcast that you listen to, this one included, every single book that you read, every single person that you watch, compare that to the Word of God. And anyone who doesn't want you to do that, anyone who's like, oh, no, just listen to me. Definitely don't go to the Bible and kind of, you know, minimizes something like that. That's not someone that you should be listening to. The people that you can trust are like, test me.

Like test what I have to say. And if it's not true, don't listen to me, don't believe me, compare what I say, what anyone says to Scripture and go to the Holy Spirit and ask for discernment and truth because satanic work doesn't always look like a Perez Hilton breakdown. Sometimes it's millions and millions of views and millions of followers by someone who seems extremely compelling. There is a psychological danger in professing to follow Christ while knowingly rejecting his moral commands. Proverbs 3 1 through 2 talks about this.

Peace will be added to you if you let your heart keep his, keep his commandments. And so that's also something for us to be aware of. If we are celebrating what God calls evil, if we are entertained by what God calls evil, if we ourselves are doing things that God calls evil while professing to follow him, there's going to be a lack of peace and a level of instability in our own lives. unfortunately we do see these big displays of violence and what seems to me like demonic activity all throughout Hollywood and there is I think a way that God can actually use something as grotesque as all of this to point people to himself you might remember the interview that I did that

just you guys loved so much and it was an interview with the co-founder of Wikipedia who said that the evil that he saw in Hollywood actually is what made him first ask the question, okay, if objective evil exists, if I just know as someone who is an atheist instinctively that this is wrong, then that logically leads me to the realization that, okay, there must be an objective good. If they're obvious bad guys, then who are the good guys and who gets to decide? And where does that goodness and truth actually come from? And that led him on this journey of reading the Bible and becoming a Christian, praise God. So don't get to discreet. by all of this. God can even use this kind of thing to seek and save the lost, even someone like

Ariana Grande. In her recent music video, she released this music video for her new song, Petal. She portrays a performer named Pepper, who is repeatedly rejected by the executives. She auditions in front of. There are, you see a silhouette of her hacking the panel of executives with a chainsaw. The actual act of the murders, we're not going to play that, even though it's just a silhouette. It's just too graphic to show. We can show this voiceover right here that it's just like directly after. And we're not even going to play that for very long. Like she commits that murder. She opens this fortune cookie. It's like bloom wherever you're planted. And she's covered head to toe in blood, the blood of the people that she just murdered. The other performers

are, um, who are auditioning in this music video. They're cheering for her. I, And so people are pointing out just how disturbing this is and how dark this is that, you know, the point I think is that we're going to stick it to these executives who have told us all of these bad things about our bodies and ourselves. You can see that throughout the music video. They're writing down things about like how she should look and how she should perform and all of this. And as people are also talking about, okay, this is very gory. This is very dark, especially for someone who used to be like this.

light and bright pop star. Not that she was wholesome by any means because she wasn't, but this seems to be a big change. And gosh, we see this a lot. We even saw this like with Taylor Swift's going from how she used to be the sweet innocent country star to then, you know, doing witchcraft rituals and satanic messaging in some of her concerts, Billy Elish, the same way, even someone like Chapo Rhone. Like you think of all these people as a, oh, they've always been dark. They've always been edgy. that's actually not true. They become darker and edgier and more violent and more disturbed in their artistry as time goes on. That seems to also be true of someone like Ariana Grande. People are not

only pointing that out. They're looking at a picture like this and this is full screen 36. Even her fans are saying, and I don't know why X feeds me this commentary, I don't really like comment on things like this very often, but saying, okay, this weight thing has gone too far. Her skinniness has gone too far. Obviously, this is something that she is trying to highlight here. She is skin and bones. Okay. She has lost a lot of weight. And I am not saying that to be mean. She is a beautiful, talented person, but you can see all of her ribs. You can see her clavicles. You can see the ribs in her chest. And you can see this is a telltale sign. Like if I can say just from an amateur perspective, this is a telltale sign of anorexia. You are anorexic. You are bleakic. You are

bulimic or you have fatal cancer. And I'm not saying that in a lighthearted way at all. There is something going on here. Is it something spiritual? I don't know. It seems to me like it has to be. It seems to me like obviously, actually, I can't say unequivocally that it is something spiritual. What level of spiritual disturbance? I don't know. You can see this picture from a few years ago of what she looked like in 2018. And you can see a lot of pictures of what she looked like over the years. Beautiful. I've always thought that she was so cute. And she's very petite. There's never been a time that I can think of in Ariana Grande's career where she has been overweight. But as she got into Wicked and she was doing that press tour,

that's when people started talking about, okay, this woman is. is just too thin. To me, when you have this skeletal figure covered in blood, you see the wedding of these two things, she's glorifying them. She has not talked at all about, hey, I'm sick. Hey, I've got something going on. Hey, I'm on medication that is making me lose weight. In fact, she's kind of doubled down and talked about she's so much healthier now than she used to be. Yes, I do think that there is something very dark going on mentally and spiritually here. I just, I just do. I don't know. know exactly what it is. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes in Hollywood. I think some very scary exchanges probably happen. But again, we don't even need to know all of that to know that this

is just the nature of sin. It takes you from one thing to the other. It's also the nature of addiction. It's the nature of mental, spiritual illness and which you see something in the mirror that is just not real, but she looks like she is on the verge of death. She actually talks publicly about leaving Christianity after being raised Catholic. So both her and Perez Hilton raised Catholic. Many such cases left Christianity. She said in 2014, she was disappointed with the church's stance on homosexuality.

Her older brother, Frankie, again, many such cases, came out as gay. And the two of them started looking into Kabbalah. Is that the emphasis on the right syllable there? A form of Jewish mysticism instead. Now, whether or not she is still practicing that, I don't know. It does seem to me like she's in some sort of mystic world.

She has had a lot of long relationships. She has been engaged multiple times. She also was dating her wicked co-star, Ethan Slater. Slater was married with a child when he began dating Ariana Grande. So she was a homewrecker in that sense. Obviously knew that he was married with a child. And there were even comments. on his wife's Instagram from her when she was pretending to be her friend and then started dating him.

So I think it's safe to say she leads a really awful broken life. Like, and it is kind of crazy what we consider acceptable just as the world and what we consider controversial and non-controversial. She should be a very controversial figure, but instead her posts still get millions of likes. People still praise her as being beautiful and wonderful. like, no, this girl is on the brink of death, fantasizing and glorifying murder, the last thing our culture needs right now. And she's a homewacker. And yeah, I do think all of this is a result of her saying, no, I'm going to look into mysticism instead of Christianity. Um, remember this,

John 10, 10, 10, the thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. Okay. So whenever we see the glorification of stealing, the glorification of killing, the glorification of destruction, we can say whether or not we know it's demonic possession, that's the thief. That's the accuser. That's the adversary. That's the enemy. That person wants to destroy me. I refuse to be entertained by that. I refuse to support that. I refuse to call that glamorous and holy and good because Christ died for that. Christ died to defeat the thief that comes to steal, kill, kill, and destroy. I want to be on the right side. Jesus says, I came that they might have life and have it abundantly. So that's the juxtaposition there.

Thief came to steal, kill, and destroy. Jesus comes that you might have life and have it abundantly. How clear can it get? What sounds better to you? What sounds better? Matthew 11, 28 through 30, come to me all who labor and are heavy laden, I will give you rest. And you will find rest for your souls.

For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. That's what everyone's looking for. You're looking for respite from your stress, from your anxiety. You're not going to find it in all of the places that you are looking, but it can be found in Christ. We have so many questions and so many problems. And Jesus and his ministry says over and over again, yeah, that thing that you're looking for, it's me.

You can find it right here. 2 Timothy 1, 7, for God give it's not a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of self-control. I also think about the passage in Ephesians. It's not in my notes, but it's just coming to my mind that the sons of darkness, actually now that I'm saying it, I want to make sure that I get it right. And so I'm going to try to look it up.

I think it's in Ephesians 5, starting in verse 6. Let no one deceive you with empty words. For because of these things, the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore, do not become partners with them. For at one time you are darkness. Now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light. For the fruit of light is found that is all in all that is good and right.

and true and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord. Remember in Ephesians 2, we talked about children of wrath that we all once were walking among under the influence of the prince of the power of the air. Now in Ephesians 5, he's saying, walk as children of light. Oh, you don't know what that is? Good, right, true. Do that. Live that. Try to discern what God likes. Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. So that's what we're trying to do today. For it is shameful to speak of the things that they do in secret. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible for anything that becomes visible is light. And then he goes on to talk about like what this looks like. Don't get drunk. Be filled with the spirit. You should be singing Psalms,

him, spiritual songs, make melody to the Lord with your heart. And then he goes into how this plays out in relationships between husbands and wives and between fathers and children and all of that. Read the book of Ephesians if you have not already. is very obvious. There is a spiritual war that is going on. It's getting more and more blatant. But remember what is that it's not always bloody. It's not always gory. But when it is, it's a good opportunity to point the unbeliever to, that's not good, right? You see so obviously that that's not good. You don't want that. You don't want your life to go that direction. If we can agree that that's bad, let me tell you about the good news. There's bad news and

there's good news. The bad news of the gospel always presees the good news, the bad news be that you're a sinner in need of a savior. All right. Now we're going to get into a couple more things. Let me tell you about our next sponsor. It's Good Ranchers. Good Ranchers.com slash Alley will get you $50 off on all American meat. We have been eating good ranchers in our home for five years.

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They literally have everything. and it all tastes really good. It's super high quality. I love when Chief Related, bro. Grills are steaks. They're so good. And it's all shipped right to your front door on dry ice. Makes your life so much easier. You don't have to worry about going to the grocery store and making sure that you get the right cut of meat that's probably imported from who knows where. Support American Farms and Ranchers today. Go to Good Ranchers.com slash Alley for the discount. Good Ranchers.com slash alley. Okay, I just wanted to say two things. We don't have time to get into like the fullness of the story that I was going to talk about, but I talked about this for a second on Instagram.

And some of you were like surprised that I had even known that something like this was happening. You did not know that I knew what the toast was. Of course I do. Am I not a millennial woman? Was I not born in 1992? Do I not have an Instagram? Of course I know what the toast is. And sometimes I even try to listen to the toast. I'm like, is there anything pop culture wise that I need to know? And then I'm listening to it. I'm like, what is summer house? What, what's a, what's a Vanderpump? I have, I have no clue. I don't know what this is. I don't know where you watch these things. I don't know how many people watch them. I, I don't know who these people are in real life. Like, there's nothing about this that I know. Um, but I appreciate the toast because I think

we all understand that they're kind of like low key conservative. Like, I don't think they're conservative like me. They're not Christians. But I think especially after, it seems to me, just my guess, like after October 7th and after that whole craziness and you've got like the election in 2024, I would probably guess. they voted for Trump. Plus, their mom is like a big anti-Islam activist. They don't really talk about that. But I just think that they're like, they're definitely not progressive. Like, I don't think that they believe in like men and women's sports. I've even heard Claudia say things that I just like agree with and appreciate in a very brash way. When she's talking about divorce, she's like,

just grow up. Like, just stay together. Come on. And you just don't see that that much in like pop culture, that attitude. So I like them. I like them. And I loved that Jackie, the co-host, she just had a conversation with Usha Vance because Usha Vance has this thing where she has someone come on and read a kid's book. And Jackie has a new kid's book out. And they got together and Jackie read the book. And there were all kinds, there was like all kinds of backlash in the comments about this. People saying they're not going to listen to the dose anymore. And it's like if you did not understand where the toast was politically, then like you, you haven't been paying attention.

So here they are. Very sweet. Thought six. Today's special reader is a mom and an author. And she has a podcast just like this, but for grownups. Welcome to the host of the toast, Jackie Oshery. Hi. I'm so excited.

So thank you for bringing this story. I'd love to hear it. I would love to read it. This is The Camper and the counselor. Cute. I haven't read the book. Don't know if I can recommend the book. I'm sure it's cute, though.

And I just say good for you. Okay, good for you for doing something that you knew was going to be controversial, that you knew some toasters would not like, and you did it anyway. You did it because it's a great opportunity. Of course, it's a great opportunity to sell your book. And also probably the controversy will help with some sales. And like, who cares about the haters anyway?

But I just appreciate people. I really don't like, I don't like cowards. I just really don't. people like Caitlin Clark who are not willing to stand up for women and girls sports or people just who aren't willing to say something that's true, aren't willing to do anything controversial because, oh, this person might like talk bad about me. I don't like cowards, okay? So it's not like this person is going to like win a Nobel Peace Prize for this, but she did something that she knew was going to get hate and she's proud of it. And she doesn't apologize. I hate when people

apologize for people or for things that they shouldn't be sorry for. So she's, I just know, she's not going to apologize, she's not going to back down. So good for that. Okay, like that, hate this, hate Nara Smith on Call Her Daddy. Okay. Like the toast, that collab between her and the VP or the Slotis anyway, hate the collab of Call Her Daddy and Nara Smith. Okay. This is someone who I think is doing the opposite of what Jackie was doing. She's saying, okay, and we'll put up a picture of Nara Smith if you don't know who this is. I didn't follow Nara Smith. I'm probably going to say something in just a second that might make some of you mad. I didn't follow Nora Smith, but I will show you who she is.

She gained a large following from these kind of videos. Here's everything I prep to make my week just a little bit easier. I start by making my Roybus granola by combining all of my dry ingredients in a ball, separately with my egg white, and add coconut sugar, maple syrup, roibus, along some other spices. Okay. I don't have anything like against this person. Like I said, I didn't, I didn't follow her.

But this and she's so beautiful, so beautiful. Okay, I understand why people follow her and her creations look incredible. Super impressive. So that is awesome. I think like if that is the kind of content that you like to watch, I think that's great. I could see how that's peaceful. It makes me feel the opposite. It stresses me out.

Like her, like, I don't know. I just, it's not for me. Okay. And so I wasn't someone that followed her closely, but I did, you know, I appreciate that there are some people who are like, well, making is great. Cooking is great. Taking care of your family is great.

I am for that message. So when someone then goes on a podcast that is so opposed to the values that most of your followers have, and you kind of trash the category that people have put you in, which I have my own problem with Tradwife Influencer Trend, as we have talked about many times from a Christian perspective, a Christian perspective. The completion of biblical and trad is not something that I am for. But for her to be like, no, I'm a boss babe.

And how dare you categorize me as this? This is the trend in the category that has made you what you are, Nara Smith. And for you to go on this degrading sex podcast and trash that, I don't like it. Stop five. People started to compare you to Tradwife. Yeah. And people were like... It kind of used me as the poster child for the Trad Wife movement, which was very bizarre to

I don't prioritize being a homemaker. I'm a working mom. Like, I am out in L.A. I travel a lot. I, sure, do I love cooking because it's my passion and because I kind of have to do it given my autoimmune? Absolutely. But that's a passion of mine. It's a hobby. It's not something that I need to be doing. Primary caregiver for my kids. No, my husband and I split it 50-50. Like when he works, I watch them. When I work, he watches them. And now, given everything that's been going on, we also have help my mom's out. We have someone. and that helps us with the kids because it's just not doable for me to do it all. I don't think a trad wife would be cooking in like Scaparelli, you know, or a Miskino look straight off the runway. Like I don't think that's what a trad wife would do. I just think that this is gaslighting. I think that she knew very well exactly the trend that she was capitalizing on. And now that we have books like yesteryear saying that this is problematic,

she's like, no, no, no, no. What? that was never me. That was never me. It was. Maybe you didn't mean for it to be or maybe you now don't want it to be, but that that is like that that is what you were doing and that is what you were playing upon. This is her first viral video, 2023. We'll do a voiceover. It's voiceover three. And just to kind of show you, she dresses up in these very fancy clothes and makes these things from scratch. And like, I think part of it is maybe supposed to be funny because sometimes they're like ridiculous things or things like that no one ever makes from scratch. Again, I do think it's

totally impressive. But I just immediately was like really of all podcast. I think it's the combination for me of call her daddy and what she said. It's not just that she was like, oh, no, I've like never considered myself that. That's okay, whatever. It is that you went on the sex podcast, the most disgusting and degrading sex podcast that exists that seems to be opposed to so much of what you represent online. And I just think it was a way to kind of like spit on her audience. I don't like it. Someone says, I thought that this was a good comment. Why do we not get this voice and this attitude in her videos? Exactly. Because she's talking like this and there is similar our voice, which I literally love. That's part of why I can't follow things like this.

I don't want people to whisper to me. I don't want it. I want you to speak. I want to be able to hear you. It creeps me out. I feel like you're trying to like come up behind me and like sneak on me. You're made from scratch blueberry muffins. I don't want it. I don't want it. And so I think it's just a weird juxtaposition for people. And she had so many people, especially Christians, like rooting for her when she talks about the diagnosis of her child with cancer, which still 100% pray for her. That is awful. No one is taking that away. And like the seriousness of that and needing to pray for that 100%. I think people just felt a little bit taken aback and surprised. So that's just a collab I didn't like. You can hate all you want on that opinion.

I didn't like. Okay. Let's do a voicemail or two and then we'll get out. of here and we'll be back here on Wednesday. Let me tell you about our last sponsor. It's PatriotMobile. PatriotMobile.com slash Ali. Promocode, Ali, we'll get you a whole free month of service. This is America's Christian conservative wireless provider. If you don't want your dollars going toward companies that hate you and hate your values, then why don't you go ahead and switch to Patriot Mobile. It's going to be super convenient. They have a 100% based US customer service team. Most of these cell providers cannot give you that. That is. for sure. And they can make sure that you have high quality service. You're not going to compromise

on that. You can keep your phone or you can upgrade your phone. They are fighting for things like the sanctity of life, first and second amendment. They're supporting veterans and first responders. So get great service while also supporting causes that you actually believe in. Go to patriotmobile.com slash alley. Use code alley for a free month of service. Patriot mobile.com slash alley code Ali. Let's do the second question. It's a parenting question, and it's about first-time obedience and whether or not that's a realistic expectation. Let's play that. Hi, Allie. I was wondering what your thoughts were on first-time obedience. Obey right away, all the way with a happy heart. It's something my husband and I disagree on somewhat. I think my fear is that I've seen it abused,

and taken way too far. And so it's kind of hard to want to implement that with my kids to the fullest extent of that ideology plash mantra. So I was wondering what your take was on it, if you agree somewhat, if you agree completely, or if you even completely disagreed. Okay, thank you so much. This is somewhat of a debate online.

You see people say, yes, 100%, we should be encouraging this in our kids. and then you see the other side that's pushing back and they're like, no, that's impossible. It's not even developmentally possible for a three-year-old to be able to obey right away because they're processing things. It's not always disobedience. And look, I do think that you intuitively understand your child, a child who is, say, super concentrated on their magnetiles.

You know that they are building that with every single care and fiber of their being and so much of their focus. And you tell them, hey, you need to go get your shoes on because you're leaving. they don't even act like they hear you. They are so focused on this. Okay, in that moment, for me, I'm thinking about one of my children, all of my children are different, all children are different. I would know in that particular case, it's not disobedience. She is not hearing me and saying, I don't want to listen to mommy. I don't want to obey. She might not have even heard me in that moment because I know how much she cares about that castle that she is making with her magnets. So that is up to me to figure out, okay, how can I communicate in a way that is effective that

she can hear me? So I am giving her the opportunity to hear and obey. Once I've done that, whatever it is, whether it's, hey, you warned her, locked eyes with her two minutes before and said, hey, we've got to go in two minutes. In two minutes, you're going to hear me talk to you. And I'm going to tell you that it's time to be done with building the castle and I'm going to go get your shoes on. And that's your opportunity to obey, whatever it is. Or, whether it's getting down at her eyesight and saying, hey, I know that you're working on this right now. We're going to have time to do this later right now. I need you to go get your, get your shoes on. Yes, ma'am, whatever it is. I think ensuring effective communication first.

And I think in the beginning, that might take a while, that might take extra communication, that might take extra warnings, that might take, like, figuring out the strategies that work, ensuring effective communication and actual hearing from your child. And then from there, that is where the immediate obedience comes in. I say yes, unequivocally, the goal should be right away all the way with a happy heart. I don't think that there should be any discussion or debate about whether or not that is the goal for children. Whether or not you decide to instill a consequence right away for when a child doesn't do that before you've even taught them, before you've even like looked at strategies for like how to communicate to them.

I mean, that's up to you. I think in every parenting decision, you need to assess yourself first. Are you communicating effectively? Do you have self-control? Are you planning your day wisely? Or are you in a flurry because you're in a hurry and because you haven't planned? well and you're like, get up, get up, get up, get up, stop. You need to go put your shoes on. And then you start yelling at them because they didn't do it right away when you haven't even given them

five seconds to realize what's going on. That's not a child obedience problem. That's a parent problem. That's a lack of parent discipline problem. And I don't think your child should have to pay the consequence for that. So effective communication, come up with strategies to make sure they can hear you, pay attention to you from their obedience is what matters. And yes, it should be right away with a happy heart. And the reason for that is not some just, like just control. It is so that in those situations where obedience is dire, obedience is extremely necessary, your child knows to trust you and to do it. Okay, because when you're telling your child, hey, you need to get out of the road, hey, don't go chase that ball. The last thing you want them to do is to learn that they don't have to

listen to you the first time, that they can keep going. They can wait 10 seconds. They can wait until you count to 10. They can turn around and be like, wait, why? Why are we getting in the car? Why are we doing that? Mommy, I don't want to. No, they have to learn from a very early age that what mom and dad says goes. And when you hear it, when it registers to you, you need to do it. And yeah, of course, when that doesn't happen, just like with any other form of disobedience, there have to be ramifications for that. I mean, Hebrews talks about like God disciplines us because he loves us and the discipline is to like work out things in our heart. That doesn't have to be harsh.

It doesn't have to be mean. It shouldn't involve yelling. It doesn't have to be out of control. We are called to have a spirit of self control even in parenting and how we disciple and discipline our kids. So yeah, that's my kind of multifaceted answer for that and the precursor that I would put before that immediate obedience. But yes, I do believe that is the Christian parents goal.

All right. That's all we got time for today. We will be back here on Wednesday.