Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1396 | You Don’t Have “Mom Rage;” You’re Just Sinning

Starting point is 00:00:00 Postpartum rage is not a diagnosis. Do you really have postpartum rage? Or are you just overwhelmed with busyness? That is not postpartum rage. That is life. That is just what happens to a fallible human when we have a lot going on and we don't have a lot of sleep. Putting the word postpartum before any difficult emotion or any difficulty that we experience almost justifies all of our feelings. I just want you to consider whether you really have postpartum rage or whether you are just struggling with the sin of anger. Hey, y'all, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. All right, we got a lot to get to today. So I'm just going to jump right into it. This term postpartum rage or mom rage or overstimulated or touched out.

Starting point is 00:01:03 All of these terms, all of these words are used to describe this kind of. of heightened aggravation that moms feel due to domestic demands and demands of life in general. Children who need attention, you've got husbands who want affection. Plus, you have all of life's other obligations. And all of this combined surpasses some women's tolerance threshold. And the overwhelm then translates into anger and bitterness. This is a description that we see a lot, especially online when it comes to motherhood. And the question is, for all of these words specifically, are they real diagnoses? Are these genuine, understandable, physiological responses to motherhood? Or are they, like so many other terms in our therapy-laden culture,

Starting point is 00:01:50 pathological excuses for sin? These are questions that I've been thinking about over the last few weeks, especially in light of this Lindsay Clancy case, because the plight of mothers, especially postpartum, has taken sinner stage. The case, as many of you have, you know if you've been following along listening to this podcast for the past several weeks, it ended in a mistrial after a lone juror refused to assent to the conclusion that Clancy was not guilty by reason of insanity. Now, something I want to take a deeper look at is how Clancy herself looked at motherhood and how we as a culture looked at or look at and talk about motherhood in a photo that has been circulating of what appears to be Lindsay Clancy's nightstand next to

Starting point is 00:02:37 a bloody knife, Clancy had a wine glass that said, because kids. And in a Facebook group, you probably remember, she described her middle child, a toddler, as one of the most difficult humans that she had ever met. Now, some people would argue and did argue when I talked about this on Instagram that these things are totally separate. They're completely irrelevant to this case. I got messages saying things like, these are the cries of a woman who needed help. This is her trying to be honest and vulnerable, asking people for advice. But even, if we do separate these statements, that wine glass from Lindsay's guilt, which to me seems kind of absurd in light of the fact that she admitted on multiple occasions to killing her children,

Starting point is 00:03:17 the question remains, is this a healthy way to think about motherhood or to talk about our children or to seek advice from others? No, this kind of attitude is not always going to lead to violence most times. It won't lead to violence or to murdering or mistreating your children, but it's still worth asking, is this a healthy culture and a healthy conversation that we have created about the so-called burden of being a mom? This overwhelming empathy for Lindsay online from mothers who exclaim, same Lindsay as they relate to the apparent feelings of desperation that Lindsay felt taking care of her kids is at the very least a reason for pause. Christian women should not see content like that and simply nod our heads knowingly and move along. We have to

Starting point is 00:04:04 be thoughtful in all things, but especially when it comes to the treatment of children. We should be thoughtful and we should ask, what is the difference between healthy motherhood and unhealthy motherhood? Is this kind of content, this speech, this attitude honoring to the Lord? Is it nurturing to my kids? Is it helpful to me? Is it edifying to others? And really importantly, is it true? Is this true? Now, for me, as someone who has written about and spoken against the dangers of what many years ago I dubbed toxic mommy culture, this whole thing has caused me to take an even deeper look into the language that is used around women's emotions, especially when it comes to postpartum.

Starting point is 00:04:45 I've had three kids, we've got another on the way. I know very, very well, the real emotions, the overwhelm that can come with these seasons. But how motherhood and womanhood are discussed online makes it seem like these emotions and the actions that flow from those emotions are completely uncontrollable to the point where our agency is totally removed. Now, how do I square that mentality, that assessment of women in the postpartum era with 2 Timothy 1.7, which tells me that God is given me as a Christian, a spirit of love and of self-control. How do I square that with Romans 8,6, which tells me that God gave me as a Christian, not a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but one of a daughter

Starting point is 00:05:30 who gets to call on the creator of the universe is my father. Like, is the Holy Spirit really snuffed out by lower progesterone or fluctuating estrogen or sleeplessness? Is God's power not perfected in my weakness? Like, these are questions that I think Christian women are obligated to ask when it comes to how the culture talks about our emotions and talks about postpartum and motherhood. to believe that the difficulty of postpartum is a justification for rage, bitterness, or even violence is for us to deny the power of the gospel in our lives and deny the power of the spirit to rule our body.

Starting point is 00:06:09 And then some will say, I've seen this, and I think this is a well-intentioned response to the toxicity that we've seen, the negativity that we've seen online about children and child rearing, they'll say, okay, well, to combat that, we just need to talk about how, easy and fun and joyful motherhood can be. And that is true. It can be all of those things. And I think

Starting point is 00:06:30 it's great to talk about the joys and the ease and the fun of motherhood. But I don't think that is the answer. I don't think that is the key antidote to toxic mommy culture. Because hormones and sleeplessness and overwhelm and physical pain, they're very real. They're part of living as humans, part of being finite, part of a fallen world, even in some ways part of Eve's unique curse. And I think part of human nature is to seek to alleviate pain. Some women are seeking that alleviation through SSRIs, through commiseration online, but we Christians know better, that there is a better source of satisfaction and healing than what we see on social media or even what we can get in a psychiatrist's office.

Starting point is 00:07:17 So how do we as Christians navigate this? world of toxic mommy culture as thoughtful people, elevating the truth of the gospel without minimizing the challenges of living in a world that is tainted by sin and all of its effects. And so that's the first topic that I want to explore today, both on my own and with a very wise guest, Audrey Brogey, she's a mom of five. She's a grandmother of 17 and she is a mentor to thousands and thousands of women over the years as a pastor's wife, as someone who has written Bible studies, who has led Bible studies, who's spoken to so many women about how to mother and how to be a wife in a way that is biblical, that is lovely, that is joyful, even when it's

Starting point is 00:07:59 difficult. And she's really going to set us straight when it comes to how Christian women mother well. A tough love given in the most gracious way. That really encouraged me. I know it's going to encourage you too. She'll also be a share of the arrows speaker with her daughter, Grace Anna. And today is just going to be a taste of what you'll hear from them on October 10th. And then after we talk to Audrey, we're going to look at the lone holdout juror in the Lindsay Clancy trial. The media's treatment of him, the concern we should all have about what the aftermath of the mistrial means for justice in our country. What does it mean when it comes to how we look at truth and morality and responsibility, all of these things that affect not only us, but affect our children,

Starting point is 00:08:46 and grandchildren who will live in this country and also be subject to our justice system. That really matters. Now, before we get into the first topic of toxic mommy culture and how we can reassess some of this terminology, like postpartum rage and touched out and all of these things that seem to justify so much anger and bitterness, I want to pause and tell you, and invite you actually to share the arrows, share the arrows October 10th, Dallas, Texas. It's only for women. If you are a Christian woman, maybe you've been a Christian woman for 45 years. Maybe you are just curious about Christianity and you want to learn more about it.

Starting point is 00:09:26 Maybe you've never stepped foot inside a church and you just want to know more. Like, what does the Bible say about all the craziness that's going on in the world? You're looking for a respite from the chaos and the confusion. You will find clarity through the Word of God, through the teachers at Share the Arrows. We've got Elisa Childers. We've got Natasha Crane. We've got Rosario Butterfield, Kostihan. Audrey Brogey, Graceana Castleberry, Shane and Shane will be leading us in worship.

Starting point is 00:09:49 Share the Arrows this year is brought to by our friends at Range Leather. If you use my code Alley 20, you'll get 20% off. That's share the arrows.com. And before we get into the rest of the episode, let me tell you about a new sponsor. This is a company called Puri. And they make lots of stuff, but one of the things that I have tried and just loved is the protein powder. It is grass-fed way.

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Starting point is 00:11:19 You'll get a free shaker worth $30 on your first subscription. You'll also get 32% off the grass-fed way. Go to puri.com slash alley. So what am I talking about when I'm talking about toxic mommy culture? Am I just exaggerating this? There are so many examples of this all over Instagram and TikTok moms calling their kids brats, berating their children, doing, social media content for laughs that makes their kids cry.

Starting point is 00:11:53 You probably remember that trend of moms like cracking eggs. They like their child thinks that, oh, I get to bake with mommy. This is so fun. She sets up a camera. And then instead of cracking the egg on the side of the bowl, she cracks the egg on their forehead. And these little kids,

Starting point is 00:12:10 I mean, they're little. They're two and three years old. They're shocked. And they start crying. And the mom starts laughing. And people are like, oh, you're just too sensitive.

Starting point is 00:12:19 you care about that, you know, too much. The kids are fine. Well, it's not that I think that the kids have a concussion. It's not that I think that they're going to be permanently scarred physically or emotionally forever, but it is mean. I cannot imagine. I have a three-year-old. I cannot imagine doing something to intentionally hurt and embarrass her and then

Starting point is 00:12:39 posting it, editing that and then posting it. I mean, what it speaks to is just a hardness of heart and a narcissism that I think is actually driving a lot of rage in anxiety and moms, not the kids themselves. But then there's also content kidding or not of moms posting their children, trying to just be affectionate to them or laying on them and then expressing just outright annoyance about that. Here's a montage of that. So, seven.

Starting point is 00:13:10 So this says when your only son that you don't like tries to lay down on you. This is a little bitty baby, like just a few months. to old. Do not have children. Do not do it to yourself. The rage I have inside of me. The depression and the wanting to I have inside of me. They are a parasite and that means that they will not only suck every thing of your energy, but they will also suck every ounce of your soul from your body. And then here you have a mom. She's driving. Her son is like playing with the fat on her arm. And then you see the boy being forced to sprint. This is like probably four years old.

Starting point is 00:13:53 Sprint to catch up with the car. He looks genuinely distressed. She starts driving faster. She's filming him. He starts crying. By the way, I guarantee this entire thing was set up. She probably told her son to start doing that to her arm just because she saw this on social media and she thought that it would make funny content.

Starting point is 00:14:12 This probably wasn't even a spontaneous thing. Also, who cares? Who cares? if your child is like making fun of the fact that you have fat on your arms. Like, who cares? That's not actually something to be offended by. Do you know, like, if I were offended by the things that my kids said about me while I am in my third trimester pregnant, like, I would be offended constantly.

Starting point is 00:14:37 They just call me big belly mommy. That's just like what they, that's like my nickname now. And so if I were to actually be offended by the things. that they say to me, I would be better all the time. But this kind of thing is monetized. It's commercialized at the expensive children. Some might see it as just like sarcastic, dark humor, kids need to toughen up. But never before have kids been publicly exploited in this way for clicks. Like no other generation has had to deal with this form of a public humiliation ritual that kids are having to endure from the very people that they're,

Starting point is 00:15:16 they were created to trust and to rely on for their care. So it's this kind of culture that desensitizes us to true child abuse, that desensitizes us to the degradation and the objectification of children that makes us bitter about motherhood as some kind of burden rather than a blessing. And I even think it infects some well-meaning moms, some Christian moms who have adopted some of these terms that I see on social media, like postpartum rage. Like I hear this. Like I just have postpartum rage or people will say they have postpartum anxiety or postpartum depression. And postpartum depression is a real diagnosis. Postpartum anxiety is a real diagnosis that you can have in the weeks, days, and sometimes months after you have baby. And it might

Starting point is 00:16:10 just be more than changing emotions, it might actually be this deep, dark, emotional pit that you are in, that you are trying very hard to get out of and can't. So I am not negating that reality, but I think so often, it's not that you have some pathological problem. It's not that you have some medical diagnosis. Like, you're just tired. You just have a lot going on. Postpartum rage, by the way, is not a diagnosis. Do you really have postpartum rage? Or are you just overwhelmed with busyness? Did you just get four hours of sleep last night? Do you just have like a lot going on with just having a baby and having to take care of two toddlers? That is not postpartum rage. That is life. Like that's not being touched out or being overstimulated or having some kind of medical diagnosis.

Starting point is 00:17:04 that is just what happens to a fallible human when we have a lot going on and we don't have a lot of sleep. And I think putting the word postpartum before any difficult emotion or any difficulty that we experience almost justifies all of our feelings. It justifies the bitterness and anger and the malice and the resentment that we are told to put away by the word of God. And suddenly it's excused because it's just postpartum. And so I just want you to consider whether you really have postpartum, blank, like postpartum rage, or whether you are just struggling with the sin of anger. And another question that we won't see on social media, are you doing everything that you

Starting point is 00:17:55 can to mitigate that? I think that we have this idea that when you're postpartum, you have no. no control. You don't have control over your emotions. You don't have control over your body. And some things, some bodily functions postpartum, you don't have control over you. That's true. I'm not talking about that. But you don't have any control over your flesh at all. That there's nothing that you can do to mitigate these negative feelings. I just don't think that's true. I was just talking to a friend the other day about this idea that, oh, I just have like this postpartum, anger, in rage, it's like, okay, yeah, but actually you're just angry because you're waking up earlier

Starting point is 00:18:34 than you want to and you feel overwhelmed as soon as you wake up. What if you change your morning routine? Are you in the Word of God? Are you listening to worship music? Are you saturated in prayer? Are you asking for help spiritually, emotionally, physically from the people who can help you who are willing to help you? That's not to say that those feelings don't come from a real place or don't have a real source, but don't pathologize them to excuse sin. That's the point. I think sometimes women really just need to hear tough love. Yes, motherhood can be hard. Postpartum can be hard, especially if you have it a difficult birth. Like if you had a traumatic birth and your body is healing and you are going through a lot of pain, that can very deeply affect your mental,

Starting point is 00:19:24 your mental stability. Absolutely. But I remember a guest a couple years ago that I had on the show, he said something that just stopped me in my tracks and made me think so differently about just how our mental state can affect what we do. And he said, your body can't make you sin. Your body can't make you sin because we're indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Nothing is too hard for God. Like we were given, as we said earlier, a spirit of power and of self-control, that is not hindered by what our hormones are up to. That's not hindered by our sleeplessness. That doesn't mean that those things aren't difficult. It just means that our reliance on the Lord needs to increase. It doesn't change what we are called to. Joy, love, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, self-control.

Starting point is 00:20:17 Postpartum is not like an excuse period for sin and for bitterness and for anger. And I think many times we're convinced that it is. And I just wonder if women took more responsibility for our emotions and our actions, even in those vulnerable moments, if we would actually be better off. Are you contributing to the edification or the degradation of motherhood and motherhood culture? Because the attitude that's out there, that all is justified in postpartum, all manner of rage and violence and anger and whatever it is postpartum, when that attitude saturates our culture, it becomes much easier for people to look at a woman who murdered her children and say, well, yeah, she snapped. Motherhood is just hard. Kids are just really hard.

Starting point is 00:21:08 And the system failed her and the SSRIs and her husband and her parents and the nanny and her job and American. feminism and capitalism and capitalism and all of these different things. The patriarchy, everything just failed her rather than saying, no, no, no, whatever you think about these other factors here, whatever you think about those things, the truth is, is that she made a decision. And being postpartum and even having the difficulty of the emotions that come with being postpartum do not alleviate our responsibility as sinners in our need to rely on the Lord to help us not sin, to sanctify us and to strengthen us. That's why I wrote that book.

Starting point is 00:21:51 You're not enough and that's okay. Escaping the toxic culture of self-love. That's where I started really writing about toxic mommy culture. Because ironically, like within toxic mommy culture, you see so much about self-love and self-focused and self-fulfillment and all of these things promise to liberate you. Do those women that we just played you on TikTok, do they seem liberated? No.

Starting point is 00:22:14 They're trapped by the God of Self. they are bearing this really heavy burden, this really difficult yoke of serving themselves and believing that they deserve a frictionless, happy life. And kids don't lead to a frictionless life. They don't lead to a convenient life. That is absolutely true. And if your priority is being comfortable and being convenient and being happy, then yeah, motherhood is going to have a rude awakening.

Starting point is 00:22:41 But as Christians, we know that that's not our purpose. purpose is to glorify God, to love other people, to be holy, to be made holy, to be sanctified takes difficulty and there's joy found in that rather than just in ease. So our mentality and our words, in our agency and all of that should be completely different as Christian women than what we see in the world. That's not a denial of the difficulty. That's not just smiling and pretending like nothing is wrong or never asking for help. It is saying, yes, I do need help. And that is not going to be found in complaining online that is going to be found in my savior who promises that his power is perfected in my weakness. Now, this culture that has been created, this toxic

Starting point is 00:23:27 comami culture is not without its victims. It's not without its very real consequences. Yes, we see Lindsay Clancy, the online reaction to that. But then you have these copycat stories. You've got a woman in Illinois, prosecutors say a mother who is closely following Clancy's trial. went to kill her own child. This just happened a few weeks ago. I don't even want to get into all the details of this. I had to delete my ex app on my phone, y'all, because after talking about the Lindsay Clancy case and reading about it so much, that was my entire timeline of women complaining about motherhood, complaining about their kids, mistreating their kids online. And then stories like this, this woman, Corey Walsh, who killed her two-year-old son after becoming super invested in the

Starting point is 00:24:09 Lindsay Clancy trial. I don't even want to talk about how she murdered this precious little two-year-old boy. And I just, I couldn't look at it anymore because it just is so sad, like the spirit of darkness that lives in so many people, male and female, but we're seen in a very special, particular, and also archaic, almost tail as old as time way among women who are sacrificing their children on the altar of the god of self. And then, of course, we have the removal of women's agency in cases like the 22-year-old, Demone Fleming. She killed her three-year-old and 11-month-old sons back in 2022, but only a few weeks ago, the Bronx judge on the case found her not responsible by reason of mental disease or de-fact calling this postpartum psychosis.

Starting point is 00:24:56 Again, she was 11 months postpartum. That is outside the window that the DSM-5 says you can even have postpartum psychosis. And so, again, we're just using this term postpartum to justify all manner of sin, and let it not be so for Christian women. Let it not be so for us. Let us not contribute to this toxic mommy culture even one bit. If you need help, seek help. If you need wisdom, seek wisdom. If you need advice, if you need to vent to someone with the purpose of being edified and equipped, then go do that at your local body at church to an older female mentor. That's the healthy way to do it. And right now, thankfully, we have this amazing woman mentor who is on the show and she's going to, like I said, set us straight when it comes to motherhood. How do we approach it

Starting point is 00:25:51 in a way that honors God nourishes our children and edifies others? I can't wait for you to hear what Audrey Brogey has to say. Before we get into that conversation, let me tell you about our next sponsor. And that is Holy Pals. Holy Pals is amazing. They make these pajamas. for the whole family, especially for kids, for babies, they just make the cutest stuff. They make blankets that are so soft, so breathable. They're so luxurious. But the best part is that they depict Bible stories. They depict the Word of God.

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Starting point is 00:27:01 here in November will also be wearing holy pals. Go to Holy. A Holy Pals.com slash Allie. Use code Alley 26 for 15% off. Holy Pals.com slash Alley, code Alley 26. Audrey, thanks so much for taking the time to join us. So excited and honored to have you and Grace Anna at Share the Arrow's. And I understand you just welcomed grandchild number 17. That is correct. That is correct.

Starting point is 00:27:34 Number 17. And you know what? Every single time is just as thrilling as the last one. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. What an incredible blessing. Okay, you and Grace Anna will be talking about motherhood, being a wife and mom, and just the joy and the difficulty in that and how we do that in godly ways. And this is against kind of a backdrop of something that maybe has been happening forever,

Starting point is 00:27:58 but because of social media has become more popular. And that's what I call toxic mommy culture. And it's this trend of not just saying that things are hard, but really harping on your kids and how burdensome being a mom is, especially with the Lindsay Clancy trial, we even saw moms posting on social media like same Lindsay, which is very scary, but basically saying, yeah, I kind of have that murderous rage about motherhood too. So tell us where do you think that is coming from and how do we as Christian women combat that? Well, one of the things that I think it comes from is just the more a culture drifts away from the truth of God's word,

Starting point is 00:28:41 the more there's rejection of what the word of God says, the more we see the worst of our sin nature come out. And even when we think it won't happen to mothers, because we have that natural God-given instinct to love and protect our children. But when we are left to our own way, when we abandon the Lord, we see the full expression of our sin nature. And for everyone, it doesn't go as extreme as what we're seeing today, but it's a progression. It begins that way. That's what I think. And even in my, you know, when I was younger and my children were young, there was still a lot of even Christian women doing exactly what you just said, who were constantly complaining about their children. And I know I didn't want to do that. Motherhood is hard. We can all agree to that.

Starting point is 00:29:25 There's stresses. There's times we feel worn out, burned out when we're, you know, we're just over the top. But I also believe that when, and I'm talking about Christian women now, when we're taught the Word of God, when we're giving God's perspective on it, it changes everything. It's like when you get up in the trees and you look down and you see the big picture, it changes your perspective. And one of the things I've said so many times over the years, and I said it to myself, perspective makes all the difference in the world. And I think that's true.

Starting point is 00:29:57 And that's one of the reasons that I spend so much time, you know, talking to young women about this, wanting to help them with the perspective. and to know that God sees it, God knows it, and yet he's entrusted it to you. And I always go back to marry the mother of Jesus. And I think that was an entrustment he gave to a fallen human woman to raise the savior of the world. And it's not a nothing job. And so sometimes when you can get that perspective, it changes the way you view the hard moments. At least it did for me.

Starting point is 00:30:33 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There's a woman who might be listening to this right now in this moment. And she's taking a moment to listen to this podcast, maybe during nap time or on the way to school pick up. And she's like, okay, Audrey, well, I am in the trenches right now. I've got maybe it's not only the normal everydayness of having little children. Maybe she's got a child with special needs.

Starting point is 00:30:57 Maybe she's a single mom. She's a widow. There are so many situations that someone could be listening to this and saying, okay, but what's the perspective for me? So if you're talking to that mom who just feels like she is in the midst of a lot of hardship, what do you say to her? Well, I tell her that God knows that. You know, God knows that life is hard.

Starting point is 00:31:18 The general principle for all of life is that it's hard. You know, that we all have hard times in our lives. And God wants to use those hard times to mold us and shape us and sanctify us. And again, it comes back to the perspective of God's word and making sure that we are filling our tanks up in the mornings that we are, you know, I tell women all the time before your feet hit the floor in the morning. And it could be that you're nursing a baby, you know, in that early morning time. But before your feet, when you first open your eyes, if you go ahead and give your day to the Lord, say, Lord, I don't know what you're going to, what you have for me today. I don't know what

Starting point is 00:31:52 struggles I'm going to face with a disobedient child. I don't know what I'm going to face with a baby that won't stop crying. I don't know, but you know. And I want to give you my day. And I want to walk by the spirit so that I don't carry out the desires of the flesh, as Galatian says. So fill me with your Holy Spirit and help me to make those choices moment by moment because it comes back to you. We do have to live moment by moment. I send that encouraging. There's an encouraging song that I love.

Starting point is 00:32:22 It's called Grace for the Moment, all that I need. And I listen to it all the time when I was a young mom because God always reminded me that we need grace for the moment. we think, oh, I want to have a great day. Well, no, how do you have a great day? When I say great, I don't mean that everything is going, you know, perfectly. I just mean a great day in terms of trusting God and not denying the hardships, you know, because we don't do that. It's hard. That's hard. But at the same time, it's like, well, I can, I want to trust you, Lord, with my day. I want to trust you, Lord, with my hour. I want to trust you, Lord, for the next 10 minutes. I want to trust you, Lord,

Starting point is 00:32:59 for the next second. And it comes back to that hard attitude toward the Lord and trusting him that he's going to meet us in those hard moments and show us what the next thing is that we need to do. So, or to trust him with. Yes. You know, everything that you're saying reminds me of the story that I learned about the hymn, I need the every hour, which is another way to say, Grace for the moment. And the author, for those who don't know out there, Annie Hawks, she wrote this. This is in the late 19th century in the 1800s. She said one day, as a young wife and mother of 37 years of age, I was busy with my regular household tasks during a bright June morning in 1872. Suddenly, I became so filled with the sense of nearness

Starting point is 00:33:48 to the master that wondering how one could live without him, either in joy or pain, these words were ushered into my mind, the thought at once taking full possession of me, I need the every hour. I think that so many women think of motherhood as mundane or small or when you think about it, not from the perspective that you're talking about from the trees, but down in it, well, this is just another dirty diaper. This is just another meal. This is just another dish that I have to clean. This is just another fight that I have to break up between siblings. We don't think about actually, in this moment, I need God's great. I need God's presence just as much, maybe in a different way than the soldier who's in war,

Starting point is 00:34:36 or the persecuted Christian who is taking a big risk for their faith. We as moms, I think, have this way of minimizing the importance of what we do so that we are not led to the throne of God to ask for his help, even in the moments that seem very small. You know, and what you just said, it brought to my mind when you said the person in the trenches or we're raising those people. You know, they started out as little babies in our arms. They started out, like you think of Timothy, when Paul says, you know, the sincere faith that was first in your mother and your grandmother.

Starting point is 00:35:12 And from childhood you've known the Holy Scriptures, they took that role seriously in the life of their little boy. And they molded him and shaped him so that he would be ready for Paul says, hey, I want that. I want him. You know, he was ready because, And God had a great task for him to do. And the great task that Lois and Eunice had was just as great in terms of what they instilled and what they were bringing up.

Starting point is 00:35:37 And that's another thing to grab hold up because I think sometimes, and it was true in my generation. And it's true even more now, I think because of social media and all the comparison things. But we tend to want to grab hold to what's easy for me. And I'm not saying that we don't need to take care of ourselves. we should so we can do what God's called us to do. That's why we take care of ourselves. But to forget, it's not just about, oh, so I can spend more time scrolling on my phone. Or I want the children just to be quiet so I can do this or do that. But no, this is the trenches. And I remember one time when one of my children was young. And he was, now I said he, but I have four boys,

Starting point is 00:36:19 so they're nameless. But he's having such a bad day. I always like to be careful with. say about my kids. But he was having such a bad day. And it seemed like all I was doing that day was working on obedience. And I remember thinking in my head, I was so frustrated. And I remember thinking, you know, there's so many other things we need to do today. And I just need to get this behind us. And I remember I was sitting in a chair holding him. And, you know, and he wasn't liking that. But I just asked the Lord for his grace. And I just remember feeling over. overwhelmed with it was that there was nothing else more important than I needed to do that day than deal with his child, than deal with him biblically. That it was, he wasn't keeping me

Starting point is 00:37:08 from doing what the other things. This was part of the training because he has a sin nature. I have a sin nature. And when you have a lot of sin natures living in the house, you have a lot of conflict. But that's part of the sanctification process. So it wasn't a matter, I mean, God just impressed it on me. It wasn't so much scripture that he brought to my. mind, but just impressed upon me how important this was to get this under control with this child and this was part of not only my job toward him, but God's job in my own life. So I never forgot it. I don't even forget it to this day when I'm trying to, you know, when young moms are reaching out to me and saying, it's just terrible. This child's disobedient all the time. Like, yeah,

Starting point is 00:37:48 because there's that sin nature and that's, you know, so I try and I encourage them. I don't mean I just say, Oh, yeah. But still, it's that perspective again that God is sanctifying us, sanctifying my child helping me with his disobedience, but also helping me in that as well. Okay, quick pause from that amazing conversation to tell you about my next sponsor, and it's Adele Natural Cosmetics. Y'all, I love Adele. I just used their essential moisturizing serum this morning.

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Starting point is 00:39:40 Maybe that's the bigger task. And it makes me think of Jesus and his disciples so many times we read in the gospels that on their way to doing one thing, and it was a good thing what they were doing. They were probably going to do more ministry, but they stopped. And they healed the manner, dealt with the person that was in front of them, even in the parable of the Good Samaritan. They were all on their way to doing something. And it was only the Samaritan that said, you know what, this thing that's on my way,

Starting point is 00:40:06 that is an interruption. It is an inconvenience, but it's more important, actually, than me continuing my journey. And I'm so glad that she reminded me of that because that is, that is something that I think, especially when our kids are little and my kids are little, that we have to remind ourselves every day that, like, no, this actually is the most important, the most important work right now. Like, I can stop doing what I'm doing. Yeah, go ahead. I love that because I immediately thought of the hemorrhaging woman, you know,

Starting point is 00:40:35 Jarrett's daughter. And, you know, and they're on their way. They're on their way because he's, he's going to die. I mean, Jaris' daughter. I'm saying, and then the hemorrhaging woman comes and, you know, he takes care of that. But then he goes on and God is always up to something. He's always up to something. But that just reminded me of that in Mark's Gospel, because it's just what you said,

Starting point is 00:40:56 you know, that it's not like, we're not. stopping the work by stopping to deal with this. This is the work. This is part of the work, I guess I should say it. Yeah, I love that. Yes. No, but that's such a good, I'm glad that you brought up that specific example because, again, what Jesus was going to do was good and urgent. It was good and urgent. And yet, he looked at what was in front of him and saw the opportunity to heal someone and glorify God. And I think you're right. If we see motherhood and even those really tough moments as that, that this is a task assigned to me by the God of the universe, then nothing is mundane in motherhood. That's right. That's right. And God is not unjust to forget

Starting point is 00:41:42 the works that you do, just the sacrifice that you do for your children. Even if they don't see it and they don't appreciate it and whatever, however you want to feel in that blank, God sees it. And we do for him. We raised these children for him. We take care of them. Because just imagine, once again, I always think about Mary the mother of Jesus because I think God entrusted her with the Savior. And for her to be, if she lived in these modern days, to think, oh, yeah, this is more important. That's more important. This is more important. No, she just said, even, you know, be it done to me according to your word. And I'm sure she carried that whole philosophy as she raised the Savior. and I'm sure with her other children as well of seeing how important this is.

Starting point is 00:42:25 Yeah, just to keep that mindset, you know, that we're doing it. But that doesn't erase that it's hard. There are times where we're just like, I don't know what else to do. And one of the things I, another little thing that I will say to young moms and God helped me with when I was little is no one needs to be upset but the baby. You know, God helped me with that too because sometimes one of the most stressful times is they're upset. having the tantrum, they're screaming, they're this. Okay, that's them. They need the calmness. And we have to ask God to help us develop that. Because, you know, you think about our, the Lord, he's not, if we're screaming and having a temper tantrum ourselves, but we're so upset,

Starting point is 00:43:07 he's not upset about that. You know, he's still a strong tower. And that's what have to be for our children. And that's something that we as finite human beings and mothers have to learn. No one needs to be upset right now, but the baby. And I'm going to do my best to walk with the Lord through this. Oh, that is really good because definitely Satan can use those stressful moments, those late night newborn crying hours to then cause tension between the husband and the wife to make you feel like you're competing against one another rather than on

Starting point is 00:43:46 the same team. Tension between siblings, tension between the mom and the sibling. And suddenly everyone's lost any self-control and any authority over the situation. So gosh, that is such, such a good reminder. No one has to be upset because of your children. And your children's emotions are not the boss of your emotions. That is so important. That's right.

Starting point is 00:44:11 And it takes time when I say that. It's not an easy thing. I mean, these are qualities that the Lord has to build in us, that we have to trust him to make a reality in our lives. But he's faithful to do it. You know, he's so near. He says, draw near, near. I mean, the scripture says, draw near to God and he will draw near to you. I think sometimes we just forget how near he is.

Starting point is 00:44:32 We think we talk about it in our own minds. We talk about it to other women. We journal about it and how frustrated we are. But God is so near, and he wants us to take those things to him. And I know even now in my own life, God, so always reminding me of that. Always reminding me in terms, I don't have to go into detail, but I'm just saying just in my own life, he's near and he wants me to call out to him for help. He's attracted to us being weak, you know, in terms of, I don't know what else to do.

Starting point is 00:45:04 It's like, you know, in King Solomon and he prays and he just says, I just need wisdom. I'm like a little child. I don't know how to go in or I don't know how to go out. I need wisdom. And God was so pleased with that prayer, that prayer of humility. And so often as moms, we say, I have all these children. And I'm just like a kid myself. I don't know what to do.

Starting point is 00:45:25 I need your help. And God will come to our aid. He'll come to our rescue. You know, yeah, we have a God like that. We have a God like that. Yes. Amen. Amen.

Starting point is 00:45:38 Audrey, this was so good and so encouraging. I could just keep on asking you quick. questions is my personal encourager for the day. But I am so excited to hear from you, even more as Share the Arrow's with Grace Anna and her amazing perspective too. Audrey, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. Well, thank you, Allie. It's so good to be with you. All right. Before we get into the jury part of this and the doxying of this loan juror and what it means for our justice system, I want to tell you about our next sponsor. It's another pro-life sponsor, and it's seven weeks coffee.

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Starting point is 00:47:15 said, I'm not so sure about this whole not guilty for reason of insanity thing. And he is the cause of the mistrial. And a lot of people are very angry about that. And it was assumed during the trial. People got mad of me for assuming this, for not even assuming deducing this, that the holdout juror was the one saying, I don't think that she's not guilty. I think that she's guilty.

Starting point is 00:47:43 And the reason why I was able to deduce that is, because of the reaction of the defense attorney who was so angry about this, that he was so angry that she was not about to be, that Lindsay Clancy was not about to be let off. Well, this lone juror was not just alleviated of his responsibility after the trial ended, but other jurors have decided to do a press tour talking about this juror, and the media has decided to dig into his past. And when I talked the other day about this on Instagram, I got messages and comments from people saying, well, did you hear that he has a bad past, that he has a domestic violence charge against him? Media outlets like CBS and NBC published the details about his past, the domestic

Starting point is 00:48:29 violence charges, NBC 10, Boston tracked down the holdout juror's family reporting one family member described him as a narcissist who she believes should never have served as a juror in such an important case. And their articles trashing him in BC10 published a video that showed details of their court searches of him and court records, including charges and part of his name. And he was also doxed name, picture online by influencer journalist on X. So my response to that to some of your questions, well, did you see that this holdout juror has all of these charges? What do you know about the other jurors. Did they have charges against them?

Starting point is 00:49:13 Do you not think it's interesting that only this one person is being dug into? Do you not think it's strange that the media and these other jurors have a campaign of vengeance against this one guy because of his convictions? I think it is horrific what the media is doing to this person. Am I saying that he was some great guy? Am I saying that he has a squeaky, clean past and that they're all lying about his reputation? I'm not saying that.

Starting point is 00:49:38 I'm saying that that's irrelevant and that none of us should know that. I think it's jury intimidation. I think it is future jury intimidation. Say they retry this case. The jurors are going to be sure to come to the conclusion that the media wants. They are going to be sure to answer to not the court of law, but the court of public opinion. They don't want to be doxed. They don't want all of the skeletons coming out of their closet.

Starting point is 00:50:06 They don't want what they did when they were 18 years old, 25 years old, now maybe they're 55 years old to be brought back into the light, they potentially lose their job, damage their relationships, damage their public reputation forever. This is not justice. If the court of public opinion and the media are able to drag you through the mud because you don't come to a conclusion that popular culture tells you you should come to, then we do not have real justice because you cannot be impartial. You can't be a critical thinker because you can't be a critical thinker because all you're worried about is your own safety, your livelihood, your family's safety. That's what you have to think about when you're in the jury room now is what is the media going to do to me

Starting point is 00:50:50 if I don't come to the conclusion that they want me to come to. I guarantee you that is part of what happened in the Derek Trovan trial. And I know I just opened a can of worms there and I'm just going to leave it and I'm not going to talk about it more. But it is very, very difficult when you're talking about cases like this for the media to not have some kind of, or social media, to not have some sort of influence over it. Especially when they join in on a campaign after to say that the one holdout juror, the one guy who made a different decision to drag in through the mud. Most people are not committed to like a higher call.

Starting point is 00:51:36 or a higher purpose or transcendent justice enough to be able to resist the temptation just to do the safest and most convenient thing. So you want to know what I think about this guy in his past. I think I should know about it. I think none of us should know about it. I think that it should be against the law what the media is doing. I think it should be against the law what these jurors are doing going around and talking about this guy.

Starting point is 00:52:05 I know that you might be like, well, first amendment, okay, well, their First Amendment rights are already inhibited when they're serving on the jury. Like, I think that there needs to be some kind of limitation for afterwards too, especially when there's a possibility that you could have a retrial. Like, how can we expect justice in this case when really this is all being decided on TikTok? How terrifying. Regardless of what you think about Lindsay Clancy's guilt, I want you. I'm going to ask you to think objectively for a second, that if you were in this position, that if you were in a different position, say that you were being accused of something, do you really want idiot TikTok sleuths to decide your fate? I hope not. That's why we have juries. That's why we have judges. That's why we have

Starting point is 00:52:53 attorneys. Like, why don't we just bypass all of that and let, you know, Cindy Sleuther on TikTok decide whether or not you should go to jail for life. That's a scary world. I don't want to live in it. Shame on the media. Shame on these journalists. Shame on the people who have trashed him. And docks him.

Starting point is 00:53:16 I don't know what he's done. I don't care what he's done, okay? Because I think on this that he had a good point. Now, the other jurors didn't like what he had to say. And we're going to play some of that. And we're going to play how the media has reacted. to the fact that this person is a person of color. Can you believe it? People of color aren't allowed to think critically, according to Gail King. We'll get into that in just a second.

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Starting point is 00:54:39 eligible bills with a 99.9% funding success rate usually in just seven days. Go to join crowdhealth.com use code alley, join crowdhealth.com code alley. Crowd health is not insurance opt out. Take your power back. Okay, so this is Gail King. She just got to sit with this for a second. It's not one. I'm curious about the jurors themselves because we know it was nine women, three men. What was the age range? What was the racial makeup? I haven't heard any of that. What was it? 70-ish to 22. And one person of color and then everybody else was white. A lot of the jurors had children.

Starting point is 00:55:30 One person of color was a person of color, a woman or a man? A man. Is a holdout juror a person, a black man? Yes. A black man is a holdout juror? Yes. Well, I have to sit with that for just a second. Like, why can't she wrap her mind around the fact that your melanin count doesn't have to dictate what you think? It doesn't have to dictate how you see justice and how you see truth. But of course, as we talked about so much, exhaustively, 2020 through 2022. Critical race theory, social justice ideology, intersectionality. Like, if you want to know why Gail King felt this way to where she was like just taken aback that a black man could have a different opinion than her, you got to go back and you got to listen to some of those episodes right after

Starting point is 00:56:21 George Floyd died and all of those riots were occurring. And there was just so much craziness and confusion, even within the evangelical church. I mean, we went after that for a very long time, unrelatable. So if you're confused at all about where that reaction is coming from, you should go back and listen to some of those episodes. Now listen to how some of these other jurors talked about this guy, talked about this juror who, quote, had the hardest time getting off the fact that Lindsay viciously killed her children.

Starting point is 00:56:54 Stop three. We read to him on numerous occasions, the definition of reasonable doubt from Judge Sullivan's instruction. He actually said one day in the end, well, why don't we have the judge come in and read it again? And we were like, no, we have it in front of us. We don't need that. And we would highlight it.

Starting point is 00:57:16 And, you know, so-and-so, this is the definition of reason of doubt. But he had the hardest time getting off the fact that Lindsay viciously killed her children. Ah, gosh, you just couldn't get over that tiny, tiny detail. when it came to this trial. Here are some other jurors also talking about this guy who just could not get over the murder, Sot, too. He was very arrogant. He really did not take anything that anybody said.

Starting point is 00:57:49 He tried to ask a question about the medications. The nurses in the room spoke to that. That was a question that he had. And he just completely disregarded the information. that they gave him. The exercise band out of the bag grabbed an empty water bottle and tied the band around the water bottle and pulled it. I was shocked. It didn't make any sense to me.

Starting point is 00:58:16 We're not in here to play detective or it's not a game of clue. Like this is serious. I asked him why was, why are you doing that? That's a band that was used to strangle a child. It's disgusting. What? Okay. This other juror is saying that this holdout juror took an exercise ban out of the bag

Starting point is 00:58:38 and then grabbed an empty water bottle and tied the band around the water bottle and pulled it apparently to show like, okay, this is what it looked like. I want you to imagine he's, it seems to me, obviously I'm not in the room and I have to deduce some things, but it seems to me like he's trying to show people, don't forget about what happened. Like don't forget about the kids. And also, she assumes that he's dismissing some of the things that the nerds. has said, well, by that logic, all of the other people are dismissing what the other doctors

Starting point is 00:59:09 on the prosecution side said. Maybe he just didn't agree with it. Liberals, and I don't know that everyone on the side of acquitting her or, you know, saying she's not guilty as a liberal, but in general, liberals just have a really hard time with someone disagreeing with them. It's always some kind of nefarious reason behind why we believe what we believe or why someone comes to a different conclusion. I just notice that pattern a lot. This guy is not given the benefit of the doubt even a little bit when it comes to the very real concerns that he has.

Starting point is 00:59:47 But again, my bigger concern here is that they're all gossiping about it. And most people are not strong enough to resist social compliance. Most people just want to be able to check the box of jury duty and go on with their lives. Most people are not willing to risk it all for a higher truth or justice. And that is my concern here. I think it's disgusting what the media is doing. I think it's disgusting what these other jurors are doing. I don't think the law should allow it.

Starting point is 01:00:17 And anyone who cares about justice, whatever you think about Lindsay Clancy and her responsibility, you should all be outraged by this. Don't message me and ask me, well, how could you? you say that you agree with a holdout juror when he's done X, Y, Z in his past. Irrelevant. Irrelevant, okay? You should wonder, why do you even know that information and is it good that you know it? The answer is no. Very concerned about the future of justice in this country, very concerned largely because of this concept of toxic empathy that I've written about, that I've talked about very much, that empathy has replaced objective reasoning and certainly

Starting point is 01:00:57 has replaced biblical truth, an untethered or unsubmitted empathy, empathy that just runs amok that is not in submission to biblical truth. It leads to unjust and irrational outcomes that leads to danger for everyone, especially for these vulnerable kids that, as we have explained today, really become the primary victims of it. All right, that's all we got time for today. We will be back here on Friday with a very important guest, John Cooper. He's got a lot to say and you won't want to miss it. We'll see you guys back here then.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 1396 | You Don’t Have “Mom Rage;” You’re Just Sinning

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