Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 148 | Gabe Rench

Episode Date: August 9, 2019

CrossPolitic host Gabe Rench and I discuss the role of Christians in government and how we should be approaching civic issues.

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hello, relatable listeners. I hope everyone has had a wonderful week. Today I am joined by Gabe Rinch, my friend from the show Cross Politics. He is going to give us some insight into how Christians should approach civic issues and the role of the government and the government and the

the role of Christians in government and how we kind of approach all the craziness that's going on in the so-called secular world. Gabe, thanks so much for joining me. Yeah, thank you for having me. So first, please introduce yourself, just tell everyone who you are, what you do, tell them about your show. Yeah, so I'm the host, one of the hosts of cross-politics show and podcast. We're on DukTV on Friday nights and then of course podcast, social media, all that stuff too. We are just a Jesus's Lord show over everything. So we've actually had, you know, we've interviewed Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh. You've had Matt Walsh on.

We also will have pastors on the show. We'll have politicians on the show. We did a live show with all our governors in Idaho, all our candidates running for governor in Idaho. So we want to address every topic. And so I'm the host of that show. I also serve as a deacon of my church and an entrepreneur. and so that's where I go. Yeah.

I'm curious as to what, well, I think I know, but maybe my audience might not know, what got you started in this? Why did you guys decide, okay, we need a Christian-centered show that talks about, not just Christian stuff,

even though everything is, I guess, technically Christian or theological in some way. How did you decide that you were going to talk about the span of everything from a biblical perspective? Yeah. So I had many, I've had ministry desires, you know, as long as I can remember.

And when I had an opportunity, I left my company in 2016, and I served as a deacon. I served in my deacon in my church. And I kind of looked around and said, you know, what is my church not doing that? Maybe I have a gift at. Yeah. And so that's how I started thinking about radio and podcast, stuff like that. And then I knew I wasn't good enough to carry a conversation for now. I'm not like you, Ali.

I can't carry a conversation by myself for now. Only a few of us really can. Just kidding. Yeah. And so I roped my associate pastor into being a host with me. And then my friend, David, he's a black filmmaker. He knew all the technology. He's got a great voice.

So we roped him in. Through long story short, we twisted his arms to get him in. And so that's how the so started. And the big thing that we really wanted to hit was we saw that the church for the last decades, number of decades was you'd go to church, you'd get a good gospel. message, a good sermon or whatever, but you would hear nothing about what does this mean for my everyday life, Monday through Friday, what does this mean for culture? What is this specifically what does this mean to politics? And so there's a huge disconnect between

disciplining on Sunday and helping people to think, what does the Bible say about scriptures Monday through Friday? And so they would go to turn on Sunday and then they would go listen to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh to what they need to think about politics. And that's such a disconnect as much as I think Russia's got some good conservative principles and same for Glenn, but it was very disconnected to what the Bible said. And that's problematic. And I think that's created some real problematic conservatism. Yeah. So you kind of sought to bridge that gap and to fill that void that I totally agree was there. And you guys are doing a really good job of filling it. I also think that that works as a perfect transition into what we're talking about.

we're going to talk about really the role of government from a Christian perspective and how Christians should interact with and be involved in the government and what the Bible has to say about that. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over

hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. So first, just to lay the groundwork, what does the Bible have to say about Christians interacted in the parts of the culture that a lot people deem is completely secular? Yeah, so first as Christians, we believe that God's word applies to every area of our lives, and we believe God's word has something to say about every area of our lives, whether family, government, education, whatever. So the scripture actually has a lot to say about government and what the government's role is in society and what the government's relationship

is to the individual, to the family, to the church. So I think it would be best for me to maybe just kind of lay out what the scripture says about God and government here real quick. kind of summarize it. So the Bible has given us, God has given us three forms of government. You have the civil government, you have the family government, and you have the church government. So we get the authority, we get the principle of civil government from Romans 13, obviously. That's a basic chapter to go to. You also have just kind of the case law that Deuteronomy gives us as a civil form of how the government should be ruling. The family government, God's given us the family government is another authority, and you see that in Ephesians 5, 1st Timothy chapter 5,

and then lastly, the church government. You look at Matthew 17, Matthew 18, Jesus, giving the apostles, the final go out and make disciples of all the nations. So each government has a role. So let me define the civil government. The civil government's job is to enact justice, to keep the peace to, you know, bring civil penalties upon those who are lawless. Romans 13. The church government's job is to preach the gospel, disciple the nations, and we have our own form of church discipline, right? So I'll get more in detail on that later. And then lastly, the family's job is basically the government of health, welfare, and education. That's the family's job. That's my job. My job is to make sure my family's healthy. My job, me and my wife's job is to make sure our family, if they get

sick or something, they get taken care of. And then our job is to disciple our kids, to educate our kids and knowledge and fear of the Lord, K through college, K through life. And so, but you kind of look at those governments as circles that maybe have some overlap and each circle, right? Yeah. And so I think that's the best way to kind of be thinking about the basic governmental authorities in our lives. Yeah, and that's exactly what I was going to ask you is what is the overlap, because obviously they're not completely separate, because as we talked about from the beginning of this conversation, Christians are involved. We should care about what's happening on the civic level, not just on the church and the family level. So where does that overlap and where

can Christians rightly get involved and kind of infuse the light of Christ into what's happening in the civic world? Yeah, so I think it gets tricky. when you deal with problems. That's where the government overlap gets tricky as we do with problems. So let's say a husband cheats on his wife in the church and won't repent. Well, it's the government of the church's job

to excommunicate that husband if he doesn't repent. But let's say a husband cheats on his wife and then there's a divorce and then the kids have to be separated and then there's money involved, cars, houses, all that stuff. Well, that's where the government's responsibility is to come in and kind of play referee. So there is overlap, but the scriptures defines how that overlap is sorted out.

Once you have one of these governments dominate or take over an area that God has not given them authority to take over, that's where you run into problems. So civil government in regards to education, that's a huge problem. But part of that problem happened because the family was not exercising the authority that God had given them. they were giving that authority over to the federal government or over to the state government over to the high school, public school system. And so once you have a breakdown and things start going cattywampus when one government starts to intrude into another area that God has said, no, that's not your job. Yeah.

So what do Christians do with that? Because that's really the biggest place that I see it is education for our kids, is that especially when it comes to sex education, things that you would think obviously should happen at the home. that's happening in the classroom. And parents we've seen in California and even in other states are saying, sorry, you have no say over what your child learns about sexuality and gender inside the school. So what is the Christian supposed to do in light of something like that?

Yeah. So first, the problem. The problem with public education is that there are, Voddy Bakum's got this great quote. It's no wonder you give your kids over to Caesar to be educated and they become Romans. Surprise. Wow, that is a really good quote. It really is. And the data actually even says that.

So Barnag Group has done studies on this. The SBC has done studies on their own children. And they've been finding basically 50 to 80% of our kids lose their faith by their freshman year in college. Wow. And so the problem is catastrophic. You have more of a chance to survive on the beach of Normandy than your kids with their faith in college. Yeah. That's a massive problem.

And so what we've been doing, basically it's kind of like the definition of insanity. We've been doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results by sending our kids to public education. Right. And so part of what needs to happen is really moms and dads actually need to repent of those decisions. That's hard. But if you look at the problem, it's obvious that we're destroying our kids. Obviously that we are the, we're the problem and we need to reclaim the responsibility of educating our children. And so that's the first thing that needs to happen is we just need to repent of doing this.

one of the things that I challenge my Republican congressman and legislator. So I went and spoke at Young Americans for Liberty at a college campus here recently. I'm going down to speak at a Republican event in Boise, Idaho. I'm from Idaho. I mean, I live in Idaho, although I grew up in Texas. Yes, you did. And one of the things I challenged my Republican friends on is why do you guys providing more funding, more education to the public. school system when all they're doing is disciplining kids to grow up and vote against you.

Yeah. That's all they're doing. Yeah. It's insane. Bring this back to the church. So the family, so the family's government, the family's job, the family's duty that God has given them, Ephesians 6, is that fathers are supposed to nurture and, nurture and raise their kids up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

That word nurture and admonition is Pidea. Pidea is the Greek word for basically a culture. of discipleship, a culture of education. So when fathers particularly, like Paul is specifically admonishing fathers to do this. So fathers particularly are needed to make sure their kids are growing up in the nurture and administration of the Lord. And you can't do that sending your kids to, you know, to high, to public school. So one other point connected to this. So we send our kids to public school and there's about 14,000 hours where a kid will be in the system. in the public school through K through 12, about 14,000 hours.

You get about 2,000 to 3,000 hours with your kids, K through 12, around the dinner table, around family time or on Saturday. So the amount of time you have actually disciplining your kids because dads go, you generally go to work, go out into the workforce, the amount of time you actually have to disciple your kids is minimal and very insignificant to the amount of time that the education system has with your kids, K through 12. So what about moving from education to Christians actually in the world of politics? So Christian politicians are just Christian voters.

And maybe it is connected to education in some way. Do you think that Christians, or what's your response to the question of, do you think that Christians have an obligation to vote in an obligation to care about things like public education? And what does that role actually look like? Yeah. So this goes back to our fundamental understanding of scriptures that we believe the Bible applies to every area of life. Having a civil government is not sin, although some Christian anarchists might be against a government, a formal government. But having government is not sin. God gave us a government in Romans 13. Jesus interacted with the centurion. I mean, there's a number of examples of scripture where government's just not sin. So if government's not sin, then the Bible has a word for that. The Bible has a word for how that should walk its way out. And the government is God's, it's, in another way of looking at this, government's also a gift from God. And so kind of working that out is Christians, absolutely,

if God's given us an authority, we need to render to Caesar that, which is Caesar's now. I think what Jesus is talking about there is he follows up and says we also need to render to God what is God's. Well, who's God? Who did God make? God made Caesar. God made the image on that coin. So we need to be able to render and do it and render in such a way where all things are under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

And so we need to be able to participate in government where we recognize the supreme authority of Jesus in our lives. And so Christians, I think, I know Christians tend to kind of check out of politics because they say it's either too complicated, too frustrating, too discouraging, or they check out because they don't even know where to start. you know, all politics is local, that's saying? Well, we first start with all the politics that are local in our house and how we love our children, how we discipline our kids, and how we raise them up. That's where we first start. And then I'd recommend Christians get involved in local elections. And, you know, the most important election is not the federal government election.

It's not the president being elected. The most important elections should be your mayor and your sheriff. Yeah. And I think that we forget about that because we don't hear about that stuff in the news. And it takes even more effort to know what's going on on a local level, crazily enough, it's almost ironic, it takes more of an effort to know, like, who your state representative is and who your mayor is and who the local elected officials are rather than it does, you know, your senator and the president and things like that, which is why I think, like you said,

a lot of people, Christians, non-Christians alike, they just don't know. And, you know, it's not a part of the mainstream drama that they might be seen on Twitter. I want to talk about Roman Well, in Texas, look back real quick, just a second. Yeah. And Texas is a good example of that this last year where Beto, or two years ago, where Beto almost beat Texas. But what happened was, is everyone got their eye off the local election ball. And you actually had all these judges flipped Democrat.

And so you had all these local elections actually go Democrat because everyone was paying attention to Ted Cruz and Beto. Yeah. I know. Crazy. Well, I mean, actually, that, I know for a fact that that happened because my state representative flipped blue. And this is a very conservative district in a lot of ways, but Beto had an effect on, on the districts in a way that we just didn't really anticipate. And so my district

that we were all like solid, no, it's going to be read, this random Democrat one, random, who no one even knows has no experience whatsoever. So I can attest to exactly exactly what you're saying. I want to talk about, I want to talk about Romans 13 because you brought that up. a couple times. Now, there seems to be a disagreement between genuine Bible believing Christians on Romans 13. On the one hand, some people use it for justification for complete separation from, you know, what's happening here on earth and what happens in heaven or our responsibility as Christians and our responsibility as citizens. You kind of see this duality. Now, here's where I have kind of learned, I think, or have been evolving in my own view of scripture. I

I would have said at one point that, yes, it's totally separate. But then I caught myself being hypocritical when it came to things like abortion. On things like abortion, I'm like, well, we should totally get involved. We should totally push for legislation. But then on other things, I would say, oh, no, no, it's totally separate because I don't want to be a social justice warrior. So tell me, tell me, in your view, what Romans 13 looks like for Christians and why I think you would say it does not call for a complete separate. from what we do legislatively and here on earth and are calling to share the gospel, why those things are actually intertwined.

Yeah. So there's a number of, I think, people on the other side that might fall under the Two Kingdom theology camp or might fall under the kind of more pre-millennial thinking where I'm just, my main goal is to focus on the rapture and so forth. And so, yeah, I think scriptures rejects those ways of thinking about. civil government and for a couple reasons. One is when Jesus said that kingdom come that will be done, we're praying that God's kingdom is going to come here on earth. That kingdom come that will be done. And so that means, and then you see in Isaiah chapter 65 and 66 that Isaiah is prophesying that the

line is going to lie down on the lamb and that if you die before 100 years old, that that means that you'll be cursed. And so we're going to see a kingdom in this world where the gospel is going to go out and it will be covering the world like the knowledge covers the sea. So I think we still got another 5,000 years here on earth perfecting our baseball swing for Jesus' name. I think we got another 5,000 years on earth spreading the gospel until everyone knows of the gospel like the waters covers the sea, which has significant implications on how we think about the government. So God gave us the government not as a distinct separate entity that doesn't report to Jesus. God gave us the government as a, as a organization, as an entity that reports to Jesus under the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Romans 13 says it's very clearly in the first verse where it says, verse one, let every soul be subject to the governing authorities, for there's no authority except from God. So all authorities given from God. And the authorities that exist are appointed by God. So the family government's appointed by God, the civil government's appointed by God, the church is appointed by God, which means they all need to listen to Jesus. You know, Barack Obama needs to repent and listen to Jesus. President Trump needs to bowes need of Jesus. And so our government should reflect a Christian government. I have no problem with saying that. Now, but I have no problem saying that with keeping in mind the distinctions of what God's given us between civil government, church government, and family government. Yeah. So this is where

kind of this line gets muddy. And this is the classic question that a lot of people use to kind of trap Christians, as we're both Christians, I don't think that you'll take it that way. So, for example, with gay marriage, people, a lot of Christians, non-Christians have a hard time kind of coming to terms with, okay, on the one hand, does the church, the church defines marriage. We know that the churches should be free not to marry two men if they don't want to, but would it have been okay for a Christian to vote in favor of gay marriage on a civic level? Yeah, no, it's not okay. because God defines what marriage is.

Man doesn't define what marriage is. And so that's an area where the government needs to submit to God's word on what marriage is. And man cannot make up marriage. Man cannot make up the definition of marriage. Supreme Court cannot make up the definition of marriage. And so that's a clear example of where the civil government needs to bow its need of Jesus and not do that. There's a couple practical issues here also. So marriage is defined by God and His Word, and the church needs to honor that, and the government needs to honor that.

And if you don't do that, one of the things that you're going to get into is the federal government is going to have to be sorting out polygamous marriages. What happens in a polygamous divorce? You know, how does the government sort through all the nasty, difficult situations that can come about from not honoring God's word in his definition of marriage? What happens if the government has to, you know, separate or work through a divorce between a man and his animal? So if the government doesn't honor God's word in defining what marriage is, then the government's going to be dealing with all sorts of problems down the road. Do you think there's a place, though, for the government to allow the freedom for something that's, or for Christians in government to allow the freedom for something that they don't necessarily condone? obviously constitutional values of freedom of speech. That means people are going to say things that we don't agree with, freedom of religious

expression, people are going to worship in a way that we don't agree with. So Christians, should they be voting in favor of that freedom or no? So here's the key principle here that I think we need to understand before we start talking about voting for which and what is there's a difference in the Bible. There's a difference between sins and crimes. Right. So is it a sin for? me to get drunk and go walking down the street. Absolutely. Bible's very clear about that. Should it be a

crime? Absolutely not. Is it a sin for me to smoke weed and get high? You know, Ephesians 5, absolutely. Should it be a crime? I actually, I don't think it should be a crime. And so we need to be able to, as Christians, we need to be able to understand. This is where I think the church has significantly dropped the ball, is teaching and disciplining their church, their people on the difference between sins and crimes because that helps us sort through a lot of this stuff. You know, is it, is it a sin to murder? Yes. Should it be a crime to murder? Yes. The Bible is very clear that it's also a civil penalty. There's also a crime behind it. Stilling, same thing. Is it a crime to steal? Absolutely. Is it a sin to steal? Yes. And so all these things, I think, are,

those categories, I think, really help us better understand. What should the government be legislating? What should they not be legislating? The government has the authority given by God to legislate crimes. The government does not have the authority to legislate sins. That's the church's job to deal with, not the government's job. So would, but could you see someone applying the logic that you just articulated to something like gay marriage? We believe that Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin, but the government doesn't necessarily believe that homosexuality is a sin, or do you see gay marriage is totally different? Because as you said, God defines marriage, not the state.

Yeah, so I would look at that as a presuppositional issue. God gave us marriage. God defines marriage. And knowing all we're doing is recognizing God's definition. All the government's authority in this situation, all they're allowed to do is actually recognize God's definition of marriage in this situation. So they have no authority to change that, that they have to recognize it. So on Romans 13,

13, some people also use that to say that something like the American, revolution was actually sinful because we're supposed to submit to governing authorities. What would you say to an argument like that? As Christians, we got the luxury of having a worldview to be able to process these challenging problems. And one of the things that the Bible clearly teaches is that all human authority is not absolute. The only absolute authority in this world is Jesus, King of King's Lord of Lord. So as a father, my authority is real. It's God. given. It's something that my children need to honor, but I'm not, I'm not an absolute authority.

If I tell my kids to go steal, if I tell my kids to go murder, if I, you know, if I tell my kids to disobey a Ten Commandment, I'm in sin. I'm not, I don't have that kind of authority. And my children have the God-given call to disobey Dad when I tell them to disobey a Ten Commandment. But what the recognizing is that God's authority is absolute, not my fault, not Daddy's authority. Yeah. And same thing with civil government. The civil government, if they tell me to kill my children, their authority is not absolute in my life. If they tell me to go to an unjust war, I have the duty to obey God over man. And so that every church government, same thing. Church government authority, your pastor, this is authority is not absolute. It's real. It's God given,

but it's not absolute. Your elders authority is real. It's God given. It's not absolute. And so, but that's why we need to be thinking Christians, and we need to be in the Bible and the scriptures to be able to know how do I sort through these difficult situations where the government is maybe telling me to do something I shouldn't or my pastors tell me to do something that I don't think the Bible gives them authority to tell me to do or my dad. I'm supposed to honor my dad.

How do I sort through these problems? And that's when we just need to saturate in God's word to be able to sort through those problems. Yeah, and that's why I think it's important to look at every verse in light of all of scripture because, okay, Romans 13 says we need to submit to governing authorities. but like you said, every point at which we even see in the Bible of people not submitting to governing authorities, so Shadrach Meshach and Abindigo, Daniel, those are Jesus, those are all examples.

What they were doing is not just disobeying to disobey for their own interests. They were disobeying to obey God. And I think that's what we see throughout history. We see that with any kind of godly or gospel-driven revolution when we look at Wilberforce or if you look at Bonhoff, if you look at Corrieton, boom, all of them were rebelling in some way against civic authorities to obey God. And so that's why I think what you said is completely spot on. And that's something that I hadn't even really thought about until I heard for the first time someone say the American Revolution was sinful. It was wrong. I was like, hang on just a second. So I think that we're

totally on the same page. Now, here's a question that I've also been thinking. I heard a story of someone who said, you know, I'm not going to pay, I think it was, I'm not going to pay taxes or something like that because I know my tax money is going to plan parenthood. Do Christians take it that far? Yeah. So when it comes to basically, that's more of a question of like civil disobedience. When's it appropriate to civilly disobey our ruling authorities that God's given us? And I'm, I'm for a, we need to have a theology of what civil disobedience should look like. So I'm for having that question. And I don't know, honestly.

Yeah. And so a couple things that I would want to sort out first before I maybe start talking through what civil disobedience to look like first is the church obviously is in this situation because we need to repent of our false teaching, repent of our lack of discipleship, repent of ultimately our cowardice. I think our biggest problem in our nation right now is pastors are cowards, but hands down. And so I would want to, I would want to, I would want to, first pinpoint the responsibility of that issue, taxes, whatever the issue is, first on the

church, not teaching their people, how to think scripturally about family, about government, about church government first. And then, you know, civil disobedience, trying to be a lone duck, not paying your taxes or whatever is, is not going to accomplish anything. The Bible also, but also what muddies the situation in all this, the Bible does give authority for the government to tax. But here's the problem. this is where the government needs to submit to God's law on taxation. And 1 Samuel chapter 8, when Israel was asking for a king, they're saying, Samuel, we want a king like all the other nations. And Samuel responded and said, you guys are asking for a king, and you know what that king's going to do?

That king is going to take your children and build armies. That king is going to take your money and tax you at 10%. That was 10%. Huge. And so Samuel was talking like, that's a curse. That's a problem. If a government taxed. And I actually think the government should be taxing us less than 10% because I think

that God requires the church to tithe. We're supposed to tie 10%. And so I think all authority is God's saying, I'm claiming all authority on earth. You give my church 10% and everyone else takes less than that. So I think a taxation over 10% is stealing. That's my view. And I also, one of the, this. is way beside the point, but one of the favorite things, if you ever run for political office,

or if anybody listening to show everyone's for political office, put forward a law that says, if we tax our people, let's say, over 20%, then the government is stealing from our people. We cannot tax our people over 20%. All of a sudden, that puts into play all sorts of accountability. Because you know when that politician starts running and starts promising you a new park in your local area or starts promising you health care, starts promising all these things, and you're like, wait a second, we're already taxed 20%. You can't tax us any more than that. You can't promise all these free things. So anyway, having a biblical theology of what taxation should look like helps us

sort through also what civil disobedience should look like. Yeah, and I agree. Something that you keep reiterating, which I think is so good, is that it goes back to the church and the responsibility that Christians have within the church to be educating those inside the church, taking care of the needs of those inside the church, fathers standing up, taking care of their families, teaching their families, rather than giving these responsibilities to the government who never, never were supposed to have these responsibilities in the first place. If we just did that, I think a lot of problems would probably be solved. You bring to mind one of the thing that I think is important to discuss and all this. There's a book out by Matt Trewella called The Law of Lesser Magistrates. It's a really good

book. I've heard of it. I have not read it. Pardon me? I said I've heard of that. I just haven't read it. Yeah. Yeah. So the law of lesser magistrates is just a simple biblical principle that says the lesser magistrate leading the local, you know, the mayor, the lesser magistrate has a duty to protect his citizens, his or her citizens against the governor of Idaho. So the higher magistrate, the governor of Idaho has a duty to protect against the infringement of a federal government. Yeah. So the law of lesser magistrates means that you have to understand what the Bible says, you have to know what your duties are as a governor of the state of Idaho,

and you have to know your duties of how to honor the higher authority above you, but also if the higher authority above you tells you to start killing your citizens, you have the biblical authority and duty to disobey that higher magistrate. And so the law of lesser magistrates is an important, I think, doctrine that actually pastors need to recover. So, for example, if abortions in your community, well, the pastor has a duty to preach against the higher magistrates. They're required by God in His Word to preach against the higher magistrates and speak into the lives. And you are in sin, you know, city council, you are in sin, mayor, you're in sin, governor because God's word says not to murder, right?

Thou shalt not murder. You're in sin. So it's a duty of the lesser magistrate, whatever that magistrate is, whether it's a pastor, a father, a governor, the president, whatever that magistrate is, they have a duty to follow God's word and speak into and even resist when the Bible calls for it that higher authority infringement or intrusion into your people's lives, if that makes sense. It totally makes sense. Amen. Thank you so much. I think that's a perfect note to end on, because in a way it kind of summarizes a lot of what you said. So thank you for this conversation.

I learned a lot. I know that everyone listening learned a lot too. If you could please please tell everyone where to find you and anything else you would like them to know. Yeah, you can follow me on Twitter, GM wrench, GM wrench on Twitter. Also, our website, cross-politic.com. We're on direct TV on Friday nights. And then, of course, social media. So thank you so much, Allie, for having me on and appreciate it. Yeah, of course.

Can they find you? Can they find Cross-Politic like on iTunes and stuff too? Yeah, yeah, of course, typical podcast channels, iTunes to Google, play to Stitcher and all that. stuff. And then, of course, on YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter. We do a podcast on Wednesday, which goes on social media. We do a TV show on Friday nights on DirecTV. And then we do our, kind of our hour-long podcast on Sunday nights at 7 p.m. We stream live, actually 7 p.m. every Sunday night. End your Sabbath well with us. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time, and I'm sure that we will talk soon. Thanks for having, Ali.

Thank you guys so much for listening. I hope that you have a wonderful day. And if you have any feedback or any questions at all, of course, you know that you can email me, Allie at the conservative millennial blog.com. If you do not subscribe on YouTube, make sure that you go do that now. And of course, you can follow me on social media. If you so choose. And if you love the show, please leave me a five-star review on iTunes. Share this with your friends. It would mean a lot to me. Of course, if you don't want to do that, I will still love it. you. Okay, I'll see you guys soon. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Alley, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show

for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.