Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 311 | Seeking the Truth in a Post-Truth Era | Guest: Megyn Kelly

Episode Date: October 9, 2020

Megyn Kelly, host of the new podcast, The Megyn Kelly Show, joins us to talk about controversial topics including abortion, censorship, partisanship, President Trump, Critical Race Theory, the current state of the news media, and when not to apologize. Because in her own words: "the people who hate you don't want to hear it, and the people who love you don't need to hear it." Today's Sponsors SimpliSafe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home 24/7. Get free shipping and a 60 day money back guarantee. Visit https://SimpliSafe.com/ALLIE Laurel Springs: As experts in online learning, Laurel Springs has the tools and the curriculum your child needs to maintain their learning unhindered by whatever the future holds. Go to https://laurelsprings.com/allie/ for a waived registration fee! ------ Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Friday. Hope everyone has had a great week. So I am so excited about this episode and this interview. I am talking to Megan Kelly. And guys, if you know me, you know, you know. how much I have admired her and how long I have admired her. Maybe the only people who really know that are my husband who's listening to this and my parents who is listening to this. But guys, I was in high school when I watched Megan Kelly on Fox News and I always told

myself, I want to be like her. I want to do what she's doing, which of course I don't do exactly what she did at Fox News and I probably never will. And that's okay. I like the path that I'm on. I am communicating about the things that I think matter and I believe are true. And that's all I've ever wanted to do my whole life. But Megan Kelly was the first person in media that I admired.

And so it is very, it's surreal and it's an honor to get to talk to her. She is so composed and dignified, such a good interviewer, such a solid thinker and analyzer. And I'm just so excited for you guys, too, to get to listen to this conversation. So without further ado, here is Megan Kelly. Megan, thank you so much for joining me. My pleasure. First of all, you are starting at a podcast. Can you tell us a little bit about it and why you decided to start it?

Well, I'm basically sick of people telling not just me, but all of us, what we have to feel, what we have to do, what we have to say, what's not okay? Like, who died and gave the woke scolds all the authority over who we are as humans? Yeah. You know, this is still America. And I'm sick of them. And I'm sick of the media. And I'm sick of the dishonest coverage of Trump. And then on the other side, the sycophantic coverage of Trump, I'm just sick of it.

I don't trust the media. I've been really frustrated during COVID in particular in terms of finding a news source I trust. And, you know, necessity is the mother of all invention. I feel like, well, I'm going to do it. I'll be the person. I'll go out there. I'll get back on my horse. Right.

And hopefully provide a place where we can have those conversations. And you've been in the news world for a long time. Has it been like this forever? Or have you seen a significant change even just since Trump became president? Oh, there's been a huge change. When I started in news, which was 2003 at an ABC affiliate in D.C. It wasn't this way. There's always a left-wing bias in news, but it wasn't okay to show it. Now they embrace it. They're not even trying to hide it anymore, you know, from the New York Times to NBC. you name it. And that's new. It wasn't until I'd say, really President Obama that I remember people really embracing their partisanship and then forget it in the era of Trump. Forget it. Jorge Ramos came out before the last election and said, we have an obligation not to cover Trump fairly. We have an obligation to cover him for what he is, right? And in Jorge Ramos, in his opinion, that's awful. And he won that argument. That is what the mainstream press decided to do.

Right. So in 2016, there were probably some people on the right who accused you of being partisan. I'm sure there's some people today who accuse you of being partisan. But that probably shows that you're really not. You really are trying to cover both sides fairly. What do you say to the accusations of people on either side who said then that you're anti-Trump, who's saying now that you're pro-Trump? What's your response to something like that? I mean, on all these things, I call them like I see them and when I, when I offer opinions. And I try to present the news in an unbiased fashion so my viewers can make up or now my listeners, their own minds. I trust my audience to make up its own mind with actual facts, you know? And the only reason people thought I was anti-Trump is because of that debate question, which is just absurd, right? I mean, it's like I was anti-Ben Carson. He also got it right between the eyes.

And then Trump kept coming after me, which was unpleasant. Yeah. So I've never been, I've never been anti-Trump. I mean, the left loved me because they thought I was anti-Trump. And then they found out I wasn't. And they were like, oh, no, right? They did media. Right.

I really don't have a partisan bone in my body. I'm just not built that way. Yeah. Can you talk to me about what you thought about the debates, which, as this podcast is coming out, it was a couple nights ago. Some of the coverage around that, did you think it was fair? Did you think Pence did a good job? How did you think Kamala did?

I thought the coverage was typical and predictable. I thought I watched some of MSNBC. I watched a little of CBS. MSNBC actually had two anchors on there describing Pence repeatedly as, quote, placid, and lame. Your tweets on that. Now, you tell me what they were trying to project with that kind of language and whether that's appropriate and what would happen if similar language were used about Kamala. You know, it's just out of line. But the craziest thing I saw the entire time was Gail King, who I like. But Gail King, in all seriousness, said when the fly landed on Mike Pence's head, it may have been a message because she said he was saying Donald Trump's not a, he doesn't believe it. There's no systemic racism. And she said the fly was like, say what? Right.

Yeah, earth to Gale. So a lot of people have said that Trump kind of broke. journalists. And obviously you just said that there has been a big shift since Trump became president in the partisanship in the media. Why do you think that is? Like, what is the nature of Trump that have made journalists go that direction and make such silly observations like that? Well, I think he walked into an environment in which the media was not covering Republicans in general fairly. And he accurately deduced that and understood that his main enemy, both in the lead-up to the first presidential contest he won and to this one and while governing would be the media.

You know, when he says the media is the enemy of the people, that's not exactly right, but the media is his enemy. He's got that right. And so he needed to demonize them so people would see what he was seeing, that they can't cover him fairly. 90% of the coverage of President Trump has been negative, 90. And I realize he tweets insane things and says insane things. But if you look at his policies, there is stuff in there that the left should really like. We've gotten a bit more isolationist as a nation. He passed the anti-sex trafficking law. He passed criminal justice reform. He has been very focused on good to Israel. Like, there's a bunch of things here that should be celebrated by both sides, and he never gets any credit for it. So I think, I like to say

that the media is dead. It wasn't a murder. It was more of a suicide, but Trump was like Kavorkian. Yeah. Right there helping. I think a huge disservice to the American people is not the fact that Trump is criticized because I think we would both agree, that's fine.

You should hold the people and power accountable by reporting what is actually true and factual. The problem is that it doesn't seem like the other side is ever held accountable. There are a lot of things that Joe Biden said during the debate that Kamal Harris said, that they have said in general in their campaign throughout their careers, the policies that they've put forth that deserve a spotlight, that deserve digging a little bit deeper to say, did he really say, why aren't they answering the question about the court packing? What about this piece of legislation that never become things?

They never become moments because it seems like we don't have a media that is interested in making them moments and making them things. And so a lot of people who think that they are very well informed because they're reading the Washington Post and New York Times and watching CNN who used to be kind of maybe a middle of the road outlet, they think that they are well informed and that Joe Biden is completely scandal free. He's this moderate Uncle Joe and that Donald Trump is a complete dictator. And those are people who are informed think that way. So how do you encourage people to dig through? the partisanship in the media and actually know what Joe Biden and Kamala are for and actually dig into the truth when it seems like there aren't very many sources giving us that. I think that this is where digital media comes in. I think the relationship of the future between news consumers and those who deliver the news is going to be much more direct. You're not going to have channels that you choose. You're going to have anchors that you

choose, personalities that you choose, to give it to you straight. And it's one of the things I I like about this business and why I wound up here with a podcast instead of somewhere else. If you want to do something other than that, what I do every morning is I go to realclearpolitics.com and they post editorials from the left and the right on every issue right there. You can go down the list and read them both. And a set of facts will emerge, but you shouldn't have to work that hard for it. You know, I'll give you one example of something I saw at the vice presidential debate that probably would have been phrased differently if it had been a Republican who said this.

Kamala Harris said on packing the Supreme Court, which is the hugest issue in this election. Yeah. If Democrats pack the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court is gone. It's basically gone. They're getting rid of the top court in the third branch of government because it will have no credibility. The Republicans will pack it more when they get back in control.

We're going to wind up with 75 justices on there. It's truly the beginning of the end. So it's very controversial. It's treated like it's a nothing. So if I had Kamala Harris in front of me, I would have said, you specifically said earlier in this campaign that you thought we should, quote, talk about packing the Supreme Court. Well, now's your chance.

Are you going to do it or aren't you? And as soon as she started to give me a history lesson, starting an 18-something with Abe Lincoln, I 100% would have interrupted her and said, I'll let you answer with your history lesson, but let's start with this, yes or no. And if she didn't answer, then I'd jump in, just a third time, just a third night's say,

so you refuse to answer it yes or no. That's just me protecting the audience at home. That's not me trying to badger Kamala Harris or if I had to do it to Mike Pence. It's about me protecting the audience at home. I'm their advocate to get answers to the questions I'm going to ask because I've been chosen to do this role.

And I just thought, like, that's a huge issue, and I want to hear her answer it, and she wouldn't. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day

and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the, answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts.

I hope you'll join us. Was there anything that Mike Pence, that he kind of obfuscated, that he avoided to answer that you would have pressed him on a little bit harder? Yeah. like what's he going to do if Trump dies? I mean, he, he, she's going to be underneath the guy who's 77 years old and he's going to be underneath a guy who's, I mean, he'll be 78 at some point in his first, in his second term, it's reelected. And, and he's, you know, had COVID, which he appears to be fighting well, but we, we need to know, like, what is the plan? Have you talked about it? How

would you govern? What would the, I mean, I think that was a very fair line of inquiry and they both dodged it. No one would answer. Right. What do you say to the people who have unpopular, unorthodox opinions, which you have had several times, and you very boldly and factually present those, what do you say to the people who feel not just unprepared, but afraid to speak up, say it's typically, I would say, a conservative who is afraid to maybe tell their liberal friends or their liberal families what they believe or why they're voting for Trump or why they're pro-life, whatever it is, what kind of encouragement do you have to people who are afraid to speak up and to say things that are unpopular? I think the reason they feel that way is because the far left

controls the media and controls Hollywood. So everything they're taking in, whether it's news, it's movies, it's television shows, it's award shows, it's the newspaper, is controlled by people who do not think like conservatives think. And that is why it's very easy to shame them about their very mainstream opinions. And I don't think there's any way out of it. I think the left is going to maintain its control over those industries. And so I don't think there's any way out of it other than conservatives, forgive the phrase, grown a pair and getting out there and saying what they believe unapologetically. You know, I don't know if you've read Douglas Murray at all. He's brilliant. And he wrote this book called The Madness of Crowds, among other things. He's been speaking out

about cancel culture. And he was talking about all these mandated inherent bias. classes that you must go to at certain corporations, which actually create bias. They create bias. They don't cure anyone from it. And he said, what you could say to your employer is, I refuse. I refuse to let you re-racialize my country, my workplace, or myself, because they're trying to shame people into silence. And so far, conservatives have been silent. And that's not the forward. And I think a lot of people have been looking for exactly that kind of advice. I get messages like that all the time. And there's, you know, times where I don't know what to say because I don't know what's at stake for them or their family if they do speak up at work. And it's a lot of responsibility

to give someone that advice. But I think what you just said, what Murray just said is is so good to be able to be forthright and to use their language and their ideas back on them to say, to be able to say, look, I'm not racist. I don't have internalized white supremacy, and I refuse to let you project that on to me and re-segregate not only my mind, but also my life and my workplace. And so I think that's a really good piece of advice. You have dealt with cancel culture. And kind of the arbitrary double standards that are out there in the media. Can you kind of just talk about how you dealt with that, how that felt? when that was going on and what you've learned since? Well, when I was first at NBC and, you know, came under fire for my comments on how 30 years ago, people didn't really react that much to blackface costumes, which happens to be a fact, right? They just didn't. And what's happened in today's society when people wear it is evidence of that.

That's what I was trying to say. Like, today you will get in trouble 30 years ago. It really didn't turn out to be a thing. And that's why we've seen it on so many television shows since then and movies and, you know, yada, yada. But I think at first the backlash was so strong. I'm always quick to reexamine. I was like, do I have a blind spot? Did I say something that wasn't true and just step in it in a way that's really offensive?

I'm open-minded. And all the people around me were saying, yes, not people outside of the building, but the people there. And so I did apologize because I don't want to offend anybody and I don't want to hurt people, especially on an issue of race. But what I've realized since then, Allie, is I made the mistake of assuming good faith on the part of the critics who are coming after me. And I now see that those attacks, for the most part, were not made in good faith. They smell blood in the water and they wanted to put an end to me at NBC. And they got their scalp.

Yeah. And how do you distinguish between people who are genuinely trying to select? solicit an apology for something maybe you actually authentically did wrong and someone who just kind of wants to bring you to your knees and get you to acquiesce to arbitrary cultural demands. I don't think you look at them. You look inside your heart. You know, I think you ask yourself, do I feel that I said or did something wrong? Can I stand by what I said or what I did? And, you know, I tried to explain to the audience what I was trying to get at. And we had a roundtable discussion of blackface then and now.

But, you know, what I know is that the people who hate you don't want to hear it. And the people who love you don't need to hear it. So it's almost like speaking into the void. You know, it's not bad to have more conversation. I believe in more conversation rather than less conversation. But it's the same thing I tell my kids when we walk by a tabloid that's got me on the cover. was something awful next to my name. Yeah.

They said, Mommy, why don't you say that that's a lie? And I say, because my fans know who I am and the people who believe that stuff want to believe it. So it's not a battle worth fighting. Okay. One more, one more interruption to tell you guys about Laurel Spring. So this year, back to school is leaving a lot of parents wondering, how are we going to do this?

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Laurel Springs.com slash alley. I would say cancel culture. Maybe it's always existed to some extent. I'm not sure, but it definitely seems like it has heightened over the past few years. Would you agree with that that this is a little bit of a, a newly intense phenomenon cancelling people for opinions we don't like? Oh, yeah, because corporate America bowed to the mob. They didn't used to have control of corporate America.

Corporate America wasn't like the media in Hollywood. It had a backbone, and it understood principles of free speech and that we're not going to get rid of great employees because they say something that may be mildly controversial or even very controversial. It's just not who we are as Americans. And now they've bowed. I think all those kids who are at those universities being told,

run to your safe spaces. No one's allowed to say anything that mildly offends you have now moved into the workplace. And look what the employees at Spotify are doing to Joe Rogan, trying to get him canceled and threatening to, quote, strike, which is not the right word for what they want to do, at Spotify unless he gets punished or pulled or canceled. And thankfully, so far, Spotify has had Joe's back. But in time after time, we've seen corporations completely bow and a new standard is slowly but surely being set. What we need is more companies like the Wall Street Journal that when some of its employees objected to an editorial

that appeared in their paper, the Wall Street Journal basically said, you don't like it? That's tough. Anyway, that's the way to go forward. That's the way forward. Just grow a spine, stick by it. And when selecting the company for which you would like to work,

try to find one that has a proven record of not being highly partisan or weak. So is that that's the way forward then is not apologizing for things that you don't actually need to apologize for, not cowtowing to the emotional demands of a mob that are not actually based on any real objective principle, but are just based on partisanship and emotions. And moving forward in the pursuit of depending, I guess, on what organization you are, quality service or truth if you are, if you are. if you are a media outlet, you're saying that basically, you just have to stick to those things and stick to those values, stop coutowing to the mob and stop coutowing to cancel culture and apologizing for things that you're not sorry for. Is that what kind of you're suggesting for a way forward? Yes, I think you need to fight back. And I think I know it's easy to say because no one wants to

lose their job. Trust me, I understand that, you know, everyone's paycheck is important to them. But I do think the more people stay in silence and just get punished for mainstream viewpoints. You know, like if you're, if you're anti-abortion, that's mainstream, right? Like something like 80% of the country or 90% of the country doesn't believe in abortion in the third trimester. And yet we're still having debates about whether women can have abortions on demand all the way through their pregnancies. What's wrong with standing up for what you believe in? Even if you don't want any abortion, even if you don't believe in Roe v. and you want it to be outlawed.

There are millions and millions of people in this country that feel that way. You're not out of the mainstream. And you're allowed to have these beliefs. It's some woke jerk who barely got out of college who's trying to tell you otherwise. And unless we start standing up, like, what if you went in? You know, there was some guy, I think it was a radio, a DJ over in the UK who got fired summarily for saying he didn't think that the, I think that the U.S. was systemically biased. Fired. Well, we can go through the facts, right? Like, what I've been doing in my time off is trying to listen to as many black intellectuals as I can, trying to read as many as I can, because I want the honest truth about what they think in terms of the police and, you know, our education system and the relations with whites and the language that's being used right now about them, about us. And I'm learning. And I think the more you can get your information for people, from people who are actually

experiencing, you know, prejudice if they have or have interesting thoughts on how to handle it, the better off you are. I'll give you one example. A Larry Elder is so interesting. And he sent me the movie Uncle Tom, which he just did. And you can get it right now on iTunes if you want it. It's on Apple. It's like 17 bucks. It's worth your time. But he's got all, it's all people of color talking about how they reject, they reject this pejorative paternalistic treatment of black people in this country and their own choices in terms of individual responsibility and working hard and forging forward and even, even if you get turned away from a job because the would-be employer is racist, what to do there, right? It's eye-opening. And I think people have to educate themselves

because this is a subject that's been forced upon us, and now we've got to talk about it because that jerk Robin DiAngelo got her crazy leanings into every boardroom and schoolroom in the country. Right. Right. It's infiltrating. I mean, this is, I'm an evangelical Christian. We talk a lot about theology on this podcast.

It's certainly infiltrating the church, not just cancel culture, but critical race theory and things like that. And we hear a lot from the left and more progressive people that we need to listen to people's experiences and that the way for it is is is empathy, which I agree with to some degree. I don't think empathy should be, can stand alone. It has to be subjected to objective truth. But people don't want to hear the experiences of the people that you just talked about. They don't want to hear people like oftentimes Glenn Lowry or Coleman Hughes or John McWhorter, those intellectuals that you were talking about that kind of have an orthodox views about

police brutality and systemic racism. And so really what you're seeing is just mob rule of a tiny group of people, not the majority, dictating what is okay to think, dictating what is an okay legitimate experience to build some kind of idea or ideology off of. And you make such a good point that these things that are being canceled, that people are being canceled for, are very mainstream and people have actually believed for thousands of. years. Like, it's okay to be against Black Lives Matter as the organization because you're against Marxism. It's okay to be for capitalism. It's okay to be for the preservation of life inside the womb. It's okay to be for the Second Amendment and the First Amendment. Like, these are very

traditional views and we can't be pushed into thinking that they're radical. Right. I mean, I'm thinking about even just critical race theory or inherent bias training, implicit bias training. what the studies have shown, and go and do your own research, so you have the data, but what the studies have shown is that creates racism. If you do have, let's call it, latent racism inside of you, what the studies found is that if you just leave it alone, in 99% of the cases, people never act on it. It's not in the frontal lobe.

But these so-called training sessions, bring it to the frontal lobe, and actually cause racist behavior. That's what the psychologists have determined and the people who have done deep studies into this method of deracializing people have found. So get your facts before your company tries to make you do this because it is re-racializing us. It is taking us past Martin Luther King's dream of seeing the little white boy and a little black boy walked down the street holding their hands and not thinking about color. And it isn't racist to not see color.

I had somebody suggest that my children, if they have black friends, which they do and don't see color, that's racist. That's their inherent white supremacy. I'm sorry, but it's just nonsense. And you can't fight it unless you have your facts. So get them. Get educated. And it makes me so sad. I tell people, you know, we hear this crazy definition of anti-racism, that you can't just not be racist, that you have to be anti-racist. Ebermx Kendi says. And of course, that means latching on to all leftist policy prescriptions and feeding into the ideology of critical race theory, white privilege, and basically self-loathing for white people.

And I just tell people it's really simple. If you want to truly be anti-racist, love your neighbor as yourself. Love God, love your neighbor. That's what we talk a lot about on this podcast. But love people, befrient people no matter what they look like. That doesn't mean that you have to deny that there are cultural differences. If they're from a different culture, you can celebrate those differences. That's great.

But as you pointed out, critical race theory and these implicit bias trainings are actually telling us to elevate our immutable differences to the point of not being able to not see them and assuming that someone who doesn't look like us must hate us. And there's just there's no, there's no nature of reconciliation there. Critical race theory has the, it tells the white people you have to go into the room and be silent. The black people then have to tell the white people how racism has affected them, how that white people's racism has affected their lives. And racism in the country has affected their lives. And the white people are not allowed to say anything. And then when they're done, you're not allowed to challenge. You're supposed to sit in the quiet of your own racism. Right. It's like, come on. My black friends are like, this is absurd. We're not doing it. You know, it's black Republicans. are against this nonsense to a man, to a woman. This is not a black, white issue. It's a Republican

Democrat issue now because they have very different beliefs. You know, Democrats want to say everything is a systemic problem and the government needs to swoop in and solve it. And Republicans say, we believe in the individual. And an individual has to get himself up and get himself successful. And we have a country that will allow that. So there are two very different points of view, but it's not black, white. Right. I actually saw a Pew Research article recently, a study that showed exactly what you're talking about, that over the past, just the past 10 years, if you look at the idea of systemic racism and between Republicans and Democrats, and which side agrees with the statement that discrimination is the number one reason why black

people can't get ahead in this country and America is systemically racist today, Republicans over the past 10 years have barely changed on this. I think it's like 4 to 5 percent who actually believe those things among the Republican Party. Well, over just the past 10 years alone, Democrats have gone from the minority believing in those things to the vast majority believing in those things. And I just can't understand what caused that change. If you had any guesses, what caused that change just in the Democratic Party, not in the Republican Party? I think it's slow growth. It's been this day by day, week by week, gravitation towards identity politics and celebration of one's identity, identitarianism,

over everything else. And it's because it's not just a skin color thing. It's also gender. You know, if you're a woman, it's all about 80 parts. If you're black, it's all about the color of your skin. If you're gay, it's all about your sexuality. If you're trans, it's all about your gender. I mean, who wants to be known for the color of their skin, right?

It's like Ben Carson used to talk. about how, you know, he was the most successful pediatric neurosurgeon in the world. He pulled himself up out of nothing. He had no money, no background, very little chance at a good education, but he made it happen. And he didn't want to be known as the number one black neurosurgeon in the country. He's just the number one pediatric neurosurgeon in the country. Same thing with for Serena Williams. Nobody says Serena Williams is the best black female playing. She is, I think she's the goat, period. But at a minimum, she's the best woman, because they do have a male and a email lead. But no one talks about her color. So it's the, it's the liberals. It's sort of the far left,

not even not all liberals, not all Democrats, but the far left that's tried to inject this identity thing into everyone. And the problem with it is it's very closely tied to victimhood. Right. To an embrace of victimhood. And where's my, where's my posse? Where's my team? That's also been victimized. So we can get together and as a group try to, you know, make change. But the change that they're affecting is always about some system that needs. to be torn down. And there is a strain of Marxism in there, which is what BLM says it stands for. And I don't know that everybody understands that, but it's not about Americanism. It's not about capitalism. I think the country was founded on very different beliefs about bootstraps.

You can't say that now. It's racist. About forging your own way forward, believing in the American dream. I'm not saying it's easy for anybody, but I think the presumption now that it's a racist, awful country that would never let it happen for people of color is blind. by the facts. Yeah. Yeah, I just wish everyone was required to read Thomas Sol in school rather than these critical theorists like Robin DiAngelo. Our country would be vastly different. I'm reading or I read discrimination and disparities and he points out that it's this logical fallacy that if you look at disparities between two groups and you automatically assume racist discrimination, you're not actually looking at the factors that go into that. And I think the entire argument of systemic racism and

critical theory is based on that fallacy, that all disparities equal some sort of white supremacy and racism, ignoring the fact that Asian Americans have a much higher success rate than white Americans and no one is talking about Asian supremacy. So that's exactly right. If you look, it's funny because a lot of the leading intellectuals on this are economists because they actually deal with facts and numbers and they understand how to look at it factually. And the evidence isn't there. And they give the example of mortgages. They say banks don't grant mortgages to black applicants as much as they do to whites. And what people like Thomas Sol have pointed out is they also don't grant mortgages to white people as much as they do to Asians.

So are they discriminating in favor of Asians or is it about what's in your bank account, your history of credit and so on? And listen, we can talk about why people wind up where they do. but just the mere fact that mortgages are easier to get if you're white does not mean the banking system and the mortgage system is inherently racist. Yep. Yep. Okay. Can you give some encouragement to people who are afraid to wait into what is now considered

these controversial conversations like the one that we just had? But they want the courage to not just seek truth, but also speak truth in these very crazy polarizing cancel culture times. What would be your one piece of encouraging? to them? Look, I think Trump was elected in part because he was willing to fight these battles and has. But he's not someone who has any credibility with the left.

You could never point to him in your office space and say, well, Trump says critical race theory is bad. That's not going to convince anybody. I think if there were more of a groundswell on the other side with people who are perceived as reasonable, just reasonable. it could help because I'll be out there saying all this stuff and so will you. But civilians, people who are at home right now and don't have a public platform, are afraid to even like a tweet because they could get fired.

And they're right. They could. So the more people they have saying that this stuff isn't nuts, it's something we need to consider. Somebody like Coleman Hughes is amazing because he's a liberal. He's a Democrat or Thomas Chatterton Williams. These are black men who are definitely on the left who are trying to say, hold on. And my response has been, if black lives matter, if black voices matter and we shouldn't be silencing black voices, what about their voices? People like that need to get out there more, which is why I always try to retweet these guys because I want my audience to see what they have to say. I'd love to give them a voice. So I think you can fight the battles big and small, but I think fighting back even gently, even to say, well, you know, this is what this person is saying about it. Maybe something we can discuss. by the way, and also calling out the lack of credibility of the people who are being held up

in front of us as the reason we have to take these classes or we have to apologize for being white. I mean, even ex-Kendee, the other night when Amy Kony Barrett was announced, the first thing he did was tweet out something saying, I'm not talking about Amy Coney Barrett. She's got two kids. She adopted from Haiti. She got seven kids, but two of them adopted from Haiti. I'm not talking about Amy Coney Barrett, but white people have a history of but basically stealing black babies, colonizing them, and to the great consternation of the black family. And he goes on, it was worse than I'm actually reiterating.

I mean, this is not someone anyone should be listening to. This is not somebody who should be telling you what's racist. That was incredibly racist. That what he said was incredibly racist and a sacrifice of his own credibility. Or just go read Coleman Hughes' response to how to be an anti-racist. that book by Kendi. It's amazing. But people are busy. They're leading their lives. But if you really care about this stuff, study up. Because the fight is on. And if you think these values, which I think almost all of them boil down to the First Amendment, the ability to be who you want

and say what you want and think how you want, this is America, requires preparation. You have to read. You have to get knowledgeable, get smart. And be open-minded to the other side's arguments. Listen. And if there's something you need to learn, learn it and be open about it and be open about your growth as you go down that lane. But you care about this. You can't sit back anymore. Yeah, you're absolutely right. Good point about credibility and hypocrisy. Ibrose Kendi is someone who is an anti-capitalist. He believes that that is a way that you have to be anti-racist. He makes $20,000 per virtual session that he gives at universities for, you know, 45 minutes. And so that's also a good thing to look at when you hear people like Bernie Sanders. or Robin DiAngelo or Ibrahimskindy say, you know, anti-capitalism is the way to go for equality and they've got three houses of their own. Maybe that's a good reason to take a step back and say maybe they're not supposed to be the moral authority in my life. And think about it in terms of your children. Like if my schools that my kids are at started to say what Robin DeAngelo says,

if they started to say to my children, this is what she wants white people to do. Every time you walk into a room with a black person, the first thing you should start with is, I'm sorry. Sorry for my racism. Sorry for my white supremacy, the white supremacy of America. And then you should repeat that on the opposite end of the conversation. I would pull my kids so fast it would make your husband because what are you doing? You're turning them into little bigots. That's what you're doing. You're telling them that race is everything and that the white people are bad. You're the oppressors. And you're telling black people, black kids who have no semblance in their head that they are somehow victims that they are. Right? You need you need people to go in there like a

Thomas Soul, like a Larry Elder, to say, all of us can do whatever we want to do and here's how we do it. Something uplifting. You don't want little kids, black or white being taught that there's this huge difference based on skin color, which they can't control and somebody needs to be ashamed and somebody else needs to be victimized. It's totally unhealthy. guess what? It's unhealthy for adults too. Yep. Yep. You are absolutely right. Well, thank you so much for all of that analysis. I personally am really looking forward to your podcast. I have missed you being out there. I mean, I've been following you still, but have missed you having a voice in this arena because I just think it's so important. I hope you do interviews too because you are probably

the best interviewer in the industry. So I highly encourage people to go subscribe to your podcast. Can they do that yet? Can they subscribe? Yeah. So if you just Google, or you know search in the podcast app, Megan Kelly Show. I'll pop up and then I guess I'm new to the podcast world, but I understand it's subscribe, um, download. You have to do both of those things. And give it a five-star reading. And then I please leave me a note in the reviews because I have been reading them and it's been super fun. A lot of my audience has been with me for a long time and they'll reference old interviews or they met me at some convention. And it's super fun. It's a walk down memory lane in a way. And, uh, Tom, loving it. And I hope, I hope folks come over.

Yeah. Well, thank you. so much. Definitely go subscribe to everyone. And thank you, Megan, for taking the time to talk to me. Thanks for having me. See you soon. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the

answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.