Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 326 | From Woke to Awake | Guest: Dave Rubin

Episode Date: November 13, 2020

Fellow BlazeTV host Dave Rubin joins to talk about all things current events, from COVID to the 2020 election. How did a former Bernie Sanders supporter find himself voting for Trump in 2020? And is there any chance left for Trump to take the White House? Rubin, himself still a liberal in several ways, is proof that unity is possible among those with differing opinions. Today's Sponsors Demonstrate God's love in a tangle way to children in need with Samaritan's Purse, visit http://samaritanspurse.org/occ to learn how to pack a shoebox or build one online. Try the best-tasting protein bar ever with Built Bar: Go to https://builtbar.com/ and use promo code “RELATABLE” to get 20% off your first order. Protect your online privacy with ExpressVPN, get an extra 3 months free at http://expressvpn.com/ALLIE. -- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Friday. Today I am talking to my friend Dave Rubin. He's been on the podcast before he is one of the best people to talk to, the easiest people to talk to. He has a lot of insight when it comes to conservatism versus leftism since he was on the left and moved to the right. He's got some interesting projections about the election and what's going to happen and the effect of positive effect of Trumpism on America. So I'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation before we get into it. I do want to take a quick break. Okay, without further ado, here is Dave Rubin. Dave, thanks so much for joining me. Ali, it's good to be with you, sitting with another human being. I know. It's so crazy.

And we're not wearing masks. But I think... I know. I think we're distanced enough, though. I mean, I did do the measuring tape, and I think it just makes the cut. So hopefully it's okay. Yes. We don't want to infect each other. Just with good ideas. We don't. But I'm not, I'm not sick. And I think some people have lost the science behind COVID because you actually have to be sick to infect someone. I think some people think, like, taking your mask off makes you have COVID.

And it makes you spread it to other people. Let me get this straight. If two people who aren't sick are in contact with each other or just close to each other, they can't infect each other? Science. Science. I know. I didn't go to school for it. Yeah.

I don't have a degree in it. I'm not. I don't have a white coat or anything like that, but I think that's how it works. I was a political science major. Oh, there you go. So there's science in that term. And so that actually works. Well, thank you so much for being here.

You've been on my show before. I've been on your show. And so I think everyone knows who you are. But can you tell us just quickly about your show and about your book? Yeah. Well, my show is the Rubin Report, which is just an old school interview show. Yeah. And I kind of started doing long form interviews before it was cool, like sort of when nobody was doing it.

Now it feels like everybody and their brother has a podcast. I read a stat yesterday that actually more people have podcasts than listen to podcast. What? That was a joke, Stucky. That was a joke. You see what I did there? Oh my gosh. I was like, how is that possible?

But at the same time, I know a lot of people who have podcasts that no one listens to. So I was like, maybe it's true. There's some mathematical theory in that could work. But everyone's sort of got a podcast now. And, you know, some are good. Some are. It is what it is. But really what I was doing about six years ago when I decided to do the long form interview,

it was just, it was when Vine was starting and Snapchat and all of these things. And everything was getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And I was just like, this is making me feel dumb. I don't like this. Like maybe I'm too old for it. I don't know. And I just thought, I want to sit down with people and talk about stuff and see what happens. And that's what I started doing.

I started the interview version of the show in September of 2015. so it's a little over five years ago. And, you know, I've had the pleasure and honor of sitting down with great thinkers and philosophers and politicians and all sorts of stuff. And I guess what sort of really put me on the map was that, you know, I was a big lefty and I was a Bernie supporter and all that. And I went from woke to awake. Yeah, and that's kind of what your book is about, right? Yeah. Okay, so tell us a little bit about that and what inspired you to write it.

So in essence, don't burn this book. The idea is, well, it's what the subtitle is, which is, thinking for yourself in an age of unreason. I just want people to think for themselves. I mean, I lay out in the book all of my political positions, but I don't need you, literally you, I don't need you to agree with me on all of those positions. I know that we disagree on some of those positions and actually that's fine and it's not just fine. It's what America is supposed to be. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like we can hold positions very close to our heart that are very important to us. But if you truly want to live in a country that America is supposed to be a pluralistic

of now 350 million people from every walk on earth and from every culture and ethnicity and all those things. Well, then you have to accept that some people are going to think differently than you and you're going to have to create a space where they can live differently than you. Yeah. And that really is the point of the book. And the funny thing is that what I think I lay out in there is a lot of common sense stuff. Like there's nothing in that book that I don't think a sane person would say is radical or extremist. And yet the pushback against, me constantly is that I'm some crazy right-wing radical. And it's like, well, I am defending free speech and I am defending open inquiry and, you know, the constitution, things that liberals used to

before. And now liberals have sort of just gone off the deep end. And have been for forever. I always tell people, you're not the crazy one. Like, you're not the radical one for defending the things that people have defended for millennia. And in this country, for centuries, things like free speech, the left has moved to the left. And a lot of people say that, you know, I don't, leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me. Do you feel like that? Or do you feel like you really kind of made an evolution in your philosophy and your worldview? I think it's two things. So the Reagan line, I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party left me. So like that is true. Like these people, what is the Democratic Party now? Well, first of, it's hard to define what

that is. Because is the Democratic Party Joe Biden, like whatever that is, like an old Democrat who kind of doesn't know what he believes anymore and has cognitive problems and they sort of handed him the election and is that the Clinton-O-Bama machine? Like, is that the Democratic Party? Or is it what I actually think it is? It's the progressive sort of lunacy, the AOCs and the Bernies and the giant government answers

for everything and identity politics, all the reverse ideas of what true liberalism are and what America was founded on. So in one sense, the party left me because it moved so far left. Although I've been trying to say that the left-right thing doesn't really make sense anymore in a way. They move to collectivism and they move to big government. I think is like the easiest way to explain it.

But that's not the full story because I did also move on something. So like I've definitely moved right on economics for sure. Because you were a Bernie supporter. So you supported some forms of collectivism at one point. I mean, I think that's why people care about what I do is that I've just been honest along the road. Like you can watch videos where I'm waking. up to this stuff. Yeah. And I'm talking about it and I'm talking about it honestly. And I really thought, and maybe this was just like naivete or something, but I thought that as I was

saying what's going on in my life and what my thoughts are, I thought the lefties were going to be like, oh, yeah, like maybe we should have some self-reflection. Maybe this identity politics stuff is the reverse of liberalism. And a lot of them did join me on that adventure, right? So a lot of the bulk of my audience, I think, is sort of what I would say are like retired or resound. behind lefties who are now in effect new conservative, something like that. But I definitely shifted to the right on economics. Like I've started two businesses in the last couple of years. I know that if you lower taxes, I can do more with my businesses and I can pay my people

more and I pay for all their health insurance and benefits. And I love doing that, but I don't do it. It's not just out of the goodness of my heart. It's also that when I treat my guys, well, they work harder for me. Yeah. And then we can build something bigger. The idea that the government just needs more and more of your stuff so that it can do things that you may or may not agree with is crazy. But that's what the left's answer is for everything.

They will constantly tell you, you know, this is an evil patriarchal society and capitalism is evil and the system is evil and everyone's corrupt. And what's the answer? We better make it bigger. We better give it more money. So I would say that's the one place that I really shifted. Pretty much everything else that I believe I think is pretty close to where it was. before. And when you were on the left, I'm sure you got pushed back from people on the right. Yeah. And now that you're considered on the right, you get pushed back from people on the left,

which do you think was the harsher criticism? Oh, Stucky. I think you know the answer to this one. I do, but I want to hear it for me. Yeah, yeah. Well, look, when I was on the left, let's say, one of the things that the left does, as you know, is you can just dismiss all of the people who argue with you because they're bigots and racist and homophob. So it's like, oh, a bigot doesn't like me. A Nazi doesn't like me. If anything, it makes you feel even loftier and more confident in what you think. I've got the right enemies, basically. I mean, you're fighting Nazis all day. You're pretty spectacular. You know what I mean? You're like Captain America. This is amazing. You're punching Nazis. You're Indiana Jones. Yeah. Every single day. When I shifted, the hatred that I get from the

lefties is incredible. It's bananas. But, but, but, But it goes to the heart of what is wrong with leftism. They have decided, in effect, if you don't agree with us on all of these things, like not nine out of ten. You got to go ten out of ten. And not only ten out of ten, you got to do it the second we do it. Yeah. You know what I mean?

So it's like if we shift on one position, you got about a ten minute window to join us. Otherwise, you're the bad guy too. And yet what's interesting on the right is on the right, there's all sorts of people who think all sorts of different things. and they're also not obsessed with politics. And that's one of the things that I really like about, like I would describe myself at this point as sort of like a new conservative, something like that.

You know, I think there's probably a couple buckets of what conservatives can be. And I have no problem if someone says, Dave, you're a conservative at this point. Like, if anything, I like it. Because it's like, I can't really say I'm a liberal anymore, even though it may be technically true by the 1750 definition of classical liberalism.

But like, you know how people understand the term now. Right. And I tried for. You know, I was always telling Stephen Crowder, Crowder, you got to stop saying the liberals. You got to talk about the lefties. Yeah. And Dennis Prager and a whole bunch of other people we know have been fighting this too. Right.

But at some point, like the rubber kind of meets the road and here we are. But I would say people on the right, because their worldview generally isn't shaped just around politics. So like I think you do a really nice job of this in that you talk about faith. You talk about things that are outside of the political world. So you're not hysterical. by every political decision because you know that your salvation doesn't come from politics. My salvation doesn't come from politics. My meaning and purpose doesn't come from politics in a weird way.

So, if you disagree on those things, then, you know, it's okay because it's not central to your worldview. Of course. And by the way, I have no doubt that we have other philosophical differences in terms of our worldview. But that's okay. Yeah. You know what I mean?

That's okay. And that's what that, it is literally what being human is about. Right. That's the purpose of being a human with the brain to think things through and come to conclusions yourself and all of those things. So I think people on the right actually really revel in that idea. And it's not to say people on the right can't try to destroy people and there are never Trumpers and Lincoln Project versus the Trump people and people are angry at Romney.

And that's all sort of like little political positioning kind of stuff. But generally speaking, I think people on the right, like people on the right like having the debate about abortion. People on the right like having a debate about taxes and government and states' rights. People on the left say, hey, you're with me or against me. It's not debatable as what we hear. You hear about abortion, for example, which obviously is something that is very important to me. It's not just a political issue. It's a moral and theological issue. And as undebatable as I think, you know, sanctity of life is inside the womb, I still want to engage and debate someone on it. Because quite frankly, I think that the pro-life position is very strong.

I'll debate anyone on it. But what you often hear from the pro-choice and pro-abortion side is that bodily autonomy is undebatable. We don't want to debate you when people had tried to say, you know, a couple of years ago, please, AOC, debate me, debate me, people saying that and you come on my show and all this stuff. It's not just that she was afraid to do that. But I think leftism sees that as immoral because like you said, when you see the opposition as a Nazi, are you really going to do it? debate a Nazi about fascism? Of course you're not. You're going to punch them. Well, not only should you not debate the Nazi, but if you were to be seen with the Nazi, debating Nazi, having a conversation with a Nazi, whatever it might be, well, then you're a Nazi too. So that's what they've done.

And by the way, this is not a new idea. This is what communism and socialism and Marxism create. It creates finding enemies everywhere, which is why just in the last week, you know, Biden is supposedly the presidential act. We can get into that if you want. But what was like the first thing that came out after it? It was suddenly the lists. You know, Pete Buttigieg's campaign manager, I think, created this Trump accountability. Two of his previous staffers. Yeah.

Yeah. So then they've got lists of people who were co-conspirators and all of these things. And it's like, this is the most anti-O-C also talked about lists. Yeah. It's like this is the most anti-American thing. And the weird thing is. And truth and reconciliation commission. Yeah.

That's going to work out for everybody. The bizarre truth is that. These people are everything that they purport Trump to be that he is not. Trump doesn't have lists. Trump isn't trying to destroy anybody. Trump, every time he tweets, you can get a thousand blue check lefties telling him he's going to burn in hell and that they want him to go to jail and all of these things. And all this follows.

You think it's going to be the other way? You think it's going to be the other way? I don't think so. Well, I mean, we've seen that. I mean, we believed, as conservatives, we believed that Barack Obama, we believe just as strongly that Barack Obama was destructive, divisive, bad for America, policy-wise, as leftists believed Trump to be. Now, most of us weren't as hysterical and his hyperbolic about it, but we believe just as strongly in the destructiveness of the policies that Obama pushed forward as leftists do

about Trump and Trumpian policies. And yet, you didn't see this kind of reaction after Obama was in office. We didn't say, okay, we need a list for all of these scandals. We need a list people who supported the slowest economic recovery in history. Like we need a list of people who supported identity politics. It was no. Like let's engage with these ideas. Let's let the best idea win. But like you said, leftism is against that.

It's always been against that. And it is fueled off of resentment, which is why it causes violence, which is why it causes economic and social decay. Always in the name of compassion and reconciliation, though. Well, you know, one of the things. things that I said the day after the 2016 election, my studio at my house that you've been to, wasn't even built yet. So I had to do a little thing off my webcam. And what I said was, if you guys, now that Trump is president, whether you like it or not, you better stop calling

him Hitler because it's not what you're doing to him. It's what you're doing to yourself. So you call him Hitler. Okay, he obviously isn't Hitler. But putting that aside, it's what you're doing to yourself, because what if you find out that over the course of the next four years, which I think is what we did find out, that he's actually a pretty decent president. He governed in many ways as sort of a centrist conservative, except that he got things done as a conservative, which usually conservatives aren't that good at, right? He did a lot of stuff with the courts. He got rid of regulation until COVID, the economy was really chugging along. Well, what if you find out that he doesn't murder people and put people in camps and do all the horrific things that you've concocted

in your brain? It's what you've done to yourself because you've painted yourself into a corner. You can't suddenly be like, you know, it's a couple of years later. And that Hitler guy I've been screaming about, he's not that Hitler or he's not that bad. Because then you look like an idiot. And that's why they always double down. Yeah. That's why the same people who got everything wrong four years ago and then for the last four years have gotten everything wrong.

It's why they're still getting it all wrong now. Because they created an imaginary orange Hitler who doesn't even exist. And they know that that's the thing they're against no matter what. And that basically overrides whatever. logic is left in there. But at the same time, we've been hearing calls for unity, not just from Joe Biden himself, Kamala Harris. And a lot of Democrats, Michelle Obama pulled what I call a classic Obama saying, let's come together with the people who voted for hate. So on the one hand, you're trying to say, oh, we're so loving and kind, we're conciliatory. And everyone who didn't vote

the way that I want them to, they are hateful bigots. It's the same thing Obama did for eight years. What are we supposed to do with that? Well, look, winning, I suppose, winning, at least in the temporary way that they've won for now, let's say, is a strange drug. Because let's just say the results were exactly the reverse. Just whatever numbers were all buying right now, let's just say it was completely the reverse. They would be saying burn down the country. They would literally, I mean, why were all of these stores? And they have been doing it.

It's not that they just say, you got to give them credit for, you know, actually doing some of the stuff that they say. You know, there's something, there's at least an honesty to that. But really what would they be saying right now? They would be saying Hitler, the far right has won, the system is evil, all of the things that I discussed. Capitalism is evil. You know, this is it. This is the civil war is here.

That's what they would be saying. But now that they believe that they've won, and I'm not so sure that they've won, but now that they believe that they've won, now let's reach out. But what they don't, what they don't mean is, they don't mean let's reach out and and treat you as equals and welcome you. What they mean is behave, behave. We're back in power. We've got lists.

Submit. Shut up. Don't say anything. You're a bunch of bigots. And I think if Trump, regardless of what happens here, if Trump has done one incredible thing, he showed people how to fight back. That's it. That doesn't make him the greatest person in the history of the world and it doesn't

make him whatever. But it does, he showed people. He modeled. We needed it to be modeled. You can fight back against the media. You can fight back against big tech. You can fight back against the establishment. My ability to do this and talk.

about these things with a degree of confidence. It's not that I was watching Trump like, oh my God, how does he do it? But it's like, oh, you can do it and survive. So now I do it. And by me doing it, I know that affects other people and hopefully that affects other people. And it's a very Jordan Peterson-style thing. You have no idea how much power you have

if you just start saying what you believe. And I think Trump, that will be his greatest legacy no matter what happens now. Yeah. Let's talk about Trump. You did not, I'm guessing, vote for him in 2016. I didn't. I voted for Gary Johnson and I should be judged accordingly.

Yes. A lot of people have revealed to me their deep dark secret that they voted for Evan McMullen. Yeah, they're all regretting that. That guy. People are realizing that he's just as much of crazy radical leftist in some ways making his own list as actual liberals are. But you voted for him in 2020, correct? Very happily voted for it. And I'm guessing we kind of have already articulated the reasons why you decided to do that. Let's talk about what you think about the so-called results of the election and what you think is going to happen? Well, first off, I would be okay if I voted for someone and they lost legitimately. Yeah. I just want to be very clear about that. I know that's a very

controversial statement these days, but I would accept the results. And as I said before, by the way, I wouldn't be screaming in the streets because I don't think politics is everything. If anything, if Biden, let's, before we get into what I think is going to happen here, if it comes out that Biden will win this thing, like really legitimately won this thing, well, then I know I have worked to do. You know what I mean? Like I mean that like in terms of my show and the ideas that I'm putting forth and all of that. Like I will, I kind of like being in the opposition.

I think it would actually change me a little bit in a way. And we always kind of feel like we are in the opposition. By the way, we always feel like the underdogs, even if we've got our guy in the, in the White House because we kind of are. Well, because right, because even if there is a second Trump administration term, you'd still be against big Hollywood. You'd still be against big tech and all of those things. So I'm kind of comfortable with that.

And again, I don't have to. win to accept that America is a good place, which is the reverse of what these guys do. That being said, it is, look, the night of the election, it was looking really good for Trump, and we saw all of these states that are now very close that have been called for Biden. Suddenly they all stopped. Suddenly they all stopped. We all know that that's a fact. They all stopped their votes.

Since when do we do that? Since when do you not continue counting? All at the same time. Now, what they would say is what I've heard people push back and say is, look, some of these states, like in Pennsylvania, for example, the GOP-led legislature refused to pass a law to say that you could count mail-in votes before election day. And so some of these states had rules that you had to count the election day votes and then count the mail-in votes. So that's what they would say caused the spike in Michigan and Wisconsin, for example, those mail-in votes that came in that we knew would skew Biden. So what do you say to that?

Right. So we knew the mail-in would skew Biden because of COVID and that they were really pushing it and all that. as Bill Barr, the Attorney General said in September, there's a great interview with him and Wolf Blitzer. Yes, I saw that. We just played it on my show yesterday where he in effect is saying we have never tried mail-in ballots to this extent. We know they are rife with fraud. He actually gave a couple examples of it. So I'm not saying that I'm actually not saying that anything illegal happened yet. I'm really not. What I'm saying is there's a reason to think about it. And what is making me more confident that something happened. And by the way, The beauty and weakness of America is sort of being illustrated right now because the beauty of America is all the states decide how they want to do things. That's a beautiful thing, right? And I know you're all for that too. On the other hand, with all of these crazy rules that are inconsistent, it makes people kind of bananas. So for example, in Pennsylvania, they did, the attorney general, who of course is a lefty, decided that you don't even have to have your ballots postmarked by election day.

Yeah. That seems like kind of shady, right? Like it doesn't matter which side is going to. but like, so that's an inconsistency in a rule that's different than Arizona and everything else. And the fact that he didn't really place, he didn't allow us to place a lot of faith in him when he said two days before Election Day on Twitter, hey, when all the votes are counted, Trump is going to lose. How do you know that? He literally said that. I mean, people need to find the tweet. Yeah. Yeah. You should maybe put the tweet up in this very show because that's what the Attorney General of Pennsylvania said before the election. Trump is going to lose. By the way, the Attorney General of Arizona, now they're coming out with all of her tweets. And years ago, she was calling all Trump supporters neo-Nazis and the rest of it. So the point is, the point is, I don't believe in perfect systems. I believe in human infallibility. I believe that there can be mistakes and not only mistakes, but intentional, you know, moves to skew things.

So with all of this, it's not evidence yet, but things are starting to pop up. Now they're hearing all this stuff about the Dominion electronic voting systems and all this stuff. The point is, let's explore this stuff. This is why we have a judicial branch. That's why we have a process. And at the end, I promise you, Allie, and I know you would too. At the end, you know, if it's January 15th, and they're like, we look through everything. We couldn't find anything. These 11,000 sworn affidavits, they all turned out to be nonsense and everything else. Well, then Biden will be president. And guess what? Life will go on. Maybe not in a capitalist free society, but it will go on. Yeah. And I also think I talked to Jenna Ellis and she's a, you know, she's a Trump lawyer. And we talked about how the point of the litigation is not to change the outcome of the election. It is to, it's to see if the fraud is legitimate, not necessarily if it's decisive. It may be decisive and legitimate or it could be legitimate and not decisive. Absolutely. And so there could be a certain number of votes that need to be thrown out because they were illegally cast. I mean, we've already seen evidence of dead people voting, of. people who didn't actually live in the state anymore, getting an absentee vote and getting to vote. I've seen examples of that. That alone, even if there's one vote like that, is enough to

take it to court, in my opinion, whether or not this was Biden or Trump doing it. Well, but that's, see, what's interesting about that is, look at the way the media is framing it right now, the headline of the New York Times yesterday, you know, there's something to the effect of there's no fraud. The election has no fraud. Or what they keep saying is there's no widespread fraud. Well, I guess that also depends on how you define widespread. right? Like what does that really mean? There's no technical definition of that related to American elections and states rights and all of those things. So they use all of this Orwellian language. So you're like, oh, well, I guess there is no widespread fraud. And then you look at what's going on in Michigan

and you're like, but wait a minute, all these dead people are voting. Like there are weird things. But the fact that the media is going all in on there's nothing to see here. You know, there's an exploding firework factory behind us. But there's nothing to see here. Please move on. There's nothing to see here. They literally did that in Kenosha. These are mostly. Yeah, mostly peaceful protest, huge fires behind us. Yeah. Yeah. So because they're doing that, I think it's actually adding fuel to the fire of the people on

the right who are going, no, no, no, no, no, let me get this straight. The people who lie to us about everything. The New York Times and CNN, they've all been unmasked over these last couple of years. They lied us everything. But this, but this time they're telling us the truth. They're telling us the truth about the fact that Hitler is not going to be reelected. Like, this is the one they're actually being honest. It just doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense. And they do this with everything. They repeat the same talking points, all of the outlets and the, you know, the hosts on these various shows. They all basically say the same thing, at least on the left. And there's just no journalistic curiosity at all. I think if they said, look, we investigated all these claims because we care about the integrity of the election too. You know, we couldn't find anything. But look, we support the litigation because we supported the Russian investigation, which, by the way, so did I in the same.

since that I always said, if there was Russian collusion by the Trump campaign, I want to know that. Of course. And so I feel the same way now. It might not determine the outcome or change the outcome, but I want to know. Allie, I have a good friend who I can't name his name because he's an actual friend of mine, but he's a public person, you know, a blue check Twitter person, big Trump derangement stuff, whatever. Okay, he's very popular, right?

He called me in the middle of the Russia gate stuff. And he was very angry because he was saying that I wasn't. saying enough about Russiagate and that it's obviously true and all of this stuff. And I said, well, what is true? And he said, this is now two years ago. He said, well, Donald Trump Jr. had lunch with a Russian, blah, blah, blah, blah on the Upper East Side. Do you remember that for like a day that Trump Jr. had a hard time keeping up with all of it. But there was like a three day span where everybody, you see, it's proof. Trump Jr. had a 15 minute lunch with a Russian. It turned out to be absolutely nothing. But right now, that very same person is telling me that now

the results of the election. There's no reason to look into anything. Don't even question. Yeah. So the very people who, you know, and we see this. And this is why they've all been unmasked. That it's like, wait a minute, you ran on something that we know not only was fraudulent, but then led to a sham impeachment, right? Right before Corona, by the way, right before COVID. So it's like if you, if you're angry that Trump was, I was off the ball maybe, I don't think that's necessarily a valid argument, but that's what they'll say. He wasn't paid. Well, it's because you guys were dragging him in for a for a sham impeachment. But the point is all of these people who said the Russians have taken over our elections and are manipulating us through Twitter and Facebook and Trump is somehow involved in all of that. Now there's literally

nothing we can look at right now. Yeah. That's that's bananas. Like that's actually banana. From the day that he was elected, Hillary Clinton said that it was illegitimate. She wrote a whole book called What Happened. And it didn't have anything to do with the fact that she didn't go to Michigan in Wisconsin. It didn't have anything to do with her, you know, unlikeability or whatever it was. Her failure as a candidate, it had to do somewhat with conspiracy theories of how Trump got away with Russia, white supremacy, internalized misogyny with women, had nothing to do with, you know, the effectiveness of her as a candidate. That's what they did for four years. It was illegitimate. It was either illegitimate or because of racism. But now when we're saying, hey, we're not going to burn

things down. We're not freaking out. We're not really worried even. We just want to know the integrity of our elections. You're a conspiracy theorist and you're dangerous and we're going to put you on a list. It's crazy. They want to make us all feel like Alex Jones. That's really what they're trying to do that if you even look into this, forget the list. You're also bananas. You're insane in effect. Like you're a crazy person with a tinfoil hat. What I would say, the real silver lining at the moment, Like if anyone's watching this going, I just still feel weird about the whole thing. You know, or let's say potentially I voted for Trump, but like I just, I'm worried about what's going to happen. Trump has beat the media and the political establishment and the machine at every single turn.

Yeah. The amount of videos that you've seen on MSNBC, the walls are closing in. The end days are here. Everyone's turning on him, which they're doing right now. The Trump, Maloney is telling him to back out. It's all just made up theater nonsense. The silver lining, I think, is. is that because he has beat them systematically,

or systemically, depending on which way you like it, the fact that he has done that at every turn about impeachment, about Russia, about Ukraine, all of these things, right? I don't think he came this far to know that at the end, you're at the final boss of the video game, that he didn't have a secret weapon. I think he probably knows things.

And even in the last half hour, right, before we started this, he went on this Twitter threat about the Dominion software. and that it was reversing votes. So it's like, okay, well, now the rubber's about to meet the road, man. You can't just say this stuff in all caps if it ain't true. So if you know it's true and that's why you tweeted it, well, then we're going to start needing to see some receipts. And I suspect they're there.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. And he's just like literally going crazy right now and tweeting in all caps. So you think it's a possibility that he could still be president. Oh, absolutely. You do? Yeah. I mean, I mean, why not?

Like if they're going to uncover these. things and each day like these weird things keep leaking out and it gets to the courts and the courts actually do their job well then it's it's what we're saying i mean in essence the courts will either say okay this is all nonsense or it's not and if it's not and it's come out to a degree that is widespread or at least enough to flip some of these states well then i can't imagine yeah the meltdown i mean we saw so i don't know if you heard about this but covid actually took a break So COVID said, you know what? You guys, I'm going to go celebrate too. You guys go celebrate in the street. I'm not going to infect any of you. And so what we saw was masses of people. I saw this girl. She had her mask on. She took down her mask. Yeah, drink the champagne, past the bottle of someone else pulled up her mask. Perfect depiction of liberal logic on COVID. And you saw a bunch of people in the media saying, you know, like Chris Hayes, we need this. We, you know what? Wear your mask. But, We need this. We need these mosh pits. This is just, you know, a dawn of hope and opportunity for America.

We're out of that dark, dark part of our history. Because COVID could only spread depending on your political ideology. We've learned that it is that it is very woke. So what do you think the media, and now it seems to be back to COVID concern. Right. So we had two days. So on Saturday morning was when they called, you know, the AP called the election. Again, it's not called in terms of the electoral college. The constant, you know, nothing has been ratified here. But in effect, that's when the AP did it. And now the other news outlets have done it. So we had about 48 hours of celebrations. We're drinking champagne.

We're spitting in each other's mouths. I mean, it was just absolutely bananas. But then what I think what they thought in effect was that, oh, Trump's just going to lie down. Like, it's here and that's it. But what happened by Monday was Trump decided to fight back. Now, you may not like that. You may think it's illegitimate. You may think he's a nutbag.

and some of that may be true at some level. But because he fought back, as I said before, he modeled to people how to fight back. So there was a real feeling amongst like, you know, our chattering class of like, oh, maybe it is over over the weekend. It doesn't feel like that now. People are suddenly like, no, I am going to fight this to the end.

But again, if he loses, then we'll accept it. But like people are standing up and we owe him credit for that. Yeah. As individuals, as Americans, we owe him credit for that. Just because the system tells you something, it doesn't mean it's true. And it's like, look what's happening with COVID right now. Now they're making it sound like it's worse than ever before. Right.

And now we've got to start national federal lockdown. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it odd that not one hospital has been overrun in the United States? And yet we're hearing that that is what's happening right now. There were a couple stories like that right before the election. And, you know, I really try not to be a conspiracy theory. I was talking to a friend about this last night that it's so easy to start jumping to conclusions that you're not.

You don't know or true because we don't have a media that does tell us the truth. And everything is so political and everything is used as a bludgeon against Trump that you can't even trust them when they say that the hospitals are going to be overwhelmed because they weren't. So why would we believe this now? And so you're constantly trying to be like, okay, does this connect to this? And what's really behind this? You almost have to. Allie, do you remember two weeks to flatten the curve? That was eight months ago, eight months ago.

And now they're telling us, no, we just need six more weeks of a federal lockdown. It's nonsense. And I think what happened. I mean, again, this is where the conspiracy stuff, it's like, well, now Trump started to gain momentum this week. So then what did they decide? COVID is, you know, because three days ago, we've got a vaccine from Pfizer, 90%, Biden's going to be president.

Everyone will be happy. The market is up. Everything is looking good. Yeah. Can I ask you something? Do you consider yourself a journalist? No. Yeah, me neither.

And yet look what we're doing here. Yeah. And I'm constantly left sort of perplexed by that. I am not a journalist. I am not a fact finder on the ground. Yeah. I tell people what I think. I read stories and I try to hand it to people in like a decent, honest way.

Yet I think even having this conversation is more journalism. Yeah. At least the definition of journalism that I think people think is journalism. It is more than what journalists are giving us. And that's a really sad state of affairs, but that's where we're at. Yeah, just because there's at least some kind of curiosity. And all we're saying, again, is that we just want truth.

I get people asking me all the time. Like, where do you get your information? And the fact of the matter is is that a lot of times there's not one outlet that I can just read a story from and say, okay, I've got all the details on this. I've got to read the Blades. I've got to read the Daily Wire or a National Review. And they say that, okay, we're on the conservative side. But you've got to read those as a subject.

to redeem the New York Times and the Washington Post because while they are claiming objectivity, they're just as biased as any right-wing or left-wing blog. The New York Times literally ran a front-page Sunday cover story about how YouTubers, including me with a big picture, were leading people to the alt-right. Everything that I have done on my show publicly and everything that I believe personally has been completely against identity politics. marijuana of that. Yeah, I know.

I'm the gate. Well, I like when people say I'm the gateway drug to waking up to conservatism. I'm okay with that, but not I'm the gateway drug, not I'm the joint that'll lead you to the all right, which obviously isn't true. And there's if I was to play identity politics for myself, there's a million reasons that that wouldn't be true, right? Yeah.

But putting that aside, that was a front page cover story that YouTubers including me and Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and Phil DeFranco and also a famous libertarian economist Milton Friedman that were leading people to the alt right. Now, in the very article itself, at the end of the article, they track this kid watching YouTube. So they sort of frame it like he's a centrist. Then he starts getting into the right. But then, guess what? You're not going to believe this out.

He's saved by lefty YouTubers. And he becomes a good lefty at the end. That's how the article ends. So the very premise of the article that in effect YouTube leads people to the right was debunked by the article. Anyway, I mentioned this not to make it about me, but the point is that I know what the New York Times does with cover stories. So if and then they also did the enforced monogamy hit piece on Jordan Peterson that he was trying to get women to be in some sort of handmade's tale situation, which was the reverse. All he was saying was that enforced monogamy, meaning marriage is a good thing for societies. Yeah.

It's an organizing principle that allows us to move. Which is objectively true. Of course it's true. Of course it's true that it allows us to move from generation to generation with families and all of those things. But those things are very scary to lefties who want, you know, this this sort of endless secular. craziness. The point is, just because something's on the front page of the New York Times, it doesn't mean it's true. And if anything, it probably means it's not true at this point. Yeah. I wish that wasn't true. Yeah. Yeah. But the search for truth is very difficult. And if

people, and unfortunately, I do think it encourages people to latch on to actual conspiracy theories in some ways. But the media has kind of created that monster. When you feel like you cannot trust the people that you are hearing are the only reputable journalist, the people who are going to bring you truth and reality. And all you're getting is blatant partisanship and a refusal to investigate anything that might go against their narrative, especially when it's coming to things like COVID. When they don't say anything about the mass protests and the riots and the marches and all of that, but they're saying, you know, it's too dangerous for kids to go to school. They need to be in front of a screen for eight hours a day. You know what? You probably can't sing at church, but it's okay

if you want to march on Washington for whatever cause, at that point people not only feel like there's a bias, but that there's an animus towards you. There's an animus towards people who go to church, towards kids who need to be in school, and, you know, go to work, whatever it is, and that we're just being run and dictated by a bunch of elites that are totally disconnected from our reality. That creates not just a distrust, but a resentment and a hatred between the two classes, don't you think? Absolutely.

And by the way, doesn't it sort of feel that right where we're at right now with the election sort of hung up and and the media going all in and the alternative media trying to fight it. In a weird way, doesn't it feel like this is exactly where we were supposed to be? Like that the process, the thing that we've all been fighting and talking about and all of these things, like the thing that literally brought you and I together, right, through this. Like I didn't know you four years ago, but the thing that we were sort of fighting and then it's like one day I see this girl, Ali Stucky, I don't know who this is, but she's making a lot of sense. And the next thing, you know, you're on my show and we have audiences that are awake to these ideas.

that whole thing feels like it was all funneled to right now where we are now in between election day and inauguration day and what the hell will happen. Yeah. And again, that feels sort of conspiratorial or whatever, but it just is this game, what Trump was trying to do here. And it's very bizarre. How did this crazy-haired orange man become the one that was going to like fight this thing? Yeah. How? They'll have to study this for years and years to come.

Right. But here we are. And that's why I'm not, it's another reason why I'm not crazy because I don't feel crazy. I may be crazy, but I don't feel crazy. You know what I mean? Because it just feels like, oh, well, it was supposed to be 10 days after the election and we wouldn't know what would happen because look what else has happened over the last, you know, four years, but especially the last year.

You know, it's only nine months ago that we used to go out of our houses and go to places like movie theaters. Remember you'd go and there's a big screen and you could sit there and eat popcorn with people. Can't do that anymore. But we're supposed to accept that that's normal. Yeah. And we're just supposed to ignore the fact that there's a real life consequence to things like lockdowns too and just say, well, actually only death by the virus is the bad death. Death by suicide and depression and loneliness.

That's all. Which you're all spiking. Yes. And death by cancer and all of those things because people aren't getting the proper treatment. But is there any even beyond the outcome of the election, which you believe could switch. I don't know. I don't know. I just want to. I don't know. I just I believe there is a chance. Right. And I think we both want the same thing, though. We want the integrity of our elections preserved. We think it's good that Trump is fighting this. I really do. I was telling someone the other day that it's kind of like I felt after the election as soon as it happened and it looked like the next day, okay, Biden really might win this thing. We don't really know what's going to happen. I felt like it was a breakup with with Trump being our president. And I was like, if. first. I was like, okay, you know what, I'm fine. No, I'm fine. No, I wanted, I wanted to be single,

too. No, it's good. I'm going to be better off without him. And honestly, I didn't really like his tweets and it was annoying. And then as the days went on, I was like, you know what, I'm really sad. And I'm kind of mad about how this happened. And his tweets weren't really that bad. Actually, I'm going to kind of miss his tweets. I kind of am glad that he was fighting for on the culture worse. And so it's kind of ended like that. At first, I was like, oh, you know, it's fine. And I'm like, no, I really do want to fight back. And it's going to be hard not to have a fighter in the White House. Yeah, that's really. funny because, you know, I said to you before that I obviously voted for Trump, but for the first

month or two when I started, I didn't, I had never said I was voting for Trump until July 31st was the first time on, on Kyle Kishuves' podcast that I hinted it because he asked me directly and I, and I was going to be honest. And then I went off the grid for August as, you know, I disappear for a month and I have no social media, no other thing. And then when I came back, I was being more forthright about it. And then obviously in the last few weeks, I went all in. I was like, this is what I believe, and I'm fighting the same monster that he's fighting and he's an imperfect character. But one of the things that I stopped doing in, say, the last two weeks before the election was making the excuses as to why I was doing it.

Because we can all say the stuff about Twitter and the rest of it, but it's what you just said. It's like in a weird way, he did the thing that no one thought could happen. He beat the entire system. He did it once. He might do it again. And it's like, he's not perfect. So it's not that you can't criticize him.

You know what I mean? And when I see him in little fights with with actors on Twitter, it's like, dude, you got to let that stuff. Just let it go. Yeah. You got to. But at the same time, it's hard to criticize the guy who did everything that no one said could happen. Yeah. And I think so I went in when I vote when I pressed that touchscreen and it was for Donald J. Trump and Michael R. Pence, like I was happy to do it. It was the most validating or fulfilling that it's ever felt for me to. to vote for a president. Yeah. And, you know, whether that ultimately works or not or whether I'm put on a list, like I'm on the list already, right? I'm on AOC's list. So what am I going to do? I know.

We're all kind of joking about that, but it is serious. It's like, okay, we're on the list. Hopefully we're like in the same camp together. Well, that's the thing. It's like, I like, I like all the people on the list. So it's like, if I'm going to be on a list, like, we'll be at a camp together. You know, even if it'll be happier. We would still be happier.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Beyond the outcome of the election. whether or not it changes. Do you have encouragement for people who just think, okay, America's going to hell in a handbasket. You've got one side who's talking about protecting democratic norms while tearing them down and who are putting us on lists and it looks like we're going into leftist totalitarianism. Whether or not Trump wins, you've got corporate America, you've got

big tech that seem to be so against conservatism morally and ideologically. Do you see the potential for the tide turning, for people not putting up with that totalitarianism? And how do we push back against it when there's so much on the line for some people? So it's a great question because I don't think that people like us could do what we do if we did not think things could get better. How could you talk every day for a living and tell people what you think and pay attention to the news if you were sort of, this is what they call blackpilled, if you just in effect thought that everything was just going to get worse no matter what. Like you could, you know, red pill, you could see the truth. I didn't know that phrase. That's funny. Oh yeah. So well, red pill is sort of like

you can see through the madness of course and blue pilled is you just accept it. And then black pilled Oh, it's sort of like the depressing version of red pill that's like you saw it, but then you also realize that we're just in this like endless death spiral now. We look down on those colors, by the way. What's that right? Looked out. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. In that regard, yeah.

So I would say I'm a world weary optimist. I couldn't do this if I didn't think we could change things. I know we can change things. I meet people all the time who say to me some sort of Dave, you were my gateway to this stuff. And so I know that personally you can do things. Yeah. I was also on tour with Jordan Peterson for a year, and I saw this mild-mannered psychologist literally saved the lives of thousands of people and get them off drugs and repair families

and all of these things. So A, I think at the personal level, you can absolutely. You've seen people change. I've seen people change their minds, too. I get those messages all the time, as I'm sure you do. Yeah. I hated you. I hated what you said.

I was ardently pro-choice. My friend made me keep listening to you. And now I've started to listen to, you know, Dave Rubin, whoever. and I've changed my mind. So I always tell people that to encourage them. People change. People change. And by the way, the people that'll be like, oh, well, you flip-blop.

You flip-plop. Well, it's like, okay, should I believe all the stuff I believe when I was 15? Would that be the way to do this? Should I believe all? I'm 44. Should I believe all the stuff I believe when I was 30? Yeah. And that I should have just figured it out at 30.

And, you know, and boom, that's it. You're done. And if you think anything else differently, you're a flip-flopper or you're a sellout or a grifter or, you know, some other nonsensical thing. I think the way we get out of this. I do see one societal way we get out of this, which is sort of why I at this point really want Trump to beat this thing, is that if he wins,

meaning it's actually proven that there was fraud, and at that point, then it's like, it's like, whoa, all of the nonsense, the media will have gone so all in on there was no fraud, but then we'll have the evidence of the fraud, that they are so deep in this. And then I think a lot of things will start getting uncovered

that the way they use COVID statistics to keep us in lockdowns. And I think a second term of Trump could cause the crack that really needs to happen. In other words, Trump's first term was sort of like an initial break through the ice or something. But I think a second term could actually break those things. And then you know what could happen? We would get critical race theory officially out of all the federal institutions. We would get Title IX gone altogether. Biden just announced.

I saw it literally a minute before we sat down. he's going to bring Title IX back. Of course. So we're going to literally bring back having no due process, which is what Title IX was about at the college level. That's for a whole other joke. Yeah. Which disproportionately affects guys, by the way.

But in the world of intersectionality, you know, men are more privileged. So it's okay. Right, right, right. That guy, the accusation is enough just to destroy his life and kick him out of school and everything else. But in effect, a second Trump term would be the destruction, the abject destruction of all of this thing. Now, would it be perfect? No, because we still have big tech issues. And it's like we could all be

silenced tomorrow and there's all sorts of stuff. And it's like here we are at the Blaze Studios, which has built an incredible digital world. But there are still pipes that are owned by other people. Like there's a million fights on the forefront. That's actually what I'm going to be writing about in my next book. Like there are still fights to come. But the way, the way out, I don't see how we get out in the short term without a Trump win. A Biden win. A Biden win is basically the old world trying to hold on one more time. But it lost already. You know what I mean?

Too many of us are awake. Trump got 10 million more votes at least than he did last time. So this was not a repudiation of Trump. You know what I mean? Right. So enough people have woke up. We have huge fights to fight. Again, my whole life doesn't revolve around politics.

So I think we'll be okay either way. And I think that's the real answer, that any of your audience that, you know, it's like you want to fight for the things you believe in. so that society is congruent with what you believe. But like at the same time, it's probably more important that you care about your family and your friends and all of those things. And you fight back where you can. Right now, there's nothing a voter can necessarily do.

I mean, you might be able to call you're a congressperson or to make sure that, you know, that they are also pushing for investigations and litigation and all of that. But you've done your due diligence in voting. and all you can do is kind of hope and pray when it comes to what's happening federally. But in your own life, there are fights that you can do. And it's not necessarily political. Fighting for your family. Fighting for curriculum that's not based on the 1619 project in critical race theory,

but is based on historical truth. Fighting for your children when it comes to things like, and I don't know if we agree on this or not, but the reaches of the Equality Act and sharing, and sharing spaces with girls and boys. There are fights that you can fight. Absolutely. That affect your family directly.

That doesn't necessarily have to do with Donald Trump and what's happening in Washington, D.C., but it's happening in your everyday life. There's a book that Roger Rare wrote. It's called Live Not by Lies. Resisting pre-totalitarian lies that always come before communism. And that's what you can do in your own life. You can refuse to live by lies, the redefinition of words,

the redefinition of things like justice and right and wrong. That's what you can do to fight back. And as long as you are doing that, then you are doing everything that you can do. And like you said, refuse to make politics every part of your life. Love your neighbors. Love your friends who disagree with you. Love your family. Train your kids up in what is right. That's really the most powerful thing that you can do. Raise a generation of critical thinkers. So there is definitely hope. Whether or not the outcome of the election changes for the reasons that you listed, I certainly hope that it does, but we'll see. I suspect that we're going to be okay either way.

Yes. Because either we will. Either we'll be living in a free capitalist representative society or will be in the same gulag, as we said, which will be great. Oh, the left hates that we're joking about that. I've seen a lot of people say that online. Why do they have this fantasy? It's all us who has a fantasy by the way.

You guys do. You talk about re-education, whether you realize it or not. Okay. Where can everyone find you follow? you all that good stuff. My branding guy is good. It's RubenReport.com and YouTube.com slash Ruben Report. And you're on Twitter. Yeah, I'm on Twitter. Nobody's perfect. You know. Yeah, I know. I know. Instagram Ruben Report and all that good stuff. Yes. Yes. And you're on Fox News all the time too. If people are watching that, you really are everywhere. You're a very, very busy person.

I get up at 4 a.m. Pacific time to do those morning hits. I'm literally in my underwear sometimes. Yeah. This is a little insider television stuff. I'm in my underwear. I often have in showered. I can just get my hair to be look okay enough for television. And then I go right back to sleep. So I literally wake up. They're like, what do you think about this? I'm like, blah-da-da-da-da. And you're like, I've been up for hours. I feel good. Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to me. I know that everyone's going to love this conversation. And let's hope for the best.