Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 380 | Pastor James Coates Imprisoned: Persecution or Ploy? | Guest: Erin Coates

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

Today we're discussing the idea of religious persecution regarding Pastor James Coates of GraceLife Church in Alberta, Canada. Pastor Coates is in jail right now for holding his church services at full capacity instead of the 15% capacity mandated by the government. A point of contention among Christian circles has been whether this qualifies as religious persecution or not. To give further details and commentary on the situation, Erin Coates, the pastor's wife, joins us. We address the theology of the situation and offer some encouragement for the future. --- Today's Sponsors: Annie's Kit Clubs: No matter your crafting experience, you can make a picture-perfect project you'll be proud to display. Save 50% on your first kit today! Go to AnniesKitClubs.com/Allie. Gabi Insurance: You're probably overpaying on car & home insurance. See how much Gabi can save you! It's totally free to check & there's no obligation. Go to Gabi.com/Relatable. --- Past Episodes Mentioned: Ep 372: Canadian Pastor Jailed & Lessons From Limbaugh --- Show Links: GraceLife Church: Sermons Erin mentioned (Dec 20/20 & Feb 14/21) https://gracelife.ca/sermons/ Write a note to James & Erin: GraceLifeChurch Attn: Erin Coates 51529A Range Rd 262 Spruge Grove, AB T7Y 1B3 CANADA --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Today I am talking to Erin Coates, the wife of Alberta Pastor James Coates. He is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Canada. He is currently in jail in a form of solitary confinement because he refused to heed government edicts in restricting the capacity of his church to 15%. He simply believes that according to scripture, his responsibility is to Christ and not to the government, and that part of that responsibility is making sure that as many people as possible can hear the gospel and to congregate with believers in person. And so in order to properly and biblically shepherd his flock, he could not, in good conscience, heed those government restrictions. And for that, he is in jail. And so we are going to talk to his wife, Erin Coates.

She is going to fill in some of the details on this situation. She's going to tell us how we can support them and how we can pray for them and give us some updates and in what's going on. You are going to be extremely encouraged by her faith, by her faithfulness, the faithfulness of her husband, James. You're going to be uplifted by her testimony. Now, if you're someone, a Christian who maybe has heard about the situation and you have kind of looked the other direction and said, you know what, this isn't real persecution. This is just someone trying to to be a martyr or trying to get media attention or trying to, you know, fan the flames of conservative outrage about government lockdowns, or you have clamored to try to clarify why he is not

actually being persecuted for his faith, but he is actually just, you know, serving the just punishment for violating the government's orders on COVID restrictions. I encourage you to listen to this and to listen to her interview as openly and as graciously as you possibly can. Something that's amazing to me is that in this time of listening and learning that we are constantly told that we have to do. We have to heed people's lived experiences and almost elevate them to absolute truth. When it comes to a brother in Christ, when it comes to a pastor in Canada who is being jailed because he wanted to operate his church at full capacity.

So he could be a responsible steward of the gospel with which God has entrusted him and make sure as many people as possible heard that gospel within the walls of his church that so many professing Christians are slow to listen and are quick to speak, are quick to delegitimized, to belittle, to invalidate. So quick to anger, quick to defensiveness. I actually saw a Christian on social media say that she was embarrassed by this situation. This is a person that is a Christian. I'm not questioning that person's salvation.

I am questioning that person's discernment and that questions or that person's judgment in this particular situation. As I will talk about with Aaron, we need to have a better understanding of what persecution actually looks like, especially in our part of the world, where we are so used to enjoy so many freedoms, so much flexibility in what we can say, what we can believe, what we can preach, where we can speak, and all of these things, that might be shifting. And so we need to understand what hardship, what persecution actually looks like. And we have to look to the example of someone like James Coates as a way to stand firm in his responsibility that the Lord has given him,

not as someone who is trying to just be a martyr for his own cause. I don't think that's the graciousness with which we should regard fellow or the lack of graciousness that we need to use in regarding a fellow Christian. I think that we need to be much quicker to give the benefit of the doubt. And you are going to be encouraged by Aaron's faith. and you're going to be encouraged by the faith of Pastor James Coates as well. After it, I'm going to talk about a few more things. This is not going to be an episode about the news or an episode about politics,

but we're just going to give some encouragement and remind us of that, which is true. And I know a lot of you guys are kind of hungry for this right now because there's so much insanity and so much stupidity and craziness and chaos going on in the world. A lot of you want to take a break from politics, and I can totally sympathize with that because me too. But this particular conversation is so important. It's so important for believers to listen to and to be thinking about and praying about as well. Erin, thank you so much for joining me for taking the time to talk to us. Can you first just give us an update of what is going on with your husband, pastor coats, and maybe fill in some

details that people might not know about this story? Wow, that's a big question. So right now, James is in a maximum medium security prison for violating our health orders and holding church gatherings without restrictions. We've done that really wisely. And he is now, he's still in quarantine. So he's been in quarantine two weeks in the prison by himself. He's allowed out of his cell for two. 15 minute blocks a day. And he called me on those blocks if he can, if he's not showering. But he, he's in there, obviously because the restrictions upon the gathering were something that violated his conscience, what he believes God has called him to do as a steward of Christ's church and his sheep. And so they put him in there. They really didn't want to put him in there, but they put him under arrest and then put restrictions on him to have to sign to leave the jail that he wouldn't have the gathering the way he had been doing it and that

if he agreed to these restrictions that he could be out of jail. And by his conscience, he just couldn't agree to them. He would be abrogating his duties as a shepherd of Christ's sheep. And so he is still in there. And we have today, which is Thursday, March the 4th, he has an appeal hearing today, a bail hearing, and I put an appeal through for his conditions to be dropped before his trial, which is May 3rd to the 5th, which would allow him to essentially resume his pastoral duties until the trial without any restrictions on them. Okay. So that's where we're at now. Yes. So the kind of pushback that I've seen on social media, both from Canadians and Americans, people who identify as Christians, they're saying, you know, this is not persecution. He's not

in jail because he preached the gospel. He's not in jail for, you know, holding a church service. He's in jail because he violated COVID restrictions. One of the COVID restrictions was that I think you can only operate at 15% capacity at one time. Everyone has to socially distance and wear masks. Which of those restrictions, did Pastor Coats say, okay, we're not going to do that? Or was it kind of something where he was like, you know what, we're going to give people the choice no matter what? Yeah. His job as a shepherd of the sheep is to open the doors and allow people to worship according to their conscience, according to the Word of God. And we've done that really wisely. We've put precautions in place, obviously, if you're not feeling well, if you have COVID symptoms, we've asked

our church to live stream. We have a place in the church that has plexiglass around it where you can wear a mask and you can socially distance if you want to come to church that you feel like it's your conscience that you do that. But James and our elders just felt like it was not their responsibility to mandate these restrictions, but allow people to worship freely according to their conscience. Their job is to shepherd the flock among them. And so they left it to the people to make that decision. I feel like there was another question there. Oh, persecution, you know, I'm just going to say what my husband said. I don't really, I'll leave it up to the Lord, whether it's persecution or not. I think that people's definition of persecution probably needs to

be broadened a little bit. Second Timothy says that all those who desire to live godly and righteousness in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. And I do want to make it clear that he's not in jail because he didn't obey the restrictions. He's in jail because he obeyed the Lord Jesus Christ and his headship over the church and did not restrict the gathering to anybody. So when it comes to persecution, you know, like we do have our big box stores open. And there are thousands of people going through our Costco and Walmart every day. And there's no restrictions on them.

And we have restaurants are allowed to be open. And so people, when they say, well, you know, restaurants have these. restrictions and these places have those restrictions. It's really sad because, you know, Satan doesn't really care about whether a restaurant is open or not. He does care about destroying the local church and he does care about destroying the lives of the people that comprise the local church. Right. So, you know, when you look at what the local church is, she is an expression of the blood body of Christ. And when she gathers, she's testifying to the world of the greatness and glory of God and his worth to be worshipped.

And when we come together to be a gathering, to testify to the world of that, restaurants aren't doing that. The church is doing that. And so the enemy really seeks to destroy that. So I would just say it's probably just a lack of familiarity of church history and how things have worked and how the enemy works to destroy the church. But I'll leave that in the Lord's hands. I don't have to waive the persecution flag. He can deal with all of that.

Right. I wonder if it surprised you, the reaction that you have probably seen from some professing Christians who are so quick to shut down any talk of persecution. I really like what you said, that you're leaving that to the Lord. That's not your goal in speaking out. You're just talking about what happened and you're talking about the obedience of your of your husband, but there have been a lot of Christians on social media that I have seen so eagerly and earnestly try to bury any kind of conversation about persecution or unfairness or how Satan might be using these restrictions and working in this way to try to keep people out of the doors of the church. Is that surprising to you to see that kind of negative response from people who

claim to be in the same body of Christ? Yes, then no. I mean, largely we have a huge issue just in regards to ecclesiology. There isn't, like, biblical men that are truly preaching the Word of God that are qualified to do that according to 1st Timothy 3 are not men that are growing on trees nowadays. And so I remember going to the G3 conference a couple years ago and meeting so many people that were at this conference that this is the only fellowship and solid teaching that they're getting. And they kind of conference hop because they can't just go to a church locally and have

sound teaching. So for me, this is just really the fruit of people not being under sound teaching. and, you know, it's sad to see that people are being so slow to hear, quick to speak, quick to anger, quick to judgment, and maybe not thinking, oh, maybe I don't have all of the information. So, but again, you know, you have people with varying degrees of sanctification. You have new believers, younger believers in the faith. And so I just have to be, patient with them because if they're truly saved by Christ, he's going to sanctify them. And, you know, I did things in my life when I was young and even things now that I regret that the Lord has been so patient with me to deal with my heart. And so it doesn't surprise me. There's a

spiritual war. So yes and no. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. There have been things and scenarios that all of us have misjudged or we have jumped to certain conclusions that just aren't based on reality, whether that assumption has come from pride or it's come from ignorance or both. All of us have done that. And so I think that you're setting a good example and being gracious and patient and not, you know, getting into these kind of quibbles or battles online because I imagine, I think my propensity would be to, you know, be on the defense and argue with these people that are, saying, oh, that guy deserves to be in prison. He's just being a martyr. That would really hurt

me personally as a wife that knows my husband better and knows the situation better. But you seem to be setting a very good in Christ-like example and taking a step back and saying, look, here's my role. Here's what I'm here to do. I'm not here to argue or to convince anyone. Is that a correct assessment? Yeah. And you know, Ali, I would say it's because I know my husband and his heart, that those things don't bother me because that's just not him. And I take really seriously the passage in James 4 where we're being careful to judge and being merciless in chapter 2, or it talks about being merciless, God will be merciless to those who have no mercy.

And so it's not my job to convince people. It's just my job to speak the truth. And really, even in all of this, is not to, um, defend myself or defend James, I will let the Lord deal with that. We're all going to stand before him on the day of judgment. It's just my job to make sure I'm taking every opportunity to herald Jesus Christ and him crucified as the only way of salvation. And you just have a lot of people in darkness who don't understand because they don't know Christ, right? So I don't know if I'm dealing with believers or unbelievers. So I just have one mission and my one testimony is the death and resurrection

of Christ and calling people to repentance and to believe in him. And when you talk to your husband, how does he say he's doing? I mean, he's basically in solitary confinement because of, quote, COVID restrictions. I imagine that that is trying. Yeah, that's really difficult for a man who's challenging his brain, especially a theological. and he's so used to being active in service to our church and just constantly learning the word of God and theology. So this has been challenging for him. And yeah, to say the least, it's been a little bit challenging, but he's just so faithful. He's trusting the Lord, even with his appeal today. He understands that God's will will be done and that nothing can

thwart that. So wherever God needs to use him most greatly, that's where he's going to put him. And he desperately misses me and our children and grace life. So it's not that it's not hard. He's definitely had some dark moments. You have the enemy just seeking to devour you in a situation like that. But he just says he's he's been strengthened and encouraged by reading the word, obviously, and praying. and the letters that he is receiving, that just brings so much joy to my heart to know that. People we don't even know are writing to encourage him and taking seriously remembering those who are in prison. So that's just so sweet to me. Yes, absolutely.

And how are you doing? I mean, obviously, I know that you take solace in scripture and in the gospel, and it sounds like you're resolute in that. but I imagine they're very dark and hard moments for you. There's no doubt in my mind that Satan is also trying to hinder you as much as possible because you're using this as an opportunity to share the gospel, which is exactly what he doesn't want to happen. And so what is your mindset and just kind of your disposition like?

I truly am trusting the Lord. I know him, but I want to know him more. And I know that whatever he brings into my life has been ordained before the foundation of the world so that I would know him, love him, obey him, and therefore glorify him. Not to say that it's not hard. I've had moments where I've woken up in the middle of the night crying and can't breathe. And the first couple of days, just when the firestorm was blazing, those were really difficult days for me. but we, my elders have done a phenomenal job of caring for me and one particular gentleman in our church that's just like a father figure to me is making sure that they're checking on us, making sure we're okay. Our church has just overwhelmed us with kindness and care.

That's been a little bit difficult for me. You know, we've been at Grace Life for almost 11 years and are serving her. So now to be on the flip side of that where we're on the receiving end has been a little bit overwhelming. But it's just they love the Lord. And I see the shepherding hand of God in all of it. But it's not that it's not hard. It is hard. It's supposed to be hard because it's the hard and difficult things that we see our weakness and the power of God on display in our life.

So I just truly sense, I get so many messages online of people faithfully praying for us. And I just sense the Lord's strengthening me through those prayers. So I am so thankful for that. But this is something that both James and I need in our life, we're not perfected. We have not reached the goal line yet. And we need to be sanctified and submit. with a gentle spirit to whatever the Lord brings into our life. But that's not that to say it's not hard. It is hard. Yeah. And your children, I don't know how old they are, but how are they kind of

comprehending and dealing with this? I have an 18 year old and an 11 year old. Our oldest has really probably taken it the hardest. I think he has a bigger picture of what's happening to his dad. and so it's been emotional for him, but he also recognizes that the Lord is at work. There's a bigger picture to this and that he also has things that he has to learn. My youngest has had some moments. He definitely misses his dad. He encountered a conversation yesterday just with a child that was, he just came in crying and very hurtful towards him that was kind of spewing the rhetoric.

And so that was really hurtful for him. But every opportunity is an opportunity for me to show our children, you know what, love, when you don't want to treat other people this way. So when somebody else is carrying a burden or is hurt, it's not your responsibility to stand back and evaluate whether it's a burden worthy of carrying. But that we have to put on a heart of compassion and that we have to weep with those who weep and mourn with those who mourn. whether or not they seemingly deserve it or not.

So everything is a teaching opportunity for us. We have to learn how to love and how to love Christ more. Definitely. And can you tell people how they can support you, what they can do? Are there calls they can make? I know they can write a letter to James, but what else can they do? I know there's a lot of people out there who just want to do something to help you guys. Yeah, I think especially if people are Canadian, be writing your local representatives, be writing your premieres and maybe even writing and calling our premier, Jason Kenney, and just how this situation is just breaking people and is not necessary according to the science.

but my biggest thing is, I think start sharing with your pastors who have opted to close the church, just the damage that the lockdowns are doing to you. And I receive so many messages from people that are really struggling to thrive in Christ. And when you have them isolated, they are just prime target for the enemy to pounce on. And so my biggest thing, especially if you're in Canada, is open your churches to the of God. And if you're not quite there yet, take an honest look at at scripture, at church history. James has two sermons. The first one is the December 20th sermon. It's called a time to stand. And then he has one that he preached on February 14th on the duty of government, the role of

government. And so both of those are on the gracelife.ca.com YouTube page and also on our website. And yeah, just pray for us is the biggest thing. You know, we are on display as a church and our earnest desire is to be faithful. And I think that grace life really needs to be protected right now. There are going to be people who hop on to our cause and make it something that it's not. This is about Jesus Christ's lordship over his church and whether the government can mandate how we are to worship him as individually as individual and corporately, that this isn't really a freedom fight for us. So I recognize that's the fruit of what we're doing. So just really pray for the protection of grace life. Pray for James's protection. And pray for us that

we would learn everything that the Lord would want us to learn out of this. But I always just keep saying, just keep obeying the Lord. Just keep loving him. Faithfully serve your church. know what your your rights are. I think as a Canadian, this has really shown me I've been negligent in just knowing politically what is going on. What are my rights as a Canadian? I don't ever remember being taught this stuff in school. So just know that. No church history have a robust and sound ecclesiology. What is the doctrine of the church, the teaching of the church? and maybe just be gracious to pastors. So as you talk about comments that people make a large amount of the comments that are negative that come in are not from pastors who have to stand before the Lord and give an account on judgment day for the souls that have been entrusted to them, especially for grace life.

So just be gracious. this is a brother in Christ that you are unified with and will stand before the throne for all of eternity if you're truly in Christ worshipping our Lord and Savior. So just pray for that end that God would be glorified and that the gospel would keep going out. We have so many opportunities right now to share Christ. And we want to do that boldly and we want to do that lovingly and we want to do that faithfully. Yes, absolutely.

Well, thank you so much. Thank you for being faithful. I praise God for the testimony that he is creating and that is going out because of this hardship and whether or not someone wants to categorize this as technical persecution, which I agree with you. I think we need to expand our understanding of what that can look like, especially here in the West. The fact of the matter is is that this is an opportunity that the Lord is going to use because this is how he works. to spread the gospel and to make himself known. And it doesn't matter if it sounds like or seems like the vast majority of people are clamoring to discredit him or to discredit the situation and pretend like it just doesn't exist or that he's just being a martyr. Even if it's one person who sees the faithfulness of James, sees the faithfulness of the church, sees your faithfulness, and that heart of stone is made by the Holy Spirit into a heart of flesh, that could be the entire purpose in this whole thing. What I've learned is that when God is

doing one thing, he's doing a million things. And so we can trust in that. We can rejoice in that. I think the example that you're setting of trusting in that and hoping in the gospel is a beautiful one. And I do pray that this brings lots and lots of people to the Lord. So thank you so much. I will be praying. I know the people listening and watching will absolutely be praying. And thank you for taking the time to come on. Thank you so much, Ali. All right. I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation.

I'm not going to lie. I almost lost it. Like you guys couldn't see if you're watching it on YouTube because she was full screen. But I was blinking back tears when she was talking about waking up in the middle of the night and just crying for her husband. I just want us to think for one second what that would be like, knowing that the person that you love so much that you've spent. more of your life with than anyone else is in solitary confinement because they obeyed Christ in opening up their church completely, in obedience to what scripture calls pastors to do. I want you to think about what that must feel like in those moments of just gut-wrenching

pain and heartache. And I praise the Lord that he meets her in those moments, that he is comforting her. But we need to take a good, hard look at our theology and at our worldview. and we need to take a good, hard look at our faith, and we need to ask ourselves if we would have the same resolve in that situation. I saw this, I don't even remember who wrote it because I saw it on Instagram, and I thought it was interesting, that very many Christians are quick to kind of justify someone like Ravi Zacharias or when any leader makes a mistake that amounts to a great moral failure or they're accused of a moral failure. Christians are so quick to say, well, you know, he was just a fallen man and he was just sinful. We're all sinners. We have to give them grace, which of course is true. But when it comes to someone like Pastor James Coates, some of those same Christians are saying,

oh, no, no, no, no, he's just someone who just wants attention. No, we need to kind of cast him off to decide and condemn him as someone who is not really genuine. This is not about the gospel. This is not about persecution. It's just about becoming some kind of martyred celebrity. And so we give the benefit of the doubt to these teachers who have committed egregious moral failures, but we don't give the benefit of the doubt to teachers who are being put in jail for their obedience to Christ.

And that is what is going on with James Coates. It is for his obedience in wanting to preach to as many people as possible in person that he is in prison. And for some reason, there are Christians who are not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to him. they're not willing to empathize. And the person who made this observation, which I thought was very insightful, said it's probably because most of us see ourselves more in the pastor who fell from grace or in the pastor who

had this great moral failure than we do in someone like James Coates. And that's probably true. And I think we all need to be honest with ourselves and say, okay, like would we in that situation, like would we, if we were sent to jail? for preaching the gospel. And I understand that's not quite exactly what he is in jail for. But if we were put in jail for preaching the gospel, as, for example, Andrew Brunson was when he was in Turkey, if we were faced with that kind of persecution, would we stand firm? Like, would our commitment to be to the gospel? I think we need to make a really honest assessment of that. Now, our perseverance and our

faithfulness and our steadfastness is not based on our own personal resolve. It's not based on our own merit. It's not based on our own good works or our resume or anything like that. It is entirely from the grace and the power and the faithfulness and the steadfastness of God. But I think that we can look at our actions today as a pretty good indicator of how we would react if serious persecution came. So if we are unwilling to stand up for what God says is good and right and true when it comes to avoiding awkwardness or when it comes to not being inconvenienced or maybe being called a bigot online or being canceled by people on social media, I don't think that we can kid ourselves into thinking that when real authorities come, that we are going to stand firm in

our faith. I think we just need to be pretty honest in our self-assessment there. I don't think that if we find ourselves acquiescing to culture when it comes to Genesis 1 issues, like the definition of male and female or what God says marriage looks like, or if we are exchanging God's basic definitions of what justice is, for worldly definitions of justice, I'm not so sure we can kid ourselves and to think that we're going to stand firm when our preaching of the gospel, when our representation of the gospel is really pushed against in a very tangible way. Because you understand that the gospel is far more offensive than these cultural issues. The gospel itself is far more offensive to a non-believing world than you saying that God made them male and female. So if we are not able to even say what should be biblically uncontroversial, what people see as political and cultural

statements, which really aren't, like the definition of marriage and sexuality and gender and justice and all of that, if you're unwilling to stand for those things, I don't think that we can get ourselves into thinking that we are going to defend the most offensive part of the entire gospel, or of the entire Bible, which is the gospel. there is nothing more offensive to the non-believing world that says you are then that which says you are dead in your sin you're dead in your sin apart from Christ and you cannot save yourself and there's nothing that you can do that is ever going to be good enough you're never going to be able to earn your merit or earn your righteousness or earn any kind of acceptance before God you can't

do it you are dead in your sin apart from Christ and only he by grace through faith can save you, that is offensive. And if you think that you can compromise on all of the other things that the culture finds offensive and that you'll stand for that, I think that you're kidding yourself. And I think we're all kidding ourselves. I'm including myself in that. And so rather than be so quick to delegitimize what's going on with James Coates, maybe we need to look to him and see that is the kind of, that's the kind of faith that we actually need to be emulating. And what's also interesting that I see in all of this hypocrisy is that in a time that we're talking about criminal justice, that we are much quicker to give the benefit of the doubt to people who actually have committed

egregious crimes who are in prison. We're much quicker to defer to to give them deference or to give them the benefit of the doubt than we are to a pastor who is in solitary confinement in Canada for preaching the gospel in his church. And so that's also very strange to me that the same people who say that they care for criminal justice reform and social justice, that we need kind of what they would call restorative justice rather than punitive justice, that even people who committed real detrimental crimes that actually harmed people. It harmed people's lives, and in some cases took people's lives, that those people need to be taken out of incarceration in the name of social and criminal justice. Those same people.

Some of them are turning a blind eye to what's happening with James Coates in Alberta. That doesn't make any sense to me. That doesn't make any sense to me. And that is why I think it's so wonderful. And so refreshing for Christians to remember that we have God's standard of justice. As we have talked about so many times on this podcast, replete with references and biblical support, that God's justice is direct, it is proportional, it is truthful, it is impartial. The world's definition of social justice, collectivist justice that's based on all of these different

identifiers like socioeconomic status or race or levels of oppression or lived experience or whatever it is, it's convoluted. It's hypocritical. It's duplicitous. We don't have to be on that constant hamster wheel of chasing after wokeness and never actually being able to achieve it. We have God's standard. We have God's standard in His Word. and we don't have to worry. We don't have to worry about trying to fit into worldly definitions of what justice looks like, of what right and wrong looks like, of what obedience looks like. And I think that's what James Coates is actually representing for us.

And we should be praising God for that and absolutely praying for him. I just kind of want to end with this. I feel your weariness. A lot of you guys have messaged me saying that you just feel, tired. Like you feel tired of, um, of politics. Like you feel tired of what's going on in the news. Every day, something new is canceled. Every day, it feels like a part of our culture is crumbling. Every day there is something that we thought was sacred or that we thought was irrefutable that is now being refuted or now, uh, being violated in some way. I don't think five years ago.

we could have guessed or understood what would be happening with this gender madness. I don't think five years ago, we could have guessed a lot of the things that are going on politically and culturally. And a lot of you are just tired. And a lot of you have kind of unplugged from the news. And I think that's perfectly understandable. And I don't fault you at all for that. There are times when I'm lying in bed at night that I don't want to deal with this stuff. I don't want to deal with this stuff either. I don't want to talk about politics anymore. like I don't want to talk about these cultural issues. I just kind of want to pretend like it's not happening.

And I just want to focus on my tiny piece of the world that God has given me. And I think that there is something good and true about that. I think that it is good to remember that we're not omniscient, that we're not omnipotent. We don't know everything. We're not all powerful. We're not omnipresent. So we're not everywhere. And sometimes the constant inundation of media stories,

makes us think that we have to be all of those things or that we are all of those things. It puts us a godlike burden on our shoulders that we were never meant to carry. And so I do think it's important for us to bring our focus closer to home to what is right in front of us to being a faithful spouse, being a faithful parent, being a faithful neighbor, church member, citizen of our community, absolutely. But at the same time, I hear something like what Aaron said, that she didn't know. know her rights. Like she didn't know the politics of all of this. Like she didn't know, uh, she didn't know the legality of it. Like she didn't understand kind of the political system

before this. And now she is trying to learn. And as we see from this conversation, um, our Christian life and politics are inextricably intertwined. They just are. That doesn't mean that in order to be a Christian, you have to ascribe. to every single policy proposal or every single policy of the platform of one party. But it does mean that our faith is going to affect how we understand policies and how we understand culture. And I see such a such starvation in the church for wisdom and for biblical understand of what's going on in the world.

Sometimes I get pushback. Why are you even talking about what's going on with The Bachelor? Why are you even talking about what's going on with the Kardashians? Or why do you even care about critical race there? Why do you care about Dr. Seuss? Why do you care about all of these things? You're just, you're being divisive. As if I am not critiquing the actual things that are dividing us.

That's what I'm doing. I am trying to remind us of what the Bible says is, and right and true when it comes to this. And I just see so many Christians in the same way with the whole James Coates situation, the same Christians who are clamoring to discredit him and discredit that situation are always so quick to justify cultural changes that are going in a direction that we as Christians shouldn't agree with or that we should at least be curious about before we hop on the cultural change train. I see so many Christians trying to justify secular, cultural, and social changes by saying that these are actually good, that it's actually

better for us to redefine what justice looks like or redefine what gender looks like or redefine what love, intolerance, and right and wrong looks like. It's actually fine for the government to take over our lives in this way. Actually, the Equality Act is Christ-like. Actually, it's better for us to follow along this kind of insanity that we're seeing from the culture. And I just wonder why. I wonder why so many Christians are so eager to look like the rest of the world when that's the opposite of what we're called to do. And I'm certainly not saying I have it all figured out because I don't.

I'm not saying that all of my opinions are objective truth and that they're always right in line with the Bible and that no one can refute that. That's not true at all. everything I subjectively say is fallible and debatable. That's absolutely true. But I want to be, one of the goals on my podcast is to be as slow as possible and as thoughtful as possible when it comes to cultural changes because we have to weigh them against the Word of God. You're not going to see me clamoring for the discrediting or invalidation of the obedience of a fellow believer who bucks culture. You're just not going to see me doing that. And in that way, I want to be as

understanding and gracious and open as possible. And I hope to see myself in someone like James Coates rather than seeing myself in all of the people who are constantly bending to the pressures of the woke mob in cancel culture and social justice secular activists. And I hope that that's true of most of you as well. All right. That's all I have to say for today. I am praying for you guys. I am praying for this country. I'm praying for the church constantly that we are all united under the banner of truth. I don't want the church to be united under false pretenses. I want the church to be united under the truth of the gospel.

Even if we disagree on some peripheral things, I want us to be united there. Thank you guys so much for all of your encouragement. I do. I hope this encourages you. I know I said I was done, but I have a little bit more. I hope this encourages you that the vast majority of messages, of emails, of comments that I get are positive, are agreeing with what I'm saying. Now, I understand there are millions and millions of people who totally disagree with what I say. There are plenty of people who hate me and hate

my message, but I hope that's encouraging to you that you're not alone. There are thousands, I mean, tens of thousands of people who listen to this podcast. There are thousands of people who message me, who email me every week, who are right in line with what you believe and with what you hold dear. You're not alone. You're not, I don't. You're not. I isolated. And you would also be encouraged by the emails that the messages of the messages that I get saying, hey, I changed my mind on this, that I once thought this and then I changed my mind. That's possible. A lot of you say you don't think it's possible to change culture. You don't think it's possible to change people's minds. I get emails every week from people saying

they changed their mind. There was one particular message that I thought was extremely encouraging and I thought it took a lot of character and honesty for this person. They messaged me after I did the Dear Evangelicals for Biden monologue. And you guys know if you haven't listened to it, it's on my Instagram page. And it's from last week after we talked about the Equality Act, I think last Thursday. Someone said, I started watching your video and I was rolling my eyes. I'm left leaning. I voted for Joe Biden. I was rolling my eyes. And I was saying all kinds of things about you, how you're stupid and all this stuff. But then I kept listening. And I have to say, you made me think. She said, now, I'm still not ashamed of my vote for Joe Biden, but I will say

that it occurred to me that you were actually talking out of a place of kindness and concern, not a place of belittlement, and you made me think about some issues. I get messages like that a lot that I used to hate you. I used to hate your podcast and hate what you had to. to say and then something shifted, something changed, my mind changed, my heart changed about something. I get messages like that all of the time. And if I, if God can use this podcast like that, then God can use anyone and any podcast and any messenger in the exact same way. And I know and trust and believe that he does. So I hope that that encourages you. I get my fair share of hate and my fair share of pushback, typically what happens is that you guys like share one of my stories

or you share something that I post and then your woke friends message me and are like, I'm really troubled that my friend is following you. And then proceeds to try to, you know, debunk something I said, sometimes they're nice, sometimes they're rude. So yes, that certainly, that certainly happens and people who just don't think that Christians, I guess, should be commenting on culture at all. But the vast majority of the messages and the and the reviews and all of that that I get are positive. And I just thank you guys for that. I do not take for granted your encouragement and your prayers and your positivity and your thoughtful critiques and your thoughtful pushback. I don't take those for granted. And so thank you guys.

Thank you guys so much. Please don't stop doing that. Please don't stop leaving the positive reviews on this podcast because they do mean something and they do something as well. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you guys for that and encourage you in that way. We will be back here on Monday.