Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 388 | The Border Crisis & Loving the Foreigner | Guest: Daniel Horowitz

Episode Date: March 18, 2021

Today, we’re discussing the growing border crisis happening under the Biden administration. It’s recently been revealed that thousands more migrants are coming to the U.S. than previously thought. Does the U.S. have an obligation to let them all in? Christians on the Left often quote Exodus to "prove" why America should have open borders or more progressive immigration law. This, however, is a misreading of the verse. To talk more about the border crisis, Daniel Horowitz joins the show. Daniel, host of the Conservative Review podcast, has been following the border issue for years and provides historical insight and commentary on how COVID-19 is affecting the situation. --- Today's Sponsors: Annie's Kit Clubs is celebrating National Crafting Month with a special 50% off offer for a creative, fun, and hands-on way to help take our mind off life's stress and aggravation. Visit AnniesKitClubs.com/ALLIE & save 50% off your first kit today! ExpressVPN masks your IP address by a secure VPN server & it's easy to use! Visit ExpressVPN.com/ALLIE to get three (3) extra months free! 'ABC - Life in the Womb' is a fun & educational alphabet book for kids to learn how babies grow & develop in their mother's womb. To find out more about the book visit LittleLifeStages.com! --- Show Links: Charisma News: "Wayne Grudem: Why Building a Border Wall is a Morally Good Action" https://bit.ly/3lvABhe The Daily Wire: "Biden's Border Crisis Explodes, Number of Unaccompanied Children in Custody 300% Higher Than Previously Known" https://bit.ly/312f1qR The Daily Wire: "DHS: U.S. On Pace For Highest Number Of Illegal Border Crossings In 20 Years, Border Situation ‘Difficult’" https://bit.ly/38VXk0z Washington Examiner: "Families Sending Children Alone Across the Border in Response to Biden Policies" https://washex.am/30Tm1Gv --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week. So today we are going to talk about what is going on at the border and what is going on in Texas. There have been illegal immigrants who have been transported to different parts of Texas. News reports say that there will also be illegal immigrants that are currently being detained at the border that are going to be transferred to different parts of the country. And so we're going to talk about some of what's happening. I'm going to talk to you about the Christian perspective of it. And then I'm going to talk, I'm going to talk to an immigration expert who has been studying this subject for almost two decades now. His name is Daniel Horowitz.

He is an investigator. He is a journalist. And so we're going to talk to him also about the kind of the COVID regulation hypocrisy when it comes to the unmitigated infiltration and acceptance of illegal immigrants, even while there are still Americans who are being heavily regulated as far as their behavior goes. in the hopes of supposedly trying to clamp down on the virus. So we're going to talk a little bit about that hypocrisy, what dangers we think that this poses. And then also we're going to talk about some legislative solutions and then what you can do to hold your state legislators accountable when it comes to this problem because it is a really big problem.

Now, there are a few, three stories off the top that I want to let you know that I'm thinking about that I am going to talk about at some point, but we just didn't have time to get to this week. The one story that I know you guys are curious to hear my analysis on is the story of the 20-something man who killed eight people in Atlanta, six of them were Asians, two of them were white, I think seven of them were women, one of them was a man. And because we are kind of at what seems like a precipice or, I should say, a pinnacle, rather, of anti-Asian crimes that are at least being reported. This is turning into a conversation about white supremacy, a conversation about systemic

anti-Asian racism. And so I want to talk about that. But I'm going to wait a few days. There's a lot of information that we need to hear. And, I mean, social media on this, it is so incredibly. toxic, you guys. It's so toxic. And I just want to say it's very difficult for me because I want us and I wish we could stay in this place of just saying, look, like, lives were lost. These people were made in the image of God and they're no longer here. They were senselessly murdered and now

their families and their friends are mourning them. And this is awful. This is terrible. What would possess a person to do this? Jesus tells us that all sins, sexual immorality, all kinds of debauchery, murder included, starts in the human heart. And so this was a toxicity of the heart and this is terrible. And what can we do, especially as Christians, to cultivate as much love is possible and as much help as possible so these things don't happen? I want us to stay there. And I want to stay there.

The problem is these conversations so quickly turned from, wow, that was awful, which everyone agrees with. And wow, that was terrible. And that person needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They need to spend their life in jail or they even, they deserve the death penalty. Of course, it depends on where you stand on that particular issue. But everyone agrees this is horrible. Everyone agrees this is sinful. But it's so quickly, before the bodies are even cold, turns into a conversation about what we want to be, what we want to say is the cause of this. immediately, immediately, it goes from, wow, this is really sad and awful, which we all agree with, to, well, this is white people for you, or this is the patriarchy, or this is white supremacy,

or this guy just happened to be a member at some point of a Southern Baptist church who happen to have ties to some conservative ministries who have argued logically and biblically against critical race. They're like, well, this is what that means. This is what it means to be a part of SBC, this is what it means when you have churches that are pushing the kind of purity culture that we've seen in conservative evangelical circles. And so you have all of this confirmation bias, all of these preconceived notions that are being just put out there without any thought whatsoever to the logical coherence of their argument before we have even had a second to mourn what happened to mourn the loss of life of image bears. And so I'll just like lay my cards out there.

It is difficult for me because I, if I correct the record on that stuff, which I feel obligated in this role to do, if I say, whoa, whoa, whoa, these narratives are getting out of control in the same way that we've seen over the past year since May, I feel like I need to talk about the data. I need to talk about the numbers. If we're going to say this is a problem of whiteness, like we got to look at the recent crimes against Asians and who has perpetrated them. Like we have to have a conversation about correlation and causation and logical fallacies. If I correct the record on it, immediately I am going to be accused of not having empathy and not having compassion and not caring and being racist and perpetuating racism or whatever

it is. And apparently the only loving thing to do in these situations is to just not say anything to just nod our head and to go along. with whatever accusations people want to make about whole groups of people based on the actions of one person. And I'm just supposed to be okay with that, apparently. I'm not supposed to correct the record because that's unloving and that's unempathetic. And I can't go, I just, I just can't go with that. Okay. I just can't agree with that. I cannot believe that allowing a lie to be perpetuated or allowing assumptions about whole groups of people based on the actions of one person that are not true

assumptions and not true accusations, I can't believe that that's the loving and that's the empathetic thing to do. It's this whole like gaslighting situation where something tragic happens. And immediately the reaction from one side is to say, well, this is what you get with white people or this is what you get with men or this is what you get with Christians or this kind of theology. And then if you push back against that, you're the one that's called divisive. Like you're the one that's called political when it's not me who made a political. in the first place. But it's a bullying tactic to say, nope, this is the prevailing narrative. This is what we're going to say the cause is. This is who we're going to say is to blame it.

If you push back on that, you're the one who is callous. No, no, no. I would love us to stay in a place of our shared humanity. But if you are going to lie, if you're going to push theories that are not based in reality, not based in fact, then I do feel like I have an obligation to push back against that. And I'm just going to have to take whatever heat comes my way. And so that's just my short, that's just my short take on the reaction to the tragedy that happened. Like, I don't like talking about race. I don't like talking about all of this. I don't like pushing back on the narratives. I don't like doing that. I understand that I'm a white girl that is immediately going to be discounted. My opinion on this or my take on this or my analysis on this is just going to be

deemed a product of white privilege. I understand that. And yet, what am I supposed to do? Allow you to believe narratives that are not based in truth that the numbers tell us something different, that the facts tell us something different. We're just supposed to believe in headlines and believe in the mainstream narrative on something and believe in someone's analysis of the cause of something because it's politically correct or popular to do so. I can't be that week. if I wanted to. And so I will be pushing back against it and trying to articulate as much compassion as I possibly can because I have all the compassion in my heart for the people who were affected by this

violence. I have all the compassion in my heart for their families. They were image bearers. They have value. I care about murder. I care about violence. I also care about the truth. And I will just let you know it's hard.

It is hard to balance both of those things, knowing that if you try to tell the truth or push back in any way that you are going to be called a bigot, it's hard to balance it. I try my best to do it. It's never going to be perfect. I'm a fallible, finite human being. I ask for the Holy Spirit's help in all of this, but I feel a responsibility to you guys to push back on the ridiculous things that you see on social media from the progressive mainstream on a daily basis when it comes to these kinds of trash. I do. I feel responsible to you. I think you're worth telling the truth too. I do. And that also goes, by the way, in the conversation that we are going to have today about illegal immigration. Like, how do we balance compassion for people that we know we're made in the image of God with the truth, like with the rule of law, with the importance of a nation's sovereignty? It's difficult to do. I try to do it. I fail at it all of the time. But just know that that is my that's my effort that I that I just don't believe that going along with the most politically correct or the most popular narrative or or headline about something is the most loving and God glorifying thing to do. I just don't. So I'll get into the illegal immigration stuff in just a second. But I just wanted to say that those are my like short just extemporaneous thoughts about everything that's going on on social media right now when it comes to this horrendous. story of this man who murdered eight people in Atlanta. He says he did it, by the way, because of a

sex addiction, which we will also talk about. That's going to be lost in this conversation, which should also be, of course, talked about, but we will talk about it on Monday. So all that's coming on Monday. We're going to have a long episode, just like we did back in May or June, and we're going to be as human-centric and as truth-centric as we possibly can in that episode. So just wait for Monday. We'll break it all down. we'll see what the word of God has to say about all of it. Second thing I wanted to just address quickly is that James Coates, whom we have talked about a lot on this podcast, he has been released from jail right now.

I believe the charges have been dropped. They still have to go to trial. So they're going to be things that are going to happen. But I really think that some of this, a lot of this has to do with you guys. Like a lot of this has to do with people talking about it on social media. And I'm not saying like this podcast. or like any one of you or any one post that his wife, Aaron Coates, put out, was the thing that pushed it all over.

But I do think talking about unfair sentencing and unfair punishments and duplicitous standards by the government us talking about that, I do think that it makes a difference. I do think that government officials can feel the heat of righteous indignation. And that's why I say, I said this on social media the other day. Someone was saying, like, how do I push back on my kids' inaccurate curriculum that they're teaching at school? I said, find like-minded people and raise a respectful ruckus about it. Like, arm yourself with facts, arm yourself with the truth, not just feelings and anecdotes. But if there is curriculum that you believe is wrong or harmful, you need to be able to articulate clearly why and then raise a respectful ruckus. about it. And that's what I think that we did with James Coates. That's what a lot of people did. There was a respectful ruckus raised about the injustice of his sentencing, being in jail, even as confirmed, convicted child sex predators were let go in the same sentence without any conditions. And so I do think that us raising a respectful ruckus about injustice makes a difference.

I think it made a difference here. Of course, all under the sovereignty and direction and purpose of God. So thank the Lord for that. Continue to pray for him. Continue to pray for his family. Then another thing that you guys have asked me to talk about that I was going to talk about yesterday and I didn't have time. The Bachelor.

So after the final rose, you guys wanted me to talk about everything that happened there. And there is so much there for us to talk about that I just haven't had time this week. And we're not going to have time to do it today. If y'all are still interested in me talking about it next week, then we will talk about it. Just kind of the lack of mercy, the lack of understanding, the lack of forgiveness when it comes to the issues that we're talked about there, I think is definitely relevant. People always say, why don't you even talk about it, The Bachelor?

Who cares? Well, millions of people care. And if millions of people care, then that means that there is something to analyze there. Like, there's something to look out there. And I just happen to think that the Word of God speaks to every situation, that God has given us all we need for life and godliness, the Bible says. and this is a part of people's life. I don't recommend watching The Bachelor, by the way.

I think it's a lot of trash, but a lot of people do. And so if I can use that as an opportunity to share the gospel and to point us towards God's good and gracious and right justice, then I am going to do that. So we'll talk about that next week, if that's something that you guys still want to talk about. All right, let's talk about this. Just one more thing.

Like, if you're watching on YouTube, you might see in the side camera. I don't know if you can see that my shoes are untied. They are untied. I don't know if you guys can notice things like that, but some of you notice, like, really small things. It's very difficult being as pregnant as I am to tie my shoes. So sometimes it just doesn't happen. I just have to get out the door and not tie my shoes. I don't know if any of you caught that. My shoes are untied. But it's okay. We're all friends. We're family. I know that you guys hopefully aren't judging me for that. All right. Let's get into this. Finally, at the meet of our episode. So what is going on at the border? Is there really a really? crisis. We've been talking about the border crisis for a long time. President Trump ran on that in 2015, 2016. Is it really a crisis? The answer is 100%. Yes. It's been a crisis for a long time. There was a surge in 2018, as I'll talk about with my guest. And there is an unprecedented, almost unprecedented surge happening right now. Daily Wire notes Nora O'Donnells reporting on CBS

that 13,000 minors are currently being held in custody. That is much higher than the 4200 that was reported at the start of the week and they are being held in U.S. custody for an average of 120 hours far longer than the 72 hours allowed by law. There are also reports that are saying that there are kids that are going without food at the border that they're held in these. Now they're calling them holding facilities, but they're the exact same facilities that these kids were being detained in in the Trump administration, except now there's so many more of them. There are less, there's fewer resources for them. And so they are not getting the help in the care that they need. And so what we're called cages under Donald Trump are now being called

holding facilities, but they're the same things. But now the conditions are even worse. And by the way, those facilities that the mainstream media called cages under Donald Trump were built by the Obama DHS. Okay. And so this is the same problem that is happening under Biden and exacerbated caused by his policies, which again, my guest will explain very thoroughly. In a way, these things are happening in a way that we're not happening under Donald Trump because of the incentives that have been placed by the Biden administration you have seen, and we'll put the picture up on, if you're watching on YouTube, we have seen migrants coming to the border to cross over illegally wearing t-shirts that say Biden. Like Biden let us in.

I mean, this is a direct cause of his policy saying that he is going to allow. people in. He's not going to send them back home. And there's basically going to be no more, penalty for that. The article says this in the Daily Wire. Many of the children interviewed by lawyers in recent days said they had not been allowed outdoors for days on end, confined to an overcrowded tent. Look, this is not Border Patrol's problem. Like, this is not the, or this is, I shouldn't say that this is not their problem. This is not their fault. The border officials are doing everything they possibly can to help these people. The fact of the matter is, is that we don't have the facilities to be able to properly care for all the people that are now crossing the border.

They just weren't made for that. They weren't made for the number of people that are currently crossing. And so I believe these border officials are doing the absolute best jobs that they possibly can to be as compassionate as they can and to take care of these people. The fact of the matter is the facilities just were not made for that. Former acting ICE director Tom Holman said last month that the Biden administration designed this border crisis. They're bringing millions of people into this country who will now be counted on the census because Joe Biden overturned that, which leads to seats in the House and Electoral College

in elections. This is power over public safety, the quest for power over protecting American citizens. And so if you're asking why the Democrats in the Biden administration do not care about what's happening at the border, why they are allowing people in willy-nilly in a way that is completely unrestricted, why are they are reversing strict Trump policies at the border is probably for some kind of power. It's not for compassion. There's nothing, let me just be clear. There's nothing compassionate about this situation, not for the people who. who live in the United States, not for the American citizens who live at the border, not for the people on the other side of the border, not for any of the migrants.

I mean, these are people who are being smuggled into the United States. These are people who are being a lot of times smuggled by the cartel. We've already talked about the amount of the number of rapes and sexual assault that happen at the border, how dangerous this is for unaccompanied minors. And when you provide these kinds of incentives and when you don't disincentivize illegal crossings, you get higher deaths of migrants. This is not safe. This is not compassionate for anyone.

Strict border policy is compassionate border policy. The Daily Wire also reports. The DHS says that U.S. is on pace for the highest number of illegal border crossings in 20 years. The border situation is difficult. The typical Democrat talking point blames the ongoing child migrant issue on the Trump administration's immigration policies. That's what we've heard Biden's press secretary say, which turned away vulnerable children, forcing them to remain in Mexico while their asylum claims were processed. But here's the reality. The number of children crossing by themselves rose 60% from January to more than 9,400 in February.

The most recent statistics available say this is ABC. The overall increase is blamed on a number of factors, including the economic upheaval caused by the pandemic in Central America and two recent hurricanes in the region. U.S. officials have also conceded that smugglers have likely encouraged people to try to cross under the new administration. And like I said, I think that there is something political here. Like who passed out those T-shirts to the migrants? Who made the T-shirts and who passed out the T-shirts to the migrants and gave them to them? Like, whose PR opportunity is this? That's evil.

That is evil. That's corrupt. And it's exploiting these people who I do believe are trying to come here for a better life. I'm not blaming the people who are trying to come here because I believe that they are fleeing poverty. They're fleeing corrupt governments who keep on. I'm sorry for my French, but screwing them over and over again,

who care nothing for their safety, who care nothing. for their economic stability. And I don't blame them at all for wanting to come here and to start a new life. The question is, does the United States have an obligation to allow everyone in who wants to come in? No, I don't think so. Of course, that's not an anti-immigrant stance. I do believe that we should have a number of immigrants that comes every year. I believe in compassion for true refugees and for true asylum seekers, but simply wanting to come here for a better life because America's a country than your country is not a right. That's not a justification for allowing someone in illegally. It also smacks legal citizens in the face who worked so hard to go through the legal process and do

everything responsibly that they needed to do to become American citizens. If you do not have a border, you don't have a nation. You don't have a sovereign nation, which means that your laws don't matter, which means there are no special privileges or rights that you have as a citizen, which means that the government has no ability to be able to protect those rights and protect you. And so whenever someone says that, well, we just need to let people in because that's the compassionate thing to do, the question is, do you think there should ever be a limit? Should there ever be qualifications to allow someone in? Like, is there any kind of criminal background that could exclude someone from admission

into the country? Is there any possible reason that we should be able to exclude someone from coming in the country illegally without a legal process. And if the answer is no, then you're not dealing with any sort of serious person. This ridiculous argument, which has no basis in reality or logic, that America is stolen land, so we don't have the right to say who should come in our country and who shouldn't. If America is stolen land, then virtually every country on earth is stolen land. I mean, the history of the world, unfortunately, is a brutal history of conquering and being conquered. Every people group, every skin color, every creed has oppressed and has been an oppressor

or has enslaved or been enslaved has been enslaved, has been conquered or has been a conquered. That is just true of every civilization. And then to say that today, there is no justification to having sovereign borders and to being able to protect the rights and the safety of your citizens. It's ludicrous. It's not based, again, on any reaction. This is about power for a lot of people. I think a lot of people think that it's compassionate. But again, there's nothing that is going on at the border right now or with our immigration process that is compassionate.

So what this has led to is actually thousands of adolescents being separated from their families, if they came with their families. A lot of them came unaccompanied and taking them to places like Midland, Texas, taking them to places like Dallas, Texas. And the local officials and the state officials, apparently reportedly have had no say in this whatsoever. Like they haven't had to give permission. They haven't told the public, hey, here's why.

For example, in Dallas, there are 3,000 reportedly 15 to 17 year old males being placed in this convention center and here's what's going to happen to them. Like, does the public have any right to be concerned? And this is not to say that we think all of those people are bad or that we think all of those people are worse than Americans. that's not the point, but people do have a right to be concerned about things like MS-13. People do have a right to be concerned about like what is going to happen to their community. And to say that they don't have a right to be concerned is the most privileged argument that you can possibly make.

Because the people who are going to be most affected by this kind of thing, if it does cause, for example, if it causes any kind of uptick in crime or something like that, I know that we already have plenty of crime to deal with, among our own citizens. But if it causes any sort of threat or any sort of danger, the people who pay the price for that are not the rich people living in their gated communities. It's not the people in the suburbs. It's the people who are already impoverished and are already vulnerable. Those are the people that you are hurting by this kind of unmitigated releasing of illegal immigrants into the country. Again, there's nothing compassionate about this. The Washington Examiner, family sending children alone across the border in response to Biden policies.

The families are exploiting Biden administration rules against immediately returning unaccompanied children from countries other than Mexico said the individual with knowledge of discussions at the Department of Homeland Security. The policy has created a loophole for families who have been turned away after they illegally came over the border and were pushed back into Mexico by Border Patrol. Immigration lawyers told NBC News that the strategy presents the best chance the children will be able to stay in the United States after being released to a sponsor in the country, even if it means the parent cannot go with them. And so there is child separation

happening. And I was against, and I'm still against true separation of children from their true parents. The fact of the matter is, is that many times traffickers will pose as children's parents to try to get across the border themselves. But obviously, they're not really children's parents. And so in that case, I do want the child to be separated from the trafficker and to be made safe. But if there is a mother and her child is with her, even if they're coming over illegally, I do not believe in disincentivizing the crossing of the border by separating that true family. I mean, I just, it doesn't matter how against illegal immigration I am. I cannot stand with that kind of disincentivizing tactic, that kind of.

of punitive treatment. I just cannot agree with the separation of true families. But that kind of thing, in another way, is still happening under the Biden administration. So you just need to think about for a second, the kind of media hypocrisy that we saw. I mean, I know people who voted for Biden on the border crisis. Like, I know people who perpetuated that kids in cages thing, saying that this was just, this was a Trump administration thing that this is what it means to be a white supremacist president, and he is the most cruel president. Republicans are so cruel when it comes to what's happening at the border. No, Republicans want to cure borders.

It's not an anti-immigrant stance. It's not even an anti-illegal immigrant stance. It is an anti-illegal immigration stance. It's not against who they are as people. It's not thinking that they're worse people than anyone else. It's not even saying that there's a higher likelihood among them. to be bad people or to be criminals or anything like that. The question is, is this good policy for the country?

Like, who does this actually help at the end of the day? I believe that it helps no one. And I believe that every single country, whether it is Kenya or the United States, has a right to protect their borders and not just a right, but also a responsibility. I want to talk about this also from a Christian perspective, because a lot of people use, for example, Exodus 22, 21 that says you shall not wrong a sojourner or oppress him for your sojourners in the land of Egypt to say that that means that we should have open borders.

We should just allow everyone in who wants to come in and that's the Christian way. Well, that is a poor understanding of what this means. And if you look at what it actually meant to be a sojourner in Israel, yes, they were supposed to accept the foreigner. but that foreigner was forced to acclimate to their rules and to their laws to basically become one of them. There was a process by which these sojourners and these foreigners became a part of them in a way that is not forced here in the United States.

And so if you're going to use that as your example, if you're going to use God's law for ancient Israel as an our example for immigration policy today, then what you're actually saying is that you believe in a legal process by which immigrants should come in and be acclimated to American culture and become a part of American culture and actually follow American law. There is no justification whatsoever in the Bible for breaking immigration law. There's just not. And in fact, a reading of Romans 13 will tell us that we're actually supposed to respect governing authorities.

We've talked about that passage before, what it means and what it doesn't mean. So we do believe that breaking the law in that way is a sin. That doesn't mean that we don't have compassion for their station or we don't have compassion for their circumstance. We do believe in accepting true refugees through a legal process. We do believe in seeking and filing for asylum through a legal process. But we believe that there's definitions of these things. We believe that there should be a legal process to citizenship. And again, people who say that there shouldn't be, Who are you helping? Truly, who are you helping?

I don't think anyone, and I certainly know that that's not what Exodus 22-21 means. Saying that we are going to enforce our border laws is not oppressing the sojourner. Jeremiah 7 5 through 7 does tell us this. This is, of course, the prophet Jeremiah telling God's people, for if you truly amend your ways and your deeds, if you truly execute justice one with another, if you do not oppress the sojourner, the fatherless, or the widow, or shed innocent blood in this place. And if you do not go after other gods to your own harm, then I will let you dwell in this

place in the land that I gave of old to your father's forever. So of course, we know that America isn't like an ancient Israel isn't a metaphor for America. America isn't modern day Israel. And that's certainly not what I'm saying. And I don't think that's what anyone who uses this is saying, but also to use this in the sense that this means we are supposed to have open borders. It's just a poor interpretation of the text. And it lacks historical context of, again, what it actually meant to be a sojourner. We can absolutely have compassion. By the way, America accepts more immigrants every year than any other country by far. So to say that America is a country that oppresses the immigrants, there is no other country that has shown more compassion and has given more resources to

both immigrants and illegal immigrants in the world. There's no other country that has done it. But again, I believe that the responsible, compassionate thing to do is to guard your borders as strictly as possible to make the legal process for citizenship as efficient as possible and to disincentivize inhumane ways this dangerous and exploitative crossing of the border that is rife with trafficking and corruption and drug trafficking and rape and effective. assault and all kinds of danger that, again, is not good for anyone. I don't think that that is how we love the sojourner and love the foreigner by any means. Now, Wayne Grudom is a theologian.

I've had him on my podcast, who has talked about this before. He has talked about kind of the objection to any kind of border policy or even a border wall that says the Bible tells us to care for the sojourner. Here's what he says. He says, I agree, but we still must have some means. of regulating how many sojourners we allow into the country and who can qualify to enter. He says a wall is the most effective way to do this. When the Bible says, love the sojourner, therefore, for you are sojourners in the land of Egypt, Deuteronomy 1019. Old Testament professor James Hoffmeier has demonstrated that these sojourners are resident

foreigners in one translation were people who had entered the country legally with the permission and knowledge of the country that admitted them. The unmodified term foreigner in some translations is not specific enough to translate Hebrew Gare, that is the word for resident foreigners or sojourners. A foreigner who had entered a country by stealth, it did not have recognized standing as a resident alien was not considered a sojourner, but simply a foreigner. And still, we are called not to oppress those people. I do not think executing the law to make sure that citizenship and the safety of our citizens

matters counts as oppression. We have to be cynical about this as well as humane. And I absolutely think that we can be both. We also have to, I mean, we have to think about the well-being of American citizens, too. And that's not like people say that it has to do with whiteness. I mean, America is one of the most diverse countries in the world. When we say citizens, we're not talking about white people. We're talking about all different kinds of people. We're talking about people of all different original nationalities. We're talking about the whole mosaic that makes up the United States. We're talking about immigrants. We're talking about people with different melanin counts, different ethnicities and all of that. Citizenship does not equate to whiteness. And anyone who

tells you that is, again, trafficking in some kind of nonsense of critical theory and intersectionality that just doesn't correspond, just doesn't correspond to reality. And so, yes, I think that as Christians, we absolutely have to defend the rightness, the logic, even the morality and compassion of strict border policy. And look, we can do whatever we can to help those other countries to try to stabilize them. The fact of the matter is is that America has sent those countries foreign aid for a very long time. A lot of those countries are simply corrupt. They are corrupt in a lot of ways, and a lot of them are simply poor. And I'm not blaming the people who live there again for wanting to get out of them.

But America is the country where everyone wants to come to. And I don't think just because you want to go into a country, you have a right to go into that country, especially not by a legal process. And when people say that about America, they say that's bigoted. But if I said that, you know, you don't have a right to just walk into Kenya. and become a Kenyan, just because you say that you want to become a Kenyan, people would agree with that. They would actually say someone who did that would be guilty of white privilege. And so I think we need to be fair here. Like I think we need to be honest here. America, like every country has a right to protect her borders, has a responsibility to protect her

borders, a leader who fails to put the interests of his country as a top priority and the safety of his country as a top priority is a failed leader. It's not a good. leader. That's not a compassionate leader. That's not a righteous leader in any way. All right. And so that's just kind of giving you an overview of everything that's happening. And I want to talk now to Daniel Horowitz, who is going to kind of give us the rundown on all of this. And I'll just say, like, some of the things that he is going to say are going to, especially if you are someone who's on the other side of the aisle listening to this, like I just encourage you to, you to, hear us out because he's like very understandably passionate about the subject, passionate about

illegal immigration. Like hear out the points that he brings up. Again, this is not about being against people. This is being against bad policy that we think has a bad effect on people. And he's going to talk about this hypocrisy of COVID regulations and the kind of lack of regulations that are happening in regards to COVID when it comes to allowing illegal immigrants. And this is truly, truly a crisis. And he's going to give us some steps to take. And he's going to give us a little bit more insight into what is going on. Daniel, thank you so much for joining us. I want to get your insight in everything that's happening at the border and immigration-wise. You mentioned before we started this interview that you've kind of been focused on COVID, COVID regulations,

trends, things like that. But really, your focus has been immigration for a very long time, correct? Absolutely. And really about 15 years. This was the first year I've ever taken off of it. And as we well remember, 2018, 2019 was kind of the Super Bowl of this issue when we saw hundreds of thousands of Central Americans stream across the border. And I just want to actually maybe start there, the convergence of COVID and illegal immigration. because I think that's really important.

I had a little bit of a different insight than everyone else did when COVID hit. Because, you know, that was only less than a year after the first crisis in our time, 2018, 2019 at the border. And one of the things I covered very closely was the run on the hospitals by illegal aliens. It was a huge, it's a generic problem, even on the interior it's been talked about for many years. But in 2018, 2019, especially during the January 2019 flu season, we had them coming in with influenza, scabies. There were a lot of mumps outbreaks as well in some of the ice facilities. Lots of contagious viruses were coming across.

And local communities, local mayors would tell me that to deal with it. Americans had to wait online at emergency rooms and places like Yuma and Del Rio and Texas. And I was saying to myself, you mean to tell me. me there's no public health prioritization we can make that say, hey, look, even if we take in illegal immigrants as a baseline, we're not going to do it now. And it was like, no, you have to accept them in. They're all asylum seekers. Then fast forward, we went through COVID and it was like, Ali, there is nothing a government cannot do if you say COVID with a noun, a verb, in a command, in a sentence, your life, liberty, property, gone. The objective of alleviating

the stress on hospitals is the number one priority of government. This is what we were told. And supposedly these measures were supposedly going to work, which they clearly really didn't. And there were three subsequent waves even after they did it. But nonetheless, that was their intent. And that brings us to today. And to me, what is so shocking, what people don't realize is, typically when we see waves of illegal immigration, it's not a natural disaster, like a hurricane, a flood. There's a reason for it.

They respond commensurately and directly and specifically to the loopholes and the magnets that you dangle in front of them. That's what they will take, and that's what the smugglers and the cartels will be well acquainted with, whether it's an executive loophole or a court-mandated loophole.

They will cross people in the areas and with the type of demographics, that will best utilize that. We've never seen it so direct. We had it covered. The border closed up. Because of COVID, Trump was turning people back.

You know, I mean, illegal immigration should always really be illegal. And this is really what we should have been doing for years. But we finally did it. Forget about this cumbersome process where you kind of bring them in and they have a million different ways of litigating their way in.

Just turn them around. If you want to come, go apply. like every other country does. Biden took that plug out of the drain and directly opened it and said, no, now you can come back in. And especially if you come in as an unaccompanied teenager.

And that's really what's the leading edge of this flow. So then guess what? The smuggler said to the families, here, let's sever off your 15, 16, 17-year-old boys and come in and then there's going to be a crisis. They're piling up. Then we're going to have to mandate and say, look, well, they can't be without their families.

So it's kind of a one-two punch. But to come back just with to finish this first point, think about it. If you're the Biden administration, there's nothing more important than COVID, right? I mean, we could do anything we want to human beings. We could put a mask on two-year-olds, toddlers crying on airplanes, no matter what, this is the biggest thing. We have to stop. Maybe you could have small gatherings at July 4th. We have to stop the large gatherings, the movement of people.

Well, Ali, what is the greatest large mass gathering of human beings that is the most dangerous epidemiologically speaking? That is transnational migration because you're bringing in people suddenly from multiple different epidemiological curves. So, you know, what we've seen with this virus is that, you know, it's very seasonal and geographical. So we seem to be kind of done at least with this wave, it's on a lull. But, you know, the winter spread happens in the southern latitudes a little later. We learned this last year.

The Hope Simpson curve. So if you're from Central American countries, they're going to get what we would get in January, they'll get more in April and March and maybe May. Suddenly, nothing matters. The run on the hospitals. I'm hearing there's people in the Del Rio hospitals again.

Suddenly, it doesn't matter. There's a two-tier justice system in this country. We now have a government of by and for illegal aliens. What they do to American people, they are not willing to do to stop illegal immigration. So what I hear is push back to that. And I just want to hear your reaction to it because after Governor Abbott in Texas, he said, okay, there's not going to be a statewide mask mandate. We're going to open businesses. Businesses and individuals can kind of make their own choices. Of course, you got a lot of pushback from the mainstream media, from Democratic politicians, Democratic activists.

And now you are having those same people say that those who are making the argument that you just did, that, okay, we're bringing in illegal immigrants completely unfettered, not testing them for COVID. And apparently we're just not worried about the spread of COVID. people are saying, well, that is just a white supremacist racist trope that immigrants are bringing in diseases, that they are, you know, bringing in all of these, you know, bringing in these viruses. That's just not true. That's the kind of pushback that I'm seeing on Twitter that I'm seeing from people in the media that, no, no, no, you actually don't have to worry about the spread of COVID when it comes to illegal

immigration. There's no correlation there. And to assert that is just racist. So first off, it's kind of funny because I'm not into the racial argument, but it's actually CDC that says blacks and Hispanics are four times more vulnerable. And that's why they're actually downright having segregated vaccination programs to prioritize that. I mean, that's their agenda. In the sense that they're more likely to die of the disease or die of the virus than a non-Hispanic or non-black person. So they're saying they're saying it both in terms of dying from it and as well

contracting it as well. I don't know if that's true, but that is certainly, I'm actually doing an article on that today with the vaccination programs. They're saying that in Ohio, for example, they have different counties that are mandating a certain amount of vaccines could only go to non-whites, and they have non-whites only, I think they call it qualified people of color, could come to a certain vaccination drive. So it's actually interesting. I wasn't thinking of that until you brought that up, but they're the ones who are making a racial issue. But here's the more fundamental thing. This was the argument made more three years ago, 10 years ago, when I was dealing with this. Many of us were saying, look, you know, the vaccination rates are lower there. They have a different

standard of care. We were worried about kind of rare things that we had more or less eradicated. Tuberculosis is a huge issue there that is not so much of an issue here. any ICE agent will tell you that they often have latent TB from being around them. It means like dormant TB because CBP or ICE often have that because they're around them. Mumps, Texas Department of Health, it's still on their website, I believe today that Texas has a much bigger Mumps problem in anywhere in the country. But again, that was the argument I've been dealing with for 15 years.

Right now, COVID changed everything. It was all of us, regardless of whether we had it, have symptoms, don't have symptoms, whether we're vaccinated or not. We are all suspect. And we all have to limit our movement, limit our gathering, and have to be tested. So we're just saying to treat them equally. We're not saying our argument is not that they have a greater rate of it. That is nothing to do with it. It's the same.

But moreover, it's the argument, Allie, I gave you a minute ago, which is very important. And we saw this in June and July of last year. it's not that some countries are worse than others. It's that they're on different timelines, seasonality and geography. So typically, I am very much of the opinion that the virus is going to virus. And what's called non-pharmaceutical interventions really don't help.

And it's very natural and cyclical, and it's been proven to do what it does. But the worst thing, if you believe in NPI's, the worst thing you can do is unnaturally bring in, hundreds of thousands of people from all different corners of the world, especially if you're for locking down Americans in America,

you know, they're coming in very close quarters, they're in their camps, in the cars, they pack in a lot of people at once. So the notion that you're suddenly not scared about transnational migration, but you're putting on curfews within American cities, is

indefensible. But then again, I guess it is all about their race and racial agenda because, Ali, we saw this last year. You know, we were coming off of the greatest cessation of travel and movement in American history. Immediately, starting May 25th, we went from having nothing to having what they themselves bragged about. I think some estimated as many as 40 million people participated. The largest, most ubiquitous mass gatherings in American history with the BLM protests. So BLM doesn't spread either. Our argument wasn't that they spread more. It was just to treat it equally. Right, right. And that's what exactly what you're

saying about immigration. It's not that they're special carriers or special vectors of viruses, but just like all human beings, we all have the potential to carry a virus. And like you said, if we're going to regulate American citizens based on the fact that they could carry and spread the virus, then why aren't we regulating illegal immigrants in the same way? But it's not just that Biden is saying, all right, come in, we'll figure it out. Maybe we'll give you a path to citizenship, but you can kind of stay here. We're not going to turn you back. But there are also hundreds of adolescents, and you alluded to this just a few minutes ago, that are being taken from the border and transported to places like Dallas, staying in the Kay Bailey Hutchins Arena, Convention Center,

are being transferred to Midland. And then from what I read and what I hear, the local officials there they didn't have any say in it and they didn't they don't know what's going on and there's just a huge mystery kind of surrounding this like what's going to happen to these young people like I don't blame these young people in particular but what's going to happen to them and and how are we going to navigate this and by the way why why why is this happening and has this ever happened before there are just a lot of questions and not very many answers when it comes to that this is really the third wave of What is designated legally by DHS as UAC's unaccompanied alien children. Let's go through a deep dive with that.

It was 2014, 2018, and then now. And again, each time it was responding to a specific incentive in 2014. It was DACA in 2018. It was California judges ruling that they had to be released. And then now it was going, again, harking back to the COVID stuff. Trump implemented Title 42, which is not an immigration law, but public health law, again, I mean, if we're shutting down businesses, shutting down, you know, domestic movement, so we're certainly going to shut down

illegal migration, and Biden directly took that off, what the cartels were told, so there's three statuses. And it's important to keep in mind, they're not different demographics. They're the same people. They're different strategies of how to cross over. There's single adults. There's family units that have adults and kids. and then there's the unaccompanied kids coming over alone.

What they were told is that immediately they took away Title 42, turning people around for the UAC. So they'll be let in. Family units, it kind of depends on the sector, and there's some confusion about that. And single adults, they're still doing Title 42. So if you look at the data, it directly reflects that. And what's funny is, so you think, wow, there's a bunch of asylum problems that just affect teens, but not males, but just these people.

No, it's a strategy that the cartels employ where they basically exploit whatever loophole we give them. So it's not that you have teens running around alone. Here's the important, relevant thing a lot of people don't realize. where this notion comes from that we treat these people almost like refugees, where we bring them in, we turn them over to HHS, the Office of Refugee Resettlement, and they hold them. And in this case, they don't have enough room because there's so many, so they're finding all these places. And you're asking about the next step. The next step is they're coming in.

They're coming into Fairfax, Virginia, to Montgomery County, Maryland. I say that because the largest buildup of UAC resettlement in America is actually the counties around our nation's capital. So that's actually the border. What comes at the border doesn't stay there. That's what you're learning in Dallas and Midland, but you're going to see that really in every state. And the thing about, there's a lot to say about UACs. The thing about them is, in 2008,

is when we passed this Wilberforce Trafficking Act. Section 235A defines three criterion to be eligible for this program, and basically they're resettled as refugees. Number one, they have to indeed be children. many of them are not children. So that's another thing. You know, how do you tell a difference between a 19 year old and a 17 year old?

I had a border agent who told me he had a guy there. He worked with in the agency who was a dentist. And sometimes he examined their teeth. And he was able to tell, you know, that some of them were lying. And number two, they have no parent or guardian present in the country. And number three, that they're a very very. victims of, quote, a severe form of trafficking. So it was designed to me and someone grabs a guy, brings them across the kid, brings them across

the border. So, of course, we're going to take care of them, right? Instead, it's been used against us. It's a smuggling conspiracy used against us. The family's self-smuggle pay to have their kids smuggled because they know that's a ticket. It's more the tail wagging the dog because we have that incentive. They're not victims of trafficking. their self-traffic. And then

they indeed do have family and guardians in America. They're not here alone. They're the ones paying for them to come. Department of Homeland Security report two years ago showed that 90% of them were resettled with other

illegal alien families already here. So they're not alone. They're not traffic. They're not kidnapped. They really do not qualify for this status. But to answer your question, what is is going to happen is they will be resettled. And, you know, we could get into this as kind of a longer discussion. The next step is MS-13. We almost eradicated MS-13 in this country last decade.

The 2014 wave and then reinforced by the 2018 wave has grown MS-13 and the 13th, 18th Street gang and several other transnational gangs beyond the scale that they've ever been before, because remember these are often very hardened young males. And you know what, Ali, I cover crime a lot. I'm very into that issue, criminal justice. It's not just Central Americans. It's any country. The demographic doing the crime is not the 60-year-old.

So it's not the 60-year-old illegal aliens you have to worry about in terms of criminality. It's going to be those young males and they're getting, and again, this is true domestically too. they're getting younger and younger the degree of violent crime they commit and what's happening now and I'm from Maryland this is all over the place Montgomery PG counties

and then also on the Virginia side because you have a very large Salvadoran population you have these teens that come in cart blanche so irresponsibly in such large numbers they have no connection to the country they have no sense of purpose

and what it's doing is they are the most vulnerable. Rod Rosenstein of all people, because he was U.S. Attorney of Maryland before he was in the Justice Department, he saw this. And he said that is really where they saw this recruitment. And when you're young and new into a gang, you really have to show your moxie and up the ante of your violence and get more gruesome than anyone else.

And we've been seeing this. So when you see, you know, 30,000, teenagers, primarily young males reaching that age of criminality that is true of every country, you're seeing the future of MS-13's growth. Talk to me. You touched on this, but talk to me specifically about the difference between Trump's policy regarding immigration, what was happening at the border, and Biden's policy that has incentivized this.

I know that you said that Trump said, okay, you got to turn around if you come to the border. That's the bottom line. And it's not turning around people who have actually, you know, filed for asylum and have been accepted. It's not even applying necessarily to true refugees. We're talking about people who are trying to inter illegally. Trump tried to deter that. You're saying that the Biden administration has incentivized that. That's why we're seeing such a huge surge in illegal immigration.

And we're seeing this transportation of things. thousands of young men to cities across the country. Talk to me specifically about what those policies are by the Biden administration and what you think is the why behind it, because it's very hard for me to see the reasoning behind these kinds of policies. Sure. It's truly shocking, but I think we need, again, a little bit of a background on the history of this. A lot of people when they talk about the border, they get caught up with the manpower, the strategies, the border wall, the infrastructure. And, you know, I was always of the opinion from my experience dealing with really every facet of this issue that it's not a manpower issue. It's a legal incentive issue.

If you ask them to come, they'll come. If you don't, they won't. I once wrote an article, the best way to stop illegal immigration is by making illegal immigration illegal. Right. We don't because, I mean, officially it is, but then wink and nod, we offer all these incentives and bring them in and you have the whole court system and everything. And the reality is there's nothing natural about this. There's nothing, you know, or there's nothing specific going on now. There's no asylum, right? Say what you want about the Northern Triangle, but it's a very homogenous area.

You don't have a distinct ethnic, racial, political minority being persecuted by a majority where you could disentangle a minority from the majority like the Yazidis with the Sunni Muslims in northern Iraq. You know, that's not what's going on. What's going on is this. There's 84 countries that I have counted in the world that have a GDP per capita lower than that of Guatemala. So if you telegraph the message that you could just come here, I mean, it doesn't take a genius to realize there's about one to two billion people in the world who would want to come here. And I can't blame them. They're kind of crappy areas to live in. There's a lot of poverty.

There's a lot of problems. And yeah, I mean, we recognize that. But if you believe in that, you actually have a moral obligation to lend boats and bring in a billion people from all those. 84 countries that have a GDP at or lower that of Guatemala. And at least you cut out the middlemen. You cut out the cartels and the money they make and the human trafficking and the rapes and all the problems that come on the way. I mean, if that's what you want to do, land boats.

But, you know, that would expose the absurdity of what they're doing so they don't do that. Instead, what happens is that Central America, because it's a land bridge and they have such established smuggling routes, and they've had so much illegal immigration for so many years. So they want, the more you have, the more you have, because then they have their communities and family and relatives. So, you know, if you're, if you're just from Madagascar or something, how many people from Madagascar in the country? So it's not as enticing to come. But nonetheless, they are coming a lot now from Romania, from Brazil, certainly Haiti and Cuba. I could actually look at, I have the latest numbers here from Texas DPS for the week ending in March 10.

which, by the way, we're catching about 5,400 people a day. That's an annualized flow, if you extrapolate that, of 2 million people. And, yeah, I mean, I see here we got Romania, we got Congo. Again, not as many numbers as the Central American country is Venezuela, is a big one, Ecuador, Brazil. I mean, you know, the left is really yelping about the Brazilian variant of COVID. It's interesting. We do have a lot of Brazilians coming. You know, over 100 a week have been caught.

So a lot of extracontinentals as well. So that's important to recognize. This is not about, oh my gosh, there are the people A are being persecuted by people B at this time, this place. No. It's general, impoverished countries will always, people will always come here if they can. If they're incentivized to do. So. What kept them from doing that?

there were three things that Trump implemented and Biden took them off. Number one was, you know, he had multilateral agreements with really the four relevant countries to the south of us to say that you have to claim, if you really are in asylum, if you genuinely are, you have to claim asylum in the first safe country. And by the way, the UN does designate, recognize Mexico as a safe country. So, you know, do you really want to come to America just to get a job or family reunification? Or are you really being persecuted? And the proof is in the pudding.

You know, if it wasn't about that, you would claim asylum there. And connected to that was also that you can't just have hundreds of thousands of people break in and say asylum. No. We'll take your application, but you have to do it waiting in Mexico. So that was called the MPP migration protocol policy as well as the third party agreement. So those two together made it that they didn't want to come because as you all know, Allie, this is not about escaping what was in their country, at least not in an individualized persecution. It's more about they want to come to America specifically.

They don't want to come to Iceland. They don't want to come to any other kind. That's where they want to come. Which of course is, I mean, like you said, it's understandable. but if there's not a process, a legal process by which they can follow or by which they are following, then of course we cease to be a country. We cease to be sovereign. We cease to be able to protect our own citizens.

And of course, people so quickly say, well, that's an anti-immigrant stance. And it's the farthest thing from the truth. It's actually about protecting people of all different kinds, of all different original nationalities that are in the United States, especially legally. citizenship has to mean something. It should be that the government is looking out for your rights and looking out for your protections. And that does mean, securing the border.

I mean, we went from America first, at least tried to be America first under Donald Trump to it seems like America dead last under Joe Biden. And unfortunately, this is a product of that. And also, I think people forget that illegal immigration is not actually compassionate for

the illegal immigrants coming in. It is very dangerous at the border. And the more people there are, the more the smugglers are incentivized, the more coyotes are incentivized, and the vulnerable, the children, the women especially, are made victims through this process. There's nothing compassionate about what is going on at the border under Joe Biden. And I guess my last question for you is, like, what do we do? People feel totally powerless. People in Dallas are like, what the heck are we going to do? Like, how do we deal with this? What's your advice? Yeah, I mean, it's really, I think to answer your other question first, also, what was Biden thinking? I think they believe their own naivity. So in other words, sometimes when you put a promulgate a talking point for so long, you start believing it. And they're obsessed with, these are persecuted people at asylum.

And no, because that would be finite and limited to a time, place, and people. It's endless. It's every impoverished country. If you tell them you could now come, they'll all come. And then they're like, holy heck, I didn't realize that. I think they didn't realize like you have no idea. There are millions where they come from in this pipeline. And I think that's what they're starting to realize that we were right all along when we said that the whole thing was a scam.

It had nothing to do with with asylum. You think they are realizing that? Because I did hear Biden say, oh, if you're planning to come here, stay in your town. And I'm like, well, I'm sure that's not going to be super effective. Well, it rings hollow with them, you know, unless they actually, you know, start doing Title 42 again and turning them around. So it will be interesting to see if they're forced to just because it was done too quickly. Not that they care about the border.

But I think they didn't think it would happen this quickly. Like it took about, I'm trying to remember, it took about 12 to 13 months in the 2018 crisis to get to these numbers, we got here in two. Yeah. So, but that happened under Trump, though, which means that Republicans and Democrats have failed at this. Yeah.

And I, you know, I mean, you remember at the time, I was really pressuring the Trump administration to put in place these things. And it took a year longer than I wanted to, but they got to it eventually. But that really was spearheaded by the courts. This is spearheaded by the executive branch this time.

But I think, I think what's important in terms of my solution. My solution is going to be the states. And I think just as a philosophical and legal background, I think you mentioned something about anti-immigrant and immigrant this. And there's a lot we could talk about. And you're absolutely right that you don't do them any favors. Obviously, you're empowering their cartels. They're bringing in a record amount of drugs because while they throw the families at the agents, they bring in the drugs.

And also, that's where they bring in the previously deported sex offenders. A lot of people don't realize on a typical year, this is from last fiscal year, just the people that ICE arrested. And mind you, they don't have access to a lot of the sanctuary areas where most of them live. They had a cumulative total of 6,88 sex offenses, 5,350 sex assaults, and 1739 commercialized sexual assaults. Trump, over the last number of years, deported thousands of those people. Those people are making their way back now. And what happens is the cartels, so they have a business model where if you're a family, you pay about $5,000. But if you're a previously deported dude, a criminal guy with a criminal record, so the thing about you is you don't want to meet an agent, even under an open border, because presumably they're going to remove you and maybe throw you in jail.

So you have to cross surreptitiously, right? You have to successfully evade, not just be delivered into their hands. So that's usually going to be $12,000. So they have the, they're called suicide loads where they throw on the Rio Grande River, they send all the rafts in, and then the agents have to deal with it. And boom, that's when they bring in the really bad guys. The number of sex offenders apprehended just for the first five months of this year is three times more than last year. And you've got to believe the cartels of a pretty good business model. So those are the ones we catch.

you can imagine the majority of them we don't catch. And I could tell you the number of godaways we typically catch about 5,400 a day the last couple of weeks, just illegal aliens. The number of gotaways, these are the people that through the

blimps, the cameras, the footprints, they have ways of counting and it's a fraction of the ones that they really you know, that really got away, about 1,500 a day. So about maybe a quarter of the flow are gotaways. Wow. But it's really a lot more than that.

Those people, pound per pound, are much, much worse. Because by definition, those are the ones that have to pay more to strategically be brought in because they have criminal records. Right. So here's what's important. Texas has to step up and other states should crowdsource public and private funds to help Texas and Arizona. Number one, Texas DPS.

They are starting to do this. So what they tell me, what border agents tell me is, while they have to be babysitters, at least Texas DPS could fill in those gaps to try to be spotters for them and get the bad guys,

at least the bad guys. Now, look, ultimately they can't really hold them for long and they turn them over to ICE, and I have heard that ICE is even releasing criminal aliens. because Biden doesn't view foreign national drug traffickers

and drunk drivers as really a crime. So they have to have murder. Let's assume murder and rapists they'll hold. I think maybe we could assume that. I don't know. But that's where it's important for Texas DPS. They need to, Texas isn't in their state legislative session. They've got to push that.

There's two more bills and I know you've got to run. SB 1254. That's a bill by Senator Hall. in the Texas legislature to create an interstate compact with other states to start cooperating on ways to deter illegal immigration. I don't have time to get into it now, but I wrote an article at the blaze how states can deter and block caravans on their own, the legal and moral case for it. I quote a lot from Scalia on this issue.

have sovereignty. All things equal as the federal job, but if they're working with the cartels to complete the cycle of a criminal smuggling conspiracy, a state is not left to just die. I mean, you can't, you can't do that to them. They have the right to push them out. We're not talking about states setting up their own visa programs or their own system, but they have the right to protect their jurisdictional integrity. Right. So, and I think you're going to need other states. And here's the biggie. HB. 2862, have Texas build the wall. It is their territory.

It's their territory. This is Representative Slayton's bill. They have the ability to do it. I think, you know, if they're worried about the budget, the American people would love to donate to something like that. And the reason why this is so important is because right now, we have half-baked construction, which is worse than no construction. The Biden administration, even if you oppose the wall,

you want to complete the infrastructure in the gaps and then walk away from it. But instead, what they did is, it's now worse than before because Border Patrol created access roads to build it. You know, they have to have access roads. So you have a lot of very rugged areas in the big bend in the West. They never crossed there. Never. Now I see they're crossing there. It's unbelievable.

Yeah. And it's the same thing in Cochise County, Arizona, very rugged. They're crossing there. Wow. Why? Because now they could get cars in to access roads through the gaps because it's not completed, but now they have the access roads. They're nothing but cartel roads that we have built for them. Oh, man. We got problems. And you laid it out really well. And I know a lot of people are worried. But look, like you said, take the advice that Daniel is giving us. Make sure that you are holding your state legislators accountable on this. I know, you know, some people in California, it's a lot. lost cause for some people. But what we are seeing is a crisis.

It's not good for anyone. For anyone coming in, anyone already in here. So thank you for explaining that. Can you just tell everyone where they can follow and find you? Sure. So obviously you could follow me at the Blaze Podcasts or iTunes, CR podcast. I have a lot of guests on that discuss this in depth, as well as my own intel that I get every day, as well as many, many, many other issues at RM Conservative on Twitter.

and of course at The Blaze with all of our columns and articles. And Allie, thanks so much. I really enjoy your show. Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. Really looking for it to come back. Take care. So I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation.

I know that it was a lot. There's just a lot going on. I just want to end the week by reminding you to, just as I have to do every day, to try to be as good. as we can at combining the compassion, or the compassion that is demanded of us in Scripture with the truth. I don't believe in compromising one for the other. I think that sometimes we can swing on that pendulum, but God calls us to both. And I think we have such a perfect embodiment of that in Jesus himself, that he never compromised in the truth. Like, he was very harsh. And I think sometimes

even sarcastic. Like, you can read Jesus and your feelings can get hurt because he really is so, blunt with the truth, but he was always caring and attentive and gentle in his presentation of the truth and his talking about sin and his urging toward repentance. And he called the rich and the powerful to repent. He also called the poor and the sick and the lame to repent. So God cared about the truth or Jesus cared about the truth. He cared about repentance. He cared about sin and salvation.

even as at the same time and is driven by his love for people. And I pray that we would be the same way. And we're going to fail at it. But when it comes to these kinds of conversations, especially when it comes to illegal immigration, it can be so difficult to have these conversations in a way that actually makes sense. But we have to understand what's really going on. And again, what is happening there right now is not love.

It's not compassion. And the fact that the media covers it one way when a Republican is in office and another way, when a Democrat is in office, just tells us, like, we don't need to take our moral cues or outrage cues from the media. Like, we need to be seeking the truth as much as we possibly can, and we need to pray to God for discernment in all things. All right, that's all I've got to say for today. We will see you guys back here on Monday.