Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 401 | Joy in Jail & Peace Through Persecution | Guest: Pastor James Coates

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

Today we're excited to speak with Pastor James Coates, who thankfully has been released from jail after refusing to comply with Canada's COVID-19 guidelines. Authorities in Edmonton, Alberta, demanded that Pastor Coates stop holding his church service at full capacity, but he found that to be in violation of his duty to God and the church congregation. We'll talk about what it was like for Pastor Coates in jail, the events leading up to his imprisonment, and the next steps for Grace Life Church, which now has a chain-link fence surrounding it to prevent services from being held. --- Today's Sponsor: Fast Growing Trees: Skip the big box stores and head to Fast Growing Trees dot com - the WORLD’S LARGEST ONLINE NURSERY. Whether you’re looking for shade, privacy, fruit trees, or just added color for your yard, every plant is shipped with a well-developed root system - ready to explode with new growth. Now through June 30th go to FastGrowingTrees.com/ALLIE for 15% off. --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. So today is the first day that you're listening to this of my maternity leave, 12 weeks, pre-recorded episodes, lots of interviews, lots of Q&A's, answering some of your controversial questions, a couple of hot topics like KJV-onlyism and the death penalty. All those will be coming up today. However, we are talking to Pastor James Coates of Grace Life Church in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I talked to his wife, Erin Coates, a couple weeks ago. This, you probably remember that interview. This pastor was jailed in Alberta for continuing to preach the gospel in person openly to his church and refusing to limit his congregation to the capacity that the health officials in that area were telling him that he had eliminated to. So he ended up going to jail.

while he got out of jail, thankfully, there was a lot of back and forth. There was a trial and we didn't know what was going to happen. They tried to appeal it. And during that time, there were two child sex predators that were released in the same area without conditions that Edmonton police that are probably going to recommit their crimes. And so because of that hypocrisy, because of what seemed like a dystopian persecution against a man who simply allowed people to come to his church and whatever numbers they wanted to come. They wanted to wear a mask, distance, whatever.

There was a lot of uproar in the United States about that. There was a lot of uproar everywhere about that, saying this is clear bias from the government. And yes, this is a form of persecution. No one's saying it. That is the same kind of persecution as what Christians are seen in the Middle East or seen in China. But this is absolutely something that is unjust and we need to be talking about it. And so people started talking about it. Tucker Carlson talked about it on his show. But more than that, people were praying about it. People were praying that he would be released from jail, that justice would be done. Most of all, that the gospel would be proclaimed and that God would be glorified. We talked about a couple weeks ago when we were talking about Lil Nas X and his Satan shoes about how beautiful and wonderful it is, what we see throughout scripture and history, and what we see from the story of Joseph that when, evil people intend something for wickedness, intend something for harm, God can use that for his

glory. And I think that's absolutely what we are seeing through Pastor James Coase and Grace Life Church. He's out of jail now, but the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, RCMP, and members of the Alberta Health Services, decided that they were going to put up fencing around the building so that no one's able to get in. And so Pastor Coates, Pastor James, James Coates is out of jail, but his church is basically in jail. And so they really do not want people worshiping at this church in any capacity. So that's where they are right now. And that's the predicament that they are currently in. I wanted to talk to Pastor James about how he and his congregants and he and his family are trying to navigate this as he is still striving to be a faithful

steward of the gospel and a faithful ambassador of Christ, a faithful show. of the flock that God has entrusted to him. So I wanted to talk to him about that. I wanted to talk to him about his experience in jail, which is, I'm sure, something that he never thought was going to happen. And just get some encouragement from him because all of us at some point are going to face some kind of, if not outright, that kind of persecution, certainly push back in challenges to our faith. First Timothy promises that that all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. So whether it looks like James Coates is persecution or whether it looks like something else, all of us have to prepare through the power of the Holy Spirit to be able to stand firm

and defend our faith when those challenges come. And so I'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation that I'm about to have with Pastor James Coates. Pastor James, thank you so much for joining me. You are going through a very crazy time that I thought maybe it would be over when you got released from jail, but it hasn't. Can you talk to us just kind of about what's happened over the past few weeks since you were released from jail and what it's been like for you to come home and to see how everything's continued to evolve? Well, it's been an adjustment for sure. When I first

got out, there was a little bit of reprie from what I've been calling the pressure cooker of all it's happening with our government and AHS, but about a week thereafter, everything began. And I was right back to where I started prior to my being imprisoned. And being imprisoned actually provided me some peace in all honesty from all of the attention that we've been getting from the RCMP and our government. And so it was a huge adjustment early last week to get back into the headspace and ready and prepared for the battle that I'd had a bit of a break from. And so I've been able to get a handle on what's happening in the world and how my world has changed around me and the increased attention that my life is receiving at this time. And my resolve for this battle has been renewed and strengthened.

And so I am thankful the Lord has marked me out for this purpose. Yeah, let's back up some because there, we've, you know, we talk to your wife, Aaron, and we've talked about the entire situation independently as well. But I'd like to get your perspective just kind of from the beginning, how things started to go down. There's a lot of people trying to separate fact from fiction. There are a lot of Christians who are saying, you know, this person actually deserves to be put in jail and all of that. Can you tell us, just from your perspective and everything you know, what happened from the beginning? Why did you get put in jail in the first place?

Well, Alberta Health Services is in place to ensure compliance to their health orders. And we see their health orders in conflict with the headship of Christ over his church. And so we have determined and decided to uphold his authority over the church and to submit to his terms of worship. We see the health orders as infringing on his directives and his word. And so we have been meeting in obedience to Christ and in defiance of the health orders for quite some time. And so they've employed that his AHS has employed multiple measures to try and get us to comply, all of which have failed and ultimately climaxing now with imprisoning our facility. As far as my imprisoning, disconcerned, the tool they attempted to use to bring me into compliance that resulted in my

imprisonment was an undertaking. So I was arrested on February 7th with an undertaking. In that undertaking was a condition. The condition was the same old condition that we comply with the Public Health Act and follow the health orders as it relates to our gathering. I indicated at that time that I could not agree to that condition. And so the RCMP indicated that I had refused the condition. I did not agree. I did not sign that document. And they said that nevertheless, though you have refused the condition, the condition still stands.

The following Sunday, February 14th, when I met and led that service for our congregation, I was in breach of that condition and was subsequently arrested. Now, when I was arrested the second time, I was brought before a justice of the peace. And when that was resolved, I was going to be released on the condition, again, that I comply with Alberta Health Orders as it relates to our gathering, at which point I said I could not do that. And that resulted in my imprisonment. There was a condition given to me that I would have had to agree to that in my estimation precludes me from carrying out my God giving responsibility as a pastor. And so I could not agree to that condition because I couldn't agree to that condition. And that was the condition of my release.

I was in prison for five weeks. And it was at that time that there was an agreement put in place by my lawyers in the crown that removed that condition and allowed me to leave the prison and take up my responsibilities as a shepherd. So even in that, I did plead guilty to breaching that undertone. undertaking, but that was an undertaking I never agreed to comply with, and I would break it in a heartbeat all over again. I could have potentially stayed in prison and forced the crown to drop all charges because there was a lot of pressure on the government and the crown to drop those charges, but at that point, I would be trying to do something very personal and individual, whereas the reason that I was in prison at that time

was because I was being precluded from shepherding the flock of God. And so to plead guilty to an undertaking that I breached, even though I knew I'd never agreed to comply with it in the first place, that would allow me to be a free man and shepherd the flock, it was an easy decision for me. Right. And what do you say to the people who said, you know what?

There are other churches who figured out how to run their church and comply with the, restrictions. When people say you could have spread out your, you could have spread out your services more to be able to comply with that 15% capacity limit. There are things that you could have done to make sure that you are still, you know, shepherding your church and complying with the government. What's your response to those kinds of retorts? Well, so we are permitted to have 96 people or 92 people in our facility at one given time based on the current orders that are in place, that would require us pre-imprisonment to have at least four, if not five, services

to make sure that all the folks in our church can attend. Furthermore, AHS does not permit socializing fellowship. And so basically people would come in, partake of the service, and leave, just like they would a hockey game or a basketball game. And that's not the church. The church is not a spectator sport. And so we would have to divide up our body, have people coming in and cycling out while a new group comes in and comes out. There wouldn't be any one another in taking place. And all of that fundamentally would inhibit the means of grace that are employed in the corporate gathering to the building up of the body of Christ. And COVID-19 doesn't warrant those measures.

It's not a virus severe enough to fundamentally alter the way that we gather as a local church. And furthermore, Jesus Christ is the head of the church, not the premier, not the chief medical officer of health, the Lord Jesus Christ. And so we have a responsibility of upholding the Word of God and letting the Word of God govern our gathering. And you also made it possible for people who maybe they were high risk or maybe they lived with people who were especially vulnerable, for which. you know, for whom this virus was very serious.

You also kind of gave those people space where they could attend or they could watch online. People were free to social distance if they wanted to or wear masks if they wanted to. Correct. Your really your thing was that you wanted people to be able to be free to make those decisions. And everyone who wanted to be able to access church in person, you wanted them to be able to do that as easily as possible, correct? Yeah, my responsibility as a shepherd, our responsibility as shepherds is to open our doors and permit the people of God to worship. We never compelled anyone to come. We did provide a place in our facility that would warrant social distancing and provide additional measures and protections

against the virus for those who were looking for that. But at the end of the day, our job is to open our doors and welcome the people of God to worship. And so they weren't compelled. They were they're on their own volition. Our people are incredibly intelligent. They're bright. They're healthy. They're happy. They are mature spiritually. And it's not for me to make a decision about who can come and who can't. And furthermore, it's the Lord's Church. It's not even my church. So for me to decide unilaterally, or for us as a leadership to decide unilaterally, that we're going to fundamentally alter the conditions of worship because the government has told us to, or because we think this virus is severe enough to warrant that, we're actually usurping the authority of Christ over his church.

And so, you know, and then furthermore, I think when you look at where we are today, if Christians believe, at least here in Alberta and Canada, that at some point in time, we're going to be permitted to gather as the full body of Christ, I think they're delusional. I mean, we are over a year into this so-called pandemic. And enforcement is increasing. I mean, I've been to jail. Our church is now in jail. And so I can understand that maybe, you know, in the first month or two.

But now we have the information that the data is in. And we understand that this virus is not the threat that they have made it out to be. In fact, the biggest threat to at least Alberta and Canada. I can't speak for the U.S. Is the government lockdowns? It's Alberta health services. That is the biggest threat to Albertans at present. And so we just cannot comply with this lie that's being perpetrated on our country.

And Pastor James, did they try to justify their restrictions of your church and your imprisonment? buy any data, like you're talking about that this really doesn't correlate to the reality of the threat of COVID. Did they cite that, hey, you know, we've seen an outbreak that had started at your church or we're actually seeing a rise in cases because your church is meeting together. Did they even try to predicated on that kind of so-called science? No, no. I mean, all of this is predicated on the theory. and suspect and selective science that has been being used the entire time. I mean, everything that is in place right now to mitigate the spread of the virus is intensely

theoretical. And when you interact with really solid doctors who actually know what they're talking about, they're able to demonstrate very clearly that the approach to handling this pandemic is misguided at best. And so there's nothing to support the measures that have been taken against our church. In fact, information's rolling in that there are mosques in our province that are packed. And they are not getting the attention that we're getting. And so now we're beginning to see that we are being singled out.

And I would say this, that locking up our facility is an embarrassment as it is for our province. But they had to weigh, what's the bigger embarrassment? And so for us to be able to meet for 37 Sundays in a row and not even have a single case of COVID-19 and certainly not an outbreak, they had to lock up our facility to end the embarrassment of proving that their lockdown measures are unjust, they're harmful and they're unnecessary. It is safe to meet and gather. And so 99.7% of those who contract this virus are going to fully recover. And so we have just exposed that what is happening in our nation is totally unnecessary and life can go back to normal. And the health care system is not going to be stressed. Everything is going to be okay.

And the only way that we're going to be able to get back to normal in our country is if our people begin to return to life as normal. Take off the mask, open your businesses, and return to life as normal. And you can see that. People are not afraid. You go to Costco. They're not afraid. They're not socially distanced. You know, they got the mask on, but, but, but people are not afraid anymore.

And we just got to, you know, take that next step, throw off the mask and return to life as normal. And, you know, it's actually interesting. There was a study that I saw just the other day where I was surprised, but a media outlet here in the U.S. said that some of the states with stricter lockdowns are actually seeing a worse caseload, a higher caseload than some of the states without restrictions. And it seems that it's probably because, like you said, even in places where there are hefty restrictions, people are still meeting. But what they're doing is that they're meeting in closed spaces. So rather than, you know, like where I am, we can go outside without masks.

We can spread out. We can go to the park. We can go to church. And still, if we want to distance and things like that, people in states with actually stricter regulations are seeing more of a spread because they're still meeting together. but they're just meeting together in close quarters. They're meeting together in living rooms. They're meeting together in secret. And so actually, if you cared about the spread of the virus and you cared about lowering your

caseload, you would give people the freedom to be able to, you know, like you said, fellowship in a way that's unrestricted to where they don't feel like they have to be confined to their tiny living room and actually spread a virus. So that's an interesting point that you make. I am also just wondering kind of what your reaction was, what your emotions were when you realized you were actually going to jail. I mean, I'm sure that you thought that that would be something that would never happen. Well, I would say this, that I settled that I would need to go to jail well before that moment.

We met in January in defiance of a court order. We could be held in contempt of court for that. One of the penalties for contempt of court is up to two years in prison. And so I had to stare down the barrel of that consequence well before the moment that I had at that RCMP office. So I had settled my willingness to go to jail for the headship of Christ over his church. And I remember listening to a town hall phone call with Jason Kenney, our premier and Dina Hinshaw, our chief medical officer of health. And when it was all said and done, my words to myself where I'm going to jail, I am so from another planet. I am so far in a different direction from where our government is and where it seems a lot of quote unquote faith leaders.

And by the way, I am not a faith leader. I'm an ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ. I don't even know what a faith leader is, but that's a separate issue altogether. there. So anyway, when it came time to settle that, no, I cannot sign that condition, that was the easy part. I mean, that I had already settled that. I was well prepared from my lawyers to know what to expect in that particular moment. But it was the, it was hard for sure in the aftermath of that moment, which was literally just a few moments from that moment, where I began to digest the reality that I would, I would be going to jail.

And I was on the phone with my lawyer initially and was just weeping. And he encouraged me and prayed for me. And so I could call my family and share with them the reality that I'd be going to jail. And so I could do that with a measure of courage. Even the next morning, it was very difficult because as the RCMP transferred me from the RCMP headquarters to the courthouse for a brief hearing, hearing, they shackled me. I was in cuffs and ankle stocks, which is bizarre because you would only do that for a flight risk. I had turned myself into the RCMP. I was free to go if I would just agree to the condition. I obviously was not a flight risk. And so that was ill-advised on the part

of that RCMP officer. And so when I returned to the headquarters following that hearing and spoke to my wife, that was a difficult moment as well. And so you, what I experienced emotionally, in terms of embracing the reality of going to jail initially was everything that you would expect to experience. And, and so those, those first couple of days were definitely difficult. It was easier to get into prison and be in prison and begin to adjust to the life and culture of prison. But the, the process of going to prison was, was definitely. uncomfortable. Oh, I can hardly imagine. And I just remember speaking to your wife as well. And she was telling me, of course, her strength in the Lord, but also the emotional turmoil that she at times felt. And my heart

just breaks thinking about the human element of that, just being separated from your wife and your family. I can't imagine how difficult that was and how surreal and dystopian it felt. When you were in prison, I'm sure you, you know, you had time to adjust, but I imagine that that was also a very difficult transition as well. Can you tell us what it was like in the cell and what was your life like on a daily basis? Yeah, initially it was surreal because in the cell that you're in, you've got access to four radio stations. And one of those radio stations is talk radio that does a news loop every half an hour. And so initially, I was just in that news loop over and over. over and over again. We had the radio on even that first night as we slapped myself and my cellmate.

And he was later removed from myself because I became, I was under administrative watch because of all the media attention. So they wanted to kind of protect me from anyone that would do me harm. And so he was removed rather early on quarantine. But on that first night, we had the radio on and I was kind of in and out of sleep. And I was waking up and hearing myself with sermon excerpts on this radio station, which was just, you know, incredibly surreal. But yeah, I mean, it was a, it was a challenge. I mean, there were things about being in jail at that time that made the adjustment maybe somewhat easier. I wasn't quarantined. So I wasn't interacting a lot with the other inmates. And so initially, that was maybe a bit of a grace to give me a chance to ease in to prison life and culture. My

my cellmate was sleeping a lot in in in in in in those first few days before being removed from my cell so there wasn't even a ton of interaction with him although I did I did share with him the gospel and and you're just trying to learn the culture I mean um you're a total newbie and and so the guards you're you're interaction with the guards you know you're you're trying to understand the schedule of of when breakfast is when lunches and and when do you when you get your trays when you give them back again. I mean, there was all kinds of stuff going on. So it was, it was an adjustment. And that helped too, because for the first week or so, you're just trying to figure everything out. And that kind of distracts you a little bit from the reality of where you are.

It's hard to get back into my head stays from that. It seems like a long time ago already. But it was, it was an adjustment for sure. Yeah. And were there moments when you just felt like, like you just wanted to despair? Like how the heck can this be happening to me? And is this ever going to end? Yeah, I think there were in a day in prison, you can have, it's kind of a roller coaster ride. You can have moments that are just intense joy

and then you can have moments of deep despair. And so it's quite a volatile situation. You've got a lot of time to yourself. I would get encouragement from my wife in terms of what was happening on the outside. At the same time, I'd be listening to the radio and talk radio and hearing that I'm being sort of painted as a white supremacist and all this kind of stuff. And so that was disheartening. There was a point where I had to turn the radio off and just ignore that.

Yeah, it was difficult. I mean, I... Now, where did those accusations come from? I mean, just I guess just the usual suspects that just call anyone a racist who they don't agree with. But why were you being painted as some kind of white supremacist villain? So there were rallies taking place. And one took place at the legislature in Edmonton. And apparently there were individuals who attended that rally with tiki torches.

Now, I'd never even heard of a tiki torch. I don't even know if I could identify what a tiki torch is. I don't know what it represents. I'm in the dark on all of that. But the way the radio was reporting on that, they were saying, Tiki torches were present at this lockdown, and these torches are connected to white supremacy, and they were doing it in a way that subtly implied

that I was a white supremacist. And so all of that was disconcerting. I still don't really know what a Tiki Torchie. is I am not a white supremacist. I grew up in an incredibly multicultural area. And my friends, if I could show you a wedding picture of my crew growing up, we are an incredibly multicultural group. So that narrative is just ridiculous. Yeah. Well, you certainly don't have to defend yourself of that here. We're very familiar with those kinds of tactics, unfortunately, in particular for for Christians and for conservative Christians.

Can you talk about what's happening now? You've mentioned, and we talked about at the top of this episode, that your church is now in jail. They put a fence around it. What's the deal with that? And how are you all navigating around that craziness? Well, I think right now for us, the focus is just determining how we're going to worship the Lord this coming Sunday.

And so we're working on that primarily. We realize there's all kinds of attention that our facility is getting right now, and protesters are there and are going to be there. And so it's going to be sort of ground zero for a lot of freedom fighters. And we're not freedom fighters. We're ultimately standing up for the headship of Christ over his church. And it's giving us a platform to be sure to inform the people of Alberta that they don't need to be afraid of the virus and to,

and to encourage them to return to life as normal, but we aren't fundamentally protesters. We're not political revolutionaries. We're gospel preachers. And our primary responsibility is to proclaim the good news of Christ to reconcile sinners to God through his son. And so as far as what we're up to you right now, we're just trying to do ministry, just trying to shepherd the flock, care for our people, love our people, and figure out how we're going to worship the are together. Yeah. Wow. I can't imagine just the difficulties that you guys are trying to, that you're trying to get through right now. Is there any fear for you that you could be re-imprisoned? Is that a possibility? It's highly unlikely at this point in time. I mean, even the approach they took

with me was a bit outside the box and it's not an approach they've taken with anyone else since then. I think it backfired. I think they, they miscalculated that they were dealing with a man of principle and conviction. And so they assumed that if there was going to be a condition, that I would sign the condition. And that was a miscalculation. I think even them imprisoning our facility at this point in time is another miscalculation because I think that's going to backfire as well. It's just going to wait people up. And it's going to help Albertans to rally to call on our government to stand down and remove these lockdown measures. And so, yeah, it's a crazy time.

I think I may have lost the original question and all that. Oh, that's okay. No, you definitely answered it. I do hope it's an opportunity for people to see kind of what's really going on. Like you mentioned, there are other motivations that are behind all of this that really have nothing to do with protection. especially when you see just the biased treatment of your church and of Christians who are proclaiming the gospel.

A lot of people, I think this was, yeah, this was while you were still in jail. One story that people were so incensed about that we talked about on this podcast was that there were at least two convicted child sex predators that were released from jail in Edmonton on no conditions. Edmonton police, they said they could do nothing about it. And they said, look, we actually think that. that these child's ex-preditors are going to recommit another crime. They're going to have victims.

And this was while you were locked in jail. So I also wonder if that, I kind of think for a lot of people, and I don't know, maybe your wife also told you this, but at least for a lot of people in the United States, like that tipped people over the edge because there were definitely people on this side, are people. And you've, I'm sure heard them being like, oh, this is just, he's just trying to be a martyr. He's just trying to be a celebrity. all of that crazy stuff and those accusations that even professing Christians are making.

When they saw that, when they saw the hypocrisy of the government that you're dealing with, that, okay, this is not just a, this is not for protection. This is obviously not for safety of the community. This really does seem like persecution and like bias. I think that, those stories for people is kind of what woke people up and shook them into realizing, okay, like this is a pointed, a targeted attack on the church. Yeah, we stood the tallest. I preached a sermon on December 20th that, you know, got media press and went viral.

And so our church was absolutely standing the tallest. That's why we've gotten, I think the attention that we have, the assumption is that if they can take out us, then that will sort of take out the rest, as it were. And so there's no question. We have been public enemy number one for AHS and for our government. And I guess that's a compliment in some respects because obviously we are shining the brightest. And that's a joy to be in this dark world and shine our lights so brightly to put our city on a hill and let that city shine as a real blessing. And yeah, so I mean, you know, it's it's, I understand.

that people are going to go, well, he's just trying to make a name for himself or whatever the case is. And I don't think I could care much less about that at the end of the day. My desire is to be faithful. I'm going to stand before Christ and give an account of my life to him. And I just want to be faithful. I want to go into that moment with a clear conscience. I want to do what it is that he's called me to do. And so I'm not, I don't relish all that's going on right now.

I would rather our church be able to gather on Sundays in our facility and do so peacefully. I'd rather live a tranquil and quiet life than go through all of this. At the same time, I can't say that now that we're in it and now that it's happening, I love the glory of Christ. And insofar as this gives me an opportunity to glorify him, that is why I'm alive. I'm alive to see people saved and sanctified. And this has had a huge impact. I mean, so many people have come to Christ through this.

It's amazing. And then even the spiritual growth in our own church, let alone beyond, that has resulted from the stand that we have taken as a church is phenomenal. And so I'm just so blessed to be able to see that come to fruition. I wish you could come to fruition under different circumstances, but I realize that this is how the Lord oftentimes works. And so it's amazing. that the whole world is watching grace like church right now.

And I just want us to glorify him and that we would have his smile upon our church and that he would use us to further the gospel around this world. That is an immense privilege and honor. Absolutely. And I think that's such good encouragement for us to end on. We always talk about how when God is doing one thing, he's doing a million things. and the things that he's doing aren't necessarily the things that are making headlines or trending on Twitter or what everyone's talking about.

But God doesn't need a media headliner, a good PR and marketing team in order for him to bring glory to himself, in order for him to spread the gospel. What you're not hearing about is exactly what you're talking about from the news that churches who have stood tall in this, who have said, look, we're going to let the people come who want to come. We are going to keep our doors open to people who want to hear the gospel. who God is calling. Those churches have seen a huge surge in membership. They've seen a huge surge in attendance. There are people in all of this craziness who are looking for a firm place to

place their feet. They're looking for that firm foundation. They're looking for clarity in the midst of chaos, for refuge in the midst of everything that's going on. And they're finding that in the churches that are saying, look, like you said, we are under the authority of Christ. And so we follow the dictates of Christ, and we are going to keep our doors open for whoever wants to come. So I'm thankful for that. I'm encouraged by your witness. I'm encouraged by the strength the Lord has given you and your wife, by the way.

That episode was very encouraging to so many people. It actually changed a lot of people's perspective on things who maybe didn't have all the information. So I just want to say thank you. Thank the Lord for working through you both. I'm very glad, though, that you're out of jail. and we will of course keep watching and keep seeing everything that's going on up there. And we will, this audience I know will continue to pray for you guys.

Yeah, Ali, thank you so much to your listeners. I just want to thank them for the support and the prayers. And so many people have written to me from all over the world. And I'm just so thankful for that. And maybe if I could just say this, there's some bad news. There's some bad, the bad news is this, that all of us have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God and that God is holy, and that if we're going to stand before him in his presence, we're going to need to have a perfect righteousness, which none of us have on our own.

And so God, the Father, sent his son to be our representative head and to live the life that we couldn't, then die the death that we deserve. And he did upon that cross, he suffered under the wrath of God for all that would ever believe on his name. He died and he rose again and is now seated at the right hand of God. And if you would turn from your sin and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, you will be saved and you will be given a new heart and you will be given new life in him. And you will live for his honor and his glory knowing that even if you should die,

you will rise again and dwell with him in the new heavens and new earth. And so I would encourage you that if you do not know Christ, that you would turn from your sin and look to him as the only sufficient payment for your sin and be reconciled by God through him. Yes, and amen. Thank you so much, Pastor James. Thank you for ending on that, for sharing that with us. I really appreciate it, and I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us.

Thanks, Sally. I appreciate you, too.