Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 416 | Once Saved, Always Saved? | Q&A

Episode Date: May 6, 2021

We'll be addressing the theological idea of "once saved, always saved," as well as the differences between Mormons and Christians in today's Q&A episode. --- Today's Sponsors: Patriot Mobile has plans to fit any budget & great multi-line discounts. Veterans & first responders save even more, so make the switch today! Visit PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE to get your discount & a free starter kit. Gabi Insurance literally stands for "Get a Better Insurance!" Put your home & auto policy to the test - it's free to check & there's no obligation. Go to Gabi.com/RELATABLE! --- Past Episodes Mentioned: Ep 132: Predestination https://apple.co/33kmenC Ep 143: TULIP https://apple.co/3b6dBBk --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey guys, welcome to Relatable, another maternity Q&A episode. Today we'll be talking about once saved, always saved. We'll also be talking about some doctrinal theological differences in Mormonism and Christianity. And that is something that you guys have been asking me about a lot. I know very hot topic, controversial topic, but we're just going to dive into it just a little bit. and then I'll answer a couple more of your questions if we've got time. All right. Well, first question someone asked me, which I just thought was crazy because I've

been eating these a lot recently. Someone asked me fig Newtons or strawberry Newtons. Do I think that that, do I think which one is better? That is, I very rarely eat fig Newton's, but recently I have. So I'm like, how does this person on Instagram who asked me this question know that? honestly probably the strawberry flavor i forget which brand it is that we got from whole foods but it's really good and it's like a really good um sweet to eat if you don't want to eat you know like full on chocolate or candy or something like that same with my belt bars but also

if i want something a little bit different like a fig newton then i really like strawberry newton so very random that you asked me that and very random that you seemingly know that i eat newtons did i do that on instagram? or something. I don't know. But yeah, strawberry flavor is really, really good. You can probably, you know, search for it at Whole Foods if you're looking next time and you're in the mood for a Figg Newton. Okay. Now a much more substantive question and answer. Once saved, always saved, is this biblical? So let me start by saying that there are sincere Bible-believing Christians who we will see each other in heaven who do not believe in once.

saved always saved. I believe in what saved always saved, but there are many Christians that I respect, theologians that I respect, who know a lot about the Bible and love the Lord with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength who do not believe this. So this is one of those theological differences that we don't see, most people don't see as primary, but see rather as kind of secondary or tertiary. And now that could be debated. Some people might say, no, that is a misunderstanding of the gospel, that's a misunderstanding of salvation in general, and that's just kind of a deal breaker. There could be some people who say that. I don't think so. I don't think that's a denial of the gospel in any way to say that you can, well, it's debatable.

Now that I'm thinking about it, it's, I understand people's perspective on that, but I don't think it's a denial of the gospel to say that once saved, always saved is not biblical. because I know a lot of sincere Christians who do believe that and they have the scripture to back it up. I just disagree with their interpretation of that scripture. But I could see how someone would say, well, actually, that's just a misunderstanding, not just of salvation, but of Jesus Christ in general and how he saved us. And so maybe some people argue that that actually is a fundamental denial of the gospel. But I don't think so. I think there are a lot of in good faith Christians and faithful Christians who disagree on the subject.

However, I see the most support in scripture for the idea that, yes, once you are truly saved, you are always saved. Romans 8, I think, is probably the strongest case to make for this. Just reading verse 30 alone. And those he predestined, God predestined, he also called. Those whom he called, he also justified. Those he justified, he also glorified to the chapter goes on to say that nothing can separate us from the love of God. no charge can be brought against God's elect. That word elect is used several times in the New Testament, referring to everyone who is saved in Christ. Ephesians 1, 4 through 5 in verse 11 speak to this concept as well,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love, he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will. in him we have obtained an inheritance having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will so god chooses uh through his uh divine will and sovereignty whom will be saved i understand a lot of people are very um they don't like that They don't like that assertion that God actually does the choosing.

But scripture says that over and over again. Now, that doesn't mean that there is no human responsibility. There's this idea, this theological idea called concurrence, where we believe that simultaneously God holds men accountable for their real decisions, their real consequences to your actions. and God is absolutely just in allowing those consequences, both temporal and eternal, to play out, even as he is solely and wholly in charge of absolutely everything. As Job 42 says, his will, there's nothing that can thwart his will.

Matthew 10 says, not even a sparrow falls out of the sky apart from your father's will. And so if not even a sparrow, which is sold for, two or sold for a penny, falls from the sky, apart from your father's will, then surely salvation is not outside of the father's will. Now, if you're asking, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's unfair, that's unjust. A lot of people also thought that. In Rome, apparently, when Paul wrote to the Romans, for example, in Romans 9, he talks about this, that this is a very difficult concept to believe that God is choosing who he is going to show mercy to, and God is choosing who he is not going to.

going to show mercy to. And yet in that chapter, I would say Romans 9 through 11, basically the conclusion is that God does what he wants to do. And if God is omnipotent, if God is, which means all powerful, if he is omniscient, that means he is all knowing and he is all just and he is all good, then that means that he is in charge of everything. And he is not unjust to choose some and not others. And there's really just no escaping that biblically. I wish there were because it's a very difficult concept for me to wrap my mind around. I know, I've got a lot of friends who are not Calvinist. I've got a lot of friends who do not believe that, who are faithful, sincere, wonderful Christians. I've had them on this podcast before. And so I know there are other doctrinal positions when it comes to that.

but talking about that is actually very important to answering this question of once saved, always saved, because if God is in charge of our salvation, which I think also Ephesians 2 makes very clear that it is not our own doing, that we are saved by grace through faith, that it is a gift, that it has nothing to do with our own efforts. If that is true, if God is solely responsible for our salvation and even the repentance that we do, even the turning to him that we do is inspired by His Holy Spirit is pushed by him, then it's very hard to make the case that we can lose that salvation, that we had nothing to do with obtaining in the first place, if that makes sense.

If God gets all of the glory and all of the credit for our salvation, if all we're contributing to our salvation is, as the saying goes, the sin that makes it necessary, then we are secure. because we can't lose something that we did not obtain through our own efforts in the first place. If God secured it, he doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't say, whoops, that was an accident, saved you. But sorry, you disappointed me. I'm going to let you go.

If he knows everything and he's in charge of everything and he has chosen us in him, as Ephesians 1 says, before the foundation of the world, then we can rest in the assurance that that salvation is secure, that that salvation is sure. Now, I've done a whole episode. I'll link to it in the description called predestination. Also, I've talked about Tulip before. And so I've done full episodes on those. People ask me about that a lot,

but I've talked about these subjects very thoroughly in the past. And so I'll make sure to link to those past episodes in the description to this podcast. And so you can listen more thoroughly. but if again, if God is in charge of our salvation, which I think the Bible is very clear on that he chose us in him before we even did anything. Again, Romans 9 also reiterates that concept. So I would read those passages before you come at me with your anger. A lot of people get very angry when I talked about predestination, which I understand. I did too. The first time I learned about it in sixth grade, I was very angry about it. I also said that's unfair. But there are

plenty of things that the human mind thinks is unfair that are actually just according to God who created justice and who created mercy. Really, the fair thing would be for all of us to be separated from God and under his wrath forever. The unfair thing, the gracious thing is that he saves any of us at all. A lot of people ask me when they're hearing about this, okay, well, how do I know that I was saved? It stresses me out to think about the election and choosing and thinking all and thinking about, you know, God calling us his chosen ones, which he absolutely does. How do I know? Well, in the same way that you knew before you even thought about this concept of predestination

and choosing. Galatians 5 talks about the fruit of the spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. We are bearing fruit of repentance in our lives, the conviction that you feel about sin is evidence of the Holy Spirit in your life. Your love of God. You're compelling that you feel to love other people. All of this is evidence of God in your life.

Any desire that you have to follow him is not something that you can take credit for, but is actually a working of the Holy Spirit in your life. As the Book of Philippian says, we are to work our salvation out with fear and trembling. And that sounds like it's our responsibility. but the verse follows up and says, it is God who works in you both to will and to work for his good pleasure. So this working of justification and sanctification, God gets to take credit for all of it.

And I think our human propensity is to say, well, it's actually more comfortable for me. If I feel like I have some control over this, I have some control over my salvation. But actually, that makes it a lot more vulnerable. Like that makes me a lot more stressed out. If I think that I have to work to maintain my salvation, I am somewhat in charge of it. I have some authority over my eternal destination. Well, I'm like, I'm a failure. I'm a sinner. I am going to constantly trip and fall. But if I know that God has promised that he's going to catch me, that my salvation is secure, not because of anything I bring to the table, but because of what he has done. Like, if I see,

the evidence, not perfectly, of course, but if I see the evidence of the Holy Spirit in my life, hopefully increasingly over time, then I can trust that God has saved me and that I don't get to take any credit for that. And yes and amen, I don't want to bear the responsibility for that. Because if that's the case, I'm going to mess it up over and over again, but the God who doesn't mess up promises that he has me, that there's going to be nothing that can separate me from him and vice versa. I can't mess it up. I can't make him change his mind.

I can't somehow step out of his good graces because his good graces are not applied to me again because of what I have done, but because of what Christ has done on my behalf and because Christ is perfect and he has promised to stand in intercession for me, I can trust that salvation is sure. First John 2 through 18 says, children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, so now many Antichrist have come. So that just means people who are against Christ, false teachers, people who are not believers, therefore we know that it is the last hour.

They went out from us, but they were not of us. If they had been of us, they would have continued with us, but they went out that it might become plain that they all are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One. Again, you have been chosen, anointed by the Holy One, and you have all knowledge, or you all have knowledge, actually. And so I think it's important for us to know that there will be people who claim to be Christians that maybe even God used to glorify himself through, who once claimed to believe the

gospel, who will then reject the faith. And I think that the Bible is clear. Now, again, there's disagreement on this, that that person was never really saved in the first place. They were never really Christians. They talked the talk. Maybe it looked like they were walking the walk. They were having a spiritual experience. And God decided to use them maybe in some way, like I think about particular authors who they wrote books that maybe you really benefited from or you learned something from. And then they come out several years later and become what they call an ex-vangelical or they deconstructed their faith to the point of basically being an agnostic, which is always

the end of that endeavor. And you wonder, okay, hang on, because they seemed really genuine and they seemed really sincere. how did this happen that they now were denouncing their faith? Well, I think 1st John, too, speaks to that. I think that we can safely say that it's not that God chose them and saved them and then they messed up too much and God let them go. But rather that they had some sort of spiritual experience and they were able to kind

of repeat the talking points of biblical Christianity, but their hearts actually weren't regenerated by the Holy Spirit. I just don't think that human beings have enough power in and of ourselves to be able to do that and to determine those things. And actually, actually, that's such a reason to rejoice that I don't have to take responsibility for that. I can't take credit for that. I just get to completely and totally rejoice in the Lord. Salvation is not one of those things, by the way, where you're constantly wondering for the rest of your life, if you made it into, of the elect. If you love God, if you are pursuing God, if you have those convictions from the Holy Spirit, then you can rest assured. You don't have to worry. You don't have to worry about it.

And I think it's that assurance and it's that confidence that the reality of once saved, always saved, of Romans 8, that he, those he predestined, he also called, those he called, he also justified, those he justified. He also glorified. It's that assurance that gives us every reason to worship and to rejoice. All right, that's going to be controversial. Let's talk about another controversial topic. A lot of people have asked me, hey, can you draw the distinctions between Mormonism or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

I believe that's the whole church title and what you believe to be Christianity. And even saying that there is a distinction or there is any way to distinguish between the two is very controversial. Listen, I've got a lot of people who are Mormons or who call themselves LDS who follow me. You follow me on Instagram. Maybe you're listening to this podcast right now. And we have a lot in common. Typically, people who are in the Mormon church are conservative.

We do have a lot of the same views. And we have what sounds like a lot of the same theological views, a lot of the same doctrinal views. And you have probably noticed that there are quite a few influencers and maybe some people that you know in your life who, who are very much striving to say that Mormonism is simply a denomination of Christianity, that we need to kind of put aside our differences, that they're kind of secondary or tertiary differences, and that they're not gospel differences, that essentially people who are Mormons believe in the same gospel. You might have also noticed that there is a hard push against the word Mormon. This didn't always use to be the case. This has been a change in the

Mormon church that they want to be referred to as the Church of Jesus Christ or a latter day saint rather than a Mormon. And again, this is a desire to kind of blur any distinctions between what is Orthodox Christianity and Mormonism. And we could talk about at length about the differences between Mormonism and between Orthodox Christianity. This could be an entire series of podcasts comparing the text. but I think the two biggest things, as I have been studying this, and as I have talked to a lot of you who identify as Mormons, I think the biggest thing are the contradictory ideas of God. And so according to Mormonism or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,

according to Mormon Doctrine, page 321, and teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, page 345, God is an exalted man who actually kind of earned his, his position through good works. And so he is not what Christians view God as. The Bible, the Word of God, which we don't believe is on par with any other kind of compilation of so-called scripture or doctrines. We believe that it is the only inherent scripture says that God has been from the beginning. He has been God from the beginning.

He was never a man. We're not talking about Emmanuel or incarnation that God made flesh, but God the Father was never a man. He was there from the beginning. The Trinity was there from the beginning. Revelation 1-8, I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and was and who is to come the Almighty. This is reiterated throughout Scripture. So he is the beginning and the end. before him there was no other. He did not elevate himself to the place of God. He has always been

God. He has been in his position of creator and sustainer and ruler of the universe from eternity past, a concept that we as humans as finite beings can't even comprehend because we are limited by time and space, but God is not. He pre-exist the universe. He pre-exist time and space, and he has all always been God. He did not earn his position according to Christianity of being God. He did not elevate himself to that position. He always has been God according to Orthodox Christianity. And that is who he is. God was never a man. Numbers 2319. God is not man that he should lie or a son of man that he should change his mind. Has he said and will he not do it or has he spoken and will he not fulfill it? I also encourage you to read Job 38 through 42.

and see who God is and where he has been for all of time and even before that. Mormonism believes, and I think this is probably one of the biggest, if not the biggest distinction between Mormonism and Orthodox Christianity. They believe that Jesus was a God, but not God himself. And this is the conversation that I've had with a lot of you who identify as Mormons. It is absolutely essential to the Christian faith. It's the crux of the Christian faith that Jesus is God and that he is also his only begotten son who became flesh.

And so I know that Mormons believe that Jesus was a son of God, but Christians believe that Jesus is God. And this is necessary for believing in and understanding the sacrifice that Jesus made on our behalf. John 1 is very clear about this that Jesus is God. If you talk to a Mormon, they'll say that the King James version of the Bible and all of the Mormon doctrines are completely in line with one another and that there is no contradiction. But again, if you look at, for example, Mormon doctrine page 547, Articles of Faith, page 35, teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, page 372. And then you compare that to John 1, whether you do King James version or whether you do the ESV, you will see a contradicting.

there about who Jesus was. And again, that is the crux of the Christian faith. So, John 1, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only son from the Father, full of grace and truth. For the law was given through Moses, grace, and truth came through Jesus Christ. So cannot get any more specific.

You could read it as in the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. He was in the beginning with God and all things were made through Jesus. And without Jesus was not anything made that was made. And Jesus was life, and the life was the light of men. The light, Jesus shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. And Jesus became flesh and dwelt among us. And we have seen Jesus' glory. Glory is the only son from the Father full of grace and truth.

Grace and truth came through this Jesus Christ. So Jesus is God without the belief that Jesus is God or the belief that God elevated himself to the place of God or that Jesus was just a God and not God, that denial of the belief in the Trinity, that denial of the belief in Jesus' exclusive godness is the second person, but an equal person in the Trinity, is a denial of the fundamentals of the Christian faith. And so we could get in to all the differences between Mormonism and Christianity, but the fact of the matter is is that Mormonism has a different idea of who God is, a different idea of who Jesus is, and therefore has a different understanding of what salvation is

and what the gospel is. And so it's not the same as, for example, Baptists saying that we believe in Credo baptism, which is what I believe in, that believers baptism and Presbyterians, for example, believing in Pato baptism, infant baptism. These differences are small differences. We believe in the same gospel. We believe in the same God. We believe in the same Jesus.

We believe that we're going to see each other in heaven one day. It's not the same as the difference between an Armenian, like we were talking about in the beginning, and a Calvinist, someone who believes in, you know, total depravity and limited atonement, an irresistible grace and the perseverance of the saints, one saved, always saved, and things like that. Those are also different forms of doctrine, different forms of Christianity. But we're all Orthodox Christians. We all agree on who God is. We all agree on what cell. Salvation is essentially, we all agree that Jesus is God. Outside of that, you have faiths that look like Christianity in some ways, but don't share the core tenets. And that is a core tenet of Christianity, the godship of Jesus Christ. That is essential to understanding why the propitiation, why the sacrifice that he gave us on the cross is eternal and why it covers our sin, how he became

our perfect sacrifice to understand that he is also the I am, that he has been here since the beginning, before the beginning, that he is preeminent over at all creation. As the book of Colossians also says, that is essential to Christianity in the gospel. And without that, you have something that sounds like Christianity in a lot of ways and is held by a lot of sincere, loving, wonderful, kind people,

but is not Orthodox Christianity. And so that's just one distinction of the, many distinctions, and I would say the most important distinction. All right. One more question. How important is it that you and your spouse agree politically? So I think it depends on what you disagree on. Like, does your husband believe that like abortion is fine?

Does your husband believe in socialism? Does your husband believe in, you know, some form of far leftism and you're like staunchly conservative, or is it that you just can't agree completely on tax policy? Is it just that you can't agree on the most effective policy for maintaining the security of our borders? I think it depends on how far apart you guys are when it comes to these issues. I think that as long as you share the same values and the same faith, I think most importantly, in the same biblical worldview, but you just find yourself coming to different conclusions on these particular policies, I think that can be okay. I think it's when the underneath, like the roots of what you

believe in your worldview are disparate is when things can really start to unravel and when it makes things harder than they are. That's not to say that a Republican and a Democrat can never be together and never make it work, but I do think it's so important for you to share core values because even if you share all the same values and you share the same faith and maybe you were raised the same way. Marriage is still going to be hard because you're living with, you're living with another person who has flaws and habits and hangups and, and is going to disappoint you. You're going to disappoint them and you're just going through the hardship of life together. Like that's already going to be difficult because life is difficult. Now it's worth it

and wonderful and beautiful, but it's already going to be difficult even if you agree on all the essentials. But I think going through those very hard things and going through inevitable disagreements and discussions that come with life and not agreeing on your core values and not coming from the same essential worldview, that makes it way harder. One of you is going to end up just being quiet and just being like, I think that we're going in a bad direction as a family, but I'm just not going to say anything or you're going to constantly be budding head. So I think what's more important is not that you agree on all the policies. My husband and I probably don't agree on every single political policy or every single political candidate. But we have the same worldview. So at the end of the

day, we can, if we say, hey, I think that, you know, this policy is good. And I say, I think this policy is bad. We can always walk backwards and say, well, here's why. If he says, well, I think socialism is good because there's no reason why the state shouldn't become God. And I'm like, well, hang on, God is God. the state isn't God. That would be a huge problem because we'd be coming from two totally different positions. But if our Y is the same and we just end up coming to different conclusions at the top, I think that's okay. You just have to make sure, again, that that world of view and those core values that you have

are at least very similar. It will just make things a lot smoother. So I hope that answered your question. All right, that's all I got time for today. I will see you guys back here soon. You know,