Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 445 | Canada's 'Free' Health Care Is a Myth | Guest: Lauren Chen

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

Today we're talking to Lauren Chen, a former fellow BlazeTV host who now does her show through RT. We talk about Lauren's personal experience with Canada's lackluster health care system and how her family found better service in the U.S. Also, we discuss the "body positivity" movement. Where do we draw the line between accepting people for who they are and glorifying unhealthy lifestyles? --- Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers safely delivers American craft beef & better-than-organic chicken, right to your door! You can place a one-time order or, better yet, subscribe & save 20% with each purchase. Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE to get $20 off & free express shipping. Kitty Poo Club delivers an affordable, high-quality, litter box every month that's pre-filled with the litter of your choice. Go to KittyPooClub.com/ALLIE & save 40% off your first order! Bambee was created specifically for small businesses - your dedicated HR manager is available by phone, email, or real-time chat. Go to Bambee.com/ALLIE right now to schedule your free HR audit! --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV

or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone is having a great day. Today I am talking to Lauren Chen. We're going to be talking about all sorts of things. Her experience with universal health care in Canada and a lot of the challenges that she and her family have faced. The misconception that people have about our health care system in America versus the health care systems in, say, the UK or Canada. We're also going to be talking about the body positivity movement. What is great about that?

And also what is unhealthy and toxic about that? And we'll be talking a little bit about gender stereotypes and just this idea of overcorrection of society's problems through progressivism and the dangers of that and how we really need to keep a balanced approach to the most controversial and difficult issues. So I'm so excited for you to listen to this insightful conversation. She's always got a whole lot of wisdom. So without further ado, here is Lauren Chen. Lauren, thank you so much for joining me. I want to talk to you about a bunch of things today. First, I want to get an update. We're recording this in January. This probably won't come out for a couple months. But as we're talking right now, can you give us an update about your dad and kind of

What's been happening with the health care process and the health care system? I know a lot of people in this audience have been praying for you and hoping the best for your family. So if you could just give us an update on all that. Sure. Well, first off, thank you so much for having me. And thank you so much for, you know, discussing my dad's challenges on your show because I know when we were fundraising, there were a lot of people who did come over and donate and offer their support and prayers who heard about it from you. And it means the world.

It really does. So thankfully, my dad. was able to get his operation. I think it ended up being in October. And so they removed this shockingly large and scary looking tumor. My mom did send me a picture of it. And I'm like, why? And then I shared it. So I was about to say, I think it's treated it. I think I remember seeing it. Yeah. I did. So it was very scary. We were really, really happy to just get that out of him. And so now what, you know, we're going through what so many people are going through with their cancer treatments is the screening process. So my dad is supposed to be getting every three months, I guess,

blood tests and different scans just to make sure the cancer and his liver doesn't come back. And apparently, you know, the more negative results we get, the less chance there is a bit recurring. And we've really been keeping our fingers crossed for that. The problem we have is that now we are back in Canada. And, you know, similar problem to why we went to the U.S. in the first place for treatment is trying to get that care in a timely manner. Yeah. You know, what a lot of Americans, I think, maybe don't know about Canada is that the health care system is actually provincial. So, you know, I see Americans say we need federal health care mandates like they have in Canada.

It's like, I don't think you know how Canada works if that's what you think. But anyway, unfortunately, the province I'm in Quebec is notorious for long wait times. And actually, COVID has not made things any better. It's just increased the wait times for everything. So, yeah, I mean, we've been trying to get his follow-up treatment for three months. And as of yet, we do not have an appointment. And it's really frustrating. and it's actually so bad that my parents right now are looking into ways to relocate to the U.S.

because, I mean, it's just a nightmare. And actually in Quebec, there are no private hospitals either. That was ruled too unfair by the government. So it's not even like you have the option of paying more. Right. Because like in the U.K., most people, it's almost the same thing. But I think there are also private hospitals and private health care centers in the U.K. that people can go to.

But in your area, there's not even an option. Right, there's not, and it's frustrating because Hong Kong where I've also lived, it's more of like a mixed system where if you're a citizen, you do have, like, I guess there's the universal healthcare option, but they're trying to encourage more and more people to be supplemented by private health insurance, go to private hospitals and things like that. That is not what's going on in Quebec, which is frustrating. And actually myself, I actually had a biopsy done of a skin growth that was on my scalp, and I'm sure it's fine. and I'm sure by the time people are seeing this, I'll know the answers. But it was about a year-long wait to see a dermatologist. Wow. And then once he saw me, he was like, all right, come back in four months and we'll see if it's grown.

It had. And then I had to wait another two months to actually get the biopsy done. And I'm in a position right now where I'm waiting for my results. They were supposed to come in after six weeks. It's been eight weeks, and we still don't have my results yet. Wow. So, yeah, it's just been a lot of, and I'm sure there are so many Canadians who have similar horror stories when I started talking about my dad. So many other people came forward with

their challenges. And, you know, I'm sure there are people who it's worked great for. But I think more people, you know, with the Biden administration coming in, there's going to be probably health care changes looming. I think these are stories that Americans deserve to know because it's not all rosy, you know, doctors falling out of trees and health care for everybody as, as people like Bernie Sanders sometimes make it seem. Right. So backing up just for people who don't know with your dad, he was diagnosed with cancer and then you had to wait a very long time to even have any kind of follow up, correct? And he had to come to the United States for the procedure that ended up saving him. Is that correct? That is correct. And it was a very scary time because it

was a situation where he got a scan done, just what we thought out of a abundance of caution. And he didn't actually have someone look at the scan and give him a diagnosis until around, what is it, five months later. So a scan captured the fact that he had cancer, but he wasn't able to see a specialist to look at the results until five months later. And then, you know, we were trying to get a really quick operation date. And we just, we never ended up getting one.

And we were calling hospitals. We weren't getting called back. It was just a nightmare. I've never experienced anything like it. You just feel so helpless, I'm sure. Oh, I was literally in tears. I mean, I ended up going to social media saying, like, I don't, we don't know what to do.

We know he has cancer. We know it's been growing for, you know, months and months at this time. And it's not the, it's not the kind of thing where you're like, oh, it's okay. I'll just wait. See how it turns out. No, absolutely not. Right. And so by posting a message on social media, which I'm so glad you did, tell me about

the response from people in the United States. Was that how you ultimately got connected to the person who performed the procedure for your dad? Yeah, so actually I'm not sure if you're familiar with or your audiences. I'm sure you are, but your audience is familiar with Dave. I know you've interviewed with Dave. It's a great interview. So he was actually kind enough to put me in touch with someone at the Mayo Clinic in Arizona. And they were just so competent, speedy. I remember we, I put out that message and then by like the next day, we were doing a video conference call with the people at the Mayo. And they were saying send us any results you have.

It was just amazing. And I've been teasing my dad. that he's been spoiled now with American health care, expecting to see all of these doctors in a tidely banner. But it was really amazing. And, you know, the response from Canadians was by and large, yes, I've been through this. I've lost family members. I'm still waiting to see such and such specialists.

You know, the Canadians in my audience, they understood what I was going through because so many of them or their family members are in the same position. This is not newsworthy in Canada. Oh, you're waiting for a doctor. So is everyone else. And actually it's so bad with even general practitioners. you can wait like years to see a GP just because we have a shortage.

But, you know, what was interesting to me is the response I got from a lot of American leftists was that, you know, I was being selfish trying to jump the line to get my dad care. You see this is what happens when I don't think they understood. They were trying to make it seem like universal health care was the answer to my problem. It's like, I don't think you understand the situation. Yeah, I mean, I was actually pretty taken aback how many people. out there who are like, I guess, Medicare for all advocates were attacking me, attacking my father, just because I was sharing what we were going through trying to get health care.

Right. I mean, I guess when you are so attached to an idea that it's integral to your worldview or your political perspective, you can't admit that maybe there's a problem with it and maybe it's not effective. Now, the pushback that I've sometimes seen is, okay, yes, it's really hard to get care for something like cancer or, you know, something that needs a specialist. But at least people don't have to pay out of pocket for, you know, just going to get treatment for the flu. Or some people say, well, at least I can get my diabetes treatment medication so much more cheaply. and Canada people are dying here because they're not even able to kind of treat these more,

you know, chronic diseases or more mild sicknesses. What do you, what do you say to that if you, if you know a response? Sure. Well, the first thing I like to bring up when it comes to the healthcare debate in the U.S. is that a lot of people who are on the left like to paint it as, well, the current health care system is what Republicans and people who are pro-capitalism favor and have put in place and it's their fault. That is absolutely not true. I don't know anyone on any side of the political spectrum who is completely happy with the American health care system right now. And I think Democrats have done a really good job trying to convince people that the Obamacare system, which is in place in the United States now is somehow the Republicans' fault, which is not true in any way,

shape, or form. People on the right also don't like what is happening with American health care. and they want to implement changes to make sure that people are able to get affordable health care. And, you know, as well as prescription drugs and President Trump, he's actually, I commend him for trying to tackle the issue of very high drug prices. Because right now what's happening with pharmaceutical companies is that Americans are essentially putting the bill for all of these these advancements and all this new medication that is then sold other places like Canada more cheaply. So that's really a systemic issue that I hope get solved. but it's not just a question of, oh, well, if Americans just paid less, then it would be cheap, new drugs for all. No, because there needs to be that profit incentive. And I have seen people kind of advocate for the idea of when it does come to drug companies,

kind of mandatory licensing fees for generics, where it's that if you're a drug company and you come up with this new drug that is life-saving, you won't have the ability to say, no, you can't rip it off generically. You have to grant them that license, but they need to pay royalty. So that could be, you know, something along about those lines could be a way to make sure that research is still happening, but that it's affordable for everybody. And again, I'm not, I'm not a doctor in the medical profession, but I think it's an interesting concept. And then when it comes to, I guess, more general illnesses that maybe aren't so time sensitive, if you're talking about the flu, I know so many Canadians who will not go to the doctor or the flu because they know it's going to be around a four-hour wait time in a waiting room to go see one. If you go to like a walk-in clinic, that's very, very usual.

It's the same if you go to the emergency room and there's any type of triage, you will be waiting unless it's like very, very, very serious. And if you have a GP who you want to see, depending on the GP, it could be months and months for your appointment where you're probably going to get better. So that's one thing. And the idea that, oh, well, at least it's not out-of-pocket costs. What Americans don't understand is exactly how much taxes Canadians pay. Where I live, depending on your bracket, you could be paying the most. majority of your salary to taxes between the federal and provincial rates. And, you know, a lot of people like to make it out as if Canada is cheaper to live in because, oh, we have socialized medicine

and kind of socialized higher education college. The average Canadian has more, I guess, household debt than the average American. So Canadians have a lot more financial burden on them than the average person in the United States. And, you know, it's just due to the fact that, yeah, the government taking these costs out of your your page. check at the end of every month, even the months you don't require health care or even if you don't go to college, that doesn't make things cheaper for you. Absolutely not. And you're, I mean, you're paying a lot and you're not paying for good quality care for the

vast majority of people. Like you said, I'm sure there are anecdotes from people who said, oh, it was great. I had to give this knee surgery and I wasn't charged anything in the United States. You know, I wouldn't have been able to, I wouldn't have been able to have that procedure, certainly not for free. they don't consider the downsides to it. Something I always think about that Thomas Soul says is that leftists typically judge policies or policy proposals by their stated intentions, never by their results.

And so they create kind of this false binary. Oh, you want people to die who don't get health care and you want health care to be expensive and drug prices to be basically unpayable by poor people in the United States. That's what you want. You just want to have your own private health care and for everyone. else to suffer. I want universal health care and everyone to be paid for and everyone to be happy. Like you were explaining, that's a false binary. There could be some reforms to be made in American health care. But by and large, I mean, this is the place that people go for innovative

and quick and compassionate and focused care. And people just need to realize that that profit incentive for health care, and I know that leftists don't even like those two words put together, it matters. It is what drives quality care in the United States. It's why we are the place that people go when they have situations like you and your dad. And I just, unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people realize that or think about the consequences. No, they absolutely don't. And it's the idea of something happening to the American system to make it more like the Canadian system, I think should terrify everybody. Because if you, if you are in a situation like my dad was in exactly, where do you go then? Right? Where is the fast, speedy option that you can rely on? It just, it ceases to exist. And, you know, you say profit incentive. And I think that's a very important conversation to have. And it's like the left can act as if, you know, just from the goodness of their hearts, these doctors and nurses should be providing care. But that's not how people function. Nurses and doctors deserve to be able to, you know, choose where they work and earn a comfortable living themselves. And unfortunately, for Canadians, that is. is what drives a lot of our healthcare professionals to the United States because they can, you know, they can make more money. They can have better hours working, you know, nicer hospitals and everything. And it's like not only do we have the shortage of like equipment because it's

expensive here. There's also just this shortage of health care personnel. This is, these are all very real problems. I know the NHS, the British system experiences similar ones. Really, I mean, it's all over the world that we have this, this healthcare debate going on with countries who have implemented universal systems. And I don't know why, you know, in the American context, when these leftists bring up the idea, hey, we should do this here, they act as if it's perfect everywhere else in the world when it's not. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Alley, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase. narratives and we don't offer false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. The profit margin for Medicare is already razor thin. That is why patients,

on private health care tend to pay more to make up for when you're looking at the profits of a hospital to make up for sometimes the profit losses or the razor thin margin of profits when it comes to the Medicare patients. If everyone is on, or Medicaid, if everyone is on Medicare, the profit margin gets so small that especially in rural hospitals that may not have as many patients, I mean, you're going to have to either shut down the hospital or dramatically cut your workforce and then you don't have more or better health care that way. That's what people don't understand is that without profit. There's not going to be as many people working in the hospitals.

You're not going to have that incentive for innovation when it comes to medicine, when it comes to treatment. If you think that nurses and doctors are worn out now, which I think everyone has probably been to a hospital and, you know, talks to that nurse who is on her 36th hour of her shift or that doctor who is tired, if you see that going on now, multiply them. that by 10 under a Medicare for all system. That's just naturally what's going to happen, whether we like it or not. Absolutely.

And I think what should scare people is the prospect, really, of not being in charge of your own health care treatments, something that else, something else that is very scary when it comes to these universal systems is the issue of rationing care, which absolutely does happen. I know when it comes to things like glaucoma treatments, you know, or cataract, even. they do make a judgment call depending on your age whether or not it's worth it for the state to invest in that surgery for you. Yeah. Which is terrifying.

It is terrifying. And some people might say, you know, there's already rationing here with COVID. Well, yes, maybe in some places, but that's a little bit different to have a full ICU unit. And you have to decide who gets a ventilator. That is obviously very frightening and terrible. And we don't want that to happen. but those kind of emergency and very rare situations is different than deciding who gets glaucoma treatment or who gets cancer treatment. That thankfully doesn't happen in the United States based on, okay, how many resources do we have to allocate and who is worth it and who's not?

Exactly. You don't want some bureaucrat, some administration official making the judgment call, okay, well, we could spend these resources to save this person's life, but you know what? They're already 67. And they're probably not going to be paying into the system anymore. in fact, they're just collecting a pension. So do we take these resources and spend them on this person or this other person who is, hey, maybe only 30 and has a lot more to give back to the system? These are conversations that I don't think are moral to be having. And, you know, the left can claim the high ground when it comes to these types of health care systems. But I just, I'm sorry as someone who's actually been through it and almost lost a family member to it. I don't see this is the more compassionate answer.

Yeah. And you also worry, it's not just dollar signs that these bureaucrats making these decisions are. are looking at. You also worry, especially in the United States, where does someone's politics? Where do they come in? And you've already kind of seen leftists on Twitter, blue check mark saying, you know, if someone was anti-mask or something, or if someone was a Republican who decided that we should open up, they shouldn't get medical treatment, you worry about that too. Are people's political affiliations going to play into whether or not they're seen as valuable are worth saving by the people in these universal health care systems that are deciding who gets

treatment and who doesn't. What else is the decision maker's intersectionality and critical race theory going to play into those decisions of who gets to live and who gets to die? I mean, it's really frightening, especially when you think about all of the identity politics and the polarization that goes on in the United States when you're talking about who gets medical treatment based on those standards. I mean, that's a lot. scary. That's something that people need to think about before saying, yes, universal health care is compassionate. Oh, absolutely. And this is actually something we've seen before in the UK. A lot of hospitals or even just anywhere where you get service, they'll have signs that say no violence,

no service and things like that. But in the UK, we've actually seen like the definition of violence be expanded to include things like homophobia or Islamophobia or things like that. So in the UK, it actually is the case. You know, it's probably not going to be exercised if it's a actual life-ridden condition. But if let's say you have a sprained ankle or broken arm or something and for some reason the doctor perceives you as being some sort of bigot, whatever it may be, they will actually have the right to deny you care. But in a sacred system, you don't necessarily have the option of going other places. So this is happening. This is something that needs to be talked about. And I hope that people, especially in Canada, or people who have lived abroad and have experiences

with these systems that they kind of speak up because unfortunately, you know, we do hear a lot about people who can afford treatment in the U.S. and I think there needs to be reforms to ensure that care is affordable and timely and et cetera, et cetera. American health care is not perfect, of course. But the people who've had these experiences outside the U.S., we need to be equally vocal because right now there's this imbalance in the media making it seem as if in the United States people are dying on the side of the road, whereas, you know, everywhere else, it's just you walk into a clinic, get as much health care as you want.

And look, once you get there, once you get to universal health care, there's no going backward. I mean, Republicans have been in charge of Congress in the White House in the United States since Obamacare was passed, not the entire time, but since Obamacare was passed, they've had the opportunity to, quote, repeal and replace. They've been running on repealing and replacing or just repealing Obamacare for years. And it hasn't happened. And you could say that's either because of the ineffectiveness of the.

Republican Party in the United States, or you could just realize that what Ronald Reagan says is true that a government program is as close to eternal life as you get to experience on Earth. Like, it just doesn't end. And so just realize, just like with every collectivist program or collectivist regime, once you get there, there's no going backwards. And so you have to be vigilant. And I always just tell people, a lot of people really want to check out with politics right now. you know, like I said, we're recording this in January. People are like, okay, new administration, boring administration, don't need to pay attention to what's going on.

I just encourage people, don't look away. Don't stop paying attention because these changes happen little by little. And all of a sudden, you've surrendered your freedoms. And you did it in the name of not wanting to watch the news anymore or not wanting to pay attention to politics. And I think your story reminds us of the urgency of us all paying attention while we still have the freedom to do so. For sure. And I think ultimately, even if you don't care about politics, politics still cares about you. And these aren't people who are just happy to let you sit back and live your life.

These are policies that are going to affect you and your family every single day. Yep. And I always say if you care about people, you care about politics because politicians affect policies, which affect people. And so people who say, oh, you know, I just want to, I just want to focus on Christ and I want to disengage from politics. Well, Christ tells us that we should care about people. We should love our neighbor as herself. And politics is not the only vehicle, of course, through which we care about people. But it is one way, especially the most vulnerable, are affected by policies, which are

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diseases. Like if someone smokes and they get lung cancer, of course, we still want them to be treated for lung cancer. If someone is obese because of an unhealthy lifestyle and they get heart disease or something like that, then of course, we still want them to get treatment for that because that's a compassionate thing to do. They're human beings. But that standard isn't necessarily applied. And even some of these unhealthy lifestyles are being glorified. And you've talked about this before, how body positivity, while it can be a very good thing, also leads us into toxic realms of glorifying unhealthy behavior that then ends up not just burdening the system. the healthcare system like somewhere in Canada, but also just it just encourages people to live in a way

that is not healthy for them individually, right? For sure. And just to be clear, when it comes to body positivity, I absolutely think that the way you look should not define yourself worth. It's also very possible to be too skinny, and that's not healthy either. You know, there are parts of the body positivity movement that I think are worthwhile. I totally agree. But it's kind of morphed for a lot of these activists. into what's been known as like the fat acceptance movement. And again, like being fat doesn't make you a bad person, absolutely. And if, you know, if you want to live a certain lifestyle, that should be your choice.

But what bothers me is that there are these people and organizations out there who are presenting the public with a false message that is that you can be obese and very overweight and still be perfectly healthy, which is just not true. You know, I like to compare it to smoking, as you did. there's a reason why cigarettes come with these big warning labels nowadays. If someone wants to make the decision to smoke knowing that it has health consequences, that should be their decision. Same with, you know, eating a lot of, let's say, processed or fatty foods.

If you really want to do that and you're all right with the possibility of weight gain or some of the other health risks like heart disease, that still should be your choice. But you should be informed of the consequences when you're doing. And that's what really bothers me about this whole fat acceptance thing. it's not that I think fat people should be shamed. Nothing like that. But don't lie to people when it comes to decisions they're making about their health. It's a very serious thing. Yeah. And I think the good parts about the body positivity movement that I like, like, I remember when I was little in or like when you're

just starting to pay attention to like pop artists or like TV, I was probably 10 or something like that. So early 2000s. And I remember the look then was to have like super narrow, hips and to have, you know, a super flat stomach and everyone wore like the really low-rise jeans and you would wear the shirt that was like right beneath your belly button and for some reason like the bottom of your torso. Like so disgusting. And of course, I would have never been allowed to wear something like that anyway. But I remember being like a preteen and wanting to dress like that and being like, well, my body doesn't do that. Like my torso's too short. I have hips or whatever. And I do think that having completely unrealistic standards for girls is unhealthy.

It is damaging. And one thing I like is that we are showing that, hey, you don't have to be a perfect size to or have narrow, you know, boy hips in order to be in order to be pretty or in order to be accepted, that there is a range of healthiness. And there is beauty in the different kind of forms that it's not bad if you have cellulite. There are different, there are different body types and there are different so-called imperfections that are perfectly okay to show. I think all of that is really healthy and really positive and something that should be encouraged. I think exactly what you said when it goes to the

point to where we're denying objective truth that, okay, yes, you don't have to be a size two to be healthy. That's absolutely true. But also, there is a range of health that we probably need to stay in in order to be scientifically grounded. Like, there are objectively consequences to being unhealthy with your lifestyle more than just weight gain. Like, I mean, there's diabetes and heart disease and things like that. And so I worry that taking it too far, it's going to hurt a lot of people. And I don't know, we've even seen a backlash.

People like Lizzo, she said she was going to go on a diet or some juice cleanse or something like that. And people like ripped her head off for even thinking about that. Why do you think that people take it? Why do you think people are so angry about it? When people say, you know, actually it's, I'm going to start, you know, losing weight or like Adele going on a diet or eating healthier. Why do you think it's caused such, I don't know, an uproar?

Well, it really has. And if your audience isn't familiar with it, yeah, you're right. Lizzo, she did go on a juice cleanse. I'm not familiar exactly with what that cleanse entailed, but she said that she was doing it because she wanted to feel better. And I think she may have ended up losing a little bit of weight, even though, according to her, that wasn't the main intention. And it's true, people can go on cleanse or detox journeys for any number of reasons. But she was very, very viciously attacked and shame for it.

And I think the reason why people, some of these people have this visceral reaction to anything to do with weight loss or, you know, health is that, you know, in their minds, if you're actually, you're trying to lose weight or you think changing your eating habits is a good thing. that means that what they were like before was somehow less than perfectly desirable. If you want to lose weight, that means you're saying being heavier isn't good or like this food isn't as perfectly nutritious as this other food. So it kind of chips away at the message that they're trying to send people. And this is another really toxic element of the fat acceptance movement is if it's gotten to the point now where we're actually shaming people for trying to make healthier choices. That's, that's not okay. Like, I think, like so much of the, I guess the 21st century, the name of the game here is overcorrection. Right? We used to be shaming and bullying people.

So true. There are still people who get shamed and bullied for being overweight now, and that's not okay either, but it's also not okay to bully people for trying to make healthier decisions. And, you know, to your point about what it's like to kind of grow up as a teenage girl with all of these, you know, models who look nothing like your average person is that I do appreciate how people are also speaking up about Photoshop and the way that it's used to manipulate images in the media because for a lot of girls it's like it's not just that you don't look like the model in the magazine is that even the model in the magazine doesn't really look like the model in the magazine and you know so for fashion and makeup and things like that they've actually taken things to a point now where it's completely

divorced from reality you don't see skin texture pores or anything. any of the things you would see normally on a person. And a lot of the times the things they're editing out, it's not that it makes your skin healthy or unhealthy. It's perfectly natural. It's perfectly natural to, like you said, have cellulite or stretch marks or, you know, people struggle with acne.

You know, it's all right to want to address these issues without kind of going totally overboard and saying, all right, or throwing any type of health standards out the window, 500 pounds, totally healthy. You think about these poor teenings, teenagers too who are starting to get some kind of body dysmorphia or like facial dysmorphia because of the filters that are on Instagram. I don't have Snapchat, but I'm sure on Snapchat, I have no

idea if TikTok has filters. But they, you know, they totally change. I mean, I've seen some of those and you like put them on as a joke and you're like, oh my gosh, your lips are bigger. Your cheeks are more narrow. Like your eyes are bigger. Your eyelashes are longer. And I think at this stage of your life, I'm, you know, 28 years old. My. frontal lobe has developed. It doesn't bother me. Like, it doesn't make me insecure and make me think, wow, I really wish I looked like that. But when you're 13, 14, 15 years old, and you're just, you know, starting to try to be comfortable with what you look like, I do think that things like that, those filters, what you're seeing on social media, these unrealistic standards, now it's, you know,

you have to be super curvy, look like a Kardashian or whatever. I think it can put a lot of a huge, a huge burden on people, but it's so insightful what you said. The overcorrection of that also can be unhealthy. And I guess it's just the responsibility of sane people to try to bring people back into balance. It also reminds me when you said overcorrection of, okay, there are harmful gender stereotypes that people shouldn't be plugged into that if you're a guy, sure, you should be free to like dance or pink or whatever.

If you're a girl, you should be free to. like mud or four-wheeling, whatever. But we have almost over-corrected what could have been seen as harmful gender stereotypes to pigeonhole people. And now we have decided, well, there's no such thing as real gender at all. There's no real fundamental biological difference between a male and a female. Do you see the consequences of that over-correction as well? And do you think that we'll be able to move it back? Yeah, absolutely.

And it's kind of frustrating because as someone, who did grow up considering myself a tomboy. You know, I look back to my child. Which is so surprising, by the way. Which is very surprising because we spent 10 minutes before this talking about a blowdrying round brush and makeup and hair products. So you never know. I used to be totally into the tomboy stuff or buy T-shirts exclusively, things like that.

And, you know, I look back now, it's kind of like, wow, would I have been labeled some sort of like gender or fluid or non-binary things? if I had grown up nowadays. And I think you're absolutely right. You know, there was a time in history, which unfortunately not that long ago within a couple generations where, you know, if you were a girl and you didn't fit the exact

female archetype of being feminine and, you know, flirty, girly, beautiful, whatever, you were shamed for it. And likewise for men, if you didn't live up to that masculine ideal, then that was considered a bad thing and you could be bullied for it. I don't think that's, again, like bullying in general, not okay. And I think people should be free to express themselves, even if the way that they do so

may not naturally fit their gender's stereotypical behavior. That's okay. If your little girl wants to play with hot wheels instead of a Barbie, let her. It's all right. But now I think we've gone to the point where we've not just wanted to allow people

to live more freely. We've actually begun deconstructing and debasing gender as an entire concept, which is like, all right, you've lost me here. And it's scary because especially like if you read, you know, what psychologists say about raising healthy boys and girls, it's that, you know, a lot of the times the child same-sex parent. So if you're a daughter, your mother or son, your father, those are the strongest role models for that child. And right

now we're deconstructing the family and gender as well. And I worry that there's like a lot of children who are going to be growing up, not really knowing what it means to be a man or a woman and not just for society, but for themselves. And these are these are, these are, questions that I think, you know, every teen who's kind of growing up struggles with. And I think we've kind of removed any form of guidance that as a society or as parents, individuals, we might have been able to give those children. Because there is something very fulfilling, you know, as a woman coming into her womanhood and being able to embrace that femininity or not your choice. But, you know, just the fact that it should be there, it should exist is for some reason controversial now.

Yeah. We've gone to the point to where we think that we can change. human nature. We're debating human nature as if it's up for debate. We're debating biology as if it's having an argument with us. And biology is like, look, I'm just here. I don't have an argument to make. I am what I am. I am. I am what I am. Accept me or not, but I'm not going away. And there's no societal change that you can do, no philosophical opining that you can do that is going to change biology. And I think progressives hearing you say that, okay, you know, the family structure actually has a biological, sociological aspect to it that affects a child's psychology. It affects how they develop. It affects how they see themselves and their own gender. They'll say, oh, no, that's not true. You can reconstruct the

family however you want to you. There will be no consequences whatsoever. I always say that progressivism gets human nature wrong. When you debate nature. versus nurture, they always say nurture that human beings are malleable, that we can change basically human nature to fit our societal whims. The fact that for millennia family has been made up of a mom and a dad and a child and that we have split human beings between male and female, that doesn't matter at all. We can change it because in the last five minutes, we have decided to do that and no one will be negatively affected. But human nature is like a beach ball. Truth is like a beach ball. You can try to push it under the water as hard as you can. It's going to keep popping back up. I think that we're already

starting to see that, but it's not a pretty picture between the activists who want to deny biology and those of us who are saying, hey, you know, science still matters. We can debate the stereotypes for sure, but science still matters. And I just worry about who's going to win that debate. Unfortunately, the more I see news stories of, you know, different parents losing custody battles because their child claims their trends and the parent doesn't want to give them treatment, I'm more and more convinced that at the moment at least the side of sanity is not doing well. And it just means we need to speak up more and more because, you know, you ask the question, who ends up getting hurt by this?

I think, honestly, it's the children, right? We're seeing children now starting to come forward of, hey, I had this hormone therapy or surgery when I was younger because I thought I was trans, but I think I was just going through a phase, but now my body is permanently changed, right? There are those stories out there. Never mind, when we just talk about the family more broadly, we see that there is a distinct impact on a child's life, for example, if a father is not present. If you look at, for example, delinquents or people who are in juvenile detention facilities, one of the biggest overarching factors that, you know, binds them together, it's not class, it's not race, it's the fact that they come from

fatherless homes. This is an epidemic. And it affects, young women as well, women who grew up without a father in the home are way more likely to, for example, become pregnant as a teen or have a child out of wedlock. This matters. And I feel like we've, we've too far tried to compensate for being nice to people and accepting every lifestyle where we've forgotten that actually, you know, there are people who could be hurt if people make the wrong choices, but we're so afraid of offending everyone. We don't, it's like as a society, we've agreed, oh, we can't say anything anymore, which is unfortunate for the people who are being hurt by these choices.

Yeah, children are almost always the subject of our social experiments. And the people conducting these social experiments really don't care how the child turns out. I mean, they are just, they're just writing the waves of our progressive social whims. And we're just hoping for the best. And like you said, I think it's going to take this next generation, growing up and being given the voice of being able to be honest and say like yeah me getting this treatment this hormone treatment as a 10 year old wasn't good for me i was the same way i never wanted to wear a dress i never wanted to i i liked snakes and bugs which is totally not me like i'm not a

tomboy i wasn't athletic or anything like that but i hated wearing a dress i hated brushing my hair i wanted to wear a white t-shirt and jeans and i just i i don't know if i was a tomboise i i don't know if i was a tomboy, but I definitely was not girly. And I think about the same thing. I'm like, oh, my gosh, what if I had been, what if my parents, you know, had been these progressive people who had been told by some child psychologist, you know, about eight years old, we need to start doing purity blockers. That is, that's a terrifying, that's a terrifying prospect. You're right. I do think that we all need to speak up a little bit more. Can you leave? people with any kind of encouragement, motivation to speak up about all the issues that we talked about

today, but they're feeling scared, they're worried about cancel culture, they're worried about being bullied, but really the future of sanity is on sane people telling the truth, right? Right, for sure. Well, I think that there are more of us out there than we might think because so many people are afraid to keep our mouths shut. And I know, you know, this is being filmed in January, but I'm sure things will probably be the same kind of macabre feeling among a lot of of conservative or Christian circles that, you know, you could feel discouraged. And, you know, my Bible study is actually going through the book, like, through judges right now. So it's very, very timely. But this is actually our time to shine, right? It is these times where things seem like

they're going poorly or things are hard that people who are convicted and have a message to send really have the opportunity to do so. So I think it's not only an opportunity. It's also a responsibility for us to try to make things better for future generations, for even us later down the line. And, you know, this is not a time to sit back and give up. It's actually the opposite. We need to be more vocal now than ever. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Lauren. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Thank you for having me. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe

is true about God, humanity and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.