Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 46 | Abortion Ain't Biblical

Episode Date: October 16, 2018

An Episcopal church in California hosts an atheist abortion doctor to teach the congregation about her "mission" in her work. We discuss why abortion will never, ever be congruent with biblical Christianity. Plus, does "purity culture" really lead to rape culture? 10/16/2018 Copyright CRTV. All rights reserved.

Hey guys, what's up. It's Allie. Welcome to Relatable. This is a podcast by CRTV. You can subscribe at CRTV.com slash Ali if you would like to watch this rather than just listen to it. So I'm going to give you full disclosure. I am actually not at home recording this podcast as you are listening to it. I am actually in California. So I think I can tell you at this point what I am. doing in California, even though as I am recording this, I'm not there yet as you are listening to it. I am sure that I will be posting on my Instagram stories that I'm in California. So I just wanted to make sure that you knew that I'm not recording it at the same time. I guess it doesn't really matter.

Okay. So I am, I just said, um, that's another thing. I'm going to try not to say um today because I got some feedback that, uh, that told me that I say um too much, which dang it. I didn't notice that, but I take your feedback seriously. So I'm going to try not to say it as much. Those of you who are listening are probably like, yes, I just didn't want to tell you. I didn't want to hurt your feelings.

But you do say, um, so much. And you're just so glad that someone was a scapegoat for all of you and actually messaged me and told me that I say, um, too much. I'm going to try not to. I cannot guarantee that I won't say it at all. But I'm going to try not to. And I am sorry. I'm sorry that I have been,

dang it, that I have been filling in the spaces with, and I'm mad at all of you that you haven't told me. Only one of you reached out to me and told me. The guy that works with me didn't even tell me. So I just feel betrayed by everyone. I'm going to try really hard not to say so many times in this podcast. Like I said, it will probably happen a couple times. Anyway, I will be in California, or as you're listening to this, I am in California.

Actually, I'll probably be on a plane as you are listening to this. So I'm in California speaking for Turning Point USA. I'll be in L.A. And then I go to Nashville. And in Nashville, I am doing slash I did by the time that you are listening to this, a PBS special with some people that I do not traditionally agree with, like Chelsea Handler, like Rose McGowan, like Olivia Munn, like Gloria Steinem. So all really intense feminist that I was very nervous to be on a panel with. However, I was also honored by the opportunity to have a conversation.

I will let you guys know via social media when that special is actually going to to air. We recorded it Monday in Nashville and we, it is going to air later this week. So I'll let you know. I'm sure it was a fiery conversation. I'm having a really hard time with my tenses right now because it's like in the future as I'm recording this in the past as you're listening. Anyway, Nashville. And then I go to San Francisco in San Francisco. My husband is meeting me there, which is going to be great and fun. I'm also speaking at UC Berkeley. I'm teaching a class there. So all kinds of fun stuff. It's a busy week. But that is why I am recording these podcasts this week early. And I'm going to try to talk about kind of more topical, less time sensitive things. But you guys know, for those of you who

have been listening for a while, that we don't always talk about the news. We talked about the news a lot when Kavanaugh was happening and when anything big is happening in the news, I try to keep you all up to date. Who knows, maybe this week as you're listening to this, the world is falling apart and you need me guys to catch you guys up on the news. I won't be able to do that. We are going to talk about something more theological first. And then we're going to talk about a really interesting article that I read and I am going to refute it a little bit. So we're going to talk about this video that someone sent me. I'm just going to play you a little clip of it. So one of you sent me a YouTube video of an atheist abortion provider speaking at a church

near your house. And she gave this speech about how she is helping the world by decapitating babies in the womb. And it is beyond parity. So first, I watched this almost to this whole 39-minute video just because I was so amazed that there are supposed houses of God that are actually doing this kind of thing. The pastor gets up or the priest, whatever it is in Episcopal world. I don't really know. I've never been to an Episcopal church. He gets up. First thing that he says, before he says anything, is, hi.

My pronouns are him, he, or him, his, he. I don't know what you say when you introduce your pronouns. I was like, okay, this is what we're getting into. This is the kind of, this is the kind of church that we're getting into. Kind of makes sense that we are also talking to an abortion provider and an atheist in Sunday service. What I suppose is Sunday service. Okay. So Dr. Leah Torres, this abortion provider who provides abortions in Salt Lake City where she believes there is an onslaught of hate.

against her profession because Mormonism is traditionally pro-life, thank God. She gives her testimony about how she is supposedly saving lives through killing babies. So here's just a little snippet of that. If any of you have happened upon the rabbit hole, that is my Twitter feed, you already know that I do my best to live by Matthew 712, summarized as do unto others as you would have done unto you. There's not a situation I've been in or can think of

where that would not be helpful. Imagine if applying that principle were as commonplace and instinctual as opening the door for someone. A world like that doesn't have wars and a world like that doesn't have murders. There probably isn't intimate partner violence and there probably aren't children going hungry.

such a simple code would do so much good in the world. Okay, let's break this down just a little bit. First, I think it's great that she abides by due unto others as you would have done unto you. I think that is wonderful. I think we should all be abiding by that. And she is right that we would have fewer hungry kids. We would have fewer victims of domestic violence. we would have fewer tragedies in the world if everyone just treated other people the way that

they want to be treated. She's absolutely right. Obviously, Jesus knew what he was talking about. I've said this concept before that all truth is God's truth. So even an atheist can believe in something that is true in God's word without actually having the Holy Spirit and believing in Christ. That truth is still going to manifest itself in positive ways. For example, if someone, if someone read the proverbs and they aligned their life completely with the proverbs, they're still going to reap the benefits of having a wise life or having, I won't say a prosperous life, but a life, a life that is defined by wisdom and discernment and that's probably going to turn out well for them. Now, spiritually, they still won't be fulfilled. Eternally, they still won't be saved.

but their life will still end up well because God created certain principles and certain practices and certain behavior to reap good benefits. So anyway, she says that she abides by this rule, treat others as you would like to be treated. And that is great. However, an atheist has no place in a church. Okay. Now, like I said, that doesn't mean they cannot have wisdom. Maybe they even have wisdom to offer. Maybe they have a perspective to offer that church members don't have. But believers in Christ believe that wisdom, knowledge, everything is fulfilled in Christ by the Holy Spirit. There is no discernment in the house of God that should be gleaned from someone who is outside of Christ. there's just not.

If in general, we believe that when someone tells us something who is not a Christian, we have to take it with a grain of salt because it is not, it's not defined by the gospel or it's not powered by the Holy Spirit, then why would we invite someone like that into our church? And she's not just an atheist. Dr. Leah Torres is also an abortion provider. Now, the pastor at the beginning of this said that he is very thankful for Planned Parenthood. He said something crazy like that. And this woman, who is an atheist, is going up there and talking about how important it is

for her to provide abortions. Now, she doesn't get into the graphics of abortion. Surprise, surprise. She only talks about reproductive health and reproductive freedom and giving women options and emergency, you know, crisis. pregnancies. Of course, she's appealing to her audience. This allows her audience to have empathy for these women that are in crisis pregnancy situations. She's making it seem like she is saving lives and contributing to society in a positive way. But that doesn't get around the reality that you and I know

that abortion is literally decapitating a child in the womb with forceps and tearing them apart limb from limb or sucking them out with a vacuum or poisoning them with a pill. There is no alignment with that gruesome, brutal, almost archaic reality and the compassion that God has in the Bible. Abortion and biblical living and righteous theology and a relationship with Christ do not coexist ever. And there are a few reasons for that. The most obvious is that you are killing an innocent human life. The only killing that we see condoned in the Bible, I'm not saying it's wonderful and awesome and good and we should cheer for it. But the killing that is condoned in the Bible is the death penalty

for particular crimes. Obviously in America, it's for murder that we exact the death penalty and in war. So a lot of people say, well, how can you be pro-life and also be okay with war and also be okay with the death penalty? While it's a little bit different sucking a child outside of the womb who can't defend itself and war, where people are voluntarily engaging and the punishment of execution for someone who murdered someone else. It's just a little bit different. That's a false equivalence. So to say that there is any biblical support for abortion whatsoever is categorically wrong. Everyone who has ever read the Bible or who has gone to church knows Psalm 139 that God knitted us together in our most.

mother's womb. He knows us full well. Ephesians 1 talks about predestining us before the foundation of the world. He's talking about believers in that case. But still, that means that he knew us before he even created the earth. He destined all of us. That means he takes special care of the preborn, of the unborn. It's not just people who are outside the womb that God cares about. It is everyone on the spectrum of life from fertilization to death. And we as Christians should be caring for them in the exact same way. Now, in a perfect world, I think Dr. Leah Torres would agree. In a perfect world, there would be no, quote, need for an abortion.

Women wouldn't get pregnant and not want their child. They wouldn't be in an abusive situation. There wouldn't be rape. There wouldn't be incest. There wouldn't be all of these horrible things. So she feels like because these things are, reality, then abortion should be available to people. And I, as a Christian and as a logical thinking person, completely reject that idea. There is no circumstance whatsoever that justifies the

brutal killing of an innocent human being. Is there? I mean, logically, is there, when in any other situation would it be okay to kill a child? Really? And the only situation that I think abortion that you can have a morally, logically sound conversation about the ethics, the possibly good ethics or acceptable ethics of abortion is when the mother's life, physical life is truly in danger. But as we know, that accounts for, I think, less than 1% of abortions. It just doesn't happen very often in America that a woman has to get an abortion in order to survive.

There was even a professor. at Furman where I went to college. She had breast cancer when I was there. She actually got pregnant right after she found out that she had breast cancer. The doctors told her, you have to abort this child. There's no way that you can have this child and have breast cancer. I don't even know if she was a Christian or if she was pro-life, but she ended up having the child.

The child is wonderful, healthy, awesome. She is in remission from breast cancer. And it's just, it's amazing. It's amazing that doctors. would give that choice to someone, knowing that there's a strong possibility that the baby lives and is still strong and healthy and has a wonderful life. So I'm not sure that there ever really is a reason. Maybe in a very, very, very, very rare case, there is a reason for a mother to have to abort the child to save her own life. In that case, I think that you can have a

conversation about it, that it should be a choice because then it's a physical life versus a physical life. What are you going to do? But except in those very rare cases, you are killing an innocent child for the sake of convenience, for the sake of feeling like you don't have enough resources, just not wanting a child. None of these things are ever justifications for killing someone outside the womb. So why does it change when the child is inside the womb? in order to be okay with abortion, you also have to be okay with infanticide, logically. Because what changes when they're outside of the womb? They're still a child just because they, just because of their location, that doesn't mean

that it's justified to kill them. So this woman says that abortion is good, that it is, apparently this falls in line with her principles to do unto others as she would have done to her. So I guess she would be fine if she was defenseless someone coming up to her while she's sleeping with giant foreseps and ripping her limbs and her head off. Like I guess that's just part of her worldview that it would be fine if someone did that to her. So after she said the little clip that I played to you, she just said a bunch of gibberish. She didn't say anything logical whatsoever. And then all of these people, they started asking questions.

much of old people in the audience, too, which kind of surprised me. I don't remember where this church was. She just, she started explaining the importance of her work. This woman stood up and she said that she heard this story about this guy who was at BYU in Salt Lake City. I think it's in Salt Lake City. It's obviously a Mormon university who committed suicide because his girlfriend got pregnant and he got kicked out of BYU because of that. And while that's a whole, horrible story. Obviously, what they are trying to say is that abortion would be more empathetic. Abortion would be more compassionate, that if we were just allowed to kill our children, then maybe everything would be okay. No talk about personal responsibility. No talk about, hey, the church

needs to rally around these women in crisis pregnancy situations. Help her take care of the child. Maybe help her with adoption services. Maybe help her find a job. Help her. Help her. learn how to be a mom, whatever it is. Abortion should not be on the table for the people of God. And it really worries me to see a church like this, especially filled with older people. That's just so surprising. Say, yes, abortion is the compassionate option here. We should be listening to this atheist abortion provider give us her testimony about how awesome abortion is. If the church goes in that direction, if the church compromises, if the church compromises, And I know Episcopal, the Episcopal church is different. They've always been liberal. They've always

been on the left. They've always allowed things that are unbiblical. I don't even know if, I won't speak for all Episcopal churches, but a lot of Episcopal churches that I know are down the same vein. And they also won't even say that Jesus is the only way, the only truth and the only life. But if other denominations follow suit down the same vein that Episcopals have followed, basically, abandoning scripture in favor of what is culturally convenient, then we are done for. Like, there's nothing more a fundamental and basic to stand for than the value of human life. There is no denial of it whatsoever. There is no room within Christianity for being pro-choice.

Absolutely none. There's just not, not with any biblical support. And that's why I harp on Christian teachers and Christians who have, who, have kind of wedded themselves to this SJW cause. There are pastors whom I love in every other way, like Matt Chandler, like Russell Moore, wedding themselves to this cause of SJW Christianity when it comes to immigration, when it comes to racial reconciliation. If you're new around here, I've talked about this in depth. I would go to past episodes to hear my views on the church and immigration and the church and racial reconciliation and how there's just a lot of misinformation

out there that I think otherwise great Christian teachers are latching on to like Matt Chandler. I played y'all a little clip of Matt Chandler talking to Vice, how he says Obama was this awesome man. Anyway, I think what these Christian teachers don't understand is that right now, while they are spewing out the talking points, the liberal talking points for immigration, and the liberal talking points for race, the liberal talking points for misogyny and sexuality and feminism and all of this stuff, they think that they are going to be able to compromise on these things and that they are going to be able to appease the progressives,

that they can sound enough like the progressive movement to where people won't call them bigots. But what they don't realize is that that's not how progressivism works. It doesn't, it's never satisfied. It's not satisfied with you just being on their side for a few things like immigration and race and not being on their side when it comes to abortion. So Matt Chandler and his Vice interview, which I don't know why he would do an interview with Vice. But if you want to go check it out, you definitely should.

It's interesting. He says some good things and some bad things. I'm interested to know what Vice and the people who watch Vice and the people who now follow Matt Chandler because they saw him on vice and liked the things that he had to say about President Trump and Barack Obama, what they are going to think when they hear his sermons on sexual purity, when they hear his sermons on homosexuality, when they hear his sermons on abortion. Because he is the most adamant defender of the pro-life cause within the evangelical community that I have certainly heard the most powerful statements ever made about abortion,

in my opinion have come from that Chandler. I don't think he realizes that they're going to try to take that from him too. And all the people in the evangelical world, they think that, oh, if we get on board with the, oh, we're for racial reconciliation, we're against misogyny, all of these things, which in some ways is good. But spouting their talking points and holding hands with the social justice secular movement is not going to end well for the church. It's not going to end well for otherwise good teachers because they are going to try to advance territory.

They're going to try to take your views on abortion and make you change your mind. They're going to make you take your views on homosexuality, make you change your mind on sexuality, on gender, on all of these things. And I'll be interested to know what people like Matt Chandler, Russell Moore, all the people, you know, in the ERLC and the SBC who have kind of softened their stance. on these things. I'll be interested to know how they react when they are forced or attempted, or are attempted, like the left attempts to force them to change their views on these obviously very biblical grounded issues. Now, I'm hoping that this Episcopal church is just an outlier, that we don't follow suit in that direction. But I don't know. I get worried. Someone message me and ask me, because, you know, you all know, I don't love Stephen Ferdick. I think that he is

isogetical and he's just not biblical in a lot of what he says. Someone messaged me and said, what Christian teacher would you listen to? And I had a hard time because Matt Chandler used to be my go-to. And I still think that he's great. I don't think that he's a false teacher. I just think that he has started to interspers his sermons with the social justice language that I think is ultimately damaging an impediment to the gospel and just unbiblical in general because social justice isn't justice. But I guess I would still, if your question is the same, because I get this question a lot, I mean, David Plott is still great. Paul Washer is still great. I still really like John McArthur. Rosaria Butterfield is a great author. Christopher Yuan, great author.

There are still a lot of great teachers out there. And again, I'm not saying that Chandler is a false teacher. You can still listen to him, but you just have to be wary of all of the, all of the social justice language that he has in there. Now, speaking of evangelicals, there was a very interesting article that I read. It's a couple of, it's a few weeks old now. It was in the Huffington Post, and it was about a lady who goes by, or it was written by a lady who goes by the term ex-vangelical. I believe, I think this is like, a whole movement. So she left the evangelical church because of all of the problems that it has and wrote this article saying that she understands why evangelical women are supporting

Brad Kavanaugh. And the reason she gave is because of the purity culture. She wrote this entire article about how the purity culture really damaged her view of sexuality, really damaged her view of her body, made her think that rape was okay, made her think that sexual assault was okay. And she says that all of us women in the evangelical community are so tainted by this purity culture, are so tainted with this mindset that rape is okay, apparently, that that's why we are blindly supporting him. So basically making us look like sheep that can't think for ourselves because we've been so brainwashed by our youth pastors. This is the problem with these deconversion stories,

who I'm sure she probably still thinks that she's a Christian in the same way that Rachel Held Evans does and the same way that Jen Hatmaker does in the same way that all of these Glenn and Doyle, all of these deconversion people do. They think there are better Christians now than they were before. It's funny, though, how they think that abandoning more and more scripture because it doesn't conveniently fit into their worldview, makes them better Christians.

That's never the case. So she makes the case that the purity culture is to blame for evangelical support for Kavanaugh, which is absolutely absurd. I was raised in this purity culture. I was raised in the 90s and early 2000s. I totally get it. We had the true love weights purity ring that really did nothing. We had the talks about purity.

We had the rules not to. you know, be in a dark room alone with a guy, all of this stuff. I'm very familiar with it. And while I'm not really sure that it did any good, I don't know if it was very effective in keeping boys and girls off of each other. It never promoted rape. Like, I never had a problem understanding consent. I never thought, hey, maybe sexual assault is okay. No, because that's not supported by scripture whatsoever. But what is supported is purity. Like, we would all be a lot better off. if we abided by scripture when it comes to sexual purity. And I didn't.

I'm not saying that I did. I wish that I had, though, before I got married. Like, how much heartache would you avoid? How much physical, even physical trauma, you know, avoid STDs and all that stuff that people have when they sleep around. Heartbreak, physical trauma, everything else that you inherit when you mess around with people before you get married. The world would be such a better place.

We wouldn't have unwanted pregnancy. we wouldn't have hookup culture, all of these horrible things that are damaging society. So just because this lady had a negative experience with purity culture when she was at youth camp or whatever does not mean that the Bible, which supports sexual purity, is to blame for women who don't understand the difference between rape and consensual sex. And I just don't think this is true. This is what happens really in feminism and leftism in general. they take their own bad experiences and they project it onto the world and claim their systemic sexism, racism, whatever.

When really that's just not true, I know plenty of people who went through the same purity culture that I did who are not confused about rape and consent. So she's just making up this argument based on her own experiences. In so doing, she's degrading the word of God saying God is wrong about sexual purity. I am right. Which is never surprising. I've said this before. It's so funny how when people get more liberal politically, they never get closer to God. They never get closer to God.

I've never met someone who has gone to the left on the political spectrum and who has also said, wow, I believe scripture so much more. I have such a respect and love for the inherency of God's word. Now that I'm a hard left progressive. No, it's always they move to the left politically and ideologically. they start abandoning parts of God's word, and eventually they're just Christians in name only. But I can tell you a lot of people who started out on the left, dug into God's word, learned the truth of God's word, and then became conservative or moderate.

Or at least somewhere in the middle. I get messages like that all the time that when they became a Christian is when they became conservative. Now, I'm not saying that everyone on the left isn't a Christian, but I am saying often when you move to the left and become more progressive, you start abandoning God's word because a doesn't fit into your progressive worldview, that, hey, gay marriage is not actually sacred. And abortion actually isn't cool. And there are two genders male and female. There's no support that there are anymore in the Bible. All of those things don't really align with the progressive worldview.

And so they end up abandoning the inconvenient part to the Bible and just say, oh, let's just be loving and tolerant. I've just never seen someone go to the left side of the aisle and become closer to God. Okay, one more question that I'm going to answer. Someone asked me about birth control and what I think about birth control. I think it goes with this whole conversation that we're talking about. So if you were my dad or my brother listening to this, maybe you don't want to listen to this anymore because I'll just get personal. So we are, I don't take birth control. And personally, I don't want to. But it is not because of pause. possibly abortive reasons. I just, I am hypothyroid, so I take synthroid and birth control can mess up your hormones. That's happened to me before. I just didn't want to do it. So we're not on birth control. What I have heard from people who are smarter than me and better at science than I am, that there are some birth controls that do have an abortive feature to them that makes your uterus in hospitable. so that even if you get pregnant, the fetus will actually, or the zygote, whatever you want to call it, will actually die.

That is an abortion. If you believe that life starts at fertilization, which it does, there are apparently, apparently, I don't know, but there are apparently other birth controls that don't do that that actually prevent fertilization. So I would do your research before taking birth control. If you are married sexually active, I would do, I would do some research on that, on which birth. is doing what and how it's doing that. So that's my thought on it. I don't, I'm not Catholic. I don't think, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I haven't had to deal with the moral and the biblical implications of this because I'm not on birth control. But then, of course,

there's the whole question of, well, shouldn't you just trust God in getting pregnant whenever he wants you to get pregnant? Yes. But also technology medicine is awesome. Like you could say that about anything, then if that was your mentality on birth control, you could say, well, should you even take cold medicine because God will heal you when he wants to heal you? Should you do chemotherapy? Because God will heal your cancer if he wants to heal your cancer. I do think that God has allowed the development of some medicines to help us. Now, I don't think putting off kids forever and ever just because you want to be selfish and you

want to pursue your own career is a godly thing. The Bible says that kids are a blessing. So often we see kids as an inconvenient and that's an unbiblical way. to think. We shouldn't see kids as an inconvenience or an impediment to our selfish desires. Kids are a blessing. So I think you have to be honest with your own heart. You have to be honest with your community who's holding you accountable. If you are married and thinking about having kids, what are the reasons that you're not having kids? What kind of birth control are you on? Blah, blah, blah. I'm happy to hear some refutations on that. If you have them, feel free to send them to me,

Ali at the Conservative millennial blog.com. Of course, you can message me on Instagram as well. And I love you guys. Make sure to tune in to PBS this week. I will tell you what night it is on. Okay. Bye.