Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 477 | Why Biden Is Turning His Back on Americans in Afghanistan | Guest: Rebeccah Heinrichs

Episode Date: August 25, 2021

Today we're continuing our discussion on the unfolding situation in Afghanistan and what it means for the future of America and the world. To give us more context and information, we welcome Hudson Institute senior fellow Rebeccah Heinrichs back to the show. Heinrichs is a foreign policy expert. She explains what's going on right now as Americans and Afghanis try to escape the Taliban and also how this global show of weakness only serves to embolden our enemies, specifically China's CCP. --- Today's Sponsors: Alliance Defending Freedom needs your support now more than ever with the family, freedom, and even basic biological reality under constant attack. Join the growing number of Americans standing in solidarity to defend freedom and liberty at ADFLegal.org/ALLIE. Good Ranchers have traveled the US and met with the actual farmers that raise the livestock to ensure their craft beef and better than organic chicken they are sending to your table is the very best. Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE to get $20 off & free express shipping! Or if you subscribe today, you'll save 20% on each box of mouth-watering meals. Prayer Bowls helps you pray for the people you love, people you haven't met, and circumstances you have no control over. The prayer bowl is a unique hand-crafted ceramic or wooden bowl & they come with a bundle of prayer cards. Go to PrayerBowls.com & see their beautiful selection. --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a great week. Hope you enjoyed yesterday's episode.

We kind of took a breather and a break from the news. Talked to a mental health professional who helped us understand where anxiety comes from, how to hand. our anxiety. And then she also gave tips to parents that are dealing with teenagers that are dealing with anxiety and depression. And she just gave us a whole lot of really practical, helpful tools. So if you are looking for a refreshing practical episode, a break from everything that's going on in the world, if you have been struggling with anxiety, I know a lot of you have, then I really recommend yesterday's episode. I personally found it. extremely, extremely helpful, especially just with feeling sometimes like the weight of the world

is on our shoulders. Today we are going to talk about something that's going on in the world. We're going to talk about Afghanistan. We're going to get an update on everything that's going on with that, what the Biden administration has done and what they have said. This week, I'm going to talk to Rebecca Heinrichs. She is an expert on all of this. We've had her on before to talk about China and just geopolitics in general. She has been in this sphere for a sphere for a very long time. Always appreciate getting her perspective. She's also, she's a Christian.

She's a mom of five. And so not only does she have a very smart and expert take on everything, but she also has a very compassionate and human perspective that she puts into all of her foreign policy analyses. And so I'm really excited for you to listen to this conversation. Without further ado, here is Rebecca Heinrichs. Rebecca, thank you so much for joining us again. Last week, we talked to Morgan Ortegaus,

and she kind of gave us a rundown on the context, just going all the way back to why we're here and why we are seeing everything that we're seeing right now. I would love for you to kind of bring us up to speed, Biden has addressed the nation a few times telling us what his plan is to get Americans out, but it seems like that plan is not actually following through. So where are we right now? Great. So thanks for having me back. President Biden has now addressed the nation a couple of times, of course, without taking questions afterwards. And so there are some big questions that the press has

had that have gone unanswered. Jen Sacky, of course, the press secretary has tried to handle some of those. The big question that was kind of hanging over the heads of people is, is this August 31st deadline, something that Biden is going to enforce or not? Now, the August 31st deadline was something that was agreed upon with the United States and the Taliban. The Taliban has said, you cannot go beyond August 31st. So whoever you're going to get out of the country, you have to have them out by August 31st. NATO and some of our other European ally partners wanted the United States, wanted our side, the good guys, to extend the deadline until we got everybody out. Right. And they were under the impression that the United States would do that.

Boris Johnson had really argued for that from the UK. Biden said no. So we've essentially have sort of the making of a hostage crisis here because we still have thousands of Americans citizens still in Afghanistan. I think the last number I saw was last week, the Department of Defense said there was 11,000 American citizens still in Afghanistan. And then the White House said now that there's about, I think there's about 7,000 left still in the country. And the priority at this point for people getting out is going to be U.S. military forces. So they are already starting to come home, coming out of Afghanistan. So we're going to have American civilians and those SIVs, those individuals who have visas who have been working.

with the United States where Afghan nationals are still going to be stranded behind, you know, behind and under the control of the Taliban. Okay. So the U.S. military is starting to evacuate. And so civilians are going to be left behind. Is there any plan at all to get those civilians home? Or is it just kind of like they have to figure it out? No. The way I think about this is, you know, I think there's a couple of things that are starting to kind of bother me about how people are thinking about this one, you know, a lack of a plan means that that is the plan. So the plan for the Biden administration is to leave American citizens behind after August 31st. That is the plan.

There is no others, I mean, if people want to evacuate, there's no practical, logistical way to get people out. The biggest flaw in all of this, which is something that this administration continues to be defiant about, was the decision to shutter Bagram air base, this sprawling, it was the epicenter of what we were doing in Afghanistan. We did not have to abandon that base. We abandoned that base. And so the ability to airlift to get people out has been very, very limited because we're going by that Karzai, that international airport, that smaller airport. Biden administration keeps saying, Bogram was too far away from the embassy, and that's the reason we made the decision. That's not true. It's only about 35 miles. from from Kabul right so and there's a main road that takes you there so it is I mean

incompetent isn't even the right word people keep using that word because incompetent connotes that there was a lack of skill I mean this was just a series of horrific judgments that aren't even nothing of the past they continue to be made Joe Biden continues to make these bad judgments so again I'm you know I think we're watching the making of a hostage crisis and when I'm looking towards out is September 11th, 20-year anniversary. You know, what is the Taliban going to do to celebrate the defeat of the United States and NATO, which is exactly how they perceive what's happening, and especially whenever there's U.S. citizens that are left behind?

I mean, there are private citizens in the United States who are actually going to Afghanistan to try to rescue people there, specifically Christians. For example, Glenn Bakke has something called the Nazarene Fund. and they are actively trying to conduct their own rescue missions, to go get American citizens and to go get Christians. I know people from other missionary organizations that are trying to do the same thing, simply because we can't trust right now the governments and their commitment to actually rescue Americans.

And we've also seen that military from France, from the UK, from, I think Ukraine are actually going and act. trying to get, trying to rescue their citizens and take them home. And yet, is it true that our troops, they're instructed not to actually leave the airport? Is that what's happening? So that's a great question. So, yeah, some private citizens are like chartering planes to get into the country coming in through Pakistan and other countries.

And then, as you said, there's other countries like the French that have essentially sent and special forces to go wherever their people are and wherever their Afghan partners are. These are Afghans who are still there, who sided with the United States in the West, these are people who had plenty of options to bail and go side with the Taliban, and they did not. They were counting on us.

And so those other countries have gone outside the perimeter of the airport to rescue their people. The United States has not done that until very recently. I heard, I saw some, some reports that there was some of that was beginning to happen a little bit with some army, I think operations that were going beyond the perimeter a little bit. But for the most part, that is not something that Biden wanted to do. He doesn't, you know, and I think, Ellie, you know, I think he's really just so focused on optics. You know, I think that he didn't

want Bogram because he didn't want to be surging troops in to carry out this evacuation because He didn't want it to look like we were sending more people back into a military base to conduct military operations. He doesn't want it to look like we're expanding operations and going beyond the airport. He's so focused on these trivial things when we have lives on the line, American security on the line, billions of dollars of military weapons and equipment that are now going straight into the hands of the Taliban or going to be pieced out. I'm going to go to the Russians and the Chinese or whoever the Taliban want to send them to. Biden is he's being defiant about this and continuing to make what I think are horribly shameful decisions. You mentioned that it's not incompetence.

So what is it? Like you mentioned how, you know, how far away that it was only 35 miles of a distance. And obviously they had to have known that. that they had to have anticipated that this whole thing could have gone down exactly the way that it did. Obviously, intelligence reports let us know that this was a possibility. So if it's not incompetence, then what is it? I mean, I'm trying not to just think that they're completely malicious and they want the destruction of the United States and they want to strain Americans there. I would rather ascribe this whole, this whole thing to some kind of, I don't know, stupidity or

clumsiness or something, but you're saying that it's, it's probably not that. So what is it? I think that what it is, Ali, you know, Biden has had decades. I mean, I've been watching Joe Biden's foreign policy positions and listening to how he thinks about things and how he talks about things. He does not have sound judgment. You know, you weigh your options and you pick Sometimes none of your options are great, but you pick your best one. And then if that doesn't work, you have to admit this didn't work. I picked an option that didn't work. Real life happened, and now we're going to have to change. He has demonstrated that he's not willing to do that. He is inflexible and he becomes committed to decisions that he has made, even when facts on the ground change,

it's like he has tunnel vision. I think he is very motivated. very motivated for this political um you know he thinks the americans won out of afghanistan right and therefore i'm just going to get out of afghanistan and maybe he had a briefing 10 years ago where he heard a bad briefing about u.s casualties we like you know the other thing too we have not had large numbers of u.s forces in afghanistan since about 2015 and then president trump of course shrunk us way down to 2,500 troops in country but when joe biden talks about afghanistan and he talks about as if Americans are, you know, dying daily and by by large numbers when that's simply not true. It's almost like he got a briefing, you know, 10 years ago or 15 years ago and then

went to sleep and woke up. And then that's the intelligence he's using to make these decisions. It's a strange thing, but I do think that the answer is he's just, he's got tunnel vision for this political calculation that he's made. And he's just inflexibly, doggedly committed to this. deadline and to these optics. I mean, in the face of enormous ally, anger, frustration, using words like betrayal.

So this is going to derail all of what Joe Biden wanted to do in his foreign policy. I don't see how he get around it. I mean, you know, he claimed that America was back. We're going to work with allies. This has done major damage to those relationships. Hey, this is Steve Dase. If you're listening to Allie,

you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's

unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed. You can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. You talked about optics. The optics are terrible. I mean, I guess just so he can say, hey, we finally withdrew from Afghanistan. Many other presidents have promised to do it, but I actually did it. So I guess in that sense, that is superficially, you know, he thinks it's beneficial for him politically in some way. But the office,

optics of it are truly terrible. I mean, the images and the stories that we're seeing, even from the liberal media coming out of this, just the chaos and the loss of life that maybe he's right. Maybe some of that would have been inevitable. Maybe some of it, I don't know. But it does seem like the recklessness with which we withdrew exacerbated at the very least, if not fully caused everything that we are seen at the Kabul airport right now. And then, you know, we've got some people who are frustrated by the fact that not that we're accepting refugees. I think most people are on board with that. I'm on board with that.

But that there seems to be a higher priority to do that to resettle refugees here than the priority to actually rescue American citizens. Do you think that frustration is justified or do you think that or, or, or, Or do you think that people are being a little bit too harsh when it comes to that perceived prioritization? No, I think people's frustration is justified. I think what's happening now is they're just trying to get bodies on airplanes. And because it's so difficult to process people, you know, they're just being swarmed. And so they're just getting bodies on airplanes.

It's very difficult to sort of go through and figure out who's an American citizen and who's not. I've heard terrible reporting that the Taliban, that these checkpoints are ripping up credentials that people have that shows that they are American citizens. The other thing, Allie, I think, you know, to your point about how the liberal media is who is, you know, normally not covering the Biden presidency as critically as they ought to be, one of the reasons I think they're taking this so, you know, covering it, I think, so thoroughly and so accurately, too, is a lot of these media outlets have been working with Afghan nationals for years. covering the war. And so it's very deeply personal for them. And so, you know, they, that's why you've

seen, again, Fox News went around and got some of their own people out. You've got, you know, these separate news organizations that are actually going in there and trying to evacuate their own people because they've been working side by side to provide coverage of this war for 20 years. And that's, and so there's no way around it. It's a humanitarian crisis happening in the making. And so they're just covering it accurately. And you can tell the Biden officials are getting very frustrated with the way the media is accurately covering what's happening, but they're just doing their jobs. So anyway, I do think the American people are, I think that they're, I understand their

frustration, but they're just trying to get people on those airplanes. And so that's who's there at the airport, who they can board quickly. Speaking of the Biden administration, getting a little testy about this, Jin Saki, who even though I don't agree with her, I think that she does, she does a pretty good job with with what she has, I think press secretary is probably a really difficult job. But she got a little bit testy this week when Fox News asked her, like, okay, so what are we going to do about these Americans stranded? And I want to play that clip. Most of the criticism is not of leaving Afghanistan. It's the way that he has ordered it to happen by pulling the troops before getting these

Americans who are now stranded. Does he have a sense of that? First of all, I think it's irresponsible to say Americans are stranded. They are not. We are committed to bringing Americans who want to come home home. We are in touch with them via phone, via text, via email, via any way that we can possibly reach Americans to get them home if they want to return home. There are no Americans stranded is the White House's official position on what's happening in Afghanistan. I'm just calling you out for saying that we are stranding Americans in Afghanistan. When we have been very clear that we are not leaving Americans who want to return home, we are going to bring them home. And I think that's important for the American public to hear and understand.

Okay. So she basically is saying, you know, no, I don't want to hear that language. That's just, that's just not true. But I mean, is it, is it true to say that Americans are, are stranded? Or is that unfair somehow? No, that's just by definition what they are there. They're stranded. They're not going to have a way to evacuate. They're behind enemy lines. You know, Senator Cotton's staff, has been keeping people updated on who they're talking to and what they're hearing via Twitter and other means of communication. And there are American citizens who are having their limbs broken, their backs broken by the Taliban at these checkpoints. They want to get out. These are not people who are happy to be there. And they can't get past the checkpoints. So, I mean, they are stranded.

And as, I mean, I cannot imagine being them right now, knowing that U.S. forces are now leaving I mean, they're drawing down now and the priority is to get U.S. forces out of there. So, I mean, I don't, that is what's happening. I know that Jen Saki doesn't like that. So she's trying to pivot and say, but look how many people we did get out. And again, it's the tone and the defiance and the lack of just even concern of the human tragedy that is unfolding before us that I think is shameful. And Americans should, it's unsettling. to see your own government behaving in this way.

It's really unsettling. It really is. And I was very unsettled. When I saw the Secretary of State, he was talking to Chris Wallace on Fox News on Sunday. And he basically said, look, the Taliban is in charge. Like if they're going to be, because there's these, you know, checkpoints before the airport that even if an American citizen gets to the airport, I just heard a story yesterday from An American citizen, his wife, his eight-month-old child, they finally made it to the airport.

And once they got there, the Taliban, it didn't matter. Like you said, it didn't matter that he had his credentials. It didn't matter that technically he was supposed to be allowed to get on a plane and leave. The Taliban said, if you show back up here, we are going to kill you. And so now we're hearing from the Secretary of State that, sure, maybe that's not a good thing, but there's nothing that we can do about it because the Taliban's in charge. I mean, is that typically, like, do we defer to terrorists? Is that typically what the, you know, the world's superpower, the most powerful country in the world typically does is kowtow to the Taliban when our citizens are in danger?

No, it's, you can't get a wrong. around the conclusion that this administration has essentially just accepted defeat. I mean, this is just, there is a military solution. If the United States of America wanted to make sure we got all of our people out, you can say, do not lay a finger on the, you know, do not touch a hair on the head of any American. We are getting all of our people out. When our people are out, then we're gone. And that's just what they could have told them.

And we have the military ability to carry that out. Right. We would have conflict, no doubt. But that is not something that the president of the United States was willing to do. And General Austin actually said a few days ago, we don't have the capacity, which is crazy. That is crazy. That's so crazy, Ali. It's not true.

And I just, I, I, I cringed when he said that because he knows get her. We do have, he means that he has not been given the ability. He has not been authorized to do that. we certainly have the firepower to do that. We have the firepower even just around there, around the region, not even just sort of like in theory. We have it right there. You're choosing not to do this, not to do this.

And, you know, again, the Taliban wanted the United States to leave for years and years and years. They never wanted this in there. So it's not true that we could have had a plan that was a long lead up for evacuation. and the Taliban would have let the United States go. But now we've essentially handed them all of this leverage in power. Look how powerful the United States of America has made the Taliban look in these remaining days. I mean, this is still a, you know, the Taliban should not have all of this American weaponry.

They should not be dictating the terms. They should not be setting the deadline. And yet they are. And the world's preeminent power, military power, is listening. to them. You know, I, one more thing, Al, I would just say to do, you know, I traveled to a Middle Eastern country years ago when President Bush was president. And I remember even, I even left the compound for a little bit because I wanted to visit with other Americans who were in country. And I remember just thinking, nothing is going to happen to me. And maybe that was naive.

You know, you're, you're kind of a little bit more reckless before you're married with kids. But I remember thinking, nothing's going to happen to me because I'm an American citizen. And the risk would be so great and the penalty so high that nothing is going to happen to me while I'm here. I remember thinking that. And that is no more. That is long gone. I wouldn't count on that at all with this presidency. And my heart is just, it just aches for those American citizens who that their citizenship essentially is worth.

right now in Afghanistan. Right. And it's just a terrible thing to watch. It's almost like you're watching the decline of the United States just happening rapidly right before us on national TV. And it's just so hard not to think that that is intentional. Again, I don't want to ascribe the most nefarious motives to this administration when so much could be chalked up to just fumbling the ball and incompetence.

But with all the intelligence that journalists have, that just regular citizens have, that even just the average Joe could look at this situation and say, okay, I can at least see a couple ways that this could have been done differently in order to prioritize people's lives and especially American lives. And so it doesn't take a genius. It doesn't take someone who has been in office for, you know, over 40 years to figure out how this probably could have been done better. and yet every step of the way, just like you said, not only are all of these missteps made, if you could even generously, I guess, call on that, but also the defiance, the defensiveness. When George Stephanopoulos asked Joe Biden, you know, George Stephanopoulos is basically a Democrat operative. And this is about as hard as he was going to push this president.

He's like, you don't think that maybe, I don't know, like we couldn't have done anything differently. like trying to give him some opportunity to salvage this. Like not even like one tiny, tiny detail could have been arranged differently. And Joe, I didn't know. No, no. You know, that was four or five days ago that we saw people falling from planes. Every time he gets any pushback by a reporter in a press conference, like he said, he literally turns his back on the American people.

And I can't think of like a better symbol of what's happening right now. Do you think he recovers from this whole thing? do you think that the media will eventually circle the wagons and say, okay, got to get behind Joe, can't lose the midterms? I don't know. I mean, I know that the reporters who, again, who have been covering the war, the Pentagon reporters, I don't see them moving on from this so quickly. I mean, the ramifications for this are going to be ongoing. So we've got, I think, months of coverage of even just the immediate fallout. and then also what's going to happen with NATO allies as we've moved forward in other ways. Here's the other thing, too. We never even, President Biden had just committed to NATO back in June, I think it was,

that we would have an over-the-horizon plan for continuing to do counterterrorism operations as a team, as a NATO team to conduct counterterrorism. And then he pulled out, made the decision to pull out of Bogram, which is that that was abandonment. There's not even a plan at this point, Allie, to continue counterterrorism operations. from what's going to be now a full ecosystem of terrorism that's going to find harbor in Afghanistan with the Taliban in charge. So, I mean, again, I think it's just this defiant attitude.

The, you know, basically acting the president from the president to Saki, you know, it's just saying this is just what withdrawal is. This is just what withdrawal is. And the American people wanted withdrawal, so this is what they wanted, you know, kind of pitting the blame on the American people. And then also on the Afghan National National National. security forces for not defending their country. But, you know, again, for somebody who's not even, you just have to read the news kind of periodically and kind of read what's going on. The Foundation

for Defense of Democracies has great reporting on this over the many years. You should have known that the Taliban was going to take over as soon as the United States stopped providing air support and direction into these young Afghan men, you know, who were doing the ground fighting in Afghanistan. So when, when our. military and political officials say, we didn't know the Taliban was going to take over so quickly. How could you not? How could you not if you knew what was going on in Afghanistan? And so it's, bad assumptions, delusional, overly optimistic assessments, this liberal idealism about what can be accomplished in Afghanistan, all of it's compounded in this disaster that's unfolding now.

I do think it goes back to that idealistic and just unrealistic worldview that they have about human nature, about our foreign enemies. And just, I don't know, this idea that diplomacy is the only way to accomplish peace and just really, it goes back to something I think is even more of a corrupt view that America is. is really the cause of a lot of bad and corruption and evil and violence in the world. And if America just withdraws its presence from these places, then they'll go back to living these happy and peaceful lives. And obviously that's not the case. I do see what I think is a false dichotomy playing out, even just on the conservative side,

that, okay, it's either that we withdraw or a forever war. And I think a lot of people left and right don't have a taste for what they call a forever war. But obviously we're not liking what we're seeing with this either. Was there some kind of in between? I mean, I know we retain a presence in other places like South Korea. So like what could have been another possibility in between those two polar opposites that could have maybe mitigated some of the things that we're seeing right now? That is such a great question.

This is something, you know, I've always thought it was a wrong assessment of the American people to say that they're just, they don't want war or they're, you know, or they're tired of war. That's, it's an, it's inaccurate. The American people, I think, rightly want to win wars. They want a conclusive war. They don't want liberal projects that are open-ended with ever-expanding scopes of mission with no plan to end it. And so that, they're completely right. So what I have been arguing for is that the nation building, that is all of this, you know, these criteria that unless the Afghan government supports a full inclusive government that gives women full rights. I mean, these very liberal aspirations should never have been part of the mission set.

What we should have done, Allie, was just we went in there to kill Al-Qaeda and bin Laden and his whole crew. those responsible for harboring them leading up to 9-11. And when you do that, when you determine to do that to go kill your enemy, that means you have to make sure that if they're going in other places outside the border, like in Pakistan, you still get them and you still hold that regime accountable. We did not hold Pakistan accountable. Okay, so you can go back through. You can look at all the errors that we made.

What I argued was at this point now, 2021, we keep Bagram. We keep Bogram to be doing counterterrorism operations and to continue to stay in the ear of the Afghan forces that we're doing the dying and the fighting on behalf of their own country and their own people. And we continue to protect our own people by ensuring that we have a counterterrorism president. It wasn't just us. It was NATO there. NATO was operating with us too. That way, if you had a statesman politician that could say the American people were right, this liberal internationalism idea, this unending operation. creating this ideal in Afghanistan. We're done doing it. We're going to have 2,500 troops, fewer than the number of people that were guarding the

capital, Ali, against these supposed right-wing extremists. And we're just going to hold this base that the American people invested in and paid for and our weapons. And we're going to kill terrorists. We're going to hold the line. And we're not going to cede this base to now China, you know, which is adjacent to Afghanistan and whoever else wants to have access to all of our equipment in this base. We could have done that.

But there was nobody that was able to articulate that and to explain to the American people. The American people, I think, would have, you know, been supportive of that. But this really has been a neglected war. People have kind of had this, you know, just this, these two options, and that's it in their mind. And then again, you have leaders that rather than just doing the right thing are determined to just look at some sort of polling, which, by the way, speaking of polling, Joe Biden's approval rating is just in freefall right now, almost. I mean, it's plummeting because of his handling of Afghanistan. That's why it's always best.

You do the right thing. You listen to the American people, but then you do the right thing. It's something that this president wasn't willing to do. No. Well, there's no courage and there's also no moral courage, it seems like. And I think that even though not everyone is a foreign policy expert, no one, especially, I would say, the conservative side, especially Middle America, who is tuning into all this, we know that we don't like to be humiliated. We don't like to lose. We know that we should not be losing to the Taliban and we shouldn't

be taking cues or taking orders from the Taliban. We know what it means to prioritize American citizens. So that's why I think that the whole message of like empathetic Joe, compassionate Joe is going to come along and bring normalcy to the United States. It just didn't work on a lot of people who maybe even didn't love Donald Trump because at least what they saw on Donald Trump with some kind of strength. They saw that he went and got auto warm beer.

They saw that he went and got Andrew Brunson. They saw that, you know, he killed Soleimani or he ordered the killing of Soleimani and then posted American flag afterwards. And maybe that's not the most profound understanding of foreign policy. But Americans, average Americans can tell the different They can tell the difference between someone like Joe Biden who will not take questions, who when he goes a little bit off script or when someone asks a question that he wasn't briefed on before or that he didn't get beforehand, just literally turns his back and walks away.

People see the difference between those two things. They're willing to forgive a lot of faults that Trump had in order to have a leader that they feel like they can trust, that, oh, okay, if something goes bad for them when they're abroad, they feel like Trump's administration would come rescue them and stand up for them and things like that. That kind of stuff matters. That kind of stuff matters. I just don't know if Joe Biden is going to,

I don't know if he's going to be able to salvage this at all. No. And when you think about it, too, that the preciousness of American citizenship, it really goes hand in glove with the open borders concept of liberal Democrats, too. If you don't believe in borders and control of your own borders, you necessarily can't appreciate the significance of American citizenship, of who we are

as a people, what we've bought into to participate as a society and as citizens of this country building a community together. If you don't appreciate that, then it makes perfect sense that there isn't this special attention to American citizens abroad. But there was that Iranian, that Iranian American citizen who the Iranians tried to kidnap to kill recently, a few weeks. to go. Right.

And it was almost like the Biden administration, you know, it was the strangest muted response from the Biden administration on that. That was major. She is an American citizen. And you know, Americans, this is the first, the primary responsibility of our elected leaders is to provide for the security of the American people. And it's just Joe Biden is, he is out to lunch on this, ready to move on to the next thing, hoping that the media is just going to let this stuff.

die and then go on and give them positive coverage. I think that really this is sort of the emperor has no clothes. We can all see what kind of leader he is and what he isn't. And talking about a crisis of confidence in your leader. I mean, I can sense that with my family and my friends back home in the rural Midwest. I mean, people are just feeling totally deflated. And again, it's that sense of just feeling unnerved that we're sort of we have no captain on this ship.

Yeah. Not one who cares about American citizens above all. And when people are hearing that, okay, not everyone coming in is going to be vetted. We already know that the border is wide open. I read a very sad report the other day of just how demoralized our border patrol agents are because they're not actually able to do their jobs. And I imagine that there are some troops that feel the same way that they are. kind of their hands are behind their back and what they're actually able to do.

They feel like they have not been empowered to actually protect the United States. That's got to be a hard feeling for them. It's a hard feeling for Americans when you feel like, okay, well, Joe Biden seems to have the priorities of every other country at heart except for the United States. And people really hated when Donald Trump said America first. They said that's bigoted, that's wrong, that's, you know, nationalistic. whatever. But I would say that's, you know, isn't that more compassionate than America last? Like, don't you want a president that loves your country, loves its citizens, and is going to

fight for them? Isn't that what you want in a leader or a mayor or a governor wherever? And so I think, I mean, maybe there's some blessing to see the polar opposite of putting America first. Like, you see the damage of America last. And I hate to see it. It breaks my heart. I wanted Joe Biden to do a good job as president, even though I didn't vote for him. But unfortunately, I'm not sure that this is going to be recovered. No. And the other thing about this concept of putting your own people first, especially in the case of the United States, is it is better for other countries. When the United States shores up its sovereignty, acts with decisiveness, has good plans, understands how to prioritize.

I mean, you can just see now the fallout from NATO. allies, I mean, Australia, the UK, the French, I mean, these are countries that are that are visibly upset. Their leaders are upset the Germany with how the United States has handled this. So, you know, you want to put the United States first if you're the American president, and that is helpful for everybody else to understand what's happening. This haphazard confusing, it doesn't even make any sense, some of these decisions he's making. It's like a collapse of the West when you pull the United States out, it really just leaves a vacuum there for for authoritarian to step in, whether it's a Taliban in Afghanistan. But now you've got, again,

China adjacent to Afghanistan, the Russians, of course, and the Iranians. Pakistan is going to, you know, be in a better position now. So, I mean, I get this sense to the other point I think is important to make too, that I can feel this frustration with the American people. These really are red state voters who have done a lot of the volunteering to go into Afghanistan, to doing the war fighting, and have come back as veterans. So there's this other dynamic that's going on where it really feels like it's Middle America that has been betrayed, you know, back to your point, Americans want to win. We want to do the right thing.

We don't want to look like cowards. We don't want to be cowards. And we don't want to have the reputation of just abandoning our responsibilities. And so I, you know, I just think that, and you can see with moderate Democrats and even more liberal Democrats are sort of don't know how to even respond to this. I don't see a lot of surrogates in the media doing a lot of defense of this administration, except to say, hey, it's a big airlift. It's only a big airlift in this short amount of time because of the disaster of the decisions. Yeah. So, you know, I think that we are going to see, you know, this might be it for the Biden administration.

This really might be it. I don't, I certainly don't see him having a successful foreign policy agenda being carried through for the remainder of his term. Yeah. People keep saying they're going to take, this is going to enable them to take on China. I mean, I don't see that at all. I don't see that at all. But I do want to, I don't, I mean, maybe you can explain to me that perspective. but I want to hear you talk about a little bit more how America withdrawing from Afghanistan

is actually going to empower Russia, empower China, who we already see kind of forming this very dark and scary alliance there. Like, what does this mean? Isn't there some kind of trade route also that is now opened up between China and Afghanistan? What's going on there? Well, so the argument is from those who say we have to just focus doggedly on China and Afghanistan is not a priority theater. It's a disaster. We had, you know, et cetera, all of the, all the reasons we know why Afghanistan was so hard challenging with liberals in charge especially. But they say now this is

going to free up resources to be able to take on China. The problem with that view is, again, I was of the mind that we should just keep bagram, keep bagram and just do counterterrorism and hold that space because it keeps other countries from getting through Afghanistan, but also prevents them from using the rare earth minerals that are in Afghanistan, all of these things that the Chinese are going to want. But also having that massive sprawling air base with NATO operating there adjacent to China. It's the closest land base right next to China in that region that we just gave up. So I think even if you understand that China is the sort of existential threat to the American way of life in the United States as we know it, you still wouldn't want to give up that

invaluable sprawling air base and all of our weapons. So I made the point earlier too. If you care about those countries, we just gave up billions of dollars of weapons we left in country that even if the Taliban can't figure out how to operate them, there's other actors around there who do, who'd be willing to pay for them and to operate them too. And the other thing, too, Allie, you know, we, if we have a huge massive terrorism problem again, massive instability in the Middle East, you know, Biden comes in, tries to strike a deal with the Iranians like we know that he wants to. Al-Qaeda, by the way, is being harbored by the Iranians. They're there, too. You do all of these terrible policies, deal, you know, turn over Afghanistan

to the Taliban, deal with the Iranians. You're going to have massive instability in the Middle the terrorism problem is going to be all flared up again, terrorism threats here at home, that does not enable us to be freed up to look at the primary existential problem, which comes from China, and then the little brother, Russia. And so sometimes you have to cover down on areas that are not primary theaters so that you can spend more energy in time working on the thing that's the biggest threat. So I'm having a hard time with that argument. People keep saying this is going to be good for China, but I'm not, it's kind of a neat idea in theory, but in the real world, I just don't see that.

They're saying it's good for China as in it's good for our fight against China, is what you're saying. Right. We actually do think that it's good for China in that they see destabilization in that region and their access to Afghanistan is good for them and is empowering to them. And certainly, even just the. even just the general weakness that is displayed by America, any kind of weakness demonstrated by the United States is good for China,

is good for our enemies. And they've already put out a statement China saying, when, I think they said when, which was pretty stunning, when war breaks out in Taiwan, understand that the United States isn't going to come to your aid. I mean, that's scary. And they're probably right, right? Well, so that's, so right.

When I was saying people think that it's going to be good for us to focus on China if we get out of Afghanistan. Right. But in fact, it's actually going to be good for China if we totally surrender the whole region to the Taliban. No, I knew that the Chinese were going to use this as a propaganda boom, which they did. And, you know, they said, look, Hong Kongers, you who are fighting for democracy in Hong Kong still, you who are still, you know, wanting to protect your own separate nation in Taiwan. Look at what the Americans do to their friends and partners. Now, of course, the argument would be, okay, but Afghanistan, this was not a full blossom democracy like Taiwan. It's not as critical for American preeminence as Taiwan is.

It's really important. So it's different. But again, you know, we're not Vulcans that go strictly by logic. We're people. And so the deterrence relies on what the adversary believes you are willing to do. And so maybe they're wrong. Maybe we would come to the aid of Taiwan. But if they think we won't, that means they could act aggressively against Taiwan,

and then we could have a war over Taiwan in the next few years with Biden president because of his demonstration of a lack of resolve and commitment to do the right thing. So I absolutely think that the – and then our allies and partners, you're already seeing officials from ally partners saying we have got to start thinking about how we can operate as a European Union and as Europeans apart from the United States. You're seeing statements like that because everybody is spooked about how Biden carried this out. So when you have allies doubting you and then you have your adversaries doubting you, I mean, you've got a recipe for a lot of bad calculations that can, again, weakness is provocative.

We're going to, you know, these actions you can actually provoke more conflict rather than have peace, which is what we all want. And what we see is that it's not just bad for the United States, but like you mentioned earlier, it's bad for the world. The weak America is bad for the world. And that just bucks against this liberal idea that, again, that America has only been an imperialistic force for evil that needs to be taken down a notch. That's part of what Obama demonstrated in his apology tour, that he really believed that if we just kind of put America on the same level as everyone else, then everyone will just kind of be peaceful and get along. If we just appease countries like Iran, then everyone will finally just get along. That's not, that's just not

true. Like, we're seeing really a clash of worldviews. We're seeing something that the Biden administration will never understand, I don't think, which is a clash of theology. Like, there are theological differences, obviously, between the Taliban and what the United States believes, which is why, I mean, they don't understand that. And that's evidenced by the fact that they're saying ridiculous things like, oh, you know, they're going to, we're telling that we sent them a strongly worded letter, I think the UN ambassador said that we're sending them a strongly worded letter that they better recognize the rights of women and girls. The Taliban, they don't believe in rights. Like that is a Judeo-Christian ethic upon which the West and specifically the United States was founded. but liberal ideology really has a hard time, I think, like seeing the difference in worldviews,

the difference in theology and that like the answer to these things has to be strength. And that's sometimes the only language that they understand that people, like that our enemies understand anyway. Do you agree with that? No, I think that's right. And then I also saw this quote from an advisor to one of our military commanders who he said, you know, at no point over the last several years, is paraphrasing here, did we think that religion was actually motivating the Taliban? Okay. Which I think, how is that possible?

How is it possible that you didn't think that they were motivated by the thing they say they're motivated by, which is an incredibly totalitarian, austere interpretation of Sharia law? I mean, this is, they just sort of thought that, look, you know, we'll just get them busy with jobs and we'll make some schools. We'll teach them about the LGBTQ agenda and everybody will move towards a more inclusive society. I mean, it almost, it makes you crazy the more you think about it.

I mean, I remember you, I used to work on the Judiciary Committee and in the Congress, and I remember the debates over whether or not we should Mirandize terrorists we caught on the battlefield or what, you know, how do we treat, do we give inmates in Guantanamo Bay the same rights as we would, criminal defendants here in the United States.

I mean, those are the kinds of, you know, conversations that Americans were having, and it goes back to the point you just made about a clash of worldviews, about what it is that we're doing in the value of American citizenship and what a country is versus what is this sort of just, I don't even know what the alternative is. It's just this universalist idea based on liberal values that they think they can.

can just sort of impose on everybody else and that we're, you know, that there are really no countries and the same sorts of constitutional privileges that we have here are going to apply to terrorists abroad. Yes. So it really is a clash of fundamental assumptions that liberals hold, I think, which makes them so incredibly dangerous when it comes to U.S. national security and foreign policy. Yeah. And there really wasn't even a debate leading up to the presidential election on these issues. Yeah. It's like they think that like John Lennon's imagine could be real life. Like if we had no religion or we didn't acknowledge people's religion, if we just didn't have any countries, that everyone would just get along, what we're seeing, what we've always seen.

History tells us this, that that goes against human nature, that nations are good. The existence of nations and borders were actually God's idea, that they're good for human beings, that they actually can lead to safety and to security, and that it is right, and I would say righteous for the elected officials that we have put in charge to represent us and to protect our country to prioritize those borders and to prioritize that safety and security and citizenship. So you're so right. It goes back to those very fundamental questions of not just right and wrong and good and evil and what that looks like, but also what is a country? What does it mean to be an American citizen? Do any of those things matter? Of course, I think that they do. I'm

not so sure that this administration does. Just to close this out, like, where do you think that we, where do you think that we go from here? Like, do you think that the American citizens and the SIVs there will finally be rescued? Or do you think we just see disaster after disaster? And we truly do, like you said, at the beginning, into this hostage situation. And if so, how long, how long until the media stopped talking about that? And we just forget it.

Well, I do, I mean, like I said, I think we're barreling towards a massive hostage situation. We still have several thousand Americans in country who want out of Afghanistan. So no matter what, we will have a hostage situation come August 31st. My hope is you're still going to have sort of private contractors being hired to try to do these, continue these rescue operations for Christian missionaries and those who are still stuck far outside and far away from Kabul Airport. So my hope is we'll still continue over time, sort of like an underground railroad, get these people out, and that they can just hide and just continue to pray for their safety in the meantime, in the meantime, until they can be fully rescued. But I don't think we avoid the hostage situation. And I'm really concerned, Allie, just getting towards that September 11th anniversary about the potential of really terrible bad things happening for the Taliban, rubbing it in our.

faces that they've kicked out the West and that they had Allah on their side all along. And that that's still going to come. And I just pray that our leaders can come up with something to say to all of the troops who gave limbs and time and their family members. Some of them gave the ultimate price to say something to the family that can be a cell. But I don't know. I think this is one of the darkest times that I've ever seen since I've been doing national security policy. And it's just not a whole lot of silver lining to it. Do you think,

and this is a terrible question to end on, but I think it's probably the one that's pressing into people's minds. Does this increase the terror threat at home? Is that what you're kind of alluding to when you talk about the Taliban rubbing it in our faces on 9-11? I mean, I think that, I do think that the terrorism threat is going up. You already had General Millie. saying that the terrorism threat is going to go up. That was always the risk that that was going to happen as we got, you know, withdrew from Afghanistan. But because of the way this went through and we don't have a plan for conducting counterterrorism operations, all those Afghans in country too that we were working with that we abandoned, those were the individuals that

we were hoping to continue to be our eyes and ears to provide intelligence. And they're all gone. It's a total collapse. So we have nothing in country right now. But what I'm concerned is that we're going to see terrible things happening on camera of American hostages or stives that are still in Afghanistan on September 11th. I certainly pray that that's not the case, but this is the Taliban. These are jihadists. These are militant jihadists. And it doesn't matter how much Biden officials try to talk us into how they're into this existential crisis. And they have to decide what role they want to play in the international community. We know what role they want to play.

They've been playing it for decades. They are jihadists, and they wanted to establish this Muslim society governed by an austere, you know, really harsh understanding of Sharia law, and they got it. And so we're going to see their true colors, I think, unless they make the calculation that they're still going to try this ruse and try to get more concessions and things. But apart from that, I mean, I'm sort of bracing for the worst-case scenario and praying that that's not what happens. Yeah. And I want Americans to be cognizant to that I've seen a couple statements coming from the Taliban, one about, oh, well, Facebook in America, it doesn't respect free speech either.

And then I saw another statement today that apparently the Taliban says that they're going to fight climate change. What I want to encourage people who on either side of the aisle who are listening or watching, don't take the bait. That's bait. They are trying to, all of our enemies, badly and they've been successful, I think, in a lot of ways, want to divide the United States. Obviously, they don't care about the climate. Obviously, they don't care about free speech. It is a way to drive a wedge between both sides of American citizens. China does it. I think Russia does it with their own kind of misinformation. Of course, China even put out a video the other day, like touting critical race theory and anti-racism. It's bait. They all. They all,

They want that to further weaken the United States. A weak United States is bad for the world. It's good for them, and they know that. So one thing we can do, even though I think Americans are powerless in some ways when it comes to all of this, is one, to pay attention, but also don't take the bait of our enemies in trying to say, oh, well, you know, at least they have a point about whatever X, Y, Z issue they are saying. No, that's true.

point about. The other thing that they're doing, not only they try to divide us, they're mocking us. I'm always amazed at how well the enemy they pay attention to the United States. And they think our ideas of equality under the law, due process, free speech, women being treated with dignity and respect and provided the same kinds of equality under the law as men. They think all of that is ridiculous. Yeah. And they mock us. So they're mocking us. And the other thing that there are other reason they do it, it works with liberals who have these assumptions that they are just like us. Yeah. And that they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they even again, because you said, you know, Jen Saki said that they're, they're going to see what kind of, they have to make a

decision about what role they want to play. Joe Biden said that, you know, the Taliban has been providing safe passage. That is so, it's just not what's happening. It's just not true. It's delusional. It's like he's just imagining because it's not, because we're not seeing beheadings on camera right now, they think things are going at least, you know, better than, better than they thought they might over the last couple of days. And, and so it's just this, I mean, you're going to see the Taliban being legitimized by the UN here at some point. You already saw some talks like maybe it's possible that they could be on some sort of panel for it for women's rights and improve right and why wouldn't they if Saudi Arabia is or has been I mean the UN human rights

council is one of the most farcical institutions in the universe's existence I mean they put people like that um on the human rights council it's crazy it's crazy and it also just shows you too just like the the rot of these international institutions which is why you know I was actually in favor of all of the withdrawing that the Trump administration did out of the WHO, out of the human rights council, out of the, because these, you know, this argument that it's better if we have them, they're totally corrupted. They no longer serve American interests. Their understanding of right and wrong is distorted and backwards. And so at some point, you know, I'm for, I'm for conservative internationalism, which is you can reach out for partners. We're going to

need partners and allies as we try to deter China for sure and Russia and Iran and all these other adversaries. You need partners and allies, but you need to have alliances and partnerships and these institutions that are grounded in reality and that serve the purpose of which they are intended. They're not thoroughly corrupted and that served American interests. And so it's good to withdraw from thoroughly corrupted deals and agreements and international organizations. organizations and to redo them if we need to or just to can it if we if we don't. And so that's the other thing too is it's really again, you know, I really feel like this is like the Afghanistan issue. The last week is like a microcosm of everything that's wrong

with liberal foreign policy. It's unfolding before our eyes. And I hope that the, you know, American people watching this kind of find a new interest, a reinvigorated interest in understanding national security politics and press their elected leaders on these issues. because the instincts of most Americans are right about right and wrong. And the liberals in foreign policy are so disconnected from where most Americans are in their very naive and idealistic view of how the United States should act in the world. Yep. And I actually think it's a microcosm of liberal policy in general.

And I always say this on this show that progressivism. I don't want to say progressives because I don't think it's true of every individual who identifies as a progressive, but progressivism as an ideology, this postmodernism that it takes on, that there is no absolute objective truth or morality that kind of with different cultures, there's different kinds of rights and wrongs and who are we to judge? Because basically what America has done is morally equivalent to the Taliban. I mean, you've seen some crazy people on Twitter say things like that over the past week. That kind of crazy postmodernism, moral relativism,

that is wrapped up in progressivism, it gets human nature wrong. It gets sin nature wrong. It misunderstands, I think, how the world works. And so when it plays out in things like defund the police or some kind of the radical forms of bail reform that we've seen or in foreign policy, we see that the truth about human nature comes crashing down in a very chaotic way. Human nature is like a beach ball. You can try to push it underwater.

It's going to keep popping back up. And like you said, I hope this reinvigorates people into not just understanding what's going on in foreign policy, but also to take a second look about our assumptions, our assumptions about the world, how the world works, that there is a right and wrong. You can't look at the pictures of our military or servicemen and women who are nurturing and holding these sweet babies over in Afghanistan. I know that's not technically their job, but that's what they're doing because they're compassionate human beings. and then compare that to what we're seeing, the videos coming out of the Taliban, beating people and beating women and say that there is any moral equivalence or that there is no objective reality. There is no right and wrong. There is. And allow this to open our eyes to that and start thinking a little bit. It's caused me to think a little bit harder about what I think about foreign policy, something that I never really thought affected me all that much. Now I'm realizing it very much does. So I hope that's the case like you said for everyone else as well. Yeah, I hope so. And back to that image of the, you know, of the soldier holding, I saw one of him just holding as little baby girl. And, you know, he, he understands the preciousness of that little girl's life. And the mother knew that if she could just get that her little daughter into his arms, that he would be safe. And so she can even see it intuitively about, you know, what's right. And it just breaks your heart. It really does. But just continue to watch the situation and hold these. I'm very encouraged.

There is one silver lining I can find here. It is that the media has been all over this. And really pulling the curtain back. And so I am so thankful for that. And I hope they just doggedly stay on it and continue to cover all the various ways and don't let Jen Sacky off the hook. every single time Joe Biden wants to talk about the next lockdown for coronavirus or masking children. That's where he wants to pivot for sure.

He wants to pivot there, but the question should stay on. I don't want to pass a single more bill, you know, one more bill until all the Americans are out of Afghanistan. You know, I'm going to drill you on that. You know, we shouldn't be doing anything else until our people are back and then, you know, and then pressing them if they try to turn their eyes off of the crisis that we're. we're going to continue to witness unfolding in Afghanistan. Yep, absolutely. If we had the media this honest on everything, I truly think that wouldn't solve all

of our problems, but I think it would unite the country. I think that it would wipe away any delusion that anyone has, that the state can save you, that any politician is your savior. I think that it would solve a lot of problems. If we saw this kind of honesty coming from the media on every, you know, on every crisis that happens for politicians, you know, authored by politicians on different sides of the aisle. All right. Thank you so much.

Thank you for taking the time to come and talk to us and to break this all down for us. I really, really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Allie. Appreciate it. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze, TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.