Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 485 | Can a 9/11 Survivor Forgive Al Qaeda? | Guest: Sen. Brian Birdwell

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

Today we're talking to Texas Senator Brian Birdwell, a survivor of the 9/11 terror attack on the Pentagon. Sen. Birdwell recounts his struggle for survival on that day and shares some of his thoughts on what's going on in the current cultural and political climate. WARNING: Part of Sen. Birdwell's story includes graphic details of the injuries he sustained on 9/11. --- Today's Sponsors: Patriot Mobile has the courage to stand up for America, for Christian values, & our Constitution, plus they have special discounts for veterans and First Responders. Go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE to get your free activation with the offer code 'ALLIE'. Raycon work earbuds boast a 32-hour battery life, plus they're super comfortable, with a soft velvet finish & memory foam ear tips. Right now, go to BuyRaycon.com/ALLIEWORK to get 15% off your order! Good Ranchers has traveled the US, meeting with actual farmers that raise the livestock to ensure the product they're sending you is the very best American craft beef and better-than-organic chicken. Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE & use code 'ALLIE' at checkout to save 20% on each box of mouth-watering meals, plus get an additional $20 off & free express shipping! --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Thursday. We have a treat for you today. On Saturday is the 20-year anniversary that seems like a strange word to use, but it has been 20 years on Saturday since 9-11.

and today we are talking to Texas State Senator Brian Birdwell, who was in the Pentagon on 9-11, suffered very severe injuries from that. He is going to tell us in detail the experience that he had that day, how his faith in Christ carried him through that day and the years to come. He's also going to tell us what kind of perspective that has given him about this country and in particular the things that have gone on in and with Afghanistan over the past few weeks. And so he has a very gripping story for us to hear. He has some lessons for us to learn.

He has some reminders for us to hold on to. But he also has some encouragement for us to cling to. You will hear him give hope for America and the belief that America is still an exceptional place with liberty that is worth fighting for. So I'm very excited for you to listen to this conversation. You're going to love it. You're probably going to get emotional. That's okay. This is an emotional subject and an emotional day for sure. So I'm so looking forward to hearing what you guys think about this interview. So please let me know. Without further ado, here is Senator Brian Birdwell. Senator Birdwell, thank you so much for joining us today. Can you tell everyone who may not know

who you are and what you do? Well, I'm Lieutenant Colonel retired, United States Army, Brian Birdwell, but also now serving as State Senator Brian Birdwell, serving the people of Senate District 22 in the State Senate, anchored primarily in Waco and McClendon County, but ranging all the way from Tarrant County to a little south of Waco. So I've got what we call the Heart of Texas District in the State Senate. Yes. And the reason why we are having you here, for this particular episode is because I want you to relay the story of you being in the Pentagon on 9-11. I know you've told this story many times, but as we were talking about before, we turned on the cameras, not only are there people out there who have never heard your story.

There are many people listening to this podcast, watching this podcast, who are not alive on 9-11. So I would love for you to just take us back to that day, tell us exactly what happened. Yeah. I was serving as the as an aide to a flag officer in my staff directorate on the Army staff. We had an E-ring office. The E-ring is the outermost ring of the Pentagon. The A-ring is the innermost ring. And of course, there's there's five rings. My, my partner as an aide, Colonel Williams, was our aid to our flag officer, our senior flag officer, Major General Van Antwerp. I was the aide to the deputy, an SS5, Jan Minig, SES is the Senior Executive Service, but a two-star equivalent, but a civilian flag officer as opposed to a uniform flag officer. Colonel Williams got General Van Antwerp, Ms. Menig out of the building over to the Double Tree Hotel for a conference that our staff director at was hosting. And Sandy, Cheryl, and I settled in for what we thought would be a slow day with both the principal and the deputy out. We'll get some of those things done that we needed to get done. Sandy's daughter, Sam, worked up in New York, and at about 9 o'clock called Sandy and said, hey,

mom, turned the TV on the world. Trachian has been hit by a plane, and we did what you and every other American was doing that day, whether it was, you know, the radio on the drive into work, already at work on TV or TV at home, whatever it was, went into Ms. Menning's office, turned the TV on and see the North Tower, first tower hit with that huge gaping hole, the black smoke pouring out of the of the tower and hearing the newscasters, you know, what a terrible, tragic accident this was. And shortly thereafter on live TV, we'd watch Flight 175 crash into the South Tower, and that would confirm that neither were accidents. This was not a normal day in our nation's life.

And actually, Sandy and Cheryl and I, we knelt down and just let a quick prayer that, you know, we love our first responders, but Lord, you're the one that's going to be doing the bulk of the life-saving today. When the prayer was over with, we continued to watch events unfold, no thought that we were next. I'd had my morning caffeine jolt at 7 o'clock that morning, and so I needed to step out and go to the men's restroom. I told Sandy and Cheryl I'd be back momentarily. Those were the last words that I would speak to my two coworkers. When I stepped out into the E-ring hallway to go to the men's restroom,

I actually walked through that part of the building that is impacted and crumbles 27 minutes after impact. So I walked through what would be the impact point. The men's restrooms at the intersection of the fourth quarter and the, the E-ring. The corridors are the spokes that connect the rings. So I take a quick left turn, pass the elevator, hit the men's restroom, come out. I'm now in front of the elevator, about to turn right to go back through what will be the impact point when Flight 77 is a little to crashed into the building. So I'm 15 to 20 yards to a straight line distance from where the nose of the aircraft, the nose of the fuselage makes impact with the building. And so by it's the

Lord's grace that I'm the only survivor in the e-ring at the crash site from an 80-ton jet coming through the building and hitting the building at 530 miles an hour and still has about 3,000 gallons of fuel of its 5,000 pound load. And I mean, it's, I spent 20 years in the military and most of my career has been as a heavy forces guy, big artillery, big tanks. I've been around a lot of loud things in my life, but nothing as loud as that plane making impact. In hearing the sound, there's that nanosecond where I think bomb. Right. And I go from a well-lit hallway in charge of my faculties to an earthly hell of the fire,

the smoke, the choking, the survival attempt. The impact blows me across the, the corridor. I am set ablaze, and there is a yellow, orange-ish arch in front of me, and in the periphery is just blackness, the only lights, the ambient glow of the flame. I'll experience three pains and emotions in that, those seconds, minute or two that seem to last in eternity. First is the physical pain of the burns. I was burned on 60% of my body, 40% of my body is a third degree burn. Third degree means you've lost the entirety of all three layers of skin.

My arms from fingertip to armpit on both arms are completely. circumferentially grafted back legs. My eye sockets had to be to be rebuilt. My ears are artificial cartilage with my own skin grafted over it. My most immediate life-threatening injury is the inhalation injury of what I'm breathing in. The air-slice jet fuel, the slick, oily smoke from an inefficiently burning petroleum fire. And as I'm struggling to survive, the trying to get to my feet, the impact and the concussion of an 80-town bomb has destroyed my sense of balance in my inner ear. I never do get to my feet. I can get to all fours.

But I come to that realization. I mean, we're all created with that zest for living, that desire for life. But there came that moment that in that struggle to survive, that I came to the reconciliation of, that this is how I'm going to die. However horrible and ghastly it is, this is how the Lord's calling me into eternity. And so I did what we in the military are never trained to do. I surrendered.

I gave up, collapsed to the floor. And in that moment before surrender, it really is the definition of terrorism, that that sense of panic that grabs your heart when you realize that you are facing a life-threatening, injury and you cannot escape the source and the results of that injury. Because I, you know, could navigate. There's that darkness, the blackness, the inability to which ways of safety, which

ways danger, which all those things culminate in that feeling of the hopelessness of your situation. So as I collapsed to the floor, waited to die, there was the third. element of this death and that's it's the permanency and the finality of death that that morning when I said goodbye to Mel and Matt you know I'd have to leave the house at about to catch the bus 52530 kiss Mel on the cheek you just look at your 12 year old you don't wake them up at five in the morning and so I just looked at Matt went out the door and if I'd have known that morning I was going out to what was surely my death, I would have said goodbye with a greater rigor

than I did that morning. As I lay there waiting for that feeling of the soul, departing the body, never came. And even in my, you know, our sinful nature as humans created by the Lord, that my sense of patience, it's like, okay, Lord, let's get on with this thing. And he had other things in mind as I opened my eyes. with that feeling not coming. I could see down at the distance toward the A-ring. And if you're like a ship at sea, you can't see the light bulb of the lighthouse,

but you can see the reflection off the surface of the ocean. The lights are blown out near me. Now, way down, they're still intact and operating, but I don't see the light because the smoke is filling up the ceiling of the corridor, but I can see the reflection off the tall floor. So I use the wall that I've been blown up against, and as a third and fourth point of contact to stagger my way down the hallway. Allie, I don't want to be gratuitously graphic.

It's okay. But it's just, it's best to say that I am terribly indisposed. I've only got portions of my clothing still intact, my leather belt, my shoes. The front of my shirt is still there but covered in my own blood. I've been skinned alive. There's chunks hanging off the arms. I can feel my eyes already swelling because of the in the burn as that part of the body begins to swell. The blinking, the blinking is thick for lack of a, when I'm blinking my eyes, I can feel how swollen they are.

I staggered down the hallway, 25, 30 yards in this condition, and four men, Bill McKinnon, Roy Wallace, John Davies, and Chuck Knoblock come out of the B-Ree. doors into the fourth quarter. They weren't looking for me specifically. They were looking to get to some of their co-workers. The plane had actually cut their, as it passes through the D and the C ring, cuts their co-workers that are in those rings, cuts them in half in dividing their section. They come out into that B-ring hallway to try to get down there. Roy sees me coming out of the smoke. And when I saw Roy back in 2017 at one of the Pentagon Memorial ceremonies, this is the most gruesome thing he's ever seen of watching a burned alive human being walking out of the smoke. In my exhaustion of having covered 25 to 30 yards in that condition

and then the relief of knowing that I'm about to subordinate myself to whatever my comrades and arms are going to do for me. And I just collapsed in front of Roy. and again, I don't want to be gratuitous here. This is not a place to tarry and wait for medical care to get to me. The crash site's just 50 yards away, smoke's filling up the hallway, the facilities managers of the building have closed the fire door between the A and the B ring. Had Bill, Roy, Chuck, and John not come out of the B ring doors into the corridor, I assume that I would have gotten down to the fire door and then sat down there and either died of my injuries or die to smoke inhalation because there's no way to open that only a fireman on the other side can open that door.

Bill Roy, Chuck, and John in their haste to move me, and a haste not in the sense of urgency may be the better word. Their urgency to move me. Each grab a limb and give that first exertion to pick me up, but I don't come with them. They pull chunks off of me and I begin screaming at them to leave me alone because that's my first insight into what's ahead of me as a, though I don't know I'm going to survive this, what's ahead of me in the medical care being a burn survivor. Touching me is absolutely agonizing. And so what the four of them actually do, Chuck is the biggest of the four of them.

Chuck rolls me over on the, touching, like I said, touching me is agonizing. Chuck rolls me over on the left-hand side and then forcibly puts his arms, the wrist and the forearm, underneath my left torso. Again, chunks that, but essentially Bill Roy, Chuck and John, instead of grasping me or gripping each other's arms like they're shaking hands with my body weight resting on their connected arms, they will carry me through back through that B-ring door into an access way into the A-ring. they'll take me down to where the intersection of the fifth and six quarters meet the A-ring. And that's where I'll receive my first medical care from a great Air Force doctor named John Baxter. And thanks to all those Air Force folks out there because usually saying great in Air Force in the same sentence is really difficult for me. But the normal service banter. But Dr. Baxter is an Air Force flight surgeon.

He's trying to get, he's got his go bag with him. He's coming down the stairs with all the other folks that are coming. coming down where Bill Roy, Chuck, and John set me has essentially become a hasty triage site. There's four or five other people that have been put there. When Dr. Baxter comes down the stairs, he sees some of us that are there. He immediately comes to me to begin to treat me. He asked me, you know, my name, that's how Bill knows it's me. because Bill McKin and I, we had been classmates at Commandant General Staff College at Fort Leiborth.

But, of course, certainly I recognize Bill, but Bill doesn't recognize me. I mean, that's, again, I'm not trying to be gratuitous. I'm a charbroiled American. And Dr. Baxter will ask me if I haven't, if there's any injuries that I have that he cannot see. I said, I don't think so. I have control of my mental faculties. I do not have control of my physical. I'm trembling violently.

Dr. Baxter, the only place that he can see, because he's going to give me a morphine shot to get the shock under control and then also put an IV in me. The only place he can do that is he takes my leather shoes off that were protecting my feet because the rest of my clothes provided no protection. So the sock above the trim of the leather shoe is gone. But the sock below the shoe, he takes the shoe off, what's left of the sock underneath the leather, and then puts the morphine shot into the top of the right foot, the ivy into the top of the left.

And he's doing this with Colonel David, another Air Force officer that came with him under the duress of the fire alarm is going off. I mean, it's loud as all get out. And then there are people, I mean, this is a 30,000. 32,000 people in the building. And it seems like most of them are coming out, you know, down the staircase that we're next to. So there are people jumping over me, people jumping over other people and getting out of the building. And he does this under that kind of, I mean, it's already hard enough to do an IV in a foot,

doing it under those circumstances. They did really well. While I'm in the hallway at the initial impact, those seconds and moments seemed to last an eternity. But once I'm with Dr. Baxter, Colonel David, and then a wonderful lady from the Navy, Natalie Ogletree, had grabbed her Bible when it was time to evacuate, get out of the building, she grabbed her Bible, she's coming down the stairs, sees me, she's just led to pray with me. Speaking is very difficult because of the inhalation injury. I mean, I've got the lungs of a 20-year smoker without ever having smoked a cigarette. But she's a very difficult. She's a very difficult.

reads the 91st Psalm over me. Dr. Baxter administers the treatment, writes out on the tow tag what he did, puts it on my big toe. But all of that took about 30 to 35 minutes, but it seemed to pass lickety split.

I'm eventually loaded on a bodyboard in the Pentagon, because the building's so large, kind of like the relief pitcher golf cart, that's what the ambulances are, except they're elongated. The ambulance gets to where we're, I don't know how it all happens, but the ambulance gets there. They put me on the bodyboard, load me onto the golf court.

Specialist Pena is driving and Sergeant Nimrod is my medic that's sitting next to me as my bodyboard. They get me out out to the eighth corridor exit, which is on the north side of the building that looks toward the Washington Monument. But all the ambulances, because the crash is at the fourth quarter, it's closer to go to South parking. So they end up taking me to – there's a young captain in Captain Wineland. It's his first day of work. What a day to be your first day at work. He was there to sign in. He's got to drive in a Ford Expedition.

They empty out the back of his Ford Expedition, throw me in. Jill Heisen is an Air Force medic. She's there doing her. two weeks of annual training at the D. Lorenzo Clinic, but normally she works at Georgetown. She hops in the back. Also, Major John Collison, who I knew, John helped load me in the back. Didn't know it was me he was loading, but he sees my tow tag with my name on it, and it's like, oh my God, this is Colonel Birdwell. So he hops into the back, and so I've got Captain Weinland's driving. I tease with folks at times the drive to Georgetown's what nearly killed me, not a,

DC traffic's bad. Yeah. And so we get to Georgetown. And I mean, there are so many miracles I'm passing over, Allie, but the Lord's putting the right people at the right time with the right training and circumstances for my survival. And the most seminal one is the one I'm about to describe. And that's, I'm the only casually taken to Georgetown. In fact, when Mel's getting to Georgetown, the news radio broadcasts are listing the casualty numbers at each of the respective hospitals. And as other hospital numbers are climbing, Georgetown is just one.

So I've got the entire hospital's undivided attention. But more importantly, when we get there, Dr. Williams, Georgetown is a teaching hospital because it's the hospital at the university. Dr. Williams is the attending physician and the director of medical trauma training at Georgetown. Prior to coming to Georgetown, he went through a two-year fellowship in learning how to be a train wreck doctor under the direction of Marion Jordan and James Jang. Dr. Jordan at the time was the president of the American Burn Association and the director of the Washington Hospital Center's burn unit. Dr. Jang was his deputy director, chief of research. So from the perspective of emergency room care, all the great hospitals in D.C., I've got the third best doctor in the D.C. region to address burns. And the reason that's so seminal is because when Flight 77 is crashed into the Pentagon, shortly thereafter, inside the White House situation room, Vice President Cheney will turn to Secretary of Transportation Manetta and tell him to shut down all airspace in the United States.

That means medevac helicopters are not flying. Nothing's flying in D.C. except military aircraft. And so Dr. Williams comes to the left-hand side, and my eyes are nearly swollen shut by this point. I mean, I'm just looking through little slits in my eyes, and I can see in Dr. Williams' eyes the gravity of what's going on. And as they were wheeling me in, it's like a battle drill.

There's a lot of intensity, gravity, voice commands, but no chaos. And Dr. Williams says, Brian, we're going to the best that we possibly can for you. And so I asked to do two things, because I'd been thinking about this on the drive over with John. The Lord may have answered the question of life or death in the building, but the question of life or death this day is not yet answered. And as I was wheeled in, some of the voice commands that were being said is normally if you're burned with the, if the part of the body that's burned has jewelry, ring, bracelet, necklace, as the body swells, that jewelry functions as a tourniquet and can cut blood flow off. And if you don't get to medical care, and if you don't get that removed quickly enough,

you can have an unintended amputation be required because of it. So they're talking about cutting the ring off, and I didn't want the ring cut. there was never an opportunity to call Mel. And so I asked Dr. Williams, I said, take the wedding ring off. Don't cut it. Don't destroy it. Judith Rogers, one of the OBGYN nurses that had answered the all hands-on deck call, is standing right next to Dr. Williams is to my left.

She's to Dr. Williams right, and John's just behind them in between them, Major Collison. Judith with her, I mean, I so vividly remember, she reaches with her ring, her gloved hand for the ring. My fingers look like blackened hot dogs extending from an overly well-done steak. The body melts long before gold does. She reaches for the ring, gives it a slight tug to gloves, part of the finger. Blood begins streaming out of the base of the hand, and I don't recall it hurting.

And I don't think so much because of Dr. Baxter's morphine shot, but because I'm concentrating on the dignity and the finality of the death, I know I'm dying, and saying goodbye to my wife and my son to the symbolism of that wedding ring. And I asked John and says, give that to Mel and tell her that I loved her. And then I asked Dr. Williams for the hospital chaplain,

and Chaplain Cirillo had already arrived to the right-hand side. I did not see her until my attention was drawn to her. And she just led that prayer that said, you know, Lord, as the great physician, if you've brought Brian here so that under your direction is the great physician, that Dr. Williams and the team here tend to Brian and Brian survives, will salute that flag and move out with that mission. But if you've brought Brian here so that under the care and compassion of his fellow Americans, you call him quietly into eternity.

We'll salute that flag too. And when that prayer was over with, it was with the strength not of a soldier, but as a believer in Christ, that I could look at Dr. Williams and very laboredly say, let's get on with it, resting in the comfort of who was in charge of my eternity

and who was in charge of my life. And I remember them, when that was done, the feeling of my head being tilted back because they're going to innovate, me. And the thing that I will most vividly remember is that mask going over my face because it's the last thing I'm going to see, tilting my head back, and then I'm rendered unconscious from the volume of anesthesia they're having to give me. And Dr. Williams will do the very

brutal things that have to be done to the burn survivor. Again, normally it's airway breathing circulation and then evacuation to specialized care. the Lord put him there so that not just stabilizing airway breathing and circulation, but he'll begin to do the escarotomy, the debreedment, the excisions, very difficult things that you're glad you're unconscious through it, but because it's the things that have to be done for me to be able to survive this. I'll eventually be transferred to Georgetown. Mel's got a great story in her own accord of how she got there, how she got notified. again the Lord putting the right people at the right time the right place

Mel will get there just before about 4 o'clock just before I'm evacuated to the Washington Hospital Center burn unit the hospital had been asking the FAA for clearance to fly me she gets there the ICU at Georgetown is a cardiac ICU they do all the bypasses and things of that nature but one of the former burn nurse burn unit nurses um deb trichelle was transferred it was had transferred from the burn unit at georgetown because she wanted to start working ICU so i've got not just in doctor williams but i've got deb trichel as my burn nurse in an iC unit that's primarily designed for cardiac

Mel will get there. She says she'll never forget the smell. I mean, it's like a gas station. And they prepare her to come in and see me. I have no idea she's there. And then they'll take me to the helipad. Helicopter will fly me. A Georgetown University police officer will drive her to Washington Hospital Center.

And the streets of Washington, D.C. have never been that clear since Abraham Lincoln was the President of the United States when the Confederacy was threatening a capital. It's just eerie for her to see that. We'll get to the Washington Hospital Center

and we'll survive. The Lord was very gracious. There are a lot of hard things that I'd under the last questions about, but I've just described what was the very beginning of a four-year reconstruction survival, reconstruction, and yeah. Great story, the Lord's grace. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest

issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever

you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. I know people are really going to. You weren't. No, don't worry about that. You know, that's what helps relay the story and puts people in the position. No matter how many times I've told the story, the, the emotion. emotional connection to the events in Georgetown and then the hardest thing. Matthew is, I don't know how, I mean, I don't want to filibuster you, but Mel had gotten to the hospital. I'll tell you how this came about. Mel got to the hospital. She's at the burn unit. the ICU and the burn unit has seven it's in horseshoe shape

there's seven rooms I'm in room six and there's just a curtain about two in the morning on September 12th Lieutenant General Peak is the chief of the Surgeon General of the Army and the attacks over but they're trying to basically husband the

where all the casualties who's most critical and he comes to my room and asked Mel, you know, can we go in and see Brian together? And Mel would be very perceptive, as you would expect. She's also a Tuffalo bulldog, you know, a little packet of dynamite. You know, Lord knew who I needed when I was. And General Peek would ask Mel, you know, has Matthew been up here to see his father? And she said, no, he's not ready for that yet.

General Peek and Howie would say it, you need to get Matt. Matthew up here to see his father as quickly as you can. And Mel would process that wisely. He's telling me my husband's dying. And the odds of the nine of us that arrived, Dr. Jordan expected all but one, I'm sorry, all but two, to decease. And only one did. Antoinette died on the 17th.

Matt comes to the hospital, in my sense of time and order in ICU was pretty distorted. But he said, I'm rapped like a mummy, and Matt comes in, you know, says, I love you, dad, I have a trache. There's no air going on my voice, so I can't speak. I can just mouth, but I've got a feeding tube through, you know. Yeah. And I'll never forget that intensity.

and so when we got to have that that little time with Elijah and then Lily when she was born and the things that we've had you know whether it's a I mean Mel and I've had the opportunity to encourage both the spouse and the servicemen that's got an amputation or or missing an eye or so I said what I did about every scar is worth our freedom because Christ's scars when Thomas says, you know, show me

and so on Christ's glorified body we'll see the price of our eternal freedom and we're with him in eternity and and the scars that we see on the human body the scars we see of all the headstones in cemeteries across the country that's the price of freedom and every one of those lives is precious,

but every one of them was worth it in defending the preciousness of freedom and the opportunities before us. So watching the last few weeks has been hard. Yeah. Watching people kneeled during the National Anthem and with no sense of... Who have never sacrificed themselves either.

Yeah. I mean, it's... Yeah. So it's... when you've paid in blood. I mean, it's kind of funny. I got my purple heart for coming out of the men's restroom. That doesn't go over very well with, with, I shouldn't say,

it's a feeling of inadequacy on my part when I'm at a veterans group. And, you know, I got my purple heart for coming out of the can. Yeah. What? You know. But they understand. They do. They understand.

They understand. Oh, explain it. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, um, but when you pay. and blood, it's pretty special to you. I imagine that one of the hardest, most difficult thoughts that you could have had and all of that was the possibility of not seeing your son grow up.

As a mom, that's something that I would be thinking about and possibly not only not seeing them grow up and accomplish all the things that you knew that he would, but possibly not seeing your grandchildren. So what was that like? What was that fear like in those moments? You've mentioned the blessing of the last 20 years, that even with the scars or my range of motion limitations or what, the last 20 years have been a blessing to see the things in life that in those moments on that day and certainly that month of ICU, where I pleaded for the Lord to finish what the terraced started. After I got to see Matthew, that's the hardest thing. thing my country's ever asked me to do was say goodbye to my son under such i mean i'm wrapped like

a mummy i've got a tube in every orifice of my body and i mean every and i'm not trying to be gratuitous alley i just um when that visit was done i was like okay lord it's time to finish this i'm in agony and i'm watching my family in agony let's get this over with. And in my humanity at that point, it was the just wanting the immediacy to be done. The Lord knows what he's doing, though. And so now Mel and I have had the opportunity instead of her seeing things as a widow over the last 20 years. We've gotten to see Matthew graduate, you know, high school, graduate from Texas Tech back in 2013, get married. We got a fabulous daughter-in-law in Anne-Marie, and then two little grandkids.

In fact, when the first one was born, when Elijah was born, it was a hospital here in Fort Worth, and we got to see him and hold him for a little bit. and then as they tended to him and Anne-Marie and, you know, Mel and I stepped out and just went down to a, not secluded, but a little bit more private part of the hospital and just had a good cry together and a cry of joy that the things that we might not have seen as a couple. But I would want your viewers and listeners to see this and know that the Lord's still gracious, but also that every scar that I physically wear or emotionally wear, and every other veteran that wears a physical or emotional scar, every one of those scars is worth the freedoms that this country offers, because no matter our maladies,

this is still the greatest place on God's green earth and you know the Lord saw fit to wear some scars for our eternal freedom and so that's why these things are so important because it's an opportunity to remember what the Lord did in our lives personally how he helped form this nation

and how precious freedom is and if you don't believe me go look at that plane taken off out of cobble with people hanging on to it because they wanted to come here. Right. I'd love to hear you talk a little bit more about that because there is some cynicism. I would say, especially among the generation who wasn't alive for 9-11, that there seems to be this sense of privilege and entitlement that also comes with just kind of a disregard for

liberty or a naivete, I guess, about how rare it is. is to be able to enjoy the freedom that we have that has been sacrificed so gravely for. Do you still believe that there is hope for this republic that we live in over the past year and a half? A lot of people have started to have their doubts. Well, you know, in those moments in ICU, it was a lot like that footprints in the sand, you know, where the Lord is carrying you. and while we see the darkness at this moment, whether it's our mutual friend David and Tim Barton

and what they're doing with training up a new generation, others that we know. And I do think there's still plenty of hope because one, the Lord still sits on his throne. But two, people are opening their eyes to the challenges that are before us. I've got some staffers that are a great indication that future generations get it. And so while news media tend to always report the abnormal, not the normal, those that are still believe in this country, know its freedoms are precious, the ones that aren't kneeling during the national anthem, they're not getting the media attention. The others are.

But they're the minority. They just get the majority of the attention. as opposed to the people that are making this country work every day doing the best that they possibly can, being the best at their chosen professions, and making this country work, that opportunity to go be the best that you can be at whatever your chosen profession is. And like you said, if we didn't know it already, seeing the desperation of people trying to flee Afghanistan, risking their lives, hanging on to planes, like you said,

trying to escape and trying to get to the greatest country in the world. There's a reason why more immigrants flee to America every year than to any other country by far. Seeing the images and the videos coming after or out of Afghanistan, rather, and seeing just kind of the fumbling of this administration when it comes to evacuating Afghanistan. Fumbling is a generous description. Yes. I would like to hear your perspective on that. I mean, does it make your whole experience?

it's sting a little bit more, or is it just kind of, you know, you knew this was inevitable eventually? It hurts because, look, I'm like that guy at Pearl Harbor that I'm knocked out of the war on the first day. I never got to Afghanistan, never got to, at least Iraq this go around. I was there in 1991, but watching what's occurred over the last three weeks has been hard to watch. I hurt for our fellow veterans. Just a couple weeks ago, I got to visit with a group of about 20 and encourage them, say thank you. Because a guy like me that's injured on that day,

that when we commemorate the memorial of September 11th, that isn't just those that died that day, that were injured that day, that responded, like first responders, police, fire, medical, just the average greatness of the American citizen that's just doing his part to help where he can, to relieve suffering, whether it was at ground zero, the Pentagon, or otherwise. But it's also every young man or woman that a day later, week, month, year, years later, raised their right hand and said, I'll support to defend the Constitution, United States against all enemies foreign and domestic. Those young men and women that were killed, those 13 and the others that were wounded

that were killed two weeks ago. Many of them were like what weren't alive yet or had just been born months before. We champion them because they were where they were out of a sense of duty and responsibility to their country and what happened on the morning of September 11th. So that's why we say thank you to them. And I think I still have great hope for this country,

though there's, you know, in the fixed bayonet's perspective of looking at, oh my gosh, you know, look at our problems. The Lord still sits on his throne. He's still in charge. And there's still hope. And folks like you that are using this platform, others, particularly to reach a younger generation that I, as a 59-year-old, about to turn 60, wouldn't reach. You know, there's still a lot of hope because this is still the greatest place on earth.

I mean, I've been to those places that aren't. And, you know, maybe there's some. hope for folks that think this place was really terrible, go visit some of those places I've been to and then come back and complain to me. Yep, absolutely. Thankfully, my parents taught me from a very young age to love this country and be grateful. And there's never been a day in my life where I haven't realized that I am exceptionally blessed to live in the United States.

That doesn't mean that we don't have our problems. Every country does or that we haven't had failures in the past. But, man, I'm not so. insulated to think that the struggles that I may suffer here in America are even comparable to the struggles that people who have never been able to taste freedom one day in their lives. So in your IAM second video, you said that with time you'd be able to forgive. Do you think that you have? I don't know that I'll ever be able to say, Ali, because it'd be.

much, I'd be confident that I could if the five, and I use the term loosely, men that crashed polite 77 in the building, if they had repented and came and said, please forgive me. When somebody asks for that forgiveness, my faith, I think, is strong enough that I would, I could say yes. But they'll never do that because they're receiving their eternal award now. So I don't know that I'll ever know the answer because that forgiveness can't culminate in that way. It can only culminate of my own assessment. Part of what hurts about what's going on in Afghanistan or what has happened to the last three weeks is that while we may say that the war on terror is over with, it doesn't mean our enemies think it's over.

I am not prepared to forgive the culture that trained, deployed, financed, and slaughtered in an act of war, not a crime, but an act of war. If you want to come after the United States, yep, you can do that, but you're going to pay a big price for it. Forgiveness is my responsibility. It is not my governments. So it's not just proper role in function of government between federal government, state government, county, local governments. It's what is the sword belongs to government.

It does not belong to the church, and it doesn't belong to me as an individual. So when September 11th happens, I try to respond to it wearing a few different hats, wearing the hat of a citizen, wearing the hat of a soldier, and wearing the hat of a believer. What are those functions? what's the proper response? And had I not been injured that day and had been deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere else that my country may have sent me,

forgiveness isn't my duty. It is to bear the sword against those who would do evil to protect you at any cost and your freedoms, life, liberty, and the pursuit of all who threaten it, kind of thing. And so that's where people need to understand the difference between the functions, function of family, function of government, function of the church.

You remember in scripture Christ tells us that all things were created through him and all things he created. That isn't just the things that are made up of the periodic table of the elements. It's the institutions of marriage in Genesis came first, government came second, church came third. And each of those institutions have their own unique functions. I think I can, I cannot tell you I have forgiven at this moment. I've affirmed and acknowledged the blessings that the Lord's given me here. But what they may have done to me,

I think someday I'll get there. I don't know that I can forgive what they did to the country. But that's government's responsibility. Mine's for what happened to me personally. I hope I wasn't long-winded there, but, I'm being very brutally honest with a brutally honest question.

That's really tough. Because, man, it's like what's happening in Afghanistan right now, you know, when the Taliban tells us, you know, there'll be consequences if you're not out by August 31st. Like, the response should have been, yeah, there's going to be a lot of relish on your hot dog if you jack with us. We're going to be there longer than the 31st. Yeah, right.

But we just kind of capitulated. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what makes, I think, a lot of people worried. Even if we're not foreign policy experts, we know, I'm talking about we normal, average citizens who have not served. And I don't have a degree in foreign policy. But one thing we understand is weakness. We understand capitulation.

We understand what it looks like to lose. And that's what a lot of people, I think, are embarrassed about right now when it comes to Afghanistan. And sad, you don't like to feel like, even I didn't vote for Joe Biden, obviously. But I was rooting for him. I was hoping, okay, well, you know, maybe he'll prove us wrong. Maybe he will be the commander-in-chief that we want or that we need. Maybe he will defend our interests. And it just kind of seems like this whole America-last approach is really bent on a weak America.

And that makes me sad. Yeah. It does because I, it doesn't mean that you can't have a conversation with, whether it's trade or other foreign policy thing. but I did an interview on Fox two years ago at the anniversary is not the right word but 18th Memorial the local Fox affiliate and it was right at the time that Trump was starting to talk thinking about talking to the Taliban and I said you know I think the president's got it right but I said and I don't remember exactly how I said it Ali but I said what I most appreciate

because they had just killed Baghdaddy, Soleimani was just a couple months later. And I said, I think the president's right and I'm prepared to trust him because it's finally great to have a president that cares more about the lives of Americans

than he does about the lives of our enemies. And we're back to where we were. people that care more about not offending somebody. Yeah. I mean, there were so many people after September 11th. You know, what have we done to offend them? Why are they mad? I am not interested in learning while you're mad.

Yeah. I'm interested in you learning never to make us mad. Right. Which is how it should be. And what people don't understand is that American strength is good for the world. American weakness is not just bad for. Americans, it's bad for the world, which is why our allies are so... You look at what's happening right now in the geopolitical structure and circumstances.

India is an ally. Thailand is an ally. Australia, Taiwan. The Chinese have an incredible amount of economic leverage. Pakistan, it's very clear, is not an ally. The ISI has been helping, I mean, just getting bin Laden in Pakistan, that should have been obvious 10 years ago. Pakistan's not an ally. China and Russia are about to recognize because the Taliban wants recognition in the international community. Bogram was right smack in the middle of, you know, not far from Russia, not far from China, not far from Pakistan. we had a pretty stable. It certainly wasn't Western Republican government,

but it was a stable, relatively stable, for what we had gotten into 20 years ago, relatively stable situation. And now India, that's already had some clashes on its border with China, now has Afghanistan, China, Pakistan on its north and eastern borders. Border disputes.

The Chinese have an incredible amount of leverage. If they decide to, I mean, look at our logistics change. It isn't, it changes. It isn't just China. Yeah. But it's, you know, Vietnam. Vietnam is, I mean, it ought to tell you, even though they're both communists, when Vietnam wants a better relationship of the United States is because they,

see the threat of China and wanting a homogenous far east under their control. We don't walk around willy-nilly looking for a fight, but when one comes, don't back up from it. That's what happened on September 11th because we had been treating terrorism as a criminal act for so many years up too. I mean, you know, the coal, the embassies, I mean, we can go down the list all the way back to 73. But I hurt for my country, but we've left the world not just because of,

you said it great, you know, American weakness is bad for the world, but we've left a critical part of the world with flashpoints in a much more dangerous position. I think gratitude is one way that we can honor those who have paid the ultimate price for our freedom, especially this weekend. What are some other ways that people can express their gratitude and can honor what happened 20 years ago this Saturday this weekend and maybe just, you know, throughout their lives? You saw it a lot right after September 11th when you saw veterans or servicemen and women in airports and buying. and buying a meal, you know, saying thank you in those regards.

Of late, I've seen efforts about going into cemeteries and cleaning headstones because as they sit there and age over there's a, I don't want to make September 11th simply a day of service to go build a house, but a day of service to those who serve us because the three things that the fire police and military as professes, professions share that no other professions share is the tug of death because of your sense of duty and the nature of your duties. Saying thank you to them. That's always appreciated whether it's something as simple as a meal in a restaurant when the police officer comes in.

Rees at Veterans Day, Memorial Day, saying thank you because gratitude is one of the best virtues. that we can have either individually or as a nation. And how you choose to demonstrate that gratitude is up to you. But let it be a day of gratitude. Yeah. There's a lot of young moms who listen to this podcast. And I think one thing that we can do is that we can set an example for our kids. We can teach our kids from a very young age, how exceptional, how rare, how unique and

wonderful it is to live in this country. We can pass the torch in that regard. guard and we have such a wonderful opportunity to be able to do that and to be free to do that. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell your story. I am especially keen for all of the youngans who don't remember 9-11. Now, I remember, you know, it's interesting. I'm sure a lot of people can relate to this. I was in fourth grade. It's in my fourth grade class. Gosh, you're making me feel old. I know. I know. I was, let's see, nine, I guess I was nine years old. Yeah. So, but I, it's funny because I actually remember exactly what my teacher was wearing black and white pants and a black shirt.

I remember she was up the front of the classroom trying to continue the lesson. And I remember she started crying. And you know when you're a kid and you see an adult start crying, it's very off-putting because you don't like to see your parents or adults upset. And we, our parents were told to pick us up early from school. They were given a letter. And I remember my mom sitting in our kitchen or standing in our kitchen reading this letter. to me and her saying, you know, we might have to leave Dallas because we didn't know. And we were in a big city. You might have to leave Dallas and I don't even know where we would have gone. And so I remember,

and it's kind of strange how in those moments, even though you don't have the maturity to realize, wow, this is a moment in history, something catches in your brain that tells you, remember this. And I do. And I think there are a lot of people listening who are a little older or a little younger who remember exactly where they were. And I think even if all you can do, you've got a bunch of little kids running around, maybe you don't have time to go out and actually do something formally, the least that I think that we can do. Try to remember where you were in that moment. Try to remember what started all of this. And like you said, be grateful. Be grateful to the Lord first and foremost for his provision, but also to everyone who has given their lives. And I'm thankful to you for the service

that you've done for this country. And thank you so much for sharing your story and sharing your faith as well. Thank you, Ellie. My treat to be with you. It's been a privilege. Thank you. All right, guys.

I know you enjoyed that conversation. If you guys could please do me a favor, it would mean so much to me. If you could go on Apple Podcasts, if you love this podcast, leave me a five-star review. Just maybe a quick sentence or two about why you love Relatable.

Also, a reminder, we've got our 500th episode of Relatable coming up. I can't believe that it's been that many episodes. Thank you guys so much for listening and for watching as long as you have. If you have any ideas for something special that I could do for y'all for the 500th episode or just any fun ideas for what we could do to make that episode special, please let me know. That's coming up in just a few weeks. Thank you guys for listening. And I will see you back here on Monday.

Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're more. moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV, or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.