Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 499 | NBA Star on the Vaccine, BLM & Following Jesus | Guest: Jonathan Isaac

Episode Date: October 4, 2021

Today we're very excited to be speaking with Jonathan Isaac, forward for the NBA's Orlando Magic. Jonathan is an outspoken Christian and has gone viral once or twice for some of the political stances he has taken over the past year. Most recently, he's been in the Left's crosshairs for daring to ask questions about the COVID-19 vaccine. We discuss Jonathan's faith and how it plays into the choices he makes as well as all the problems and propaganda surrounding COVID-19 and the vaccine. Specifically, why is natural immunity treated like a swear word by the mainstream media and the Left? --- Today's Sponsors: Patriot Mobile shares your values & supports organizations fighting for religious freedom, constitutional rights, sanctity of life, & our Veteran & First Responder heroes. Go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 972-PATRIOT & get free activation with promo code 'ALLIE'! Good Ranchers travel the U.S. & meet with the actual farmers that raise the livestock to ensure the product they send you is the very best. Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE to place a one-time order or subscribe today & save 20% on each box of mouth-watering meats. Use promo code 'ALLIE' at checkout to get an additional $20 off & FREE express shipping! Reliefband is the #1 FDA-cleared anti-nausea wristband that is 100% drug free, non-drowsy, & provides all-natural relief with zero side effects. Go to Reliefband.com & use promo code 'ALLIE' to save 20% off your order, plus free shipping! --- Show Link: TheBlaze.com: "Rand Paul Makes Example Out of HHS Secretary For 'Lying to People About Naturally Acquired Immunity'" https://bit.ly/3AeZSBH --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable Happy Monday. I hope everyone is having a wonderful day. I hope you had a wonderful weekend. Today I have a treat for you guys.

I am talking to NBA player Jonathan Isaac. He plays for the Orlando Magic. He has an outspoken career. Christian. And the reason you might know his name is because he has gone viral twice over the past year plus. The first time he went viral was because of his response at a press conference about why he was the only player on his team to stand up during the national anthem. And he was the only player not to wear a Black Lives Matter shirt. So before I go into why I'm talking to him today, the second time he went viral over the past year, I want to play you a little. A little bit of a little bit

clip of him talking about why he stood for the anthem last year. I think when you look around, racism isn't the only thing that plagues our society, that plagues our nation, that plagues our world. And I feel like, you know, coming together on that message that we want to get past, not only racism, but everything that that plagues us as a society, I feel like the answer to it is is the gospel. So, I mean, he is so extremely clear just about his faith, about his faith, about his beliefs. He doesn't stumble, doesn't

caveat, doesn't apologize, doesn't try to make it so nuanced to the point to where, you know, people won't think he's controversial. I mean, he just lays it out there. So much respect for that. I had so much respect for him last year when I originally shared that video. And now he is in the spotlight again because he is giving his reasoning for not being vaccinated and not only that, he is talking about what he believes is the injustice, the unfairness, the inconsistency of a lot of the restrictions surrounding the vaccine. So I'll play you a little bit of his take on that. I'm grateful that I live in a society where vaccines are possible and we can

protect ourselves and have the means to protect ourselves in the first place. But with that being said, it is my belief that the vaccine status of every person should be. their own choice and completely up to them without the, without bullying, without being pressured or without being forced into doing so. So we're going to talk to him more about his stance, why he believes, what he believes, where all of this boldness came from. And I'm super excited for you to hear that conversation. But first, I want to give a little bit of context because he's not the only one in the NBA

who is speaking up about this. Now, typically, we don't look to NBA players. to tell us our political views. There's been people like, you know, LeBron James saying some ridiculous things that obviously I don't believe and don't agree with and are just factually wrong.

And yet we have seen many NBA players stand up and say, hey, this coercion, this manipulation, this assault on true bodily autonomy isn't okay. Kyrie Irving is, he's being accused of leading a coalition of anti-vaxxers. Now, I'm sure that that's not an accurate description by the media, but he is speaking up about this. He is talking about the importance of freedom of choice when it comes to this.

And not only Kyrie Irving, but there is also Draymond Green. He plays for the Warriors, and I'll play you a little bit of his response on this. You know, I think there is something to be said for people's concern about something that's being pressed so hard. Like, why are you pressing this so hard? Like, so much, you're just pressing and pressing and pressing. I think you have to honor people's feelings and, and their own personal beliefs. And I think that's been lost when it comes to vaccinated and non-vaccinated. And then the most shocking of all to me was LeBron James. Now, LeBron James says that he was vaccinated, but he also says he thinks that it should be people's choice. So here is LeBron James saying that. I think everyone has the only choice to do what they feel is right for these

and their families of that nature. So this is, I mean, this is a wonderful, pleasant surprise. As we have talked about many times, no matter your vaccination status, you should be able to use your common sense, your knowledge of any bit of history at all, just a tiny semblance of a moral compass to see that where this is headed, where it has already come, is scary. It's wrong. It's not based in science. It's not based in logic. It's certainly not based in any form of compassion. And it is unfortunately robbing people of dignity, robbing people of autonomy, robbing people of their ability to provide for their families. And as we'll talk about with Jonathan, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially the part that so many are ignoring. And this is the part that was apparently the most

controversial of what Jonathan Isaac said, natural immunity. So there is this crazy trope out there that the media is trotting out that there's no such thing as natural immunity, which is just plain false. I mean, we've talked about the giant pre-print study coming out of Israel. That's not the only study, but that's one of the most recent studies saying that natural immunity is stronger and longer lasting than immunity from the vaccine, especially if you have not been infected with COVID. Now, the study also said that, hey, you might be able to get an extra boost if you've been infected and you get one dose of the vaccine. But if you have never been infected and you've just gotten your two Pfizer shots or whatever versus being unvaccinated and having been infected,

you don't have a strong of immunity as that person who has been infected. Jonathan Isaac brought this up and Joy Reid. You know, I had to mute Joy Reid on Twitter. It was just my way of trying to maintain my sanity. But I happened to see a screenshot of her tweet and she quote tweeted, she quote tweeted Will Kane from Fox News, who tweeted out Jonathan Isaac's explanation. and she said, oh, so stick to sports doesn't apply when stuff y'all agree with. Got it.

Also, natural immunity is not a thing. It's not a thing. Talk about a science denier. I mean, this is the same Joy Reid, who, by the way, tweeted a year ago that how could we possibly trust a vaccine that was approved by the FDA? I mean, she was the true anti-VAC science denier a year ago saying that we shouldn't trust a vaccine. that is developed by Donald Trump or something like that. I mean, this is why I had to mute her because she is blue anon. I mean, she is a conspiracy theorist, truly.

And so her latest conspiracy theory is that there's no such thing as natural immunity. When we know that there is, and we know that it is very strong. In fact, our secretary for health and human services, Xavier Bacera, who was just demolished by Rand Paul the other day, you need to go. search that online. If you have not seen Rand Paul, we don't have time to play it right now. Rand Paul just completely eviscerate Xavier Bacera, our HHS secretary. You need to go see that because our health and human services secretary is not, it's not a health expert. He's not a scientist. He doesn't have any degree in science. He is not a doctor. He has never met with a patient.

Why? Because he's a lawyer. And he was Attorney General at one point of California. He doesn't have any experience in this realm. And of course, Rand Paul called him out on that in a hearing in the Senate because Xavier Bacera said in his speech last Tuesday on an online forum hosted by the Foundation for a Healthy Kentucky that, my friends, the earth really is round because some flat earthers, especially those in places of influence, choose to peddle fiction. We're losing more loved ones today than we were a few. months ago. What we have to do is it rocket science. He said, get vaccinated. And what he is talking about

in the context is people who say that there is such a thing as natural immunity and that natural immunity can actually protect you from reinfection and especially severe infection and hospitalization. That is the HHS secretary. We are being run by science deniers. Actually, this is a K-kastocracy. A kastocracy is when the idiots are in charge. I'm sorry. I know someone's going to say that that like tone was rude or that. that I shouldn't have said that. I'm sure actually these are very smart people. Maybe that's the bigger danger about this is that these are not stupid people.

They're not dumb. They are very smart. But that makes it seem like maybe they're actually malicious. And the longer all of this goes on, the harder it is not to put that malintent on them. NBA legend Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said that unvaccinated players should be removed from teams. And so they're not messing around. These players, of course everyone,

but in particular, in relation to our conversation today, these players are up against a lot. They're up against a lot. They're not just up against some people in the NBA, but they're up against our health bureaucracy. Anthony Fauci is actually saying now that we might not be able, or he says this,

that he doesn't think that we should be able to celebrate Christmas this year. Here's Anthony Fauci saying that. But we can gather for Christmas or it's just too soon to tell. You know, Margaret, it's just too soon to tell. What in the world? Like, does he not have, does he not have a tell? Like, does he not see that there are stadiums full of people every weekend with tens of thousands of maskless people cheering and saying some other things about our president of the United States? Like, there, I think that even if you're a liberal, there are very few people who are actually abiding by what Anthony Fauci says. I mean, we haven't. Not since, you know, the beginning of 2020.

And so people are not, they're not going to follow whatever kind of, I don't even know if this counts as a rule. It doesn't count as a mandate. I guess just the advice of Anthony Fauci. I mean, people are living in a completely different reality. Most people are living as normally as they possibly can. a lot of people don't even wear masks in many places. And actually we're seeing in places like Florida, the spike that they were having has dropped by now 95% just in the last few weeks. That's because,

as we've been saying, it's seasonal. The more you're inside, the more the virus is going to circulate, the more those case numbers are going to go up. It's very hot in the south in the summer, so a lot of people spent their time inside. That's why you saw higher case numbers. We're going to see a switch of that. We're going to see the northeast. which we're already seen, they're going to get a spike. Their cases are going to rise even though they are highly vaccinated. That is my prediction based on the data that we have anyway, and you will hear silence coming from the media.

Nevertheless, Dr. Fauci is saying that we might need to rethink this whole personal liberty thing. Here he is saying that. You have got to look at it and say there comes a time when you do have have to give up what you consider your individual right of making your own decision for the greater good of society. Which is funny because last year, he said this. If someone refuses the vaccine in the general public, then there's nothing you can do about that. You cannot force someone to take a vaccine. So we wonder why there's distress. Like we wonder why there's hesitancy. People are

constantly accusing the right of politicizing this when it has been political since Democrats figured out that they could use it as a tool to try to defeat Donald Trump. It's been political since we heard the Democrats in February of 2020 call Trump a xenophobe for saying that, hey, maybe we should restrict travel from China. It has been political since then, and it has not been predominantly the right who has politicized the actual virus. We do realize there are political implications to the measures to allegedly stop the spread of the virus because it is political. Like that is political. And we do want to follow the science.

That's all most people have been asking for a very long time. But unfortunately, we have Flipflop Fauci and we have the public health bureaucrats who are changing their mind not based on science, but based on the teachers unions, based on political. opinion based on some, I don't know, some desire for control that I personally, I just can't, I can't relate to it. All right. I just wanted to give some contacts of what we're talking about. Jonathan is mostly going to talk to us about his faith and how we can be bold and standing up for the things that, uh, that we believe in.

And he's going to give us a lot of encouragement. But he's also going to talk a little bit more about, you know, why he stands where he stands on this particular vaccine and the mandates that have come down the pipeline. Hey, this is Steve Dase. listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and

we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Jonathan, thank you so much for joining us. I know who you are and have known who you are for a while, but I wanted to look you up on Wikipedia just to, you know, find some details about you. And I learned that your birthday was yesterday. You turned 24. Did you do anything fun or was it just work?

It was just two. I got married to recently or so. Oh, my gosh. Congratulations. That is awesome. Thank you very much. But I practiced yesterday and all that, so I just wanted to just relax. Oh, well, happy birthday. And thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. You are in the news. You've been in the news before. This time, you're in the news because of your stance on the vaccine. But before we get into that, I just want to hear a little bit about you. Like, tell us your story, how you came to faith, how you came to be so bold and sharing your faith. Fill in those details for us. So I grew up Christian.

My dad was super Christian. We were in church all the time. Like, it felt like every day. We had to memorize whole Psalms to recite them in church. And church really just became so traditional. And, you know, I didn't understand the lifestyle of it or that God was something. that was tangible. And my parents had split up when I was 10, and I ended up in Florida with my mom, with my four brothers and one sister. And basketball just started to take over my

life. I started to play. It started to get me, you know, what I was searching after love and respect and notoriety. And all that started to come to me through basketball. I became the number one player in the state of Florida. And it just rolled on. I ended up being drafted to the NBA is the sixth picture to the Orlando Magic. And I had this picture in my mind, even through college and high school, but like what a man was. And it was like somebody who had the money, who had his choice of women, who had the stuff. And then once I was able to attain those things, I quickly figured out that it wasn't all that they were chumped to me. And I found myself a lot of the time just wrestling with who, who are you? You know, you're either doing this or doing

that to please the people around you or to have yourself come off a certain way. I just, I just, wasn't happy and then through some like God-given like just what's the word I'm looking for, intervention where I ended up getting hurt my rookie year. And at the time, I thought it was some terrible thing, but it turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I had went to a chapel one time. And the chaplain said, why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say. It's Luke 646. And I can remember just being like, man, like that is me. Luke 646 is me. And I would think about it during the game. I would think about it before I went to bed. And I came to this conclusion where I was like, listen, I'm going to search this thing out and either I'm going to commit myself to it because

it's true or I'm going to throw it away. So I dove into like Christian apologetics, Frank Turrick and Robbie Zacharias and all these different people, John Lennox, I just dove into it. And it was trying to rationalize it that way, but it still wasn't really a heart thing. It became like a mind thing. Okay. This makes sense and this makes sense. So I'll go there. And then one day I would stop by me in on an elevator. And he said to me, he said, I know what's going to make you great. And I said, what?

He said, you got to know Jesus. And I was like, man, I know Jesus. And I begin to, I begin to just see this man all the time. We begin to hang out. And he really, he taught me the love of God, like love, like how love is not when you're good. That real love is when things aren't going right. Like real faith. Real faith isn't when everything is good.

It's when things are bad. If you can believe then or if you can love. love then, that's true love and that's Godly love. And I started to figure out that God loves me for me. God doesn't love Jonathan for NBA Jonathan or what God, what Jonathan does on the court or what Jonathan does as impressive. God loves Jonathan for the jacked up, uh, hypocritical, just crazy Jonathan. And I began to fall in love with God and I started going to church. And it turned out that that man was the pastor of that church. And I just began to grow and just gleaned from him into, you know, to where I became a man that I am today.

Praise God. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. Would you mind telling us since you just got married, if you don't want to share, that's okay. But I know that people would love to hear how you met your wife. I met my wife at that same church. You did. Oh, I love that. It's funny. And it's telling. It makes a lot of sense when I like break it down. But like I got the church and there's this, there's this beautiful girl who carries herself with such poise and just just a mighty woman of God. Right. and I see her and I'm like, oh, you know, she's beautiful, but she's not attractive to me in that sense because of what I'm just coming out of. I'm just coming out of the world. I'm trying to get myself acclimated to faith and believe in God and what God likes and all that stuff. And so she's not all over me. I'm an NBA basketball player coming to church and she's not giving me the time of day. Yeah. But as I began to, as I began to grow, as I began to see things not, you know, through the flesh but through the spirit, she became the.

she started to become more and more attractive to me. And I was like, man, those are the values, those are the principles, those are the, that's the heart posture that I believe, you know, God likes and God honest. I'm like, that woman can be my wife one day. So I started to pursue her. And the more that she saw me grow as well, the more attractive that I became to her. And she started giving me the time of day. And I had it all in my mind. I was like, you know, we're going to date for a year. We're going to be engaged for a year. And then we're going to be married. And barring COVID pushed it out four months, but everything else was on right time. Oh my gosh.

Well, I love that story. Congratulations. And thank you so much for sharing your testimony of faith as well. I know that alone, if we were to stop the conversation right now, that alone would encourage and edify a lot of people. So thank you for sharing that. A lot of people I know can relate and have a very similar story to you. Maybe not the NBA part.

Most people don't have that as part of their story, but they can certainly relate to being just inundated with worldliness and only relying on God kind of when things are hard or treating him a little bit like a genie in a bottle. And then realizing having that conviction, like, wait, oh, he's God. He's not a genie. He doesn't just exist for me. But if he's going to be my savior, he has to be Lord too. And it sounds like that's what you discovered, right?

100%. Yep. Okay. That's not why you're making headlines necessarily. Now you are, you're making headlines. The Rolling Stone wrote an art. article and included you talking about, you know, your so-called anti-vax stance. They accused you of being an anti-vaxxer. And I want to talk about how they describe you and just get your

reaction to that. So Jonathan Isaac is known less by the average basketball fan for his play than for being that guy who stood up with his jersey on during the national anthem in the NBA bubble, while every other player on the court took a knee and a t-shirt declaring Black Lives Matter amid a global reckoning on race and police killings. I'm not going to sit here and point my fingers at one group of people. Isaac, who is black, tells Rolling Stone, I would do it again. So this much of the article, we haven't read the other part of the description, seems pretty accurate.

I mean, you were the only person to stand up or to stand for the national anthem and not wear a BLM shirt last July. Can you talk about why I know you have in the past, but just for people who may not know your reasoning? Yeah, I would start with the article. Even with that short segment, it is pretty, you know, off-putting to not just the words, but to the heartbeat behind, you know, why I decided to stand. It wasn't in a, you know, a vigorous, I'll do it again. And, you know, I'm this person. Right. You know, once they stand out or once to go against the grain, it was really from a heartfelt posture and saying that, man, I see everything that goes on. The reason why everybody's mad about the Black Lives Matter, but there are.

tons and tons of things that go on every single day that hurt people, that harm people, that harm each other on a grand scheme. And I'm saying, man, I know that Jesus has been the answer for me. And I know that he's the answer for the world. And if we can take a moment to step back and say, man, I've played a part in this too. And the Bible says it clearly when it says we all fall short of God's glory and are in need of his grace. And so it was a humble posture to say, you know what, I humbly, I've seen enough division. You know, I've seen enough going back and the white, the black, but there is no color in the spirit. And I know that God is trying to get us all to unite. And we can unite if we all can understand that, man, my evil is just as prevalent, it's just

as potent than anybody else's evil. And the problem usually is that I can see the evil and no one can see mine. And so that's what I believed and that's what I decided to stand on to say, man, we can come together. And the verse that was playing in my mind so much was a second chronicle seven and 14, where God says that if my people who are called by my name would humble themselves, seek my face, pray, turn from their wicked ways, I'll hear from heaven, I'll forgive their sins, and I'll hear that land. And I know that my land has been healed, you know, with my heart and my understanding of who God is. And that God wants to hear the land of America and really the world. Right, right. And you're right. Rolling Stone didn't really pick up on the posture or the heart

behind what you were doing. When you're the only person to stand when everyone else is doing something announced, especially when they're in a posture of kneeling, someone who doesn't understand you or is committed to not understanding you might think it's actually for the opposite motivation that you're trying to make some kind of prideful political statement. And that's not what you were doing at all, right? For sure. And he knew what he was doing. You know, he knew just the same way that I'm explaining to me, it to you, I explained it to him. Right. And at the standpoint of, you know, I would do it again. It's just saying that if the opportunity did arise, I would come from the same heart posture and would take the stand again for Christ and not myself.

Yeah. And, you know, we can't necessarily expect someone. I don't know the religious beliefs of this particular reporter, but I know journalism in general probably, if I were to guess, he doesn't share a belief system. And so maybe it was purposeful, but also he probably simply doesn't understand, can't comprehend exactly where you are coming from, which probably explains, the next part of this article, which we know for sure is inaccurate because you responded to it. But just for the people out there who don't know, this is what Rolling Stone said. The Orlando Magic's 23-year-old, 24 now, this was written before your birthday. 23-year-old starting forward is deeply religious and proudly unvaccinated.

When NBA players started lining up for shots in March, Isaac started studying Black History and watching Donald Trump's press conferences. He learned about antibody resistance and came to distrust Dr. Anthony. Fouchy. He looked out for people who might die from the vaccine and he put faith in God. At the end of the day, it's people, Isaac says, of the scientists developing vaccines and you can't always put your trust completely in people. Is that an accurate description of the conversation that you had with him? No, not by a long shot. When it came to talking about Trump and we talked about Trump at all, it was talking about how at first when the vaccine was first introduced and obviously

it was during the Trump administration that, you know, everyone was so hard against it, you know, that there's no way to come out this fast or it can't, you know, it can't be right or whatever. And then, you know, as soon as the other office took over, it's kind of been a complete reverse. And, you know, everybody needs to get it. This is the, this is a crisis and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so where, but where did he get that the reason for you not getting the vaccine was because of watching Donald Trump press conferences and studying black history. I mean, did he just totally make that up? Or is that kind of, was that part of your decision making?

When I mentioned about how I said how when Trump first talked about, when the Trump administration was first in and they were talking about bringing the vaccine out, that, you know, everybody was against it. And now they're forward. He took that as that went into making my decision. So it's pretty, pretty far-fetched to get there. And so when I was reading the article myself, I was like, what in the world? And I was just glad that I was able to, I know I had an opportunity coming to be able to share

and just rationalize where I was coming from on the Monday press conference that was coming up. Yep. And we already played some of that. And of course, that's been making its rounds on Twitter and social media. And I know that's never your intention when you have these kinds of press conferences, but you do kind of tend to go to go viral. Have you always been someone who has able to communicate what you're thinking well because not everyone has that skill. Not at all. Really? To hear, I'm so serious to hear everyone like, oh, he's so articulate, he's so this.

I'm like, yo, you guys have no idea who you're talking about. I really used to struggle terribly with anxiety and fear and just self-consciousness. And God has been steady working on me and my heart that just fine, my boldest, my trust, my confidence, all in him. And it really, people who know me from my time in college or my time in high school would be like, Jonathan would never in a million years get up and want to talk in front of everybody. So to be now, to be ministering, to be, you know, I know it is nothing but the power of the Holy Spirit and God on my side.

Yeah. Well, it has to be because it's not just that you're standing up and saying what you believe, but you're against a lot. Yes, there are other NBA players we already talked about before we started talking that are saying the same thing as you. But as far as you're definitely against the media, the mainstream anyway, you're against a lot of politicians, you're against a lot of the bureaucrats at some of these health agencies. And I don't know if you also feel like you're kind of against a lot of people at the NBA.

Do you feel that the NBA is supporting its players who have the same stance as you do? You know, I really wouldn't say I'm against, you know, anybody. I think that I'm always up for having a conversation and talking about. Sorry. I just mean that your particular stance is against the stance of those entities that I just listed. Not that you are trying to oppose them, just that you have a different view than them. For sure. You know, then I would agree with that.

When it comes to the league, I think that, you know, I think that there can be, you know, there should be more conversation around what's happening now, especially with the vaccine and, you know, them not having a mandate, but at the same time trying to make it difficult, you know, for unvaccinated players to kind of live in the NBA in a real way. And so I would say I would want more support or just more room to have conversation to talk about, you know, what's going on. Yeah.

I think that's what a lot of people want. I mean, I'm sure you've seen a lot of the posts and the news articles about the nurses, about firefighters, about doctors who have been on the front lines for the past 18 months, police officers, servicemen and women who are basically asking the same thing that you are. They don't see themselves as against science or against any politician, but simply saying, hey, I'd like to be free to have a choice. And unfortunately, people, they just, they just don't have, they don't have that choice. And I'm very, I'm thankful for people like you who are speaking up for them. But what would your encouragement be for people who maybe don't have the platform that you do,

who want to be able to relay, though, the same message and be as bold as you are, but they're scared or they just don't know what to do? Do you have any encouragement for them? You know, I want to say to hold the line. You know, I know that's maybe a dramatic wording. But, you know, I really do think we're at a point in time where, like, a pivotal time in history, we're more than just, you know, we're talking about a vaccine, but more than that, I believe that, you know, this government is setting a precedent that in light of any emergency, that, you know, your personal autonomy, your God-given convictions, your religious freedom and ultimately your freedom as a whole is then up to negotiation. And I would just say that at this point in time, it is going to take courage.

It is going to take boldness to stand up for what it is that you believe and to say it proudly and to say it loudly. And so I would just say to trust your convictions, to trust who you are and decision that you're making and try your best to relay that in the best way. But I think that even more than that, when things like this happen, a lot of times they continue to snowball as good people, people who have sense and all that stuff, they see what's happening, but they don't say anything, either out of just no personal reservation or not wanting to stir anything up or stir any feathers or people that even are vaccinated that see things and say, well, you know, this really isn't as reasonable as, you know, a lot of people think it is. And I think that we really forget what we're talking about here. We're talking about a virus that has pretty much as close to 100% survivor rate as you can get. And then on top of that,

virus that does not stop infection or transmission. And, you know, the sad thing is that people that doesn't. Yeah, the vaccine that doesn't stop infection or transmission. And the sad thing is that, you know, people who have been, you know, quote unquote, weaponized to, you know, weaponized out of fear to go around and to, you know, with their clubs and to beat people over their head who are asking questions, who are hesitant. The sad thing about that is, it's just about right now. and the time will come as this thing snowballs that it may be something that you don't agree with, whether you agree with it right now, but something may come where you don't agree with, and you're going to be looking for somebody to stand with you, someone to be a voice, and no one will be there.

And so I really think that it is deeper than the vaccine. It is a lot going on, and it is going to be on the people who are bold enough and courageous enough to stand up and not only the people who are not taking the vaccine, but the people who have taken the vaccine. There are common senseful people and are good people and you say, you know what, what's happening is not right. We are talking about, like I said, a virus with a near 100% survival rate. We haven't had a conversation in this country about natural immunity. And I believe that it's pretty telling. And so, you know, like I said, it's going to take people who are going to stand up and be bold.

And, you know, platforms like yours will bring people on the speak. Yeah, definitely. Joy Reid actually responded to your speech. If you know who Joy Reid is, she is a host on MSNBC. and she said, well, she said a bunch of things, but one of the things that just struck me that she said is that there's no such thing as natural immunity. I mean, that's just, that's amazing to me. And maybe you don't know the answer to this because I don't really know the answer to either. So you don't have to speculate if you don't want to. But I do wonder, what is behind

the denial of the reality of natural immunity? You said that you've already had COVID. You've got those antibodies. We know from several studies that immunity to COVID, once you've been infected can be very strong and very enduring even more so than the vaccine. So if it really is about health and safety, then why would we deny that? Have you been surprised by that, I guess, is my question, that so many people piled on you when you mentioned natural immunity. Yeah, I would say utterly surprised. Very, very surprised.

And what I come away with that is that it's not them. I don't remember the name of the woman that you said that was on that hosted show, but that's not from her in terms of knowing that natural immunity doesn't exist. She's taken that from somewhere else or from either, like I said, even the government did not have a conversation about natural immunity then trickles down to people who are, you know, that are carrying out that message. But yet, I have been pretty astounded that no one is talking about it. But there have been people, there have been scientists, there have been studies that come out and say, you know what, your reaction to natural immunity is robust and long lasting. And that just hasn't

been shared. And to me, that that is a focal point on people who have taken the vaccine that have that understanding. To say, you know what, something is off here and a conversation needs to be had and we need to sit down and not be firing people over this thing. Yeah. Honestly, I have to say, I'm surprised not by you, because I've seen your boldness before, but I am kind of surprised that there are other NBA players that are making a stand about this. I mean, maybe it's typically because I politically disagree with a lot of the most outspoken NBA players. Have you been surprised or not really that there are other NBA stars who are standing up and are taking this position?

I wouldn't say surprised. I think, you know, NBA players, we can be pretty opinionated. And a lot of times when it comes to speaking out, there are, they are maybe on issues that don't directly impact us in a lot of ways. now we're talking about something that is, you know what, you have to put this into your body. And, you know, we're at a 95% NBA vaccination rate. So it's not to say that there's a whole lot of players that are saying, you know what, this isn't for me.

But when it does come to personal autonomy and being in the NBA, I'm sure, you know, there are guys who even were reluctant to take him that did take it. But the guys who are speaking out, it makes it more, you know, just potent that it is something now. That's not just, you're not just speaking on it, but it is. you know, pretty much in your backyard. Right. Now, the NBA is saying that unvaccinated players will be subject to a much stricter set of health and safety protocols compared to their vaccinated peers, including daily testing, which won't be required of fully vaccinated players. And then the league will continue at strict regulations this season for unvaccinated players. And then says, you know,

if you have to miss any games because you're not vaccinated in a certain city that requires it, you won't get paid for those games. So is that something that I guess you're just taking into stride and doing everything you can to kind of abide by your own contents, but also, you know, submit to the regulations that are being put in place? Yeah, I touched on it a little bit in the press conference where they were like, you know, what happens when the NBA does come out with these regulations? And, you know, I said the NBA is free to make those regulations.

And, you know, as a member of the NBA, I'm going to follow them. But my only point would be, to me, it doesn't logically. follow for us then to jump on the court or for me to be at a different locker room than my teammates, but then follow into the same tunnel and to go out to the game. It doesn't really make sense out. So you have to be in a different locker room, a different part of the bus because you're unvaccinated, but then you get on the court and you do, you know, what play you typically do. Exactly. I don't know all of the regulations that have been laid out, but I know some of them would be, you know, I'm not allowed to go to like team functions or if the team is,

at a restaurant, I can't eat in the same room as them. To me, it just doesn't logically follow for us then to get on the court together. And then again, for natural immunity to be ignored. And then again, all of this is coming about talking about a virus with such a high survival rate. And you've already had it. Exactly. And even if you take the vaccine, it does not stop, you know, infection or transmission. I'm not against the vaccine.

I think there absolutely are people who should take it. people who are afraid for either their health status, their lifestyle, or just, you know, what, I want to take this chance. I want to take this step to protect myself further. If I do come in contact with the virus, again, I'll be protected. And I want to say if you do come in contact with the virus, not an unvaccinated person. And I think that's what's been misconstrued, that if you come in contact with an unvaccinated person, that's the issue.

But it doesn't matter unvaccinated or vaccinated. you're going to come in contact with this virus again. It's not going anywhere. And then it's your decision to take that step to say, you know what, I want this vaccine to help protect me. I help protect people around me. But it should be everyone's right. Yeah.

And you're absolutely right. I mean, we've seen several studies that it doesn't actually stop the transmission. And you may also get infected if you've been vaccinated. What it does seem to do is reduce the chance of hospitalization. But hospitalization rates for people who are infected without the vaccine or without, having had the vaccine are extremely low anyway. So like you said, it does make sense for it to be a personal choice because you are taking a measure that will hopefully mitigate your risk of having serious illness, but you still, you could spread it to someone else. And so it doesn't seem

really like this societal responsibility that we're being told that it is. I've heard several Christians say that if you don't get the vaccine, then you're not loving your neighbor. And if you're not loving your neighbor, of course, Jesus says, you know, two great commands, love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself, then that's basically saying if you're not getting the vaccine, you're not a Christian. And so a lot of people are feeling pressure from that kind of theology. Some people are feeling from their pastors or whatever Christian influencers that if they don't do this thing that they don't want to do and maybe they feel like they don't need, then they're not really following the Lord or they're not loving their neighbor. What would your response be to that?

You know, there's a, there's the verses in the Bible where Jesus is talking about the Pharisees. And he's like, you know, you can discern the weather. You can discern these natural things, but you can't discern the signs of the times. And I think that's so, you know, needed right now, you know, just in the conversation of just the church and just Christian people, where it's like, listen, you know, no one is saying that the vaccine is wrong. No one is saying that the vaccine is deadly or anything, even though there is a chance of adverse. Even that conversation is not really being had where people in this country who have died, people who have come away with, you know, different ailments because of taking the vaccine. And maybe even they felt pressure to and didn't want to in the beginning.

But what is said to them if they walk away with an adverse reaction to the vaccine? But, you know, no one is saying there's anything wrong with the vaccine, but I really do think that this is a time for spiritual discernment to look at what's happening, to look at the precedent that's being set in as this thing snowballs and as there aren't people, you know, Christians or non-Christians to step up and say, you know what, this is not right. It sets a precedent for in the future, we're going to look up and say, well, what about my religious freedom? And there won't be any. And that's not, that's not to preach a glooming message because at the end of the day, Jesus is in control, Jesus is sovereign and not completely believe that. But I do believe that if we're

not careful with what we're saying, if we're not careful with discerning the signs of the times, we can walk ourselves into not having religious freedom or having our reasons for not doing things or wanting things a certain way to be delegated and for the government to be the judge jury and execution on if our reason is real or not. And so it is crazy. I don't think that you are any less Christian if you take the vaccine or not, but I would just ask for or just spiritual discernment to say, you know what, something is off. And as Christians, we have to be vigilant and we have to be understanding and discerning of the times to stand for our brothers and sisters who have taken the vaccine or haven't. Yep. I totally am with you. I mean,

it is an area of Christian liberty. Like you said, it's not unchristian to take it. It's not on Christ like not to take it. What I do find on Christ like is this kind of phariseical burden that some people are trying to put on others by saying, hey, you're not really a Christian and you don't really love your neighbor if you don't take this particular vaccine. You mentioned the Pharisees. It reminds me of the Pharisees, too, those burdens that they placed on people to try to say you have to reach this standard in order to be holy, in order to be loving, when they themselves weren't even truly obeying God from faith. And it reminds me of that as well. And like you said, it doesn't matter vaccination status. You can be able to see what's going on and still hold the line and still push back against it, knowing that it's

never wise to exchange a tiny possible promise of a semblance of temporary safety for all of your liberty. It is never worth that. Absolutely. You said it beautifully. You said it beautifully. Can you just end on some encouragement? You've already given a ton of encouragement, but people are feeling like, okay, we're losing our liberties. And yes, there are people like you who are speaking out, but a lot of people feel super powerless. And they're just looking at the state of the country and they're wondering, okay, is it all going to hell in a hand basket? It's crazy. Like the conversations I even have with my friends, one of my friends who has had COVID, who is not getting the vaccine, at least right now, she was like, I, you know, I wanted to go to New York with my friends.

And she can't. She, I mean, she won't have access to places. She won't be able to go to a show it's crazy that we've gotten there so quickly and that some people don't see what's going on and understandably people are feeling hopeless. So can you give us some hope? Can you remind us where our hope lies? Yeah, I would say that at the end of the day, what's going on right now, it proves without a doubt that your trust, that your hope, that your identity, that your, that your, your heart has to be somewhere that is greater than man. because at the end of the day, this is man that is carrying out these delegations or these regulations or these rules, whatever. But Jesus said, even though you will have trouble in the world, be of good cheer for I have overcome the world already. And so I would just plead with people to find your trust in Jesus, find your trust in something that is greater than man and what is more greater than man than God himself. So I would just say stay in coverage.

It may feel like hopelessness, but there are people who are out here that are trying their best to hold the line. And I believe that we're going to see a great revival through this as well as people begin to eyes be opened and they understand, man, what I thought before, what I wanted, I don't want anymore or what I thought before I don't think anymore. And they're going to be looking for salvation. They're going to be looking for help. They're going to be looking for the person that's going to stand by them. And so as Christians, be that person, be somebody who is going to stand on faith, that is going to be the light in this dark world that is only getting darker. And so I would just say, I would say keep on, keep on keeping. or keep the faith. Yeah. And just so live by faith and not by sight. So just be encouraged, be of good cheer. Jesus got us. Yeah.

And can you remind people last thing, but something that struck me and just surprised me so much is when you said that you were not someone that people used to know as outspoken or as a clear communicator of your ideas. And it seems so natural to you. Can you encourage people who maybe feel the same way that you did like, hey, I can't speak out or I can't be bold or I can't stand up because, you know, like Moses, I'm not, I'm not good at speaking up. I'm not good at communicating, but yours is a testament to the fact that God is going to use anyone that he wants to use and he's going to equip people however

he wants to equip them, right? For sure. There's a saying that's that said God does not call the equipped, that he equips the call. And I think that that is, that is something that's really needed to be said in this time and that God's strength is found in our weakness. God doesn't need us, God didn't need Moses to be perfect. Moses just needed God to be God. And so in this time, and it even goes into, I know I mentioned to you through our messages that I'm finishing up a book right now. And the book is called Why Stand? Oh, thank you for, thank you for bringing that up. Yes. Talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, the book is called Why Stand. And it does, it goes off of my decision to stand in the

bubble. And it talks about how, you know, when it happened, everyone was so, you know, Jonathan is so courageous, Jonathan. And so this, and even though there wasn't a lot of negativity that came about it, too, but the people who agree with me, that's what they were saying. You know, you're so bold. You're so courageous. And I'm saying, man, you don't know the half of the story of where I come from, the things that I've had to allow God to work out of me, to work in me, to deal with me on. And it takes people through the journey of where I was to how I came to faith. And faith has been the thing that has caused me to be able to speak, has caused me to be able to stand, because I know God for myself. I know that He's.

He loves me. I know that he's called me. I know that my faith, my, my salvation, my confidence, my boldness, my trust is all in him. And, you know, he's the only one that I'm trying to please. And so with the book, it's going to be coming. What's crazy too is it now kind of pales off of this, you know, this instance, this instance as well, that in this time, we're going to have to stand on what we believe, whether you're a Christian or not, there will come a time, you know, the Bible says, choose you today who you will serve. There will become a time where you have to stand on what it is that you believe, and you're going to have to know Jesus for yourself, or you will be swayed,

or you will go, you know, move like the ocean, move like the wind. So why stand is going to be coming out soon? I got a conversation. I got a call with the vice president of Simon & Schuster today later today about picking the book up. So I'm excited about that. But, you know, everything is great. I can't wait to get it out.

And hopefully I can be back on, you know, Allie, when it does come out and talk about. Definitely. Well, yes, please let us know the timeline for that so we can have you back on. I do, what you just said does remind me of this passage from Ephesians. So we'll just end with this, because you talked about if you don't stand in Jesus, then you are going to be persuaded and you are going to, you know, be tossed on the waves. And Ephesians 4 talks about that, that we are to grow into mature manhood to the measure of the stature of the foresight of the foresight of the future. fullness of Christ so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness and deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up into every way into him who is the head into Christ. That is something that you do very well as speaking the truth and love. So thank you. Thank you so much for

taking the time to talk to us. And thank you for holding the line in your own way. I really appreciate it. my pleasure again a little keep doing all that you do all the work that you put on the content that you put out thank you uh thanks again for having all right guys thank you so much for listening to that he is awesome i know i keep on i keep saying that but he just really is he is such a great example for all of us i'm not really a sports person but now i feel like i have someone to specifically cheer for and i know you guys were super excited about this too again tomorrow 500 episode, really excited. Call 682-503-1369. It needs to be before tomorrow morning, though, guys, because that's what time we record. We record in the morning comes out in the

afternoon. So before tomorrow morning, leave your voicemail saying what relatable has meant to you. We might play it tomorrow. Thank you guys to everyone, you know, who has already called us. We really appreciate that. Okay, we'll be back here tomorrow. See you guys then. Hey, this is Steve Dease. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers

wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed. You can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.