Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 520 | Vaccine Mandates: Anti-Freedom, Anti-Logic & Anti-Science | Guest: Ben Shapiro

Episode Date: November 9, 2021

Today we're discussing Joe Biden's vaccine mandate that's being pushed on workers by OSHA, as well as vaccine mandates in general. To shed some light on the situation, we welcome Ben Shapiro back to the show. Ben's company, the Daily Wire, is affected by the mandate, but it's already in full resistance mode, filing lawsuits to hopefully get the mandate overturned. Afterward, we go over some of the data from other countries showing that mask and vaccine mandates have little to no effect on case numbers, and we discuss the situation of Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rogers, who is under fire from the Left for his vaccine status. --- Timecodes: (0:00) Intro & update to Biden's vaccine mandate for companies with 100+ employees (9:45) Allie's interview with Ben Shapiro (30:00) Looking at the data of case numbers in the UK, Sweden, Florida, Oregon (47:00) COVID-19 vaccines for children 5-11 (57:27) Aaron Rodgers backlash --- Today's Sponsors: Bambee can change HR from your biggest liability as a small business owner, to your biggest strength! Let Bambee help - get your free HR audit today at Bambee.com/ALLIE. Good Ranchers exist to support local American farms that help you make great American meals for our family. And they want to restore the American ranch — and your meals — to their former glory. Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE & you'll get 10 FREE bistro filet medallions with your order. Plus, subscribe & save $25 on each box of mouth-watering American meats for life! And use promo code 'ALLIE' to get free express shipping! Dwell has built a beautiful listening & reading experience for the Scriptures. With over a dozen new recordings of the Bible, they've hand-picked voices that will engage and inspire you. It also features a read along experience which lets you read big, bold text accompanied by beautiful background art while you're listening to it being read at the same time. Go to DwellApp.io/RELATABLE to save 10% off a yearly subscription or 33% off Dwell for life! --- Past Episodes Mentioned: Ep 519: President Donald Trump on Witch Hunts, Family + Mean Tweets https://apple.co/31zXDxh Ep 506: Doctor Exposes Shocking Plot to Demonize Ivermectin | Guest: Dr. Pierre Kory https://apple.co/3bXp3ze Ep 496: 'Vaccine Apostles': How the COVID Cult Hurts People https://apple.co/31QDy6h Ep 486: EMERGENCY EPISODE: They've Pushed Too Far. Resist https://apple.co/3D865SA Ep 473: Carrie Underwood Gets It: Masks Don't Belong in Schools (with Data) https://apple.co/3EV4lME --- Show Links: Wall Street Journal: "Rising COVID-19 Breakthrough Cases Hinder Efforts to Control Virus" https://on.wsj.com/3mXxEYS Google + Ireland + COVID + cases https://bit.ly/30c3OqY @ianmSC's tweet re: Australia lockdowns & case count https://bit.ly/3H7oGjJ Fox News: "Florida Hospital Celebrates Zero COVID Patients For First Time Since 2020" https://fxn.ws/3D1CkTg TheBlaze: "Horowitz: FDA's Own Pfizer Approval Document Suggest Myocarditis From Shot Might Be Bigger Threat Than COVID" https://bit.ly/3bYjY9H Reuters: "Finland Joins Sweden and Denmark in Limiting Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine" https://reut.rs/3odSzq3 TheBlaze: "Aaron Rodgers Blasts Leftists for Ripping Vaccines Under Trump Then Loving Them Under Biden — to the Point Where the 'Woke Mob' is Conducting a 'Witch Hunt'" https://bit.ly/3bYvMZQ --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week. So my surprise guest yesterday, I know that a lot of you guys were shocked.

I had a lot of different guesses as to who it could be last week when I put it out there that I was having. a big surprise guest and most of you didn't think that it would be that big of a guest. And so I loved seeing y'all's reactions. I had the whole plan that I wasn't going to, at least on the listening side, I wasn't going to put his name in the title. I wasn't going to put in the description. I wasn't going to announce it on social media, at least until a lot of you had already downloaded it. The most faithful listeners I knew were going to be the people that were going to be pleased by the surprise the most. And, We're going to enjoy not knowing who it was.

And I just loved the idea of you not knowing that it was going to be Trump until you heard his voice. And just the messages that I got from you guys saying that you screamed, that you couldn't believe it, that you felt like you needed to pull over on the side of the road. That's exactly what I wanted. That was exactly what I wanted. And so thank you for all of the sweet messages and for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. No matter what your view is on Trump, whether or not you voted for Trump, I appreciate that you appreciated the significance of that conversation.

And as for everyone saying, you know, you should have asked them this or if there weren't really that many people sending me those kinds of messages, but a few messages and comments, of course, saying, why didn't you ask in this? Why didn't you bring up this? Why didn't you push back on this? I only had 15 minutes. We actually went a little over. he was gracious with his time. We had a little over 15 minutes and there were a lot of questions

that I wanted to get to. And you know if you press in on one particular point that the interviewee makes, then you're going to spend several more minutes on that. Those are several minutes that you can't then use to ask the other questions that you want. Now maybe one day I will have the wonderful opportunity to sit down with him for an hour or longer and I can ask him all of the questions that I want to ask him. There are so many things that I wanted to press in on that he brought up that we just didn't have time to. So I wanted to talk about some news items, a couple political things. And then I also wanted to ask him questions that you may have not heard other people ask him before. Like how does he maintain the relationships with his family

members that he seems to have done so successfully for so long? So if you haven't listened to that, definitely go back and listen to yesterday's episode. It's obviously no longer a surprise. And you can watch it on YouTube as well. And it was just, it was such a great fun opportunity. He is so, when people ask me, my friends texted me afterward asking me how it went, I just said he's just Trump. Like he just is who he is. He's consistent.

No matter who he's talking to, no matter what he's talking about, he is going to be true to himself and true to his personality. And that in itself, I think, is something to admire him for. All right. Today we are going to talk to another guest, another big name guest, and that is Ben Shapiro about Joe Biden's vaccine mandate that requires companies with 100 employees or more to require vaccines or weekly testing and constant masking for their employees that officially took effect last Friday.

So he's going to break down for us what it is, what it means. There's no one that can explain these complicated matters better than Ben Shapiro. He is going to talk about what the governors and the companies. are doing to push back. But we recorded that actually on Friday. And while all the information is still accurate and relevant that you're going to hear him convey, there has been a development that I just want to say before we actually start that conversation. After the conversation, I'm going to talk some more about news surrounding the vaccines, the numbers surrounding the vaccines, why a lot of this just isn't adding up what's going on there. Vaccines in regards to children and some of the

mandates coming down the pipeline with that. So we have more to talk about after I talk about or after I talk to Ben. But before we talk to Ben, let me just say that the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals has blocked the mandate from going into place. However, the Biden administration is saying that this decision by the Fifth Circuit appellate court shouldn't stop companies from implementing the new rule while the courts are working it out. This is at least the second time the Biden administration is tried to go around judicial decisions. They tried to enact an eviction moratorium at the expense of working class landlords, even when the Supreme Court ruled that they and the CDC had no authority to do so. They said, well, we're just going to do it anyway. We're just going to,

we're just going to make sure that landlords cannot evict the tenants who aren't paying rent anyway. 70% of landlords are just working class people who manage one or two properties. There are not some rich misers who are, you know, managing millions of properties for millions of dollars. That's just not true of landlords. And it's not fair to say that you're not allowed to collect rent from tenants who are refusing to pay and who have been given multiple stimulus checks. By the way, for at least one of the purposes of the stimulus checks is to or was to give people the ability to do things like pay rent.

And so they were punishing landlords for really no reason trying to say that you can't evict people who are not paying their rent. Supreme Court said you can't do that. The Biden administration said, oh, we're going to do it anyway. They're doing the same thing here. They're ignoring this decision by the Fifth Circuit appellate court. And they're saying, oh, we're going to try to implement the rule anyway. Trump was called an authoritarian for far less, by the way. when you have an administration, when you have a power that is circumventing the checks and balances

that were put in place in order to stop tyrants from enacting totalitarian power, that makes you a tyrant, right? Like that makes you an authoritarian. And yet you don't see the left complaining about this because as I've said before, I've noticed that among our leftist friends, they call authoritarian simply things they don't So they'll call, for example, the abortion law in Texas, which was passed by duly elected officials in Texas. They'll call that authoritarian, but they won't call the executive branch going past circumventing the checks and balances put in place and placed before them by the judicial branch. They just want to do what they want to do.

So they're going to do it. You don't hear authoritarian calling the president. You don't hear leftists calling the president and authoritarian because of that. So it's a little bit of hypocrisy. Anyway, there's still a ways to go with this mandate before we see if it will actually hold. We're going to go to Ben Shapiro, as I said, to explain this all for us. And then we'll talk about some more crazy COVID news. Hey, this is Steve Day.

If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Ben, thank you so much for joining us. All right. Tell us what's going on with this whole OSHA thing. President Biden talked about it. He talked about it a couple months ago. I think people thought that was, you know, the official mandate. But now people are freaking out again. So what's going on?

So they actually put out the text. of the OSHA mandate yesterday and then officially today. And the OSHA mandate is a lot more strenuous than I think a lot of people thought it was going to be. It kicks into effect formally January 4th. So all employers with over 100 employees have to get the Vax records of all of their employees. If you're vaxed, then you're fine. If you're not Vaxed, then you have a couple of options. One is to either get tested every week and wear a mask for the rest of time, apparently.

And the other is that you can be fired, right? Those are the only two options. So there is no option where you stay. unvaccinated and you're not checking in with your company every single week, which of course is an attempt to intimidate people into getting vaccinated. So we at the Daily Wire, we feel that it is your prerogative to decide whether or not you wish to be vaccinated. It's one thing to say that you should get yourself vaccinated just as a matter of advice. I've been saying that all along. I'm my wife's faxed. My parents are vaxed. I think that virtually all adults should be vaxed.

I think it's a good idea. However, that is a big difference from saying I as an employer, I'm going to mandate that my employees get faxed, particularly since I'm already safe. I'm no longer worried about COVID because I am double-vaxed. I'm not worried about any of my employees getting COVID because if they want to get fax, they are faxed. If they don't want to get faxed, they don't have to vacs. And guess what? That is their decision.

And now Pfizer is coming out with a pill apparently that reduces hospitalization and death by at least 90% after you're diagnosed with COVID. So I don't even know what the Biden administration is seeking to accomplish her other than top-down command and control and punishing businesses that wish their employees to be able to live their own lives. Okay, so you just explain how this is illogical, but something that you say a lot is that we should not ascribe to malice what we can ascribe to stupidity. But I don't think that the people making this regulation are stupid. So what do you think? Is it malicious?

I mean, I do think this one's malicious. It's hard to see it as anything other than malicious. I really suspect that the Biden administration does not believe, excuse me, I really suspect that the Biden administration doesn't even believe this is going to go into effect. I think that Joe Biden is putting this out there for effect so he can. can say to his constituents that he did his best to force everyone to vaccinate, that he's using the federal government as far as he can use it, sort of how he used the CDC eviction moratorium, even after stating and knowing that it was unconstitutional. I think he's sort of doing the same thing here. And the proof is in the pudding. He's doing this under an emergency temporary

standard. Well, he declared two months ago that he was going to be putting forth an emergency temporary standard. This doesn't go into a fact for another two months. So when was the last time you had a bleeding emergency in your life? Like a serious emergency in your life. And you said, okay, I'm making an announcement. In two months, I'm going to make an announcement about that emergency. And two months after that, there will be something that comes forward that actually is intended to address the emergency. That is definitionally not an emergency temporary measure. It seems more like grandstanding to me than anything else. But it's going to do an awful lot of damage to businesses if it's ever kicked into place because the kind of fines they're talking about levying against

businesses are utterly insane. It's like $14,000 per offense. And if it's deemed a willful offense, it's like $140,000. And let's back up a little bit. What is, OSHA, is this something that has happened before? So emergency temporary standards under OSHA. So OSHA is the occupational safety and health administration. It was created by an act of Congress. And the basic idea was that they could create workplace safety rules. So when you walk into a restaurant, you see a sign on the bathroom wall that says you need to wash

your hands before you go back to work, that's usually because of an OSHA regulation. Or if there are regulations, that there can't be asbestos in the workplace. That's usually because of OSHA. But OSHA was not given the power to simply declare that for literally 100 million, million people. We are going to force you to mask up or vaccinate. There's nothing in OSHA's purview that suggests that they are able to seize state power like this. So there are a few constitutional issues. One, if the legislature wants to do this, it's the legislature's job to do this. A broad piece of enabling legislation cannot be interpreted this way. There's an administrative law issue here.

Then there's the federalist issue, which is typically if you have a state vaccine mandate, it is done by the states. This is why all of those idiots in the media, who you will see saying that the OSHA regulation is probably legal. And then they say to Supreme Court case from the early 20th century about the state of Massachusetts and a vaccine mandate. Notice, that's a state. States have a different set of powers than the federal government, which was never given this sort of power. So there are a bunch of ways in which this is illegal. And then again, OSHA has tried to use the emergency temporary standards before, something like six times since the 1980s. It's been rejected by courts every single time. Every time they overstep with an emergency temporary standard

because they don't go through the proper response process. When you create a regulation, usually you have to solicit public response and the public gets to sound off. And then there's a bunch of go-around. With an emergency temporary standard, you just go right around that entire process. It's not clear, again, because they're delaying it so long that this even falls under the ETS standards. So temporary is in the name. Do you think it's going to stay temporary or do you think that the government intends for it to stay temporary? I mean, if they had their way, absolutely not.

So right in the OSHA regulation, it's a 490-page regulation. Right in the regulation, they say that we are interested in making a permanent rule. And some of the questions they're asking about the permanent rule are far stricter than anything that they are saying in the temporary rule. So, for example, right now, if you don't want to get vaccinated, theoretically, you could test once a week at your own expense and then show it to your employer. The permanent rule, they're actually openly acknowledging the possibility they get rid of that opt out. They just force you to get vaccinated. That if you don't get your employees vaccinated, then you have to fire them. They're saying that they might extend it to all businesses with under 100 employees.

They're saying that they might change the standards with regard to what type of mask you can wear. So right now, it's basically any cloth mask that you can make at home. And they're saying, well, maybe we'll up it to a can $9.95 or an $9.95. You never know. And so when they make these standards permanent, if they try to, they'll probably become more strict, not less. Right, right. And so you're pushing back on this. You're not going to enforce your employees who are not vaccinated to get vaccinated

in order to stay employed or even to test once a week, correct? That's right. So we were firing a federal lawsuit. We have federal lawsuit, the legal advisors who are working with us, our law firms, our Dylan Law Group, as well as ADF, the Alliance Defending Freedom. And we filed a federal lawsuit literally the day that the regulation was promulgated with the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and we will be pursuing that with alacrity for as long as the regulation remains on the books. We're not the only ones, obviously.

You've seen governors of many states who are also sounding off and saying that they're not going to participate in this and creating conflict of law situations by passing regulations saying that employers are not allowed to mandate that their employees get back. facts, for example. So when governors say that they're not going to participate in this, does that actually protect the people in their state? I've got friends who are still dealing with their companies trying to mandate the vaccine or the weekly testing or whatever other onerous burden. They want to place on their employees, even though they're living in Republican states that have supposedly banned these vaccine mandates. So do they have any relation?

from their governors saying, no, we're not going to participate in this or no? So unclear. So one thing that governors are saying is we're not going to help you out, right? In much the same way the Democratic cities have said that they are sanctuary cities for illegal immigration. A lot of Republican governors are saying, listen, you want to come enforce this? You're going to have to do it yourself. You're going to have to send OSHA agents to every place of employment in our state. We are not going to facilitate any of this. So that's helpful in the sense that OSHA obviously can't audit everyone. And they're probably going to be relying on disgruntled employees to send tips into OSHA to punish their companies.

So that's somewhat helpful. The other thing that states have been doing is they're passing laws that are forcing employers not to do it. So that creates a conflict of law situation where if you're an employer, do you decide to violate federal regulations or state law? So if a court sees that, it's possible that a court says, okay, well, we can't hold you responsible for a fine if your state is literally banning you from performing the act that the federal government mandates of you to have a pretty significant federalism conflict. I think more states are going to create those federalism conflicts specifically so that they can give businesses the act. out. So you seem pretty optimistic that this is not actually going to go through. What do you think is going to be the most effective pushback? Is it going to be the governors? Is it going to be corporations like yours pushing back? Is it going to be a cumulative effect of all of these different

forces pushing back against this? What's going to do it? I mean, I think it's going to be all of it. So obviously, we are putting special focus on the courts because I think that if a court strikes down the regulation, we're done. And then nobody has to worry about it again. And that goes into effect for everyone. So that's kind of chief mode of attack. We also obviously are pushing Republican senators very hard and Democratic senators to use the Congressional Review Act to strike down the regulation or at least get these jerks on record as to whether they support the regulation in the first place because Congress has an interest in kicking responsibility to unelected bureaucrats in the administrative agencies. We want to hold them to account

on that. Now, business is refusing to comply. Sorry, Congressional Review Act. Sorry, Congressional Review Act. I think that's what I heard you say that people should be calling their senators, Republican or Democrat, their representatives to tell them that they want a congressional review act. Can you just detail a little bit more? What exactly that would do? Sure. So the Senate of the United States is allowed to review and reject regulations promulgated by administrative agencies. So remember, administrative agencies only were enabled to do certain things by Congress. They didn't really exist under the original constitutional structure in the early 20th century.

All of these new agencies are built inside the executive branch by the legislature. The legislature says, okay, we want there to be, for example, a food and drug administration, and their job is to make sure that your food is clean. So what Congress can do under the Congressional Review Act is they can say the FDA went too far. You've gone beyond your mandate, and now we are taking back some of that power. So the Congressional Review Act allows the Senate of the United States to vote by pure majority to strike down any regulation. The President of the United States, unfortunately, then has the capacity to veto that, and then you have to have a super majority in order to overcome that veto. So it really is super backwards because really the Congress should be able to, without the president, just reject that authority because, again, it really was up to Congress to determine whether that administrative agency is acting within the purview of authority Congress gave it in the first place. That really shouldn't be up to the executive per se. But the Congressional Review Act, theoretically, if you had a super majority of senators who are willing to strike down a regulation, then the regulation goes down even though Joe Biden is promulgating it.

Okay. So you said that's part of it. And then you said corporations like yours and you said states pushing back, you think all of that. it together is going to be what actually shuts this thing down. So can you continue on that a little bit? Yeah, I mean, I think that the more corporations say we're not going to do this, the harder it's going to be to enforce. It's sort of like if everybody in the United States one day said, you know, what, we're not paying our taxes. The IRS just does not have the enforcement. They can make some examples out of people. They don't have the enforcement power to come after everybody. And I think that that is becoming clear. Also, the downstream economic effect of employers saying that we are not going to do this or that if you force us to do this, that we're going to have to shut up.

our doors, that's going to be pretty bad for the Biden administration. Creating supply chain crises, I mean, if this policy goes into place, it's going to ding the economy in a very severe way. If you think there's an under supply of labor right now, wait until corporations are being forced to lay off 20% of their workforce because Joe Biden says that you have to fire people to get them vaxed. And why doesn't he care about that? I mean, surely they know that that is going to be an effect of all of this. Why don't they care? So again, I think that this is all a ploy. I don't actually think the Biden administration wants this thing promulgated. I think that they've made it very strong and very rigid because they want it struck down. Now, there is a silver

lining here, and this is what I'm hoping for. I'm hoping that through all of this, not only does the regulation get struck down, but also the Supreme Court uses this as an excellent opportunity to strike down the so-called Chevron doctrine. So the Chevron Doctrine is a very controversial point in American administrative law. It basically suggests that when the Congress gives power to a regulatory agency, they create an act like the OSHA Act, and they give power to OSHA, and it's this very broad law saying, you get to make workplaces safe. And now, OSHA, gets to interpret what that means. Chevron, this case by the Supreme Court in the 80s, the Chevron doctrine says, the administrative agency cannot then be questioned in court.

The administrative agency has its own courts, and you have to go through the administrative agency and challenge the administrative agency within the administrative agency. They are best placed to determine the interpretation of their own enabling statute, and anyway, Congress can strike it down and all the rest. The Chevron doctrine is super controversial. There's certainly a majority on the Supreme Court to strike down the Chevron doctrine, which would mean that any time a regulatory agency exceeds its authority, You wouldn't need to go to the legislative agency or to Congress to lobby.

Instead, you would just challenge it in court, and the court would strike down the regulation as outside the purview entirely. They could just look at it and say this is not regulatory. This is not regulatory related to the original purpose of the statute. And that would be a really good thing. So I'm hoping the Chevron Doctrine goes down on this basis. How quickly do you think this is going to make it to the Supreme Court? Fast. Really, really fast.

I mean, it's going to kick into place January 4th. I think that within a month, you're supposed to start seeing some of the preliminary effect of it. So it depends on whether one of the games the Biden administration is playing here is by making it only effective January 4th. What they're attempting to do is state of courts don't adjudicate it until January 4th, right? Wait until after the holidays, then adjudicate it because there's no specific harm that has actually accrued to anyone at this point, right? I mean, it just went into effect. Nobody's getting fired. So if there's no specific harm, you can't have a case or controversy under the Constitution.

So I think they're trying to delay it. I don't know that courts are going to buy that. If courts don't buy that, then we could get rulings on this thing pretty quickly. It could get elevated to the Supreme Court on a fast track, the same way that the CDC eviction moratorium got elevated to the Supreme Court on a fast track. So what individuals do in the meantime, they don't want to get vaccinated, but they're facing this ultimatum. What do they do?

I mean, right now it depends on if you feel like complying with the mandate. If you don't want to comply with the mandate, then you can wait and you can see and you can, you know, stick with us and hope that the regulations get struck down. If you are deeply worried about the vaccine mandate and you really need to put food on the table, you are between a rock and a hard place, which is exactly what the Biden administration wants you to feel like. They want you to feel like you must get vaxed or you're going to lose your job. And then they will brag about how they got you vaxed and how they've saved your life in the process. Again, this is all pretty wild stuff, considering that you are a rational human being capable of deciding your own

health factors. And worst case scenario, if this does go into place, what are some of the short-term, long-term implications that go just beyond this rule? Specifically, people are thinking about their kids. I mean, maybe that has nothing to do with OSHA, but just kind of this principle that the federal government can force this kind of thing in a variety of workarounds in a variety of ways. People are really worried about that for their children. And they should be worried about that. San Francisco just essentially mandated that all five through 11-year-olds have to be vaccinated to go to school. So I think that that is going to become a common talk with the Biden administration. I'm hopeful that the practicalities on the ground are going to push back against that.

Obviously, the new Pfizer oral therapeutic, I think, is going to help along these lines. But again, kids were never really at risk from COVID in a very serious way. So I've been worried about that ever since Pfizer announced that this was going to be effective in five to 11-year-olds. It's not that it's bad that it's there, but that there are just people out there who want to force you and your kids to do things. And they don't have any concerns about your liberty or freedom. Yeah, absolutely. Well, can you end us on? I know you already kind of gave us some silver linings and you guys are pushing back.

But can you give us a little bit more hope? People are really worked up and really afraid right now. People have a lot on the line. Tell us how hopeful you are that people are going to be able to hopefully retain their jobs and their livelihood and that this isn't. the end of liberty forever. I mean, I think that I'm very hopeful. I think the regulation gets struck down. I think that the big silver lining here that we haven't talked about, really,

is that if corporations decide to push these sorts of mandates inside their companies without the federal government or just because Joe Biden said so, then I think there are going to be new conservative companies that spring up where freedom is still a priority. And the big sort that's been happening broadly across the country, which I think is a good thing, is going to extend into the market arena. And I'm not sure that's a bad thing either. Yeah, I hope so. Man, especially for health care workers and all of that.

There's a lot of people that have lost a lot due to this. Thank you so much for breaking that all down. So clearly it was super helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us. Thanks, Ellie. All right, hope you enjoyed that conversation. He is so good at explaining all of that. He explained it very quickly, as he typically does.

He might have to turn it on half time to really take in and take notes on what he is saying. I always, you know, I block out a certain amount of time for these interviews. I always know when I'm interviewing Ben Shapiro, it's probably going to be five minutes less than what I originally planned for, which is perfectly fine with me. I have trained myself to try to keep up with Ben Shapiro's fast-talking explanations. All right. So not only does this mandate not make any legal sense. It also doesn't make any logical or scientific sense.

Here's a report out of the Wall Street Journal, quote, COVID-19 infections among vaccine people are complicating the fight to bring the coronavirus under control. And then the UK, where the path of disease has been more closely tracked than just about anywhere in the world, they are on the rise. So according to our world and data in Johns Hopkins University, the vaccination rate in the UK is 68% and 75% have at least one dose of the vaccine. That's higher than the U.S. where the vaccination rate is like 58% with 60%. with at least one dose. That's still a lot and above the age of 70 years old. It's like almost

100% of Americans have gotten the vaccine. General population though, the majority has. And yet the UK is even higher. But if you look at the at the case numbers for the UK, they're almost as high as they were at the peak back in January of 2021. From about February to June of 2021, when vaccination was much lower in the UK cases were at their lowest, since they were at their lowest since the beginning of COVID in March 2020. Now, thankfully, if you look at the death rate in the UK, it is much lower than it was in January, but it's higher than it was over the summer when, again, the vaccination rate was much lower than it is now. Let's look at Australia, where in many cases, in many regions, there are intense restrictions such as vaccine passports, mask mandates,

lockdowns, travel restrictions that are inhibiting people from going to visit dying family members in other parts of the country. I read a terrible story on Instagram about this woman. She doesn't seem political at all. She doesn't seem to be making any kind of political statement. She is vaccinated. She wanted to travel to another part of Australia to see her dying father who is in hospice. And she had to prove to authorities that her father was actually dying in order. to be able to travel there and see him before he died. And she tried to show them proof. She got a letter from her father's doctor. And still, the authority said, oh, no, that's not good enough. We don't actually believe you. This is a vaccinated person, by the way. We don't actually believe you that

that's why you might be traveling to this other part of Australia. And so we're not going to let you. What? You think that's for health? You think this is about compassion? In Australia, that's the same place where a year ago, their travel restrictions actually stopped babies who needed emergent care from getting the care that they needed because they were unable to travel to the parts of the country where that kind of care was accessible. So people have died because of these restrictions and you're telling me that this is because of health. Now, the death rate from COVID in Australia is extremely low, has been since the beginning. But it is higher now in Australia than it was in October 2020, all the way to July of 2021, in which there were no recorded deaths.

And most of that time was spent without widespread vaccination. And now 68% of its population is fully vaccinated in the death rate is higher. EMSC on Twitter, he only talks about COVID. So I recommend that follow. It's very interesting. He just puts graphs together made from publicly available data. He doesn't even make these political. statements. He doesn't seem ideologically, you know, he doesn't seem ideologically bent in one

direction when it comes to COVID. He just tweets the publicly available data. And then he parallels that to the restrictions that have been put in place, making the point that look, these restrictions that have been put in place in a variety of states and countries in the world don't seem to be having any kind of positive effect on COVID transmission. So he, graphed the COVID case numbers in Australia and then placed when the various lockdowns across Australia were put into place. And as you can see, we'll show it on, we'll show it on YouTube. As you can see, there is no correlation between lockdowns in case numbers. The case numbers continue to rise despite the lockdowns. In Ireland, 75% of the eligible population is fully vaccinated.

And according to Johns Hopkins, their case count is. is as high now as it's been since January when less than 1% of the population was fully vaccinated. Now, thankfully, again, deaths in Ireland have remained low, but the death rate was zero back in May when less than 10% of the population was fully vaccinated. All you have to do to find this information, by the way, is just type into Google Ireland COVID cases, Ireland vaccination rates, and you look for yourself. It's all there. Let's also look at the curious case of Singapore, where 83% of their population is fully vaccinated, one of the most vaccinated countries in the world, the most vaccinated country in the world. Right now,

they are at their peak in both cases and deaths. Okay? Think about that. They're at their peak. Look all the way back to March of 2020. They're currently at their peak for cases and deaths. one of the highest rates of vaccination in the world. Look this up and Google will pull up the data for you compiled from Johns Hopkins, our world and data, and the New York Times. And it's the same story in many other countries with high vaccination rates, Iceland, Germany, Finland,

all of these super rare breakthrough cases that are seriously complicating this idea that mandating vaccines is going to stop the spread. In the United States, the most vaccinated state is. Vermont, 72% fully vaccinated. They are currently, they're right now hitting their peak in case numbers. Higher than January of this year when hardly anyone was vaccinated. The highest numbers we've seen in Vermont the entire pandemic. Same with deaths. The deaths are low. That's good. They've always been low in Vermont. But the rate is as high. The death rate is as high as it's been since March of 2020. Now, what do we see when we look at a state like

Vermont, we see that cases and deaths got down to pretty much zero during the summer months of 2020 and the summer months of 2021. And they've gone up significantly in winter months. And let's see, what do we see in other states that tend to have harsh winters? Let's see what Google tells us. Illinois, yes, Pennsylvania, yes, Wisconsin, yes, Michigan, yes, following the same kind of pattern. And then just for fun, let's see what's happening in Texas, Florida, Arkansas, Georgia, those southern states with very hot summers. Well, it looks like these states hit a peak in case and death numbers toward the end of the summer in August of this year, and they're now coming back down. So could it be, just based on what we can easily observe, that this virus, like mini viruses, spreads more easily when people tend to be indoors? So in the summer months, people in the southern states spend a lot of time inside.

It is not fun to go outside sometimes even. The pool is hot because it's over 100 degrees, several days in a row. So people are spending a lot of time inside. In the fall in winter months, people in northern states spend a lot of time inside. So could it be that this is affected by seasonality? This is affected by people's behavior based on the weather, that it's simply going to spread based on. on whether or not people are spending a good amount of time inside.

See, right now in southern states, it's in the 70s. It's in the 60s. So people are spending a lot of time outside. So it makes sense that it would have peaked in August in those hot southern states. And now it's leveling off. And now COVID is getting a lot worse in those northern states, even in the northern states where the vast majority of people are vaccinated. People were calling Ronda Santis, death Santis.

They were accusing him of killing people back in August. when the cases and deaths were so high in Florida, when he said that schools were not allowed to force masks. Now, remember, he didn't say that people couldn't wear masks. He didn't say that parents couldn't have their kids wear masks. He just said, schools, you can't force students to wear masks. And oh, my gosh, you, I mean, people called him a tyrant. People called him an authoritarian.

People called Greg Abbott, the same thing for making the same rule for simply saying, look, I'm protecting an individual choice. These entities can't actually force people to wear masks. I mean, calling him a totalitarian, calling them totalitarians. When, again, at the same time, if you look at the actions of the Biden administration, they're far more tyrannical and authoritarian than anything that Ron DeSantis or Greg Abbott have done. DeSantis's critic said that he was murdering children by not allowing schools to force these

masks. An absolutely absurd claim that has no basis, in fact. link the previous episode that I've done looking at all of the data on mask wearing. There is no study that shows that mask mandates and in particular mask mandates for kids have saved any lives. Again, like if you look at the graphs of, if you look at the graphs of cases and deaths for states that have had mask mandates versus graphs of cases and deaths for states that have not had mask mandates, it's very hard to tell the difference. It's very difficult to tell the difference between those states that have had mask mandates and that have it.

There's really no study that shows that it is saving lives. DeSantis refused to lock down. He refused to go along with the vaccine mandates. He did encourage people to get vaccinated. He made it very easy for people to get vaccinated. He made sure that people had access to monoclonal antibodies. You know, that life-saving treatment, that the Biden administration, they reduced their supply of those antibodies to,

southern states like Texas and Florida, it seems like for punitive partisan reasons, which again, talk about tyrannical and just cruel. But here's some headlines about Ron DeSantis, this evil, murderous guy from back in August when the cases and the death counts were high. New York Times. As COVID surges in Florida, DeSantis refuses to change course. New York Times. Ron DeSantis, how many COVID deaths are enough? New York Times. What went wrong with the pandemic in Florida. Washington Post. DeSantis criticizes masks, restrictions, as coronavirus roars to record levels in Florida. Washington Post. DeSantis blames Florida surge on COVID season. That's misleading, experts say. Is it misleading though? Is it based on the data we have? Now Florida has the lowest case rate

in the nation. According to Fox News, quote, the first hospital in the state of Florida to treat a coronavirus patient is now celebrating another first. No COVID patients in its care since the pandemic began. Christina Pusha, who is Rhonda Sampis's spokesperson, said this to Fox. This is great news. For two weeks in counting, Florida has had the lowest rate of new COVID-19 cases in the entire country, with no mandates, no vaccine passports, or lockdowns. Overall, COVID hospitalizations have been declining for more than 70 days straight,

and we're at an all-time low in terms of the number of COVID patients hospitalized state-wide. Now, should it really be partisan that people are celebrating that? I don't think so. Shouldn't everyone be excited about that? Now, you have to wonder, why wasn't Oregon getting the same kind of media treatment? Florida was in August. Oregon also had their highest COVID case rate in August of the entire pandemic. Their death numbers peaked just last month, despite having had almost 70% of the state's population vaccinated. Oregon was the first state to reimpose a mask mandate indoors and outdoors for everyone,

regardless of vaccination status in August. And that is, of course, why the media aren't talking about how irresponsible Governor Kate Brown is, because the media don't actually care what works. They don't actually care what works. They don't care about the numbers. They believe that placing heavy restrictions on people is responsible. It's righteous regardless of the outcome, regardless of whether it's proving to be effective based on data

because they've learned, I guess, this is a way to make Democrats seem good and Republicans seem bad and calloused without actually having to make any factual substantive argument. Let's also note something about the country of Sweden, who has stood apart in their COVID response. Let's know that Sweden ranks 54th in the world in COVID deaths per million below the United States, below France, and many other countries with all kinds of COVID restrictions like mask mandates, vaccine passports. And Sweden does not have and has never had any of those restrictions. So none of this makes a whole lot of sense from a public health perspective, does it? If the vaccine does at least stop the severity of symptoms, then great.

You should absolutely be able to get it. I'm okay with the government encouraging people to get it. I'm okay with there being an entire campaign of encouragement to get this shot. If that's what the government wanted to do, that's fine. And if it's really effective, then your power of persuasion should be able to get people to be able to get it for themselves. you can get two plus boosters every few months. Since we now know that the vaccine, that vaccine immunity weighing significantly after a few months,

you'll have to get those boosters. And that's fine. I think it makes more sense for some than others. Just what we know about the data, what we know about the comorbidities with this disease associated with COVID, but it's your choice and it should remain your choice. All right, let me read you this very interesting report from the LA Times says this, that records of 80,000 U.S. veterans were studied and the researchers found that as the Delta

variant first started spreading, the three vaccines were roughly equal in their ability to prevent infections, but this decreases rapidly in just six months. So by the end of September, modernist two dose COVID-19 vaccine measured as 89% effective in March, it was now only 58% effective. The effectiveness of shots made by Pfizer and Biointech, which also employed two doses fell from 87% to 45% in the same period. The Johnson & Johnson single-dose vaccine plunged from 86% to just 13% over those six months. And remember, as we have learned from the New York Times and a huge Israel pre-prints

study, natural immunity. So if you have been infected, the immunity that you've gotten from actually being infected with COVID lasts much longer than that. It can last a year, maybe more than that. It depends on the severity of the infection that you had. It depends on, you know, your own biological makeup. It might be different for everyone, but it's pretty reliable. Based on the data that we have, that natural immunity is very strong. So when the president and when Democrats say, and when world leaders say, I guess they got some email blast telling them that this is the talking point, that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. That's just not factually true. These people who say follow the science, they're not following the science.

So why should something that may help you and only you be mandatory? Why should it be mandatory? Don't tell me that it has to do with protecting the babies. who can't get vaccinated. Like, again, follow the science, follow the data, guys. The virus is so insanely unthreatening to children, much less threatening than RSV and the flu. RSV is much more dangerous to babies. In fact, that's why you saw, again, over the summer, this surge in, in, in, in, pick you numbers.

It's not actually because of serious cases of COVID, for the most part. It was because of RSV. RSV. It was very strangely surging over the summer, both of my kids. Unfortunately, got RSV. Thankfully, we avoided the hospital. But for a lot of babies who catch RSV, they do have to go into the hospital. And have we been clamoring to get a mandate a vaccine for that?

Something that is far more dangerous again for kids, something that is easily passed from adults to kids? Why haven't we been talking about the urgency for that? So don't tell me that we have to mandate. these vaccines to protect the kids who can't be vaccinated yet when we know that for the most part, this is a non-threatening virus for them. And San Francisco and now New York, while New York is considering it, San Francisco is definitely doing it requiring proof of vaccination status for five to 11-year-olds to enter businesses. I mean, children are the most marginalized group in the

entire world, children of every race. They are the most likely victims of abuse, of sex trafficking, of neglect, marginalization in every sense of the word. Children around the world are most likely to be victims of it. And now we're pushing them even further to the outskirts of society by telling them if you don't have a vaccine that still doesn't have a whole lot of safety data. It doesn't have enough safety data at least for parents to feel comfortable and giving it to their kids.

you're going to you're going to say that if a kid doesn't get that a vaccine that he or she probably doesn't even need that they can't go into a business. Are you serious? University of Minnesota Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy found that a study in clinical infectious diseases yesterday shows that children are unlikely to be the source. So this is actually from last year this came out, that children are unlikely to be the source of COVID-19 household outbreaks and are less likely to be infected with SARS-CoV-2 by another household member with implications for vaccine distribution. So this was a study that came out last year. This is something we have known for a very long time. And not only are we seeing some parts of the country

try to mandate this vaccination in certain school districts and require a passport for these kids to be entering into stores, they're ignoring, they're ignoring the science that we have known about kids and the spread of COVID. We've known it for a very long time. We've known that schools are not primary drivers of COVID, either from students to teacher or vice versa. And there's also still the risk of myocarditis for kids. Daniel Horowitz has been following COVID and COVID policy very closely at the blaze. He writes this for the blazes. site. In Pfizer's FDA briefing document prepared for the October 25th meeting was an admission that even according to the company's own verified and misleading math, there is a scenario where

there would be more hospitalizations among children for myocarditis, just one side effect, than from COVID. Under scenario three, the document says, the model predicts more excess hospitalizations due to vaccine-related myocarditis, paracarditis, compared to prevented hospitalizations due to COVID-19 and males and in both sexes combined states Pfizer in page 33 of the document. I'll link to Horowitz's article so you can read it for yourself. It has also linked the Pfizer document and so you'll be able to read that for yourself. He goes on to say already in March, 42% of children 5 to 17 have had the virus according to the CDC

and that number is likely much higher following the prolific spread of the Delta Vari. So the benefit in terms of lives saved is much less than they predict because the majority of children likely already have protection even from mild illness. So that was back in March. The CDC was saying that 42% of kids that age have been infected with COVID already. And now that's probably much higher. And it's probably even higher than our reporting shows because a lot of kids have such mild symptoms that they're not even going to get tested, which means that most kids already have natural immunity to a disease that doesn't really affect. most of them very seriously. He lists a lot of data from around the world that really shows the logic behind these mandates,

these requirements, even really the encouragement to get the vaccine for children. And so I encourage you to, I encourage you to read that article. There's a lot of data in there that really just goes against any suggestion that a kid should be forced, especially to get this vaccine. There is also this report, a report from Reuters that came out at the beginning of October that says Finland on Thursday paused to the use of modernist COVID-19 vaccine for younger males due to reports of a rare cardiovascular side effects joining Sweden and Denmark and limiting its use. Don't you think it's interesting that when it comes to economic policy or when it comes to health care policy, progressives are always talking about how we need to follow the Scandinavian model? they love Sweden because they think erroneously that Sweden is socialist, even though Swedish people will tell you that it's not. They just have a very large safety net, social safety net that is

enabled by high taxes. But when it comes to Sweden's response, which has been very unrestrictive and very data driven to COVID, you don't see left to celebrating that system at all. Reuters goes on to say, Mika Salminen, director of the Finnish Health Institute, said, Finland would instead give Pfizer's vaccine to men born in 1991. And later, Finland offers shots to people aged 12 in over a Nordic city involving Finland, Sweden, Norway and Denmark found that men under the age of 30 who received a modernist spike vaccine had a slightly higher risk than others of developing myocarditis. And so obviously, they were able to figure this out after distributing these vaccines to young people. So you see why a lot of parents would say, hmm, you know, I think I'm going to wait a little bit. I think I'm going to wait if I'm going to give my kids this vaccine at all.

I would like some more data on this. I would like to see how this plays out. That's called responsible parenting. I mean, that is good stewardship of your responsibility of caring for your kids and weighing the risks and benefits. Now, every kid is different. I'm not saying a parent who decides that it's best for their child to get the vaccine. Is a bad parent or stupid or anything like that? I'm not saying that, but I understand why a lot of parents are skeptical and are taking their time

and are being patient with this and may decide ultimately not to allow their kid to get the vaccine at all because it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense based on the data that we have. So progressives just need to understand, as I said a little bit earlier, that just because you like something or think that it's good does not mean that it has to be mandatory. And just because you think something is bad doesn't mean that it should. should be banned. Follow the science and realize there is no logical reason for this thing to be mandated, especially for kids, but even for adults. And I hear a lot of people saying, you know, it shouldn't be mandated. Even on the right, people saying it shouldn't be mandated for people

who have had COVID or who have a religious exemption. True, but it actually shouldn't be mandated at all. It just doesn't make any sense. Like, do you not see where all of this goes? Do you not see at this point looking at these policies that this is not really about your health. Don't you see that this never ends? It's just an excuse for a power grab that this isn't the last virus, the last excuse that the government will find to take away your freedom and your ability to work? Like, why don't you care about that? How do you not see that that hurts not just you, but hurts everybody? This is about power. That's it. And those who benefit from this power grab get really mad when other people don't go along with it, like Aaron Rogers. So Aaron Rogers, I'm just

going to briefly brief you on this. He is a Green Bay Packers quarterback. He's under fire for saying vaccines should be a choice on the Pat McAfee show. Is it McAfee? It's McAfee. Pat McAfee show. Rogers is unvaccinated, which means he has to be tested regularly for the NFL. He recently tested positive for COVID and he claims that he followed the same protocols that were recommended by Joe Rogan so that includes taking what the media has decried is horse to wormer which of course is far more than that as we talked about with Pierre Corey several weeks ago

in one of my most listened to episodes ever so definitely go back and listen to that but Aaron Rogers said when then President Donald Trump in 2020 was championing these vaccines that were coming so quick what did the left say Roger said I'm and I'm talking about every member of the left. Don't trust the vaccine. Don't get the vaccine. You're going to die from the vaccine.

And then what happened? President Joe Biden wins and everything flips. Shouldn't that initially give you a little bit of pause? Isn't this expletive that this isn't about health and not about like politics? I believe strongly in body autonomy, he says, and the ability to make choices for your body, not to have to acquiesce to some woke culture or crazy individuals that say. you have to do something. Now, I don't think he's a conservative. Same thing with Nikki Minaj who expressed skepticism about this. But man, they get absolutely lambasted for just

questioning the mainstream narrative and just saying, hey, I don't think that we should be punished for making a different medical decision. That was something that the left used to care about. I mean, the people who call themselves the resistance are on the same side as big pharma who is partnering with big tech and big government and big business to take away the ability, of working class people to earn a living and they think that they're the anti-fascist. That's really embarrassing. Now, I exputed the Washington Post is very mad about this Aaron Rogers fiasco, saying, My Football Idol has shown that he has feet of clay and a mind full of mush.

The New York Times says that Aaron Rogers is still vulnerable to the blindside blitz of misinformation. So it couldn't be that these people are just critically thinking. It couldn't be that they're looking at any of the data that we just read that, again, is so accessible and publicly available to everyone. It's because they're stupid. And that is supposed to encourage people to get the vaccine and trust the federal government. Got it. Matt Walsh made a really good point on Twitter. The sports media are far, far angrier at Aaron Rogers for not getting vaccinated than Deshawn Watson for sexually assaulting dozens of women or Henry Ruggs for driving a hundred and twenty-five miles per hour while drunk and killing someone.

I mean, that's true. It is very easy to find many cases of domestic abuse involving NFL players. And there was also this Raiders player. He did, I think, kick off the team for posting a video. A gun pointed at the camera saying that he was going to kill someone. and he did get released for that. But that kind of stuff, unfortunately, is pretty common when it comes to NFL players.

And you don't see the New York Times writing about it. You don't see most people mad about it. It's just like, oh, yeah, another NFL player is arrested for domestic abuse. Sadly, it's super sad. But people who really don't pay any attention to that are so mad that Aaron Rogers, who, again, has already been infected with COVID, has decided that he cares about bodily autonomy. Oh, so bodily autonomy only counts leftist when it comes to killing the baby.

inside your body. Got it. Got it. Okay. So it's a lot of propaganda, guys. If you want to get the vaccine, you should totally get the vaccine. And I'm not going to tell you whether or not you should get it. I read you the data. You can make decisions based on, you know, the conversations that you have with your health care provider based on the publicly available data that's out there. And you can make the decision that's best for you. I don't believe in asking people for their vaccination status because I don't really care if you're vaccinated. You really shouldn't care if I'm vaccinated. I believe that you can make the decision that's best for you and best for your family. But honestly, the fact that it is being foisted upon people, the fact that people are losing their jobs,

they're losing their livelihoods. We're not getting something that we already know. The LA Times is admitting wanes in efficacy after just a few months, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And if you're not asking those questions, it might be too late, honestly, to wake up. And so maybe you can just continue to waive in your ignorance. Maybe ignorance is bliss. So maybe it's better for you to stay asleep. But for the people who have been awake for a long time, it's time to continue to push back. A lot of people have been pushing back.

A lot of people have sacrificed a lot. Speak up to your employer. And push back. Push back against the mandates. However, you can as peacefully. and as respectfully as you possibly can. I mean, people are literally just walking away from their jobs because of this. One piece of advice that I would say, if your job is making you get this and you either

don't want to work there in principle because you don't believe in that kind of mandate, or if you don't want to get the shot yourself, don't quit, make them fire you, file a religious exemption, but be honest about it. Be honest about it. If it's not the whole fetal line thing that gives you pause, about this vaccine because fetal lines are used in the research for lots of different medications that we use on a daily basis. If that's not it for you, don't lie. Don't lie on the exemption. Only file for truthful exemptions. Give your real rationale behind it. The person who takes the

exemption doesn't have to agree with you, doesn't have to think that it's rational. If it's simply that it goes against your conscience to take the vaccine, then that's what you need to say if your exemption is not, isn't accepted, then you file a complaint with the EEOC. There are different avenues that you can take, but don't quit. Make them fire you. Alliance to any freedom. Other organizations are pushing back against this. As Ben Shapiro said, there are a lot of people continuing to push back, but you need to hold your ground. Even if you have no qualms with the vaccine at all, that's fine in principle for liberty. That kind of stuff matters. It absolutely matters. All right. We'll be back.

here to morrow to talk about another controversial topic that's in the news and that is race and whether or not racially divisive lessons are really being taught

in public schools as we hear that they are so we will be back here tomorrow and we'll see you then hey this is Steve Deast if you're listening to Allie you already understand that the biggest issues

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