Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 527 | Healing from Abortion & Using Your Story for Good | Guest: Victoria Robinson

Episode Date: November 22, 2021

Today we're talking to Victoria Robinson, a pro-life activist and author whose organization, ReAssemble Life, seeks to help both women and men heal from the traumatic experience of abortion. We go through her own amazing story of redemption, and Victoria debunks many of the lies pushed by the pro-abortion industry. We also talk about how Christians can balance condemning the sin of abortion while still offering grace and forgiveness to the women who have had them. Victoria also offers advice for people who find themselves in many different situations regarding unplanned pregnancies. --- Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers has upgraded their website to handle the increased traffic that's been generated from the 'Relatable' audience as more & more of you choose to support American farms & farmers. And they have a limited time offer right now: go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE & you'll get 10 FREE bistro filet medallions with your order! Plus, save $25 on every box of mouth-watering American meats for life when you subscribe! And when you use promo code 'ALLIE' you'll get free express shipping. Genucel from Chamonix is an incredibly natural, powerful serum. And with Immediate Effects, Genucel is guaranteed to show results in as little as 12 hours, or your money back! From now until Thanksgiving see the difference yourself with 60% off on Genucel packages. Go to LoveGenucel.com/ALLIE — order now & express shipping is free! Bambee was created specifically for small businesses — you can get a dedicated HR manager, craft HR policy, & maintain your compliance, all for just $99/month! When running a business, HR issues can kill you — go to Bambee.com/ALLIE right now to schedule your free HR audit. --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. I've got a treat for you today. I am talking to pro-life activist and advocate. Victoria Robinson, she works with women who have had abortions.

She also helps men heal from the experience. of abortion that the mother of their child went through. And she just has so much wisdom, so much godly encouragement for us today. I'm really excited for you to hear her story, how she became such an outspoken advocate, how she came to do what she does now. She's also going to give us some tools for us who are pro-life and who have relationships with people who have had an abortion or we have friends who are dealing with an unplanned pregnancy, how we love those people, how we balance accountability through the law with love

and nurturing for people who have experienced or who are considering abortion. So without further ado, here is my friend, Victoria Robinson. Victoria, thank you so much for joining us. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you do? I would love to you. First, thank you for having me. Of course. I've always been a big fan. I am Victoria Robinson and I have been working in pro-life issues. I guess you'd say I'm an activist, a pro-life activist for 25 years now, I think. Wow. I've been working with men and women as well who have had abortions with recovery from

the trauma that happens after that. So I speak at different events across the country, fundraising events for pregnancy resource centers. And I'm just anything pro-life, I'm involved in it somehow. I try to be. And I want to talk a little bit more about that because you do work with women who have had abortions. And you've also talked to a lot of men who,

the mother of their child had an abortion. So you know a lot about the trauma aspect of it, which we don't talk about quite as much because we're so dedicated to changing people's minds beforehand. But that's a big aspect of it, the post-trauma. Before we get into that, though, I want the people who don't know a little bit about your story why you got into this pro-life work.

If you could just fill us in on that. Okay. Unfortunately, I got involved because I chose abortion over 30 years ago. I was a single mother with two little girls. girls. They were nine months and three months old or three years old when their dad decided he didn't want to be married anymore. So he left. So here I was, this desperate single mother who had to work two jobs just to feed them and take care of them, dropping them off at daycare every morning

at six, picking them up every night at six. I was working as a real estate paralegal. And also on the weekends, I worked at a health club. So I tell you that because it was a really tough time in my life, Allie, and I met a guy at my second job. We fell madly in love. My self-esteem had already been shot to pieces from my husband leaving. And nine months later, I was pregnant. I called the abortion clinic in Charlotte, North Carolina, told her my story about my husband leaving, about now being pregnant. I'm unwed. I have these two little girls. And she convinced me that there was nothing there, but nothing more than a blob of tissue, a clump of cells. And I'd be really selfish is what she said to have another child when I could barely take care of the two I had.

My boyfriend was saying, let's do this. We can have kids later. When we get married, all of those things that, you know, when you're so desperate, you're very vulnerable. And I bought into the lies. So on a Saturday morning, I drove myself to an abortion clinic, same one in Charlotte, and chose abortion. It wrecked me. It changed who I was. The woman I was that walked in wasn't the same one who walked out. I knew my life was never going to be the same, but I kept that secret for over a decade before I finally walked into a pregnancy center and spoke to the director there, told her my story, and asked her for help. And she said, let's get you in after abortion recovery, and that's what she did. And it changed my life. So I knew after that that I had no choice,

but to share what I'd been through for other women, first of all, to not make the same choice and realize there are other options besides abortion, much better options, and that if they'd already chosen abortion, they could find healing through recovery. What was the motivator to go to the pregnancy center after a decade of secrecy and silence? Was there something that happened that made you realize, okay, I've got to talk to someone about this? So many things. I would say in those 10 years, I felt such guilt and shame. I got involved in my church. I became a

Christian, if you will, and thought, if I say enough to the church, yes, I'll lead worship. Yes, I'll work in the nursery. Yes, I'll do whatever you need me to do. I would stop feeling those feelings of pain and regret. And then I felt so rejected by God that I knew if people knew my secret, they would reject me for sure. So nobody knew. So all of these years, I started getting more and more involved in church, and women started coming to me, Allie, telling me about their abortion stories, not knowing I had my own.

For whatever reason, I know now why, but at the time I didn't, I felt like God was torturing me, basically. They would come and whisper in my ear and say, I had an abortion. Can you help me? Can you pray with me? I can't get over it.

And I get so angry, Allie, honestly, with God. And I did. I got really mad at, more mad at him, thinking, you hate me so much. much that you want these women to always signal or choose me and seek me out to tell their stories so that I can continually be reminded of what I'd done. Well, there was a woman in my church named Mary, who was the director of the pregnancy center.

And for about three years, she kept approaching me at church saying, you should come volunteer at our pregnancy center, Victoria, and you'd be so good. You're really good with the youth groups here. And I'd say, yes, sure, Mary, I will. And then I'd go back to God and say, what are you? There you go again. And for about three years that went on. And there was a particular woman that came to me at a women's event. And I was standing at the altar to pray with women because I was part of the women's ministry team, even though I felt like a fraud, Alley, because they didn't know about my abortion. But once again, trying everything I could to make me not feel so bad about myself. And so this woman came to me. And she, was a prominent person in the community and whispered in my ear again like so many before telling me her story and she was so broken and I just at that moment I prayed with her and watched God transform her and as he had with many others before but for whatever reason this particular time was the one

that got me yeah and I went home and I had it out with with my creator I mean it was pretty ugly And I kept putting my fist up to him and saying, why, why, why, why are, why do you heal everyone but me? When is it going to be my turn to find the same freedom and healing their finding? And I felt like he impressed upon my heart thinking to think about Mary. And Mary's face came to me. And I just thought, wow. And I felt like he was trying through Mary. So I called her the next day.

I'm ready to volunteer. I went to her center. It took me a few more months before I actually confessed to her. But when I did, she looked at me and said, now we're going to take what the enemy meant to destroy you and turn it into good. And God's going to use your voice fick to talk to the nations about what abortion really is. So let's get you in after abortion recovery. And she signed me up and that was 25 years ago. So when did you know, okay, this is what I want to dedicate my life too. Oh gosh, the moment I walked out of that retreat, it was a three and a half day retreat, Allie, that I now conduct myself today. In three and a half days, what I had tried to do in 10 years on my own, tried to do on my own, God in three and a half days transformed my life. So on Thursday

night when I got there to that retreat, I can remember looking at those two facilitators and I had such a bad attitude even then and just said, I don't know why I'm here. This is probably a waste of my time and your time, but Mary said I needed to be here. So I'm here. I don't know how you're going to help me. I've been in church. I've been begging God all these years and nothing's going to take this pain and this regret and this guilt from me. And they were like, we're just happy you're here. That moment I wanted to hit them. Yeah. You know, there's sweet church ladies. And I just thought, but on Sunday at noon is when it was over. And I had gone through the process and trusted the process. I looked at them and said, every woman who's had an abortion needs to know about these kinds of

healing retreats. Every woman that's had an abortion needs to know there is redemption, that she can find healing, and that God does forgive even for abortion. And they looked at me and said, we know, and we're going to train you how to do it. So those two facilitators trained me, and I've been doing these retreats ever since. Sounds like you had a very redemptive and healing and welcoming, accepting church experience when you came to people in your church and said, this is what I did. It sounds like they were very quick to extend grace to you or show you God's grace and then have you be a part of other people's healing process.

But we're hearing a lot from Christians and maybe people who would consider themselves ex-Christians that the church doesn't do a good job in helping women who have had abortions, that there's only condemnation. I imagine that probably both are true. that some people have had really bad experiences and some people have what sounds like a really good experience like you. Can you talk about just kind of what you've seen, not just in your own life, but maybe other women who have gone to people in their church, maybe they haven't had the same experience, or do you think the church in general is doing a good job? What's really kind of the truth there?

I'm glad you asked that because unfortunately I do not think as a whole in general the church is doing a good job. I practically have to beg pastors to let me have five minutes of their pulpit time on a Sunday morning to talk about this issue. And I hear things like, we don't have that issue here, Victoria. I know we have people here who are pro-choice. They may be offended. People who have had abortions, they may be hurt and offended. And I look at them and say, okay, first of all, that's assonine to me, that you're not speaking about this issue from the pulpit. Right.

Because what I want them to understand is that those. their congregants who are sitting there. Allie, one out of three people's had an abortion in this country. They're sitting in churches every Sunday. When the pastor refuses to talk about the issue, they're internalizing that and they're feeling like, see, even my own pastor won't talk about it. That's how bad it is. So that continues to put them in this place of rejection and no hope. And that's the one thing God can't forgive for because he won't or she or whoever, is in that pulpit won't even speak about it. Right. So I tell pastors, if you're afraid of the issue, bring someone in like me. It doesn't have to be me, but bring someone in to talk about it.

They need to hear it. Those churches that have been brave enough to bring me in, when men and women approach me afterwards, they say, thank you, thank you for coming. I'm so thankful my pastors addressing this because I didn't understand why we've never addressed it. Or even the pastors will say to me, you know what, I should have done this a long time ago. I had no idea of this many people were hurting from abortion. Well, I challenge pastors and say they are. They're sitting in your church every week. So it's your responsibility. If you're preaching about other sin, you should be preaching about abortion and hope and healing as well. So it's not, we're nowhere near where we need to be. Unfortunately, if we were doing what we should be doing in the church alley

with this issue, let's be honest. We wouldn't be in the shape we're in today in this country. with 2,300 plus children being aborted each day and with the abortion laws that are being passed. And I'll take it a step further with the candidates that are being put in positions to continue voting for these pro-abortion laws. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Alley, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against First Prince, principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't

offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. I think one problem that some people have is they feel like if they condemn abortion is wrong, then they are not dealing with people's feelings and people's so-called lived experiences. And they are being unipathetic and unkind.

And so it's kind of a false dichotomy. It's like either you're condemning abortion is bad and you hate the women who have had abortions or you say abortion should be legal and fun and fine in order to love the women who have had abortions. But that's kind of like a false binary, right? How do we do both? How do we condemn abortion but also unequivocally say, like, We want grace and redemption and hope for the women who have had abortions. You can do it with grace.

You can do it with literal grace by you can't. Okay. So and this is this is the real million dollar question because it can be done. I do it every single day. And I never condemn the woman who's had the abortion. First of all, she's been manipulated at the most vulnerable time of her life. People have to understand that those who do hate women who have had a abortions. When I go speak at different events, Allie, I know there are some people in the audience

thinking, who is this woman telling us about abortion? She's had one. I've had people write me on social media and say, who do you think you are telling me I can't have an abortion when you got to have your abortion? So these are pro-choice people saying this? These are pro-choice people or people that are hurting. I'm convinced, Allie, as well, that many, I would go so far as to say almost the majority, but many, let's say many for the sake of argument, of people who are adamantly pro-choice, either have had an abortion or someone close to them has had an abortion. So exactly what you're saying. They feel if they become pro-life or condemn abortion, they're condemning themselves or the person. So we're not condemning anyone for having the abortion.

Do I condemn abortionists who know exactly what they're doing? Sure do. I have no problem with it. When the praise God for Texas with your heartbeat law came out, I was asked the question, And do you think someone should have the right to sue these women from their abortions? I said, I'll put it to you this way. If I could go back 30 years and sue that abortionist who lied to me, sue the woman who took my money who lied to me and said it was nothing more than getting a tooth pulled, when you leave here, never think of it again. If I could go back and sue these people who lied to my face that this would not affect

my life in any way, I'd be the first in line. Yeah. And people don't realize. People like to say that the woman with this Texas law is. being sued. It's actually not the woman. It's all the people that she just listed. There's a ton of misinformation as there always is surrounding abortion law about that. And I think you're right. I think some people feel like they're either going to condemn themselves by saying abortion is wrong or they're going to condemn someone that they love. And like we were saying earlier,

it's that false binary of saying, I can't say this is bad without being hateful towards the person who did it. And you are walking out how to balance both of those things. I do find myself more on the side of just trying to desperately convince people that abortion is wrong, that abortion is bad. Not that obviously I don't believe that there is grace and redemption and acceptance for people who have had it because, of course, I do. But I think it also gets more and more difficult as we see just some of the rabid, truly pro-abortion rhetoric, even that we're seeing from Hollywood, but also activists who are now saying there's nothing wrong with abortion.

It's not safe, legal, and rare anymore. It's without apology through nine months. We saw that New York law in 2019. the buildings lit up pink for abortion through nine months. And it's just a celebratory thing. Sometimes I think it's hard for me to look at that and think that, okay, are all women who have abortions, are they all truly victims of manipulation and deceit? Or is there a point where it's like, okay, some people are celebrating this and they're

proud of the fact, or they say that they're proud of the fact that they did? it's hard not to be just completely adversarial towards the pro-abortion side when you see that kind of attitude. So how do we deal with that? You know, that's really good because I've been involved in this work for a long time and even that can be difficult for me. And I've counseled and met these women throughout my career. I had someone recently who went through a retreat who felt her baby kicking on the way to the abortion. So that's hard. That's hard, man. It's hard. It's hard. I'm human. I mean, that's hard. But I'm telling you, this woman was, is a good woman. She's not a horrible, wicked, mean, evil person. She's a woman who is in, was in terrible pain, which is why she

chose from her background. But she had to disassociate herself with it. But what happens and what I try to get women to understand is right now, you're here because you need to be here. For whatever desperate situation you think you're in of why you're choosing to have an abortion. And you're right. There are those women that I have met who said, I'll just have it again. Didn't bother me at all. And I watched their attitudes about things and think, you don't think it bothered you at all. Yeah. But this is the person you are. If you weren't defensive about it, that'd tell me a lot more. One of my friends, before I chose abortion, I would have said I was pro-life. She had had seven abortions. Wow. And it ended our friendship because I'd watch her sleeping.

around and going out every weekend saying, what are you doing? What are you going to do if you get pregnant again? I'll just have another abortion. Now that person and I, our friendship ended, but I've kept in touch through circles I know what she's up to. She's become a full-fledged alcoholic and drug addict. And her life has been a train wreck. I know part of that, maybe not all of it. She had a pretty rough childhood as well, but a lot of that stems from seven abortions. And who knows, maybe she had more after I saw her. So it is hard. So I try to, I can't not condemn the abortion, Allie.

I condemn abortion. I don't condemn the woman because of my experience with these women who come to me so broken and so feeling lied to and manipulated and all those things I've already mentioned that are genuine. There are those who say as well to my face. I don't really care what you say. I have been fine. and I choose it again. And I just say, well, if you ever need me, here's my card.

Yeah. There's not really more I can do than that. But the majority, even though the pro-abortion side wants us to believe that abortion does not affect a woman in any way, there lies. Recently, again, I had another woman here in Texas that went through a retreat. And we started on a Thursday night, and by Friday afternoon, she said, 18 and 19 years ago, I had abortions. She boarded her two baby boys.

She was in her first trimester. So 18 years ago, 19 years ago. She said all these years since then, and it had been probably 15 years since her abortions, I have Googled or went online to put in, am I doing this because I had two abortions? Is this why I'm depressed? And everything that came up, no correlation between depression and abortion. There's no issues from abortion for women. All these lies, because it's all propaganda from the pro-abortion.

side to make sure that's what a woman finds. But it's simply not true. And she sat there and said, all these years, I have felt like I was crazy. Now, listening to all your stories in this group, I've realized those things were from my, from choosing abortion, because you've all experienced the same things. And that's what infuriates me about the abortion side. They try to paint this picture like you said, oh, big deal. We're sitting, someone was telling me earlier that women were sitting in the room girls on their phones laughing and giggling there for abortions. It's just this narrative they paint that everything is cool and it's okay. Just like sleeping around is cool and doing this is cool.

So is having an abortion. Have you had your first abortion yet? Yeah. It's almost become this badge of honor. So demonic. It's demonic, completely demonic. You cannot walk into abortion clinic and not feel a sense of oppression there. Totally.

Because it's there. How can you walk in? and kill babies every day without that sense of being like this. So I think what I'm hearing you say is that not every single woman who has an abortion is necessarily a victim. There are some, minority maybe, but there are some who know what they're doing and they do it anyway. They either disassociate themselves from it, like the woman that you said, she felt her baby

kick and she still chose it. And then there's some that they don't have to disassociate themselves. they truly do have like they've completely calloused hearts they have hearts of stone and they can just go through with something like that most women do feel it they do feel a sense of trauma and something that i'm thinking because it just it truly does make me so angry because as pro-lifers we are so inclined to think of the baby because no one else is thinking about the baby and so just thinking about that precious child kicking and being killed it is hard for me i'll just be honest like it's hard for me to feel bad for the mother it's hard for hard for me. Not that I don't feel bad for the circumstances. Like she could have come from abuse. I don't know. So many different things. But I still am like, how could you, how could you do it? You know, can you take us into kind of that mindset? Because you've talked to these women more than I have. Can you take us into your conversations with women who have ultimately made that choice, but has still evokes just that feeling of sympathy and compassion from you? How do you not just take

them by the shoulders and say, how could you do that, you know? Because I'm one of them. Yeah. Because I had two children already. I knew the outcome of a pregnancy. Yet at six weeks, I chose abortion. And knowing that conception, at conception, that baby was a human being with their own unique DNA, whether I was six weeks or six months, I get what you're saying. That was still my baby. So for me, I think I can empathize, and sympathize because your mindset, it's hard to describe to someone who's never experienced an abortion or felt that's her only option. And they do come from all walks of life. There's no way a girl who walks in at six, seven months or even four or five months doesn't have trauma

to bring her to the place where she could walk into an abortion clinic, lay on a table, and let an abortionist who cares nothing more than for that paycheck to end the life of her child. So that's probably the best answer I can give for me because I've been there. And on the way to the abortion clinic, Allie, I hired a sitter to take care of my older girls. And I told her I was going shopping. And my boyfriend couldn't even take me. He went out of town and wasn't even driving me. So I had to drive myself 20, 25 minutes to that abortion clinic from my apartment.

And I can remember vividly having my hands. on my stomach telling this blob of tissue that I was told that that's all that it was, I'm really sorry for what I'm about to do, but this is the best choice for you because my life is a wreck and I'm struggling to take care of your sisters and I'm having this conversation with this blob of tissue. So you would think that would be enough of a revelation for me driving there to go, what are you doing? But it wasn't. I got there and convinced myself as well as others convincing me around. But I take responsibility. No one put a gun to my head. But there were definitely influences around me to convince me this was the best choice. When you're that desperate and you're

a mom that has other children or you're a girl who knows your parents are going to throw you out if they find out you're pregnant because they've threatened you with disowning you. And whether they do or they don't, and many of them don't. That's just their threat. They don't understand the damage they're doing, though, to their daughters when they say this. They're convinced. And when I'm sitting there saying to them, they won't, honey, I promise you. And if they do, I'll find the resources for you. You're going to be okay. No, you don't understand what my family means to me. I can't be without my family. This is there. I have to choose this because I got to save my, all these different stories that I hear. So I think that's probably a long answer to your question because that's why. Now, I said earlier, and I can't lie either.

It is difficult for me to meet someone who's had a late-term abortion. Even in the back of my mind, I'm going, would I have done that? Yeah. Would I have felt my baby's hiccups and felt my baby kicking me and still gone through with it? I would like to believe there's no way. I truly believe had I seen the ultrasound, even at six weeks. He told me I was six to eight weeks, the abortionist,

because as he was walking out the door and I was a wreck, I called after him and said, was it a girl or a boy? And he just turned around and said, I don't know, you're too early for me to tell. I don't have time for this. And he walked out. And even lying on the table, Allie, at the moment that I heard the machine turn on, I wanted to scream, I've changed my mind. I was saying to myself, what are you doing here, Vic? get out. What are you doing here? I was so paralyzed with fear and all of the thoughts.

Everything everyone had been saying to me was going through my head. You'd be selfish to bring another child in. You can barely take care of these two. It's not really a baby. Let's get it done before it's a baby. Yeah. I mean, all the lies that I was told. And I allowed them in 10 minutes to end my child's life. And, you know, they took my baby. that day, but they never took the memory of my baby that day. And like I said, it almost destroyed me, but I knew I had to go on for the two I had. Yeah. And then I felt like getting involved in abusive relationships is what I deserved because I did not deserve any form of happiness when I killed my baby. So I was in relationships that weren't good for me that were abusive and

cheating on me or calling me names. Well, you know, I deserve it. What else do I deserve but that? Because my self-esteem was gone and I had no sense of worth until I met Mary. And until Mary said, Vic, God loves you. God will forgive you for that. He wants to redeem your life. And I didn't believe her.

That's why I still had an attitude that Thursday when I showed up. She was right. And God transformed my life and showed me, hey, I got you. And I'm taking care of your baby. Your baby's with me. Now you need to do the work I've called you to do so that other women don't make the same choice, which is why I will always, always fight for the unborn.

Yeah. And now you're going to help those people who have made the choice so that they know I love them too. Yeah. Because Christ didn't just die for these unborn children. He died for these parents as well. And as you're talking, you know, the main thing that you said, the reason why you can't judge and condemn these women. is because you've been there too, but the reality is whether or not we have experienced an abortion,

whether or not we've gone through with that. Jesus says, if you hate someone in your heart, you are a murderer. And we've all hated someone in our heart. And so that means we really don't have a place of condemnation. That doesn't mean that we can't say, as you've said very clearly, hey, that was wrong. That was wrong. It was murdered. That ended the life of a child.

We don't have to use as pro-choicers or pro-abortionists do. euphemisms, to try to cover up what an abortion is, we can be so clear on that, while also saying, hey, I'm, I am the worst of sinners too, because that's what the Bible tells me. I've hated someone in my heart. I've lied before. I've cheated before. I've been a blasphemer before. And all of those things, God says, that's enough to condemn you to hell, but God, but God. So they're in the same place of the need of redemption that we have all been at one point. So that, I think, is. And, you know, where we can all come from to say, as angry as I might be at that situation, as hard as it is for some of us to understand, they're all different kinds of sin that maybe we have an experience

and that it's so hard for us to understand. But hey, we've all been murders in one sense, but God. You know what, Allie? Here's another thing I would say about those women who, it is difficult for those that aren't involved in the work I am or with meeting these people on a weekly basis, is that these women are going to go. through much more than we could ever do to them with any condemnation we might put on them. What they have to live with, especially those, and I don't want to say especially if they're

late term, but there's definitely a difference when a woman says to me, I actually felt my daughter kicking and still chose than for me who didn't feel or look pregnant. I'm not going to deny that there's definitely a difference. But what she has to live with, oh my gosh, they condemn themselves every single day. And I just want any woman who's gone through an abortion to know, even those that are saying I'm okay with it. And some, not all, are lying to themselves, that there is help. And once you walk in the truth and you realize the truth, I handed a woman the embryolic stages when I was doing the retreat. That's part of the healing. And she threw it at my face. Why do I have to look at that? I know how far along I was. I know my baby had arms and legs. And when I committed to an

abortion. I know all of that. Why are you doing this to me? And I just said, look at it when you're ready. Then the next day, it was different. And she said, I get it now. Yeah. I had in my mind, there was nothing there. Yeah. So I could continue to live in that denial. But now I saw in my face. And now I'm so in pain and I hurt for what I did. But can I say I'm also excited now because I believe I'll see her in heaven? And I said, yeah, you can. Yeah. And you understand all this. emotions because you felt that anger, you felt that defensiveness. Even after you were a Christian, I think maybe that might be where some of the shame comes from for women who maybe since they had an abortion, they became a Christian. So they think that, okay, I'm not supposed to,

I'm not supposed to be angry about this anymore, or I can't be defensive about this, or even after they become Christian in pro-life, they still don't want to talk about their abortion because, well, now they're a Christian. And you're supposed to, you know, you're supposed to say the right things and feel all the right things about that. And so they don't want to come across as hypocrites. So maybe if they're, if they're Christian women out there who haven't admitted that they had an abortion and who are feeling maybe even more shame and guilt than they did before, which I would say is the conviction of the Holy Spirit, if you're feeling like, wow, that was wrong for the first time. Like, how do you encourage them to go about revealing this to someone? How do they start seeking

healing if they're feeling that defensiveness that you did? I would say, honestly, reach out to your pregnancy resource center, your local pregnancy center. And you can do that anonymously because that's the greatest fear. When I counsel or meet with people at retreats, they always say, do I have to do what you're doing now? Because I've told you guys I had an abort. I'm like, no, because I don't want to do what you do. I don't want the whole world to know. No, I've been called to do this. I mean, I couldn't even look in a mirror and say I had an abortion by myself in my bathroom before I went through healing. Now, God's taking me everywhere and it's like, I mean, I'm telling everybody. So, but I let people know that it's not something you need to have fear about because that is one of the greatest things.

Well, if I start talking about it, does that mean I have to tell everyone? No, it doesn't. I would say call your local pregnancy resource center. Get in touch with someone like me. Share that for the, many people have shared with me for the first time and I'm the first person they've told because they feel safe. So find that safe place. Pray. If you're a Christian, then pray.

send someone to me that I can talk to who won't judge me and condemn me because that's their greatest fear, Allie, is being judged and condemned. I hear from women all the time. I don't want this person to know or this. They won't want to be my friend anymore. I was that person. I was on a team of 12 women involved heavily in my church. None of them knew. And post-abort of men and women will keep people at a distance because if I let you get too close, you're going to know my secret. And I can't tell you that secret. So that's what I want people to know is there are places available to reach out to that are safe, that will keep your secret and walk through that with you, through after abortion care. And like with men, men are the ones who we want to say,

shut up, sit down. It's not your body. Well, here's a scientific fact. It's not her body either. Right. And these children had mothers and fathers. So one of the things we have done that I'm determined to put an end to, we've got to talk about these fathers. And these fathers are hurting too. After my book came out, okay, I called the father of my aborted child. Allie, we hadn't spoken in over 10 years. And I'd gone through after abortion recovery. My book was getting ready. I knew we had a lot of the same friends in the same circles. I wanted him to know I didn't give any identifying factors about him in the book. I called and said, hey, it's me. It's all I said. He began to weep

Wow Where I couldn't understand him Wow He said I've been waiting for this call for over 10 years To beg you for forgiveness for what I made you do It's haunted me all these years And I've been in therapy eight years dealing with it Wow

Can you please forgive me I should have protected you and our baby And I failed you both In that moment I realized two things One Oh this good little Christian I thought I was had not fully forgiven him. And I forgave him on the spot.

And it was like full circle for me for my healing. The second thing that I realized was I felt Holy Spirit spoke to my heart and said, do not forget these men. These children had fathers. Never forget to talk about them. And I have ever since. And I'm telling you, as I've opened that door up when I speak wherever I speak and I mention men and talk about, the men are coming to my book table saying,

Thank you. Nobody ever talks about us. I talked her into it. I paid for it. I lied to her to get her to do it. I drove her there. I didn't know. Whatever their stories are, they say the same thing. Thank you for finally recognizing that we're hurting to. But we're just not allowed to say we are. Yeah, and I want to talk a little bit more about the men. And the book, just so everyone knows that you were referring to, it's called They Lied to Us. And you've got another book coming out. They lied to us, too, about men's stories. And I want to talk about that more in a second. But kind of going back to what you were talking about, about someone who has had an abortion in the church, they want healing from it. Or maybe they're not even Christians yet, but they want healing from it.

And your direction there, what about the friend of someone who has had an abortion or, you know, people. people have come to me and said they don't even know me. And they said, I am thinking about this or I am, I have an on-plan pregnancy. I don't know what to do. And I've come to you and been like, Victoria, what do I, what do I do? And you're a great resource for all of that. But not everyone, not every friend of someone who is considering an abortion or who has had an abortion has anyone else to turn to. And they don't feel like they are equipped to help this person. So I guess the first, the first, the friend who has a friend who is considering. an abortion. What does she do? Okay. If you're a friend and some one of your friends comes to you and says,

I'm having an abortion or I'm thinking about it, first of all, listen. Just listen. Don't react. The last thing you want to do, even if you're 100% against it, just listen. Because right now, what she just needs is to talk and share what's going on and let her continue to talk. When she's done, hug her. I mean, these things are little simple things, but that's what she needs. She needs support. look at her and say, hey, I love you, you're my friend. We're going to get through this together. You are not alone. That is the biggest thing, Allie, that young women feel or older at whatever age, they don't want to feel alone. I had to drive myself to an abortion clinic. How more alone could I have been that he couldn't even take the time to take me and go with me? Women need support. They need to know they have support. So that just reiterated to me. See, nobody's helping me. And I didn't tell anyone. I wasn't going to tell your mother. Girls, if you're not telling your mother something, that's called a clue, by the way. But listen to her, show her support.

The next thing I would do, and I keep going back to it, but I will, until I can never shut up about it is what I should say. Pregnancy resource centers are one of the greatest resources in your area for these kinds of situations. They have compassionate women and men who are working there, who are volunteering there, who that's what they're waiting for is a call like that. They're not there to condemn and judge. And if they do, if you called one out of the blue that was one that was doing that,

hang up and call me. Get in touch with me or call the next one. The majority, if not all of them, are not going to have that kind of response. No, I've never seen that. And you have, you know, you've worked with a lot of them too and I've met. They have incredible compassion for people in this situation. So if you're the friend, call them. They may say, well, we've got to talk to your friend to schedule that ultrasound or the appointee.

that's protocol, but at least be on the phone and then hand the phone to your friend. Call with her. Don't just say, well, let me know what you decide and leave. Yeah. Because what she's going to feel is isolated and alone. So support, support, listen, and then find that resource, which if you don't know it, well, if you're listening to Allie, then she's telling you right now. Reach out to Ali if you have to. Sorry, Ali. Ali will get in touch with me like you have already in the past and will help you find the resources. Don't believe the lie. There's no help available because it's simply not true. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And then for the friend who found out that a friend had an abortion, how does she help her heal? Same way. You got to listen. Listen and don't react. Whatever you do,

you don't want to look at her and go, how could you? Yeah. That's the last thing you want to do because then if she had more to tell you, she's going to shut down. She's not going to tell you. If you're truly her friend, for one thing, you're a good friend if she's willing to open up to you to tell you something. She's probably not told many people. Listen, hug her, support her, and then tell her, I'm going to walk through this with you. I know there's got to be help for people like you, and I'm going to help you find it. And I'm telling you, the floodgates open up.

A lot of times when a friend tells you she's had an abortion, that may be a time for you to, to tell her so you so have you that happens a lot when people feel safe um they feel more they have more courage and my prayer always is when someone says i need to tell somebody pray about who that person is and if you don't have that person call your local pregnancy center let them be the first one because the worst thing that can happen is if you go to that judgmental friend or that friend who's going to condemn you that's just going to put her 20s. steps back. And it seems like from the stories that I've heard of women who were considering an abortion, I asked, I just asked people on Instagram, who followed me, tell me how you became

pro-life. And I got just a couple messages of people who had unplanned pregnancies when they were a teenager. And the reasons why they changed their mind in not having an abortion, one, I saw a lot of people say that the boyfriend stepped up, that the guy stepped up and said, don't do that. That can be an absolute game change. And also the parents said, you don't have to go through with that. We're going to support you. So it seems like lack of support could be a reason why a lot of women have an abortion and just support someone saying you're not doing this alone.

Parents stepping up and saying, I'm sad that you're in this position, but we're going to do everything we can to support you. And gosh, the men, the men stepping up and saying you don't have to do it, you're not going to do this alone, right? No question, no question. had my boyfriend walked into that abortion clinic, and I was sitting in the waiting room to be called back and said, hey, babe, let's go.

I'd have gladly took his hand and walked out. Support is everything. The last thing we want women to feel is that they're alone. So men do need to step up. But the problem is they don't know what to do or say because they've been told, shut up, sit down. It's not your body. No, you do, it's no opinion.

Exactly. And so then I want to see men rise up. And I'm convinced, Allie, with the millions upon millions of people that are post-abortive, men and women, once they find healing from having and choosing abortion, it's going to change the landscape of pro-life. I truly believe it. Because a lot of these people are keeping their mouths shut. They don't want to tell anybody. They're not healed. When you're healed, you can't help it.

And that is not to say you have to go travel and speak like I do. that's not what I mean or telling everyone your story. It may be your neighbor. It may be that one coworker. But what, 72 million abortions, I believe, since Roe v. Wade and counting, 140 million for the sake of math that are out there that have had abortions. If a percentage of those people found healing and then told one person it would change everything, I'm convinced after abortion recovery is a backdoor approach to how we're going to make abortion unthinkable. Yeah, dealing with the healing. And like you said, when you're healed, you can't help it. It changes things. It changes your life. It changes how you see things. It changes what you talk about. Talk about some of the lies, as you already touched on just now, but some of the other lies that men are hearing or that we have believed that this is just a women's thing. This is just a women's movement. You know, men are totally unaffected by abortion. We hear. But that's not true, as you've already touched on.

That's not true. As I touched on with the father of my boarded child and how that conversation with, I spoke at an event a couple years ago. It was a men's event called its New Canaan Men's Society, if you're familiar with that. And they did their big conference in Orlando, Florida. And they very rarely have female speakers. And I spoke at their event. After I spoke and shared my story, shared the story I shared with you about my father, these men stood in line, Alley, for over two hours. just to talk to me.

And some of them for the first time saying they had an abortion in their past. Because they always felt they weren't allowed to say anything because that's what they've been told. This is a women's issue, not a man's issue. Men who said, this is why I can't, I have an issue committing. I've never been able to commit. When a woman gets too close, I break up with her. Men telling me this is why I'm a workaholic. This is why I'm an alcoholic.

This is why I abuse drugs. This is why I don't feel like I can relate or connect with my own children because of fear. all of these different things, same kinds of things I hear as well from the women. Not a whole lot of difference. I look at it like this. When a woman finally comes to the realization, she ended the life of her child, when God made us to be nurturers, to be mothers, to care for our young and, you know, etc. It's devastating for us to know that we ended the life of our child. But for a man, men were made to be protectors.

men are made to look after their women and their children. When they did not protect their child and they participated in the death of their child, they're just as devastated. So there are men and women walking around with wounds all over this country. And the fact that this is only about women infuriates me. I had a man recently. I spoke in California last week. And this gentleman came to me and said, you know, your keynote was. a full package. I said, how's that? He said, you're not just pro unborn and pro life. You're

pro woman and you're pro man. Because I mostly hear how much women hate men because it's their fault these women are having to choose abortion. And I said, that's just a lie and propaganda that they've been fed to keep their mouths shut. Because think about it. If men rise up and say, no, babe, you're not doing that. Are they walking that waiting room? Hey, let's go. You don't belong here. Yeah. The abortion industry knows. Yeah. When men take their place in this issue, their business is going to be hurt very badly.

They're multi-billion dollar business. And many times people tell me, Allie, I never thought of the abortion industry as a business. Oh, wake up. It's a multi-billion dollar business. It has nothing to do with women's health or women's rights. It has to do with their bottom line. Oh, I think we, even people who are aware of that, we probably, don't even know all of the evil that goes on. I mean, thankfully, they're a great journalist.

David Delighton is one of those undercover journalists. We saw the University of Pittsburgh doing these horrific experiments using baby scalps funded by our tax dollars. And I think that's just what we know. There's so much and people just don't understand because of the euphemisms and the propaganda that, you know, you talk about often that's surrounding abortion, what it actually what it actually is. So SB 8, which is the bill that became law in Texas, as we kind of already mentioned earlier, it would allow a citizen to sue, say someone like your boyfriend, if he helped you in any way, or someone who helped the abortion, aided and abetted the abortion financially, even I believe it would, if the babysitter who babysits the woman's other children

why she's going to get an abortion, all of those people are not condemned under the law. They can just be sued for, I believe it's up to $10,000. Now, you're talking about this being a men's issue where, for example, your boyfriend realized years later, wow, this was wrong. Now, I wonder if SB 8 had been in place and someone had sued him. him into what may have been at that point financial ruin, like, do we think the redemption that he then experienced and the healing that he then experienced would be possible? I guess what I'm asking is, as someone who is supported, I support pro-life laws.

I support SB8. But do we think that it can be counterproductive to the healing process that you and I both believe is important to people who have experienced abortion? I don't know. I'm kind of putting you on the spot, but what do you think about that? I support it as well, for sure. Do I think it would be counterproductive had it been in place then? Is what you're asking me. Or do you think it could be counterproductive for men now? Say a man is sued because they helped their girlfriend get an abortion. Do you think that it could be counterproductive in his healing process and ruin his life in some ways? I mean, what do you think about that?

Do we just kind of have to live in that tension of not really? I think we have to live in it. I think that the law is, I'd love to see this law in every state. I think that if people are so concerned about it, they should get educated and pay attention and ask it, look, if you're going to drive someone to go drive a car and they're going to go in and rob someone, but you didn't, you know, well, hey, I didn't go in there and they killed them, you're going to be held accountable. So I think that, I,

I don't want it. I think it's a great law. I don't want it to change. I think more people have got to start taking responsibility instead of sticking their heads in the sand or saying, that's not my problem. I don't want you to have a baby, so you're going to go have this abortion. You know, they're not thinking about what it's going to do to her because they don't care or they do know and they still don't care. Yeah. So no, I think part of the healing's going to come because you're so desperate and you're so vulnerable that you get to a place where you're sick and tired of feeling that way. Ali, I've had people that are atheist and agnostic who at least profess they are. Tell me, I want to go through your healing retreats because I don't believe like you do,

but I cannot live this way anymore. I have been seeing a doctor for years and years. I've been on different antidepressants. Nothing is changing how I feel. What they don't know that I know is that our children were created before, in our mother's womb. He knitted us in our mother's womb. knew us before we were even knitted in our mother's womb. So it's only a spiritual God that can fill that void that you feel from abortion. And that's why I think so many people looking at other ways to

find healing aren't finding it. Yeah. And that's the reason, because the secret is only God can do it. Yeah. There has to be that balance of accountability because the accountability that is placed on people who aid and abet and perform abortions is for the protection of the child. We care about the protection of the child, even as we care about the healing for the men and women who have had abortion in their lives. But we can't say that healing and accountability are mutually exclusive. Yes. I mean, they have to go together if we care about the right to life for the baby, which we unequivocally do, even as we care about loving healing. We can't say, well, this may hurt your healing. So we're going to make an exception for you. Yeah. I agree. I hear. I hear. I hear. I hear.

exactly what you're saying. I totally agree because the unborn child has rights as well. Yeah. And so you can't That's what's so often forgotten in these conversations. It is. Not our conversations, but pro-choice conversations for sure. Oh, it's not forgotten. They know. They know. They just paint the narrative the way they need to

to keep that multi-billion dollar industry alive. Yeah. They know. Abortionists have even know they're aborting children. They've said it. They know exactly what they're doing. But if they can convince enough people to believe it's not an the child has no rights because there's nothing there they'll keep their business going

yeah so it's a sick business it's a sick business but you're doing amazing work from all different size convincing people that abortion is wrong while also offering help afterwards a lot of people I won't say a lot of people aren't doing that because I think there are so many pregnancy resource centers that are doing that but a lot of people don't know

that that is what is being offered. Can you tell people, like, how can they get in touch with you? How can they learn more about these healing retreats? I know there are people out there. They're saying, wait, I need that. Where can they buy your book? All that good stuff. You can go to reassemblelife.com and find out about the retreats. Send an email through there. And you can get my book right now on Amazon. Apparently Amazon bought my publishing company. So it's on Amazon now. But I will be offering it as well on the website because a lot of people tell me, can I get your book a different way? So reassemblelife.com is a way to get in touch with me.

I'm on social media, Instagram, Facebook. I deleted my Twitter account. Yeah, I understand. That during the election period. But find me. And I will make sure and help you find the resources you need. Whether it's a reassemble retreat or a different kind of retreat, whatever works for you. I will help you get the help you need.

Okay. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time. Thank you, Allie. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issue facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality

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