Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 528 | What Progressive Christianity & Prosperity Gospel Get Wrong About Jesus | Guest: Costi Hinn

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Today we're talking to Costi Hinn, a pastor and the founder of For the Gospel Ministry, about a variety of topics related to prosperity gospel. Costi tells his own story of coming from believing prosperity gospel to his now more biblical views. We discuss what's wrong with the prosperity gospel, from untouchable faith leaders to churchgoers locked into their "name it and claim it" mantras. Costi has written a book, "More Than a Healer," in which he tries to help people gain a more complete picture of Jesus and which seeks to get people to understand what biblical justice is, even if the truth is difficult to hear.  --- Today's Sponsors: Annie's Kit Clubs send you a new shipment every month with all the instructions & special supplies you need to make something. They have an amazing selection to choose from too — crocheting, knitting, cardmaking, jewelry-making, quilting, sewing — or choose the general crafting club that sends you some of everything. Go to AnniesKitClubs.com/ALLIE & save 50% on your first kit! NetSuite by Oracle — the #1 Financial System — gives you visibility & control of your financials, inventory, HR, eCommerce, and more. It's everything you need to grow, all in one place. NetSuite is offering a one-of-a-kind financing program only for those ready to switch today! Go to NetSuite.com/ALLIE right now! Good Ranchers exists to support local American farms that help you make great American meals for your family. Foreign meat is stealing their business & robbing you of the quality & flavor you deserve! Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE right now & you'll get 10 free bistro filet medallions with your order of American meat. Plus, if you subscribe you'll save $25 on each box & using promo code 'ALLIE' gets you free express shipping! --- Past Episode Mentioned: Ep 257: Leaving the Prosperity Gospel Behind and the Deconversion of Christians | Guest; Costi Hinn https://apple.co/3qYzATr --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Today, I am talking to Kosti Hinn. He has written multiple books. He has recently written the book more than a healer.

And we're going to talk about that today. We're going to talk some about social justice. We're going to talk about the prosperity gothast. If you don't know, Costihan is the nephew of Benihin, the very famous televangelist prosperity preacher. Our last conversation that we had several months ago, we'll link it in the description to this episode, talked about coming out of the prosperity gospel world and how he came to know the true gospel and how Costi became a pastor. And so we talked about his testimony and why it's so important.

that we talk to people who are sucked in to the prosperity gospel and present them with that, which is actually true. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that today as well as some other hot topic issues. He's such a great person, an awesome author. You're going to enjoy this conversation so much. So without further ado, here is Costi Hint. Costi, thank you so much for joining us again. I'm really excited to talk to you. Last time we talked about your first book or your last book. And now you've written another book more than a healer. Can you tell us why you wrote this book? Yeah, I was going through a season. I think like most people where 2020 was happening and it became sort of an illustration. People would say, that's so 2020 or man, what 2020 couldn't do already that

it hasn't done. And so as I was sitting at home and we were holding services here in Arizona, Arizona is kind of like the Wild Wild West. So during COVID and some of that stuff, we were free wheel in and going. And I noticed so many people in despair. The world was going crazy. There were race wars, social justice issues, people storm and everything. I was just in Atlanta recently, right around where protesters smashed in windows, the streets were going crazy. You covered a lot of it really well. And I just started thinking pastorally, we need Jesus, like for real. We need a Jesus awakening. And we do need, you know, to assess justice and social justice the right way. And we need our pastors to stand strong. And we need people like you and others to have

courage. And we need to stand for conviction. And we should be involved in the political forum and bringing conservative Christian views to the table and fighting for our freedom. In the midst of all that, though, I wanted to make sure that pastorally I was guiding people to Jesus through it all. So the goal isn't just to win our ideological war. But the goal is to still glorify Christ and exalt him. And there's a lot of hurting people that were spinning. confusion. They don't have answers. They're not as well studied as you or as me or as other people on these issues. And they're going, who do I believe? What do I do? The world is spinning. And I felt like people needed a Jesus awakening and a reminder of who is really on the throne.

Yeah. And tell us about the title and why you chose the title, because when I see it, I think about your background, obviously coming from the name it and claim it, prosperity gospel in which you grew up in which maybe God was seen not just as this immediate healer, but also as someone who is going to provide you with the financial material blessings that you earn by declaring it, by manifesting it, by, you know, your faith, whatever it is. So when I saw that title, that's kind of where my mind went, knowing your background. But can you kind of give us some context. Totally. It all plays in to where people were naming and claiming the COVID virus gone or naming and claiming and prophesying whoever was going to be president. And people name and claim their

job promotion, their Bentley, their bigger house. They shout out into the airwaves like Joel Osteen will tell them, you know, just profess it and confess it and then you'll possess it. And everyone's going to Jesus to get what they want from them. He's like a magic genie. And if you say this or believe this or give this he'll do it and i thought yeah jesus is completely a healer the bible paints him as a healer and he can heal our nation and he can heal your financial issues as long as you're not racking your credit card and then expecting god to pay it off but true poverty and challenges that you're going lord and need you to help and heal this season in our life he can heal a marriage he can heal the body he could heal all these things but people are going to him for always

what he can do they want the healing the healing the healing and this book is pointing them to the healer. We went through that personally. Three months into our third son's, our third child's life, our son, Timothy, was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer. And I remember thinking, wow, we're actually going to live what I've been preaching about God being sovereign and this world not truly being our home and about Jesus still being good even when things are not, whether in our country or in our own lives. And so it was a personal kind of writing project out of my heart, pastorally and practically in our home, around our community,

and I think in our world today, where people are chasing Jesus for all that he can do, and they are forgetting all the other facets of who he is. So chapter one, he is healer, absolutely. But also we want to be careful demanding that he heal and saying he has to because we named it and claimed it. and had enough faith and see that he's still hope. He's still peace.

He's still good. He's still justice. He's still sovereign. Even in the midst of all the craziness going on around us. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity,

and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives. and we don't offer false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. When you were dealing with your son's cancer and you, as you said, you recognized, oh, wow, I'm going to actually live out the things.

that I have been preaching about for a while. What did that look like practically on a day-to-day basis for you? What did your prayers look like? Was there a struggle there when you know, you know that God's sovereign, you know that he's still good? That's not dependent upon our circumstance. And yet when it's your child, I mean, that is every parent's worst nightmare to say, how could God let this happen while still knowing that he's still faithful and merciful? So what did that kind of coming to terms look like for you guys? Yeah, I'd love to say that I was this stalwart warrior and had zero emotion while my wife was a basket case and I was just a pillar of strength and never had a doubt in my mind. Here's the reality. The moment my wife walked into the kitchen with the

report, she began to cry. And when she said the C word, I began to tear up as well. I sat down on the kitchen table chair. She sat down on my lap. I held her. She did cry. And the only things I could think of were to say, We weren't going to get out of this life unscathed and we're going to live what I've been preaching. But I had the same fear. I had the same concerns. And yet, when you look at Scripture and when you truly believe what we profess to believe, the emotions, they come and go. But what you know remains. And so I had normal and natural thoughts.

Okay, God, I might bury my son on this side of heaven. He may not bury me. Be our strength, be our peace, be our hope. hope, make our faith real. Make us strong in our moment of weakness because you're our strength. And then there were other honest fears, and I'll share this with you, Ali. My family, I remember thinking, oh, great, I know what they're going to say because I used to say this to people. Your son got struck with cancer because you touched the Lord's anointed. You called out the prosperity gospel. You called out Uncle Benny. You called out this guy. So you're talking about

like you're, which part of your family, just for the people who might not be even familiar with your background? Yeah. So my uncle is Benny Hinn, the guy in the white suit, who does a lot of the prosperity gospel stuff. And these TV preachers, you've seen it. I've seen it. If people haven't, just Google this, they will shout at cameras on the TV. Kenneth Copeland, he hit Inside Edition this last year. I mean, a lot of them still going strong. They will look in the camera and they'll tell you, don't you dare call out the anointed, don't you dare question. Don't you dare touch the Lord's anointed, they'll use kind of a Bible phrase, but twisted. And they'll say, if you do, you will be cursed, cancer will strike your home, poverty will find you. They do all these

threats. And it's a form of spiritual abuse. Don't come at me. Don't you say anything. It's a mafia gag order. So you were afraid that your own family who are still in that world would say the reason that your son has cancer is because you have criticized those health and wealth preachers, including your uncle. Yeah, and right away, as much as the, oh, great, thoughts came, I thought, no, no, no, what have we studied? What do we know? Throughout the New Testament, Paul the Apostle, called out false teachers. And these are verified false teachers. You look at what the Bible teaches, and you look at what they teach, and they're completely opposite. And we did an episode on that. I would encourage people just go to Allie's YouTube channel. We dove into that and made it clear.

And at the same time, Jesus called out the Pharisees who were adding to the words of God and putting burdens on people they couldn't even carry. And so I go back to what I know in the midst of the emotions and think, no, no matter what they say, it's a great opportunity to say, nope, God's good still. Nope, God's sovereign. But let me go one layer further. In the conversation, the Lord opened the door for my wife and I to even walk through family members and friends in the televangelist prosperity gospel world who have cancer. who have heart conditions, who have wives that have cancer, who have had issues they've hidden. And so without being sensationalistic and without being aggressive, we just sat there and said, what about this person?

What about this one? What about this one? Don't you guys see that Job was righteous and he got hit. Jesus was crucified. All the apostles were martyred except for John, but he withered away on Patmas. Everybody who lives godly for Christ is going to be persecuted and suffered. do you really think that this is because I called out complete abuse? And those were neat conversations.

And so again, emotions come, but we stick to what we know. And the Lord opened some doors. Those weren't always comfortable conversations. But thank the Lord most of amended well. Yeah, he used that suffering for his glory, which is the promise that we have, not that life is going to be easier, that we're going to have material possessions or material prosperity, but that God is going to use the suffering. is sure for his glory and for our ultimate good. And that's the thing that we have to hold on to.

And I do wonder, what is typically the response of those who do believe that God's favor equals material prosperity? What you just laid out is so clear and so biblical. It's hard for me to understand how someone could even deny that and say that it's not biblical. What is the typical response of you pointing out Job, the apostles, the suffering of God's faithful servants. I think in my experience, the responses are usually emotional. And so people will say, well, you just, you don't understand, or you're just jaded or you're just, and so it gets a little ad hominem character assaults. But some people will try to make the argument from the other side and say, well, Solomon was wealthy. What about Solomon? And David was a king and this, but I would still say,

Okay, but trouble found them. Solomon went through incredible suffering and turmoil. David, I mean, Solomon blew it. We could just sit and do a whole episode on his issues with sin and too many women and all of this. God gave him wisdom and riches and he still messed the whole thing up. And then the kingdom divides. David, sure, a wealthy king commits adultery. God reprimands him, loses a son.

And then Psalm 51, he says, against you and only you have I. sin and he repents and then the broken and contrite heart the Lord honors. So I don't care, I don't care who you mention all of that. Every single person suffers and endures trial. And so I try to engage people on that level. And then some people just say, well, I refuse to be negative. I refuse to give into that spirit of unbelief. I will prosper. I am the head. And what they're doing is they're repeating what they saw on the TV program. with Osteen or that, you know, their Oprah Winfrey one-liner that they throw out there. And they hold onto those because they don't know the scriptures. They don't have truth. They don't have the

healer. They're just chasing the healing. And so that's why we do what we do is we're trying to get into the minds of those people, which is where spiritual warfare happens. They are stuck in a mindset that dictates how they believe. And that is spiritual warfare. The devil loves that stuff. He loves messing with their minds and throwing up material things to lure him in. Yeah. And there are two different kinds of people professing Christians that it sounds like you're talking about because kind of at the beginning of this conversation, you touched on the professing progressive Christians, as they might call themselves those who believe that Jesus was some sort of activist, that Jesus justifies their left-wing social justice position. And then

you've got people on the other side, which I don't really know necessarily their political affiliation. Maybe most of them do identify as Republicans or conservatives. That seems to be the case. But they see Jesus as someone, like you said, who was just going to give them things. And so the book that you wrote, does it address kind of both sides of that fallacy, the progressive Christian who says, well, you know, Jesus is just an activist who wants me to. to do what I want to do. And then the other side that says Jesus is just a genie who's going to give me what I want him to give me. Do you kind of talk about both of those, how they differ and what they share?

Yeah, so there were two kind of bookends for me, the front half which locks in on that he's a healer, but not always the way we want. And then the goodness of God, I put some charts in there and showcased people and their pain and then the purpose of it. that's for the crowd that says, you know, it's always God's will to heal. It's always God's will. He just wants me this. So we deal with that at the front end. But to be honest, one of the most exciting chapters for me was a chapter called He is Justice. And I define justice biblically. And it isn't smashing in the windows of your downtown city center and looting. And it's not, you know,

overthrowing every form of authority and, you know, going into classrooms and, you know, redefining gender, it is a Jesus kind of justice. So number one, I talk about the justice of God and his wrath pointed at the center and the justice we truly need is the justification through Christ. And so we put Christ front and center. But then I talk about all the biblical ways that we can seek justice as Christians. Because you and I both know, we're not just going to sit around and go, well, let the world burn. We're not going to figure it out. We've been fighting for freedom and we've been standing for those who are aborted, the unborn, the innocent, bloodshed over the last decades in our country. There are many forms of justice that Christians can and should fight for.

And so I go through 10 marks of biblical justice or what I like to call the Jesus-style justice. And to be honest, it's going to mess with people. It's going to mess with the extreme left that want to go way too far into justice. And to be honest, it, It might even mess with some people on the extreme right that have made up their own definitions of justice in the name of some sort of spiritual crusade. But it brings it back to, I think what you, what myself, what so many others are trying to lobby for when people say, oh, so this and that, well, then you're just a racist. Oh, you don't believe this, oh, this. And then you bring up abortion and they say, well, what about this form and this form? Yeah.

And everybody wants to run off to the branches. I just wanted to keep us on the trunk. Here's what Scripture says. I know you got your own ideas. I know you got your own definition of oppression. And I know you got your own definition of what whiteness is and white privilege. And I know you're having a good time overthrowing authority because you're tired of whatever system you think is the system. And you're trying to get yours now and get paid.

But listen to me, this is what Jesus says, justice is. You and I don't have the right to try to redefine it because we're going into some Marxist theory and getting crazy in 2020 and 2021. So I, with respect to everyone's views. read the chapter and wrestle with scripture. It's not my own idea. When you mention the left going too far into justice, what you mean, and I think, and what I also mean too is not that they are just so passionate and overzealous about justice, but actually that they've redefined it to mean something that God doesn't actually define it as.

Justice is righteousness. There is only one true righteous one, and that is God. So he created justice, and we have the privilege. I actually, you know, talks to a Christian leader once. She's a very popular Christian leader, and we had some disagreement about so-called racial justice and social justice. And, you know, I brought to her attention, you know, this thing that was said, I don't see it aligning with scripture. It doesn't actually seem biblical. And she actually said to me, well, what if, and I'm telling you, this is a popular, non-progressive Christian teacher. She said, well,

what if we don't think about justice in terms of biblical or unbiblical? How about we just think of it is non-biblical. And that is really, I mean, that's upsetting to me. This is a Bible teacher who has lots and lots of influence. We are so privileged that the Bible does explicitly talk about justice so clearly in so much that we don't have to have a non-biblical, secular view of it. I mean, it's impossible. So, I mean, I guess my question to you is, I mean, this is a person who would consider herself a conservative teacher, a conservative Christian, who a lot of, of people follow, and yet that is her view of justice, I guess, apparently, and how we should approach it. Like, do you see a problem within not just the far left church, but just mainstream

evangelicalism, mainstream Christianity of pastors and teachers not being able to approach the subject of justice in a way that is biblically clear? I see that problem. And so I want to hear your take on it. Yeah, we have an authority of scripture issue. So in the list that I put in the book, one of them is love your neighbor okay everybody knows that that comes from the bible love the lord your god with all your heart mind soul and straight then love your neighbor is yourself this is the greatest commandment this is jesus making it clear the problem is when we define love your neighbor as the way we want to but i can't i have to love my neighbor the way scripture would direct which is going to be first to love them in truth and second to see needs and meet needs like the good samaritan

And all the religious people stepped over the beaten up Jewish man and the Good Samaritan, even though he can't stand. The Jews says, I should probably help this guy. That's just general kindness to humanity. No one is lobbying that we abandon that. The problem is when we give into the cultural cries. The problem is when, well, that are unbiblical cries and that are just a push to overthrow authority. And then the problem ultimately is when the authority of scripture goes out the window like your friend who says, well, what if we didn't get into all the biblical, unbiblical? But we just, and then we're off the reservation. There is a major problem. And here's what I can only surmise is there's two groups. You have the darker motives, which this is just like any category in scripture.

You've got like false teachers that are genuinely trying to get rich. I think you have people who are in the justice wars to get paid. And I think of that when I look at various teachers and I look at people go on YouTube and these prominent once really clear, faithful, gospel-centered guys are getting on their whatever program, and they're shouting about reparations, and they're saying gold, hallelujah, like Eric Mason did. And he goes, and land, hallelujah. And they want their retribution. Why are we saying gold, hallelujah, land, hallelujah, like it's about getting rich.

If you want justice, let there be justice. But if you want more stuff, well, now we're into some prosperity gospel that's just using justice to get there. But then I think you have this whole other crowd that are genuinely broken and hurting for humanity and they want to see justice. Yeah. And that's the crowd that I would say, I want to engage and form the approach through scripture like you're saying. And then we all submit together, not because someone's convincing and not because we're scared of being called white, privileged racists, or because we're scared of people slandering us. But truly, we want truth and we want true justice. So yeah, left, right, all that, it can get extreme.

I think in the end, we have what has always been an issue regarding the authority of scripture. Last thing I'll throw a chaletallie. Do you remember kind of church history gone by, but not that old, the Chicago statement on inerrancy and guys like R.C. Sprole and John MacArthur. I think that was like in the 90s or 80s? I don't remember. It was even back before.

Yeah, these wars were going on kind of through. 70s even and into the 80s. But what for us now, you and I were younger. So that's like 30 years. That's church history now. The 40, 50 years. But the issue was authority. Here's how I think Satan works. He is not very creative. He's just sneaky. He goes, let me take the same old issue. Let me undermine the authority of what scripture says. Let me just pick a new way to do it. So Eve in the garden, did God really say Eve? Oh, surely you won't die. Eat the fruit.

Go for it. Inerrancy of Scripture. Ecumenical councils, ecumenical partnerships, all with the Catholic Church and this church and that church. And things start getting a little squirrelly. And guys go, well, we want to all just kind of go along to get along. Guys like Sprole and MacArthur and others go, no, this is what it is. And people attack the historicity and the inerrancy of Scripture. They stand.

And then now it's just a new face on, I think, what is an old strategy. And Satan's using social justice wars and the issues of our day to attack. And so what we're watching is the result of 30 years of illiteracy biblically. We're watching the result of 30 years of playing church in the American church. And go into your Rick Warren purpose-driven life, happy-go-lucky Disneyland campus, and letting the pastor punch your ticket to heaven, stick you on the train and drive you all there and write his books and have an awesome, whatever. And then you're looking at your 21-year-old going, I don't get it. Raise a fist for what? Okay, I just want you to like me still as your parent,

because I have no spine and I don't know scripture and I raised you by giving you to the youth pastor that had skinny jeans and emo hair and this is supposed to work. And I'm not being insulting. This is reality. We grew up in this. We were there. this. So I want to lobby again for the authority of Scripture, truth being the filter through scripture, that which I pass everything through, and then submit and rest in the Lord. Yeah, this really isn't about, and I want people to hear this. This really isn't us talking about Democrat versus Republican or even left versus right. We're talking about all different kinds of people, really, that could be on either side of the aisle, especially when it comes to things like

the prosperity gospel, that's not necessarily a political ideology. What you're talking about is the authority of scripture and getting to who Jesus actually is, not just for what he gives us, but who he is and who he is and reliance on his authority and his word is what informs us on these very important issues. I mean, justice is super important. True oppression is really important, knowing what restoration and true reconciliation looks like, those things are really important. And then healing is important to people. People go through suffering. People need some kind of financial help and material help. All of these things are real. I think what Satan does, and as you said, not a creative way in just different ways, in different forms that he's done

forever, is he takes things that are good. He takes concepts that are good. And instead of saying, oh, you say that you want justice, well, I'm going to tempt you to, you know, go towards injustice. He just inverted it. He manipulates it. All he has to say is, did God really say what justice is? Did God really say that about suffering? Did God really say that about X, Y, Z? And then as you said, okay, well, now we're in the non-biblical territory. We go off to the races towards things that are completely anti-gospel and anti-biblical. And then people wonder, how the heck did I wind up here? How did I start deconstructing my faith? When did I end up completely leaving the faith? Well, it started with saying, did God really say and you agreeing with Satan that maybe he really didn't mean what God, what he said. Yeah. And let me for a moment speak to your friend, if they happen to see this video and even some of my friends who I love and I talk to privately, that I would call now religious entrepreneurs.

They're religious entrepreneurs. You're scared to lose your platform. You're scared to lose all your followers. You're scared to lose your conference invite. You're scared to lose the viewership. You're scared to lose the Instagram clout. you don't answer to Instagram followers. You don't answer to the conference honorarium.

You don't answer to the big dog that's here on earth trying to build their platform. We answer to Christ. So if you're going to stand up and say, I'm a leader for Christ, well, you better be following Christ. And I mean that in love. I'm not going to name names in this portion, but you know who they are, Ali. So do I. There's this whole wave of people that are chameleons. They start blending in wherever they go.

And they're after one thing to build their thing. And I get it. They'll say, well, I want to glorify God through this. And I want to be able to take the gospel in the places that normally it won't go. No problem. Get the invite to the big conference. Stand up on the stage and do your job so well that they either get saved or never invite you back. But we answer to Jesus.

The judgment seat of Christ is coming. And I think you've done a great job living in almost two worlds. You go into the political forum and you bring it. but you're always pointing back to the glory of God. You swing into the more church circles and you bring clear ideology and clear conviction to that. In the end, I know for you and get to talk with you and see your resume of faith out in the open is you're living for Christ. And that's how we all ought to be. So to encourage those of you watching, trying to figure all this out and maybe some of you that are at the crossroad of what to do now, who cares?

abandon it all so long as you're pleasing Christ. And I do think just thinking about the people I know in my life who are genuine believers, they're not false teachers, they're not false believers. I know I see the fruit, but who are confused about some of the things that we're talking about, who might think that there is some third way, there are some non-biblical option to looking at these justice issues or what seem like these secular issues. They are genuine believers, and I don't think that they are selfish,

but there is, like you said, there is this component of people pleasing and being afraid that, okay, if they truly are biblical about whatever this controversial topic is, then they'll be seen is unempathetic. That's the huge one or a bigot or whatever it is. That really is their fear. And it comes from a place originally of love, but I think sometimes it leads to a place of compromise. So just giving the most benefit of the doubt that I would also want to receive, if they thought that I was an error. I do think that's a motivation for a lot of people, but I would say, I would direct them to you and to your book and to the words that you just had to bring them back to the center to what is actually true. Yeah, the third way is not about redefining truth. And while here's

something clear and here's something clear, well, I choose this. The third way is not trying to redefine some middle of the road. Right now, you go middle of the road on too much. You're going to get run over and probably for good reason because you're not taking a stand. The third way, if we want to have a Third way, here's a third way. There's indifference and there's hatred. Indifference is whatever, who cares? Hatred is, oh, I'm going to get them all. Okay, here's a third way. Love. Don't be angry. Be kind. But it doesn't need to lead to compromise on truth. The third way is just be like the good Samaritan. Don't be indifferent and don't be a, excuse me, to use the word, but don't be a jerk. Don't be nasty. You don't need to be angry like it's your war. Here's a third way.

Be loving and kind, but be clear and truthful. Speak hard truth through tear-stained eyes. But the third way is not, well, let's not take a position. No, no, no, no, no. Just be loving. But realize, like Warren Weirsby once so helpfully said, he said, you know, love without truth. Sorry, truth without love is brutality. Love without truth is hypocrisy.

One of my favorite quotes. I'm a hypocrite if I don't bring the truth. And then I'm just brutal if I'm angry. So there's your third way, but it doesn't involve compromise on truth. Yeah. And just to bring it back, that's exactly what Jesus demonstrates. That's what he embodies in his ministry. There are things that he says that offend me as a sinner, and yet he does so because he loves us.

And that is essentially what your book brings us back to. So where can everyone find it? Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Christianbook.com. There's audible version, Kindle version. It's there online. and we appreciate you guys picking it up, sharing it with your church, a friend. I'll add one more element we didn't see coming. A large church just purchased about 300 copies for all of their team leaders in their

counseling departments across. They have several different campuses and pastors here and there in their network. And so one of the encouraging things there is this is a great way to learn how to talk to people who are hopeless. And so some counselors have started to use it as a guide for, here's how you approach. approach people in pain. And so not just another story or testimony about prosperity gospel or some, you know, rail job on false teachers. I want this book to reach the hearts of people everywhere. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much, Kosti. Thank you for joining us and thank you for writing it.

Thank you for you, Allie. Keep up a great work. Thanks, you too. Hey, this is Steve Deist. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity and reality itself. on the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular.

This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.