Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 537 | The Josh Duggar Case: Is Purity Culture to Blame?

Episode Date: December 13, 2021

Today we're talking about the Josh Duggar trial and how we as Christians should react when one of our own is exposed in such a way. First, we take a moment to acknowledge the disaster that occurred over the weekend in Kentucky, when tornadoes caused untold damage to people's homes. Then, we go on to discuss what happened with Josh Duggar and how his heinous behavior came to pass. We also debunk the ridiculous assertion that "purity culture" or "white evangelicalism" are to blame for Duggar's actions. Lastly, we give a reminder that reverence for children's lives is a recent development in human history and one that was only made possible through Christianity and scripture. --- Today's Sponsors: Chamonix from Genucel — from now until Christmas, Genucel's most popular package is 60% off at LoveGenucel.com/ALLIE! Treat yourself & a loved one to the absolute best skincare in the world. Reliefband is 100% drug free, non-drowsy, & provides all-natural relief & prevention of nausea & vomiting, plus zero side effects! Go to Reliefband.com & use promo code 'ALLIE' to receive 20% plus free shipping & a no-questions-asked 30-day money-back guarantee! Good Ranchers delivers boxes of American meat that's steakhouse quality & it's a great gift idea for everyone on your list! Go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE to get $20 off & free express shipping on your order. Your order keeps local, American farms & ranches open & donates 10 meals to people who would otherwise go hungry. --- Show Links: Theopolis: "What Jeffrey Epstein Got Right" https://bit.ly/3oQkez1 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. Today, we are going to talk about the Josh Dugger case and what we can learn from it. We'll look at some of the reactions to the verdict, respond to them, discuss how we should look at this as Christians. I will talk about what happened. what the case was, why he was charged and prosecuted. But I'll also kind of go down some different avenues that I thought of while I was preparing for this episode and some of the cultural issues and theological issues that I think this case speaks to. Before we get into all of that, I do want to just say that I am so sad and just heartbroken. It's gut-wrenching to look at the images

and the video of the devastation in Kentucky and in what's called the mid-south. I cannot imagine the pain that families are going through. I mean, definitely the pain of families who have physically lost, not just their items, not just their possessions and their home, but also family members, friends. I mean, this is going to devastate communities for years to come. It is going to be so difficult to rebuild, not just physically, not just buildings, but also emotionally, financially for people. It's hard to even quantify the loss that is being experienced right now. But in the midst of the rubble, in the midst of the decay and the devastation,

the church is showing up. There are Christians who are expending their time. They're Christians who are expending their time, their resources, their energy to ensure that people are cared for, to give people food, to give people shelter, to give people the resources that they need. And that is what the church does. Yes, we pray. Yes, we share the gospel. Yes, we love in the sense that we show people affection by giving them a hug and saying a kind word to them. But we also show up. We love through our actions. We are the hands and feet of Christ because we move forward with our feet, running into the chaos, running into the destruction, running into the fire, not away from it. And we use our hands to put out fires, to rebuild, to help, to hold, to do what Christians have always done

for all of Christian history. This is what the church does best. We run into the chaos and the confusion and the destruction. We rebuild. We bring peace. We bring clarity. And so as I am praying for everyone who lost someone, my gosh, there's just so much. There's so much sadness, guys. Like there's so much tragedy.

There's so much corruption. And while this isn't a moral evil, there is still. an evil and a sadness to, there's still an evil to, I think, be sad about here in the sense that this world is under the curse of sin. And we are awaiting its restoration. We are awaiting the coming of Christ when he is going to make all things new and he is going to rule in perfect peace. We not only won't have any tornadoes or any hurricanes or any natural disasters, but we also won't have any corruption. We won't have any wickedness.

We won't have any lying or manipulation or partisanship or any of the things that literally and figuratively tear us apart today. So there's something to mourn there. There is that moral aspect of it, theological aspect of it, in the sense that sin causes, in the grander sense, sin causes all destruction that we see in all decay that we see in the world. But thankfully, we have hope in Christ that he is going to make all things new. And he is going to restore and reconcile all things to himself. And so that's one thing that we have to look forward to.

But as I said, in the meantime, Christians are to run into the flames, run into the destruction and help to rebuild and to restore. And there are several organizations that are doing that. There are local churches that you can donate to. There are Samaritan's Purse. There is Convoy of Hope. And I have shared several links on my Instagram and my Instagram stories. And so I encourage you to go to my Instagram stories and to look at some of those.

I'll save them to a highlight so you can so they'll last longer than 24 hours. And so I encourage you to go look at that. And if there's nothing monetarily that you can do, then I do encourage you to pray the prayer of a righteous person, which is everyone who is in Christ, has great power. And already we see those prayers being answered and manifested through the work of the church and through the work of people who are just loving their neighbor by showing up and providing. And they'll continue to do that. And so in the midst of this tangible help that the church is bringing, we also pray. that hearts are changed, that the gospel goes out and takes root. When it looks like God is doing one thing, he's doing a million things. And God's work doesn't always make headlines, but there are a

million little glorifying things that are happening behind the scenes. People are being loved. Hearts are being changed. Souls are being one. Things are being restored and redeemed and reconciled. God is in the business of doing that, and he doesn't need a journalist to report on it in order for him to get the glory. God will get the glory. He will even get the glory in this. We know Romans 828, God works all things according to the good of those who love him, even when we don't get it, even when everything looks exclusively bad. He is working and he is doing good things. If you are in the area, what I've been told is that local churches, local organizations need hands-on volunteers. They need people passing out the water bottles and the food and the supplies and all

of that. I don't have, as I'm recording this on Monday morning, all of the information for, you know, which organizations are seeking help or how exactly to do that. My guess would be if you could connect to someone in the area, they could probably get you the information to be able to do that. If you are in Kentucky or somewhere close to these areas, then I would encourage you to, if you can, show up and help. This is, yes, what Christians do, but Americans in general are really good at this. Whenever disaster strikes, you see people driving for, for example, from Dallas to Houston or from Baton Rouge to Houston or from, you know, Texas to Louisiana, wherever it is, it seems like Americans are so eager and ready to give their time and their energy to those who need

help. I think that's really unique about the American experience and the American character, even in the midst of all of the bad that goes on here, even in the midst of all of the corruption, Americans are really good, at least not necessarily the governments, but the constituents, the people are really good at taking care of their own. So let's lean into that even more. This won't be the last time that disaster strikes, unfortunately, but we can do what we can to try to help those who have been affected by it today. All right, I just wanted to give some comments there and some encouragement there. Now we're going to talk about this Josh Dugger case. So Josh Dugger bore the brunt of justice last week as he was found guilty for possessing

child sex abuse material. Dugger, if you don't know, is the oldest child of Jim Bob and Michelle Dugger. This starts at the long-running TLC. see show, 19 kids and counting. I think there was a subsequent show called Counting on. I don't know if he was in that show or not. Dougger, Josh Dugger and his wife, Anna, have seven children. Anna just welcomed their seventh child. This is not the first time that Josh Dugger has been in trouble, according to People magazine, quote, in May 2015, a 2006 police report surfaced and revealed that he had been investigated as a teen for inappropriately touching five underage girls. two of his sister subsequently stepped forward as two of the victims.

Josh publicly apologized for his, quote, wrongdoing. And this is also, according to People Magazine, quote, a few months after apologizing for his wrongdoing in the child molestation scandal, Dugger has confessed to cheating on his wife, Anna, developing an internet pornography addiction and signing up for two paid subscriptions to Ashley Madison. Ashley Madison, People Magazine says, is an infidelity site, which prides itself with the motto,

life is short, have an affair. Oh my gosh, that is demonic. There was part, or here is part of Dugger's statement that he released at the time in 2015, quote, I've been the biggest hypocrite ever while espousing faith and family values. I've secretly over the last several years, been doing pornography on the internet, and this became a secret addiction and I became unfaithful to my wife. The last few years, while publicly stating I was fighting against immorality in our country, I was hiding my own personal failings. Josh Dugger says, as I am learning, the hard way we have the freedom to choose our actions, but we do not get to choose our consequences. I deeply regret all the hurt I have caused.

So many by being such a bad example, says Dugger, I humbly ask for your forgiveness. Please pray for my precious wife, Anna, and our family during this time. But obviously, there was more going on there because in May of 2019, child sex abuse material, and that is the correct phraseology rather than child pornography. because all sex with a minor is sex abuse because a child cannot consent. So there was child sex abuse material that was found on a computer at a car dealership that Dugger owned. And this is according to Fox News, quote, federal authorities said they began investigating after a Little Rock police detective. Oh, let me, let me just say. And you guys probably already know that this is going to be disturbing.

Some of the things, we're not going to get into any, you know, graphic depictions, obviously, of what was looked at because we don't know, actually. I mean, maybe some people know more details, but I didn't go looking for all the details. I don't think we need to know everything that he is guilty of. But still, we're talking about very sensitive and sad and disgusting subjects here. And so just, FYI, I'm letting you know, as you could probably tell when you heard that we were talking about this, you probably don't want to listen to this episode with kids in the car. So again, according to Fox News, they began investigating after a Little Rock police detective found child, they say child porn files, were being shared by a computer trace to Dugger. A federal agent testified in May that images depicting the sexual abuse of children, including toddlers, were downloaded in 2019 onto a computer at a car dealership.

Dugger owned. The defense had argued that someone else downloaded or placed the child pornography onto the computer at Dugger's workplace, noting. that no child pornography was found on Dugger's phone or laptop, but the jury was not swayed. The jury found him guilty on charges of possessing and receiving the child sex abuse material. The sentencing will happen in about four months. According to the judge, he faces up to 20 years in prison and up to $250,000 in fines after his conviction. Hey, this is Steve Dase. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Okay. So first of all, right off the bat, 20 years, in my amateur opinion, ain't nearly enough for this. He apparently looked at child sexual abuse of toddlers. Okay? We're talking about two to three-year-olds being raped. 20 years for that? Now, I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a judge.

I wasn't part of the jury. I'm just saying that 20 years seems light for helping to create demand for the kind of material babies were raped to produce. And yes, I believe people who produce child sex abuse material should get the death penalty. No question. There are very few, very, very few crimes I think solicited the death penalty. Very few. But the production and distribution of the sexual abuse of children, yes.

Now, may someone share the gospel with the person who does that and may God change that person's heart. Absolutely, even the most grotesque abuser alive, God can save and change 100%. But that does not negate the need for justice here on earth. You produce and distribute child sex abuse depictions, justice should be swift and final. I guarantee you, if we issued the death penalty swiftly and consistently for child pornographers, and we upped the penalty even more for those who view the material, there'd be a big change. We cannot even fathom, and should not even attempt to fathom, the darkness and depravity present, and the kinds of content Josh Dugger and others, like him, consumed.

The physical and emotional and spiritual pain caused to helpless innocent children for moments of fleeting, perverted pleasure? it's hard to think of anything more satanic. A millstone tied around someone's neck thrown into the sea would be a better consequence than what those people who do not repent of their sin will endure one day. And I know that what I'm about to say is kind of an aside, and kind of what I just said is a little bit of an aside, and we'll get back to, we'll get back to the main point and talk more about this case. But, I just want to take a moment to say and to remind you that children are the most marginalized, vulnerable group in the world.

And our society hates them. Our society hates children. And I've seen that even more so in the past couple of years, whether it's sexual objectification, physical abuse, which has increased over the past couple of years, thanks to, unfortunately, kids who were, you know, locked out of their school, forced into their home. a lot of times with the people who were already abusing them. So that abuse just increased. The abortion, the sick and unrelenting desire to indoctrinate kids with all kinds of confusion about their identity, the reproduction industry coupled with the redefining of the family, which equals babies and wombs becoming commodities. The COVID policies that have hurt them developmentally, socially, emotionally, and physically without providing them with any health

benefits, the interests and the well-being of children are routinely disregarded and denied. Now, I'm not saying that all of these things that I just listed are on the same level by any means. I know some people are going to say that I said that. That's not what I said. That's not what I'm saying. I am giving you a range of examples that show how disregarded the interest in the well-being of children are. And as another aside, I do worry about this attitude towards children. and this disinterest towards the interests and the needs of children and getting worse as our birth rate declines as it is doing in the West. As more and more young, people say they don't want kids. You don't have to be a parent to be compassionate towards children. You don't. I know a lot of people

who are not parents who are so compassionate towards children. But for a lot of people, becoming a parent is what activates empathy for children. And even if you are already compassionate toward their plight. It is quadrupled, at least, when you have kids of your own, because in every hurting child, you see your own child, and your heartache deepens and you're moved to advocate even more on their behalf. Matthew 19, 13 through 14. Then children were brought to Him to Jesus that he might lay his hand on them and pray. The disciples, rebuke to the people. But Jesus said, let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven. So it is no surprise that a world that hates God hates the children that he created and welcomed.

Conversely, the church should be a refuge, a safe haven, a wall of protection for the children God created and welcomes. And too often, that is not the case. Too often, the church is where crimes against children are covered up, are excused, are handled internally, are blamed on the victim. the Bible is sometimes used and abused to justify the abuse of women and children in the church. Josh Dugger claimed, and maybe still claims, I don't know, to be a Christian. He worked for the Family Research Council for crying out loud, which, by the way, is a great Christian organization.

But he put up a front for them and everyone else to look like a good guy when apparently there was a lot going on behind the scenes in the deep crevices of his heart and mind. he was talking about the importance of heterosexual marriage when he himself was engaging in the abomination of an affair. He was touting family values and encouraging legislation based on Christian principles to the Republican Party while doing things that would destroy his family, destroy his Christian witness. He was acting as a husband and a dad, apparently still procreating with his wife while consuming the sexual abuse of children. And I suggest that that is worse, even worse than a non-Christian doing the same things, committing the same heinous crimes. Why? Because of the hypocrisy. The one thing we see Jesus call out over and over again,

in addition to lots of other sins, but one thing that we see him so consistently call out, and you can just see and read the hatred of this in his words, the thing that he hates, looking good and holy on the outside, while rotting with sin. and depravity on the insight. And because of what that hypocrisy says to a non-believing world, I think, in one sense, what Josh Dugger did while claiming to represent Christian values is worse than someone who doesn't claim to represent Christian values doing the same thing. So I don't blame people for saying that he is a hypocrite for being anti-LGB and promoting family traditional values while having affairs and watching child sex abuse material. That is hypocritical.

That is disgusting. That makes you a whitewashed tomb. You're giving one set of rules to others acting like you are abiding by them when you're not actually abiding by God's law yourself. And honestly, Josh was doing much more harm to people by watching child sex abuse than some of the people that his work criticized. Now, sin is sin, yes, and harm is harm, but the hypocrisy, like I said, just adds another layer. Christians are called to a different standard, a holy standard, and we fall short, yes, but to point fingers in one direction toward another person's sin, while behind you as a whole host of hidden sin, the kind that actively, physically, sexually harms innocent children, that is just reprehensible beyond words. Now, he's not beyond God's

grace and forgiveness and redemption. All of us, as Ephesians 2 says, are dead and sin. It is only by grace through faith that we are made alive in Christ. So that is still possible for Josh Dugger, as it is possible for every murder, for every thief, for every abuser, for every kind of sinner in the world. And so as we condemn the actions of Josh Shugger, which are so disgusting and which God himself condemns, we all realize that we are sinners in need of salvation, in need of grace as well. Our sin doesn't look the same. It's not the same. And the imminent consequences are not the same. But we realize that we are all need of grace and mercy and forgiveness. But even in saying that, even in realizing that we are all sinners, that does not negate our

responsibility to call an atrocity and an abomination. What is an atrocity and an abomination? Which is what Josh Dugger's actions and lifestyle was slash is. I don't know what he's up to now besides being in jail. It's devastating. This whole thing is devastating. It's so sad. My heart breaks for the victims, first and foremost.

I'm also sad for his kids, who I know probably don't have the capacity, at least the younger kids, don't have the capacity to understand what's going on. They're not going to have a dad around. And I know that it's obviously good for Josh to be away from them. Totally in agreement on that. They are still going to be sad that they don't have their father. They don't understand, I'm sure, what he is guilty of. That hurts me for them.

That really hurts me for them. I mean, there's going to be a lot of trauma that's dealt with here. I'm sad for his wife who, shocking. seems to be standing by him. She was seen holding his hand walking into the courtroom. I'm sad that she's been through all this and will now be raising kids on her own. I'm sad for his siblings and for his parents. I know people want to throw all of them under the bus too. And I don't know very much about the Dugger parents and how they handled all of this. But at the end of the day, Josh Dugger is an adult who made his own decisions. A few siblings have released a statement, including Ginger

Volo and her husband, Jeremy, who by the way, are lovely people from everything that I know. They put out really good statements, thanking God for justice, expressing sympathy for the victims. I'm sure they're heartbroken and disgusted, and it's just not fair to indict the whole family because of the choices of one grown man. Now, there are people online, not just pointing out the hypocrisy, which is fair, but also trying to claim that this is symptomatic of Christianity in their Republican Party. They are tweeting out pictures of Josh with Republican politicians. They're saying this is because of conservative theology within Christianity or purity culture. They're arguing that conservative evangelicalism and Republican values

are what encourages and enables this kind of behavior, that it's toxic theology that makes this kind of stuff acceptable in the Dugger circles. Now, before I push back on that, I will say, I don't know very much about the Dugger family theology. I know apparently it's some kind of fundamentalist theology, but even that word has been so misused and has a million different meanings and possibilities depending on who you're talking to. The women were raised not to wear pants. The parents decided early on not to use contraception, but there are a lot of people in a lot of different denominations that believe in the sinfulness of contraceptions, well, specifically, hormonal birth control, any kind of contraception. They obviously are very traditional. They're very conservative,

certainly as far as gender roles go. There are some reports that say they're a part of some non-denominational religious organization, which with some seemingly, and again, this is based on reports of people who follow them much more closely than I do. Apparently, this organization has some cultish aspects to it. But here's the deal. with the Duggers, there's so much gossip about them online. Like, there are so many conspiracy theories and salacious articles and assumptions about their private lives and what they believe. And the truth is, I don't know.

I'm sure that now that many of them are adults, they and their families have their own Christian beliefs and probably don't share the same theology as their parents. Who knows? So I can't say that there was nothing in Josh's upbringing or in what he was taught that contributed to his actions. I don't know. But the truth is, none of us know. You really, you don't know. So you really can't say either way because none of us know everything that goes on in people's private lives. So in order to make the case that it's definitely conservatism and evangelicalism and purity culture and the Republican Party

that caused this, you'd probably need to be able to make the same accusations against the rest of the siblings too, right? Like, can't you just simply say there are parts of a person's theology or background or belief system that you disagree with and you even find toxic without saying that it is the exclusive or even primary reason someone watched child sex abuse material and come on like we know this we know that there are lots of non-Christian non-conservative non-so-called fundamentalist non-republicans who are sick perverts and abusers we know that all the guys in the CIA found guilty of watching child sex abuse material and then simply let off that we talked about last week that BuzzFeed reported on. You think these guys were some fundamentalist Baptist?

Or what about Chris Cuomo's producer? This news just came out at CNN. John Griffin, who was just arrested for grooming and sexually abusing little girls, at least one girl as young as nine. A de Blasio employee a few years ago was arrested for possessing child sex abuse material. You think Jeffrey Epstein and Gleine Maxwell were big into Southern Baptist, period. culture. Remember back in March when the judge in Milwaukee, his name was Brett Blom, he headed up Drag Queen Story Hour in his area and he was arrested for child pornography or child sex abuse

material. So don't even give me started. Don't even give me started on the fact that a lot of progressives think it's normal for a grown man in fishnet tiths and fake boobs to dance and read stories to little kids in libraries. Or the child drag queen shows where grown men are throwing dollars at boys. Or how about the story that I don't even think we ever talked about? This person named Alan Walker at Old Dominion University, he argued for, he or she, I don't know, argued for the destigmatization of, quote, minor attracted people. Or the Navy ship that was named after Harvey Milk, who so many on the left idolized.

And yet he prayed upon and raped a 16-year-old boy. when he was a grown man. Or the thoroughly documented roving gangs of male Afghan immigrants throughout Europe attacking and raping young girls. The list goes on and on if people not associated with conservatism or Christianity in any way who are child predators and who aid and abet predation. So this idea that this is typical for the right or for conservative Christians and that this is indicative in a broad sense of the toxicity of conservatism politically or theologically, it doesn't hold up. Again, you could argue if you have the facts to back it up that Josh's education and upbringing contributed to this in some way, you could list specific beliefs that his denomination holds that you think encouraged this. But does the rest of the family have this same problem?

And is it not a problem in other belief systems? The answer to the first, I believe is no. And the answer to the second, I know is no. So we're going to have to dig a little deeper there. I'd also posit that if your first reaction to the story is to find a way to blame Republicans, then you don't actually care about children. You care about the left versus right battle. That's it. And that means you've got something very dark in your heart that just needs a flashlight so you can examine it and clear out whatever decay is rotting there.

So here's the deal. God and his standards are the solution to the sin talked about here. And all sin, not the cause. God creating people in his image, as Genesis 1 tells us, demanding that we love and care for those made in his image, giving us guidelines for how we should treat one another and ourselves with respect as image bearers, giving us good parameters for sex within a right definition of marriage and family. That, when abided by, leads to joy, leads to fulfillment, leads to safety, leads to protection for women and children. In Leviticus 20, we read that people

and Israel and some of the sojourners with them had sacrificed their children to a false God, an idol, Malek. And their punishment was the death penalty by stoning. God abhorred their actions just as he abhors child sacrifice today, child abuse today. He hates the trampling upon the vulnerable. We see that manifested so beautifully in the life of Jesus who specifically, specially attends to women and children in a way that was not societally normal and condemns those who extort the weak and the powerless. God's commands for us in Scripture are based on his holiness, his hatred for sin, and his love for us. He wants good things for us. His boundaries and rules and precepts are good for people. I know you've got a lot of people saying that the

boundaries that are put forth by Christianity, by people who actually believe that the Word of God is authoritative, that those are the problems that if we just liberate ourselves from sexual ethics and boundaries and people just do what they want to do at all times, then somehow that's going to lead to better outcomes and more protection and safety for children. It's the opposite. It's the opposite. His sexual ethic, his definition of right sex and marriage is good. His definition of morality of right and wrong is good. It's beneficial for us. It's from God's definitions of all of these things that we have the basis for anything actually good in society today, the concept of human rights being the most fundamental. That would not exist without

Christianity in Scripture. The caring for children and the vulnerable would not exist so prevalently in the West, at least as it has in history, without the foundation of Christianity and Scripture. That doesn't mean that the West has always gotten it right or anything. country has always gotten it right or the people within the church have always gotten it right. Obviously, as we already noted, because people are fallible. People are sinful. Institutions, countries, governments are made up of fallible and sinful people. And so they are going to make mistakes on an individual and a systemic level possibly. But anything good that has been accomplished, any good value that we have held as a society has been because of Christianity, because of the

God of the Bible. We want a society that protects the vulnerable and honors sex and marriage in a healthy way. We will not get that by running from the God who created those things. There's this really interesting article that I always think about. It came out a few years ago, 2019. Yes, that was a few years ago, which is crazy by a man named Ralph Allen Smith called what Jeffrey Epstein got right. Sounds like a bit of a scandalous title. But, what he talks about is really interesting. And I'm just going to read you some of the article. I wish I could read you the whole thing. I'll link it in the description to this episode. But he says a lot of interesting stuff. And so I want to read you at least, at least the most

interesting parts of it. So he said, quote, Jeffrey Epstein called our bluff. Right in the New York Times, James Stewart reports Epstein's opinion that criminalizing sex with teenage girls was a cultural aberration and that at times in history it was perfectly acceptable. Epstein was too generous. What we now condemn a statutory rape didn't just occur. times in history, the unpleasant truth is that, historically speaking, using children, even relatively young children as objects for men's sexual satisfaction has been the rule, not the exception. What we call child abuse is a recent category. It is not at all part of the way ancient people's thought or acted. The ancient cradles of civilization, Mesopotamia, Egypt, India, China, did not

because the whole concept was simply not part of who they were or what they believed. That's still the case in modern Muslim countries that allow slavery. said thought of as abuse or perverted. It was just what some men, actually very, very many men, did. So what happened to change all of this? Why is modern Western culture sensitive to this matter? What made our modern, postmodern world different? That is the question. But no one is asking it. Why not? Because the answer is too embarrassing to admit. One thing and only one thing happened to provoke a cultural revolution in one part of the world, though its influence has reached others. I suspect anyone reading this essay will know very well what this revolution was.

Christianity and only Christianity transformed the way people viewed human sexual relationships by universalizing the standards of the Old and New Testaments. The revolution was a slow process and the changes it brought varied from place to place. Often the revolution was only in the thinking of the Christian elite like Augustine, whereas other sorts of elite gave lip service to the ideas of the revolution, but in practice followed the good old ways. Satisfaction of sexual lust with little discrimination about time, place, or means the history of Europe includes too many examples to even begin to offer a short list. But there was a real, even if gradual change in thinking and social life.

Men in Europe were educated by the Christian Church of every denomination to understand sex as a gift of God intended for married man and woman. Within that sacred bond, it was or should be wholly good and beautiful. Outside of that sacred bond, it was for being. consider the alternatives. Was there any doctrine or practice in ancient Hinduism, a conglomeration of religious ideas and practices, not a unified religion that upheld the dignity of women and protected young women from abuse? Just to ask the question is to answer it. The same is true for Buddhism. In Buddhism, in Theravada Buddhism, the oldest form of Buddhism, a woman has to be reborn as a man even to have a chance at nirvana. Monogamy is not part of the religion or customs of the Buddhist lands. of course is the clearest example of all. According to Muslim sources, Muhammad Faye years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine. At the time, child marriage was common in the Arabic world, and what Muhammad did would not have been regarded as Adam's prophet, became a standard of righteousness for all time. Apparently following the prophet's example, the Ayatollah

Khomeini is said to have married a 10-year-old girl. Allow what the modern West would call child marriage. In none of those countries would the age of Epstein's young women be a problem. In fact, in some Muslim countries, he could have married and divorced young women over and over without legal problems. I've been Saoud, I don't know how to pronounce his name. The founder of Saudi Arabia had his many as three hundred wives, but as a good Muslim, never had more than four at a time. Only Christianity required strict monogamy, clarifying the standard already implicit in Judaism. It is to the church's shame that it has not been practiced as it should be. Abuses in Christian lands have been horrible as well.

But the Christian standard in Holy Scripture is clear. One man marries one woman until death parts them. There is no specific requirement in the Bible about the age of marriage. However, since childbearing is one purpose of marriage, it seems to be presupposed that the young woman to be married should be of childbearing age. Strict monogamy and the dignity that the Bible as a whole, and especially Jesus himself, accords to women, sets Christianity apart. In many ways, Epstein is typical of the sexually liberated man of the 1960s. Sexual promiscuity is considered normal and acceptable. Post-enlightment, post-modern men, no history and comparative religion is on their side

when it comes to having sex with young boys or girls, not to mention animals. He talks about Darwinism, if we are all just material objects, if we're all nothing more than grown clumps of cells, then why can't a man or a woman simply follow his animal craving for sexual fulfillment? What could possibly be the crime? Who could object to sex with young girls or boys, including small children? He asks if all we are doing is following our animalistic urges that were put upon us by evolution. He says, it is only a biblical monogamy that one can find a standard that protects women and children from predators. It is only if, law requires and social custom adheres to Christian monogamy, can one have a society that upholds

the dignity of men and women created as God's image and likeness? We've jettisoned this heritage, now everything goes. And in that setting, Epstein is not an aberration. He is a symptom. Epstein was right. Our semi-Christian sexual standards are a historical aberration. He called our bluff and forces us to make a choice. Either we embrace Christian standards or we create a world of Epstein's. a world where Jeffrey Epstein looks a little less monstrous because we'll all have become monsters. So, the gospel is the answer. The gospel is the answer for people who profess to be Christians, but don't actually adhere to God's sexual ethics like Josh Dugger. The gospel is the answer for people like Jeffrey Epstein and Galane Maxwell for every child abuser in existence.

The gospel is the answer, both for forgiveness and the way forward. God's standards are the answer. If you look at Ephesians 5, which of course, feminist and progressive throw out because it is seen as so patriarchal the command that husbands are to love their wives and wives are to submit to their husbands as to the Lord. The reality is, is that structure, that command was radical at the time, not because it commanded husbands to, or not because it commanded wives to submit to their husbands, but because it commanded husbands to love and to care for their wives to the point of death, to the point of complete self-sacrifice. Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church and gave himself up for her.

That was the standard that God called men to, that society at the time was not calling men to. There was no protection for a woman even within marriage. But God created marriage, monogamous marriage, between a man and a woman. God created the family for the protection of women and children. God's ways always protect the most vulnerable. This is still God's world. He is still the authority. He is still the answer for all of the problems that we face. Like I said, he and his standards are the answer for those who profess to know him and yet act differently. His ways, his gospel is the answer for those who don't know him and are committing some of the same sins and the same crimes that we talked about today.

we are not going to get good things by running away from God's standards. We are only going to get a world that protects the most vulnerable by adhering to God's standards for sex, for marriage, for self-respect, for respecting other people, for treating other people with respect and with love. God and his standards are the answer. All right, so we're talking about lots of different things this week. This is the last week that we are going to be in studio, starting next week, we will have pre-recorded episodes playing out. Next week will be some fun Christmas episodes. I think I'll do a theology episode for next Thursday that is hopefully encouraging to you

right before Christmas. And then the next week, I'm having two awesome conversations, Dr. Brett Weinstein. You probably know him. He is a scientist. He has been talking a lot about how the government has totally fumbled the ball when it comes to their response to COVID. He's been talking a lot about the vaccines and alternative treatments to COVID. But we're also going to talk about, you know, he's a liberal. And we're also going to talk about how the left has become so illiberal and the consequences that he's faced because of that.

And we're also going to talk to Victor Davis-Hanson, who was one of the most brilliant people ever. And we're going to talk about the state of the country and what the solutions might be for all of the problems that we're facing. And so you can look forward to those four episodes coming out over the next couple of weeks. Also, one of the episodes that we're doing next week will include some voicemails from you guys that I asked for last week. So I asked you guys to send me your unpopular Christmas opinion. So what is it? Like what does everyone love about Christmas that you just think is weird, that you don't like, that you don't enjoy? I want to hear it. I'll share some of my opinions too. Leave me your voicemail and we'll play a few of them. We'll be able to play all of them,

but just leave it. Keep it quick. Keep it punchy. 682-503-1369. That's 682-503-1369. Would love to hear your voicemail. Also, if you love this podcast, please leave a five-star review. That would mean so much to us on Apple Podcast. Thank you guys so much for listening. We will be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality.

We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.