Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 547 | The Christian Nationalist Bogeyman

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week. So far, happy Wednesday.

Starting point is 00:00:54 If you haven't listened to Monday and Tuesday's episodes, make sure you do that. Got lots of good stuff. Talked about lots of things in both of those episodes. This episode is brought to you by our friends. at Good Ranchers. We love Good Ranchers, beef and better than organic chicken at our house. Make sure you check them out at Good Ranchers.com slash All right. Today we are going to talk about a few things that are just grinding my gears. We're going to talk about these accusations of January 6th being the same thing as 9-11 or as Pearl Harbor and this threat of Christian nationalism

Starting point is 00:01:33 that we are just seen everywhere. I want to want to give you my response to that. We'll talk about a few other things too. If I have time, I'm also going to answer some questions that you guys sent me on Instagram. First, let's talk about January 6th a little bit. I know you guys are probably tired of hearing about January 6th. So am I. But we're not going to stop hearing about it because this is going to be what the Democrats continue to use to convince people to give them more power. It's a little ironic that while they're saying that the right is threatening democracy and they're using January 6th as proof of that, they are asking you to give the federal government more power over things like elections. As I mentioned yesterday and maybe mentioned Monday as well, that's going to be the next big push.

Starting point is 00:02:26 So Joe Biden's signature legislation, that huge bill, build back better that had all kinds of left-wing agenda. items, maybe some good things, maybe some bipartisan things, but ultimately the cost was just too high to get enough senators on board. And of course, Republicans are glad about this. Conservatives are glad about this because of the price tag and also just because of the socially left wing items that were in the bill. So because that failed, at least for now, they're going to try to push this voting bill. And what they're saying is, of course, that we have to push this because states are trying to restrict people's right to vote and they are disproportionately affecting black and brown communities in states like Texas and Georgia that have passed voter integrity laws.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Now, we talked with Governor Kemp of Georgia about just the straight up propaganda that was circulating about the Georgia election bill last. year. Most of what was being said negatively about that bill simply was not true. It was just based in a lie. We'll link that episode in the description to this episode so you can go back and listen to it. And the same was true about the Texas bill. It's simply not true that the effect of these bills or even the intent of these bills is to restrict voting access in any way. This is a concern of a lot of people on the right, of course, that our elections have integrity. One of the main things that conservatives push for is voter ID because people who are not citizens in this country should not be able to vote.

Starting point is 00:04:20 And that is common sense in most countries around the world. That is not some extreme right-wing position. It's just common sense. there are even blue states that have these laws. And we are being told, however, that that is racist because that disproportionately affects black people who apparently are less able to get an ID. I mean, this is being said by the same people that are requiring vaccine verification to access basic services and restaurants and bars and things like that.

Starting point is 00:04:56 in several Democratic run cities across the country. So really what it seems is that Democrats are simply trying to pass this federal voting legislation because they want to make it harder for states to be able to run their own elections and make it more difficult for Republicans to win. And they want to be able to grant the right to vote to illegal immigrants who they think are going to vote for them and secure their power. That is from my perspective what this is all about. This is not a piece of civil rights legislation.

Starting point is 00:05:29 This is not protecting democracy because democracy is not under attack by the right, despite what we heard repeatedly on the anniversary. I don't know what else to call it. Anniversary of January 6th. That's what we heard over and over again from Democratic pundits, from people who consider themselves, you know, principled conservatives, that January 6th was an assault on our democracy. that's why Democrats have to pass this piece of voting legislation to secure our democracy, but it's total projection and it's a farce.

Starting point is 00:06:02 So you probably heard that Vice President Kamala Harris, like in January 6th to Pearl Harbor in 9-11, apparently placing Americans in the same category as foreign enemies. I think that's significant. On MSNBC, there was a historian named Douglas Brinkley who echoed that sentiment saying that the nation is currently engaged in a neo-civil war because of what happened on January 6th last year. Democratic Congresswoman Ayanna Presley insisted that January 6th demonstrates this imminent threat of white supremacy to our country that underscores the need for Congress to restore voting rights. Again, I want to say voting rights are not in any way under assault. It is just as much a conspiracy theory.

Starting point is 00:06:52 There are equal components of conspiracy in the theory that there is rampant voter suppression as there is with the theory that there is rampant voter fraud. And so we talk about QAnon and Blue Anon. There are some fringe conspiracy theorists on the right who believe some aspects of Q&ONN conspiracy, but there are a far greater number of Blue Anon. believers on the left that believe conspiracy theories like there is rampant voter suppression in the United States. It's just not happening at least not on a wide scale. The requirement of voter ID, which by the way, about 77% of all American support has nothing to do with suppressing the

Starting point is 00:07:39 vote. But as I said, Democrats are going to continue to use January 6th as their way to gain more political power in the name of preserving democracy. The question I want to explore is, was January 6th an assault on our democracy? Was it a Christian nationalist, specifically, assault on our democracy? Now, I have to caveat this, and of course it's annoying because I've said it a million times, but you do have to because, of course, there are people that will take you out of contacts and I'll assume nefarious motivations and all of that. And so I just have to say that, of course, the violence that was perpetrated, I'm not talking about the peaceful people who went to the rallies and the peaceful people who protested, which a lot of people there were just at the rally. They wanted to hear President Trump speak and they had no part of the violence or the trespassing or anything that happened actually at the Capitol. But of course, the violence and the aggression that was perpetrated at the Capitol was wrong. It was totally can, it was totally. out of line. It was criminal. They should be prosecuted. I think we talked about this yesterday. Like,

Starting point is 00:08:50 I feel no need to associate or affiliate or justify or downplay any of the actual violence that was perpetrated at the Capitol. Okay. So we all know that. When I was watching the footage of what happened, and I'm talking about the people pushing down barricades and assaulting police officers and things like that. When I was watching that footage in real time last year, I cried. I mean, I really did feel like this marked something very tragic in American history. And so you could think I'm being dramatic by saying that, but truly, I mean, I remember that moment vividly and just feeling so sad for my country. So you can't say that I'm trying to downplay it or justify it or anything like that. But I can say, oh yeah, that was really bad and serious what happened there. And also,

Starting point is 00:09:38 say this assertion that this is a threat to our democracy and that the threat to democracy comes from Christian nationalists on the right is nothing more than projection. It's nothing more than a power play. And so I'm going to explain to you exactly why I believe that in just one second. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality.

Starting point is 00:10:14 We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. There were several articles that came out on January 6th of this year talking about the Christian

Starting point is 00:10:45 nationalism that was on display at the riot. Andrew Whitehead is the author of Taking America Back for God, and I believe that I've invited him on this podcast, but to no avail. I think we had a back and forth on Twitter, and I renew that invitation and maybe we'll reach out to him again. I would love to have him on to talk about his book, Taking America Back for God, he argues that 30 million, at least 30 million people strongly believe in what he calls the dangerous threat of Christian nationalism, which he believes has the power to topple over

Starting point is 00:11:19 American democracy. And let me just make a note really fast on democracy. I know a lot of people say we don't live in a democracy. We live in a constitutional republic, which is absolutely true. We don't live in a pure democracy. And I do think that progressives today would like us to live in a pure democracy, even though historically we know that that doesn't work, that it leads to the tyranny of the majority and that it can lead to mob rule and that it doesn't actually lead to justice inequality and all of the things that have made America for a very long time. Great. But typically when people say democracy, they're not talking necessarily about a pure democracy.

Starting point is 00:11:54 They might just be talking about, you know, the democratic idea of being able to vote, peaceful transfer of power and things like that. So while I do think it's a legitimate pushback to say, hey, America is not a democracy. It's a constitutional republic. I do want to give the benefit of the doubt to people who say, hey, we're trying to preserve democracy, that maybe they just mean, you know, democratic principles that allow us to select our, you know, representatives. So when Andrew Whitehead in his book talks about this threat of Christian nationalism to democracy, he defines Christian nationalism basically as the belief that America is and must be kept a Christian nation.

Starting point is 00:12:36 Now, interestingly, in time, magazine, an article in an article that he wrote that came out on January 6th of this year, he talks about one hallmark of Christian nationalism being wanting to protect the integrity of elections. And so it's interesting how he collapses, all of these very legitimate concerns that a lot of conservatives have about actually protecting our democratic processes with the dangers of Christian nationalism. And that's, of course, what I would love to talk to him about on my show. So Kevin DeYoung, he writes for World Magazine as I do, and he wrote for the outlet about the logical problems with that definition that Andrew Whitehead gives. He asks some really good questions about like what specifically makes the characteristics that Andrew Whitehead lists as characteristics of Christian nationalism bad and dangerous and theologically incorrect.

Starting point is 00:13:33 And then another question that I think that we should ask is how should. should Christians then interact in the public sphere if they are not allowed to bring their worldview into civic discourse? If Christians, and I guess Christians alone are not allowed to allow their faith to inform what they think about policy, is that also true of secular atheists? Everyone has a worldview. There's no neutrality. So why is it that when Christians try to influence policy in their communities and laws and issues with their particular perspectives that they are called evil Christian nationalists that are a threat to democracy. But when secular progressives, who by the way, are far more willing to use the power of the government to impose their views

Starting point is 00:14:26 on other people, why are they not called a threat to democracy? So very good questions. I recommend that article by Kevin DeYoung, which we can link in the description of this podcast. But I want to explore this question in particular. Is Christian nationalism a major threat to democracy as Whitehead argues in Time magazine? Also in the New York Times, there was an article by Catherine Stewart. She says that, quote, American democracy or that Christian nationalism may succeed in making quote, American democracy, a relic of the past. Russell Moore and Christianity today, he is also written about what he sees as the

Starting point is 00:15:08 dangerous popularity of Christian nationalism within evangelicalism. He has also said that critical race theory is not a threat or not something that it is at all pervasive within evangelicalism. And of course, I would push back on that as well. Russell Moore is also more than welcome to come on this podcast and we can discuss these very important issues. He claimed in Christianity today on January 6th that the riots, or he calls it an insurrection, even though no one, by the way, has been charged with insurrection or I believe terrorism.

Starting point is 00:15:40 So it's a little strange when people use that language. It's just not legally, factually accurate. But Russell Moore argues that the day represented a threat to American democracy. Now, there were religious symbols that were present at the riot. There were people holding up Jesus save signs. There were people with crosses. I think the shaman guy, he said something about Jesus, but I don't think that he's actually a Christian.

Starting point is 00:16:09 I think he's some new age person with a very strange worldview. But there were Christian symbols on display there. Maybe some perpetrators of the violence also identified as Christians. I'm not really sure. And there was also a conflation, I think, of Christianity. with Trump's victory. I think we saw that with some people who claimed to get a prophecy from God that Trump was supposed to win, that that was what was going to save the West and save America, that Trump was, you know, God's chosen person in order to restore America as a Christian nation.

Starting point is 00:16:47 Some people were calling what happened on January 6th or at least the rally before like a Jericho March, I guess that they were going to pray and things were going to change to go in favor of Trump. And so there certainly was conflation of Christianity with Trump's victory. And there seems to be within that view, this idea that America is God's chosen nation, that America is modern day Israel, that the promises in the Old Testament to Israel are actually promises to America. And I've talked about that, how that is faulty theology, that that is not true, that God's chosen people is the church, that we, those of us who are in Christ,

Starting point is 00:17:31 no matter what your nationality is, no matter where you live, that we are God's holy priesthood, that we are God's chosen people, that America is a wonderful place, it's a special place that I think that God has uniquely blessed in a lot of ways. I think our founding documents are wonderfully and specially, specifically founded upon biblical principles that has allowed us over time to recognize the dignity of all people that has created the freest and the most flourishing constitutional republic and the oldest constitutional republic in world history. So I think that there are so many wonderful parts of America because of the foundation

Starting point is 00:18:15 that the founding documents were built upon in scripture. The right to life to not be murdered, the right to property, the right to due process, all of these were founded in the laws that God gave to Israel. That does not mean that America is modern day Israel or that America is God's chosen nation. So I am fine with pushback. I am fine with pushback against some of the theology that some of the people perhaps present their hold and some of the rhetoric that seems to just get Christianity wrong and seems to center America in biblical prophecies and believes that the fate of America is an integral part

Starting point is 00:18:59 of, you know, the coming of God's kingdom and the end times. I think it's fine to refute that. I think it's great to detach Christianity from some of the things that we saw at the Capitol riot. That is all well and good. I don't have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is this idea that Christian nationalism is this grave threat to or is the biggest threat. to evangelicalism and is a grave threat to American democracy. I just don't think that we have evidence to show that at all. I mean, let's just think about this. Let's just think about this logically.

Starting point is 00:19:36 We have been hearing for decades from intelligentsia, from academia, that the Christian nationalist, fascist, theocratic state is imminent. We've been hearing that since at least the 1970s, that Christians are going to take over and it's going to be. be the handmaid's tale basically and that they're going to force you to do all of these things that Christians want you to do. That's happening. That's going to happen really soon. And yet, what does, what does the data say? Pew Research just came out with a new study that reiterates what we have been hearing for at least the past 15 years that America is becoming

Starting point is 00:20:16 more secular. I'll read you some of the numbers. So in two, 2007, that's what this study covers, 2007, 78% of U.S. adults identified with Christianity. From 2007 to 2021, that dropped by 15%. So now only 63% of Americans identify as Christians. The number of people who identify with other religions has remained stable. It was 5% in 2007. It's only 6% today. but the number of people who now identify with no religion has risen steadily.

Starting point is 00:20:55 16% in 2007, 29% in 2021. So almost a third of the country identifies as religiously unaffiliated. And the biggest groups that we have seen that change in is millennials and then, of course, Generation Z. So America is becoming more secular, drastically, dramatically. America, also a study by Pew Research, shows that America has become more liberal over the past few decades, especially since Barack Obama became president. We've talked about that a lot. Let's consider the fact that every major institution in the United States today, much of the federal government, academia, the public school system, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, the country's most powerful corporations, and most of the mainstream media are all done. dominated by left-wing ideology. So the institutional power, much of the military, much of the federal government.

Starting point is 00:21:57 They are all at least socially, if not completely economically as well, left-wing. Just consider how much has changed over the last decade that proves this trend towards secularism and leftism. It's hard to even imagine this. But 10 years ago, the majority of Americans opposed same-sex marriage. Only 48% of Americans in 2012 supported the legalization of same-sex marriage. And then, of course, in 2015, gay marriage became legal. That's only a few years ago. It's crazy to think. Only seven years ago was Obergefell, the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage. And now the vast majority of people, I think it's over 70% probably more than that because I think this pupil that looks at this, it stops in 2018.

Starting point is 00:22:52 So I'm sure it's 75, 80% of Americans now support same-sex merit. That happened really fast in a matter of just 10 years. Think about just five years ago. We were not having debates about preferred pronouns. And we probably weren't having as many debates, serious debates, about men competing in women's sports, just wasn't mainstream. Things have changed really fast. The progressive sexual revolution has successfully won many people over, including professing Christians, many of whom call themselves ex-vangelicals, who may still identify as Christians, but accept almost every single

Starting point is 00:23:32 worldly piece of worldly dogma when it comes to sexuality and when it comes to morality, as well as almost every single agenda item of the Democratic Party. So knowing all of this, it just seems very far-fetched in a country where, for example, bakers and florist lives are nearly ruined completely for simply abiding by their own conscience and sincerely held religious beliefs by refusing to service gay women. weddings. But a gender-confused girl can receive hormone therapy without her parents' consent in the state of California, in Oregon, and elsewhere. It's just hard to believe in a nation where that's happening, in a nation where drag queen story hour has become mainstream, in a nation where

Starting point is 00:24:31 every single corporation clamors to say Black Lives Matter and, yay, Pride Month, that Christian nationalism is even close to the top of the list of the things that are threatening America's stability. And let's just remember, and I know people hate when you bring this up. People hate when you bring this up. But it's totally fair game. It's totally fair game to bring this up when you say that one riot is the threat to democracy. But all of these other riots over here are not a threat to democracy. It is not what aboutism to say, well, why? Why is one riot a threat to democracy and the other riots are not a threat to democracy? That's not diminishing the riots that happened on January 6th.

Starting point is 00:25:18 It's simply asking what's the motivation for nodding in approval or at least ignoring the riots that lasted for a month in 2020 and only being laser focused on the riot that happened on January 6th and saying that one is a threat to democracy and one is just fine when objectively the right. riots that happened over the course of more than six months in 2020 in the name of social justice were far more destructive. They were far more destructive and far more deadly. 25 people, at least, 25 people murdered, including children. Sequoria Turner was a little girl in Atlanta who was murdered by someone who was rioting after the death of Rayshard Brooks, an armed person who was shot and killed by the police, little eight-year-old girl murdered by a rioter. Antonio Mays was a 16-year-old that was murdered by a rioter, David Dorn.

Starting point is 00:26:24 These are all happened to be black Americans, by the way. He was a former police captain that was murdered, I believe, in St. Louis by rioters. and there were many other innocent Americans who were killed in these riots. That is not true of January 6th, no matter what Democrats want you to believe. They even included when they were talking about the people who died at the January 6th riot. You may remember that no one actually was killed on the day of the riot, except for Ashley Bessler. She was someone who broke into the Capitol and she was shot by a police officer. There were police officers who very sadly committed suicide after, but they were not killed

Starting point is 00:27:14 on the day of the riot. There was a police officer that was killed in April of 2021. And President Biden, as well as some other Democratic politicians, included him in their statements about January 6th saying that this was a police. officer whose life was lost because of violence at the Capitol. Except the violence that killed this particular officer was perpetrated by a man named Noah Green. He was a 25-year-old black nationalist, a fierce follower of Lewis Farrakhan, and he killed a capital police officer named Billy Evans.

Starting point is 00:28:00 And yet you're actually hearing from the left that this person. or implicitly they're saying that this person died because of January 6th, January 6th violence, which is simply not true. It's not true. And so the effects and the damage done between what happened on January 6th and what happened by left wing at the hands of left wing agitators for more than six months in 2020, it's not even comparable. More people dead because of the riots in 2020, billions of dollars of damage, lost businesses, destroyed communities, arson, looting. And you cannot tell me that this was justified.

Starting point is 00:28:47 You can't tell me that this somehow was motivated by a righteous cause. It wasn't. You're kidding yourself. If you still think that people were cleaning out foot lockers or stealing big screen TVs from best spy or stealing handles of tequila from the liquor store for social and racial justice. Come on. Let's be serious here. And let's talk about the damage that was inflicted on these communities, many of which are poor and are lived in by minority communities who did nothing wrong. That is the definition of injustice.

Starting point is 00:29:25 You are punishing people who did nothing wrong. There was far more damage and a far greater threat to. stability and democracy, by the way, that was demonstrated in these riots that threatened the safety of so many people throughout 2020, a far bigger threat demonstrated in those riots than what we saw on January 6th. They can both be bad, but if we're actually comparing real threats and if we're actually comparing real damage, like it doesn't even come close. And by the way, some of these people were burning American flags in 2020 and saying death to America. They were actually explicitly calling for an end of American systems.

Starting point is 00:30:11 And yet somehow that's righteous and okay and not that bad and you're not allowed to bring that up because that's what aboutism. Really, the people who are saying that, oh, you can't bring that up on January 6th because that's what aboutism and you're trying to downplay it. The reality is they never think that there's a good time to talk about the 2020. 20 rights because it doesn't fit that particular narrative. Furthermore, on this idea that Christian nationalism, right-wing Christian nationalism is the big threat to American democracy. Like, look at the tyranny that is at play today. Look at a country or look at countries in Australia. Look at how they're treating their people. Look at the policies that are forcing people to quarantine. Look at the restrictions against people who chose not to get vaccinated or couldn't get

Starting point is 00:31:08 vaccinated that are preventing them from being able to work, to provide for their families, to go to grocery stores, no matter what you think about the efficacy of the vaccine, which it's an accepted fact at this point that the vaccine is not stopping infection or transmission. Like this is even if you thought that it was good policy that everyone should be forced to be vaccinated for fear of losing their livelihood. It doesn't make any logical sense at this point because the vaccines aren't working to stop infection and transmission. You can look at all of the numbers around the world and that is abundantly clear. Like the data is absolutely out there. You're not even less likely to get infected at this point if you're vaccinated. So if you look at

Starting point is 00:31:50 the threat of totalitarianism who is actually taking away people's right to worship. to gather with their family, to go to school and get an education, to move freely, to access basic services, to be able to go into restaurants. The governments that are inflicting these burdens on people are not conservative governments. The governments that are most seriously hindering people's rights right now and are hindering the spirit of democracy are left-wing governments. They're not conservative governments. So this is all projection. to me, you can say that tenets of Christian nationalism are bad. You can even say that if they became mainstream, that they would be a threat.

Starting point is 00:32:34 Make that argument. That's fine. But to say that that is where the threat of totalitarianism of tyranny comes from, that this is going to be the day that lives in infamy if America falls into a dictatorship. It's absurd. It's sheer projection. The threat of tyranny. incontrovertibly right now comes from the left and there is no question about that it is far more

Starting point is 00:33:02 mainstream it is far more powerful it as an ideology is far more pervasive and so the people who act like they are so brave speaking out about the threat of christian nationalism look i commend you for caring about freedom for caring about liberty for wanting to stand for america and certainly wanting to stand for good theology. The problem is you're wasting too much energy in the wrong direction. Christian nationalism does not have the institutional power and it does not have the popularity to be able to threaten democratic norms in the United States. The threats that we see that are happening right now are without a doubt coming from the left. That is just, That is just a fact. And within the church, definitely, definitely the biggest points of confusion

Starting point is 00:33:59 that the church seems to have right now have to do with a biblical definition of justice versus left-wing social justice, how we should handle hot topics like gender, sex, sexuality, abortion, how bold we should be in speaking the truth and love about these things. it's progressivism that has truly deluded so many Christians and has thrown them into chaos and confusion when it comes to very basic biblical issues about human beings, about the value of human life, about the definition of marriage, what true biblical love sounds like and looks like that is not just endless tolerance of sin and affirmation of people's identities and superficial empathy and virtue signaling. That is what most Christians, I would say,

Starting point is 00:34:54 are confused about right now. It is not, at least not predominantly Christian nationalism. It's just not. Okay, I'm going to answer a couple of the questions that you guys sent me on Instagram. One question that I got is what I think about the Pope's recent statements that people who choose not to have kids and prioritize their pets over kids are selfish. So you guys know, I don't agree with the Pope on a lot. I am Protestant and I believe in the tenets of Protestantism, which means that the Pope, I don't believe, has any authority over Christianity. He is not someone that I would go to for a theological advice.

Starting point is 00:35:39 I know a lot of Catholics happen to believe that as well about this particular Pope. He's a little bit more progressive when it comes to several issues, which is why it was a bit surprising, actually, to hear him say that people who prioritize having pets over kids are selfish and that it's important to have children. But it has been Catholic doctrine for as long as the Catholic Church has existed to really prioritize having children and forming a family. and that's something that I really appreciate about Catholicism, that they really do, at least classically, traditionally have a wonderful and clear theology of the body and the sanctity

Starting point is 00:36:19 of human life. And so the Pope seems to kind of reiterate that here. But of course, you can imagine that he got a lot of pushback. Now, I wrote in my book, You're Not Enough, and that's okay. I wrote about this phenomenon of young people. purposely choosing to remain childless. And so I'm not talking about people who are unmarried, you know, who would like to be married and like to have children one day and who happen

Starting point is 00:36:47 to have a pet. I'm not talking about people who cannot have children, who, again, would love to have children, but they're unable to who have pets. I'm not talking about that. I am talking about people who purposely choose not to have children, and especially Christians, who choose not to have children, and decide that they, you know, want their pets to be their children. Personally, I believe that the people who make that decision,

Starting point is 00:37:14 the reason why they so fiercely love their pets is actually because they are trying to satisfy this biological drive in all or most of us to have offspring and to take care of them. we get to a point in our lives where our bodies, our minds, our hormones are geared toward reproduction and to be able to take care of a baby, a little person, a child. And when that is not satisfied by choice or not, we are going to look to other objects of our affection. So I actually think that the reason why you see not just a love for pets, which I think is great, I love animals and I think pets are awesome.

Starting point is 00:38:01 But an obsession over animals to the point to where you really see a parent-like affection and fidelity to a pet, I really think it is people trying to replace their God-given desire and need and drive for offspring with the love that they have for their pets. So I agree with that aspect of what he is saying. Now, all of that said, I know people who have chosen, I can think of two people right off the top of my head, who have chosen, who are married, who have chosen not to have kids and who have pets and who really love their pets. Maybe they don't love their pets in an unhealthy way, but they love their pets, who are not selfish people. They are wonderful people.

Starting point is 00:38:51 Like they are kind people, they are compassionate people, they are generous people. and they're not selfish. So I cannot say that someone who chooses not to have a child and decides to prioritize having to pet over a child, that they are across the board a selfish person. There are also people who have kids. I mean, we've talked a lot about toxic mommy culture. We talked yesterday or the day before yesterday about the parents who are allowing COVID paranoia to allow them to be terrible parents to separate themselves from their child when their child

Starting point is 00:39:21 is sick. We talked about that mom. We put their kid in the trunk of her car. because he was COVID positive and she didn't want to be exposed to COVID. So there are a lot of selfish people who are parents. And there are a lot of, I think, unselfish people who have pets rather than kids. And so I can't make the same categorical judgment. And I think I did initially say that I agreed with what the Pope said.

Starting point is 00:39:43 But upon some reflection and thinking about that, I just don't think that I can make that judgment across the board. Now, I will say what I have said many times, reiterating. kind of what I already said a couple minutes ago, but if you are married and you can have children, I absolutely think that you should. There is no biblical basis for choosing not to have children if you can have children and if you are married. There simply is not. The desire to have a career instead of children, the desire to travel instead of children, the desire to find yourself and work on yourself and be in shape and keep your body and your appearance looking a certain way instead of

Starting point is 00:40:27 children. None of these choices have a biblical basis. Everywhere we see in scripture talking about children, we see children in pregnancy and child bearing as a blessing, not a curse. So we see the Bible repeatedly tells us that children are a blessing, not a burden. That image bearers of God are a credit to the world, not a debit to the world or to the environment. The Christian doesn't live in such fear of the future, in such fear of the collapse of the world because of climate change or even immorality or tyranny that we refuse to trust in God to populate the earth with his image bears that we can teach. And by God's grace, we'll become kind and wise and bold and courageous, people.

Starting point is 00:41:20 people who love God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength and love their neighbor as themselves who can discern truth from a lie and good from evil. That's what we want. Now more than ever, Christians need to have kids. I understand the fear. I understand the fear of not wanting to raise kids in this backwards crazy, sometimes terrifying world. I really do. But the last thing we need is for Christians to be the ones to say, we're not going to have kids. We're not going to have kids who do know what is good and right and true and live that out. That's the worst thing we can possibly do. God knew exactly what was going to happen in this era when he put us on earth when he did

Starting point is 00:42:06 and when he is going to put our children on earth, when he is going to put them and our grandchildren and our great-grandchildren. We are not here arbitrarily. We are not here accidentally. All of us are here when and where we are for a reason. and that reason is to obey God and to bring glory to him. He will equip your children in the particular way that they need to be equipped to do that. He will equip you to raise them to be equipped to do that.

Starting point is 00:42:33 So I do echo the sentiment of the Pope to have children if you can't have children. Do I think that you are categorically selfish for choosing not to have children? No, because like I said, I know many people who, have made that choice who are wonderful people. But do I encourage you to have children if you can and if you are married? I absolutely do. And just pray about it. Your mind and your heart will can absolutely change the number of messages that I get from you guys. You said that you listen to, you know, me say something like this and you and your husband decided to start trying to have kids and then you message me and tell me that you're pregnant. I love it. Those are some of

Starting point is 00:43:14 my favorite messages to get. All right, guys. Hope you enjoyed that episode today. Thanks so much for listening and for watching. We will be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:43:53 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 547 | The Christian Nationalist Bogeyman

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