Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 55 | Christian Persecution at UC Berkeley

Episode Date: November 15, 2018

We talk with Isabella Chow, student senator at UC Berkeley, who is being maligned for expressing her Christian views in opposition to an LGBTQ resolution. She's an encouragement to all of us to stand strong against anti-Christian bigotry. Copyright CRTV. All rights reserved.

Hey guys, it's Ali. Welcome to CRTV's Relatable. We've got a good show for you today. We've got a really good, interesting conversation. So we are going to talk to Isabella Chow. She is a student at UC Berkeley. Part of the student senate, you might have seen some articles floating around about her on Fox News, on the Federalist, and she is making waves because she did something that is now considered extremely scandalous. she stood up for Christian values in the face of a lot of opposition. So just to give you a little bit of context, at UC Berkeley, there was an alliance. And the alliance is the alliance is called Queer Alliance Resource Center. And this alliance demanded or wanted the student body to vote on this particular resolution

that would symbolically, doesn't actually do anything, but symbolically condemn the Trump administration's decision to define men and women as men and women, you know, in relation to their sex that is assigned to them at birth. You've probably seen a lot of backlash over that. The Trump is, you know, erasing trans people, but that has been completely debunked. That is not the case at all. This is talking about biological sex. So the, the queer Alliance Resource Center wanted this resolution passed the student Senate, of which Isabella is a part, had to vote on this. And this is live streamed. I think this might even be before the student body. And she decided that she wasn't going to cast a vote. And she was going to explain exactly why she's

not going to cast a vote. The political party that she was a part of on campus had released a statement saying, you know, they support the resolution. She felt like it didn't represent her views. So she got up in front of the student Senate and she said why she was not going to vote on this. And she said in a very kind, you can go online and read Isabella Chow's statement. It's on the Fox News.com article. It was very kind, very gentle, very compassionate. But she said, I love these people. I, you know, accept them as friends, but I do not agree with this lifestyle.

I do not agree with the multiple gender identities. And again, I love them, want to be their friend, but I don't agree with them. And what has happened since then? She has received unbelievable, unbelievable hate. they're calling for her resignation from the student senate. She was kicked out of the political party that she's a part of on campus. The name of the political party slips my mind now. Or it's a political organization, but I think they call it a political party.

And this has been like two and a half weeks. And people are harassing her or saying horrible things to her. Things like, you know, FEO, go to hell, all of these terrible things simply because she stood up for what she believes in. So we are going to talk to her. We're going to get her perspective and hear a little bit more about what's going on. But first, before we do that, I just want to remind you that you're not sleeping as well as you could. You're just not. I don't know why you're even kidding yourself. You're waking up every day and you've got like a crick in your neck and you're like, gosh, why can't I sleep more than six hours every night? And I can tell you why? Because now I'm a

sleep expert. After two weeks of talking about bolster sleep, I'm a sleep expert. And it's because you don't have a bolster sleep pillow like I do. You have like a million feather pillows that you stack up and you're like the princess and the pee. You still can't get comfortable. And you are frustrated with yourself every single night. And I'm just telling you that you should end your misery. You don't need to do that to yourself anymore. You just need to get a bolster sleep pillow. It keeps its shape all night. It stays cool all night. It's so comfortable. It's the only pillow I use. I feel like I could sleep for so many hours. I feel so awesome when I wake up in the morning and I feel extremely well-rested. And the only reason I'm not sleeping all day is because I have to record this podcast. So thanks a

lot, guys. If not, I would still, I would sleep all day because I love my bolster sleep pillow. But you could get a mattress. You could get an adjustable bed. And if you do that, if you decide to get one of those things and you go to bolster sleep.com and you use promo code Alley, you can get $100 off one of those things. And $100 is a lot of money. I don't care who you are. It's a lot of money. So you should definitely do that. Plus, you're helping people in Haiti. They train people to be able to support themselves by doing practical trades. So it's a win-win. So go to bolterisleaf.com, use promo code Alley. You're not going to regret it. You can thank me later. Now that we've covered that, we are going to talk to our friend Isabella.

Isabella, thank you so much for joining me. Hello. Thank you so much for having me here. Yeah. So tell me, tell me what exactly happened. I've read a few of the articles, but I want to hear it from your perspective. Yeah, essentially what happened was it started when I brought up these two bills at caucus with my political party. And caucus is a time where we, you know, discuss bills and we're very clear that we don't block vote as a party, but we allow each senator to have, you know, freedom to vote however they want. But we do want to, you know, discuss bills with each other. And so I said, you know, as a Christian, as a senator who campaigned to, you know, get votes mainly from the Christian community here at Berkeley,

I'm not sure if I can fully support this bill that asks me to promote the LGBTQ identity and lifestyle. People, I expected a little bit of hesitation and opposition, but not to the extent where, you know, what actually happened was after several days of meetings, they told me you either fully promote this bill and you fully promote the LGBTQ identity or you're out. And so obviously, you know, before God and before my community, I couldn't, I couldn't in good conscience vote for the bill.

And so I got ousted from my political party. After I abstained and made a statement regarding my abstention, my political party released a statement disaffiliating with me. And another senator who sponsored the bill that I abstained from released her own statement, essentially calling me a homophobic and transphobic senator. Okay. So tell me, tell me exactly, for those of us who don't know, tell me what this bill was, how it was presented and why exactly you had to vote on it. Yes. So the main bill in question was largely symbolic. It opposed Trump's Title IX proposed changes, proposed changes to Title IX. And specifically, the portion where he proposes to define one's gender as one's biological sex. Right. The bill, the symbolic bill, largely advocated for freedom from discrimination and harassment for

LGBTIQA individuals, which I'm totally fine with. But at the end of the bill, the action items were to fully promote the Queer Alliance Resource Center here on campus and the Gender Equity Resource Center, among other organizations. And the primary purpose of these organizations is to promote the LGBTQ identity and lifestyle. Okay. Gotcha. So you as a student senator, you were called on to vote on this. And when you had to vote, were you in front of the student body?

Were you in front of the student government? Or what was the context? Yes. This was during our weekly Senate meetings, which are live streamed and open to the public. Okay. And so did everyone get up and make a statement about how they were going to vote? Or did you just decide, okay, I just got to do this. This is on my conscience.

Yes. So a lot of people have asked me, you know, why didn't you just vote? vote and not said anything. The reason why I chose to make a statement because you don't have to. I chose to make a statement because I knew that my political party, student actions, press release was coming out the moment the vote was over. And in that press release, they, you know, I didn't feel like they completely represented my views accurately. Right. Right. So I just make a statement, yeah. So student actions was part of the political party that you were a part of on campus. They released the press release and you said,

okay, well, this is not exactly what I think about this bill. So I'm going to stand up and I'm just going to represent myself and maybe the rest of the Christian community about this. And I read your statement. And basically what you said, of course, I'm coming from a Christian perspective and I just agree with everything you say. But even so, even if I disagreed with you, you started out by saying, I'm against harassment. I'm against discrimination.

I see you. You're valid. I love you. Jesus loves you. And then you had one parent. I think that said, I just don't agree with this. I don't agree with, you know, the LGBTQ lifestyle. I don't believe it's best for you.

I do believe that, you know, God made a man and a woman that sex is supposed to be between a man and a woman in marriage. And then you ended again with, I still love you. You know, I'm still your friend. I still see you. And yet the vitriol that you're receiving, it's like you got up there and said that, you know, everyone who isn't like you is a. terrible, horrible person that's burning in hell.

And that's not at all what you did. Were you surprised? I was. I mean, I expected backlash, but not to the extent where every single student on campus knows about it and is talking about it. Right. And much less like the entire country, you know, because this has become a national story, which I think is great because you are getting, you know, I'm sure you're

getting some support from people who do agree with you. Now, you're probably getting a national story. a lot of hate too. That's just common in the whole Christian world, especially when it comes to views of sexuality. But how are you dealing with all of this? I mean, it's got to be kind of overwhelming. It was definitely overwhelming the first two weeks because, you know, obviously now that the story has gone national, I've received, you know, countless emails and messages of support, which really have carried me. But then the first two weeks, I relied so heavily on the Christian community here. Yes.

You know, just honestly asking them for encouragement and prayers and being very open and honest about what was going on and what I was facing. How did you get the strength and bravery to go up there and say that? Because, gosh, there's a lot of people who think the same way you do, probably a good number of people even on UC Berkeley's campus who just wouldn't have said anything. Why did you feel like I can't just be quiet about this? Yes. And this ties back to the reason why I chose to run. for Senate last semester. What I told the Christian community was, you know, in such a liberal campus, especially in student government, there rarely is a voice that speaks out for values that the Christian community upholds and what we believe to be the truth. And so what I told them is, if we don't have a senator in the ASUC representing the Christian values, then who else will be

there to speak the truth? Right. And so when the time came for me to make the decision, of course, it was absolutely hard. Like, um, yeah, some suggested like, why don't you just walk out of the room when we vote and just come back in so that, you know, you're not complicit in voting and your name is not on the roster, but you don't have to say anything. You don't have to deal with, you know, all this mess. But I asked myself, like, was I elected to a position to remain silent? And the answer was no. Wow. Wow. That's really amazing. Have you talked to your parents at all about this? I mean, what are they thinking? It's a lot for them to go through. Last week and last week when we had the Senate meeting where the protesters came and essentially yelled at me in the

mic for three hours, they were there sitting and watching all of it. And I can't imagine how hard it must be for them. Yeah. Yeah, because for me, you know, sitting there, I was expecting it and I'd already been going through it for, you know, a couple weeks at that point. But for my parents to watch me go through that. It was hard. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure they feel extremely defensive of you and they want to protect you. Gosh, I bet that's hard.

What do you do from here? What does it look like going forward for you? Yeah. I think what's difficult for me is that, you know, even with the amazing response I've received across the country and even across a globe, on a day-to-day basis, I still have to sit next to classmates who, were the same classmates that yelled at me last week. Yeah.

And they're just cursing at you, right? Just like saying these horrible things about you. I read that someone said that, you know, they're going to see you in hell or something. Yeah. Yeah. It's difficult, you know, to be treated that way and to not be respected for a minority view. Because the problem is the LGBTQ community here has a difficult time reconciling how I can say I love you and yet, you know, not fully support what they consider to be a fundamental

part of their identities, right? Right. And so instead of taking my statements at face value, they're taking my statements about what I believe and twisting that to mean I'm homophobic and I'm transphobic. And so it's just a difficulty for them to fully understand where I'm coming from as a Christian. Right. Instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt or understanding. I mean, yeah. Right. Which, of course, is, you know, a little bit ironic, a little bit hypocritical that they're demanding

absolute tolerance and inclusion from you, even though you don't disagree with, you know, their way of life. But they are not willing to give you the same tolerance and inclusion that they are demanding that you give them. They are choosing to exclude you because you don't have a lifestyle that they agree with. So what I see a lot of times, and this is not really a generalization, but a lot of times I see this kind of idea among progressives that, yes, we want freedom or we want the appearance of tolerance and inclusion until you disagree with us. And then once you disagree with us, then you're not just wrong, but you're a horrible person and we're going to harass you and we're going to break you until you apologize. I can't imagine having to deal with that like you are on an every.

day basis. So what is your reaction been in the face of all of that? Yes. A lot of what I've been reminded of since last week is to stand by my statement from, you know, October 31st. Yes. And that doesn't just include the statements about what I believe, but my statements about loving and accepting everyone. Even if I'm not treated and given the same, treated with and given the same understanding and respect, I will still stand by my words to accept everyone. and also to love unconditionally, right, the way that Jesus did. Exactly. I was about to say that's exactly what Christ did.

He was maligned. He was persecuted. And he actually tells us, he promises us that in this world, we will have trouble, but take heart of overcome the world. He says that we will be persecuted. And I'm not saying necessarily the things that you're going through or the things that I go through necessarily as a conservative as a Christian or the same exact thing is what Jesus went there.

I'm not saying that. But it is a form of persecution. And I just want to take a second to commend you for standing firm in the face of that because it is not easy. I spoke for one hour at UC Berkeley. I spoke to a class. And that was one of the hardest speeches that I've ever given just because the vitriol and the reaction and the yelling that I got. That was one hour of my life. And I was emotionally spent after that. So for you, standing strong in the midst of all of that and choosing to love people and choosing not to be bitter or resentful, but like you said, choosing to accept people the way that Christ accepts us when we're imperfect.

It's really amazing. And I just want to encourage you that your story and what you're doing is going to strengthen thousands and thousands of people that you will never meet. So even if right now this seems like, wow, this really sucks, which it does suck. Just know that it's doing something, not just in your life, but also in the lives of so many other students who feel the same way you do. I would love to hear just as a final thing, if you could give a little bit of encouragement or just a piece of advice to someone who might be going through something similar or who is struggling to stand up for their own views. Yes. I think my biggest piece of advice would be to stay grounded in your faith and to stay grounded

in your community. The reason why I was, you know, able to say my statement with absolute conviction and absolute, you know, gentleness and respect was because even before I ran for Senate, I talked to many mentors about, you know, the intersection of faith and the LGBT identity. And, you know, I did a very thorough survey of theologians from both sides of the aisle, affirming and non-affirming. And, you know, to have that theological and to have have that faith grounding was really what kept me through all of this. And furthermore, to have that grounding in community where, you know, my fellowship was praying for me right before I went into the Senate chambers. And my staff was coming with me and, you know, just being there with me the whole time.

Like, I wouldn't have made it this far without them and without their prayers. Yeah. So you would encourage people to stay grounded in the word because you're right. Without that, everything in our head is just an idea that can be contradicted by anyone. But if it's grounded in the word of God, then we know that it's true. And then like you said, being surrounded by community and the power of prayer or something right now that is so mocked by people as useless, you and I know, and especially you right now, really know the absolute and tangible consequences of being prayed for. So that's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing this. And I will be praying for you too. And I always am praying also just for college students in the same situation because I know it feels like a battlefield,

but especially for you. So thank you so much. Is there any other information or anything else you would like to tell the audience before you go? My final takeaway would relate to what has really been in my heart the past two and a half weeks. I've really been praying throughout all this that, you know, one, the church would continue to dialogue and even dialogue more about the intersection of faith in the LGBTQ community. What does it mean to, you know, not necessarily agree 100% theologically and practically, but to talk about our differences, to talk about our beliefs so that, you know, we are better equipped to serve, you know, the LGBTQ community. Right. And two, what does it look like for the church to manifest the love and the truth of Jesus to this community?

And, you know, I don't have answers for that, right? As somebody who, you know, does identify as heterosexual and straight, I don't necessarily empathize with what, you know, the community goes through on, you know, a 100% basis. But I can rely on brothers and sisters who identifies LGBTQ and are non-affirming or brothers and sisters who are affirming. And ask them, like, what do you believe? Like, how does this affect you? And really, how can we serve this community better? Right. And I absolutely agree with you that the church traditionally has kind of failed. and in that realm. And there's a lot of slack that we can pick up.

And I think that you're doing a great job. So thank you so much for that message. And thank you for joining me. Thank you. So I thought that that was an extremely, gosh, it was, well, it was a hard conversation because it was hard for me to listen to this young woman who is obviously dealing with so much persecution, so much discomfort, more than probably a lot of us have experienced. I don't know about your college experience or just what your life has been like.

I don't want to assume that you've never had persecution. I personally have never been in the face of something like that where I am sitting in it, walking in it on a daily basis. That's a lot. And she is strong and she is confident in the midst of that. And I'm telling you, I know that you guys know this who are Christians. That does not come from yourself. You cannot withstand that kind of hate.

that kind of vitriol, that kind of absolute nastiness, the maligning of your character when you know you've done nothing wrong unless you have Christ. There is something deeper that anchors you. She talked about staying grounded, being with a Christ-like community, people praying for you, staying in the Word. And gosh, that's so true, you have to be surrounded by truth. Every time in my own life or in my friend's life where I've seen people veer off of the Christ-like path or pursue something that they know is not Christ-like, it's because they are lacking those two things. They don't have people that are holding them accountable and praying for them, and they're not reading the word. We don't veer towards truth. We don't veer towards strength. We don't veer towards

holiness and confidence in the way, you know, in the holiness and the confidence that Isabella is portraying right now. We don't veer towards that. That is deliberate. It's a power of the Holy Spirit. it. And I just commend her. I think it's amazing what she's doing. If you are able to reach out to her, I don't know, via Facebook or however, she's able to get communication, encourage her, let her know that you're praying for her. We need more people like Isabella. And I know it's hard. Whenever I speak on college campuses, I always, you know, I tell people, yes, of course it's good to just speak up for what you believe in. Of course it's good. Of course, it's good to be the person who brings the complaint about, you know, anti-Christian, anti-conservative discrimination to the administration.

But I always warn people, you know, pick your battles. If you got to get into med school, and that's the plan for your life, and you got to be a little bit quieter about your political and religious beliefs, that I'm not saying you should deny what you believe. I'm not saying you should be scared. I'm not saying that you should lie by any means, but you might have to pick your battles and be a little bit more gentle. Of course, live your life in a way that is in accordance with Christ, but you know, you might not have, you might not be able to confront your teacher as, you know, loudly as you want to. I say pick, pick your battles and be wise about that. But the truth, the fact of the matter is, is if we all sit up the way that Isabella stands up,

we were willing to sacrifice everything. We talk about, you know, Nike says that Kaepernick sacrifices everything. No, not really. Isabella did, though. She sacrificed everything. Now, I mean, she's still going to school. She still has her position in the students in it, but I'm sure all of that is pretty precarious right now because she stood up for what she believes in. And it's really amazing. And it's so, it's like clockwork, the leftist reaction to ideas that they don't like, particularly Christian ideas. They don't realize they're the bigots. Like, they don't realize that they're the hateful ones. They don't realize they're the exclusive ones. At least Isabella stood up and said, I still love you. I still accept you. I just don't agree with you.

they say, I don't agree with you, and you're a horrible person who's going to burn in hell. I don't know any Christ following Christian who says that to someone. And yet these people who call us bigots and who call us the wrong ones, us the immoral ones, they, they are tolerant, they are inclusive, they're on the right side of history. I mean, it really is so predictable at this point. It's a joke, the intolerant, tolerant left. And I think they kind of realized that too. I've noticed that they've dropped the whole tolerant thing.

And I'm just wondering when eventually they're just going to come out and say, look, look, let's be honest here. If you don't agree with us, we're going to try to ruin your life. Look, we don't really care about inclusion. We don't care about ideological diversity. We don't care about religious diversity. We care that you ascribe to progressivism and nothing else. And if you do not, bow down at the altar of progressivism, at the altar of far leftism,

at the altar of moral relativism, then we will. will do whatever we can to take you down. I wonder when they're just going to come out and say that. Instead of, you know, operating under the auspices of, oh, we're loving, we're kind, we just want unity and peace. No, you don't. No, you don't. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You know, who wants unity and peace Christians do? And that doesn't mean we're going to agree with everything that you do. That doesn't mean that we like your lifestyle. we might call out the sin, but we're still going to love you and serve you. And we're going to still show you the love of Christ because we know that that's what Christ did for us when he died on the cross when we didn't deserve it. That while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. For a good person, someone might die, but for a bad person, no, but Christ did. And we can emulate that kind of sacrifice and that kind of love to a fallen world. We're not going to see

that love and that acceptance from the other side. And we can talk about the irony and the hypocrisy of that all we want to, but from a biblical perspective, we know that that's, we know that's going to happen. That honestly, we, we cannot expect them to love us in the same way that we love them. And I love talking about the hypocrisy of it. I love calling them out for that. But honestly, at the end of the day, there's somewhat peace, I guess. Now, it's a little bit troubling, but somewhat peace in knowing that God predicted this,

like, that we always knew that this was going to happen, that we are going to be seen as fools in the eyes of the world that they are going to be seen as wise, even though we listen to the things that they say, we look at the things that we do and we say, wow, that is so backwards. How could someone think that way? How could someone live that way? How could they be so far from the truth and think that they're right? That's what happens when the eyes of your heart are darkened or when they're blinded.

That's what happens when you are lost. That's what happens when you don't have the wisdom of Christ. Not always. There are people that are Christians who still have godly, I say, and quotes, but godly kind of biblical wisdom. They were raised that way or they have a certain kind of ideology that aligns with that. All truth is God's truth. So you can still believe in truth without actually being a Christian.

Now, you can't believe in ultimate truth and you can't be ultimately fulfilled. But of course, they are very wise people who don't call themselves Christians. But everything that is true also aligns with the Bible, if that makes sense. I can explain that better later. But we shouldn't be surprised. We were told that this is how it's going to be. that this is what's going to happen. And what are we called to do in the midst of it?

It's exactly what we talked about on Tuesday. Stand up for truth and love your neighbor. And I actually think that Isabella is a perfect example of those two things. And she challenged me. She challenged me to not be ashamed to not sugarcoat. Now you might be thinking, oh, you know, you never sugarcoat what you say. Well, yeah, in front of you guys, most of you guys agree with me. But gosh, I don't know if I was that bold in college.

And we'd all like to think that if we are faced with that kind of opposition that we would stand up and be strong. But I don't know if that's true, especially if we're not prepared. If we are not rooted in God's word, thank God for people like Isabella. I pray that more of us are like that, that we are bold, that we're not ashamed of the gospel, that we're not ashamed of God's word. We will be justified in the end, probably not in this life. It's just going to get harder. What we see is that people on the left, they operate under the, they operate. under the guise of freedom and the guise of acceptance and the guise of tolerance, but really what

they mean is that they demand everything. And the reason, here it is, guys, here it is. The reason why being a Christ following, a true Christ following Christian and being a full-blown progressive in the brand that they are, I'm not just talking about having some, you know, progressive views or believe it in some progressive policies, but being full on, this is my identity, progressive. And being a Christ following biblical Christian, you cannot be those at the same time because both, both demand everything. Both demand that you deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow that way of life. Both ask everything of you. Christ doesn't ask a little bit. He doesn't ask some of us. He asks for all of us. He demands it. He takes all of us and he

changes it and he uses it for his purpose. He doesn't say, okay, give me this part of you and you can keep that part. He says, no, I take everything. Full-blown progressivism does too. It says, this is your new identity. This is who you are now. You operate in a way that coincides with this or else you're wrong. The difference is, the difference is full-blown progressivism is wrong and it is hateful. Christianity is loving and kind and serves and produces good. And it sheds light. Full-blown progressivism does not. And you could say that about all kinds of dark ideologies, not just full-blown

progressivism, but both demand all of you. That is why they cannot accept Isabella. Believing in Christina, she's not going to be able to fully coincide and operate or cooperate with people who are like that. Now, she's going to love them. She's going to continue to reach out to them. But they will never. They will never fully be able to get along.

unless one of those people, full-blown progressives, steps into the light and says, you know what? You're right, which can absolutely happen. The Bible tells us that God's kindness leads us to repentance, not God's wrath, though that exists, not God's judgment, though that exists, but God's kindness leads us to repentance. And we as the ambassadors of Christ, we show that kindness that leads to repentance. And that's exactly what Isabella is doing. I'm proud of her, not that she needs me to be proud of her, not that much older than her,

but I'm proud of her. And I'm proud of all of you guys who stand up in the face of all of that. If you have any stories that are similar, please share them with me. I would love to hear them. I get a lot of encouragement from you guys. Okay, one thought or one thing to finish this out.

There's always so much I want to talk about at the end and I don't have time. But this has nothing to do with what we were talking about. I just want to just mention one thing. And I'll go more into this possibly next week. Michael Avanotti. Michael Avanotti, you remember? creepy, creepy porn lawyer.

That guy represented Stormy Daniels. Yeah, talking about running for president. He was on the believe all women train. Talked about how he's such a defender of women. He's such a stand-up. Great guy. Well, he just got arrested yesterday for domestic abuse against his ex-wife. Man.

And, you know, the ironic thing, the further ironic thing about this is that he also just accused completely, as far as I know, completely baselessly accused Tucker Carlson of assaulting someone in a bar. And he showed the video and it didn't show that. So it's just, it's just so rich. It's just so rich. Michael Avinati is really, you know, I pray that he comes to know Christ. I really do. He needs Jesus in his life. But as of right now, just as all of us are apart from Christ, he's the scum of the earth. He is a scum of the earth. If God can save Michael Avinati, who he can do anything. And we know that he can. So let's pray for And let's pray for his poor wife.

But I just wanted to update y'all on that. The irony of all of this continues. Those people who say believe all women, they never really mean it when those people or when those women don't agree with them. I just wanted to leave you on that note. Okay, guys, I'll see you next week.