Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 618 | Kirk Cameron on Homeschooling & Raising Godly Kids

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Tuesday back in the studio today. This episode, as all episodes, is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers, American Meat delivered right to your front door. Go to Good Ranchers.com for a discount.

Starting point is 00:00:53 That's goodranchers.com slash alley. All right, guys, we've got an awesome episode for you today. I am super excited to get to talk to Kirk Cameron. So we've met a few times before I have been on his podcast and then I think his show on TVN recently. So finally I'm getting him on Relatable. And we are going to talk about a few things. We're going to talk mostly about the homeschool awakening. That is his movie that is coming out that is produced by Cam Fam Studios.

Starting point is 00:01:35 that is his production company as well as TBN. It will be in select movie theater. So we're going to talk to him about homeschooling, why he feels like there is a homeschool awakening happening and just some encouragement to you who you're considering homeschooling or you're considering getting your kids out of public school at least or you're in the middle of homeschooling. And you just need some encouragement.

Starting point is 00:01:57 This is going to be especially educational and encouraging for moms of young ones. And so I'm super excited for. you to hear our conversation, which I just know is going to be so edifying for you. Before we get into the conversation, I just kind of want to set it up and give us some context about why we're even talking about homeschooling. Unfortunately, just like many things, it has become a political topic. It has been something that a lot of activists on the left, a lot of so-called journalists on the left, have tried to deride in recent years, especially since the percentage of families who are homeschooling have gone up.

Starting point is 00:02:40 In 2020, the percentage of families homeschooling doubled from what it was in 2019. Of course, that's not surprising considering the disruptions to education that unfortunately happened across the country. Some kids were forced into remote learning. But this number, according to Gallup, doesn't include kids who are just remote learning from home. This includes kids only who were not enrolled in any. kind of formal education or any kind of public or private or charter school, but we're actually being educated at home. That number went from 5% to 10%. And, you know, I was actually

Starting point is 00:03:18 surprised when I was looking at this Gallup study. The question was, what type of school will you ask K through 12 students attend? Will you, well, your oldest child, so oldest child, attend public, private, parochial charter school, either in person or remotely, or will they homeschool this year? By homeschool, we mean not enrolled in a formal school, but taught at home. So 76% in 2020 said that they were going to send their kid to public school. That is down from 83% in 2019, went from 5% in 2019 to 10% in 2020 of homeschooling. And that is actually what surprised me was the super high number of public schoolers, higher than I imagined because the private school percentage is really low. The charter school

Starting point is 00:04:07 percentage is really low. The parochial school percentage is really low. Only 2% of kids go to a parochial school, only at least the oldest kids. That's what these parents were asked about. Charter school, 5% private school, only 6%. So homeschooling is actually more popular, or at least it was in 2020 than charter school and parochial school. So it seems like there is a growing popularity in homeschool. And I know that's true for a lot of you, just anecdotally speaking to members of my audience who thought a couple years ago that you would never homeschool.

Starting point is 00:04:44 You just feel like you're not built for it. It's not something that you want to do or maybe you like your work and you don't feel like you have time to also homeschool your kids. But now you've done it. You decided to dive in and you realize that there really is a lot more support out there than you realize that you don't have to do everything on your own and that you're able to make memories with your child and spend quality time with them that you

Starting point is 00:05:07 didn't realize that you were missing before. I've talked to so many of you that that is the case for and I just love, I love hearing it. I have never personally, and I'm sure this person's out there somewhere. I've never heard from a mom who says that they regretted homeschooling their kid or pulling their kid out of public school or even private school and homeschooling their kid. I have talked to many parents who now looking back say, you know what, I wish I would have at least paid more attention to what my kid was learning. I wish I would have been more involved. I wish I would have homeschooled my kid or made sure that they got a Christian education. Hom schooling, a lot of people think that there's a big financial inhibition to homeschooling.

Starting point is 00:05:49 It actually is an alternative for a lot of families who can't afford private Christian school because homeschooling can be so affordable. We're going to talk a little bit more about that today with Kurt Cameron. But as I mentioned a couple minutes ago, this is something homeschooling is something that is unfortunately under attack. And in a lot of ways, it has been forever. And the reason for that is because predominantly the families who homeschool are Christian conservatives.

Starting point is 00:06:18 They are largely evangelical. Not always. There's a big portion of the Mormon population. that homeschools, there are Catholic homeschoolers, there are, of course, Jewish homeschoolers. There are homeschoolers of all different kinds of backgrounds, but they tend to be conservative evangelicals. And as we know, as we've talked about many times, conservative evangelicals are public enemy number one because they tend to be the most Republican, they tend to be the most anti-abortion. They really stand against everything that progressivism,

Starting point is 00:06:54 thinks that the country should be. Of course, I believe that's a good thing. Progressives think it's a bad thing. Let me just, before we get into the conversation, tell you what MSNBC is saying, not just about homeschooling, but about Kirk Cameron and his movie specifically. So this Anthea Butler, she's an MSNBC opinion columnist,

Starting point is 00:07:19 she says that she quotes Kurt Cameron saying, public education has become public enemy number one. Kurt Cameron O'Pines and a promotion for the homeschool awakening. And then she goes on to talk about that fundamentalists, this of course is like the new derogatory label for all Christians who are not pro-LGB and progressive. She says that fundamentalist and other religious conservatives have fought against public education since the U.S. Supreme Court's 1954 decision in Brown v. Board of Education. So, of course, the implication there is that homeschooling and anti-public education is actually racist. The prospect of

Starting point is 00:08:02 integrated schools led to the creation of many segregation academies. Private schools designed to keep African-American children and undesirable immigrant groups away from white children. Now, that is somewhat true, but that is not true of the majority, even close. in the majority of private schools. There were private schools that were created to try to perpetuate some form of segregation. But here's also the irony is that the public education system was actually created to indoctrinate and conform immigrant children to Americanism, to American patriotism, to try to make them more patriotic and more American to try to conform them and make them more uniform.

Starting point is 00:08:45 And that was, they also tried to make Catholic students less Catholic. There was a very strict ideology, conformed ideology that public school was trying to ensure its students adhered to. So it's always been about indoctrination and conformity to some degree. And so it's interesting that she is now advocating for public school as apparently like the anti-racist pro-immigrant institution. That is not at all true. She, of course, goes on to say that this fundamentalist Christian curriculum that homeschool is based on is extremely dangerous, that it is scary for society. and that the segregation academies that started in the 1960s are still around. This racism is taking the form of school vouchers,

Starting point is 00:09:44 trying to dismantle the U.S. Department of Education, which, yes, I am for dismantling the U.S. Department of Education. She brings in Betsy DeVos because of this. And then she makes a stunning point, which there's just, there's no boundaries for these people. She mentions the fact that professional educators, it's always the experts to these people and they never have to name them or cite them. The other professional educators have issued dire warnings about increased potential for child abuse. Do you know the prevalence of child abuse inside the public school system?

Starting point is 00:10:24 Like you understand that that is unfortunately a hotbed of different kinds of sexual abuse, different kinds of exploitation of children. Now, I'm not saying that there isn't a problem of child abuse at homes, of course. And yes, public school teachers, teachers are supposed to be in most states, mandatory reporters if they see anything that looks suspicious. But unfortunately, the system is very corrupt. And unfortunately, the public school system is not known for the most part, in general, for protecting children. I'm not saying that there aren't wonderful teachers and principals and administrators out there that are doing their very best to protect children. But unfortunately, unfortunately, the public school system is also known for its abuse and neglect of children,

Starting point is 00:11:13 not just physical abuse, but also emotional abuse. So again, public school is not the beautiful, perfect alternative to homeschooling that she is bringing up. Of course, she derides the homeschooling documentary that Kirk Cameron is putting out as, you know, a culture, a culture war documentary talking about critical race theory, LGBTQ issues. She brings up Florida's don't say gay law. Then she says to conclude homeschooling may have greater appeal now because of these debates and the desire for parents to play a big part in their children's educational life. But it may also arise out of pandemic concerns. But parents unfamiliar with. the existing networks of homeschooling run the danger of being drawn into Christian, conservative networks and theocratic teaching. Camerans says that people choosing homeschooling are having an awakening, but the public needs to awaken to the reality that public schools may disappear if people with his extreme beliefs have their way. Wow, everyone, you should be very, very afraid. Well, this very scary figure, Kurt Cameron, talking about this awakening of

Starting point is 00:12:31 homeschooling is here today to try to dispel any of these fear-mongering myths and to make sure that we know about the benefits of homeschooling. It's to talk about this awakening that he is saying is happening. And he needs our support and encouragement, of course, because obviously he is under attack. Before we get into that conversation, you'll hear from our first sponsor. Then we will welcome our friend, Kurt Cameron. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase

Starting point is 00:13:18 narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Kirk, thanks so much for joining us. So as I was telling you, I just read that MSNBC article.

Starting point is 00:13:48 You said about 100 people sent it to you. And of course, the accusations in it, not just about you. but about homeschooling in general, about fundamentalism, even trying to tie it in with racism. Crazy. What was your response? What were your thoughts when you first read that article? Well, number one, it made me think, wow, we must be right over the target. Right. When you begin to speak of the sacred cow that is just something that some want to protect at all costs, you know that you're over the target when people start shrieking in how.

Starting point is 00:14:24 I also laughed at some of the connections and the dots that were, that were connected. Somehow, this is about racism. It's amazing how you can make everything about racism when you want to. But the idea that millions of American parents who love God, who love this country, are somehow anti-education because they're calling out the immoral nonsense that is being pumped through much of the public education system is like saying that, that we're anti-human because we hate cancer. That's just silly.

Starting point is 00:15:00 People who are rotting the minds and the souls of American children are not actually educating them. They're actually grooming them more towards sexual chaos and the progressive left than they are really teaching them about the world and how it works. And so what I want to do is provide parents, with hope and with options to support them in their goals to raise their kids to be the kind of human beings they want them to be.

Starting point is 00:15:33 Well, it certainly seems in the past couple of years that more parents have recognized that public education and even in some cases, private education, isn't serving their children, how they want their children to be served, whether it is, you know, taking time away from science class to try to indoctrinate them with some kind of so-called. called inclusive curriculum about gender and sexual identity. That's something that is happening in several areas, as many moms have attested to, or whether it is this kind of racially divisive education and curriculum that a lot of parents or a lot of kids have been subject to parents in large numbers are really just dissatisfied

Starting point is 00:16:17 with the kind of formal classroom education that their kids are receiving, especially in light of the disruptions that public education saw because of COVID restrictions over the past couple of years. So talk a little bit more about what you've seen as far as this awakening goes of parents who have kind of recognized some of the problems that I just highlighted. Well, it's amazing, this phenomenon that's taking place in America. There is an awakening to educational options. And this was really brought on, as you said, Ali, by the pandemic. And all of a sudden, parents had light shed on what their kids were learning in schools, particularly public schools. So the kids are coming home. They're doing their classes online. And parents see and they're not happy with what their kids are

Starting point is 00:17:09 being taught, undermining so much of what they want them to teach. And so they said, well, we've got to look for other options. And this awakening toward homeschooling, an option that provides parents with so much more freedom and flexibility to be able to really tailor their children's educational experience toward their strengths and learning styles. It allows them to flourish as a family. Many families, even when they could go back to their normal schools, decided to keep their kids in this home-based system because their family was flourishing so much. We interviewed one family who actually has a special needs daughter. And when they took their daughter to school,

Starting point is 00:17:58 there was a vote that took place on how their child would be educated, what types of classes she would take, who she would be educated together with. And the parents got a vote, the principal got a vote, the teacher got a vote, and the special ed teacher got a vote.

Starting point is 00:18:13 And the parents were outnumbered. And they were told that they're not special ed teachers, and they shouldn't be making the decisions about the education of their kids. And what they learned was they don't have to be special ed teachers. They just have to know how to raise their daughter. And they are flourishing. They are happy. They are successful. And their daughter is doing amazing. Yeah. You know, I've seen several stories recently, especially when it comes to the issue of so-called gender identity of schools really kind of

Starting point is 00:18:48 going behind the parents back and not just teaching their kids things that parents may not want their kids to learn, especially without their informed consent or their presence, but also actually giving these kids new identities, new pronouns, new names without their parents' knowledge. That can have really dire consequences. And this really goes back, I think, to a worldview difference between the left and the right Christians and non-Christians when it comes to education. And that is, who is really in charge of your child? Like, who is really responsible for kids? Is it really this whole mentality that the whole village is responsible for a child?

Starting point is 00:19:30 Or did God give children to their parents to be the primary caretakers and disciples and educators and stewards of their children? There is a sharp difference between what it seems like the secular progressives think about when it comes to responsibility for children's minds and what Christians think about when it comes to shape in a child's mind, right? Absolutely. Allie, you explain that so well. And if we study history, we understand.

Starting point is 00:20:03 And if we look behind the curtain of progressive education, and even if we're talking about Christian education, whoever has control of the hearts and minds of the children will determine the future. Everybody understands that because these are the little humans who will be the leaders in the next generation. And they can be disciples for good, which is what we want, to love God, to love His Word, to love the Judeo-Christian moral standard that causes individuals and marriages and families and churches and nations to flourish. Or you can use the educational system for evil like dictates. and authoritarian governments have done in the past. So parents, in my view, have been given the sacred responsibility to support their children,

Starting point is 00:20:59 encourage their children, train up their children, and teach them what is good and beautiful and true. The first Department of Education is the family. And no one has the right to take that away from moms and dads. Yeah. You know, I talk about the importance of making sure that we are involved in our kids' education and just the value that I got from my parents ensuring that I had a Christian education growing up. I wasn't homeschooled. There are so many benefits to homeschooling, but I am thankful that I got a biblical education. I really think that it just set me up well and gave me a really good foundation.

Starting point is 00:21:40 And so I talk about that a lot. One contention that I get from parents who, of course, love. their children in the same way that we do, but they have their kids in public school and they say, well, you know, I agree. I don't think public school is maybe the best for my kid, but I want my kid to be kind of like a missionary at public school or I want my kid to be salt and light. And what happens, if you take all of the Christian kids away from public school, then won't that just be bad for the kids that remain there? I have my own problems with that argument. But kind of what would you say to parents who raise that concern? Well, first I was. First of all, I would say, well, good for you that you're not just concerned about your kids,

Starting point is 00:22:20 but the kids who are trapped in a system that is filled with darkness and they need some light. And you're hoping that your child could be that be that light. Unfortunately, the system is set up for your children to be under the authority and the instruction of teachers who are working for a system that is going against what you believe. So that, I would say, would be the rare exception to place a child in a system like that during their adolescent years, during their developmental stage. We don't send children out onto the battlefield when they're fighting physical wars. And one pastor said very wisely, if we send our children to Rome to be educated, we shouldn't be surprised if they come back Romans. Yes.

Starting point is 00:23:10 Voddy Bakum. And a lot of people will recognize. that quote. We've had him on the show a couple times. And yes, we, we love that quote as well. Yeah, that's right. So, again, we hear in the Word of God, train up your children in the way that they should go. This is, this goes back thousands of years. Teach these things diligently to your children when they rise up in the morning, when they walk along the way, when they're at soccer practice, when you're at the grocery store, and when you put them down for bed at night. If we if we sub out parenting and discipleship to a secular progressive government system for eight hours a day,

Starting point is 00:23:54 five days a week, we are really setting ourselves up for disaster in the next generation. And, you know, a lot of people I know they live in conservative areas. I hear them say, well, you know, my kid's teacher goes to our church. We know them. They're not learning the gender ideology, critical race theory stuff. they have a good curriculum and whatever. And I'm sure that is still true in some areas. I would probably argue it's not going to be true for very long,

Starting point is 00:24:24 but I would encourage people to consider not just what your child is not learning. Say that that's true in your particular area. But I would also ask, what are they actively learning? And so I am thankful in my Christian education that the Bible was really a part of every subject that I learned. And people ask me, like, how do you remember? Reference is how do you have things memorized? How do you kind of have a knowledge of the Bible? And I really can't pat myself on the back very much for that at all, at all, because really it comes from learning about this stuff from kindergarten onward. And so I have such a foundation, thankfully, of how to kind of

Starting point is 00:25:05 make sure that in every subject that we're thinking through and everything that we're approaching, that it really is colored by a biblical worldview. Because in my most form of, years, I was given those tools. I was given that kind of education. That doesn't mean that people who don't have Christian education can never have a very robust theology and a great knowledge of the Bible, because of course they can. But I think that we are helping our kids so much by rather than putting them on the front lines at the battlefield, when they're not even big enough to hold up their proverbial shield yet. We are saying, okay, in your most formative years, we are going to do everything we possibly can to make sure that your entire educational experience is influenced by

Starting point is 00:25:49 the Word of God. And wow, that is going to set you up so well for when you do go out into the world and you're met with all of these kinds of crazy ideas and different ideologies, you are going to be so prepared and so equipped to contend with those different kinds of lifestyles and ideas because you are going to have such a strong grasp on what the Word of God is. Oh, what a beautiful way to grow up. I think as parents, that's what we want for our kids. We've been given this precious gift called time. We believe in discipleship, in training, and teaching, and education. You know, one of the fears that I had when we began to home educate our children, and we have six kids, by the way, four of them are adopted. All of our children went to a private school up to sixth grade. After that, we weren't happy with the options. And someone introduced us to this world of homeschooling. And we just found that we began to flourish as a family. And we found that we had so much time together, which I know sounds kind of scary to some parents. I don't think I can spend that much time with my kids.

Starting point is 00:26:52 But, you know, somebody told me, if you do nothing for the first six months of your homeschooling experience, but learn how to be a family and go through and do life together, you will be light years ahead of the other. families and the other kids who are like disconnected people living in a boarding house. Their kids are going off being segregated according to their age or their abilities. And they're not even really experiencing the fullness and richness of being a family and the way that God makes the world work. But we began to understand that this is awesome. Our older kids can teach the younger kids.

Starting point is 00:27:33 My kids can come with me to work. They can experience the world. They're learning how to deal with people. They're getting these incredible experiences. I'm able to share my faith and pass on our values. We have community like nobody's business. Our kids are better socialized than anybody else because they're not stuck inside of a school room for seven, eight hours a day.

Starting point is 00:27:53 We're out. We're in the world. The world has become our classroom. So the point that I'm trying to make is that you don't have to feel trapped in a system that you don't want to be in. God's given your children to you, and education is something that from the beginning of America has always been led by parents. And this homeschool awakening is a parent-led movement.

Starting point is 00:28:22 They're discovering that there is hope. There are lots of options, and you get to side because you're the parent. Yep. I remember one time I was talking to Dr. Albert Mueller, we were talking about homeschooling and education, and there was an article that was out, I think, probably a year and a half ago by a Harvard professor saying that homeschooling is authoritarian and how Christian parenting is authoritarian. And Dr. Mueller said something that surprised me, but it reminds me of something you just said. He said, well, it is. It is.

Starting point is 00:28:56 He said all education is inherently authoritarian because classrooms are not a democracy. There is a teacher who is in charge. They get to say what you're going to learn. They get to dictate the curriculum and the rules and all of that. All education is inherently authoritarian. The question is who is the authority and who is a better authority of your child and your child's education? Is it this person whose worldview you know is diametrically opposed to yours and actually hostile to yours? Or is it you?

Starting point is 00:29:34 Or is it someone that you know align? with your worldview. And the power of suggestion, something I've been thinking about a lot recently, especially when it comes to the sexual ideologies pushed in school, the power of suggestion is so strong. And I think data backs this up that if you are the first person who is an authority in a child's life to suggest something that really gives you a leg up in how much you're able to influence them toward a particular idea. And so when you see these teachers just suggesting that, you know, maybe a child can be a different gender or pick a different pronoun. Maybe it seems totally innocuous to some people.

Starting point is 00:30:12 But the power of suggestion, especially on malleable minds, at such a formative age from someone who is in a position of authority that a child is told that you have to please, that you have to obey in order to get a good grade, that's really powerful. So parents just really have to consider and be careful about who is in that position of authority. Who has the power of suggestion and influence? Should it be you who loves your child so much and has their best interest at heart? Or should it be someone that you know doesn't really care one way or another how your child turns out? So it's just something to think about when we're thinking about who we want to educate our kids.

Starting point is 00:30:52 I agree with you, Ali. I would even say that because education five days a week, seven, eight hours a day, is so influential. That power of suggestion is so influential. and those who are really in charge of the Department of Public Education understand that. It's not that they don't really care how your kids turn out. They understand that this is the little workshop where we turn out people with certain worldviews that we want them to have. That's what discipleship is.

Starting point is 00:31:27 As Christian parents, we want our children to love God, to love their family, and to love our country. and to put their hope and trust in God. But a Marxist, a socialist, wants people to hate our God. They want our children to disagree with our ideas of morality and the family. And ultimately, to think that American exceptionalism, the biblical foundations that America was built on are a bad idea because they promote things like inequality and racism and that kind of thing. And to look at the government as their savior, as their protector and their provider. And the best way to do that is to simply have them in your classroom. So lots is at stake.

Starting point is 00:32:12 It's not just about the Pythagorean theorem. It's not just about memorizing the 50 states. This is about training children to think a certain way, particularly about the government and politics. And the great authorities that a socialist system must get out of the way in order to fully control your children is the family and the church. That's why parents and Christianity are targets number one and two. Yeah. And I do just want to say that there are so many wonderful Christian teachers in public schools. And I'm thankful for them. I'm thankful that they have the equipment of the Word of God, the conviction from the Holy Spirit to be there and to perhaps be

Starting point is 00:33:00 the only adult Christian influence in a lot of kids' lives. They truly are the source of sanity and light in a lot of dark places. And a lot of those public school teachers, as much as they love their jobs, as much as they love those kids, they have kids who are homeschooled. Or they understand that the system is very hard to be in for Christians. And so they are very sympathetic with some of the things that we're saying.

Starting point is 00:33:24 I just want to make sure that I'm highlighting that. I'm so glad you said that. Yes. Yes. Go ahead. I'm so glad that you said that, Allie, because my father is a public school teacher, and so is my grandmother and so is my grandfather. So there are good teachers there. In fact, I just sat next to a lady at a dinner the other night, and she has the opportunity to really teach her children great things, good things. But today's public school system is not supporting those good teachers. They're working against them. Today's public public school system is not supporting those good teachers. They're working against them. Today's public. school system, unfortunately, is not our grandparents' public school system. It's very different. Tell me a little bit more about this movie. What can people expect? And why did you make it?

Starting point is 00:34:15 I mean, I guess it's everything that we just talked about. But why did you decide, okay, there needs to be a movie about this. And what are your goals for what this movie will hopefully accomplish? Well, there's genuinely an awakening going on. There's this phenomenon that's happening in our country where homeschooling is on the rise. And even when families had the opportunity to send their kids back to school, many of them didn't because, A, they wanted to teach their kids something better

Starting point is 00:34:42 and their families were flourishing and they didn't want that to stop. So this is a documentary where we follow the stories of 17 different families all across the country. Some of them live in rural areas. Some of them live in urban areas. There are families

Starting point is 00:35:01 who do schooling totally different. Some of them have this idea of bringing the school classroom into their home and others make the world their classroom. They turn the weekdays into weekends and they teach their children differently based on their learning styles and based on their parenting teaching styles. And so we learn the ins and the outs, the how-toes and the frequently asked questions and objections so that parents can really go on this job. journey together with these families and see what it's like. It's kind of like taking a test drive and you get to see, is this really something that we should do? Because people have questions. They want options. They don't know what's possible. They don't know what's legal. And we want to

Starting point is 00:35:44 give people all of that information so that they can decide what's best for their children. Yep. I think that this is going to be really helpful because a lot of people, they're just kind of scared to homeschool. They just think, well, I've never been a teacher. I don't even remember fifth grade math, how am I going to do this? How in the world are I going to be able to be the one who is in charge of my kid's education? It isn't that kind of scary. I mean, if you want your kid to go to college, they have to get into college, they have to pass these tests. What about the parents who are just scared of failure? That's what's so excited about this is as you follow these families and we also speak with presidents and deans of admission at universities and colleges, and you find out that

Starting point is 00:36:27 homeschool kids, if the parents are really committed and you're doing this well as a family, actually do phenomenally well. And some will even tell you, we prefer children who are home-educated. Not that that's always the best, but when parents are actively involved in leading their children's education, whatever that is, private school, homeschooling, whatever, these are kids who are integrated with the world. They take initiative. They have character. They have a worldview that leads to human flourishing. And they do great. They get scholarships. They're well-rounded human beings. And as far as learning fifth grade history and math and all of those things, there are so many co-ops and networks and curriculums. There is such a rich and robust community of homeschooling around the

Starting point is 00:37:22 country that you wouldn't you wouldn't believe it and and so you have help you have support and there is nobody who loves your children more than you do there's no one who knows them as well as you do and you begin to learn these things together as a family across age age ranges and abilities and talents and strengths and all of you are working together in community with other families in community and it really opens the entire world up to you as your classroom. Talk a little bit more. You've mentioned it a couple of times about this socialization aspect. I would say like that's the big fearmongering talking point typically from public school

Starting point is 00:38:04 advocates or, you know, anti-homchool activists who say, well, kids who homeschool, they're weird. They're not going to be socialized because they're isolated and, you know, their parents or Quakers or whatever it is. So talk a little bit more. more about that. What does socialization look like when your kids are homeschooled? So, no disrespect to the Quakers. Yeah, no disrespect at all. But socialization can be amazing with homeschooling. So if you really think about it, thinking that you're going to

Starting point is 00:38:43 socialize your children by sending them to public school is kind of like, like thinking that you're going to teach your children about nutrition by dropping them off at a candy store. Yeah. It's it's not the kind of socialization that you really want. How often are we saying, hey, don't look at that. Hey, don't hang out with those kids. Hey, and all of a sudden we're trying to, we're on the defense trying to keep our kids from all of this socialization that they're getting in public school unsupervised or even the people in charge encouraging them to do and believe and look at things that we don't want them to see. Listen, Ali, I heard a story from one of the families that we followed in the movie, her dad was involved in assisting in passing a bill

Starting point is 00:39:27 in their state that notified parents when explicit material was being shown to their elementary kids, elementary grade kids at their school. And she thought, well, this is a no-brainer. Like, of course, this is going to pass. And when they started to read the examples to people in the room of the explicit material that's currently being read to those kids, the judge stopped the proceeding. And he actually ordered everyone under 18 years old to leave the room because it was so explicit. And then the teachers from the unions and others were actually screaming and yelling at the parents who objected saying, you have no business telling us what to teach your children. We have the degrees. We are the experts. You butt out. And it was at that moment that she realized,

Starting point is 00:40:17 okay, we just pulled back the curtain. I see the agenda here. My kids. My kids. are out of here. Yeah. And so socialization happens most naturally, and I think in the most healthy way, when it's conducted in the real world within the context of the protection of a loving family in community with other families, with grandmas and grandpas and infants and toddlers and teenagers, not segregated according to age or race or special abilities, but everybody working together. Yeah, absolutely. How do you think churches can better facilitate and encourage homeschooling? Because it does seem like this is something that some churches don't want to touch. They don't want to offend people who send their kids to public school. Or maybe they just don't even really think about it.

Starting point is 00:41:11 But I'm thinking about parents who maybe they feel like they can't afford to homeschool, even though homeschool can't be very affordable. But maybe the single mom, she has to work full-time. She doesn't want her kid to be in public school, but she feels like she has no other options. There seems to be a space that could be filled by the church to help support these kinds of parents. Do you see that happening? And if not, like, how can churches kind of take the first steps in supporting those kinds of parents? I agree with you. Yes, the church can play a very important role in supporting parents who want their kids to have a great education. And so I encourage church leaders to do that.

Starting point is 00:41:55 And I know many who are doing that. And this is one of the great things, Allie, that I see about these extraordinary pressures that are coming upon us in America, particularly within the family of faith. I believe that God is using these pressures to wake us up from our slumber. We've been asleep on these issues for so long. How is it that we have let our children go someplace and learn things that we're not aware of for decades, and now we're shocked and we're horrified at what our kids are coming back and saying, mom and dad, I don't believe what you've taught me about God. You guys are archaic in your morality.

Starting point is 00:42:34 You don't even understand how bad we are as a nation. Churches can provide parents with resources and support so that parents can take their kids out of that kind of a system and can plug them into a system with other parents, with other single parents, with co-ops, with networks. And the church can provide a huge support for that. And the pastors that I know who are doing that are seeing terrific results. And they're understanding the importance and pouring more and more resources into it because it is the future. And I think all churches need to make that a huge priority.

Starting point is 00:43:14 And one thing the churches can do is they can encourage their congregants to go see your movie, the Home School Awakening. Where can people watch this? It's in select movie theaters. And so if it's not in someone's area, can they watch it online? How does this work? So the Home School Awakening is going to be in theaters for two nights only, and that's on June 13th and 14th. Now, it's going to be in theaters all around the country, but it's only for those two nights.

Starting point is 00:43:42 Therefore, go online and reserve your tickets now, because once the tickets are gone, they're gone. And I don't know when you're going to be able to see the movie after that. We'll let you know, but the best way to see it is in the movie theater. So if you go to the homeschoolawakening.com, you can get tickets there. I've got a link on my website as well at Kirk Cameron.com. And you can reserve tickets for your friends, for your family. If you're thinking about homeschooling but you have questions, or if you have family members who object to your homeschooling and you want to help provide them

Starting point is 00:44:16 with reasons and answers to their questions. questions, they'd be great people to invite. Yep. And so you go to the homeschoolawakening.com, and then you go up to buy tickets. And then once you do that, you can enter in your zip code. And then different theaters will pull up. This would be a great thing to do with your small group, different people in your congregation. This could just be a fun activity, bring your kids, all that good stuff. I'm super excited about it. I hope that tons and tons of people go see this and get educated and also just get encouragement. If you're already homeschool family, you just need encouragement or a reminder of why you do

Starting point is 00:44:54 what you do. Yes. Then I think that this would be a great movie, a great documentary for you guys too. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on to talk about these important issues. Thank you genuinely for the work you do, the content that you put out. You really are a trailblazer in this space. And I know that you've just served as so much encouragement for so many families and so many marriages. So I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Allie, thank you. It's an honor and always a

Starting point is 00:45:24 pleasure to talk with you. You are such an important voice in our culture right now. And I thank God for you. And thanks for helping us get the word out about the homeschool awakening. Yes, of course. Thank you so much. All right, guys. Hope that you enjoyed that conversation. Something to think about. You guys know how I feel about the education system. The goal is to not, is not to make you feel disheartened if you are someone who you're a student in a public school system or maybe you sent your kids all the way through public school turned out great or maybe you regret that decision. The goal is to not make you feel sad about that, but to empower and to encourage you and to maybe challenge our thinking about education and to make sure that you know that there are other opportunities

Starting point is 00:46:12 and options for you and for all of us to take seriously the responsibility of disciplining our kids, stewarding their minds, cultivating as much as we can through every subject that we teach them, both at home and outside in the world, to love God with all their heart, mind, soul, and strength, to love their neighbor as themselves, to be discerning, to be wise, to be critical thinkers, because in this age of group think where everyone is just going downstream and everyone is just repeating the talking points that they hear and people are literally learning morality from Snapchat, we want our kids to be different. We want our kids to be godly. We want our kids to be godly. We want our our kids to be full of grace and truth. That doesn't mean that they are always going to be accepted

Starting point is 00:46:52 and liked by the world, but that's not really our goal as parents, right? Our goal as parents is to raise godly and Christ-like children. So in everything that we do, we ask for the strength and for the wisdom from God to be able to do that. And Kurt Cameron is a great resource in this documentary will be a great resource for you. I did just want to give a shout out in light of the conversation that we are having. You might remember a few months back, sometimes, last year. I had a mom named Sherry Clemens on and she went viral on social media because she went to a school board meeting for Richardson ISD in Texas where she read some excerpts from a book that was given to her eighth grade child on a book list by the child's teacher. And the book was not only filled

Starting point is 00:47:45 with all different kinds of ways that a young person can commit suicide, but also very sexual material that was just wildly inappropriate, especially for a young person. And so this mom is similar to one of the moms that Kirk Cameron was just speaking about. She read these excerpts in a school board meeting, and she was very fiery about it. She was very persuasive when she was talking about the problems with this, and it kind of woke her up and woke a lot of other people up. to the problems that are having in public schools. And this is in an area, by the way, that is, it's not San Francisco. It's not Portland. It's not D.C., New York City.

Starting point is 00:48:25 I mean, we are talking about the suburbs of Dallas in Texas. So she came on the show to talk about this and how to raise kids as Christians in this crazy and chaotic culture. Anyway, she decided to run for school board in Richardson, ISC. She decided to raise a respectful ruckus even further. she applied our maximum that politics matter because people matter. So she decided to run for school board.

Starting point is 00:48:54 And now she is in a runoff in this particular election. It was so close. And so she's in a runoff for the next, I think it's like 30 days. She will be in this runoff election. And so you need to ensure if you are in that area, if you, this is RISD District 2. June 18th is the day that you can vote if you are in Richardson, if this is in your district,

Starting point is 00:49:22 R-I-S-D District 2, make sure that you go out, that you vote for Sherry Clemens. She is going to do everything she can to be salt and light in this arena and try to get this district on the right track. So June 18th, runoff election. Make sure that we are voting in our local elections. I'm speaking to myself too. It's just so easy to not even know that it's going on or to say, oh, I'll do that later. And then you just forget. But we really need to make sure that we are involved in our local elections.

Starting point is 00:49:54 That's really where the change is going to happen. That is where conservatives and Christians can gain ground. By the way, and so good for Sherry Clements. I just because she was a previous guest, I know there's probably a lot of you out there that maybe you're in the same situation. But because she was a previous guest, I wanted to make sure that I gave her a shout out. June 18th runoff election in Richardson, Texas. isd district too. All right, just another thing.

Starting point is 00:50:18 If you guys want merch that says raise a respectful ruckus or politics matter because policy matters because people matter, then you can go to the link in the description of this episode. We've got cute t-shirts and we've got more stuff coming out, guys. We've got some stickers. We've got some water bottles. I think we have another t-shirt. And you guys are going to love it. I'm super excited about it.

Starting point is 00:50:38 But make sure that you get your merch while it is. still available. Also, if you love Relatable, it would mean so much to us if you leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. Make sure you subscribe on YouTube as well. Thank you guys so much for being here. If you haven't listened to yesterday's episode, just kind of giving an analysis and a response to the response to the Buffalo shooting. Then make sure that you go listen to that. We will be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

Starting point is 00:51:23 On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you, about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts.

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Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 618 | Kirk Cameron on Homeschooling & Raising Godly Kids

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