Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 619 | Pronoun Police Go After Brave Middle Schoolers | Guests: Rose Rabidoux & Luke Berg

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Wednesday. This episode of Relatable is brought to you by Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com slash All right, guys.

Starting point is 00:00:50 That's good ranchers.com slash alley. All right, guys. We're halfway through the week. I know that you guys are so busy with end of school stuff. It seems like May has just been flying by. There are so many activities that you guys, you moms who have kids in school are doing. Why? Why do schools make the last month so incredibly chaotic?

Starting point is 00:01:27 Like, can this not be spread out over a few months? Like, I don't know, starting in March or something like that. But then maybe it's good. Maybe after all those activities are done, you can just take a, collective deep sigh of relief because it is summer. I love summer. It's my favorite season. Although where I am, it has been as hot as Hades, almost, probably not quite since like March. And so if you're looking, I don't know, you can't really tell with this lighting, but if you're watching on YouTube, I'm like already pretty bronze. Who knows how I'm going to look by the end of

Starting point is 00:02:00 the summer? So I'm excited about that. I love summer. Hope you guys have fun summer plans and that you are planning to relax. Oh, speaking of all of that, that's what I was going to say. Next week, we are relatable is taking a week off just to have a break, not really for any reason. We are not going to be putting out any new episodes until after Memorial Day. I can't remember if we decided to do some replay episodes. We'll probably do that. We'll probably have some content to put out that we pre-record this week as far as videos and stuff go. But no new relatable episodes. next week or the following Monday, we will be back the Tuesday after Memorial Day. I know, I know, I'm sorry. You guys are going to misrelatable, but that's okay. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

Starting point is 00:02:49 I'm sure that we will have a very fiery episode coming back to Tuesday after Memorial Day. All right. Speaking of fiery episodes, today is going to be an awesome episode because we've got quite a few things to talk about. I'm really excited for you to listen to the last part of today's episode. I am interviewing a woman named Rose Rabido and her attorney. And the reason that we are talking is because Rose's son, he is an eighth grader at a public school in Wisconsin, he is being charged by the district along with two of his friends with sexual harassment. Now, why is he being charged with sexual harassment? It is because he and two other male students referred to a female student who recently said that she is non-binary and wants to go by they them.

Starting point is 00:03:34 These male students referred to this quote unquote non-binary student by she her pronouns. They weren't trying to be malicious. They weren't trying to purposely be impolite, but they used she her pronouns. Now the district is charging them with sexual harassment. You can imagine what a nightmare this has been for the family. So we're going to talk to Rosemary. And we are also going to talk to her lawyer. How far is this charge going to go?

Starting point is 00:04:04 What is this going to look like? Is this a legitimate charge? Is this actual sexual harassment? What do other families need to know who could be potentially facing something like this? And so we're going to get into that discussion with them. You are going to learn a lot from that. And you're going to have the opportunity, too, to send this family support. because as you can imagine, they really need that.

Starting point is 00:04:28 They really need that right now. We are really kind of continuing the conversation that we had yesterday with Kurt Cameron. He has recently finished a documentary about the homeschool awakening that is happening across the country. And he has been targeted by the left because of that, because he has talked about the problems with our public education system in the United States. If you haven't listened to that episode, definitely go listen to yesterday's conversation. with Kirk Cameron, but this is kind of, this is kind of a part two of that in really highlighting the serious issues that we are having in public education in the United States and just some of the progressive craziness that is coming out of our education system.

Starting point is 00:05:15 We really need to be aware as parents, whether or not your kids are in public school of what kind of ideology is really pervading our schools because you might think you're insulated because you live in a conservative area and you know your kids your kids teachers or maybe your kids go to private school or maybe your kids are homeschooled so you think this is irrelevant. It's actually very relevant to all of us because we share a society. We are not kind of in these little segments that don't overlap just because your kids go to private school and not public school, like the future generation, how they're educated, the things that they are learning, the values that are being instilled in them, that has an effect on all of us.

Starting point is 00:06:01 That has an effect on the future of our countries. It has an effect on the future of elections. It has an effect on their own mental health. And so we really need to be paying attention because the vast majority of young people in this country do attend a public school and just the rot and the toxicity. that we have seen characterizing so much of the curriculum that is being taught in these public schools, it's really troubling. And as I said, it really matters. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest

Starting point is 00:06:35 issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Starting point is 00:07:12 All right. Let me tell you about some of these crazy stories that are happening in the education system. And also, after we have the conversation with Rose Rabidow, I'm going to give you a little bit of an update on the whole formula crisis that's been happening. This is, I guess, if you wanted to put this episode under one umbrella, it would be a message to moms and the things that are affecting kids and the policies that are specifically affecting kids. And again, another example of why politics and the so-called culture war issues happen so, or, matters so much. So there was, there is a Christian school in Louisville, Kentucky. There's a Christian Academy there that is under fire by the mainstream media. I first read the story, I think, in the Courier Journal. They are under fire because they gave an assignment to middle schoolers that encouraged them to write a letter by citing scripture to a friend who has decided that they are gay. So let me read you some of the assignment and then I'll explain why people are freaking out, although when I read the assignment, you're probably going to be able to understand why progressives

Starting point is 00:08:30 and people who are not Christian, people who don't have this belief system, are freaking out about this. So this was assigned again to middle schoolers at this Christian Academy in Louisville. This is a letter to a homosexual friend. The qualification for this being an excellent letter would be that the letter communicates truth lovingly and clearly from Scripture with obvious logical argument to persuade. Good would be considered a letter that communicates, or a letter that is good that is considered good would be one that communicates truth in a way that lacks love or clarity loosely based on scripture and logic to persuade. Fair would be a letter that communicates some truth mixed with some error with little love or clarity without reference to

Starting point is 00:09:12 scripture, utilizing some logic with no persuasion, needs work would be letter communicates at least one truth, a little love or clarity without reference to scripture, or the use of logic and persuasion. And so that is the, that's kind of the summary of the assignment and the qualifications for excellence. And that kind of tells you what the goal is, that these students are to learn how to present an argument that is loving, that is gentle, that is kind, and yet is solidly based on scripture. And so the prompt says that they are trying to persuade the person that they are writing to of the goodness of God's design for them. They want the teacher wants the students to learn how to lovingly and compassionately speak the truth to the person that you're talking to

Starting point is 00:10:08 in a way that does not approve of any sin. The prompt says that you assume that you have known this friend since kindergarten, you go to the same church, that you've been pretty good friends until now. This friend is your same age, and you are, again, supposed to convince this friend of the goodness of God's design and to show them that homosexuality will not bring them satisfaction. So you can understand how someone who does not have this worldview, who does not believe that the Bible is authoritative, who doesn't believe in a Christian belief, would be offended by this, would not like this particular assignment.

Starting point is 00:10:48 But look, understand that this has been the Christian belief system in the marriage of one male and one female, one man, and one woman since not just the beginning of Christianity, but the beginning of Judaism, the beginning of time. You go to the first chapter of the Bible, and God explicitly defines marriage as between one man and one woman. He also defines our gender as male or female. This is part of being made in God's image. So this has been the Orthodox traditional belief of the Christian church for thousands of years. And so this assignment, while I understand why it would be offensive to some people, should not be surprising to anyone. it should it should not take anyone back and yet uh the courier journal um reported reported this and

Starting point is 00:11:43 said that um so there was a there was a father j p davis he is a kentucky based business owner he posted screenshots of the assignment on social on social media and said that he was shown the homework by a close friend with a child who attends the christian academy of Louisville, who is visibly and understandably upset about the assignment. So the person who originally posted about this on social media does not have a student that attends this academy, but has a friend who has a child who attends the academy. And then the Christian Academy of Louisville School System Superintendent Darren Long said, according to the Courier Journal, that the assignment had been given to students in a middle school Bible elective class.

Starting point is 00:12:35 It was part of a unit of study which discusses what are humans and where is their identity? Long wrote and in context, how was how a person could discuss homosexuality with a friend from a biblical perspective with compassion and love. And the Courier Journal goes on to say the Christian Academy school system is a private school system in the region with a Christianity-based curriculum. It has four campuses in Louisville and Southern Indiana. More than 3,000 children are in the school system. And then the man who originally posted the screenshots who apparently is upset about this said this. The statistics speak for themselves on suicide among LGBTQ plus people. And these seventh graders that are being subjected to hate and division are being subjected to hate and division.

Starting point is 00:13:23 And it's not necessary. I know it's a Christian school, but that's not my Christianity. That's not my values. That's not what Jesus, if they want to make that argument represented, Jesus didn't go around asking people to judge and tell other people. how they're wrong and shame. Man, what superficial theology. At 2002, Cal graduate with ties to the school. Kylie Marcy told the Courier Journal that she was outraged.

Starting point is 00:13:47 When she heard about the assignment Friday morning through a social media post, she said she immediately reached out to other alumni, as well as parents who have kids at Cal. She was angry, she said, but she was not surprised. Marcy said the texting content of the assignment indicate it was homework issued in the school's Christian worldview class. If you look on Twitter, there are a lot of people who also have the outraged reaction. They think that this is terrible, scary indoctrination, that this is somehow going to contribute

Starting point is 00:14:17 to kids who identify as gay or transgender hating themselves and committing suicide. Again, that is always the manipulation tactic, that you are not allowed to have the belief or state the belief, articulate the belief that Christians have had for thousands of years about sexuality and gender or else who are pushing people to the brink of suicide. And you know, actually, LGBTQ advocacy groups have warned against using that talking point because there just isn't very good data at all on the rate of suicide among people who identify as gay or transgender. Because when someone commits suicide, the people aren't necessary. Like there's no one, there's no data collection service that is then asking, or you.

Starting point is 00:15:01 even the hospital is not even asking, well, what was this person's gender identity? What was this person's sexual orientation when they committed suicide? So the numbers that you're seeing are largely guesstimates based on maybe what the family or friends would report. There's no official system that says, okay, let us make sure that we know the gender identity and sexual orientation of every young person who is committing suicide. And there certainly is no objective data showing that the reason that these students, if you even know their sexual orientation or gender identity before they commit suicide, why they are committing suicide. I don't think that there is any objective, causal relationship that you can find between, oh, well, there are these Christians over here

Starting point is 00:15:46 who have Christian belief about sexuality and all of these teenagers who identify as gay who are committing suicide because of these people over here who have this belief system. It is a manipulation tactic. There's not actually data that proves that kind of correlation or that kind of causation. It is an intimidation tactic to say that you aren't really being loving. You aren't really being godly or biblical if you believe what Christians have believed for thousands of years. Look, I think this is an incredible assignment. I'm actually very encouraged that young people are learning to think logically, to think biblically, and then to articulate that. There are several times in this assignment where these kids are told, hey, you need to do this with love. You need to do this with gentle

Starting point is 00:16:27 You need to let this person know that you still love them as a person, that they're someone that's made in the image of God, but that this is what you believe as a Christian based on what the Bible says. I mean, we would be so much better off as a church. We would be so much better off as a country if we had more young people who are able to think critically and biblically. You don't have to agree with it. You can be offended by it. You can be outraged by it. And, you know, I understand that. If you have a contradictory worldview or if you feel like this violates or offends the lifestyle that you have.

Starting point is 00:16:57 chosen to live. But this is a private school. This is a private school. Parents are paying for their kids to go to the school so they have this kind of curriculum. And as I said, this is what Christians have believed for thousands of years. And this person, this dad who is outraged, who I'm sure is some kind of activist saying, oh, that's not my Christianity. That's not my Jesus. Yeah, because you don't actually worship the Jesus of the Bible. You don't. You don't. Because people like to say, oh, Jesus never talked about sexuality. Jesus never talked about marriage. Well, that just shows that, okay, then you don't actually worship the triune God that the Bible describes because Jesus is God. So everything that God says in the Old Testament, everything that God is, Jesus says and is also.

Starting point is 00:17:43 Like read John 1. The word is God. And so this is just an entirely superficial understanding of what the Bible is. And by the way, as we've talked about many times, Jesus does talk about marriage. He does define marriages between a man and a woman in Matthew 19, 4 through 5. A man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh. He is talking in the context of divorce, but obviously he is reiterating and reemphasizing the created order, what God created is marriage. As we have said many times, we've used this alliteration that we can. came up with a couple years ago, the definition of marriage and holy sexuality, according to the Bible, is rooted in creation, Genesis 1.27. It's reiterated throughout scripture. It's repeated by

Starting point is 00:18:34 Jesus himself in Matthew 19, 4 through 5. It is representative of Christ in the church, as we read at the end of Ephesians 5. And therefore, because it is representative of Christ in the church, in that a wife is to submit to her husband as to the Lord, and a husband is supposed to love his wife as Christ loves the church. It's representative of Christ and the church, and therefore it is reflective of the gospel. The Bible, and therefore all of human history starts with a marriage between a man and a woman. It ends with a marriage between Christ who is the bridegroom and the church who is the bride. It is wildly significant because it is not just physically significant for the purposes of procreation, but it is also spiritually and eternally significant because of the

Starting point is 00:19:20 representation that it is of Christ in the church and therefore the gospel itself. We also see it in commandments like honor your father and mother. That's the first commandment with a promise. And so the definition of marriage as between a man and a woman is seen throughout scripture. It is a core tenet of the Christian faith. And if you don't understand that or if that's something that you deny someone who professes to be a Christian, you're not just denying some, you know, extrapolated,

Starting point is 00:19:47 extracted verses from the Old Testament. are actually denying something that God says not only has creation significance, but has eternal significance, you are denying a fundamental core tenet of Christianity. So this person, J.P. Davis, because he doesn't actually worship Christ, of course, he is offended by something like this. But I encourage this, I encourage the school to stand firm. I encourage the school to stand strong to know that, yes, of course, the world is going to be very angry. They're going to be very hostile. They're going to try to launch arrows at you. They're trying, they're going to try to take you down. They're going to try to cancel you. They're going to

Starting point is 00:20:24 try to docks the student. That is to be expected when you stand against the popular sexual moral dogma of the day. Yeah, that's just, that's what's going to happen. But you stand firm. You double down. If God says something is good in right and true. And if God, who is love, as 1 John 1.9 says, says that something is right or says that something is wrong. The most loving thing that you can do is agree with God, not agree with the world. You don't agree with the world's convoluted definition of love. So good for this particular school. I pray and hope that they stand strong. If there's any way that you can send support to them to stand strong, even amidst the hostility that they are receiving, I encourage you to do so. All right. So that's what's happening at a private school that a lot of

Starting point is 00:21:14 progressives are mad at. Now, what's interesting is that you don't see the same progressives mad at one of the things that I'm about to talk about, about the kind of curriculum that I'm about to bring up, which is really just so disturbing. So you guys know, we follow lives of TikTok. You guys probably follow lives of TikTok. You follow them on Twitter. Maybe you follow their newsletter. And basically, what they do is they just, post teachers saying in their own words what they are teaching their young students. We're talking preschool teachers, kindergarten teachers, elementary school teachers, middle school, high school, all trying to push this kind of pronoun nonsense and this gender

Starting point is 00:21:59 confusion ideology onto students and forcing students to call them, you know, mix instead of Mr. or Mrs. or use they-them pronouns. There was a teacher recently who said that she doesn't exercise with her kindergarten students about picking different. pronouns on different days. That is cruel. That is a form of psychological abuse. Kindergarteners are still learning how to use proper pronouns. And they're still learning about their bodies and what it means to be a girl or a boy. And obliterating that, obliterating those categories that helps them put the world into context and actually make them feel safer and make things feel more comprehensible and necessarily smaller, more understandable for

Starting point is 00:22:41 them. Abliterating that is just sending them. into a world of chaos and confusion and also could send them down a path of questioning their own identity, which there are very serious physical, lifelong ramifications to that kind of confusion that can often end in permanent sterility, infertility, serious genital mutilation, body mutilation, all because of the power of suggestion when they are so young by a person and a position of authority who really doesn't care how that child ends up. We've talked about this many times how parents bear the brunt of that kind of confusion and that kind of outcome in a kid's life.

Starting point is 00:23:26 And so there's no place for that kind of conversation in a classroom. There's just not. But unfortunately, some teachers have become more and more brazen. I'm not just in talking about craziness like that, but also in just talking about sexual subjects with kids. And by the way, talking about things like gender identity to young children, that is sexual innately because you are actually causing children. You are talking to kids, even if you're not explicitly saying it, about something that has to do with their private parts.

Starting point is 00:23:56 That's what you're doing. You're doing it without the presence or the informed consent of the parent. And in many cases, as we've talked about, the teachers, the school of the district is telling kids not to tell their parents, that this is not a conversation that they need to tell their parents. And they do this under the guise of trying to protect kids from their parents, which that in itself is a very dystopian way to see things, a very brave new world kind of mentality. But that is also, yes, a form of grooming. You're talking to children about a subject that at least, at least implicitly has to do with their private parts without the consent of their parent. You are a groomer.

Starting point is 00:24:37 Yes, you are a predator. And I don't care. I don't care with the Washington Post or the New York Times or any left-wing activist has to say about how that's healthy conversation to have with a kid. No, that is a form of sexual harassment. I'm sorry, that is a form of grooming. So the fact that progressives are angry that a Christian private school is teaching its middle schoolers, its seventh graders, how to lovingly communicate a biblical position on sexuality that Christians have held for thousands of years and not the fact that there were teachers indoctrinating young kids with gender confusion and talking to them, talking to them about inherently sexual subjects.

Starting point is 00:25:18 That tells you a lot, right? That tells you that you as a Christian should not be the one apologizing or backing down or ashamed at all about the things that you think kids should be taught, especially in private schools. And in this particular case, there was a story that was posted by Libs of TikTok, then was verified by various users, actually verified by the school itself. So this was an assignment that was given to a four-year-old, a four-year-old. This one happened to occur in Canada, where a teacher gave a worksheet and we'll post

Starting point is 00:26:02 the picture of it on YouTube that is part of a curriculum called BodySmartial. right from the start. And here is what the prompt says. Some children like to touch their own private body parts and some children don't. What places in your home are private? Draw a picture of the private places where you can, this is so disturbing. This is something that a teacher gave four-year-olds where you can touch your penis or vulva if you want to. All families have different rules about masturbation. Touching your own private parts. Talk to your trusting grown-ups about your family value. So first of all, like a child this young can't even read these things. And so this is, so is this child supposed to go to his, two hits or her family and say,

Starting point is 00:26:52 hey, this is my assignment. As you can imagine, there was a teacher who was absolutely outraged about this. So the work she, as I said, is adapted from a book called Body Smart right from the start targeting kids aged three to seven, age three to seven. So the person who alerted lips of TikTok to this followed up and then said the school knew. So the school said that they knew nothing about it, that they're investigating, that this was something that just the teacher decided to assign, but that the school didn't necessarily approve of it. And so, like, this kind of thing, this kind of thing is what's happening, unfortunately, at schools, not just in this country, but in Canada. and this is according or this is um alert bay british columbia that's where this uh that's where the school is and that is uh where the parent is who originally took to facebook to complain about this and um it was called

Starting point is 00:27:54 i don't i have no idea how to pronounce this because it's apparently a first nation school to lisztalagi calakawa school is part of the first nation school in canada so that's that's where that kind of thing is happening. And unfortunately, very similar things are happening in the United States, typically, unfortunately, under the guise of gender identity. And so, again, consider where people's outrage is placed here. Should we really be upset about a Christian school that is teaching biblical sexuality to its students? Or maybe you should be more upset by the things that lives of TikTok is posting. The public schools are actively indoctrinating kids. with such a harmful and shameful ideology talk about, by the way, encouraging suicide.

Starting point is 00:28:41 Like, you know the trans suicide rate is so much higher than the general population, even in places like Sweden, which is extremely progressive and accepting. It can actually be tied to a lack of acceptance. It's typically tied to the fact that these people have very serious mental health problems that are not being properly treated. So, again, it's projection. The accusations are just a part of projection. and we just have to make sure that we are seeing things as clearly as we can.

Starting point is 00:29:10 And of course, as Christians, relying on what we know God says to be good and right and true. Romans 1 tells us that the world is constantly going to get things backwards, including where they place their outrage. All right. Speaking of outrage, I am really looking forward to you hearing this next story about this parent whose son is being charged with sexual harassment for not using they, them, pronouns. at his middle school in Wisconsin. Thank you both so much for joining me.

Starting point is 00:29:41 Rose, I want to start with you. Tell us about this story, how your son is involved in this? How are these sexual harassment allegations made? Just bring us to the beginning. How did this all start? Sure. Sure.

Starting point is 00:29:55 Thank you again for having us on. He, last month, a student came out as non-binary and told the classroom that, they wanted to be called they, them versus she and her. And my son came home, Braden, he came home and he was really struggling with it because they and them are plural pronouns and he wasn't sure how to use them. He was worried about messing up. And so I gave him the advice to just call her by name. And so that is what he was trying to do. He had, he, it was. He had, he, This is not a person he comes in contact with.

Starting point is 00:30:39 He doesn't hang out with her. He was sticking up for a friend in music class. She was shaming this friend for not using the proper pronouns. And after he saw his friend being belittled, he finally stood up and said he doesn't have to use pronouns. It's his constitutional right to not use pronouns. And so that was, you know, the only time he addressed her when he did mess up, he apologized and, you know, used her name. And I received a phone call from the elementary school principal who was the person who was just gathering the facts.

Starting point is 00:31:27 And he told me that I was going to be receiving an email with sexual harassment allegations. Wow. And I just, I couldn't believe it. Of course. I was floored. So your son is in elementary school? No, he's in middle school. He's in eighth grade.

Starting point is 00:31:45 He's 13. He's a young eighth grader. But they had put the elementary school principal in charge of gathering the facts. Okay. And tell me what has the process been like since that email. Well, when did the email? When did you get the email? And then tell us what has the process been like since then?

Starting point is 00:32:03 Sure. So I he called me on a Monday. It was April 25th. He called me, forewarned me of the email. I received the email. It was a one page kind of form letter with a blurb saying that he, my son was being charged with sexual harassment for not using proper pronouns. And then, um, he asked to set up a meeting with myself and Braden on Tuesday the following day. Um, we didn't receive any more information. We, we didn't receive any more information. We didn't know who the complaint was about or we assumed that it was about this person, but we didn't know the details of it. We had no idea what Braden had done wrong. And he also said that if I wasn't available, he would meet with Braden on his own. And I told him absolutely not. I will be there. And we went into a conference room where they typed up everything we were saying and he asked

Starting point is 00:33:03 my son a bunch of questions and Braden answered honestly, you know, to the best of his ability. And that was it. And when it was done, the principal said to Brayden, do you have any questions? And Brayden said, he sat there for a second and he said, yeah, I do. What is this going to do in my future? How am I going to get into college? If I have these on my permanent record, am I going to be able to get scholarships? I mean, it broke my heart. Of course. I just, for him to be concerned about that when he's being a kid, when he's not being mean, he's a kind person. Right.

Starting point is 00:33:46 So I, the principal couldn't answer. He just shrugged his shoulders and said, I don't know. And we left. And it took a couple days. I emailed him after and I asked him for more detail. I asked him for who had made the complaint and what the complaint was about. And I received it Thursday afternoon. So, and then I received it.

Starting point is 00:34:12 But as soon as that meeting was over on Tuesday, I reached out to Luke and asked them to help me. Wow. Wow. Just as a mom, my heart is breaking too. It sounds like your son was trying to do the right thing and speaking up. for his friend, it is a very confusing subject. It's very confusing just linguistically, especially for young kids who are,

Starting point is 00:34:42 I mean, they're still learning in a lot of ways. And so they're still learning grammar in a lot of ways. And so that's a lot of pressure and a big burden to put on kids. And I think that your son, he shows a lot of, he shows a lot of wisdom, I think, in even considering what are the long-term consequences of being blamed for sexual harassment? I mean, how is this going to affect my future?

Starting point is 00:35:09 I imagine that you as a parent, that that was so hard to hear just to see his little wheels turning and his heart already hurting, considering his future prospects and how those might be inhibited. I'm sure this has just been such a strain on your family. It has. It has. It's been a strain on my husband, myself. I have a younger son coming up through middle school. And what is it going to do to him? How is he going to be treated because of these allegations? But then are these allegations going to happen to him too? Yeah. It is just a struggle. And it's not just my son. It's other parents, too. It's every, I mean, this is, this is everyone. This is something that we all have to consider. Luke, I want to hear from you. Tell me what the charges are if you think that these stand up. Like, is this sexual harassment under Title IX? Tell us just kind of your first reaction in hearing what her son was being charged with. Yeah, as you said, he's being charged with sexual harassment under Title IX. And there's nothing remotely close. to this in Title IX. You won't find the word mispronouning anywhere in the regulations.

Starting point is 00:36:30 You won't find it anywhere in the law. Sexual harassment is typically meant for things like rape and groping and, you know, quid pro quo sexual favors, really egregious stuff. There's a catch-all for severe, pervasive and conduct that's so objectively unreasonable that it effectively denies someone access to education. And obviously, mispronouning isn't remotely close to that. In fact, courts have even made clear that teasing and even gender-based insults doesn't count under Title IX. So this is not even close to sexual harassment under Title IX.

Starting point is 00:37:04 But the district basically went nuclear with this. What should have happened if there was an issue with students, they should have contacted the parents, they should have got everybody in a room and talked about it and worked through it. But instead, they just went to this really high level immediately without any warning to the parents, without any prior discussion, and that's totally inappropriate. So we're calling on the district to dismiss this, and it's not too late for them to do the right thing. They can still de-escalate this.

Starting point is 00:37:31 They can still admit that this was a mistake, dismiss the charges, and then work with the families on whatever issues need to be dealt with, but not through the formal Title IX sexual harassment process when this is not even close to sexual harassment. How and why do you think this escalated so quickly? Like, what did the process look like on their end for this child? I guess to complain to, I don't know, a teacher or administrator, and then they took it to the next level. How exactly does that work? We don't know. We don't know what happened on their end.

Starting point is 00:38:02 All we have is the things that they filed and the complaint was a one-page complaint. The entire summary of the allegations is mispronounning and it was filed by the guidance counselor. So, you know, we don't know what the conversation was internally that led to this. but, you know, it should not have been a formal complaint. It should have been a conversation with the parents first, and that didn't happen. Is there a First Amendment right to so-called misgender a person, even if it's at school? Yes. I mean, there isn't a right, obviously, to tease and harass. So you can't use pronouns and name-calling to do that, of course.

Starting point is 00:38:42 But there are a lot of people who have a reasonable objection to the idea that gender is self-declared. and don't want to endorse that idea by using pronouns. And that's okay for people to have that view. There is a right. I mean, there's a right to tease someone, correct? You're just saying that they could get, a student could get in trouble for teasing someone, but they shouldn't.

Starting point is 00:39:06 And I'm not saying that this is what Braden was doing. I'm just saying that if a student were teasing another student, that wouldn't be a violation of Title IX, correct? Yes. Yeah. Teasing absolutely is not. is not sexual harassment under Title IX. You're right about that.

Starting point is 00:39:25 In education in middle school, the First Amendment rights apply, but they're different. It's not the same as in the real world. So a school can discipline, teasing, and bullying when that happens, even though, you know, the government generally couldn't punish somebody for teasing outside of the education context. But again, it should be dealt with informally with the family, not through sexual harassment. And there's just nothing here that comes even. remotely close to sexual harassment. Could a public school basically force through the threat of school discipline a child to use someone's preferred pronouns? No, absolutely not. And that would be a very

Starting point is 00:40:04 clear First Amendment violation. And that seems to be what the district is doing here. Their position seems to be that once a student announces their preferred pronouns, any misuse of pronouns, so-called misuse is punishable speech and they are weaponizing the Title IX process into the threat to force students to comply with that. And that's totally inappropriate, a pretty clear First Amendment violation. What do you think is going to happen? I know that you mentioned that they should dismiss it, that they still have the chance to do the right thing. I don't know if you can predict, but if you were to predict what you think is going to happen, how far do you? How far do you you think that they're going to push this? You know, I don't know. It's hard to say. It just depends

Starting point is 00:40:50 on who they are and how they respond to this. People have a tendency when challenged to double down and lawyer up. I hope that doesn't happen here. I hope that they see the error of this and how this was taken totally out of proportion and dismiss it. You know, maybe they won't. And if they don't and they end up following through on this and punishing the students, then this could become a federal lawsuit. I hope it doesn't have to get to that level, but we're just going to have to wait and see. And say that they were successful, which I just don't see that happening for the reasons that you have already listed, would this be something that is on the students' records, sexual harassment for the rest of their lives? Like, how would it potentially

Starting point is 00:41:34 affect their future? Yeah, that's not entirely clear to us yet. The school hasn't given any of us clear answers about how this goes on the students' records and when they turn over records and who they turn them over to. And so that's something we're going to work through with the school district after we get through the initial investigation. So hopefully they will just dismiss it and remove the charges and it will all be over. If they follow through and threaten to leave this on the students' records, then, you know, again, it may end up in a federal lawsuit again. I hope it doesn't get to that level, but we're just going to have to work through that with the district. Well, Rose, I just want to say that, I mean, you as a mom, you're doing what all moms would do.

Starting point is 00:42:16 You are defending your son. You are standing strong. I know that comes at an emotional cost, at least to you, not to mention the financial piece of this, that even if this is dismissed, this has been a serious disruption in your families and in your son's life during a very formative year. After, by the way, the past two years of all different kinds of disruptions for kids across the country because of pandemic. restrictions and things like that. And so how is your son dealing with this? Well, it's really brought him down. He's been depressed. He doesn't want to go to school. He used to love school and he doesn't want to go. It is a fight every morning to get him going and get him motivated. And he has never been like this. He has a passion for school, a passion for reading,

Starting point is 00:43:09 and he's already planned on being a lawyer and he wants to go to college. He has his colleges picked out. And he is very concerned. I do have to say that students and outlying schools have actually reached out to him. And that has brought up his spirits, the fact that he has other students behind him, supporting him. And then I tell him what people are saying. and what I'm doing, and that brings him up and helps him out. But he, you know, it's embarrassing.

Starting point is 00:43:48 He's trying to fit in eighth grade. You're so uncomfortable anyway in eighth grade in middle school. And so this really beat him down when you're trying to find yourself and find your place. You know, it's just another thing in the world to beat you down. Yeah. You know, doing the right thing is not easy, but it seems to be harder than ever for young people. to go against the grain to swim upstream, especially when it comes to very sensitive issues like this,

Starting point is 00:44:17 because of social media, because of the various pressures that come from that. And unfortunately, the political pressures. And what I think is a politicization of the district and what seems like a political agenda on their end, I just can't imagine what your son must be feeling if we want, if people in this audience, because we've got a large audience of moms who are going to empathize with you and are really going to feel a lot from hearing your story, if they want to send you words of encouragement, if they want to support you guys in any way, how can they do that? What's the best medium for them to go through to send you words of support?

Starting point is 00:45:03 I think they could email me. I can give you my email address and then I can forward them on to Rose and her son. My email address is Luke at will dash law.org. Okay, we'll include that. We'll include that in the description. And I'm sure people will love to do that. And this is also a Christian podcast. And so there are going to be many, many families who are praying for you guys,

Starting point is 00:45:25 who are paying attention to this story and sending every kind of support that they possibly can. So I appreciate you both for coming on and for sharing your story. And I will be praying about this too because, gosh, It's heartbreaking. And I know you guys need a lot of encouragement. And I'm thankful, Luke, also, for what you do and just defending people's rights. Their constitutional rights. Gosh, that's more needed now than ever.

Starting point is 00:45:49 So thank you both so much. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So I guess I'll end this with some good news. Today was a little bit of a maybe a sad episode because there are so many dark things that are going on in our world that seem to be specifically praying on children, and that's why we continue to raise a respectful ruckus. Raising a respectful ruckus guys

Starting point is 00:46:16 about the baby formula shortage actually worked. That's why it is so important to make our voices heard, to complain about things, to even use social media as a platform to sound the alarm about important things that are going on. Because for some people, the formula shortage was literally a matter of life and death. Their babies were starving. They were diluting their baby formula, which you're not supposed to do just so that they have enough so their baby doesn't starve. We talked about, well, we'll link the episode on the baby formula shortage and what I think was actually causing it that we did last week in the description of this episode. But the good news is, is that apparently Abbott Labs, which has been closed down by the FDA, because according to the FDA, they weren't following the guidelines and they contaminated some of their formula, which led to two infant deaths and other infants getting sick. Abbott Labs, I think has disputed that and said that it was not a manufacturing error.

Starting point is 00:47:10 this manufacturer, a large manufacturer of baby formula has been shut down for three months. And so the question was like, why? Why did it take three months? Why is it taken so long for the FDA to say, okay, you can open back up? I also think they're just sketchy things going on with the FDA, including the fires at the food processing plants. That's not a conspiracy theory. That's just a guess as to why those things are happening. It's either incompetence, which is probably the better guess or malice coming from this coming from the FDA. Like we've had a formula shortage for several months now before there was a recall and a shutdown of the formula that Abbott Labs was producing back in February.

Starting point is 00:47:57 And so we still don't fully know why there is a shortage. Supply chain issues, a labor shortage, low labor participation rate. Yes, this recall. But there also seems to be a very sketchy. portion of this, perhaps coming from the FDA. And what I also think is sketchy that after everyone was complaining about it, this really kind of blew up over the past few days saying, hey, this administration needs to do something. There were journalists asking the press secretary about this, really both sides were talking about this and there was just a big uproar about this.

Starting point is 00:48:33 Now, Abbott Nutrition, according to CBS News, has said that has been shuttered since February, said that they are likely to resume operations in two weeks, according to the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, under fire from parents and politicians, President Joe Biden's administration on Monday, announced an agreement to reopen the largest domestic manufacturing plant of the infant formula, as well as to ease import rules to allow supplies from overseas amid a nationwide shortage. Now, I am glad that the respectful ruckus has moved it in this direction. Why did it take that? Why did it take people talking on their podcast, people talking on social media, people sharing stories of not being able to feed their kids for this administration to do this? Why did it take us, it should not take us talking about something on social media for a change like this to happen?

Starting point is 00:49:24 Like I understand that's part of democracy, that's part of free speech, that's why we raise our voices and that that is going to make a change. Yes, but this administration has known, we've known about a formula shortage for the past several months. This administration knew about a formula shortage for the past several months. The FDA has had this Abbott lab shut down since February. So if it just took some people talking about it on social media for Abbott and the FDA to come to an agreement to open back up, why didn't that happen at the very beginning? Like, why has it taken this long? It should not take people talking about it on social media for the administration, for these government agencies to do something that they,

Starting point is 00:50:03 to solve a problem that has been persisting for several months. I mean, this is wild. This is wild. There's something sketchy about this. I don't know what's underneath all of it. I mean, we've talked again about the potential factors, but why? Why has it taken so long? Why have they pushed parents to the brink of desperation?

Starting point is 00:50:25 Is it because of the story that came out that showed that the administration is, I mean, they're required by law to do this, but still, they're sending. baby formula to the border to feed babies of illegal immigrants. I'm glad that they're doing that. That's fine. But instead of ensuring that American babies are not starving because they don't have formula, I don't think that that's right. I mean, this is an American government. They should be putting American citizens first. That should not be controversial. You shouldn't be feeding citizens of another country instead of, in addition to it's fine, but instead of American families, that's just wrong. But I am glad. I am glad that there is that hopefully that this change allows families to get the formula that they need.

Starting point is 00:51:11 We did a whole highlight. I did a highlight about breastfeeding. And if you're pregnant or you're going to be a new mom and you're freaking out about this and you don't know if you can breastfeed, I did a highlight on that on Instagram. So you can go check that out. Hopefully that will offer encouragement and support for you. I also saw that, what's her name? The gymnast, Sean Johnson and her husband are doing like a formula exchange. I saw that on her Instagram that their mom supporting each other to try to get moms the formula that they need. Your local pregnancy center, your pediatrician.

Starting point is 00:51:49 We shouldn't have to rely on these sources, but unfortunately, I guess we do. So there are thankfully some answers out there. and hopefully there is change coming and just good job. Good job to all of you for raising a respectful ruckus about this and for recognizing how much these things matter and how much our voices really do matter and can help the most vulnerable. We will continue to do that on this podcast, however we can and encourage you to do the same thing.

Starting point is 00:52:19 Make sure that you reach out to our new friends, Rosemary and her family. through her lawyer to send them some encouragement and to know that you are there for them. One more thing. I got it in. One more thing. I forgot. We have new sticker and we have a new shirt. Millennials Against Low Rise jeans. We'll put a picture of that up on YouTube if you are watching it. And we will put the link in the description of this episode. Super cute. If you're a millennial like I am against low-rise jeans, then you need to get yourself a T-shirt or a $5 sticker. All right. That's all we've got today. We will be back here tomorrow. I'll see you guys then.

Starting point is 00:53:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts.

Starting point is 00:53:38 I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 619 | Pronoun Police Go After Brave Middle Schoolers | Guests: Rose Rabidoux & Luke Berg

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