Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 634 | Ectopic Pregnancy Myths & Evangelical Silence on Roe

Episode Date: June 28, 2022

Today we're continuing our discussion on the landmark decision by the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey. In the wake of this historic event, there is a torrent of misinformation about the issue flying around the internet. The most common lie being told by the Left seems to be that outlawing abortion also outlaws procedures to deal with miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies. We thoroughly debunk that narrative, then discuss the many "trigger laws" that are springing into effect in many states. These laws were designed to take effect if and when Roe was overturned and are meant to restrict abortion in the states where they're on the books. We discuss some of the false information circulating about these laws and read some of what they actually say. Lastly, we have a strong message for the evangelicals who are either angry about the Dobbs decision or who are happy about it but won't say so publicly. --- Timecodes: (0:00) Introduction (4:58) Debunking some viral posts & propaganda (20:11) What do different states say about abortion vs. ectopic pregnancies or miscarriages? (30:20) Popular evangelicals & their disappointing response to Roe being overturned --- Today's Sponsors: EdenPURE is having their famous BOGO free deal on Thunderstorm air purifiers for one week only! Go to EdenPureDeals.com & use discount code 'ALLIEBOGO' to get your second air purifier free, plus free shipping. Birch Gold helps convert an IRA or 401(k) into an IRA in gold & silver. Text 'ALLIE' to 989898 to get started! Good Ranchers is an award-winning subscription company that delivers American meat to your door. Try it with a one-time purchase or subscribe & get 25% off every box for the life of your subscription! Plus, right now get two free 18-oz prime ribeyes with promo code 'ALLIE' at checkout on GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE. Carly Jean Los Angeles provides clothing that is effortless, easy, & flattering on any shape, size, age, or season. Visit CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com & use promo code 'ALLIEB' to save 20% off your first order. --- Previous Episodes Mentioned: Ep 633: GOODBYE, ROE V. WADE https://apple.co/3a3e5uM Ep 527: Healing From Abortion & Using Your Story for Good | Guest: Victoria Robinson https://apple.co/3y129Sf --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise- use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Tuesday. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com slash All right.

That's good ranchers.com slash All right. We are going to continue the topic from yesterday, which is the Dobbs decision over, turn. overruling Roe v. Wade, the best news I have heard in years in years when it comes to political issues. Maybe in my entire life, I mean, it just cannot be overstated what a huge and wonderful deal this is. I really encourage you to listen to yesterday's episode. If you have not already, we broke down what is in the decision, why constitutionally it was decided by the 6th, majority. We also looked at some of the reactions to the decision. And that is the part that I want to continue on today. I did a Q&A on my Instagram a few days ago answering a lot of questions that you

guys have about Dobbs, about abortion law, about abortion in general, responding to the different arguments, the different posts that you are seeing online about the implications of the overturning of Roe v. Wade and the greater abortion. restrictions that are going into place in several states. Quite frankly, you're seeing a lot of propaganda. You're seeing a lot of really, really bad arguments. And I can't. I just don't have the capacity, the capability to respond to every single question that

you guys have or every single message that I receive on Instagram as much as I would like to. But I do try to equip you guys as much as I can with the tools to kind of break down and push back on the blatant lies that you are seeing and also just the illogical arguments that you're seeing around this subject. Today, we are going to talk about what I think is the biggest, most popular myth surrounding all of this, that the abortion laws that are going into place, now that the Dobbs decision says that there is no constitutional right to an abortion, these laws are going into place in some states and conservative states, the biggest lie that I'm seeing is

that these laws affect treatment for miscarriages and treatment for ectopic pregnancies. And so I'm going to break that down kind of what we're seeing and what's the truth about that. And we are also going to talk about, if you follow me on Instagram, you probably saw my stories about it last night. I'm going to get into it a little bit more. The reaction from some major evangelicals who consider themselves pro-life, maybe they would describe themselves as pro-all-life or holistically pro-life. or womb to tomb pro-life and why their response from my perspective is so abysmal and is so wrong, it is so dishonest, and is so hypocritical and is so unbelievably frustrating. Hey, this is Steve Day's. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest

issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever

you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. All right. So there is this message that is going around that I think that. that I have received from you guys on Instagram, 55,000 million, bejillion times. One thing that I will ask, and I have a lot of grace and patience for this, because I don't expect everyone to be able to do this. But before you send me a post, before you send me a question, just check to see if I have

already answered that question or responded to the post that you're sending me in my stories. Now, I don't expect everyone who follows me to see every single thing that I post or, you or to have followed me forever so you might not know if I have already answered a question that you are asking, that's fine. I'm not going to get frustrated with you. I'm not going to get mad at you. Anything like that.

I'm just saying it will save you a lot of time too if you just check my stories and check my highlights. Also, if you just search the subject that you're looking for along with the word relatable, wherever you listen to your podcast, so like relatable abortion, relatable, gender, then a bunch of my podcast episodes will come up. I'll try to come up with, I mean, we've done so, so many episodes on abortion. I think I've probably answered every question in existence about abortion and looked at it from a million different angles.

But I'll try to come up with maybe like the top five abortion episodes that we've done and like put it in the list so it's easily accessible for you. But that is one thing that you can do. All the questions to the Q&A that I did the other day are saved and an abortion highlight on my Instagram profile. make sure that you check that out. But this particular post that I'm about to talk about was sent to me several times. I did briefly respond to it on my story.

I shared a post of someone else. I think it's an account called Nurses for Freedom that tried to debunk this post. And I can put up a screenshot of it on YouTube. And it's a long message. So I won't read the whole thing. But it's basically someone posted this claiming that they were sent this message from a nurse who is an L&D nurse, a labor and delivery nurse who also works in the NICU ward. She said that she apparently, she lives in this state where a trigger law went into place.

A trigger law is a law that was kind of wading in the wings in these conservative states until Roe v. Wade was overturned that severely restricts or bans abortion except in the case of saving the mother's life and all that. So there are different exceptions to it depending on what state you live in. Anyway, this message included in this post from this alleged nurse said that she treated a patient who had an ectopic pregnancy. That is where the baby is growing in the fallopian tube, which is very dangerous. The baby cannot survive. The woman will die if it is not treated, if the baby is not removed from the fallopian tube.

And apparently it ruptured, the ectopic pregnancy ruptured. And the doctor on call says this alleged nurse couldn't do anything about it for nine hours because the doctor was on the phone with lawyers trying to figure out what the, what procedure is legal to try to take care of this woman. So a lot of people are posting this saying this is the consequence of overturning Roe v. Wade. This is the consequence of abortion restriction because these laws they're saying are so vague and they're so encompassing that they are actually. effecting treatment for miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies. So first of all, I have no idea if this is true. Like no one takes the time to fact check these things. You just kind of give in to your confirmation bias.

And if a post sounds like it's something that you will agree with or kind of bolsters the point that you want to make, then you'll share it. I mean, we've probably all done that. But we need to be really careful about that. I have gotten a lot more careful about that over the past several years because I have just found kind of like the damage that that can do. Let me pause for a second. This is just a little bit of a detour because I saw this last night.

There was a woman whose TikTok was being shared by conservatives as an example of demonic reaction to the overturning of Roe v. Wade. She was kind of screaming into the camera and she was saying, do you guys feel like stress or overwhelmed? Yeah, me too. I'm right there with you. And she's screaming.

I mean, she looks angry. It's kind of frightening. and conservatives in conservative media were sharing it. I didn't share it. Thank goodness. But they were sharing it. They were saying, this is demonic. This is a reaction to Roe v. Wade.

Well, it turns out that woman, she shared another video. And it was just heartbreaking. She was crying, saying that video that I posted on TikTok screaming and crying and overwhelmed had nothing to do with overturning Roe v. Wade. That was actually filmed several days before the Dobbs decision came out. something else that had to do with something else in my life. And she talked about how she's just a mom, how she helps her elderly parents out, how she helps drug acts get clean, that she's not a demon, that she's just a regular person. And I just thought, how awful is that? How awful is that?

She probably feels so out of control that conservatives somehow just like jumped on her reaction and then hoisted it up as an example of what they want to show is like the reaction. of a reaction to the overturning of Roe v. Wade is some kind of demonic activity. And look, there are a lot of demonic reactions from the left toward it, but that wasn't one. And now this poor lady, I mean, she hasn't had her life ruined,

but she's gotten a lot of threatening messages. She's gotten her face out there as some example of a demon. So it's really sad. So I know that was kind of a rabbit trail, but my point is that we have to be really careful about fact checking, that kind of stuff. we have to be really careful about asking questions.

Where did this come from? Where are the citations? How do I know this is true? I don't have any evidence of this, whether it's on the right or the left, because real people can be damaged by it. This particular post from this apparent nurse who experienced this, we have no way to actually verify it. So it's extremely irresponsible that there are people,

that there are celebrities that are sharing it without any substantiation or verification whatsoever just to affirm their bias, just to kind of satiate their confirmation bias, because you have no idea what doctors or nurses are looking at that post in thinking, wow, I am also scared to treat ectopic pregnancies because, wow, maybe I should spend nine hours on the phone with my lawyer, which, as I'm going to prove to you, is not legally necessary in any of the states that have these trigger laws or are pushing abortion restriction so people could actually die because of this propaganda and because of this misinformation because doctors and nurses are going to be unnecessarily fearful to do their jobs.

So that's the first point in all of this that I don't know if this post is actually true. There's no way for me to verify it. Second, some of you have also told me that this woman, this patient with the ectopic pregnancy would have been in the ER, not in labor and delivery. Third, if this is true, if it is true, it might be true. If it is true, it is the doctor and the hospital who are in the wrong here. Not the law. It is them who is wrong here.

Not the law. Many of you send me. Sharon says so's stories to respond to because her bias to the left has become increasingly obvious to me. It has been clear for a very long time. I mean, I used to try to like engage with her in like a very polite way. When she would post something that I questions about, I would just like send her polite messages. sometimes she would respond, sometimes she wouldn't respond. And then she blocked me when several months ago,

someone asked me in a Q&A on Instagram whether I thought that Sharon says so was biased, which, oh my gosh, again, a million people asked me that. And I used to just avoid it. I used to just not want to answer that question. But then finally I did. And I was so gentle and like soft and added so many caveats to my answer. But I said, look, I don't, you know, I don't think she's a communist or anything. But it seems to me that she lean center left and here's why. And I gave some examples of that. I was really nice about it. I didn't say not to follow her. I didn't, you know, call her a liar, anything like that. And she blocked me. But you guys still send me screenshots of her stories. I think that she has gotten more and more brazen, though, about her bias, which is fine. You can be a left-wing influencer,

but don't tell people that you're only posting facts that you are, that you're not posting your opinion. You can see someone's bias, not just in what they post, but in what they don't post. You can see it in how they describe things, the language that they use, the arguments that they give credence to, and the arguments that they kind of dismiss and minimize and patronize. And that, I mean, it's really obvious to me in how she talks about abortion and abortion law. You guys sent me a story in which she said that medically elective abortion and miscarriage treatment for ectopic pregnancies are the same thing. She said lay people, which is an interesting term to use there, but she said lay people distinguish between miscarriages and induced abortions, but medically they are considered the same

thing. I'm not trying to put words in her mouth or say something that she did not say, but I saw the post. She said medically they are considered the same thing. And that she also said that some of the abortion laws on the books are too vague and that could be problematic. That can actually be dangerous, implying that these abortion laws could affect the treatment of ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages. First of all, they're not medically the same thing. They're not medically the same thing. Miscarriages may be coded and billed as a spontaneous abortion. I think that's a horrible phrase.

And I know that women who have had miscarriages tell me just like the added trauma that they experience from seeing that on their insurance and in their medical charts, their miscarriage was coded and billed as a spontaneous abortion. But that does not have any bearing on scientifically, on medically, the difference between these experiences slash procedures. Every medical professional knows that elective abortion, the intentional killing of a baby in the womb, is different than a procedure to remove a baby who has already died naturally in the womb

and the removal of a baby in an ectopic pregnancy. There's no actual confusion about that among medical professionals. And the laws on the books right now, restricting abortion, are very clear about what is being banned and restricted. It doesn't take a whole lot of research to figure this out, just look at the text of the bills and laws online. And I'm going to read you some of the bills and some of the laws that are in place now in the states that are restricting or are banning abortion. They are actually pretty clear. And look, let me just say this also up front. If there was a law that restricted the treatment or banned the treatment,

affected the treatment of miscarriages or ectopic pregnancies, then I would 100% be against them. I would be allowed and opposed to them because I believe the mother's physical life is equal to the value of the baby's physical life. So I don't believe in intentionally sacrificing the mother's, physical life, I believe that if the mother's physical life, physical life, I'm not just talking about mental health, I'm not just talking about general well-being, I'm talking about her physical life is at risk, then the humane and compassionate option is to deliver the baby, is to remove the baby.

Now, I believe that all medical care should be used after the baby is removed from the womb to try to help them if they are pre-viability, then obviously we know that that baby isn't going to survive outside the womb, but to try to help that baby as much as possible, I do not believe that intentionally killing the baby while they're inside the womb is right, ever. But I do believe in the value of the woman's life. And I do believe there is a humane and compassionate way to treat and to help both the mother and the baby. I will be talking to an OBGYN who has verified this. There are many OBGYNs as life action has chronicled over the years who will say, who have said over and over again, it is not necessary to intentionally kill a child to save

a woman's life, to intentionally kill a child while they're in the womb, poison the child, dismember the child while they're in the womb in order to save a woman's life. Early delivery is the proper response to that. Either way, the baby has to come out, right? So you are either delivering a dead baby or a living baby. So anyway, I just wanted to make sure that we know that, that I am not denigrating. I am not decreasing it at all of the value of a mother's life. Now, let me read you some of the texts from these laws and from these bills that are in the states

and how specific they actually are and what is being restricted and what is being banned through these laws. They do not affect the treatment of ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages. All right. We'll start with Alabama. And I can't go through all of these states. I believe there's like 22 states, and the text is always long. These bills are always so verbose.

But I will read you some of them. Let me just summarize by saying that all of these laws with the trigger laws in place to restrict or ban abortion, or even the states that don't have trigger laws, but are planning like Virginia and Florida to more greatly restrict abortion in their state. They're specific about what they mean by abortion. So here's what Alabama says. This is what is being restricted. The use or prescription of any instrument, medicine, drug, or any other substance or device with the intent to terminate the pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with knowledge that the termination by those means will, with reasonable likelihood, cause the death of the unborn child.

So you see how they are bending over backwards to be so specific about this? This term does not include. They even go further. This term does not include these activities if done with the intent to save the life. or preserve the health of an unborn child, remove a dead unborn child to deliver the unborn child prematurely to avoid a serious health risk to the unborn child's mother or to preserve the health of her unborn child. The term does not include a procedure, a procedure or act to terminate the pregnancy of a woman with an ectopic pregnancy, nor does it include the procedure or act

to terminate the pregnancy of a woman when the unborn child has a lethal anomaly. So they actually have an exception here that if the child has a lethal anomaly, if they have some kind of disability that is going to cause them to die after birth, then Alabama says you can get an abortion. Now, I think that's wrong. I don't think that a person's disability in or outside of the wound is a good justification for purposely killing them. I believe, again, that's a compassionate option. There is early delivery. You try to help the child as much as you possibly can, but you don't murder that child because they have some kind of anomaly. But that is. is the law in Alabama. So they give exceptions there. They give specific definitions that this does not

cover ectopic pregnancies. This does not cover miscarriage management. So people who are saying, all these laws are too vague, well, you make them point you to the exact law and why it's too vague. So Arizona. Also, abortion does not include the law says birth control devices, oral contraceptives used to inhibit or prevent ovulation conception or the implantation of a fertilized ovum in the uterus, or the use of any means to save the life or preserve the health of the unborn child to preserve the or health of the child after a live birth, to terminate an ectopic pregnancy or to remove a dead fetish. So again, ectopic pregnancy and miscarriage management, not included in their restriction on abortion. Florida says abortion means the termination of a human pregnancy with an intention other than

to produce a live birth or to remove a dead fetus. Georgia says that abortion means the act of using prescribing or administering any instrument, substance, device, or other means with the purpose to terminate a pregnancy with the knowledge that termination will cause the death of an unborn child. So some people are saying, oh, well, the medicine that is used for to expel the baby in a miscarriage is the same medicine that is used in a first trimester abortion. So that is now going to be restricted. No, you'll see in these definitions that the purpose, that the intent of the procedure matters.

It's not just the medicine that is being used. Georgia also specifically says that this does not include removing a dead or unborn child caused by spontaneous abortion or removing an ectopic pregnancy. Idaho says that this is abortion is the use of any prescription or instrument to intentionally kill an unborn human being. Indiana says that abortion means the termination of a human pregnancy with an intention other than to produce a live birth or remove a dead fetus. The term includes abortions by surgical procedures and by abortion inducing drugs. Kentucky. Abortion means the use of any means whatsoever to terminate a pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with intent to cause fetal death. Louisiana says the same thing.

says that this does not cover a spontaneous miscarriage or this does not cover the treatment of ectopic pregnancy. That is what the Louisiana law says. The Mississippi law says that abortion means the use or prescription of any instrument medicine drug or any other substance or device to terminate the pregnancy of a woman known to be pregnant with an intention other than to increase the probability of a live birth to preserve the life or health of the child after live birth or to remove a dead fetus. That's Mississippi. Missouri says the same thing. It does not affect miscarriage care or, it doesn't not affect miscarriage care or ectopic pregnancy removal. Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas. Texas specifically says this, the term

abortion does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child or remove a dead unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion or remove an ectopic pregnancy. Now, if some of your criticism in, for example, like the Florida law or some of these other laws that doesn't specifically say ectopic pregnancy, then you can call your legislator and you can say you need to add this term, ectopic pregnancy, just for the sake of clarity. But again, their definitions are very clear and very specific. Utah also is very specific.

Says that abortion does not include the removal of a dead unborn child or removal of an ectopic pregnancy. West Virginia says the same thing. Wisconsin says the same thing. Wyoming says the same thing. So again, when someone says that ectopic pregnancy care and miscarriage care that they are going to be affected by these laws, you make them cite that. You make them cite the specific line. in the specific law and the specific state that says that ectopic pregnancies and miscarriages will not be taken care of. And if these stories that are going around are actually true, which again, I have my doubts that they're true, that these women are not being cared for because they have ectopic pregnancies. That is not the fault of the law. The fault lies with the

hospitals. The fault may lie with the insurance companies in their misunderstanding of what's going on, perhaps or just their dereliction of duty here. I mean, I've also heard from several of you who are nurses who live in red states who have had women come in with miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies and have been completely cared for without any bumps in the road at all. So understand that this is a massive propaganda push that the powers that be know that a lot of people who are against abortion are obviously for women who have miscarriages and ectopic pregnancies being cared for. So if they can convince you that restricting the intentional killing of children somehow also includes restricting caring for women who are suffering from these diagnoses or suffering from these

experiences, then they can get you to say that you're pro-choice. They can get you to vote Democrat. But it's a lie. It's a huge propaganda push. It's a huge propaganda push. I'm not even sure, again, that this is something that is actually happening across the board in hospitals. and if it is, it is not the fault of laws that say you can't intentionally kill an unborn child, except in a lot of cases in these states, they do even have exceptions to that rule. Another thing that I think is strange about all of these stories, about all of these doctors suddenly not knowing how to deal with abortion restrictions, is that doctors in almost every state have always had to deal with some kind of abortion restriction.

like doctors around the world have had to deal with the life of the mother restriction at some point in the pregnancy of the woman everywhere and yet they knew how to deal with these situations without calling lawyers so you're telling me that conveniently right now hospitals have no idea how to deal with limits on abortion come on like let's just again think a little bit critically about this now i want to talk about the very disappointing christian reaction to all of this especially in the the evangelical world, they are adding to the noise and the chaos and confusion rather than adding clarity and love, which is to be expected from a lot of these people, because it's exactly what they did in June of 2020, rather than taking on biblical definitions of justice, biblical definitions of love and hate. They just adopted worldly talking points about racism, systemic racism, inequality, inequity. They just repeated what the world said about things like white supremacy and white privilege, rather than actually consulting and repeating what the word of God says about these things.

So these people are used to adding chaos and noise to situations rather than clarity. And I believe that these kind of evangelicals are doing the same thing right now. So I know that many of you have been really disappointed because a lot of your favorite evangelical teachers who talk to you about social justice and caring for the marginalized and being a voice for the voiceless and speaking truth of power who for the past few years. have been talking about the evils of Donald Trump and the white supremacist fascist force that's behind him, who have had a lot to say about different political and social issues over the past few years, even when they have been dead wrong.

They have been completely confident in the commentary that they have offered to the political sphere, whether it's about what's going on at the border, whether it's about so-called racial and social justice and allegations of police brutality, that story that went around, that Border Patrol was whipping Haitian migrants at the border, which was completely wrong. You'll remember, I think it was back in 2019, the March for Life when Nick Sandman was standing there smiling.

That's like the, I think he was like 16, 15 or 16, the high schooler that was at the March for Life. And he was just standing, smiling in front of this Native American man who was beating his drum. And then there were all these black, black Hebrew Israelites surrounding them saying expletives. But for whatever reason, like the guy that people were so focused on and so angry at was this 15-year-old kid who was literally just standing there smiling.

And I remember Bath Moore, like she was so incensed by this. She was so angry about this. She tweeted about Nick Sandman, who by the way has been completely vindicated. Like he won a lawsuit against CNN. And I think another outlet. because they just lied about him. Like, they called him racist. They said that he was, like, antagonizing this man when that wasn't true at all.

Like, he was literally just standing there. He wasn't antagonizing or doing anything wrong. So Beth Moore was so incensed by this kid standing there smiling that she tweeted. So this is January 19th of that year saying to glee and dehumanizing any person is so utterly antichrist. It reeks of the vomit of hell. Wow. Wow.

Really? About this 15. year old kid, like standing there smiling? And she also tweeted, while she was responding to someone, agreed, but I cannot shake the terror of adolescents already indoctrinated enough to hate and hate and disrespect to smile that chillingly.

Oh my gosh. Like, is this a Stephen King novel? And jeer without shame or fear of God. Uncurbed, this utter glee into humanizing is what humanitarian horrors were made of. what? Okay, to be perfectly fair, she did delete these tweets and she said that she didn't have like the full context, which, okay, that's great. We've all tweeted things that we, that we regret saying, we've all made mistakes and things that we say, all right, I've been there. That's fine. However,

however, like she had that much passion and was that hasty and was that ready to tear down a 15-year-old boy based on a decontextualized clip that she knew nothing about. She didn't wait at all to comment on it. And yet, I have not heard anything from her about the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Now, I'm not questioning whether or not she likes abortion. I don't think that she does. I'm sure that in principle, she is anti-abortion.

But the fact of the matter is, is that evangelicals in this kind of world, you know, Russell Moore, what people kind of talk about as like, Big Eva, they have gained a lot of street cred with progressives over the past few years and their criticism of Donald Trump and their criticism of anything and everything the right wing does and says that they, of course, are going to be more hasty and they're going to be more ready to jump on a left-wing narrative of something than join hands with conservative Christians who are celebrating the overturning of the most, one of the most, if not the most, unjust. Supreme Court decisions, Roe v. Wade, in all of American history.

So that is part of my beef here, is that a lot of these evangelicals, you know the ones who have said nothing about this or who are making a point to say to like, they're making posts and videos saying that they're not going to make a post in video giving a response to the overturning of Roe v. Wade. They are making posts and videos saying, I'm not going to, you know, I'm going to live my real life. I've got real people that I am, that I'm living life with and, you know, wrestling with these issues with. And I don't, I'm not obligated. I'm not responsible to give you a response to this political thing on social media.

Meanwhile, they are literally putting so much time and energy in so many words into telling you why they are not going to comment on the thing that they are actually now commenting on by saying, that they're not going to comment. Like, you're commenting about you're not commenting is actually commentary. And you have commented on like every other social and political issue for the past few years. Like you've accused people of white supremacy and racism who simply disagree with you on the issue of like policing and what social and racial justice and equity and equality actually look like. But now this issue, the literal murder of babies is too nuanced and too complicated and too

difficult and too divisive for you to touch. Like, this is actually a lot more clear than the issue of racism. That's much more, like, that is a much more nuanced conversation about what that actually looks like, what that looks like institutionally, what outcomes are products of discrimination and what outcomes are not a product of discrimination. Like, that's a much more complex, uh, conversation than the murder of children. I mean, that's very black and white. You shall not murder is really, really clear. That includes babies inside the womb that Christians know are made in the image of God. And yet, these evangelicals who call themselves, you know, social justice advocates who really say that they care about the poor and the marginalized, they cannot bring themselves to just have a clear stance on abortion.

You are not obligated as a Christian, influencer, author, whatever, to comment on every political issue, to comment on every headline, to comment on every news story. That's absolutely true. You're not obligated to do that. You are not accountable to the people on social media. You should have real-life community where you are talking about these things. It's absolutely true. But A, if you've talked about every other thing because you know certain stories are an opportunity to push a progressive headline, whether it's about immigration or racism or

whatever it is, and you're not willing to comment on this, you just need to admit that it's because you're progressive, like you're a partisan. Don't say that you're not commenting on the overruling of Roe v. Wade, because you're just above it all. And you're just not, you're just, you're just nuanced. And you're just so thoughtful and you're just trying not to get down to the muck and the mire of it. Look, you are making videos and comments talking about how you're not going to talk about it. You're in the muck and the mire.

Just say that you don't agree with overruling Roe v. Wade because you're a progressive and you don't really know how you stand or how you feel about abortion. Like that's, that's it. So that's one option here. The other option is that these people are really just. cowards. Like they are against abortion, but they're not willing to say anything about this because they know that the backlash is much harsher from the left than it is from the right. And they want the approval of the mainstream left more than they care about the approval of conservatives. Now, they want that white conservative dollar. That is for sure. Like white conservatives

still are like hoisting up a lot of these evangelical leaders who are progressive and who always say progressive things on politics and on culture. But at the end of the day, they may want one of the reasons for the silence and the just milk toast responses to Roe v. Wade by these Christians could also just be because they are scared. They want acceptance from the mainstream. And they understand that the progressive backlash to conservative opinions is much more consequential and much harsher. I see this from some of my friends. I've got a friend. We disagree on a lot of big stuff. He is a gay liberal. And he said something to me. One day he said an opinion that went against liberal orthodoxy, something that most liberals would really disagree with and have a problem with.

And he admitted to me that he could never tweet that. Now, he tweets things all the time that he knows would make conservatives angry, but he's not going to tweet this one thing that he knows will make liberals angry. Everyone knows where the true mob is. Like everyone knows where the institutional power is. Everyone knows who the mainstream is. And a lot of Christians who claim to be a political, who claim to be nonpartisan, really want to be liked by secular progressives. And so they'll tow the line. They'll straddle the fence on a lot of things, including when it comes to abortion. Now, they're going to be completely unnuanced and completely unthoughtful. undiscerning when it comes to issues like so-called like alleged racism that they know the world

is going to agree with. But when it comes again to the literal murder of babies, all the sudden, well, we just don't know if we should be celebrating this. We just don't know if we need to say anything clear about this. We just don't know if we need to put out there that, hey, praise God. in many states, children are going to have their dignity enshrined into law, and thousands upon thousands of babies are going to be saved because of this law. Thank God. They can't say that. Instead, they have to put so much energy into excusing themselves for their lack of clarity

and courage on this issue. Another thing that I'm seeing with a lot of these, like, so-called womb to tomb evangelicals, so there's like one group that will actually celebrate. So great. They'll say, like, this is a good thing. I'm happy about this. This is justice. But they will temper that celebration with, well, now we really need to make sure that we're taking care of women and children.

And then you've got another group who's not celebrating it, the group that I was kind of just ranting about, not celebrating it. They won't say whether or not they think it's a good thing that Roe v. Wait is overturned. Have they even read the Dobbs decision? I have my doubts. But they will say, well, you know, I can't celebrate it because what are we doing for women? What are we doing? What are we doing for women?

Well, why we really need to make sure that we are caring for women so we don't need to focus so much on abortion when, wow, we really need to be caring for the poor. What are we doing for them? What are you doing for them? Pro-lifers have been working with these women, have been serving these women, have been helping these women, have been loving these women, have been pouring their time and their energy and their dollars into these women's lives into helping them before, during, and after birth of their children. children. They have been donating. They have been building these pro-life pregnancy centers. They have been counseling both pre-birth and after-birth and after abortion as well. They have been offering parenting classes. They have been donating free baby items. They have been helping with immigration help. They've been helping with Medicaid enrollment. They've been helping with free health care

services like pregnancy tests, like STD testing, like free sonograms, giving them prenatal vitamins. If you don't know, if you are a professing Christian who says you can't celebrate the overturning of Roe v. Way, which led to the slaughter of over 60 million babies. You're saying you can't celebrate that because Christians really need to start helping these women who are in need rather than only focusing on abortion. that tells me you have not lifted a finger for them. That tells me you're lazy, that you have been sitting on the couch

and you haven't even taken the effort to type on your computer to see if maybe there are organizations in your area who are already helping these women. I don't want your finger wagging until you have gone to your local pro-life pregnancy center and you have seen how you can help or you've at least taken a tour

to see the Christian women who have been pouring their lives and pouring their energies into women who are in crisis, families who are in crisis for decades, I do not want to hear your chiding towards pro-life Christians saying that we need to be doing more for women. You have no idea what we have been doing for women. You have no idea. And if you still have no idea at this point, that is a choice that you have made.

Because there are thousands of pro-life pregnancy centers that exist that have been doing all of the things that you're saying that Christians need to do before they can celebrate the overturning of Roe v. Wade. So if you're worried about a deficit of compassion in Christians towards these vulnerable women, then you need to get up off your couch and you need to get off Instagram. You need to go out your door in your car, drive down the road, go to your pro-life pregnancy center and say, what do you do and how can I help? Okay. So no more finger wagging, no more nagging, no more fake self-righteousness from those of you who are saying, oh, I just don't know how I feel about the abortion issue. I don't know how I feel about Roe v. Wade because we really need

to do more to help the poor. No, you need to do more to help the poor. Don't assume that the rest of us aren't doing it. Those of us who are pro-life have been putting our money and our time and our energy where our mouth is for a very long time. The fact that you have it is your problem. Take that up with God. Don't encourage the rest of us to do so when we already have. And also, another excuse that I keep hearing from professing Christians who say, well, I just, you know, there just needs to be more programs. There needs to be more programs

before we talk about abortion. It is not, I've said this a million times, it is not more compassionate to vote for politicians who promise to take money from people who are richer than you and give it to people who are poorer than you.

So you don't have to get off the cash and put your own skin in the game. That's not more compassionate than the woman who is waking up every morning or every weekend to actually go to these pregnancy centers and spend their own time and their own money and their own efforts to help these women. You are not more compassionate simply because you believe in distributing tax dollars to poor people. You are not more compassionate for that than that.

the person who is actually donating out of their own pocket and out of their own time and their own energy. You're not. You are not more compassionate for supporting largely ineffective and inefficient government programs than the person who says, you know what, I'm going to do something about this myself. There are Christians who have decided in compassion and love that they are not going to delegate the responsibility that God has given the church to the government. That is compassion, that is love. Now, that's not to say the government has no role. That's not to say that there is no place for government help.

I think that there are ways that the government can incentivize fatherhood, present families, intact families. I'm not against that. I think that we should use whatever is constitutionally available to us to help support families and help them stay together and help families who are in crisis and ensure that they have a place to live, that they have a place to work, that they can start providing for themselves. But do not tell me that I just have to vote for politicians who want to expand the power of the government and that that counts as love and compassion.

That's laziness. Come on. That's, again, delegating the responsibility God has given to you as an individual, you as a Christian, to the government who, surprise, surprise, doesn't actually care. about the people that they say that they care about. And you're telling me that in order to be truly compassionate and truly pro-life, I have to vote for a Democrat politician who believes in subsidizing abortion through all nine months of pregnancy. No, thanks. No. Come on. Come on. The pro-choice, pro-abortion side is backed by the so-called Church of Satan, is backed by every demonic,

satanic, secular force that exists on earth. And you're telling me this is a nuanced issue. thing about the evangelicals who are willing to say this is a great thing, but they're caveating it, they're tempering it immediately with saying, well, we need to be doing X, Y, Z for women, as if pro-lifers haven't been doing that for years, is that they would not be caveating posts about racism or posts about alleged police brutality. I mean, we saw that two years ago. They're not going to caveat that. They're not going to make sure that people who are racist or who used to be racist, that their feelings aren't hurt by them condemning racism. And yet, I've seen a lot of people saying that they don't want to celebrate or they're

too scared to just kind of be triumphant about the overturning of Roe v. Wade because there are women who have had abortions. Would you offer the same kind of gentleness towards people who used to be racist? Like, are you going to caveat your condemnation of racism in white supremacy just because there are people who follow you that maybe are or used to be raised? Of course not. Of course not. So it's just strange how like we treat this, the literal murder of children with kid gloves. It seems like, and that's not to say we shouldn't be completely gracious and offer the redemption and forgiveness of Christ. You have no idea how many conversations I have had with post-abortive wisdom and getting to share the grace of God and the love of the gospel. The power and

redemptive work of Jesus Christ with him has been one of the joys of my life. That does not mean that I am going to soften my stance on abortion or try to temper my celebration about the overruling of Roe v. Wade at all. Go back to yesterday. Listen to what happens in an abortion. I've talked about what happens in an abortion many times. I've read abortionist words of how they perform abortions. Go look at my Instagram story right now and look at the body of a baby, probably second or third trimester who was recently aborted in Washington, D.C. That is a human being, that is a child, that is being violently murdered inside the womb. And you're telling me that you can't have a clear stance on that.

You have a clear stance on everything else when it comes to politics. But this is the one thing that's just too much for you. Come on. Be honest. You're either progressive partisan. You're actually not that perturbed by abortion. or the legality of abortion, or you are just cowardly about this. Now, if you are someone who you don't ever, I'm not talking to everyone,

I'm not saying that everyone has to post on social media. That's not everyone's role. That's not everyone's job. Maybe you're someone who you're like, you know what, that's just not how I want to use social media. You don't talk about politics. You don't talk about social issues. Now, I think it'd be awesome if every Christian use their platform to talk about that.

I do. I think that would be amazing. I mean, you see all kinds of people on the left who don't typically talk about politics, influencers, whatever, posting their pro-abortion propaganda. It would be great to have some light on social media and a lot more people standing up and speaking out about the dignity and importance of protecting children inside the womb. But my criticism is not towards like the average individual who just doesn't want to get into it on social media. Maybe you really are having these conversations in real life and you're dedicating a lot of your time and your energy to these pregnancies.

centers. I'm not saying that you have to post on social media and that you are cowardly or that you are partisan if you're not. I'm specifically talking about Christian influencers who regularly talk about politics and social stuff. And now, like, they are so watering down their position on abortion, they're so refusing to talk about it. And they are claiming like a sense of self-righteousness and detachment from politics in order to justify. that like I mean I'm thinking about a particular a particular person and the name really doesn't matter because it's representative of the attitude of like a lot of different evangelicals in this in this realm who is acting like her reason not to talk about it is because oh well you know American politics there is so stupid people are so addicted to outrage people are so addicted to controversy but me me I'm paraphrasing here but me I'm just to, you know, I'm above it. I'm above all that. And I don't have to, I don't have to talk about it as, by the way, she was talking about her, not talking about it. And then gets very defensive when

people push back. This is a pattern by this person. And then also like accusing other people constantly of being like bitter, of being angry of being, you know, of waiting in a controversy. This person to me comes across as like as very bitter and very angry and defensive. a lot and annoyed constantly at people who disagree with her. And yeah, it's constantly accusing the people who disagree with her of being angry. So there's a lot of that in like those evangelical circles. We don't have to agree on everything. Like maybe there are some disagreements that we have here. And you don't have to say everything the same way as an evangelical when it comes to these things. But look, if you say that your pro-life, womb to tomb, don't be light on the womb. Okay. And by

the way, I don't even like agree with that. All of the other things that they say that, oh, uh, immigration is a pro life issue. Death penalty is a pro life issue. No, it's not. That's an immigration issue. That's a death penalty issue. Those actually aren't as clear. Um, and they do have some kind of political nuances to those things. Like you don't just get to lump in every progressive issue into the umbrella of pro life. I mean, I am anti-abortion. You don't have the authority, by the way, to define what it means to be truly pro-life if you believe in the legality of the dismemberment of babies inside the womb. You got to start there. That is like, that is baseline for what it means to be pro-life.

If you can't even start there, I don't really want to hear your opinion about the death penalty and how you think transphobia is a pro-life issue. Come on. The same God who said that he made us male and female also told us not to murder. And by the way, just bonus Genesis 9-6 before the establishment of Israel also said, that the only just punishment for murdering someone is the death penalty. So again, it's wrong to say that you can't be pro death penalty for murderers and be pro life. Of course you can.

They're actually totally consistent because you believe in the value of innocent life in both cases. But I've talked about that many times before. We can link past episodes on that. So that's my whole spiel. I got a couple more things to say. All right. So that's really all I have to say.

about that. We've got a big interview coming up on Thursday that I'm super excited about. This is a journalist. She's a feminist journalist. We don't agree on a lot of things. But she has been covering the tentacles of the transgender movement, the money that's behind it, the people that's behind it, the organizations, the politicians that are behind it, the people in power who are behind it, who are underneath it, who are pushing it, who are funding it, who are pushing hormone therapy for young people. She has been studying this, examining and investigating this for a long time. I think it's really important that we blow the lid off of what is really going on here

and what is the ideology and what are they truly trying to accomplish? Where does it come from? Why is it so dangerous? And so I've been dying to talk to her forever and I'm super excited to get to do that. So make sure that you tune into that as well. We have a lot of good episodes coming up. Like I said, if you haven't listened to yesterday's, go do that. It'll provide you with a lot of armor and arguments, hopefully, for everything that you're

seen on social media. Let me know what you want me to talk about tomorrow. I don't think I have tomorrow's show planned yet. So I'm open to your suggestions on Instagram DM. If you love this podcast, it would mean a lot to us if you give us a five-star review. Wherever you listen, also subscribe on YouTube if you haven't already done that. Also, we have amazing merch. We've got more coming.

If you are watching on YouTube, I really need another sticker. But I've got my Razor Respectful Ruckus sticker. That's one thing that we said. I've got my politics matter because policy matters because people matter. Everything we've talked about in the past few days is a really good indication and evidence of that. I also have a be a salmon. So when you see all of your dumb friends, sorry, all of your uninformed friends on social media, spreading pro-abortion propaganda without having any critical thought,

then you can be a salmon and you can swim the other direction, swim upstream. And then I also have my very important and very profound sticker there in the middle, millennials against low-rise genes because we are still against low-rise genes. That is our single issue. That is the hill that we're going to die on. All right. That's all I've got for you today. And I will see you back here tomorrow.

Hey, this is Steve Dase. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand. understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

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