Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 642 | DEBATE: Is Public School 'Grooming' a Conspiracy Theory? | Guest: Dr. Scott Coley

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Today we're talking about a few things going around the news, and at the end of the episode we have a debate with Dr. Scott Coley, a professor of philosophy at Mount St. Mary's University, about whether kids are really being "groomed" by their teachers, a concern raised by many on the Right after seeing the sexually explicit material that's being taught in some schools. Before that, we react to a liberal professor dodging questions from Republican lawmakers who were trying to pin down her views on what a woman is and whether or not life in the womb has value. --- Timecodes: (0:00) Introduction (7:05) Responding to moments from the Senate Judiciary Committee hearing on a post-Roe world (19:30) What's happening in some public schools around the country? (23:08) Conversation with Dr. Scott Coley --- Today's Sponsors: Genucel - go to Genucel.com/ALLIE & enter promo code 'ALLIE' for an extra discount at checkout, plus every order includes Genucel's new Dark Spot Corrector! Good Ranchers — go to GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE & use promo code 'ALLIE' to get $30 off your order of 100% American meat! Carly Jean Los Angeles — visit CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com & use promo code "ALLIEBASIC' to save 20% off your first order of USA-made basics! Moms for Liberty — join an army of moms who are joyful warriors fighting for the survival of America at MomsForLiberty.org/ALLIE! --- Show Links: 'Pro-Choice' is Pro-Abortion | Rep. Hice Questions Allie Stuckey at Congressional Hearing: https://bit.ly/3uKpEhB 'If Companies Took Grooming As Seriously As Racism' - Allie's satire: https://bit.ly/3IBJ51I --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise- use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com slash Alley. That's good ranchers.com slash Alley.

I was kind of laughing during that opening, but that's because that was my second take of the opening. as many times as I have done a good ranchers ad, as many times as I've opened the show saying this episode is brought to you by Good Ranchers, I somehow messed it up. I like messed up the link and said good ranchers. And the reason is because I can see myself in this monitor in front of me and I had a hair sticking out. So I was trying to multitask.

It didn't work. So I had to start over and I was still kind of laughing about that. Anywho, I hope that you guys are having a great day and a great week. We've got a great episode for you today. I am talking to Professor Scott Coley at the end of this episode. We've got some things to talk about first. But he is a professor of philosophy at Mount St. Mary's University. And he is currently working on a book about the ideology of what he calls the religious

right. It's titled Ministers of Propaganda, Truth, Power, and the ideology of the religious rights. So you can probably deduce by the title of the book that he is. working on that we do not agree. The reason that I'm talking to him is because we had a disagreement all the way back at the beginning of April. When I did the satirical video slash satirical thread about anti-grooming and how it's not enough to be not a groomer, you have to be actively anti-grooming. And I kind of made this satirical comparison between what is spouted by

the left about anti-racism and systemic racism. racism, which of course I've talked about my disagreements with that entire like concept and narrative at length on this podcast, but comparing it to what we are talking about on the right about this problem of pervasive, ideological gender grooming that is going on, particularly in our public education system. Well documented. Not only if you listen to this show, if you into really any conservative show. Also, if you follow Barry Weiss or Abigail Schreier or lips of TikTok, I mean, you're seeing this kind of stuff come out all of the time. Unfortunately, these parents going to school boards and reading the curriculum and the books that are being

presented to their elementary and middle schoolers about not just transitioning gender, but also things like anal sex and oral sex and, I mean, just awful, awful stuff without the knowledge and the consent of the parents. And so, of course, this is a real problem. However, Professor Scott Coley, he did a tweet thread and he criticized people who are kind of making the satirical comparison between critical race theory or being anti-racist and anti-groomer. And one of the things he said that I really took issue with is he said, firstly, the whole grooming conspiracy that's being advanced by the political right in cooperation with the religious right. I'm sure that I fall into those categories, according to him, is an appropriation of an anti-sacist.

Semitic trope that Christ followers should have nothing to do with. It's not fodder for an insipid metaphor. So I obviously have a problem with that point that's being made. And that is what I am going to discuss with him today. I'm very thankful that as someone who disagrees with me, he was willing to take the time to come on my show. He's also been very flexible, very adaptable, because we've had to reschedule quite a few times since May. And so I really appreciate that. I appreciate the calm and the collective conversation that we have, but we do disagree.

And so tune in for that debate discussion at the end of that. At the end of this, it's a good one. Before we get into that conversation, I do want to talk about some of the things that we're seeing in public schools. But first, I want to react to a hearing that. That was conducted yesterday in the Senate Judiciary Committee. The hearing was titled Postro America, the legal consequences of the Dobbs decision. So different committees in both the House and the Senate will host these kinds of hearings,

and both Republicans and Democrats will call their witnesses to kind of contend for their side. And then the representatives or the senators will ask the witnesses, both their witnesses and the, the other side's witnesses, different questions to, it's typically kind of to, not really to try to trap them, but really the point that the senators and representatives have in questioning the other side's witnesses are typically to like make their own point. I've been a part of one of these hearings in 2019 about abortion in the House of Representatives. So I kind of know how these go. And Senator Hawley used this opportunity, I think, at a very productive way to question one of the witnesses that was brought on by the Democrats. Her name is

Kiera M. Bridges. She's a professor of law at the UC Berkeley School of Law to ask her, why is she using this strange phrase people with the capacity for pregnancy and her response to this? And then his subsequent response, it's just stunning. And it shows us exactly the crazy place that we are as a country. And I'll react to that. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and

reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

All right. Let me play you this exchange between Senator Josh Hawley, Republican from Missouri and this UC Berkeley School of Law professor. Professor Bridges, you said several times you've used a phrase, I want to make sure I understand what you mean by it. You've referred to people with a capacity for pregnancy. Would that be women? Many women, cis women have the capacity for pregnancy. Many cis women do not have the capacity for pregnancy. There are also trans men who are capable of pregnancy,

as well as non-binary people who are capable of pregnancy. So this isn't really a women's rights issue. We can recognize that this impacts women while also recognizing that it impacts other groups. Those things are not mutually exclusive, Senator Hawley. Oh, so your view is that the core of the this right then is about what? So I want to recognize that your line of questioning

is transphobic and it opens up trans people to violence by not recognizing that. Wow, you're saying that I'm opening up people to violence by asking whether or not women are the folks who can have pregnancies? So I want to note that one out of five transgender persons have attempted suicide. So I think it's important.

Because of my line of questioning? Because we can't talk about it? Because denying that trans people like exist and pretending not to know that they exist is dangerous. I'm denying that trans people exist by asking you if you're talking about women having pregnancies. Do you believe that men can get pregnant? No, I don't think they're going to be pregnant. So you are denying that trans people exist?

And that leads to violence? Is this how you run your classroom? Are students allowed to question you? Absolutely. Or are they also treated like this? No, no, they're told that they're opening up people to violence by questioning. Oh, we have a good time in my class. You should join.

I bet. You might learn a lot. I've learned a lot just in this exchange. I know. Absolutely. Extraordinary. Oh my gosh. She is the exact attitude that progressive activists and politicians love. Just like you can just see it in her eyes, how angry she is and how just like sarcastic and entitled she truly seems to be. And so obviously this is ridiculous for a number of reasons. I don't have to tell my, I don't have to tell my audience why this is ridiculous. But I mean, I guess I will. The fact that we have.

a law professor at UC Berkeley. Now, UC Berkeley is extremely far left. I spoke there back in 2019. No, 2018. Fall of 2018. Crazyest speaking experience I've ever had. I've spoken at a lot of places. Some more hostile than others. Most places, though, I will say, whether they have progressive or conservative students have been pretty polite and they've asked questions and disagreed and that's been fine. That was not the case at UC Berkeley. I know this is just an aside. But as I was speaking, I actually thought that I was giving a very, like, middle of the road presentation. I was asked by this professor to come in and talk about, like, the differences between the right and the left and just describing from my perspective the different priorities

of the Republican Democrat Party. I actually thought that I was being very fair. And as I was talking, I was getting screamed at by these students. It's like they had never heard someone to the right of Bernie Sanders. This was also during the whole Kavanaugh debacle. And when I was asked like why I would support like Kavanaugh or how I could support like someone like him being a Supreme Court justice. And I said something along the lines of we have no idea if Christine and Blazy Ford is telling you the truth. I mean they lost it. One of like the greatest moments was this girl was screaming like a banshee and she stood up and she was like, yeah, I have a question. And she just went on and on and on and on and on and on. And I just paused and

I looked at her. I said, do you have a question? And she, uh, uh, and she just flustered and she sat down and then the professor got on to her and was like, you have to have a question. You can't just like want to hear yourself talk. My husband was also in the audience and he still has a picture of like his heart rate monitor on his watch that he was wearing at the time. It was like, I mean, his heart was beating like 100 beats per minute. It was very stressful. So anyway, I'm not surprised at all that someone like this who is this detached from reality

is teaching at UC Berkeley. But think about like all of the hundreds of students that, are under her tutelage who are now going to be carrying on these ideas. I think that Senator Holly made a really good point when he said, oh, is this how you treat your classroom? That if someone is questioning anything that they are perpetuating violence, of course, that's probably, that's how she conducts her classroom. And that is, of course, how progressivism thinks. If you go outside of what they assert is true, no matter how absurd it is, like the idea that men can get pregnant or that there is even such a thing as so-called trans men, then you are causing violence. That's how they manipulate you.

That's how they extort you, that you are not even allowed to suggest that maybe two plus two always makes four without threatening the safety and the survival of the number five. I mean, that's how ridiculous it is. And that's, of course, what she's doing. And it's scary that this kind of ideology is so pervasive in academia in the United States and it's making its way into the law. We've already seen the manifestations of that, of course, especially when we talk about, for example, like men being able to infiltrate women's prisons just by identifying as a woman and then raping and assaulting the actual women who are in women's prisons. That is where this kind of line of thinking goes, especially when it comes to the law. And it should be no

surprise is Christopher Rufo also uncovered that this person has written work about the legitimacy of critical race theory, which also is extremely consequential and disturbing when you're thinking about the rule of law. Like if you've read introduction to critical race theory or critical race theory and introduction by Richard Delgado, you will see what the consequences are of the ideas of critical race theory characterizing our law and our justice system. You're talking about a form of so-called reverse discrimination against people who are not seen as marginalized, which is not actually justice because it's not impartial in order to try to create equal outcomes. It always leads to a new form of oppression, as Thomas Soul has talked about many

times. Anyway, this person is very dangerous. This person has such an attitude, which is why all the Democrats are applauding her and think that she is great. And of course, you are not allowed to even question what she says is the new definition of reality without being someone who is perpetuating violence. Look, you're going to be bullied in the exact same way. You are going to be accused of promoting all kinds of terrible things against people who. identify as the opposite gender of what they are by simply speaking truth, you have to speak truth anyway. Two and two will always be four. It's not just about what is physically true, what is scientifically true. It is also about the implications and the manifestations of this kind

of ideology when it comes to fairness and privacy and rights and protection of women and girls. Men will never be able to become women. Women will never be able to become men. You can change your pronouns, you can get surgery, you can declare and identify as whatever you want to that will not change physical reality. And physical reality really matters. And it should certainly be reflected in the law. Good for Senator Holly for bringing this up and highlighting this. And then we've also got this crazy exchange between Senator Cornyn and this witness. Here's that. Do you think a baby that is delivered alive has value? Yes.

Do you think of a baby that is not yet born has value? I believe that a person with a capacity for pregnancy has value. They have intelligence. They have agency. I'm talking about the baby. And I'm talking about the person with a capacity for pregnancy. And you're not answering the question. I'm asking you.

I'm answering a more interesting question to me. think that a baby that is not yet born, let's say the day before those mother delivers, do you think that baby has value? I think that the person with the capacity for pregnancy has value and they should have the ability to control what happens to their lives. So the answer is no. The answer is no. I mean, we can just, we can disregard the person with the capacity for pregnancy. Like, oh my gosh, that kind of newspeak is so ridiculous. Like, we can't even just say the word that we all know is the only word to describe what a person with the capacity for pregnancy is.

We have to use like five words to convey one idea that it has been known in all cultures throughout all of human history because we are stupid. As a society, our smartest and most credentialed people are the dumbest people in society. We live in a cake ofocracy. If you don't know what that is, look it up. So she doesn't believe that the human being inside the womb has value, even if it's at 40 weeks of pregnancy, because she's saying, okay, well, the woman, the woman is the person that has value.

What she is obviously implying in the interesting question that she is answering is that she believes that abortion should be allowed through all nine months of pregnancy for any reason because the woman who is pregnant wants to because her value, I guess for some reason that she doesn't ever actually logically or philosophically explain has more value than the baby inside the womb. Why? Because of location? Like because of size. Why? Because it's attached by an umbilical cord. Those are all very arbitrary reasons to say that it is. is okay to kill a child. And it's in a very arbitrary reason to say that that child doesn't have as much value as the grown adult. Does a toddler not as have as much value or as much of a right to live as a teenager? If not, if you think that's ridiculous, then why is it that the mother has more value and more of a right to kill her child than the child has to live? It doesn't really make a whole lot of sins. And again, these are the people who are influencing the next generation of lawyers and judges. I mean, we are in serious trouble unless the pendulum swings in the other direction. So I just wanted to respond to that. Also, if you haven't listened, speaking of

abortion, if you haven't listened to yesterday's episode where I break down Emmanuel Alcho's recent uncomfortable conversation about abortion in which he doesn't represent the pro-life side at all, which Christianity is grossly misrepresented. Definitely go listen to yesterday's episode. All right. Now switching gears into the conversation that we are having today. I do want to play a couple clips that are going to lead us into this conversation about what's going on in public education. All right.

So speaking of the craziness and the absurdity and the destructive nature of gender ideas, biology. Let's look at some of the things that are happening in our schools. And if you have listened to me for any amount of time, you know how pervasive this problem is of teachers of elementary and middle schoolers talking about switching your gender, talking about transitioning without the knowledge of the parents. And as I will talk about with Dr. Scott Coley, the consequence of that very often is self-harm and suicide by these kids who have been separated from their parents for the purpose of transitioning for the purpose of what I call gender grooming. But there is also an explicitly sexual part of this that these young students are being presented,

either directly in curriculum or in the library, with these explicit books about different types of sex that young kids should not be learning about, especially outside of the supervision and the knowledge of their parents, the people who care about them most. and some parents who are really concerned about this have been going to school boards for the past couple of years and have been confronting the school board about the kinds of books that are being read to their students or made available to their students in the library. So here is one parent sounding the alarm about this at a school board meeting. So that is one of many examples. Very often these school boards will cut off the parents who is trying to read the stuff that their kids are learning.

And the school board will say, well, this is inappropriate for public consumption. But it's okay for the private consumption of kids without the supervision or consent of their parents. I mean, it's really scary. It's really sad what's happening. And no matter what people say, this is happening. And we're going to debate, discuss that with this professor, Dr. Scott Coley, right now. Dr. Coley, thank you so much for taking the time to join me. We have very different perspectives on all sorts of things.

We're going to focus on one thing in particular today, and that is this concept of grooming in schools that conservatives have been talking about a lot and your take on that. But before we get into it, can you just tell people who you are and what you do? So my name is Scott Coley. I teach philosophy, mainly history of philosophy, logic, social and political ethics. and so my work deals at the moment I'm working on a book about ideology and propaganda on the religious right. Do you identify as a progressive? Is that how you would describe your political views? I think, sure, politically progressive, a theologically conservative.

So the reason that we interacted first on Twitter, I think it was the first time that we interacted. It was a couple months ago. Let's see, it was April. And you did a thread about something that was happening on the right, something that I did. And that was like a satirical comparison between critical race theory and critical grooming theory. Of course, my satirical point that I was making is that you can't just be not a groomer. You have to be anti-grooming.

And it's part of this pervasive system that is basically inescapable. And you took issue with that in a very well, articulated thread. And one point that you make was that the whole grooming conspiracy you said that's being advanced by the political right in cooperation with the religious right is an appropriation of an anti-Semitic trope that Christ followers should have nothing to do with. And of course, I disagreed with that and you said that I was bad at reading. So if you could better explain, since I seem to misunderstand what you may, if you could better explain what you mean by that. Sure. So to be clear, you, and actually, I,

I saw the thread from a thread from someone else. I don't think I was aware of your thread until we interacted. But to be clear, I'm not accusing you of anti-Semitism per se, right? But this notion that the public school system has been turned into or turned over to some sort of pedophile ring or something like this. is part of a broader dialectic, right, wherein there are, so right, so who's supposed to be responsible for the whole, let's just walk through it, right? Who's supposed to be responsible for the sort of grooming thing, right? Who's allowing this to happen? Are you asking me or is this a rhetorical question that you're... No, no, no, I'm asking you, like, who's responsible?

Well, I don't know that I would literally say that it is a systemic grooming problem. My point would be that either ideological or in some instances sexual grooming is happening on a basis that is not highlighted enough in the education system, especially when it comes to gender ideology. So if your point that you're about to make or try to the parallel that you're making is that I believe it's some like secret cabal of Jewish people. people at the top of public education that is like pushing this grooming. That's certainly not what I believe. I can't speak for everyone. But I understand that you're trying to say that it's basically like

this Qa and non-conspiracy theory in which they think that there is this cabal of elites that's running a pedophile ring and that Donald Trump is going to like come in and save the day. So you think that's basically what people who are complaining about grooming and public education system are doing. Well, I'm aware of quite a few people who say that there's basically how do they characterize it as a handshake agreement between this, you know, group of people who are abusing children and sort of elites, right? That's the key word. You just use the word elite, right? And that that word elite is in quotes or, you know, triple parentheses or whatever. And somehow it always leads back to George Soros or something like that, right? You're aware that this, that this dynamic

is a thing. Yeah. So I think that probably just as there are like things on the left that I don't completely understand and that I conflate because I'm coming from a more antagonistic perspective of progressivism. I do think it's easy to conflate like real complaints about George Soros and how he has funding, for example, progressive DAs, which conservatives would disagree with and some of the organizations that he has funded and the policies that he has kind of advocated for in the United States. And then this group of truly like white supremacist, racist people who think, and I've seen them too. I'm not denying that they exist. And maybe they identify as they're right of people who think that, you know, Jews are controlling the world and that they're controlling our

entertainment, whatever it is. I definitely think it's wrong to conflate people who say, oh, George Soros is behind a lot of bad stuff in the United States and people who think that, like, Jews are ruining the world. And I definitely think it's wrong to conflate the parents who are worried about a lot of the grooming type curriculum in public schools and then these like anti-Semitic Q&N on conspiracy peddlers. And that's what it seems like you're doing. Okay. So the way that sort of conspiracy theory ecosystems operate, it's, so I want to make two points.

The first is that it can be contribute to the toxicity of ecosystems in which conspiracy theories thrive. for people who don't necessarily endorse sort of, you know, the whole anti-Semitic global elite sort of narrative to say, like, well, I'm just asking some questions here, right? But second point and relatedly, you say that, you know, parents and other people have concerns about grooming type behavior in public schools and public school curriculum. I wonder if you could say a little bit more about that because you said a moment ago that you're not actually alleging some kind of systemic sort of thing. And that's kind of the linchpin that connects it that connects the claim to the conspiracy theory bit, right? Is that there's this huge conspiracy. So if you don't actually think that's going on, right?

And the real concern is that there are elements of the curriculum in, say, sex education or what happened, right, that are contributing to, say, you know, grooming behavior. I wonder if you could say a little bit more about what you mean by that. Yes. So I think that there's a difference between prevalence and something that is prevalent and something that is systemic. If I am defining systemic correctly, it's everywhere. It's within the system. It's within the institutions.

And I do think that there are, in my opinion, from my perspective, like I think that teachers unions in general are toxic. And I do think that a lot of the organizations that push the curriculum that I would see is destructive. That, I mean, that is part of, I guess, the system and the institution. But when I think about systemic, I think about it's everywhere. It's in the foundation. It's inescapable.

And I'm not sure that that is true of the public education system. But do I think it's pervasive or do I think it's prevalent? I do. And example after example has demonstrated that to me over the past year and really has changed my perspective on like the health of our public education system when it comes to what is being talked. And so I can kind of give some examples about that. There is, there's this terrible lawsuit that is occurring in California right now.

And it is a mother versus Speckles Union. She is actually suing the middle school in California because her daughter was recruited to join the equality club in sixth grade and told she may be transgender and bisexual. The teachers encouraged Jessica Conan's daughter to change her name to a boy's name as an of her new identity and specifically instructed her not to tell her mother about her new identity. And then a part of this lawsuit actually alleges that there is a parental secrecy policy at the school in which the kids are instructed, hey, you can transition at school, you can identify as something else at school, and we will not tell your parents. There's also a Florida lawsuit. The parents of a Florida elementary school student are suing their daughter's school district after their child attempted to commit suicide following the school's efforts to orchestrate her secret transition to,

a male gender identity. There was this horrible, I'm sure you would agree, a tragic story of this immigrant, Yalee Martinez. She was told by her middle school and then high school that, hey, maybe because you like boy stuff, you should transition to the opposite sex. Her mother had no idea that that was something that was happening. She wasn't able to give her the support, provide the support that she needed. The school actually took the teenager out of her home saying, hey, this mother is not being supportive of this gender transition. This child bounced around to different group homes and ended up throwing herself on the train tracks and committing suicide.

And so these are just a few examples. Transition Closet has also been funded just recently in Columbia, Missouri. These are just a few examples. I could go through example after example of this kind of behavior by schools to draw or to drive a wedge between parents and their children. And I'm sure you have a different perspective on this. But if that is not a form of grooming, I don't know what is. I mean, that is an aspect of what predators do.

You drive a wedge between the person who is supposed to protect the child and the child. And so that's what I'm seeing. That's what breaks my heart. That's what scares me. I certainly don't connect it to some grand anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. That's just something I'm seeing as a mom, as a person that really worries me for kids. Does that not concern you? Sure.

So is the allegation that I'll stipulate to all the all the facts under litigation? Is the allegation that the teachers were then preparing to sexually assault the students? No. And I don't think that that is what is being claimed by a lot of people. Of course, there are instances. Because that's what grooming is, right? I mean, it's no. And I think that actually conservatives have been very specific.

Now, maybe if you're not completely privy to, like the conversations that conservatives are having amongst each other, which I've changed the definition of, well, I think that there is a form of ideological grooming or we believe grooming or pressuring into believing. Yes, but I think that we have been pretty specific. I believe that we have been pretty specific about what exactly we mean by grooming. Ideological grooming, of course, I do believe that there is sexual grooming in every institution. You've brought it up. This has happened in the church as well. And so I'm not minimizing like any of the dangers or the reality of that happening in other places beyond the public education system. So I don't think in every instance, this is a situation where teachers are looking to sexually assault the students, of course, that happens. But do I think it is a form of grooming children into a certain kind of behavior into a certain kind of lifestyle without the consent and the knowledge of their parents in order to conform the kids into their own image or their own ideology or whatever it is or whether they think they're being inclusive

and great. It is a form of grooming a child into a certain lifestyle that is, in my opinion, extremely destructive. Right. So this actually has some resonances with this sort of conspiracy type approach to these issues. Right. And the idea is that the whole reason why elites have reach this bargain with people who are, I guess, ideologically grooming children is that they want to destabilize society by alienating children from their parents, making way for, you know, the construction of a new social order. So I'm not really even sure how we can say that that's a conspiracy. Like, I mean, what do you make of these like transition closets and these instances of of schools and teachers and guidance counselors saying, hey, yeah, we're going to

transition you. We're going to pull you from your home because you're 13 years old and your parent says, oh, no, my daughter is not a son. And I'm not going to go along with this, even though I love them very much. Like, I mean, what do you make of that? What do you think the purpose is behind that? Oh, I mean, I can't, I don't know what the motive is. I can't, I can't speak to that. But do I think that it's connected to a Marxist strategy for destabilizing society in general? Well, I don't think that that is probably the intent of a lot of people, but that is always the natural progression of Marxism. And progressivism in general, it's destabilizing because it seeks to tear down and it really never has anything cohesive or coherent to replace it with, of course,

from my perspective. Well, there are ideas, but they never seem to work out. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Why are you progressive? Yeah, no, no, I'm definitely, if you're looking to talk with a Marxist, you pick the wrong person. I'm not. I'm not trying to like accuse you of being a Marxist. I guess all I'm saying is that, okay, these are like very legitimate concerns. Maybe you can maybe you don't like the word grooming because you think, okay, there's always sexual connotations with that and that is like the wrong accusation. And I can, I can understand I can understand that for sure. And maybe I should just like be more careful about choosing the word. But I mean, it is. It is a form. If you're talking to kindergartners, which is something

that's happened. Like if you were introducing a book like gender queer to elementary and to middle school students and we're talking about like graphic images of like oral sex and talking about like switching your gender at that young of an age when a child's mind is so malleable. Like when you know they can be shaped, introducing that kind of sexual graphic content and that kind of confusion that has to do with their genitals. It does. Like if you're talking to students about that, without the consent and the knowledge of the parent, even if your intent is not to sexually assault them, like, what do you call that other than grooming? Like, do you think that's just good, inclusive teaching? I absolutely do not endorse showing graphic sexual images to kindergartners.

So you would think it's a problem that in many, middle schools and elementary schools across the country, that book, genderqueer, is on the shelves for kids to read. Yeah, I guess I would, I wonder how prevalent that is. I don't doubt that it, I don't doubt that it's happened. I'm not, I'm not. Do you think that it's, do you think it's okay for teachers to talk to elementary school students about, like, switching their gender and changing their pronouns without their parents' knowledge and consent? In a, so then I guess you're saying this is happening in the context of a classroom, like the teacher. just talking to all the whole class like oh by the way yeah teaching them about like so-called

gender inclusion and that it's possible to be born a girl and assign sex at birth and then change your gender later on do you think that's okay like as a part of the curriculum to just present that information do you think it's okay for a teacher to be talking about that to young students i i guess context is always like does this has the student approached the teacher and with concerns about this and the teacher like brings in the guidance counselor like all i don't i mean i guess i don't know the hypothetical situations i'm not sure if you're probably not a fan of lips of ticot but the teachers that we see every single day like posting videos saying oh you know today i um read a book about like i am jazz or i think uh it's one is called like jacky not jack these

children's books that are about, hey, if you want to change your clothes and if you want to be a different gender, I mean, I can't tell you that this is happening at every public school at every public school district, but there are enough complaints leveled. There is enough video evidence of this happening. Admissions by teachers happening on a daily basis that we know that it's happening across the country at, I think, a pretty scary clip from my perspective. And so I'm just curious, like, what you think about that? Like, do you still think that people who are complaining about that being a form of grooming are like contributing to an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory. Right.

Okay. So again, I'm not accusing you or anyone who's who any specific people who are who put, you know, talking about this on Twitter on that particular day a couple months ago of, of, themselves advancing anti-Semitism. But my, the point, right, so a trope, right? I called it a trope for a reason. A trope is a kind of refrain, right? It's a musical term to have to do,

has to do with melody, right? There's a certain kind of melody that it follows. Yeah, so do I think that parents, here's the essence of the question, I think. Do I think that parents who complain about their first grader being read stories by a public school teacher that suggests that they should consider changing their gender who complain, are therefore guilty of advancing anti-Semitism?

No, I do not. So then the people like me, commentators who are seeing, wow, this didn't just happen once or twice, but this is happening over and over again, it seems. It seems like there's lots of parents across the country, even if it's only hundreds. Yes, percentage-wise, that's small, but, okay, that's happening. Hundreds of parents, at least are complaining about this kind of thing

and those kinds of books in the library. Okay, so you talk about that and you complain about that and you say, hey, this is a form of grooming that seems to be happening, these transition clauses, the separation of parent and child. There's this terrible story. And I'm sure that you disagree with this happening. But a 17-year-old student in Ohio at Hudson High School, he told his parent that he was prompted by the teacher to write a sex scene that they wouldn't show their mom and actually posted

like a worksheet of that assignment. I mean, that kind of thing, unfortunately, is happening. So people who complain about that are saying, hey, this is happening more than once. This is a problem. We should probably be against that. It just doesn't seem, I don't see the connection, the real connection, the provable connection between that and the Q&on trope that you say is being appropriated here. It just seems like you use that originally to delegitimize.

and dismiss people's real concerns about this happening. So remember the connection, right? So the connection is that there is an agreement between people who are grooming sexually or ideologically grooming children, right? And if ideologically, then the, say, indoctrination has to do with gender and sexuality, right? and that there's an agreement between the folks who are doing that in the public school system and then elites who are allowing this to happen because they want to alienate children from their parents, destabilize society in order to deconstruct the social order and reconstruct society, I mean, presumably along communist lines with, you know, central economic planning and all that.

and eventually, you know, lead to some kind of one world government or something like that, right? That is the anti-Semitic bit. Now, I understand that you didn't mean to imply all of that. And again, I didn't see your threat until after we communicated. Yeah, I think that it's, I still think it's like it's such an unfair categorization. It would be the same thing as me saying, hey, you say systemic racism is really. because of XYZ. Well, critical race theory also says systemic racism is real. Critical race theory is a subset of critical theory. Critical theory is a subset of Marxist. You're a Marxist. And you really do want

to destabilize society because you believe in those things. That would be an unfair accusation of people who believe that systemic racism is real, right? That would be unfair for me to say. I don't think that's a fair analogy. And actually, I think that like it's, that is actually much more logical and I have a much better case to make than the one that you're making. So I'm not sure that's a fair analogy. Because I pointed out, I believe that the talk of quote-unquote grooming is part of a conspiracy theory that's documented, right, that plays on anti-Semitic tropes. I didn't say you're talking about children being groomed in public schools, therefore you are an anti-Semite.

I didn't say that. And I wouldn't say that. I want to say I was careful not to say that, but I'm not sure how much care was involved. That's just not a claim I make. Okay. Well, I definitely, I don't want to seem like I'm putting words in your mouth or accusing you of something that you didn't do because you're right. You said that it's an appropriation of an anti-Semitic trope. You didn't say everyone who complains about this is an antisemitic.

So I don't want it to seem like I'm implying that. I simply think that making that connection, even making that connection is in a way implying that people who complained about it are at the very least appropriating or contributing to are a part of, even unknowingly, some kind of grand conspiracy theory that does, even if that's not the intent, the impact is to delegitimize people's real concerns about this and kind of describe it as. some kind of moral panic and propaganda by the religious right when unfortunately there's a lot of evidence of this happening. I'll give you, I'll give you the final word and then let you tell people where they can find you if they want to follow you. Okay. So it sounds to me like what you're describing is concerns about a number of concerning incidents. Yeah. And it sounds to me like you're not actually claiming that there is some kind of conspiracy at work here. Well, I do think that it is, I do think it is intentional. I think that the impact will be the destabilization of society.

And I don't think it's any question that the public education system is run mostly by people who have a progressive ideology. That's been true for a very long time. If you look at the political leanings at the, the teachers unions and where this curriculum is coming from, like, you're not seeing. Oh, there's like also there's a huge push for like a hard right conservative like curriculum or there has been over the past 60 years. There's been some like Christian nationalist takeover of like the public education system. But you can't see. There's an interesting book called the hijacking of history that you might be interested to read. They're particularly school boards in Texas have very much been taken over by the religious right. And this and this, uh,

as goes Texas, so goes many states because the public school system in Texas is quite large and therefore has a lot of purchasing company. That would be like, that would be quite the pendulum swing if public education system swings to the right and swings to Christianity. Well, I have student, I have college students sometimes who grew up in the South, as did I, right? And so I had similar experiences who, like, they sincerely believe that the Civil War was about liberty on the side of the South. Yeah. There, I mean, propaganda and it's still in public

school textbooks in the South this documented. I hear people say that and I am sure that there are incidents, unfortunately, of that happening. I grew up in Texas. I went to a private Christian school, very conservative. And I learned everything about the Holocaust, about the Trail of Tears, about slavery, about the Civil War. And I'm not saying, oh, well, just because I experienced that, that means that no one's different experience is legitimate. I'm not saying that, but I hear those kind of anecdotes all the time. And I'm not saying that there is no misinformation that comes from the right or conservative school districts. My argument, my contention is that the kind of ideological grooming that we are seeing in the form of gender ideology from progressives is a lot more pervasive.

And in my opinion, like if we're going to weigh the two, a lot more destructive. That's my point. You have a different perspective. And I do really appreciate you taking the time to come on. talk to me about it. Hopefully, when we have... It's been a pleasure. More time. Maybe we can talk about... You have a book coming out, I think, right? And so maybe when the book comes out, you can come back on. And after I read it, we can talk about the different points and where we agree and disagree. That would be delightful. Thank you so much for inviting

me on the show. Thanks for coming on, Dr. Coley. All right, I hope that you guys enjoyed that, that you got a lot out of it. I do really appreciate, as I said, him coming on and having the discussion with me, hopefully we'll be able to have him back and talk even further. Tomorrow, I will be talking to Steve Deis about this Hunter Biden drama, which I really haven't talked about because it really makes me sad and it really crosses me out too. But it's actually, it's important. It's important for us to know why it matters to us, how it impacts us, how it impacts national security and how it fits into everything that is going on in the geopolitical sphere. And so, and even theologically, what are the theological implications of how we should think about like our leaders engaging in this kind of

behavior because it's not just Hunter Biden. It's also how Joe Biden is complicit and compromised in all of this. And so we'll be discussing that with Steve Days tomorrow. We'll also be covering some other things as well. So make sure that you tune into that. If you love this podcast, as always, please leave us a five-star review. That would mean a lot. We will see you guys back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Days. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase

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