Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 653 | Losing Custody of Your "Trans" Daughter | Guest: Jeannette Cooper

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

Today, we have a fascinating interview with Jeannette Cooper, a mom who lost custody of her child three years ago for not fully, unquestioningly accepting her daughter's claim that she was transgender. We discuss Jeannette's experience, and she talks about how she believes there is a social aspect to the sudden surge in kids who claim not to be the gender they were born as and what it was like to have to basically be excised from her daughter's life over this issue. Jeannette also tells us how she's been working over the past three years to raise awareness about what the state is doing in these cases of "trans" kids, fighting to prevent her situation from being repeated. --- Today's Sponsors: Annie's Kit Clubs — all subscriptions are month-to-month, and you can cancel anytime! Go to AnniesKitClubs.com/ALLIE & get your first month 75% off! Good Ranchers — change the way you shop for meat today by visiting GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE & use promo code 'ALLIE' to save $30 off your order, get free express shipping, and donate life-changing food to kids in need! Blaze Socks — get your Blaze patriotic socks at BlazeSocks.com, use promo code 'ALLIESOCKS'! --- Today's Links: The Daily Signal: "How Gender Ideology Cost a Chicago Mother Custody of Her Child" https://www.dailysignal.com/2022/07/26/how-gender-ideology-cost-a-chicago-mother-custody-of-her-child/ --- Previous Episodes Mentioned: Ep 165 | Nancy Pearcey https://apple.co/3SwiWWK Ep 423 | Feminists vs. Radical Gender Ideology | Guest: Meghan Murphy https://apple.co/3vyTAgX Ep 434 | The Women Against Trans Activism | Guest: Kathleen Stock [Part 1] https://apple.co/3PQ443A Ep 448 | Gay, Feminist, and Against Trans Activism (Part 2) | Guest: Dr. Kathleen Stock https://apple.co/3vyUcmL Ep 636 | How BDSM, Porn, & Pedophilia Are Tied to Transgender Ideology | Guest: Genevieve Gluck https://apple.co/3bpKtIr --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed.

You can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Hey, guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Tuesday. Today, I am having a fascinating and at times emotional but also uplifting conversation with a mom by the name of Jeanette Cooper. She lost custody of her daughter three years ago when her daughter suddenly said that

she identifies as the opposite gender. So Janad is going to tell us what that journey has been like and what her message is to other parents. As always, this episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. That's American Meat delivered right to your front door. You can go to good ranchers.com slash Allie for a discount. That's good ranchers.com slash alley. All right, y'all, you are going to love this conversation and love this guest.

She's got a really unique perspective. we're not coming from the same place, theologically or politically, which is why I think her particular stance is so interesting. And so I think you're going to learn a lot from her. Before we get into it,

I'll just make a little announcement that I was once again suspended from Twitter. We just talked about this yesterday, so it's pretty timely. I've been suspended a couple times before for saying that a man is a man, even though he declares himself to be a woman. This time I got

a notification that I was temporarily locked out of Twitter because there was a video that I don't even want to play because it's so disturbing. It was shared by lives of TikTok and it was a pride parade happening in Berlin. And you know, there's a lot of weird stuff happening at these pride parades. It's not just like people throwing around their rainbow flag saying love is love. There's a lot of nudity. There is a lot of what's called kink. And apparently there is a subset of kink that is like where men dress up in leather dog suits. They have like leather dog masks on. It's like BDSM. Just very disturbing. I don't even want to go into detail. So this man was dressed up like that. And as part of this kink show, he was also in a cage, I guess acting like a dog. It's very

sick, perverse stuff. And there was this little precious girl, probably five years old, who was like looking in the cage and I guess asking this man questions. what parents in their right mind would allow their child to interact in this way and see something like this? I mean, they're not in their right mind. That is the answer to it. Or they're just evil. And then you see in, so she's interacting with this man.

And then you see that she actually gets in the cage with this man. Okay. Disgusting, disgusting stuff. Yes, this is abusive. It is. It is some of the most wicked stuff that you can even think of. And I quote tweeted it on Twitter. This was several days ago.

And what sick pervert reported it? I don't know. My tweet where I said, throw this man in the cage to the bottom of the sea. I didn't think that that would even be remotely controversial. But apparently to some people, to some, I don't know, the predator weirdos, they decided that me saying that was unacceptable.

When in fact, Jesus himself, is even harsher than that. If anyone causes one of these little ones to sin, it would be better for him if there was a millstone tied to his neck and he was thrown into the depth of the sea. I didn't even say anything about a millstone. So really, I should have taken it to the next level. Twitter, of course, is going to protect these predators. I think based on YouTube comments yesterday about our poll for what we should call some of these people instead of groomers. I'm talking about people that try to interact with kids. in a sexual way or groom then to try to question their gender and their sexuality when they're five years old, rather than calling them groomers, since people are getting kicked off platforms for that. I saw a lot of votes kind of surprising for A4, which is adults after adolescent affirmation. And that seems to be the case here. Twitter loves those people, loves those predators and will do anything to protect them. So I get suspended from Twitter off that because of that. And then meanwhile, people who actually threaten the lives of, for example,

conservative Supreme Court justices, they're fine. They're not going to get kicked off. I don't even care at this point. We're so used to that kind of duplicitousness. We're so used to that kind of hypocrisy from Twitter. They let me back on Twitter. Whatever. No big deal. But just realize, even as we're going into this conversation, that there is a whole network of entities. We're talking about corporate America. We're talking about big tech. We're talking about the federal government. We're even talking about the UN, the WHO.

We're talking about some of the biggest billionaires in the world that are funding this industry of gender confusion and gender mutilation that is then preying upon children through a variety of channels, whether it's social media, whether it's through the shows that they watch, the people they interact with online. This is being affirmed in the classroom very often without. the knowledge and the consent of the parents. And one of the purposes, whether intentional or incidental, is to drive a wedge between parents who love and seek the well-being of their kids and the kids themselves.

And so that is the theme of what we were going to talk about today. We are going to talk to a parent who has been separated from her child because of this confusion, because of this ideology. You will hear in this conversation. I mean, she is extremely set. which you will just be floored by her steadiness and all of this. I, however, at one point, turned into a puddle of tears. But this is not a conversation that's just going to pull you down and make you sad.

Yes, it will make you sad in a lot of ways, especially you who are parents. You can imagine how terrible this would be. But she is also very positive and she is doing something about this issue. She's not the only parent who has experienced this. There has been story after story that I've talked about on this show of parents who have been separated from their kid because they refused to accept this idea that their daughter suddenly is really a boy at the age of 13 because they love their child. And the state is saying, nope, we know better. Scary stuff, serious stuff, stuff that we really need to care about and know about. And I wanted

you to hear firsthand from a mom that has been on the receiving end of this madness. And I know that you're really going to appreciate this conversation. So without further ado, here is our new friend, Jeanette Cooper. Jeanette, thank you so much for joining us. Let's go all the way back. For those who have not heard your story, many have, but for those who have no idea your experiences or why you're coming on the show today,

tell us who you are. Tell us a little bit about your story, how all of this started you talking to the media about your experience with your daughter. Yeah, so I guess I could, at what most people are interested in, which is my daughter was with me six days a week, seven, no, six nights a week, seven days a week after I was divorced approximately seven years ago, and that was through mediation, so it wasn't a, you know, a fight or anything about it.

We had agreed to that plan here in Chicago, and my daughter went on a regular three-and-a-half-hour visit, a custodial visit to her dad's house. And then I went to go pick her up and he refused to release her back into my custody. Something felt odd about that. So really odd. That had really never happened. So I actually sent my attorney an email that evening. Just getting her a heads up that something was really weird and what had happened. I just had a conversation. He just simply refused. I didn't quite understand that. So I went back home and then the next day I received kind of an email from her that she had adopted a transgender identity that she was, I think at that time, she said she was a boy and didn't feel safe in my home for some reason. And then

and then I contacted my attorney and I said, okay, we're doing a, we need to do some sort of petition to bring her back to my custody. I tried, I called her on the phone, I believe, and had a conversation. Nothing really happened in that conversation. And then I went to court. Actually, we couldn't get the mediation as fast as we could get to court. But I was basically told that my ex-husband had known about this for a month. My daughter had gone to her stepmom, a licensed psychotherapist, and had said, hey, I'm transgender, and I feel unsafe with my mom. And unethically, the psychotherapist said,

okay, well, of course you can live with us instead of maybe thinking, hey, maybe we should talk to your mom. there's, I don't see any reason why your mom would be unsafe. You know, we can have an adult conversation. Instead, my ex-husband said, you know, she told me to keep it a secret from you, and so I did. Okay, so she was 12 years old. Which is not really co-parenting. Right.

So she was 12 years old at this point, correct? Yeah, she was just about to turn 13. Okay. And where do you think she got this idea? that she might be a girl or a boy trapped in a girl's body? I will say that the internet is full of all kinds of things. But if you don't know a child who has claimed a trans identity, you're living in a cave. It's quite the social contagion right now.

So I think the idea of adopting some sort of other identity and becoming a new person is really easy to create in your mind, especially with the idea that you can actually actually create other identities online. I mean, I happen to be a person who doesn't have kind of multiple Facebook accounts or multiple Twitter accounts or something, but many people do. And so the idea that you can kind of split your interests and personalities into individual identities that you then play out, I think is appealing to young people who are in this identity development stage of adolescence that goes on for quite a period of time. And the idea that you can pick a cool name that's new, that's kind of appealing, of course. I mean, my daughter

picked some anime name, and that was when she was 12. And I don't know how she feels about that now that she's going to be 16 this summer. So was she, was anime a big part of her life at this point? Not that I know of. I mean, but I think a lot of characters are written in such a way that they're quite idyllic. Yeah. So you have characters that are written with, you know, such power, bravery, courage, and all kinds of qualities that, yes, people have, but any writer of, you know, fiction kind of creates characters that are just a sliver. They're just part of a larger kind of human being and that's the purpose of the character is to just exhibit a very specific narrow trait. And so I can understand how children will want to be kind of a hero in the movie,

something like that. It makes sense. Right. Well, you're not the first parent that I have heard say that their young son or daughter liked anime, watched anime, was a part of anime communities perhaps online. I don't know if that's true of your daughter, but had social media accounts, And having not watched anime myself, I don't know what the connection is, but there seems to be a very real connection between anime, the kind of Tumblr, Reddit, online culture for young people, and gender switching or gender play or identifying as something else. I certainly think what you just described is part of it. And then also the aspect of the social contagion. And it kind of feels good to say that you're misunderstood by your parents, but you're fully known and accepted by this community online. I do think that that is kind of what lures a lot of young, impressionable boys, but especially girls, kind of into this world. Did you see any signals leading up to this kind of sudden, hey, I'm transgender and I feel unsafe with you? did you see any signals or symptoms in your daughter?

Not really. I think that I don't consider a transgender identity some unique thing. It's the same as any sort of, I hate the word phase, but it is any sort of experiment that children are making as they push, pull through this period of adolescence. So it's not unusual in that way. The difference in this particular arena is that it forecloses other options. So it's not as if I can dress kind of goth and take on this personality for a couple of years, you know, sixth, seventh grade. And then all of a sudden I'm in eighth grade and I, you know, I start dressing a different way. You can just take it off.

You can't exactly do that when you've bullied people into calling. you a certain name. And you've changed a bunch of records. And people actually don't know what your real name is because maybe they've never heard it. So it's not so easy to come back from summer break and all of a sudden you're wearing different clothes or you have a different style. It's not like that. So I can understand that any child, you know, it's not as if this period, there was nothing unusual in that way. I suppose I'm the most gender non-conforming of the two of us. So if anybody were going to be considered a boy with this, to be honest, stupid criteria, it would be me. I mean, I don't shave. I've never worn makeup. I have short hair. Like I said, I'm a general

contractor. I spend a lot of my time with men. I would be the one that you would probably say that about not my daughter who wears makeup, does her nails and always has. So it's a beautiful nails. We're a bra and it's just she's not the one. Right. Right. Tell me what it has been like emotionally for you. Take us back first to I'm sure what was kind of the sudden shock. of, wait, what do you mean that you are not going to allow my daughter to come back into my custody? I mean, you said that you had spent every day with her and suddenly, no, you can't have your daughter.

I mean, as a mom myself, I just cannot imagine the anxiety that comes with that. But then tell me how it felt and also what unfolded over the next several years. Yeah, so it's been three years now, a little over three years since July 22nd. 2019 when she went to her dad's house and didn't come back. I don't know if you've ever had a concusses. But if you can imagine somebody hitting you on the back of the head with a two by four with full force, I would say that's what I felt like for about six months. It's pretty disoriented. Because I have just a strong belief and justice and the government to create that. I have a strong belief in people doing good things. I believe all people are good. And so it's a little bit,

I don't say a little bit, a lot confusing when all of the rules of child development have been thrown out the window. It's very confusing to have sat on the school board of the local school, to be the room parent for her school and to be around children kind of all the time. I mean, I'm a candidate for a PhD in education at DePaul University. So to say that I am somehow unsafe for children is quite the insult. Right. So it is very, it was very confusing to me. It's not confusing so much anymore because I know there are certain assumptions within

this frame of family court and society in general at this cultural moment. But those six months, yes, absolutely, I came home and I had to walk by a room that was filled with everything. I mean, she went through all the steps. I went to many workshops on suicide after she had left because that was the narrative of, okay, she's suicidal or something like that or had some sort of this whole idea of a transgender-identified child and suicide are kind of interlinked. So I went to lots of workshops about suicide. And they talked about signs of suicide, for example.

they say, you know, what a person does is they kind of talk to people in kind of a last goodbye way. So they talk to them for the last time. They clean, generally organize their own stuff and life, make everything neat. They give away some prized things. She actually went through all of those steps. She did all of those things. And I consider it a living suicide. This is the, that was the moment in which she kind of killed off Sophia and created this new identity.

So she did that before she went to her dad's and basically said, hey, I'm not coming back. Right. Because for that month, when she had told her stepmother, the psychotherapist, and then her dad, that was a month in which, and you said you have kids. So if your child is unusually kind of generous and nice, like, hey, mom, can I, can I bring you anything? Do you want this? Do you want that? It kind of gets your antenna up and you think, what are you going to ask me for? Or what did you do?

You have kind of a weird feeling that something is about to come. And it felt like that for about a month. And I honestly thought, as they say in the suicide workshop, you feel like your child has turned a corner. and you feel like the weight has been lifted off of them and all of a sudden their their kind of anxiety, depression, all this kind of thing disappear. And the reason it happens is because they have made a decision. And the release of all of that stuff kind of falling off creates a sense of kind of happiness and peace.

That's what I saw. I didn't know that that was a sign of something. now I do because I know quite a bit about suicide. Had she been depressed and anxious or lonely or brooding leading up to this? I mean, every child who experiences the trauma of divorce has those feelings. I think that is a major trauma and we know that it's part of the adverse childhood experience. So we know that that is trauma. And yes, you know, without kind of disclosing, you know,

anything. Of course, many children who have suffered that trauma have suicidal ideation, anxiety depression, kind of stemming from that significant rupture of family, that sense of loss, that there's not a lot you can do about in that moment. You just kind of have to help a child build some coping mechanisms around that and create, you know, a different kind of life than they had in their mind and then what everybody had in their mind. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty,

over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Tell us what it has been like through the legal process. I know that you said for six months there, you came home. It just felt like a gut punch.

And it sounds like you were doing everything that you could to try to understand what was going on and that you also held on to hope. that the wrong would be made right really soon, this assumption that the justice system will deliver justice, that people are basically good once people saw that, hey, you weren't unsafe for your daughter, that things would resolve, but that hasn't happened.

So tell us exactly what that process has looked like. So one of the things that I guess people assume, which I find very interesting, is that I never use this name and these pronouns that she decided. I did that. I actually wrote kind of a long, three-page affirmation letter, if you want to call it that.

I was told, I can't actually say this. There are some limits to what I'm allowed to say legally. So I did say that I would use this name and pronouns, but I had a lot of questions. That's not a lot of. thing I was really allowed to have. You're not allowed to question. Has to be uncritical acceptance of this newfound identity that your 12-year-old has.

Yeah, I mean, kind of coming with a question versus balloons and a cake is not the right response in this current cultural moment. So I just don't think that's good parenting. So I really did want to ask questions and talk to my child. And I went to family therapy. I've had approximately eight and a half hours of family therapy with my daughter. And how I would describe it is some sort of triangulation. So my daughter had quite the advocate in the therapist. And so there was no opportunity really for me to ask any questions at all. In the way that therapy is supposed to be private, it wasn't really.

Because anything that happened in therapy seemed to make its way back to family. court. So if you have my attorney and me, and then you have my child who has her own attorney, and then my ex-husband who has his own attorney, it becomes a bit of a two-against-one situation. So I'm not really sure. I think at that point, when I wrote the affirmation letter, which would have been about 10 days after she left, the response that I received, not from her, but from professionals in this arena was that that wasn't going to work. And at that point, it was a bit of a jolt because I knew that there was something up. I'm not sure I knew what, but I knew, wait a minute, I did what I thought I was supposed to be doing. I don't understand this. And I was confused

for quite a period until I realized at some point that everything was resting. on kind of two central assumptions within the entire thing that I had no control over. So the two central assumptions that any of these family court things and the bigger, wider society rest on is one, there is such a unicorn as a transgender child. And they are wholly unique from other children. And the second assumption is that they will kill themselves. if you don't use whatever name or pronoun they happen to decide upon, which has no relationship really to anything but their own feelings.

And if those two things are true, then you get my situation. So it's not, it's predictable in a way. Once I figured those two things out and I said, you know, I can't do that. Because I have a strongly held belief in what I would describe as reality, are material reality. Well, so how did you move from the letter that you sent her 10 days after she was taken out of your custody to affirming her? And I think you said using like the name and pronouns that she said that she wanted

to realizing, okay, I can't continue down this path of uncritical affirmation of this new identity. It sounds like something kind of changed in your mind. Well, I was always kind of questioning. I understand the word critical. the way that you're using it, I don't think it's critical meaning questioning. Yes. Just asking curious questions.

That's what I mean. Yeah. So, yes, I can understand that. I was kind of in a state of neutrality of asking questions. And this curious, yes, I'm concerned that my child is distressed. Yes, I'm concerned that she is kind of thinking and saying these things. And I would like to know more about that. And in that process, they were just, I was not given any opportunity to really get any information or answers at all.

So it was just, don't you understand that she's trans? And asking what does that mean is a bigoted question. It's not acceptable. And I guess I learned in a bit of a way that other people are not in charge of deciding, I mean, I'm not really concerned about their judgments of me. I know what kind of parent I am. I know that I'm a good person. And I know that I love and deeply care for my daughter. So you can say all kinds of things, but it kind of doesn't impact me anymore.

So little by little, I could see every question was met with kind of a bit of a shut up. This is what good parenting is. This is what you should be doing. And I don't believe some of those things. And I don't think that's good parenting just because my background is with children. Like, I actually know how the brain develops. I know how an adolescent brain is. Right.

And you know your daughter, as you said before, she hadn't demonstrated. any symptoms of gender dysphoria. This was sudden and you were supposed to accept it. Right. And I don't know if you're able to say, I know that she said there are some legal boundaries to what you can say. So just say what you're comfortable with. I'm personally just curious what role you believe your ex-husband and his wife have played in this because to me, I'm thinking, okay, what was going on when you weren't there that she kind of suddenly said, oh, I'm unsafe with my mom, whom she had been with for a very long time, and I am safe with these people over here. That to me, I don't know, seems like a red flag.

Yes, I think that children use the word safe in a way that actually isn't using the word properly. So what they're saying is, I'm more comfortable here because the boundaries are different. So I'm able to do more things. and take more kind of risky behavior, I can get away with more because these adults wish to please me and cannot bear the distress of seeing me upset. I think adults think that they're doing good things for children. I think that they think that they are good parents in that moment. I think that my ex-husband believes that, and I'm sure stepmom thinks that she's doing the right thing. But the difference is between supporting somebody in healthy behaviors and enabling unhealthy ones.

Anybody who has been with anyone through addiction or self-harm or any of those things knows the difference between those two terms supporting and enabling. supporting healthy behaviors, enabling unhealthy ones. So supporting healthy behaviors means setting clear boundaries. And that person, in order to set clear boundaries, has to have a level of resilience that they can cope with being present with somebody who is in distress. And they don't kind of transfer that distress inside of them and take it on and it distresses that person. when you enable somebody, especially, you know, addiction type of situation, the person who is enabling cannot bear to be around somebody in distress.

They simply suck all that distress in, feel like they want to stop it because they cannot bear it. The person around the person of stress cannot bear it. They are not resilient enough. They don't have the coping skills. I would say they're not strong enough in that moment. And so they'll do anything to get rid of that person's distress. because they cannot bear it. That is a call for somebody to kind of learn better coping skills

and to surround themselves with others who can support the child and bear through those moments of distress. I can do that. I mean, that's the thing when people say, oh, my gosh, you know, it's been three years without kind of having any real private contact with your daughter. I can bear that. I am bearing that, right?

It is possible. Now, my daughter is suffering serious trauma. She's separated from her mother. No child protective services or anybody else would think that that's a good idea in any way, shape, or form. So I'm not sure why it's happening now. I'm not sure why they don't see it as a trauma to her. She's a child and shouldn't have to suffer that. The adult should really step in and do something about it.

that. They're not. They don't have the resilience to set good boundaries for children. This is a normal thing for teenagers to push boundaries. Usually they're supposed to hit some. They're not supposed to run into people when the teenager says jump. The adults are not supposed to say how high. Right. That's not the role of a supportive adult in a child's life. So this is happening. This been happening these proceedings in Cook County, Illinois. And so is it a judge, one particular judge? Is it CPS? Who exactly is saying, hey, you cannot have contact with your daughter? How did this kind of come down? So there's first, when you go into court and a child says that they're unsafe in some way, it kind of triggers a custody evaluation if you can't agree to that custody.

So no kind of, we have Department of Child and Family Services, which is, you know, Child Protective Services in other states. There was no investigation in that department because there was no abuse or neglect. So there was nothing that indicated abuse or neglect. So that investigation was never opened. What was opened was what's called a 604B, evaluation, which involves psychological testing and hours and hours in interviews, basically since birth to present, that talks about all kinds of things, and the interviewer

can ask you really whatever. That person then produces a report. They're supposed to talk to other people who have observed the family and together who observed the child, has some relationship. I gave a list of maybe 10 or 12 people on that list. the investigator contacted one of them, and that was kind of sad. So I don't think that person really had a good understanding. But they have to yield something to give some recommendation to the court. So what happens is it's a bit of a series of communication games where the investigator has a lot of information, summarizes it in a report, and then has to give a recommendation to the court,

So the judge really doesn't have a lot of information. All they're kind of doing and all, it was a female judge. So all C's doing is saying, what does that person recommend? I'm kind of going to go along with that. The investigator recommended that I get a better understanding of my child's gender dysphoria and transgender identity. Which meant not asking questions, basically. It kind of meant that I should follow.

whatever people were telling me to do as if I don't have my own intuition or educational background and life experience as a mother. Right. And you don't. Yeah, if certificates make somebody superhuman and that negates kind of the millennia of experience of mothers and their adolescent daughters, right? This is a perpetual thing that adolescent daughters and mothers go through. So this is quite normal.

But I didn't have the belief that they wanted me to have, not the understanding, I would say. I think it's a belief that they want me to have. They want me to believe that it is the right thing to allow my child to have a different identity, a real true other identity as another person with a different history. I mean, the children who come out with kind of this transgender identity or adopt this identity, they recreate their entire childhood in a way that it reckons back to that repressed memory syndrome where people would create memories that never existed. Yeah. As if adults don't remember those things much better than children themselves.

Yes. I have heard that from multiple people. And again, it goes back to two things that you've already mentioned. The communities that are created online, the social contagion aspect. And I think kids in general, but especially kids who decide that they identify as the opposite gender, they kind of take someone else's narrative as their own so that they can identify with it so that they can create community and affirmation around it, this idea that, oh, when this happened when I was three years old, that really meant that I was supposed to be a boy, that seems to be a common theme. And you're right. We're apparently just supposed to take kids at their word whose brains haven't even fully developed over their parents who not just

know them but love them. Yes, I think that the adolescent period, you're of course searching for meaning. I think that we all do that for the rest of our lifespan. So identity development isn't solidified, you know, when you're 25. Clearly, we are always in a state of becoming. We're always in that. But in the adolescent period, it is a bit of an experimentation. and kind of let me look into a bunch of different things and see which one fits. They usually describe it as trying on different outfits or personalities. And yeah, it makes sense to do those kinds of things, to try things out. But this solidifies things in a way that is not helpful to a child because they can't

simply change it one day. They can't simply discard something that they try on and it doesn't exactly work. We do see those children who, like my daughter, will say, you know, first they'll say, I'm a boy. And when you're sitting in a room with me, it's a bit difficult to get away with that, I would say, because I, like I said earlier, the list of boy traits, I think I hit better than my daughter for sure. So it's a bit difficult to sit in a room with me and say that you're more of a boy than I am. Right. But then a lot of the girls switch to this non-binary identity, which my friend describes as a house plant. And it's pretty, it's lovely, but most people don't notice it, so it kind of blends in.

And so they can kind of be anything they want. There is a woman, a brilliant, genius, Ex-Alanzig. She describes it as the Church of Trams because it's a religious belief system. So in the church of trans, you have these two different sect. And those two different sects are Our Lady of Perpetual Hormone Replacement Therapy, which is I was born in the wrong body, and I need to change my body to match my mind. That assumes that the mind is not plastic. There's nothing you can do to change it.

the entire field of psychotherapy shouldn't exist. And the body is the only thing that can be changed. So that's the kind of one sect, this Our Lady of Perpetual Hormone Replacement Therapy, and that assumes male and female. But then there's this other sect called the Church of the Non-Binaries he describes Afrolandic. And the Church of the Non-Binaries is gender is fluid. You can be whatever you want.

It changes maybe day to day. kind of like feeling. But that negates the idea that you should change anything about your body because whatever you change about your body is permanent. You're doing permanent things to your body to a healthy body. Yeah. And that doesn't seem logical to do certainly not to children. Yeah. Now, my daughter never wanted any of these things.

So that's the thing I think that is also misunderstood in the agreement that I feel like I was, you know, pushed into, I'm not sure that I had much of a choice. I signed an agreement that had a provision that prohibits any medicalization through gender medicine for my daughter. And I was happy to get that provision. And then the second thing that I asked for and got was communication by postal mail. And they tried to say that, no, I shouldn't have that, but I said, then you have to give me a restraining order because that's where we would be at that point. So they tried to cut off all communication and then they relented a little bit and said you can write letters.

And you lived 10 minutes away from her. I asked for letters. Oh, yeah. She's just up the road. Does she write you back? She hasn't written back in about a year. Her father responds. Actually, I don't think her father's actually responding.

I think it's, I know his writing because I was married to him for about 11 or 12 years. I'm pretty sure it's white. his wife is responding to my text messages. It's not his writing. So it's... Oh, you can text her? I can, no, I can text my ex-husband. Oh, okay.

To say, hey, for example, the last time I texted, I said, hey, it's Mother's Day. I haven't received a Mother's Day card since she left. I haven't received anything for Christmas, my birthday. Nothing, actually. It's as if I don't exist. And I'm told by my ex-husband that it's all my fault. And that if I would just accept this identity, then everything would be great. Unfortunately, I kind of learned that lesson early on.

Right. I tried that. Yeah. That's not what she wants. It does remind me, I don't know if you did this when you were little before you kind of understood a lot more. But I remember stealing like a sweater of my older sisters. And she came into the room and she asked me, did you take my sweater? and I said, no, no, of course not. I wouldn't take that. And of course you have this sick feeling.

It's awful because you're stuck in a lie. You're stuck in a situation where you know that you lied. You got to down. You were lying to avoid a conflict in that exact moment and then all of a sudden you're stuck in it. How do you get out of that without quite a bit of shame? Because you're then fearful of somebody then being angry, number one, that you took the sweater. And number two, that you lied about it. And you have all these people kind of, let's say, fighting against my sister to say, she said she didn't take it. Right.

And then all these people are fighting on your behalf over kind of a lie. I can imagine that my daughter is in this situation. I mean, the amount of money spent on this case is well over $150,000. Right. So I can imagine that if you start out with something like, my mom, I'm unsafe at home. And then all of a sudden everybody rushes to your aid. I'm not sure what you do after that. So I really, I genuinely feel for my daughter.

I can imagine that she is in quite a bit of distress about that. And she is about to turn 16 now? 16, yeah. I think her, I think I read her birthday is coming up. Yeah, in August. Yeah, this month. Yeah. And so for the past few years, you missed her 13th birthday.

I believe you said that this happened right before she was about to turn 13. Yeah, a month before. You missed her 14th birthday, 15th birthday, and now coming up on her 16th birthday. I know you described what it was like to not hear anything for Mother's Day, Christmas, your birthday, but what is it like for you? missing these milestones in your daughter's life? You have to remember that the day that you had, I have only one child. So the day that I gave birth is the anniversary of my motherhood. That's mine.

That's what you get. It is your child's birthday, but is also the anniversary of your motherhood. You will always have that. So really what we do is we have a, we have a parent. group and we share pictures of our children and kind of celebrate that, our motherhood. Yeah, it doesn't matter whether or not my child is kind of acknowledging her own birthday with me and our own relationship that we have had and will continue to have forever. I know what the day is.

And it's okay if she's in this actually really normal, angsty period of her teenage years. It's normal. What's not normal is adults facilitating the separation of us. Right. That doesn't make sense. And that's the wrong part. She's doing a normal thing. It's quite normal.

Right. And for those who are listening, I'm trying to hold it together because, um, It's just, I mean, that's the worst thing that can happen to you as a mother, really. I just can't imagine the separation from my kids by the state, by other adults who are supposed to be protecting them. And the way that you hold it together when you're talking about this and sound hopeful and so even-handed, I really respect while I know that this has probably been, I mean, a nightmare. A nightmare in so many ways. I think every mother or maybe even a non-parent can imagine just the depth of the pain. I mean, going back to the moment, and I talk about this a lot, I'm going to try to say this without just like breaking down in tears.

But sorry, you go back to the moment. Wow, I wasn't anticipating crime. But you go back to the moment when your kids are born and they like, they lay that baby on your chest. and you can't even describe like the tidal wave of love that hits you in that moment. And for an entity that does not know your child, has it been with your child, wasn't there in that moment, doesn't know your child's experiences, how their mind works, what's best for them to then separate you from that child. I mean, I just can't think of a greater evil than that.

And I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you have experienced that. Yeah, it's wrong. But like I said, I'm an adult. I can cope with that. People, the thing is, I, you asked earlier that I started talking about this. And I started talking about it because court is over. I mean, I signed an agreement that I don't feel like I had much of a choice.

I think Matt Walsh described it as a deal with the devil. I did agree to that. mostly to save my child from some more distress. But, I mean, she will grow up. And I don't want to scare people to say, you know, you could be kind of coerced into this situation also. But what I do tell people is, you're going to be okay. You know, if you cry on the floor like I did for hours and hours

and kind of not eat and not sleep and think that the world is, falling to pieces. After a while, nobody comes to save you. And then you just get up. Right. Because your body doesn't actually die. You would have to actively kill yourself. Yeah. I mean, your body is still breathing.

Your heart still beats and you get up. And the sun is still up. It comes up every morning. So all you have to do is wait for it. and it will be there. And I tell parents, something will change. Either you will change or something in the environment will change, probably both. Nothing will stay the same. So you cannot imagine that this would have happened five years ago.

You would never imagine that. That means that you cannot imagine what will be true in five years. You have to imagine that that will be. be good. Because I believe that people are good. I think all of these people, every single person believes that they are doing good things for children. They're just relying on kind of value systems and false premises. They're relying upon truths that are hollow. They're relying upon professionals who are just as human as they are. There's no special kind of, like I said, superhuman thing that you get when you get a certificate after so many years of training.

Human experience is still the greatest thing we have. We know our children very, very well. Those of us that are kind of have the capacity to really be present with our children, you know, like I can see that you are and that I have been. So you have to have hope that every single person is good and wants to do good things. You just have to reframe what it means to be good. And once you do that, then I think the environment can shift around my child. I may not be the person who kind of impacts my child and she can see things that she couldn't see before. I might do that for somebody else's kid. I don't know. But we just keep acting in ways that create good things in the world. And we know that those things will come true.

Maybe not for us, but for somebody. Well, I think that we agree on a lot and share the same hope. Now, I think we disagree on human nature. I do not believe that people are fundamentally good. I think people can do good things. I do not think that people naturally gravitate towards goodness. And unfortunately, I've learned a lot about the system and this industry. and this industry that is pushing a lot of the confusion in kids.

And while I do think that there are people who are misinformed, but while meaning, I think that there is a lot of malice. I think that there is a lot of nefarious intent behind it. Unfortunately, good and evil is a very real dichotomy in the world. And in a time when people try to push moral relativism and say, you can be whatever you want to, you can define good as you want to, you can define gender as you want to, the reality is, is that just like male and female exist, so does good and evil. And so I think we share a lot of commonalities. We might disagree on fundamentally kind of what human beings are. And I will say that

when we say good, I'm not saying good for others. I mean, if somebody thinks something is good, it may mean in a narcissistic way that it's good for them. I think that when we say people are doing good things, it's not necessarily good for the world. It's just their concept of what is good. It's in their best interest. Maybe it's good for them. And they think that they're kind of better than other people. Yeah. And if they get good things, they get more money, it's good. Yeah. And what happens, but they still think is good. Yes, yes. People have all kinds of ways to justify what they're doing. What happens when your daughter turns 18? I mean, I don't have her phone number.

I suppose I don't have any educational decision making, so I don't have any choice in where she goes to college or how much that costs me, to be really honest with you. I don't have any ability really to contact her other than postal mail. So I suppose I wait. And has she been on hormone therapy? No, she's not interested in any of that. I don't think she's ever had any, you know, body hatred or anything like that.

But she still identifies as a boy and non-binary right now. She's got really cool pronouns. So she has pronouns that are z-zer that start with an X. And that's super cool. Okay. So that's kind of evolved over the past few years, too. Yeah. Like I said, it's hard to pull off boy when you're sitting in front of a woman like me.

Yeah. So, you know, a lot of kids will then become this. They'll move from what I, what I just, you know, what Exelonzic describes as the, the Our Lady of Perpetual hormone replacement therapy where there's a binary, male, and they'll move into gender as fluid, the church of the non-binary. Because they can be anything. It's, you know, it's completely fluid. Right.

And that's, that's appealing. I can be anything I want any day. You know what that's called? It's called personality. Yeah. That's personality. Right. It is strange how, especially adolescents today, I mean, there are so many different flags,

so many different identities, and they're all called sexual identities. And they're so specific. Like, there was one, it was like, I think it's Demi or something where you like romantic love before you want to have sex with someone. I saw another one that was like, oh, you don't want, you want to, you want to have sex, but you don't want to have sex? I'm like, oh, so these are all like marginalized identities now rather than just like feelings and emotions that are all along the normal human spectrum. Right. I mean, these are normal adolescent feelings and even normal human feelings and experiences.

Yeah. But somebody else is putting a word to what you're thinking. I mean, it's exactly why you probably do your podcast is that you have people on and people talking. talk about their experiences and then they go, oh my God, I totally get that. And that's what's happening in all of those labels in a way. Now, are we asking kids questions that they don't quite understand yet? For sure. I mean, asking a five-year-old, their pronouns is, they can't even understand. It's too big of a burden. Right. Yeah. And it shouldn't even be happening anyway because, you know, pronouns are obviously based upon biological sex. It's something you're choosing. It's something that the wider society as a group gives to you.

Yeah. Now, are you, how would you describe yourself politically, religiously? One critique that, you know, the transactivists have is that, oh, anyone who criticizes transgenderism is just a right-wing fundamentalist Christian bigot. Does that describe you accurately? Oh, yeah, a right-wing Christian evangelical bigot. Yes, yes, yes. And, you know, I will say that, you know, I could get cooties by being on your podcast, right? I could get conservative cooties, which I'm totally okay with because, you know, I can go to any

hospital without any sign of illness like a gender clinic and get treatment for something that really doesn't exist. So I'm not worried about that. So I voted Democratic in every election since I was 18, and that includes primaries, you know, You know, I vote in school board elections, every single election. Even when I lived abroad, I did that. So I would describe myself, of course, as truly progressive, not the regressive men who put on dresses are women. Regressive, progressive thing.

I believe in some things that are, I think, quite out there. Like, I don't think that all kids need to go to school, for example. I think that we shouldn't have prisons. I think that we as a community. It's an unattainable goal, of course, but it's for sure a vision that community should kind of work with each other to educate children in a way that is practical. I believe in the original concept of unschooling where supportive adults kind of guide children and their education. So I know it sounds odd to be getting a PhD so I can.

tell people to drop out of school, but I think they'll listen to them. I say that. Yeah. Yeah. And you're not, do you have religious beliefs? No, no, I've never been a believer. I, you know, I never, I always kind of gravitated towards people who would go to church because they had some sort of moral backbone. So it was always nice to be around people who had some sort of principles and value system based upon the idea that many people will count it in some sort of religious idea, but to be honest, as a species, we have to work together with each other in order to survive. So we have to do good things for other people or else we won't continue as a species. That's just evolution. So that's never been a religious thing. I wasn't raised with any sort of religion. I've never been

a believer. But I don't mind going to somebody's church. I think it's kind of exciting. I've spoken in churches. Yeah. And to be honest, I think what's interesting is if I went to your church, if you go to church, I think you'd be fine having me there. I can sing the hymns. But when it comes to repeating the prayers, I think the concept is bearing false witness. And what's happening in transgender, the Church of Trans, as Exelonza calls it, is we are being asked to bear false witness to this idea that we do not believe in.

Yes. I don't, I don't, I think that's hypocrisy. Yes. Well, this is a Christian podcast and thankfully we believe that all truth is God's truth. So the scientific truth that you just pointed to in the reality of male and female is just as important as the theological reality that God made us in the beginning male and female. So that's both a theological for us and a scientific truth. And that's also one thing I love about Christianity. I believe in the redemption and the salvation that comes in Christ and the forgiveness of my sins,

but also the clarity that scripture gives us in the reality of male and female, that that is part of being made in his image. And that is also what the entire idea of Western civilization's rights is based on, that we are created by a God who gave us these inalienable rights because we are made in his image. But part of being made in his image is we read in the first. chapter of Genesis is being made male and female. So that's just another layer for Christians of why this is so important. In addition to caring for the vulnerable, especially vulnerable children,

I see this as another form of child sacrifice. And so Christians have always been in the business of trying to protect children from that. And that is, of course, part of why it's so important to me. But I have loved talking to people who don't have my same theological perspectives and still see the urgency of this issue, especially when it's so personal, like in your situation. So I'm just appreciative video. Oh, thank you. Somebody was just telling me the story of the two mothers and the baby, King Solomon, some story of that. Do you mind sharing that? Do you know that? Yes. So this is where you put me on the spot here, but this is where he's talking to, well, okay, here, let's, let's pause. let me make sure that I have the correct reference. To answer your question, I wanted to make sure that I got it correct and that I didn't just pull for memory, but that I actually read the scripture. So this is from First Kings 316. So this is Solomon's wisdom. Obviously Solomon, we know from scripture was a very wise king. He asked for wisdom. God gave it to him. So verse 16, then two prostitutes came to the king and stood before him. The one woman said, oh my lord, this woman and I live in the same house.

and I give birth to a child while she was in the house, or I gave birth to a child while she was in the house. Then on the third day after I gave birth, this woman also gave birth and we were alone. There was no one else with us in the house. Only we two were in the house. And this woman's son died in the night because she lay on him. And she arose at midnight and took my son from beside me while your servant slept and laid him at her breast and laid her dead son at my breast. When I rose in the morning to nurse my child, behold, he was dead.

And when I looked at him closely in the morning, behold, he was not the child I had born. but the other woman said, no, the living child is mine and the dead child is yours. Then the king said, the one says, this is my son that is alive and your son is dead. And the other says, no, but your son is dead and my son is the living one. And the king said, bring me a sword. So a sword was brought before the king. And the king said, divide the living child in two and give half to the one and half to the other. Then the woman whose son was alive said to the king, because her heart yearned for her son,

oh, my lord, give her the living child and by no means put him to death. But the other said, he shall neither be mine nor yours, divide him. Then the king answered and said, give the living child to the first woman and by no means put him to death. She is his mother. And all Israel heard of the judgment that the king had rendered and they stood in awe of the king because they perceived that the wisdom of God was in him to do justice. And that's justice. I mean, I have had to render my own justice to my child by giving her something that they were not willing to give her. nobody was going to stop her if she wanted to do anything and, you know, kids' minds change.

So I can bear that kind of being away from my child. But what I cannot bear is a future in which she could possibly change her body in ways that are permanent. I can't bear that because she has to live with that beyond what I will be alive. So that's a choice that I make. It's a bit of a sacrifice on my own part because I can bear it. And she didn't really have to bear that. She shouldn't have to bear any of this. But in my case, I didn't want to fight anymore.

I didn't want to harm her psychologically through that distress. She had already kind of suffered the divorce between her dad and I. So I didn't want her to have any more suffering. by continuing around this. So I think that, you know, she'll grow and change in many ways. And at least I have that provision. And I encourage other parents to have that provision in any kind of parenting agreement. Yeah.

And tell us about your organization or the organization that you're a part of, partners for ethical care. Yeah. So we formed that organization almost going on two years ago. And we do two things. We support efforts and we raise awareness around the affirmation model, meaning the idea that you affirmation children to prevent some sort of suicide or self-harm. So we don't believe that those two premises are true, and we're fighting against that. And of course, I think your listeners probably know this is part of an entire industry called the gender industry. this idea that you somehow have to change your body because of feelings inside of your head and body,

because of some sort of thought inside your mind that you need to change your physical self. That's just built on quicksand. So we're fighting against that industry. There's people making billions of dollars off the distress of children and adults. So we wish to abolish that entire industry. I personally have testified in state legislative hearings. I don't mind going in front of people and talking about this issue. I say, what are you going to do, take away my kids?

Yeah. The worst thing that can happen to you has already. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm really not scared. I'm not scared when people call me a transphobic bigot. It's kind of meaningless. It doesn't have any impact on me.

Yeah. Even being on your podcast, I guess I don't really care. how people label me for that because you're a human being and I'm a human being and I think that I can have a conversation that's pretty great with just about anybody. Yeah. And we've had lots of people on. I mean, we have people on all the time, atheists, agnostics, leftists. Of course, we've had Megan Murphy, we've had Kathleen Stock. We've had Genevieve Glock. I don't know if you're familiar. Yeah. So other transphobic biggest like me. But have you had a transphobic parent? I mean, that's really like a transphobic bigot parent. Well, I've had some

A D-transitioner who, of course, is very transphobic himself, the worst kind. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I totally know what you mean. It really does just roll off whenever I get some kind of one-star review from someone. Or I saw the other day, I wrote a book and I talk about this whole, what I think is

a destructive concept of gender identity. And this person, I guess they thought that they were really sticking it to me. They posted like a page of my book and, you know, gave it a one-star review saying this is transphobic. And I'm like, you think I care? You think I care about that label? I don't. And no one that I care about cares about that label. It really is meaningless at this point.

Yeah. So the part, I mean, part of the work that we do is kind of being public and talking to people. So we each kind of have our arenas within partners for ethical care. So I tend to do the more pedestrian talking to regular people about my experience, about the entire concepts in a way that is, I can't believe I'm saying this, relatable. Yes. In a way that people can understand, you know, you put it in a context that makes sense within a certain frame. And so I can frame things in a way that I think people understand. I don't mind speaking publicly about this issue.

I think generally my look tends to signal to people that I'm not a person who believes in traditional gender roles. So that's a little bit helpful. It dispels a bit of the myths that you were referring to. Of course, Alex Aaron is part of the founder group. of women of partners for ethical care. And she does, she's gender mapper. So she maps all of the gender clinics. We have another woman, Jennifer Crone.

Her daughter was kind of sucked in through the school system. And the schools hid a bunch of information about her, from her, about her daughter. And so there's other people who are within the organization of partners for ethical care, some public, some working behind the scenes, all women kind of fighting against this gender industry. So our whole function is to make connections for people. So people will contact us and they'll say, hey, I'm looking for some resource in some way. And we then share that resource with them, try to connect them with others like them. Because the general idea is that you're not alone in this.

I mean, nobody is alone in this. There are others like you who have your same thoughts and feelings who think that what's happening to children is wrong. A recent project that we started in collaboration with some other people who are interested, and supporting it is transition justice. So that's a website that really we bring in information from people who are either formally trans, ex-trans, former trans kids, detransitioners, however they wish to describe their experience. And we try to connect them with number one resources to support them coming out of this kind of trauma. And then secondly, to try to connect them with legal assistance to then go forward.

possibly with some sort of lawsuit. So transition justice is really helping that. We have more and more people kind of coming toward it and we're trying to make connections to all kinds of attorneys. This is completely new. So nobody has really gone into this arena yet. And we're trying to make that happen. Somebody has to do that.

And there's nothing magical about our skills. I mean, we're just human beings talking to other human beings and trying to make things happen in the world. So that's the work that we do. I think we enjoy it. We tend to be, I've noticed, the only nonprofit, non-religious, nonpartisan organization who's speaking at legislative hearings. And that's a bit disappointing, to be really honest. But I like it when individuals come forward and just talk about what they think about this issue. I tell people some of the most basic things that you can do is if somebody asked your pronouns, you should be a polite.

midwesterner and say no thank you. Yeah, that's it. No, thank you. No, thank you. Well, I really encourage people to check out partners for ethicalcare.org. They can see how they can donate and get involved. I know there are a lot of people constantly asking, but what can I do? What can I do? Well, this is one thing that you can do. We talk a lot about raising a respectful ruckus on this show, and this is also one of the hills that I say that people should be willing to die on. This is a big one. You can't die on every hill. But to me, the stakes are so high. There's so much on the line that this is the thing. This is one thing that is willing to, that we should be willing to fight for. So thank you so much. Thanks for using your voice. Thanks for using your story. I know that that's not easy. And while you are not a believer, since I am, I am going to be praying for you, your daughter, this situation, that redemption, that goodness would come from it. And again, I'm thankful that you took the time today to talk to us. first thank you i appreciate it so much all right i told you that you were going to enjoy that conversation please share it if it was meaningful or helpful to you at all especially if there

are other parents who are going through um something like this and of course we know from um as believers that god is completely and totally sovereign that god gives that he takes away blessed be the name of the lord that no plan of the lord jobe 42 tells us can be thwarted. So as nightmarish, as this story is, we can trust in the faithfulness of God and that one day, as Psalm 37, I think tells us so well, he will make all things right and all injustice will be corrected. That is the hope that we ultimately have. I still think that we can make a big difference here in this life, raising a respectful ruckus and remembering that politics matter because people matter and advocating on behalf of the most vulnerable, but eternally,

We know that all things will be set right. So we do not work as people who have no hope. We move toward the goal of improvement for society and advocacy for the most vulnerable, knowing that one day Jesus will ultimately win this battle. I also wanted to give a very important shout out to Kelsey Bolar. She is the journalist who first wrote about this story. And she works for the Independent Women's Forum. She wrote this story for The Daily Signal.

I'm very thankful for the work that Kelsey does. She is incredibly courageous and just a great writer too. I encourage you to follow Kelsey. She flagged this story for me originally. So I'm very thankful and just wanted to give a shout out to her. I'll link that original reporting in the description of this episode. Thank you guys so much for listening. We will be back here tomorrow probably talking about everything that's going on in Taiwan with Nancy Pelosi and China.

Are we going to war? What the heck is happening? And by what the heck is happening, I mean, what is really happening that the mainstream media isn't telling us? So hopefully we'll get into that tomorrow and I'll see you guys then. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers

wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.