Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 683 | How to Date, Marry, and Parent Biblically | Guest: John Mason

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

Today we're joined by husband, father, and co-founder of "God First, Life Second" John Mason to discuss biblical dating, marriage, modesty, and morality. We talk about his journey to salvation and how he ended up working in the church. John tells the story of how he met his wife (on Facebook!) and how they trusted God with boundaries. He shares the importance of finding time for your spouse even when surrounded by kids, and we discuss the benefits of homeschooling and prioritizing discipleship with your kids. Then we look at some of the reasons our culture has placed such an emphasis on LGBT issues and how Christians have adopted the world's model on dating and sex and ultimately compromised their beliefs. --- Today's Sponsors: My Patriot Supply — prepare yourself for anything with long-term emergency food storage. Go to PrepareWithAllie.com to save 20% on a 3-Month Emergency Food Kit. Hunter Douglas — get your free Style Gets Smarter design guide at HunterDouglas.com/ALLIE today! HealthyCell — get 20% off your first order at HealthyCell.com/ALLIE, use promo code 'ALLIE'! Donors Trust — the tax-friendly way to simplify your charitable giving, without compromising your values. Visit www.donorstrust.org/allie. --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this

D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. How do we dress, date, get married, parent in a way that honors the Lord, in a way that is countercultural. That is what we are discussing today with my friend John Mason. He is the co-founder of God first, life second. He is the creator of I Won't Stay Silent, which is a campaign about the struggle that men have with pornography and loss. He's doing amazing work. He says an incredible example,

especially in how he conducts himself and chooses his words on social media. This conversation is going to be so encouraging for you. I'm excited for you to hear it. This episode is brought to you by our friends, of course, at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com slash alley. that's good ranchers.com slash alley.

John, thanks so much for joining us. For those who may not know, who may not follow you on Twitter, can you tell us who you are and what you do? Yes, yes. My name is John Mason. I'm a youth ministry director. I've been doing that for about a year and a half.

And so before that, I was an IT security analyst for about 10 years professionally. Did that for a while. And now I'm doing youth ministry director. Now I am a youth ministry director. And so I also have a online community ministry called God First Life Second, where I basically continue to put out information in truth about how we

are to contend to faith as millennials and also specifically as parents as well, that's very important and how we are to represent Christ. So that is what I do. Yeah. Tell me about the transition from being in IT to being in ministry. How did you determine that that's what God was calling you to do? Yeah, that's a very interesting story. So I had came to visit where the church is. I'm working at now multiple times over the years. And one time I came around 2016 and it was just a strong tug on me that I need to move here and I need to relocate and I need to go ahead and go into full-time ministry. Of course, my first answer was no. I don't think that's, I don't think that's God. Because that's just how it goes. And so after a while, talked to my wife. And then we decided to

make the move when we did, we actually dealt with very, very hard consequences where we were. flooding, we had put our house on the market. It was really, really tough. And so we had to go through all of that, overcome that. And then we finally made the move in 2020 into 2020. So it was one of those challenging, very challenging transitions. It was not easy. But all four of my kids at the time, four kids, we all moved up and we're still adjusting. Yeah. And before that, you were, you were a believer. Have you always been a believer, like raised a Christian? Or what does that journey look like. So I was raised in church. I've been church since I was four years old. Church I was in, however, was not preaching the gospel, did not preach Christ, did not. It was more of a nondonimational

kind of word of faith church. And so I really didn't. Word of faith. Is that like charismatic? More charismatic. It wasn't like all like full charismatic, but it was like bits and pieces of charismatic. So like prosperity gospel. More prosperity. I would say that. More prosperity gospel. And so in that church from four all right up to about 17. And it wasn't until about 17. And it wasn't until that about 17. somebody from a different country came in and did a small Bible study in that church that went over John chapter 1. And in that small Bible study at 17, like I say, after hearing that message at the beginning of church my entire life,

I actually came to belief in Christ. And so that was, you know, very shocking to hear that. You've been church your whole life if you don't know who Christ is, but that's how God ordained it. Wow, that's really interesting that it took all that time that you were in church. You didn't really ever hear the gospel. which is what the church is for, and it just took one person showing you scripture. Yeah, from a different country, by the way.

For a different country, it wasn't even from that city. And, you know, that's such a, that in itself is a good lesson because it does seem like a lot of churches today. They think in order to draw you to Christ, they have to tell you what you want to hear. They have to tickle your ears. They have to kind of satisfy or satisfy just a few worldly desires or check a few worldly boxes. And then that will attract you enough. and then they'll actually share the gospel. All you needed was scripture.

All you needed was the gospel. One or two verses. And that opened up my eyes to Christ, clearly. And isn't that such a more simple task of the church too, that you don't have to worry about keeping up with the world? You really can stick with the truth that has been true and sufficient for thousands of years. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

No question about it. And it's funny because in our culture in America, you know, we run into the idea of being American, being a part of the culture. and being, you know, like you said, worldly, and that becomes a priority. And that was a priority in that church. It really was. And so I'm just grateful to God that he sent who he sent to come and do that Bible study. And now I'm here talking to you.

And how did you meet your wife? Yeah, so very interesting story as well. I met my wife actually, believe it or not, on Facebook. Okay. Started with an inbox, okay? We were friends like your friend people on Facebook. You don't even know who they are. And then I posted something, something about, you know, a women's hair or something like

that and it was something generic. And she inboxed me. And she was like, hey, what do you mean by that? What are you trying to say? This is that? Kind of like checking me on my post. And so I'm like, who is this? I don't even know what this person is.

That's how I got started, ended up exchanging numbers. From that, believe it or not, it was changing numbers. We had a lot in common. We had the same convictions about our faith in Christ. And so we exchanged numbers and then had our first conversation. And from there, we basically just kicked it off. Now, we didn't do any dates, by the way, not one single date. We got to know each other by going.

and group like events with other believers and other friends. So she lived in your same area. They lived in the same area. And so you all started just hanging out together kind of with your friends from church. Yep. From church. Yep. Got to know each other through that.

And about a year later, we got married. Yeah. We knew it was the person. So tell me a little bit more about that process because before we talk about like parenthood, homeschooling, we're going to talk about all those things. But I'm just curious because that's not the typical dating experience even for most Christians. That's not, you know, not the dating experience that I had with my. my husband. I'm very thankful that we got married when and how we did. But of course, looking back,

I'm like, oh, could we have protected ourselves more? Could we have been wiser in our dating relationship by doing what you just described? Because we spent a lot of alone time together. Could it have been healthier and better if we had spent more time in group? So tell me what that was like for y'all. Yeah. So what happened was that both her and I were both constantly doing that. And so it kept failing. We had boyfriend, girlfriend, and it kept failing, failing, failing, failing, dating, trying to figure out who's the person and then doing it in our own strength, doing our own thing. And it didn't work. So both her and I

were like, okay, we're done with dating. We're not dating anymore. We're just going to trust God, literally trust God, that he's going to bring my spouse to me. And we'll know who he or she is by trusting God and walking with the Lord in our relationship with him. And so because of those failures that happened prior to what happened to where we got to where we got to know each other that those boundaries were up really strong for both of us we kind of went through the same thing and so those boundaries allowed us to both at the same time agree upon hey this we're not trying to talk because I wasn't even

I really stopped looking I stopped looking after the last relationship that fell I just stopped looking and say okay god I know you're going to bring me my wife so what I'm going to do is I'm just just trust you and I know that if I trust you and walk with you then I know I'm going to get exactly who you have for me like it won't be anything to guess it'll happen the way it's supposed to And that's literally what happened in less than a year of me trying to stop with the person I was with before my wife. Less than a year, here comes my future wife. And so it was just walking in faith. We talk about walking by faith.

We do that a lot of times with houses, cars, a job, walk by faith to get this, to get your, you know, whatever you think is best for you. But we kind of negate that when it comes to walking by faith when it comes to relationships. When we are Christians, we think we have all the answers. And sometimes that ends up putting us in bad positions and we don't realize until later. And so we just both trusted God and just God, you know, led it spiritually. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Did y'all have any one-on-one dates when you were in a relationship?

After we were engaged. So you just got to know her in groups with people. Yep. On the phone. Okay, on the phone calls. And that's how, because some people I think would ask, how do you really get to know that person at all? Like, how can you get to the point of knowing you want to spend the rest of your life with that person if you're only in groups?

So it's just a lot of conversations in those settings. Yep. A lot of conversations, a lot of time, understanding each other, what was important to us. That was an important thing. Our intentions about marriage, those things were all discussed, and those things were understood in those conversations and in those group outings. So, yeah. And what do you say to those, the Christian men and women? There's a lot of, it's mostly Christian women who listen to this podcast.

who are like, okay, I hear what you're saying about trusting God, but man, it's just not happening for me. And there's got to be something I can do or like, how do I make this happen? And, you know, it's not necessarily God's plan for every single person to get married. So, like, what's your encouragement or your wisdom to young Christians who find themselves in that position? They really want to get married and find the person that they hope God has for them. Right. But they just feel so frustrated and hopeless.

Yeah, I would encourage them, number one, to look at yourself the way God sees you. Yeah. So if you're single and your desire to be in a relationship, God knows that way deeper than you do, way deeper than you do. So you have that desire, but God knows what you really need and what you want. He knows it way better than you. So if you say, okay, God, you know what I need and I want. Therefore, your word, and I go back to the scripture, your word says that basically lets us know that the man will initiate that. I don't have to go out and put myself out on the market. I don't have to act like this is something. I got to chase or go after. No, I can actually prepare myself to be a wife. Start looking at mine. What are the things I need to be looking at to make sure I'm lined up to be a wife? What are some concerns, some issues, some past traumas. Where are some things I need to make sure are holding me and just continue working on that

and continue to focus on their relationship with the Lord. And as you walk that out, God and his providence, by what he is designed for you, by his ordination, will bring forth your husband. He will be drawn to you. Because God knows your desire way more than you do. So I would encourage those young ladies to not use the culture standards of putting yourself out there to try to attract a man rather than just use your time with the Lord as a time of preparation to be a white. It really is a walk-by-faith thing. It can be something that's going to happen next year, next week. It could be something that's going to happen two years from now.

It could be five years from now, but you have to trust God at that time of your emotions, your will, your passions, your passions, your desires. All those things have to be trusted in God's hands before it's putting a man's hand. Now your wife did message you, but I guess she wasn't necessarily pursuing you. Oh, not at all. She was like me. Like, matter of fact, when we did meet in person and stuff, she was very off-putting. It was, there was nothing. She was trying to be like, oh, yeah, you see me?

Because she was, she had it with being in relationships and it kept just being horrible. So she just was not doing it, period. I was in the same boat. So yeah, she wasn't, she just embossed me literally to ask me a question. She was doing that to other people too. That's just how she is. She's like, so what you're trying to say? You know, she wanted to get down to the bottom of the truth.

Yeah. That's why she advised me, yeah. And now you'll have five kids together, age nine to 11 months. You said three boys and three girls. Three girls and two boys. So tell us just kind of what that has been like, raising kids in this crazy world, raising five kids. And I believe you homeschool all of them, right? Correct.

So tell us just the challenges and the triumphs that comes with that. Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of challenges. Yeah. a lot of challenges. So we had our first kid 2013. So we married in 2011. So two years into a member, we didn't spend a whole lot of long time. Yeah. So. Big adjustment.

Yeah. So here comes a child two years into our marriage. And so we, you know, being a parent, do what you got to do. And then it comes to next child, next child. So we basically been having kids to be married, pretty much. It's been almost little to no gap longer than a year and a half. Yeah. Where we haven't had a child come. So

yeah. So it's basically been being a parent. stepping up to the plate, doing what needs to be done, trusting the Lord with each child, because each individual child has their own need and issue and concern, each child. And so each one of them needs certain attention, each one of them need to be disciples in a certain way.

We have to make sure they learn it in a certain way, so on and so forth because homeschooling. So, yeah, it's been a very big challenge. My wife and I have struggled to find a long time. It's difficult with five kids. And they're all at home. And they're all at home. Continually.

And so we have to be, that a priority and I would say that to any other couple who also is in the same position you have to find like you might be intentional by finding time to be alone whether it's you know time when the kids go to bed so on and so forth and we try to build our relationship off that and so yeah it's been it's been challenging it's been challenging I would say the homeschooling part is more I'll say homeschooling is more because we what we do is we do an online homeschooling so for our nine-year-old and our seven-year-old they do online they were in a charter school by way. When we first moved to move with right now, we're in a charter school. And so that charter school

was option C. Option B was going to Christian education school and then option A was homeschooling. But the time we just couldn't do it. So we put them in the charter school, couldn't find Christian education. And so we pulled them out of that place because as we know what's going on right now in schools, it just, it wasn't working. So we pulled them out. Now we're doing online homeschool education. And what curriculum do you all use if you don't mind me asking? Yeah, it's the home school online curriculum is Enlightenment Academy. And so they have their own. And so the one that we're using is Horizons for the first grader.

But my son who just finished first grade was Horizons. And so he went through that. It was good. I think it was really good. My wife enjoyed it. And then my daughter is doing online with everything's online. There's no books, all the curriculum's coming online. I'm not sure what curriculum they're using for the second grade.

Yeah. Or third grade. She's in third. Yeah. And so you decided to make. this decision because the charter school wasn't working but she mentioned that even before you put them in charter school your y'all's first choice was homeschool why why did y'all decide that that was what y'all wanted to do we feel like homeschooling is number one is the primary way to educate and disciple

your children because of the dangers is out in schools right now and we're aware of that because where we go to church that's that's something that's put in the forefront and i'm thank god for that but And so we're aware of the danger. So we went to homeschool because that's the primary. Now, at the ages that they are and because we had just had another child, it was challenging. So we said, let's try this charter schools. We had a charter school where we were that we moved from. It's really, really good.

A lot of teachers there were believers. And it had just got started before we moved, like literally months. And so our daughter was there and it was wonderful. And so we couldn't find that where we're at now. And we tried it. It didn't work. So it was like, let's just do homeschool. Let's make it work. And so that's why we're doing it now.

A lot of people say that they really want to homeschool their kids, but they just can't afford it. What do you say to people who say it's too expensive? We can't do it. Yeah, I would say, first thing is you need pray. If you're going to prioritize educating your children, disciplining them as well, because that's what the whole point of education is discipleship. So as you're doing that, you're prioritizing. that you need to pray to the Lord. Lord, this is what I desire to do for the children that you bless me with.

This is my desire. You pray and you ask the Lord to lead you and guide you to make that happen. And if that doesn't happen, there's other options available. Do you have to do the best you can with what you have? But the primary thing is this. You are the primary disciple of your children. Like, that's your role. That's your responsibility.

That's not the school's job. That's not the Christian education school job. That's not the charter school. That's not. It's your job to make sure your children know. If you keep that in your mind, then decisions you make will then be, I think, more God glorifying. If you keep in mind that God gave us this as a responsibility. So whatever decision I make after that, if I have to sacrifice, change jobs.

If I have to do something else, if I have to go get extra jobs, whatever they need to do in your, every household is different. Then you do that to make sure God is getting the glory and these children that God bless you with are being primarily disciple by you and not by some outside cultural institution. and you know. Yeah. And I know a lot of parents who reach out to me whenever we talk about homeschooling and they always want me to say this from them to parents who are worried about the financial aspect of it

is that you can do what God calls you to do. You can do what you set out to do. Things that seem impossible, as you were just saying, are made possible by God. And it just depends on what is most important. Now, as you also said, every family is different.

So I'm not speaking to every single situation. Right. But in the same way that, in a similar way, that say you aren't working out because you're like, I don't, I don't have time. I don't have time to exercise. And then you decide to. And you're like, where did all this extra time come from? Well, it's actually just because you determined that that was a priority.

You determined that working out was more important than scrolling on your phone for 30 minutes or sleeping in for 30 minutes. And it's not that there's new time in the day. it is that you decided that you could do it. And so you decided to do it. It's the same way with anything, but especially when it comes to disciplining your kids. If you decide that it is more important for your kids to be disciples at home

than making the extra $50,000 or whatever it is, you'll make it work. People who make very little money make it work every day. Yeah, absolutely. That's a really good point. Yeah. And tell us a little bit more about how you guys navigate as a couple, the different challenges that you were talking about in homeschooling your kids,

like how do you encourage one another? How do you kind of stay focused on the task at hand when sometimes it probably does seem easier to just say, you know what, we could just send them to public school and not worry about this. Yep, for sure. So one of our children, Uzziah, he is, he just got diagnosed autism. And so he's five. And so that's our biggest challenge, getting him therapy and trying to get him to speak because he's not verbal. that and trying to homeschool all the kids is very, very challenging. It's very, very challenging. So my wife is an amazing woman.

And she takes on that challenge because to her, these are my children. I want to make sure they're safe. I want to make sure they're disciple. I want to make sure these things are happening for them at the best level they possibly can be. And that's just who she is. And she'll give up everything she can to do that. She's an amazing woman. And so those things are all coming together at the same time.

It's very, very challenging. So to encourage each other, what we have to do is we have to basically bring it back to the scripture. We have to bring it back to what God's calling is for our lives as a wife, as a husband, as a mother, as a father. If we bring it back to that, that's the source. That's the root when those times get really hard, they do get hard. We can go back and be encouraged to know that this is a season. God has blessed us with these children for this season. All the challenges that are there are there because God ordained them to be there.

It's not an accident, right? We're not running to these things because it just popped up. They're here because God has allowed them to be here to strengthen us, to make our family who we are. And so we use those biblical foundations, those biblical ideas to kind of strengthen us, to be able to get through the challenges and the hard times of homeschool. Are you discouraged by the seeming inability or unwillingness of a lot of Christians to go back to scripture, not when it comes.

to necessarily just like the challenges they face. But when it comes to a lot of the cultural issues that you and I both talk about, that you tweet about, that primarily for the Christian, they're not cultural, they're actually theological issues. We're talking about gender and abortion and marriage, sexuality, dating. Are you ever discouraged by how Christians seem to be more worldly on these issues than biblical? Yeah, absolutely. It's, I mean, the statistics that are out from Barnah and other people who do statistics, other universities that do statistics. I mean, it's clearly showing that a biblical worldview is just not a priority amongst Christians for majority, people who profess to be Christians.

And that's reflecting in how we just absorb and take on as a culture, Christian culture, these ideologies and these ideas that are completely anti-Christ, anti-God. It is very discouraging. And so that's part of the reason why I try to do everything I can, with my platform that God has blessed me with, which is awesome. I know you do the same thing to the platform God has blessed you with. It's to continue to profess the truths of God and continue to point people back to the standard of Christ because that's all we can do.

It is, it is discouraging. It's really difficult to watch because it's a majority thing. It's a majority. And we're talking about parents. So he's like, you're a parent. This should be important to you, right? You should be like, this is something that you'd be like, okay, I have to look at this from a lens from which God gave me to be able to disciple these kids. but many unfortunately are not not doing it yeah why do you think the issue of LGBTQ gender what people

refer to as sexual orientation that seems to be a subject that for a lot of professing Christians they just don't want to be clear on they'll kind of you know off the skate they'll beat around the bush or they will just 100% compromise because oh well god is love and we're just called to love and god will take care of the rest whatever that may be right why do you think that is an issue that is so difficult for a lot of Christians to be clear on. Yeah, I think it's an issue because we just, and I'm just going to say this, we don't have a spiritual backbone. A lot of Christians would rather just kind of conform, which is not what the Bible says we're supposed to do, supposed to be transformed, but they would rather conform because it's easier. Yeah. So if I,

if I don't bow to the LGBTQ agenda, if I don't align myself up with the ideas of, like you said, love is love, if I don't line myself up with that, then I don't line myself up with that, then I I'm going to be looked at as those names that they call everybody who doesn't do that. And I'm going to be looked at as this. And my job may not like this because I posted this. And so it's all these compromises that allow you. And so one of the things that I'll say this that are happening right now amongst American culture, I mean Christian culture is that we've adapted all these ideologies and beliefs and kind of put them into one and said Christian.

We've adapted progressivism, liberalism. we've adapted and pulled from, you know, some Eastern meditation type, you know, we've adapted all these different religions and ideas and said, well, I'm also a Christian, but I'm a Christian. But your worldview says all these religions, all these beliefs are all the same. Like, for example, what happened with the sexual revolution, how we went into where we are now, we just kind of adapted with the flow. Instead of going back to Scripture and saying what sexuality is based on the word,

we just say, hey, you know, we've been doing this. We've been doing boyfriend and girlfriend. We've been doing dating like this. We've been doing, you know, it's so. for two men to want to beat each other and get married, that's okay. It's nothing wrong with that. That's their bit. And so it's just ideas and concepts and ideas that come at you and you just adapt them and culturally accept them rather than go back to the word. And the statistics show that most Christians are okay with that. And so I think that's really the issue.

You know, I don't think a lot of people link it to what you just did that it kind of goes back to Christian compromise on dating, how we kind of have adopted. the world's definitions or like the world's model of dating and relationships and sex, I think that we kind of are more tolerant of that. But really, that does lead to a lot of compromise on these kind of LGBTQ issues because it does have to do. It all goes back to not trusting what God says about the body, what God says about sex, what God says about gender, what God says about gender roles. I mean, it's also feminism and all different things that have.

infiltrated the church, even I would say the conservative church in some ways. And that really is kind of what placed us on shaky ground when it comes to the rest of the sexual revolution. And a lot of people don't think about it like that. They think it's, oh, it's fundamentalist to say that, you know, that Christian men and women should date a certain way or save themselves until marriage. But it's all kind of connected, right? All kind of connected. What do you think about, and this is, sorry to like spring this on you. So, But I think it was Joshua Harris. I think that was his name who originally wrote,

I Kiss Dating Goodbye, which kind of like, Yeah, I saw some of it. Yeah, I mean, it kind of set up a lot of Christians for doing the whole like courting arrangement, a little bit of what you talked about that you did with your wife without going on these one-on-one dates. Well, he has since like abandoned it. He doesn't even know if he's a Christian anymore. He's apologizing for that.

Right. What do you think about that? And people who say that, oh, purity culture in the church or pro-cording, whatever in the church is actually damaging and oppressive and bad. Yeah, that's crazy. I don't, Joshua Harris, I don't know why he decided to do all of that and recant what he said. I don't know his intentions were just to write a book and make some money and not really truly reflect biblical, you know, characteristics about relationships and biblical standards. Maybe that's what it was. but I mean at the end of the day

you either believe in the authority of scripture for your life or you don't. Yeah. If you claim to be a Christian, your faith has to be founded on something outside of being in the culture of America because America's going to come and go. It has to be something outside of, you know, today in 2023, you know,

2022. It has to be something greater, something that's more fundamental, something that's more foundational. And that has to be scripture. So if it's scripture that I'm founding on that I'm going back to Genesis and I'm looking at how God put a man and woman together and they become

become one. And if that's the foundation, then everything else is an add on. It's an add on. No matter what the culture does, it's an add on. So I think it's a lack of discipleship inside the Christian culture, inside Christianity in America. Discipleship

is not happening. Therefore, the authority of scripture is not there. What's there is the authority of culture. And so you just adapt. And you just do what the culture does and it's normal. And so since it's normal, whatever comes from that normal, which usually destroys lives,

makes people worse when they get married. It's basically practicing for divorce, essentially. All the boyfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend, girlfriend, breakup. God didn't design us for that. He didn't design us for that. That's not what we're designed, like he said in Genesis. One, a man and a woman, come together, become one. So if you're becoming one with multiple people,

over and over again, something's wrong with that. That's dysfunction, right? And so we don't, nobody tells us that. Nobody instructs us that in the church, because we don't talk about it. And so because we're not doing that, we just grow with the culture. We just go up with the culture.

And the culture is destroying itself where we are now. Like you said, we led up to where we are now and we're just rolling with them. Instead of being the light and the darkness, right, instead of shining forth the truth with our lives

and living the standard of scripture, which is being married, coming together, building the family to family unit and prioritizing that in your life, not being with a whole bunch of different people and then coming together with one person later on.

you know and so it's and if you look at the results of that i talk about this all the time on twitter you look at the results of that it's just a bunch of damaged people i'm one of them i did the same thing it's just a bunch of damaged people and people think that when you do that when you do the boyfriend girlfriend thing you try out try out try out try out and it's all going to be good when you're getting your 30s and get married all that trying out just goes with you like because you're designed to be again one man one woman come one that's the doubt that's the design that's the purpose so you're taking that all the baggage that comes with doing it in a perverse way.

Yeah. And it comes with you, right? Because the Bible talks about sexual sin being one of the only sins when you're sitting against your own body and against God. So when you take that seriously, you can't do what the culture is doing. Because you know what the consequences and the prices are. Yeah. I think that some people, they look back at their experience with what is typically derided as purity culture. Yeah.

And they see some legitimate issues with it, which I can see that. There's like a gracelessness and a, and illegalism detached from our real, true motivations for purity, which is love for God and his word. And so some people were seriously burned by that. They were told that if you messed up, then you're like damaged goods. No one's going to want you. God is mad at you. I read, there was a book called Datable that I read growing up that basically compared a person to a used car. So the less, you have less and less value, the more that you've done. So that's not pro-gospel.

But then swinging the other direction, which is what I think that we've done, which is, well, it doesn't matter what you do, do whatever. And you'll be fine. And God loves everything that you do no matter what. So you kind of already have, but once again, kind of bring us to the middle. What is the biblical perspective on pursuing purity truly as a Christian? Yeah, I think you kind of stated it's really just pursuing God and pursuing holiness. If you do that as an individual believer in Christ, if God is the number one priority in your life

and whatever you do, whether it's being in a relationship, whether it's getting a job, whatever you decide to do, it's to please the Lord. If you keep that at the forefront as the priority in your mind and your heart, then whatever you do next, whatever you pray about next, whatever you desire next, will then therefore align up with his word. I think that's what it is. And I think that, um, the culture building, a purity culture thing. Like you said, the legalism part has destroyed more hearts and minds than it should have. It's it. The, the intentions were good, right? You know, do it the way God has said. But yeah, you're not going to get anybody to do that when you're doing it legalistically.

It should be grace. Like you said, should be led by the spirit in the word of God. Your desire to please God. That's what I think the, what's missing. Is that? And so here's the issue. We're not teaching enough about God. If we teach the attributes of God, if we're teaching people who God is, we talk about God, we sing songs about God,

we do all the things that are kind of like externally, you know, we do those things, do religious acts and religious sayings, but they don't really know this God. Not only knowledge, but also experiential. Yeah. Both of those things are important. So if you got the experience of God,

because you're saved and you have the Holy Spirit in you, and then you know God who he is based on a revelation of God's word, then those two things will give you a passion for God. And through that, you'll then live in a way that says, yeah, no, my purity is what it is because I know God. I know Christ. And that's what I think has been missing is that not knowing God, it's just kind of like out.

It's kind of like just religious fluff, rather than this awesome, real, authentic, powerful experience of the revelation of God's word and walking with the Lord. I think it's the same thing with modesty. A lot of people now deride the idea of modesty and like a woman covering up or dressing modestly because they think that any form of modesty is legalism. But it's the same thing. It actually, modesty is actually speaking to a state of the heart that is then manifested through what we wear.

So it's not exactly about how many inches above your knee your skirt is. although those things matter. I mean, there are standards, but that's not, the external is not primary. It's secondary. It's a consequence of what's in the heart. Have you found that talks about modesty are difficult to have or are not met with very much, like a very good reception from even professing Christians? Yeah, absolutely.

Unfortunately, I think it's a adapting to the, again, cultural standard. feminism and the idea that it's about you. Everything's about you. It's about what you want to do. It's your body. Yeah, your comfort. Yeah. Right. But if you're a Christian, it's not your body. It's actually the Lord's body if you look in that scripture. And so from a biblical perspective, you know, that's not the case. So if the Lord is telling you in the words, specifically to women, that to be modest and a lot of people like, twist, we're talking about prosperity and being, I mean, being, you know, being, um, acting like he got wealthy and actually you got a lot of money.

He's not talking about how you dress. Well, the reality is God knew exactly why he need to address women in scripture by modesty. Yeah, yeah. It's not an accident. It's like, what about the men? Okay, that's fine. We can talk about men. But God is not like slow. He didn't like, well, I didn't want to address men. I forgot. No, he's addressing women specifically because he knows the heart of women. He understands that women desire men. And go back to Genesis again, your desire will be for men. And so because as now a Christian woman, now out of the darkness into the light, not operating the fall but being led by the spirit, now let me tell you, what your new desires are not to attract and draw attention, right?

Which now we do today is central. That's how we, it's not so much wealth. You can do that. All right, opulence and wealth and, you know, actually you got a lot of money, but really is sensual now because everything is sexual now. Everything in our culture is drive about sexuality. And so today in our culture,

that would be the same thing as what they're talking about with the wealth and the brain of the hair and all the other stuff. It's just basically look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. And so God is saying to you, you don't have to do that, daughter of the, my daughter, you don't have to do that. you don't have to draw attention to you.

Your attention should rather come from your obedience to me. And see, if your attention comes from that rather than drawing attention to your body or being sensual, then now not only do you glorify me, but a man that truly is mine will see you the way he's supposed to design to see you rather than in the lust and flesh. And so that guy is directly addressing women for a specific reason because he knows the heart of women when they're in a fallen state. And he knows now that you're in the body of Christ, here is now the, the, the, new way as a new creation how to see yourself and how to have others see you and should primarily

start with me and so the discussion with mysie is difficult because we have an entire generation of women that came up and said do you it's about you a grab hold of what makes you you know look good you know make sure you show off your little bit something because that makes you feminine that whole idea of femininity coming from which which is really silly exposing more of your body so the more you expose your body the more feminine it is and I'm like wait a minute that just doesn't make any see who came up with that whose idea was that because if I look at you know in history it's like okay you know men had on longer longer gowns women had on long gowns everybody was just wearing kind of typical clothing so why today does somebody come with this idea and I'm pretty sure it was a man that if you if you have on less that's a woman that makes you feminine and that's a lie it's not true um that's just that's just a man trying to get you to look the way they want you to look so they can look at you and desire you in a way that's not godly that's really what's happening. in there. And so, yeah, the discussion of modesty, I will say, I posted something a few years ago. That was a video, and I'll just say, like, there's a video of Christian man saying,

thank you for dressing mildly because modestly to Christian women, and dressed not to unbelievers, but to Christians, thank you for dressing modestly because that helps me. I used to be a porn addict. I used to have issues with lust. And so, I appreciate you thinking of your brother by addressing modesty. Man, I got so, it was on Facebook, I got so many horrible comments, like terrible comments about my men or this, men or that. And so what I came to the conclusion, I took it down. And I came to the conclusion, it was only like two comments from women that were like, thank you for posting this as a sister in Christ.

I appreciate that. Two, hundreds, all of them were, arrested were negative. I'm like, okay, what this is telling me is there are a lot of women who have been abused by fathers, father figures, other men. And so all they see is that abuse from a man, which is horrible, which they shouldn't have went through. But that's all they see. And so if a man says, hey, do this.

And I appreciate it. It's like, no, you men are nothing. You abuse us. You don't, you know, you treat us bad. You treat us horribly. And so I figured, okay, we shouldn't just come from this direction of dress like this. Like you know, just dress like measured or straight. Do it, do that.

It's rather, and also it's a Christ-like thing. So scripture talks about thinking of your brother and sister more highly than you think of yourself. Well, if we know we live in a saturated, sexually saturated culture, that's, that's everybody knows that. and most men, including me, were introduced pornography at a very young age, unfortunately, very, very young age, and today is even worked because I grew up in the 90s. And so because that's just reality, as we come into a Christian context in our culture, saying that, hey, you know what I know that sex is everywhere, everything is about sex, and my brothers could be struggling. They could be in a place. Some of them could be stronger than others. Some of them could be struggling. Well, I'm going to think about them.

It's not about me. It's not about, well, this is my body. I'm sure it ain't about you. you'd be to, you know, gouge your eyes out. It's not that attitude, it's the attitude of Christ that says, this is my brother. So since this is my brother, I'm going to dress in a way that's presentable. First of all, I'm going amongst other people to worship God. So I should be thinking about that in first place, but also because there are brothers and sisters who are struggling, even sisters, who are struggling.

Let me not come in a way that could cause them to stumble. Yeah. Wow. And, you know, that's convicting for every Christian, just when you're getting dressed in the morning, thinking even if you're not tempted to, to, you know, like show everything off, still having and everything you do, the mentality of Christ of, okay, this is not about me. How you get dressed is not about you. How you take care of yourself is not primarily about you, even though it is you. You are still being a steward of the body that God gave you. People talk a lot about self-care and things like that. Well,

really, the Lord is your shepherd and you are simply stewarding the body responsibly that God gave you through rest and rejuvenation and things like that. But it's not about you. Right. It's not about just what's making you happy and making you feel good. It is worshiping the Lord. Right. And I think really that gets back to everything that we're talking about. That is underneath when you're talking about sexual ethics, when you're talking about dating, when you're talking about purity and modesty and whether we conform to culture standards about identity and all different kinds of things. Abortion, it all goes back to who you worship. And I'm certainly not saying this as someone who,

wow, I've got that taking care of. That is sanctification. Right. It's conforming ourselves more and more to Christ and learning that Christ worship is not something that you do on Sundays, but that you do in every part of your life, right? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Yeah. And the gospel is supposed to infiltrate all parts of our life. And gosh, God, give me the grace to do that better on a daily basis. You mess up, correct. Repentance. Yes. How can people follow you, support you, hear more of what you have to say?

Yeah, so you can go to godfirst, life second.com. You spell it all the way out. The Twitter page there, the Instagram is there, YouTube. We have a podcast. I just started not the long ago. Podcasts down, Apple Podcasts on the rest of the podcast. What's the podcast called? God First Life Second.

It's spelled all the way out. God First Life Second. Spell it all the way out. We'll put the link in the description. so people can click on it. Yeah, yeah, I just put an episode up about a week ago. So I'll check that out, check that out. So we have that.

And on our website, we have, you know, things there. You can, like I said, podcast. We have an explanation of the gospel. We have some challenges on there. We have some product that we sell that just kind of challenge you and people who see the message on you on whatever you're wearing to just basically glorify God. There's been moments where I've worked stuff and people look at me and say, man, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And so it's just pointing people to Christ and yourself. when you wake up in the morning, you know what? It's about him. And so that's kind of what God was like Saking was designed to do. I love that. You know, people think that wearing a T-shirt or doing something seemingly, you know, little like that, that's just insignificant, that it doesn't make a difference.

But you really never know. I was just talking to you. I think you probably follow Neil Shin-Vee. And he was saying how he became a Christian started down that journey because a campus crusade for Christ had like set up a table at his college and then we're passing. out free C.S. Lewis books. And he took one of those and that started him on his journey. So someone did something that they probably saw as just totally commonplace and insignificant. You never, you never know. You never know. You never know. You never know. God works and all of that.

Yeah. So thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to come on. Encourage people to follow you, support you. Check out your website and your podcast. I appreciate it. Thank you, I appreciate. Thanks for having me. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.