Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 701 | Progressive, Pro-Life, & Indicted by the DOJ | Guest: Herb Geraghty

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Herb Garrity is a pro-life activist who was just indicted by the DOJ for a non-violent protest at an abortion clinic in Pennsylvania. Herb is not your typical pro-lifer. He is an atheist, a progressive, a board member at the pro-life alliance of a Pennsylvania. gays and lesbians and an advocate of social justice. We are as far apart as it gets on a variety of issues and we will discuss some of that today. But importantly, we agree on this issue, the right to life for human beings in the womb. And so Herb and I are discussing all of this and more today.

Starting point is 00:01:18 Before we get into that conversation, I will give some context for his indictment that demonstrates that this is not an isolated incident, but rather is a really disturbing, frightening pattern of the Biden administration. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Goody Ranchers. Go to good ranchers.com slash alley. That's good ranchers.com slash alley. So let me give you a little bit of context here. This is from Herb's give send go page. On October 14th, 2020, Pittsburgh pro-life leader Herb Garrity was indicted in charge with violating the Face Act in connection with the nonviolent. pro-life direct action that occurred in 2020 in Washington, D.C.

Starting point is 00:02:07 This comes as part of an aggressive campaign from the Biden administration's Department of Justice under Merrick Garland to target peaceful pro-life activists. So far, and this is true, what he says on his Gifts and Go page, at least 22 anti-abortion activists have been charged with the FACE Act this year. This is an even more, this is even more shocking because there have been no arrest or charges brought against any of the individuals who firebombed, vandalized, and otherwise attacked pro-life churches and pregnancy sinners this summer. If convicted herb and other defendants, each faced up to 11 years in prison, three years of supervised release, and a fine of up to

Starting point is 00:02:49 $260,000. There were 11 pro-life activists who were indicted by Biden's DOJ for protesting. outside an abortion clinic in Tennessee. This story is from Life News from October 5th, 2022. Several protesters participated in a March 2021 event at the Mount Juliet, Tennessee abortion facility where they prayed and sang in a hallway of a building that houses both the abortion company and other medical businesses. They did not prevent people from getting into the businesses into any of the businesses in the building.

Starting point is 00:03:25 On October 5th, 2022, the FBI raided a man named Chet, Gallagher's home while he was out of state and demanded his whereabouts from his family. Live action reported that the event was peaceful with participants lining the inside of a hallway of a shared general medical office building, praying, singing songs, hoping, trying to convince women to not abort their children. The other individuals in this story were called by the FBI and told to turn themselves in. The FBI is, is not actually performing these investigations. Instead, the DOJ is performing their own investigations.

Starting point is 00:04:07 And each activist in this case faces up to 10 years in prison. The FACE Act is a very obscure law that is not very often enforced. And here we are actually seeing that it is being wrongly enforced because in many cases, these people are not actually, they're not actually violating the law, which says that it is a crime. to try to prevent someone from accessing what they would call a reproductive health clinic. These people are very often just peaceful protesters. Maybe they're sitting in front of a door. But by the way, even if that is what they are doing, they are nonviolently trying to inhibit

Starting point is 00:04:48 the slaughter of unborn children. And so that shouldn't be illegal. You'll also remember the story that we reported at the end of September about Mark Hawk, who was arrested. by the FBI. The FBI raided his home while his small children were in the home, guns drawn on charges that he assaulted an abortion clinic volunteer. You can go back and listen to that episode.

Starting point is 00:05:13 He was defending his child against a pro-abortion harasser who was saying vile, even sexual things to his 12-year-old son was getting in his face. So Mr. Hawk, this pro-life activist, pushed this man back away from his son as any rational parent would and now he is facing federal charges by the Biden DOJ, a nonviolent pro-life activist. According to Fox News, over 100 pro-life organizations, churches have been attacked since the Dobbs leak. At least 17 of the attacks have been claimed by the left-wing pro-abortion group Jane's Revenge. No members of this group have been arrested. At least 38 churches across the country have been fire bombed, smashed, ransacked, or vandalized with pro-abortion

Starting point is 00:06:04 graffiti and threatening messages. At least 58 other pro-life clinics and organizations suffered from the same fate. At least 23 other incidents involved pro-life individuals being physically attacked or pro-abortion protesters being arrested. You'll remember there was an 84-year-old volunteer volunteering for right to life in Michigan. She was canvassing in a neighborhood against the pro-abortion Prop 3 in Michigan that is up for vote in this November 8th election. She survived, but she was shot in the back by one of the people that she was trying to talk to about Proposal 3. There is a trend of violence against pro-lifers, not just among the citizenry, that goes totally

Starting point is 00:06:51 unpunished, but also by the government. And so you see how they have pro-lifers sandwiched, how you. you can with impunity, attack pro-lifers, pro-life pregnancy centers that are doing the very work that the pro-choice side, the pro-abortion side says needs to be done or that the pro-life side does not do offering resources and offering tools and protection and help to families who are in crisis, who are facing unplanned pregnancies. I mean, these people at pro-life centers are doing thankless, sacrificial, incredible work on a daily basis for vulnerable people. And what does the pro-abortion side do?

Starting point is 00:07:39 They take your money, kill your baby, while firebombing the centers that are actually trying to give women a choice. And so that's what's happening on one end. And then on the other end, you have the government that is punishing non-vourable. violent pro-lifers trying to save babies from slaughter and women from violence. So you can inflict violence against pro-lifers with impunity. And then you get punished by the government. If you are a peaceful pro-life protester or activist,

Starting point is 00:08:15 they are trying to make the cost of being against abortion as high as possible. So fewer and fewer people will want to pay it. Well, that's too bad because Christians have already counted the cost. cost. And we have for all of church history been a refuge for the vulnerable. We have been willing to put our lives on the line for the sake of the vulnerable, for the sake of the victim. And that is what pro-life activism is. And our guest today is not a Christian. And yet he is putting his body, his freedom, his life on the line for the sake of the pre-born. And that should be really convicting to a lot of Christians, especially the Christians who still think that it is possible

Starting point is 00:09:04 to in good conscience vote for the party that is advocating for not just violence against the unborn, but also violence against pro-lifers and is enabling the violence against pro-lifers. I mean, it should be really convicting that we are about to talk to a progressive atheist who is doing more for the unborn than many professing Christians who simply just says, around all day and complain that not enough is being done. So I hope that this conversation that we're about to have that it's convicting for you, that it's encouraging for you. We're going to have a little bit of a gospel conversation. You're going to hear a little bit of our disagreement. And yet you will also hear my deep and profound appreciation for this person's bravery, for his

Starting point is 00:09:53 boldness and how I believe the Lord is working in and through him to protect him. the lives of unborn children. Remember people, we're a week out from elections. Elections have consequences. People voting for the president who they thought would be a nice reprie from mean tweets, who they thought would bring us together, who they thought would be the unifier, was more empathetic, was moderate, was compassionate, was maybe softer. He is the one sicking the DOJ on pro-lifers who are trying to protect children from slaughter even while doing nothing for the people that are actually inflicting the violence on unborn children and those trying to protect them. That's what the vote for Biden got.

Starting point is 00:10:40 Just something to consider as you head to the polls next Tuesday. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality. itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

Starting point is 00:11:17 If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Herd, thank you so much for joining us. Before we get started talking about everything that's going on, can you just briefly tell us who you are and what you do? Sure. My name is Herb Garrity. I'm a pro-life activist. I believe in the right to life for every single human being, regardless of their age, level of development or anything else, including circumstances post-conception and then birth. I currently run an organization called Rehumanize International and the Executive Director, and we embrace and advocate for a consistent life ethic, which means opposing violence against human beings, like I said, in all stages of their life and in all circumstances.

Starting point is 00:12:19 And so we work to abolish abortion, embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia, as well as capital punishment and police brutality and war and torture and all forms of violence against human beings. I would love to hear more about what the work is that you're doing specifically and then also how you came to this place of wanting to organize an institution that is centered on rehumanizing people and kind of how you came to the conclusion about life inside the womb. There's a lot of people who agree with you about police brutality and agree about capital punishment but would exclude unborn children kind of from the list of people who need our compassion. So I'm definitely interested in hearing more about that. But to start off, I do want to hear about the circumstance that you are currently finding yourself in. I saw that you tweeted a thread on October 17th that said, this past weekend I learned I was indicted on charges related to nonviolent pro-life advocacy.

Starting point is 00:13:20 Thanks to everyone who reached out, I am doing all right. And then you kind of posted a thread that explained a little bit about what is going on and kind of gave everyone perspective on this. So could you tell us a little bit more about what happened? You were indicted on these charges related to the Face Act, like many other pro-life activists have been recently. Tell us what that was and what that was like. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:48 Well, so interestingly, I found out about the indictment, not through my attorney or from the government. I found out from the DOJ's Twitter account, literally like at civil rights, had tweeted as Pennsylvania man indicted under the face act. And so I clicked on it. And I was like, oh, that is me. That is you. Wow.

Starting point is 00:14:10 But that said, I sort of didn't, I didn't necessarily expect it. But I have understood that in this current climate, we've seen the Biden administration using the Department of Justice to go after nonviolent pro-life activist. They had already indicted several of my friends on similar charges related to this event. And they had a superseding indictment where they wanted to add me. And so now I am facing up to 11 years in prison for nonviolent defense of unborn lives. Tell us what that nonviolent. act was, if you can, because the other side, if I'm to play devil's advocate, would say, well,

Starting point is 00:14:59 this is the law. There is the FACE Act that says that you cannot inhibit someone's access to what they would call a reproductive health care center. And if you are using your body or using force to block people from that access, then you violated the law and you deserve what's coming to you. Are you able to say what the event was that you are being indicted for? Were you forceful or violent in any way? So I can't make any comments about direct details, but I can affirm what I've affirmed throughout my entire career, which is that I am committed wholly to nonviolence. And I believe that in that being nonviolent doesn't just mean abstaining from violence.

Starting point is 00:15:47 I think having a real commitment to nonviolence also includes. trying to prevent violence from happening. And we know that abortion kills a human being. And I think that I can't comment exactly about what happened on the day. You can read the indictment for yourself. However, I think that as pro-life people, if we're going to say that we believe that abortion is murder, which it is, then we need to act like it. And I think that what I'm accused of is putting my body in between a killer and their victim. And you're facing up to 11 years in prison.

Starting point is 00:16:33 What has the process been since you found out through Twitter that you were being indicted, finding out, I guess, what the punishment is that you're facing? I mean, what has that been like? So I thus far have been just scrambling to find a lawyer and to get my legal situation settled. Thankfully, I wasn't actually arrested. They were able to allow me to come in to self-surrender. And so I didn't have the experience. Like some people I know who's had their door busted down by agents.

Starting point is 00:17:14 So I'm very grateful for that. But thus far, it's been trying to figure out what my next steps are. I've been very grateful from the support of the pro-life community who have not abandoned us. Because it's not just me. It's now over 20 pro-life activists who have been indicted under the Face Act or on similar charges. Because it's not, it's something that's so interesting is that it's not just the Face Act. I'm charged with that, but we're all also charged with conspiracy to deny rights, which to me is just so ironic because we know that abortion is not a right. There is no right to kill an unborn child.

Starting point is 00:17:59 There never was. And now post the Dobbs decision in a post-Rovie Wade world, we know that legally that's true as well, that there is certainly not a right to an abortion. So the idea that myself or any of the co-defendants were violating someone else's civil rights is just completely ridiculous. And what are your feelings? What have your emotions been like? I mean, facing the potential of 11 years in prison, that's a really big deal. I've got to imagine that there have been at least some moments of fear as you consider that prospect. Yeah, no, absolutely. I am terrified. I think that I've been really, I've been heartened by the

Starting point is 00:18:49 response of the pro-life community. I have been not surprised by the response of the pro-abortion community, particularly people on Twitter. My DMs are like flooded with. Just celebrating. Yeah, celebrating. It's particularly really excited about the fact that I may get sexually assaulted in prison. That's like the main theme of my direct messages. And so obviously, like, it's horrible and concerning. And I think that this is an injustice against pro-life activists. But more importantly, when I actually think about it, I'm reminded that whatever the government does to me,

Starting point is 00:19:32 they throw me away, lock me in a cell for 11 years. I'm hoping it's not that long if I am convicted. But whatever they do to me, it's nothing compared to what they allow abortionists to do to unborn children. Every day in this country, babies are being killed. Like, pro-life people know that, right? We know the apologetics. We know that abortion kills human babies through either poisoning, starvation, or live dismemberment. And many of us, we just sit back.

Starting point is 00:20:03 Myself, I live a couple blocks away from an abortion clinic. I know that that is a business where they're taking women who are just in desperate circumstances and convincing them that they need to pay them hundreds or thousands of dollars to kill their unborn babies through very violent, gruesome means. And as pro-life people, like, I just walk by that clinic sometimes. And it makes me sad and I do activism and I try to stop it. But I think that it's hard to get people to. to take us seriously that we really believe the truth that abortion is murder if we're not

Starting point is 00:20:41 willing to put our freedom on the line to defend those victims. Yep. And there is obviously, as you are seeing now, a very high cost to putting that freedom on the line. What does it look like if you're able to say from here forward? I mean, what does the trial look like? What does it look like before? conviction. I know that you said that you're a lawyering up and you're figuring out your legal

Starting point is 00:21:11 options. Do you know what the timeline is? Yeah, we have a proposed trial for August of 2023. And so that's kind of my next, that that's all I know. Okay. Until then, I've been released under cognizance. I don't need to, you know, serve this time in jail as long as I meet my pretrial conditions, which include, like, I had to give them my passport. I'm not allowed to leave the country, as well as I'm not allowed to communicate with any of the co-defendants, which has been difficult because some of these co-defendants, I mean, they're my best friends. They're people who I've done pro-life and anti-death penalty and anti-war organizing with for five, ten years, some of them. And so I'm just completely cut off from them. So that's been

Starting point is 00:22:03 quite difficult, but we're working. The work still continues, right? Just because I can't text my friend Lauren doesn't mean that I don't know that both of us are outside of the respective abortion clinics in our cities serving the women going in there. And so I think it's scary. I think that pro-life people should be pretty seriously concerned about the way that the Biden administration is using the Department of Justice. justice and really attacking and trying to silence and isolate pro-life activists who are effective at saving lives. But I think what pro-life people should be more concerned about than my legal struggles is

Starting point is 00:22:49 the fact that still post-obs, thousands of babies are being killed in this country every day. And we just need to take that seriously as a culture. You know, as you're talking and thinking about the fact that as you're describing your pretrial conditions, I mean, we're supposed to be innocent until we're proven guilty, but it kind of sounds like we're just kind of curtailing due process and assuming some guilt. I mean, you're not allowed to leave the country. You're not allowed to talk to your friends. That means some of your freedoms have been taken away. But as you mentioned, I mean, if you want to look at a group of people whose due process rights, whose primary right to life is violated on a daily

Starting point is 00:23:42 basis, who is basically given the death penalty for committing the crime of being conceived, that is unborn children. So it seems like that is the perspective that you keep at the forefront, that even though the prospect of 11 years in prison and everything involved in that, and even if you don't go to prison, you've already lost some freedoms, it seems like you are keeping in perspective that the loss of rights and the loss of life that is experienced by unborn children every day, is worse, it's graver than what you're going through, and it is worth the sacrifices that you're making

Starting point is 00:24:20 if it means that you are saving the lives of unborn children. Yeah, absolutely, because think about it. The worst case scenario here is that I am sentenced to 11 years in prison. If one person gets to live 70, 80 years of their life because of that sacrifice, then it sucks. I'm not looking forward to it. But I think I have to think it's worth it. And you said that the response from the pro-life community has been great.

Starting point is 00:24:51 There are a lot of people listening to this who are pro-life, who are just now hearing your story for the first time, and they want to know how they can support you. So what can they do to support you during this process? Yeah. Well, so first I would say, if you are pro-life, I encourage you first before you start being concerned about myself and the other defendants is to get out there. and serve the actual women and pregnant people in your community that might be considering abortion, even if you live somewhere that has already banned many abortions. It's still happening in our communities. And so we need to be out there.

Starting point is 00:25:27 Sorry to interrupt. Yeah. What is that look like? We talk a lot about pregnancy centers here. And you said that you're out there on a daily basis advocating in front of these pregnancy centers. So what would that look like? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:25:40 So I think that the first step that any pro-life person can do if you live within, I don't know, 50 miles of an abortion clinic or somewhere that is not providing abortions, but referring for abortions, like many Planned Parenthoods in states that have banned some abortions have transferred into. Standing outside those clinics, sidewalk advocates for Life of America has a great program. much of their materials are available online that you can print out. And just being outside of that clinic peacefully, nonviolently, and offering resources, if you have an abortion clinic around you, you absolutely have a pro-life pregnancy center around you as well. And so you can let people going in there know about other nonviolent healthcare services that are available to them. typically free or low cost. I know so, so many people who have gotten abortions who have told me

Starting point is 00:26:44 if there was just one person outside on the sidewalk that day that had the message that you can do it, you can choose life, there will be support for you. They wouldn't have felt like abortion was their only option because for so many pregnant people, especially young people, students, everyone in their life is telling them that abortion is their only option. And of course, the abortion doctor is selling them this lie because they get to profit off of it. And so, of course, anyone inside that clinic is not going to have their best interests in mind and certainly not the best interests of their child.

Starting point is 00:27:24 And so being there as an advocate, my website has some resources that you can find. It's Rehumanize.intl.org slash sidewalk-advocacy. see, but you can just find it on the website. That has printouts that has little flyers that just explain, you know, if you're pregnant, you deserve to know these things, and it discusses both what abortion does, as well as provides resources, both national and local, for people who are in that situation. And so I think that's the first thing that pro-lifers can do. I think there's a lot of different types of activism that you can do as pro-life, or you can

Starting point is 00:28:03 volunteer at a pregnancy center or you can attend the March for Life or you can work for legislative change. But in my opinion, being outside of the actual abortion clinics is crucial because it's not just voting for someone who might grant an unborn child rights one day down the line. It's actually meeting that person, that pregnant person and their child on that day that they might be scheduled to be killed. And I think that pro-life people need to take seriously what is happening in this country. And I think that we need to step up and be there to be that village so that no one feels, again, like abortion is their only option because so many of the people who I know who have gotten abortions, whether they're pro-choice or pro-life, say that's how they felt, that they just,

Starting point is 00:28:53 there was no choice. Abortion was the only choice for them. And we know that doesn't have to be the case, that we can be there to provide real holistic choices for women that do not include violence against an unborn child. Yes. Well, I'm very thankful for how you're able to articulate the value of life inside the womb and why that should immediately equal human rights. All human beings are entitled to human rights. And if babies inside the womb are humans, then of course they are also entitled to the same rights that you and I are. I'm so curious from a non-Christian, non-religious perspective, how you have landed at this. People can probably hear from your language. You have said pregnant person, which is not something that we would say, that you and I differ on a lot of things politically, culturally, socially, and yet we agree on this very important thing. And I come at it from a different angle.

Starting point is 00:29:55 I have a different way that I landed here. So I'm interested to hear you kind of describe what it was like to either become pro-life or if you've always been pro-life, how you have worked through that and landed in such a confident place. Yeah, I think that, well, first I'll say that I do say pregnant people, partially because I really do believe that women are people. And so they are included in that group as well as people who have the capacity to get pregnant who do not identify as women. They may identify as trans men or non-binary or whatever they want. I think it's important to use inclusive language when we're talking about pregnancy in the pro-life context because I have known people who are pregnant and do not identify as women. And if they feel as though I'm about to get in some sort of ontological debate with them about the nature of gender, they are much less interested in hearing me out as I'm pleading for the life of their unborn child.

Starting point is 00:30:58 And so, yeah, I'll call you they, them if that means that you're going to hear us out and willing to take these resources we have to offer you. Well, we could spend the next hour debating and discussing that. People probably know who are listening to this exactly what I think about that. I do want to focus on, you know, if we can, what we absolutely agree on. And that is the value of life inside the womb. So tell me kind of how, you're an atheist, correct? Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:36 So tell me about that because from my perspective, science can tell us when life begins, but it doesn't tell us when life is valuable. So what has that looked like for you ethically and philosophically? Yeah, so I think that I don't consider myself a very philosophical person to begin with. I think that, you know, when I was a kid, I like all of us, learned about historic evils, like the Holocaust and slavery and, you know, all types of evils against human beings. And at that point, I was not really religious. I've never really bought into anyone religion. But when I learned about the Holocaust, I was horrified by it, right?

Starting point is 00:32:25 And I think that even, I think that people who learn about it and who are not religious are equally horrified. And I think even religious people are not necessarily thinking that, you know, some historic injustice was bad because, you know, human beings are made in the image and likeness of God. It can just be bad because we believe in some sort of idea of human rights and equality. And so for me, abortion is not a religious issue because I'm not religious. However, I think that the killing of all human beings, violence against human beings is something that people can oppose regardless of their religious or political ideology. I think that that should be something that is common sense that we don't hurt people for the same reasons that we are horrified to learn about historic injustice. When we learn about modern injustice, whether it's in the form of imperialist warmaking or the death penalty for abortion, we should be spurred to speak out on it and to act for the victims of injustice. And so I just, I really, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:33:37 I do not think that the abortion issue should be an exclusively religious issue. And I think it's really interesting because people ask me all the time. Like, if you're an atheist, then why are you anti-abortion? But they never ask me that for any of the other things that I also care about. No one ever says, you know, if you're an atheist, you know, then why would you oppose the death penalty? They can just understand that people who are not religious can still believe in human rights and justice. And I think that that is what I wish that pro-life people would sometimes be better at communicating. Because I think a lot of people in my generation hear pro-life, and they think that that implies, you know, an opposition to, you know, premarital sex or same-sex marriage or,

Starting point is 00:34:33 like we just mentioned gender ideology issues. And I think that for me, it doesn't at all. For me, being pro-life is because I support nonviolence and because I support social justice. And so I think that there's this, there's a communication issue because all of the conservative pro-lifers, I know, believe the same things as I do about abortion, that it's violence and that it is an injustice.

Starting point is 00:34:58 But I think that we have a communication issue sometimes where people don't understand that the reason that most pro-life people are against abortion is because it kills a baby. Like, people just do not get that sometimes. And so that's what I've been trying to communicate with them. And of course, I wish there were more atheists and even progressives. Even if I disagreed on every other issue, you and I disagree on a lot of issues. I'm hearing as you're explaining it.

Starting point is 00:35:38 And yet, I am so glad that we are united on an issue that is literally a matter of life. and death for innocent defenseless people. And if I can just, in case there are people who are listening to this or watching this who don't know my perspective as a Christian, what I would say, how I land on it is, yes, science tells us when life begins. Science tells us what a human being is. And science can tell us a lot of things about how the world works and what the nature is of all things, including humans.

Starting point is 00:36:14 but science doesn't tell us why the life inside the womb matters more than a mother's decision, matters more than what a doctor wants, matters more than what the law says. Really, the only way that I can get to this idea that human beings aren't just clumps of cells, that were not just accidental, you know, clumps of matter that just happened to develop throughout time from, you know, a bang in the cosmos. The only way that I can get to this idea that human beings are innately valuable and therefore are entitled to inherent rights that the government does not have the right to give or take away is if there is a creator and an authority whose power and who say so is transcendent,

Starting point is 00:37:06 is bigger than a government, is bigger than human beings, who gave us those rights, and therefore the state or a government cannot take them away because they were given to us by a creator and by an authority that is higher than them. And then there's also the issue of just right and wrong. I think a lot of people say, well, of course it's wrong to commit violence against a person. Of course it's wrong. To commit evil against someone. Of course, all of these atrocities throughout history are wrong.

Starting point is 00:37:36 But I don't think that's, of course. I think that there are a lot of people throughout history who would disagree with that. I think Paul Pot would have disagreed with that. I think Hitler would have disagreed with that. I think a lot of people disagree on when violence is okay. I think the only way that we can get to an objective right and wrong that, hey, abortion is wrong because it kills an innocent person and innocent people. All people have value is, from my opinion, going back to a creator of truth, a creative of morality, a giver of rights, a giver of value. A giver of values. A giver of value. value. If there is no source of those things, it's hard for me to understand how we can say that they

Starting point is 00:38:17 even objectively universally exist. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, trust me. I have heard that argument or that rationale for why we should be anti-abortion a million times from pro-life Christians. And I'm just not very evangelical about my atheism. I don't really care if other people believe in God or don't. I think that I welcome, you know, people who have diverse opinions about the nature of the universe and the nature of rights or objectivity in general. And so I'm happy to work with Christians who come from that point of view as well as, you know, I know several Jewish and Muslim people who are also anti-abortion and can cite their faith for. for some of their beliefs. But I think for me,

Starting point is 00:39:11 whenever I hear that, it just seems, it seems very circular. I think that it's reasonable. Is it any less circular than saying violence is bad because it is? Oh, certainly. And I'm not saying,

Starting point is 00:39:25 yeah, no, sure, but I'm just saying mine doesn't lie on that to me has, remains unproven. the existence of a God. Like I think when I hear this argument for objectivity needing a creator, I'm interested. If you can show me that creator, then that sounds like a good argument.

Starting point is 00:39:49 But I've looked and I've looked and I am still wholly unconvinced by what Christianity has to offer, as well as Islam and Judaism that I've not not looked into that much. But, you know, I've skimmed the Bible. it seems like there's a lot of great messages in it, but I'm just not convinced of its literal reality or the existence of a deity that I can't see. But again, I'm not evangelical about this. I welcome people who believe in God. Get the feeling that you are. I'm not, I don't think that you're trying to convince me of your atheism. I just wanted to make sure that people understand, you know, where I'm coming from as well. I do think a lot of people say, well, You don't have to be religious to be pro-life.

Starting point is 00:40:39 And obviously that's true. You're not religious and you're pro-life. To me, it does go back to human beings being made in the image of God. And I do just want to say like one more, just one more thing because I'm just so thankful for you. I'm thankful for your boldness. I am thankful for your clarity. I am thankful for the perspective that you have that you might not be a Christian, yet you understand something that Jesus told Christians to do.

Starting point is 00:41:05 And that is count the cost. count the cost. He says, before you follow me, because it's going to cost you a lot. It might cost you your friends. It might cost you your freedom. It might cost you your family. And yet Jesus says that it is worth it. And while what you're doing now isn't following Jesus, you have counted the cost of your sacrifice and of your activism. And you have determined that even at great loss to you that it is worth it. So you might not be a follower of Christ. And yet there is, whether you know it or not a Christian nature, I believe, to what you are doing from my perspective.

Starting point is 00:41:45 And I think that that is amazing. And I am going to be praying for you and supporting you from afar. One other thing that I want to say, because I am a Christian, you're not evangelical about your atheism. I am evangelical about my Christianity. And my determination is not to change your mind, but there are tins. of thousands of people watching. So you said that you don't know what Christianity has to offer. And I'm sure you've heard this, as you said, a thousand times before, because you work with a lot

Starting point is 00:42:26 of Christians. I find it much more irrational to look at the world and to look at human beings and to look at gestation and to say that all happened as a matter of chance. I find that it actually requires a lot more faith to believe that. And I need a lot more evidence to believe that that came from nothing, then I do that there is an intelligent designer and creator that purposely created and designed all of those things. That is, to me, a lot more rational. And then if that's true, then of course, the rest follows that how do we know this God? How do we get to this God? What is right and wrong? If there's a creator of it, what is our purpose? What is our calling? If there's a creator and a giver of life and a giver of purpose. And of course, I believe that the only

Starting point is 00:43:11 way to that God is through Christ and that he reconciles us to that God and gives us our purpose and gives us our satisfaction. And so I don't know if you'll ever, if you'll ever land there. And if that's ever where your mind will go, regardless, I appreciate what you do and how you set an example for Christians and non-Christians alike. Thank you. Yeah, no, I mean, sometimes I hear from Christians that they, I think overwhelmingly people have the same attitude that you do, that you're happy that I'm in this fight. But I've heard from some people that they don't want to work with people like me, people with my beliefs and people with my identities and lack of faith. And to me, that always just seems so counterproductive to me because I think that this issue really matters.

Starting point is 00:44:05 And I think that we need everyone on board. But I'll say if you are a Christian, Christian who doesn't want an atheist or someone who affirms LGBT people to to be sort of the face of the pro-life movement, which I certainly am not, but I'm getting a little bit of attention for this right now. Then go out and do more than me. Go and take all of the attention you possibly can away from me because you are just doing so, so much for the unborn that no one cares what, you know, the atheist liberals are doing anymore. And I think that that's my message. Like if you, I think that I've heard Christians say, like, I'm embarrassed that I'm not doing more if, you know, an atheist cares more about this than me.

Starting point is 00:44:50 And I don't think that everyone caring needs to look exactly the same. But I think that most people can do more for the unborn in this country. Yes. No, honestly, I think that is absolutely true. If you're going to criticize someone who is in the fight because they don't align with. your beliefs, then maybe you should be the one out there putting your body on the line. Maybe you should be the one who is making headlines for that. And I would agree that if an atheist is doing more than Christians, the Christians who are told that we should be giving everything to love

Starting point is 00:45:26 our neighbor, then I would say that is a problem. So that's why you say you are setting an example for Christians and non-Christians alike. I appreciate that for every life that you saved, whether you go to prison or not, I am praising God for. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Can you tell everyone, again, how they can help you and also how they can find out more about Rehumanize International? Yeah, you can find out more about Rehumanize International on our website, RehumanizeINTL.org. We're also on every social media at Rehumanize INTL. to find me, you can just find me on Twitter at Herb Garrity. I also have a give-send-go link for my legal defense.

Starting point is 00:46:12 It's just giv-sendgo.com slash herb. If you are interested in giving to that, that would be extremely appreciated. But any support, I will take. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. All right, thank you. All right, guys. Hope you enjoyed that conversation.

Starting point is 00:46:35 Make sure that you support Herb however you can. And like I said, I'm going to be praying for him. And I hope you will be two. All right. One more thing. A couple more things maybe before we go. Make sure that you check out our new stickers. We've got our Rip Row sticker.

Starting point is 00:46:49 Of course, that doesn't mean that we actually want Roe to rest in peace. It's just a sane. RAP Roe because it's gone. And we're happy about that. Bye. And then you can get our vote sticker. It's only five bucks. sure that you go ahead and order it today so it gets in before election day and then you can give it to

Starting point is 00:47:08 all your friends and you can make sure that they are voting. This is a lot cuter than the little voting sticker that you get at your voting location. So make sure that you get that. We've got all these stickers on our online store. Also, if you love this podcast, please leave us a five star review wherever you listen. That would mean so much to us and make sure you subscribe on YouTube. Also, So we still have our parody D&C video out there that I know that you guys will enjoy just in time for the midterms. Now, last announcement, election night, you guys know, is next Tuesday. The stakes are super high. I know we say that every election, but that's because it's true.

Starting point is 00:47:46 Stakes are really high. I think that we are going to have a lot of surprises. And I'm like super excited about it. And so the Blaze is going to be covering election night all night next Tuesday. I'm going to be here offering my commentary. Go to the blaze.com slash election guide to receive a free copy of Blaze Media's ultimate guide to the midterms delivered straight to your inbox. You can watch it at blazTV.com.

Starting point is 00:48:14 Like I said, I will be there offering my takes on everything all night. And then you can go to the blaze.com slash election guide to get your free copy of Blaze Media's ultimate guide to the midterms delivered straight to your inbox. share the link with your friends so they can have a guide and be informed as well. All right, that's all we've got for today. We'll be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country

Starting point is 00:48:44 aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers where, they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you

Starting point is 00:49:11 about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 701 | Progressive, Pro-Life, & Indicted by the DOJ | Guest: Herb Geraghty

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.