Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 717 | From Porn Star to Pastor | Guest: Joshua Broome

Episode Date: December 1, 2022

Today we're joined by Joshua Broome, pastor and host of the "Counterfeit Culture" podcast, to discuss his incredible story of redemption from porn star to pastor. He shares his story, from how he got into the porn industry to finding Christ. We talk about his recruitment into the industry and his findings on the horrors within, including questions of trafficking and consent. We discuss what's really going on in the porn industry, and he explains his response to the common phrase "sex work is work." Then, we take a look at his breaking point and his returning home after leaving the industry and his struggles with hiding his past. He shares his journey of meeting his wife, becoming a father, and ultimately finding true healing in Christ. We also discuss what policies should be in place to protect us from the evils of porn. --- Timecodes: (01:45) Interview with Joshua begins (14:35) Entry into the porn industry (26:35) About the industry (34:59) Response to "sex work is work" (40:22) Joshua's breaking point (44:12) Leaving the industry (51:10) Do you struggle with the memories? (56:15) Fatherhood and parenting (01:01:18) Influence of ministry now --- Today's Sponsors: Naturally It's Clean — visit naturallyitsclean.com/allie and use promo code "ALLIE" to receive 15% off your order. Carly Jean Los Angeles — use promo code 'ALLIEB' to save 20% off your first order at CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com! A'Del — go to adelnaturalcosmetics.com and enter promo code "ALLIE" for 25% off your first order! Healthycell — get 20% off your first order at HealthyCell.com/ALLIE, use promo code 'ALLIE'! --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 196 | Should Porn Be Banned? https://apple.co/3VrHUro Ep 498 | Exposing the Threat Porn Poses to Kids | Guest: Benjamin Nolot https://apple.co/3ugdMTL --- Christmas Merch: Full collection: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey?sort_by=created-descending#MainContent "Thrill of Hope" crewneck (white): https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey/products/a-thrill-of-hope-crewneck-sweatshirt-white "Thrill of Hope" crewneck (green): https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey/products/a-thrill-of-hope-crewneck-sweatshirt-olive "Raise a Joyful Ruckus" crewneck (green): https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey/products/raise-a-joyful-ruckus-crewneck-sweatshirt "Raise a Joyful Ruckus" crewneck (blue): https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey/products/raise-a-joyful-ruckus-crewneck-sweatshirt-blue "You Better Watch Out" sticker: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey/products/you-better-watch-out-sticker --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 6, 9 through 11.

God is in the business of redeeming the seemingly unredeemable, forgiving the seemingly unforgivable. He is in the business of redemption, of bringing beauty out of ashes and making a new creation out of sinners. Joshua Broome, who spent years as an award-winning porn star, has been on the receiving end of that grace, and as a result, his life has changed. And God is using his powerful testimony for his glory and to save people's souls. You will hear all about that story and testimony today. We go all the way back to his childhood to today and how God has used his story in

incredible ways. I'm so excited for you to be encouraged and empowered and boldened by his story. This episode, as always, is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Now, without further ado, here is Joshua. Thank you so much for joining us. I know a lot of people have heard your testimony, maybe on other podcasts, and you've been sharing God's story in your life for a while, but for those who aren't familiar, just tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do. Yeah, so today I am the founder of a nonprofit called Finding Hope, and that's something that my wife and I, we operate, and I travel and, you know, essentially do it it itinerant preaching. But regarding my backstory, do you want me to go there as well?

Yes, well, yes, we can. Okay. So tell us, so you're a preacher now. Yeah. Like you said, an itinerant preacher, you're traveling the country. you've been sharing your testimony, but several years ago, it would have been kind of unbelievable that this would have been your future and the role that God has for you. Why is that? What is that path that makes it so unpredictable? Yeah, so I grew up in a super small town in South Carolina,

Pagel in South Carolina, so we have the honor and privilege of being the self-proclaimed watermelon capital of the world. That's cool. I did not know that. But, but, 13, 14, I started modeling and acting, and growing up without a father played a significant role in that because someone who has a high achieving personality paired with a high level of inadequacy, I believe that I needed to earn my validation. So with school, with sports, and then with modeling and acting, it became about getting the job, getting the role. So you grew up without a dad. How did that happen? Yeah, so my mom had me when she was 16. And then, you know, and then, you grew up without a dad. I'm, how did that happen? Yeah, so my mom had me when she was 16.

And then being in a small town, it was different than a lot of stories that I've heard because literally there's one grocery store. I'm seeing him as I get older. So he's living in close proximity to me. Oh, wow. Okay. And he's just not in my life, which was confusing and challenging at the same time. Yes, I can imagine. So they still lived close by.

Did they have any kind of relationship or friendship? Not, I mean, not really. I think it was one of those things where he tried to reach out a few times. And then, you know, I was living, you know, with my grandmother and grandfather, along with my mom. But, you know, they're trying to protect her, protect me. That, you know, that guardian mentality where it's like, you've hurt him already. And I don't know. I don't know. I don't know why it didn't happen. But I think, like, there was enough failed attempts where it just stopped happening. And it was probably really confusing for you. Do you remember? though growing up, you said that you would maybe run into him at the grocery store. I'm sure that was hard. Do you remember a longing to know him and want a relationship with him? Or was it kind of just, well, this is how things are? Oh, for sure, longing for. I mean, I grew up, like, kind of in a rural area. So the friends that I had in school, like, weren't in close proximity to me. So I found myself, you know, playing one-on-one basketball with an imaginary person, you know, playing football outside, like throwing the football into. to Bush's like wanting, wanting that dad there. Yeah. And my grandfather, like, was awesome and he took me fishing, but I never really had, like, like, a male leadership, like a male leadership or role model in my life. And that was definitely something I long for.

And especially when my peers had that, and I didn't. Yeah. And when you started, you said you started modeling when you were about 13. 13, yeah. So how did that happen? Was your mom just like, hey, you're handsome? Let's try this out. How did that go?

Yeah, so like way back in the day, you would just be walking through a mall and they were doing these like searches. And then someone, her name was Donna. She like grabbed me. She was like, hey, me and my mom said, would you be interested in this? And, you know, we paid to do some like promo shots and then, you know, landed up like on her like roster. And it just, you know, went to a convention or something like that. And then did some promo stuff and kind of took off from there. Okay.

And then tell me about your story. story. That's how you kind of got into the in front of the camera industry. How did that develop over time? Yeah. So ended up studying theater for a while in college and then was working, doing some modeling, doing some acting, more modeling than acting, even though I wanted to act more. But I thought, okay, if I put myself in closer proximity to the industry that I want to be in, it makes sense if, you know, if this is what I want to do with my life. So I ended up dropping out of school. in like my second semester of my sophomore year in college and I moved to Hollywood. And while I was out there like many people, it's like, okay, you know, you haven't, I got an

agent and I started working a little bit, but it wasn't consistent enough where it was paying my bills. So like everyone else, I was, you know, found myself in a restaurant working. Yeah. I'm bartending, like waiting tables and whatnot. And while I'm there, there's a group of girls there and I'm going to walk over there and, you know, use my Southern charm and maybe get a big tip or maybe their number or whatever.

And very quickly they asked me like, hey, are you interested in acting? And I was like, yeah, well, we're talking about pornography. And I was like, what? Is that the word they used? They use just pornography? Or did they use? Okay, I didn't know if there was like a euphemism

that they kind of used to try to real people in. I was just like crystal clear. And they were like, hey, the way this would work would be we would introduce you to our agent and you guys would have a conversation and it would go from there. And it was like, kind of shock and all because in a very real way that someone

that might struggle with pornography today, it's like you probably don't really associate those people on that screen as a real person. Yeah. And in a very real way, these people are inviting me into their world. And it was like, these are real people. Yeah.

And did you consider yourself a Christian at that point? Well, that's a great question. That's my favorite question to answer. But I would say yes. I would say I would have said that I was a Christian, but I absolutely was not. I mean, you were raised in the Bible bell. It was just kind of like, well, of course I'm a Christian because I live in South Carolina. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's just through acknowledgments. Is God real? Yes. Do I go to church? Yes. Did he create everything? Yes. And that's where it stopped. Yeah. I missed the access point. But in college, did you try to maintain that? I don't know. if you would call it like religiosity as well.

Had you stopped going to church at this point that you were in Hollywood? Yeah, I pretty much stopped going to church. So I went to church with my grandparents. But then my mom got married when I was like seven or eight. Oh, okay. So she did get remarried. Yeah, she got married very toxic relationship, drugs, abuse, all that. Not to bring us all the way back, but just to connect the dots.

That stepdad did not fulfill that father role that you were longing for a girl. up. Absolutely not. And that was a toxic situation. Was it an abusive situation for you and for your mom? Just my mother. Okay. So I'm sure that added to the longing for safety and for security to belong to someone and also just the anxiety and trauma of one not having your dad around, but also seeing the person who was taking care of you, your mom put into a place of danger. I'm sure that was hard. Yeah. It was like it was like three, it was like three, three and a half years of just a whirlwind. Yeah. But. And so did that contribute then? So after modeling, you go to Hollywood.

You mentioned in the beginning that you were always kind of just looking for success and looking for your place. Would you say that even that kind of traumatic situation with your stepdad and your upbringing contributed to that? Like, you need to get out the door. You need to do your own thing. You need to find your own way because the people at home aren't going to be the ones that are really able to care for you. I would say yes. And in a very real way, it distorted the picture of like a father in my head, which which interrupts the correct way to see the father. Right.

You know. Okay. So sorry for like going backwards. But I think it's important. I just want to kind of understand everything that led to this moment where you were in Hollywood, pretty group of girls. You're going over to talk to them and they say, have you thought about? And tell us a little bit more about your initial reaction. Was that something that you struggled with at the time?

Or was it something that you just really hadn't even thought about? Yeah, I mean, definitely nothing I'd ever thought about ever. It actually only seen porn just a few times. But I was living a very promiscuous lifestyle. Okay. So they say this and I'm like, I probably am not going to do this, but I'm intrigued and curious enough to kind of see where this would go. Yeah.

And you're desperate for money, right, at this point? Yeah, I would say more so, like, affirmation. Because financially, I was fine. Okay. You know, like, working, I was working at this place like Saddle Ranch Shop House and Middle West Hollywood, so I was, I mean, I was making good money. Yeah. But it was more so, like, I wanted to be, feel like I was seen and known, right?

And, yeah, so I'd be with the agent, and he's like, tell me about, like, how'd you grow up? what do you want to do? Why are you here? It's like, grew up pretty much just me and my mom. I want to be an actor and I guess I want to be famous. And he's like, great. Everyone will know your name. You'll be famous. You'll be famous. You'll make all this money. You'll travel the world. So I hear a counterfeit version of the dream I actually had because I knew that I would have to compromise in some capacity to access those things that he said. Because I knew that it was wrong. I knew that I didn't want to be a porn performer. I knew that I didn't want to do that. Yeah. But I heard the way he framed it. And it made me think, well, maybe that's as close as I'll get.

Yeah. Because at this point, I'm 22. And it's crazy to look back and say this. But at 22, I felt like, gosh, I've already been doing this for almost eight years. And I haven't made it yet. And then I'm in a circle of friends where, you know, they're doing stuff or universal. And, you know, anyway, like people in my circle were having more success than me. and it made me feel like I was failing, even though I wasn't.

Right. And I hear this picture that he painted, and it enticed me enough to me to say yes. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives, and we don't offer. for false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave,

even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. In your mind, did you think that it was possible that this job would be temporary and lead you to bigger and better things?

Or did you just think, you know what? if it's my fate to be a porn star, that's just what I'm going to do for the money and fame. Yeah, I mean, to be honest, like, when I did that one, I thought like, okay, I'll do one. If it's terrible, I just won't do anymore. I really didn't have any intention of, like, diving in and becoming, you know, a performer or, like, that being a career in any capacity. I just thought I would do one and then what's the worst that could happen? Because naively, I thought, well, I'm just going to, like, grab a,

camera and go into this room and come out and then they're going to give me a check and then no one's going to know what happened. Yeah. But that's not what happened. Yeah. So tell us about that. Tell us, go back a little bit to the conversation that you had with the agent. Right. He presents to you this counterfeit idea of what your future could be. And how did you decide to agree? What did that look like. Yeah, I mean, I think there were a lot of factors. Like the fact that he was saying, you know, we'll pick you up in a town car and take you to this. So there's, super interesting, there's this lab that everyone gets tested at so they can control as many variables as possible. And to be honest, like, I've been very promiscuous. It's like I've never had any kind of like STD or AIDS testing.

It's like probably wouldn't be a terrible idea to do this. So I do that. that and then and then it's like the next thing is like okay you know the test will come back once the test comes back and you're clear you know then we'll send a town car to pick you up and like making it sound like I'm important and and and then I just I agreed to that and then again like I thought it was going to be like super low key like but I get to set and there's camera A camera B camera C there's catering, there's BTS being shot, you know, there's, there's, there's all this stuff going on. And then in the back, there's this, behind the scenes. Behind the scenes, yeah.

And then, you know, there's this, like, this, like, small, like, circle of, like, Keno flow, like, lighting around this Ottoman that this girl is on. And, like, and there's, you know, three or four, like, guys, like, like, you know, camera, boom, mics, you know, sea lights, like, all this stuff. And I'm just like, this is not what I thought it would be. And it was like it was almost as big as, you know, some of the sets that I'd been on. Yeah. And I was just, I felt like I'd gone too far.

Once I got there, I felt like I'd gone too far. And it was almost like a kid at a sleepover where I was like, I got picked up in a town car. I did all these things. I signed this paperwork that I really didn't understand. What am I going to do? Like call them and tell them to come pick me up. Yeah. So you felt at that point.

it was past the point of no return. You're like, well, I'm here. And maybe you felt a little bit indebted to them because they had maybe, you know, paid money for the car and for the testing and stuff. And you're like, well, you know, you can, I'll just do it once. And then you'll never do it again.

Is that kind of what your mentality was? Yeah, like shame and guilt. You know, like shame and guilt just swarming around my head. But yeah, and then this like this guy, like this PA comes up and he's like, hey, here's a Viagra. Take it if you want to take it. Don't if you don't.

It's in your hand. It's yours. If you've never taken it before, I would bite it in half. And so I go, it's like, we'll need you in like 15, 20 minutes. And I go in the bathroom and I'm like looking at myself. I'm like, what are you doing? Like, don't do this. You shouldn't do this.

So there's something in your head, even though you wouldn't have considered yourself a Christian saying, Joshua, turn around and leave right now. It's not too late. But then the other side was like, nope, you're too far into this. You've got to stay. Wow. Yeah, very much so. where it's like the guilt and the shame almost trapped me

and convinced me to continue to compromise. And that's what happened. So I did that one film. And then very quickly after that, like, you know, this is 15, 16 years ago, like when I did the first one. And sorry to pause, but not asking for graphic details,

but like afterwards and as like this is happening, I mean, what was your thought process? Were you just like, after you decided, okay, you're going to go through with this, did you feel that, oh my gosh, what did I just do or what am I doing? Or did you just kind of try to push that out so you could get the job done? Yeah, I mean, it was, it was almost like when you, it was like a car accident where it was so intense and so traumatic that you just, you're just there.

And you remember that it did happen. Yeah. It's almost like out of body experience. Yeah. Because I mean, it's like you're like, okay, a 22 year old, you're going to take this erectile dysfunction medication. And then there's these, there's three cameras. There's a light like underneath you.

There's a boom mic right beside you. And then there's a director telling you exactly what to do. And in no way censored fashion is there intimacy there between two people. It's a director telling you to do something so that he can see it, which is very, very different than two people being intimate. So it was just so weird that I just kind of zoned out. Yeah. And felt disgusting afterwards and have this check.

And on the memo of the check, it said very graphic, like what the title of the movie was. So it was like humiliated that I had done it, felt disgusting, had this check. And I was like, never going to do this again. Never going to do this again. but very quickly, like that scene goes viral. Back then, it was like 100,000 people see it. And like, that was viral. And the representation that I have, like, that's obviously, you know,

I'm violating code of conduct. So fired very quickly through the great- But you're violating code of conduct. Regarding, like, mainstream. Oh. Like mainstream representation. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

Yeah. Gotcha. Or it's like we can't be associated with your likeness because you're doing pornography. Okay. So you very quickly kind of got pigeonholed into this. Okay. And then my mom finds out, you know, like I live in a really small town. So one person tells one person what tells another person.

And then I'm having this really awkward conversation with my mom. Yeah. And what did she have to say? Man. Joshua Luke. Like, did you do this? Yeah. What are you thinking?

And my mom's tone. never changed. It was always, I love you, but you're so much better than that. Why would you do that? And just for me, it took a long time for me to feel what I should have felt in that moment was, you know, my mom was 16 when she had me and she worked 60, 70 hours a week to, you know, so that I could go to basketball camp, so that I could go to acting camp, so that I could get, like, you know, new, like, comp cards and stuff like that. So many sacrifices. that she made for me that I essentially just blew up in flames. And so like that shame and guilt, I could have had, you know, the resilience to say,

okay, I made a mistake. Maybe these opportunities are not going to be possible, but absolutely had other options to do in my life. But for me, like, it's kind of an anomaly where it's like never did drugs, really, like, didn't need money. Like I was in the industry because I wanted to become famous. And then once I was in the industry, I felt trapped. So, you know, that one turned into like, you know, condemnation to myself, my mom finding out me getting let go from that agency.

And then that. So I thought that the agency that the girls who, I must be confused, the girls at the restaurant who said, do you want to do porn, I thought they introduced you to the agent who then led you to this pornography. be opportunity. Yeah, so I'm talking about two different agencies. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So mainstream, like, modeling acting. They let you go. And now you only have this guy. He's like, well, let's do it again. Yeah. So he calls me and offers me a contract. So now like a, like, the point. Because he's happy about the 100,000 views or whatever. Yeah. So they offered me a contract.

And I honestly thought like, okay, it would be dishonest if I, if I said, I truly felt like there was nothing else I could do. But it definitely was the easiest option. Yeah. And was it good money at the time? Like, did it seem like good money? I mean, it became really good money. But I mean, it was like I was working, you know, I was making like between like $5 and $700 like per scene. And then I was doing like 20 to 30 scenes a month. Wow. Wow. So and then, you know, that that rate got higher. Right. But yeah, so that that one compromise led to six years of me being in the industry. I mean, doing over a thousand films and the whole time it was just like compromise after compromise after compromise and I believed along the way well if I'm gonna like whatever it is for good or for bad it's like I have to be

I have to be achieving but very high cheaper personality so it's like I have to be the best so and I have these you know these small goals where it's like once I eclipse a million dollars I'll be happy I did that it didn't work. Yeah. Like once I am nominated for X amount of awards, I did that. It didn't work. And it's like,

once I win like performer the year, which is the highest award, like a guy can win in that industry. Essentially for me, it's like it makes you're the best. So I won that award. And when I won it, it destroyed me

because it didn't give me the validation that I thought it would. Yeah. And that, you know, already struggling with depression, but that kind of spiraled out of control. And that led to me,

like being very certain that I was going to take my life. Tell us a little bit, before we get to how you got out of the industry, tell us a little bit about the industry. Because, I mean, the people listening to this podcast know the damaging effects of pornography. It's a Christian podcast, so we understand. But, you know, there's a lot of people out there that say there's nothing wrong with quote-unquote ethical porn. Or as long as everyone is consenting, it's fine. What's the harm in it?

There's no victims. What did you find? and what were some of the most disturbing and maybe shocking parts of the industry that people just don't know about but need to? Yeah, I mean, I think that like true consent is hard to give when we're talking about pornography because maybe I consent to something at one time, but I'm not really clear on what I'm giving consent to because when you go to set, you sign a contract that, you're signing away all rights to audio, video, any imagery, and you get paid a one day rate. You get paid a day rate. But you're not told what you're going to do. And sometimes you're not even told who you're going to do it with. So you show up in this very vague scenario just knowing that you're going to do something around sex. And more often

than not, like there's a lot of compromise going on. There's a lot of like girls doing things they don't want to do, you know, directors telling guys to be rougher than they want to be. And then also just girls that are literally being trafficked and their traffic being there. And it's like you didn't really like, it seemed normal at the time. It's like, well, this is just the guy that comes to set with this girl and then he takes her home. And then for some reason, the check always goes to him instead of to her. Yeah. But in a very real way, I mean, very often, there's someone and some, in a lot of these girls,

lives that are manipulating them to a degree where they're doing this because they feel like they have to. And would you say it's worse for women and girls than it is for men in the industry? I mean, I don't know if there's a difference between like the exploitation and what's called like gay porn versus straight porn. I don't know if that's the right terminology. But like would you say that there's equal exploitation and abuse happening between men and women or is it worse for girls?

I would say it's worse for girls because the culture there, it's built on compromise where there's 30 people that I knew in the industry that have either died of suicide or overdose. And the trajectory of their life in the industry looked like this. They get in the industry and they have a no list. So a no list is things they don't want to do and sometimes people they don't want to work with. and then the agent will, you know, monitor this girl's career, and then once it plateaus and it starts to, you know, the phone's not ringing as much, the agent will go to different studios and say, how much will you give me for this thing that you've not seen her do? And then the agent takes the highest bidder and goes to the girl and says, hey, out of nowhere, this studio is offering you $50,000 to do this thing. I know you said you didn't want to do it, but if you're, you

you do it, you'll be relevant again. She does it. It becomes arbitrary. And then now it's just something that she does. And then once all those nose are gone, there's escorting and then there's feature dancing. So feature dancing is a girl's at a strip club. They have some notoriety. The club pays them a nominal fee to be there. But that only works if they have notoriety. So if they're popular. Right. And then escorting the same thing where the agent will frame it where it's like, It's basically a scene. They're going to get tested.

They just happen to be this random person, and you're going to go spend a weekend in them. And that happens with guys as well. But once the phone stops ringing, they've now spent five, six, seven years living this life saying, like, well, if I compromise, I'll become relevant again. And then when there's no more compromises left to make, and the phone's not ringing anymore, in a very real way your worth is tied to, well, me selling myself for sex is who I am, and that is all that I'm worth. Yeah.

So what am I to do? And then sometimes it's either I want to die or let me start taking some type of drugs to medicate the pain to make me feel better, and then overdose happens. So that literally happened to 30 people over the last 10 years I was in the industry with. And that was the trajectory that my life was on. Yeah. Where I'd compromise so often. I mean, you know, we're talking about it.

So let's just go here. So at the end of my career, I did, for a six-month period, I signed a contract with a gay, like a gay, like studio. They paid me a massive fee to do, like, to agree to do 30 films. And for me, someone who never had any kind of same sex attraction, any kind of like homosexual interaction with people. For me, I'd sold myself for sex for so long that it was all the same. And for me, it's like, okay, it would be less painful for me to compromise my sexuality

than it is to continue doing what I'm doing because I felt in a very well way. There's nothing else that I can do. there's no other value that I have for the world. So if I could make the same amount of money for three scenes a month that I could, 30, that's going to be much better on my mental, emotional health. And I was wrong. Would you say it got even worse at that point? And why do you think that is?

I mean, obviously, like you said, that you weren't same sex attracted, but in your mind, you probably, I'm guessing at this point, didn't really have any moral qualms with it. And as you said, you were doing fewer scenes than you were before. So why do you think that made it even worse for you? Yeah, I mean, I think it just this, like, how just crazy it was. Because you have two guys that are, like, you're saying you're straight, and you're doing this, and you're injecting yourself with a needle so that you could have a fictitious, you know, erection. And it's just so, it's like so, it's like so, twisted from like what is normal.

Yeah. And it's like when you manipulate yourself to that point where it's just like I'm operating in a sense where it's like I'm okay being masochistic to myself because I feel like that's how much I'm worth. And you have two people there doing that. And just like the level of how sad it was where it's like there's two people doing this thing that they don't want to do like and it's super unnatural. And then like you're in there like in between sets.

Like you're watching straight porn that try to like be able to finish the same. Even with, I mean, it's just like it's so dark and so twisted. And like in that just being a Tuesday for me. Like it started to get to me at a level that I don't even know if I could under, I could really like articulate like how like, Just disgusted I was with myself. Because I mean, so many people in the industry that maybe they're making a lot of money, maybe they're the most popular person in that industry.

But when you lay your head down on a pillow, it doesn't matter how many comments you have in your bank account or how many followers you have or if you have a blue checkmark. Like, you let your head down on a pillow and you're selling yourself for sex. And you know that that's probably always going to be on the internet. You're not proud of yourself. And even worse, there's a passion that's, in your heart that God put there for you to do something that not only glorifies him,

but brings you joy. It brings you satisfaction. And that dream starts to dwindle because you think that you no longer have access to it. And what do you say to people that say, well, sex work is work. The work that you do as a so-called sex worker, whether it's a prostitute or a porn star, it's no different than being an accountant. It's no different than doing anything else. and yet what you're describing is a different type of depression than I hear from people who, you know, just don't like their job in a cubicle.

Yeah. What do you think about that? That, well, sex work is just like any other form of work. Why is it different? Yeah, I would just say like, hey, if you were, if you're watching porn on your phone and someone walked behind you, what would you do? You would cover it up. Why? It's not, it's not something that's meant to be out in the open. So that person on the screen, think about how they feel. Think about how that person. and feels when that is their real life. So regardless of how you, what you communicate, like how you feel publicly, it's like, you, of course people say, like, this is great, this is my life, I love what I do, I'm, you know, I should be able to do this. The reality is how you feel inside is not what you're communicating.

Because you tell yourself a lie so long that you create a plausible reality based on that lie. Because you are your shame, you are your guilt, and you see life through the lens of that. And whenever people say, I always think when they say, oh, sex is just like any other act. It's no different. Sex work is just like, right. And even the people who say that, I don't think really believe it because you say that, but at the same time, you know that rape is worse than someone coming up and punching you in the arm. Right.

You know that sexual assault is worse than someone kicking you in the shins. Yeah. Why? Everyone knows that there is something sacred. There is something different about sex. that is inextricably intertwined with your emotions, your spirituality, and your mental health in a way that someone punching you in the jaw just isn't. And so I just don't, I don't believe it when people say that, oh, well, sex work is worked just

like any other work. I mean, as we've just talked about with you, you didn't think you had moral qualms with it. And yet it was crushing your spirit, right? Yeah, 100%. I mean, it just progressively got worse and worse. And I'll paint another scenario for you where, so, more often than not, you end up dating people in that industry. And I was sitting at a restaurant

with, you know, a group of friends. And I'm sitting there with this girl that I'm dating. And then across from us are sitting another couple. All of us are in the industry. And I had worked with, had sex with his girlfriend that week. And he had had sex with my girlfriend that day. And being someone who, you know, from South Carolina, grew up, you know, 16 year old, you know, my mom had me when she was 16. My mom loves telling the story of me, like, throwing a can of cream corn at this guy, like, trying to talk to her in a grocery store, like, waking up, like, feeling jealous, like in a normal relationship. Yeah. Like the jealous boyfriend. Yeah. Now amplified, sitting at a table, knowing that this person that says, well,

a person that is my friend, that he's having sex with this person that is my girlfriend, and I'm having sex with his girlfriend, and we're lying to ourselves in this relationship, saying that we're in a monogamous relationship. So it's like your reality is so distorted. How can it not be mentally and emotionally traumatizing? How can it not lead to depression? How can it not lead to suicide? When you try to pretend like something that's so painful and actually so masochistic,

isn't like the pain is real regardless of you identified or communicated or not and then you know there's only you know a matter of time before something happens and so tell us what that was what was your breaking point yeah so i i had done i had done a scene and then i was just like i'm just done i'm done and this was still when you were doing gay yeah yeah okay and i'm like i'm gonna I'm going to go home and I'm going to take my life. And I thought about it several times, but I'd made a specific plan. How long had you been suicidal? How long had you been suicidal at this point?

I'd say probably two years. Oh, okay. Long time. It went from something I considered to something that I felt like I wanted to do to something that I was planning to do. They're probably like pretty much from the first time that I did the first like gay movie. Like that was like when I was like, okay, my life is over. So I do this movie and I'm like, okay, when I get home, I'm going to do this and I was actually

and I filmed in Atlanta and I was flying back from Atlanta and I was just thinking about this on the on the way home land in LAX, get my bags. I'm like, I'm going to go for some reason it made sense to me. I'm going to go to deposit this check and then I'm going to go to take care of that. I'm not sure why. I thought I needed to deposit the check, but that's what I had planned on doing. and normally I would go to like ATM or Dropbox because I didn't want to look some in the eye

and slide a check across the counter with something on the memo that said something that I was humiliated by. But this day, that wasn't an option. ATM, broken, Dropbox, closed. So I had to face the music. And I walked over to the counter. I'm like, who cares? I'm going to die today anyway.

Slide the check across the counter and transaction happens, hands me the receipt, and I go to walk out, and the person looks me in the eye, says, Joshua, are you okay? Wow. Joshua, is there something I can do for you? And I just bolt.

And Allie, well, it was so important about that. You just ran away when he said that. You didn't even try to respond. Wow. Yeah. What was so heavy about that was there was about an 18-month period, maybe closer to like a year to somewhere somewhere between a year and 18 months where I hadn't heard my real name because as you have in your life it's like if someone who cares about you

they're not going to allow you to continue doing something that's harmful to yourself so my mom would say I love you but why are you doing that you need to stop doing that like this is not who you are like I raised you better than this you know you're better than this so you have two choices is when you have people like that in your life. You can either listen to them or push them away. So I pushed everyone away. So the only name that I was hearing was a pseudonym. And then when I heard my real name,

it broke me out of this like numbness. Yeah. And I literally like ran home. And who knows why that person decided to look you in the eye and say your name. And I always think about this. Whenever I hear people's testimonies, there is always a moment where God puts someone in someone's life

and they do something that seems small and commonplace. I talked to someone who used to be an atheist, and he was on campus and a campus ministry had put some books on a table to pick up, and it was C.S. Lewis that ended up, you know, leading him to Christ. And the person who put the book there, they probably didn't even think of it. They probably weren't even thinking of it. The person who said your name and looked you in the eye and simply asked if you were okay, you just don't know how God is going to use someone's very common,

place action or your own words to then change their life. So continue, continue on that. You ran away and then what happened? Yeah, I mean, I ran away and called my mom. And it's like, we have this, you know, this very emotional. I thought that she was going to be mad at me, but she wasn't. And she was just like, just come home. So I pick up the phone. So prodigal son type situation. Yeah. Yeah. So like, I wish it was more Luke 15, but, you know, when I called home, It was like come home, but I did, and I quit the industry that day. I picked up the phone, called my agent, put out a PR, like press release, did all these things and left, but also instead of dealing with the pain and the reality of the mess that I'd made

with my life, I covered up my tattoos, I deleted my social media, and I got a job at a gym, hoping that it would just go away. But the reality was, especially back then where there was like skin. Max and like late night like late night HBO and I was like on all these movies so between that and me just winning this like performer the year award like pretty pretty recent to that it's like very relevant so everywhere I went it's like aren't you that guy really and just couldn't get away from it so I spent but I spent two years living like that like lying until I got found out I would lie and make up things, and then I'll get found out.

And that went on for about two years. And then in spite of that, working at the gym, it's like, okay, if I'm here, I'm going to do whatever needs to be done, I'm going to become the best trainer I can. And I work my way up to management. And while I'm there, there's this girl that I had my eye on for a while, and I was like, I'm going to ask her out on a date. And I asked her on a date, and she says no. I was like, well, gosh. Yeah. She's like, yeah, yeah.

And I immediately fell in love, you know. Yeah. But then later she was like, you know, we can go for a run. I'll give you that. We can go for a run. And maybe she had heard like something, you know, bad a reputation, like not exactly what, but she agreed to go on a run with me. And every person that I tried to have a relationship with, I would withhold the truth from

because I thought for sure once I told them, they're like I'm out of here yeah um so with her I'm waiting on her to get to this park and we're gonna go for a run and just feel really guilty I'm just like I just can't lie to this person like she doesn't deserve to be hurt she doesn't she doesn't she like she doesn't need to deal with my mess so I'm just going to tell her and I'll leave it'll be done so we get there to to to run but we never ran and we just started walking and I was like hey um I just want to tell you something I've done a little bit of porn. She's like, what?

I was like, all right, man up, tell the full truth. So you wanted to tell her right away, not even wait until you got into a relationship. I'm like in my head for like 10 minutes. Because like every person I met, it was like I was looking over my shoulder just waiting to get found out. Yeah.

Because there was just one Google search away from like knowing everything I didn't want them to know. And so I just, I told her that. And then I was like, okay, tell her the truth. And I told her everything. And then she just kind of like blank stare. So you weren't on a Christian at this point. No.

Okay. Yeah. And then, you know, she's just like looking at me like, I can't believe you just said that. And then she kind of like takes a second processes. And then she looks me in the eye and says, I want you to know that I believe that a person's not defined by the worst thing they've ever done. And I don't believe that a person is defined by the greatest thing they'll ever accomplish. I believe that God defines who a person is. Do you know who God is?

And I was like, yeah, you know, for me. But for me, it was like I was so used to putting on this like first date mask, right? Where it's like, I don't know who I am. I'm just going to be whoever you want me to be. And I tried that. And she cut right through it where she's like, okay, well, what's your relationship with Jesus look like? Are you plugged in community? I'm like, okay, you're speaking like another language.

I don't know what you're talking about. You realize that you weren't going to be able to be a character for her. Yeah. And then I'm just like, you know, just surrendered to. like, okay, I don't. Maybe, maybe no. I don't know. And she's like, well, I became a Christian when I was in seventh grade. My mom, dad, brother, sister, all Christians. And it's the most important thing in my life. And by no means, am I perfect? But it is the basis in which I make decisions. But anyway, what, you know, what do you want to do with your life? What are your goals? What are your aspirations? What kind of food do you like? And I'm just like,

what? You don't want me to leave? And we just have this. like really great conversation. And then we text all week. And then we end up, you know, she invites me to go to church. So not where she normally went to church, but where a lot of people that, um, were at the gym that we, that we were at, go to church. Like, would you like to go to this church? And I was like, sure. You've cultivated this curiosity in me. So sure. And we go. And I'm expecting what I remember church to be like where it's like a three piece suit. And if you got a wrinkle in your shirt, you're going to hell. You know, like, um, no tattoos. But I go there and there's this guy in a T-shirt and jeans and boots in Raleigh, North Carolina,

and he's talking about Jesus like he's his friend. And his relationship with Jesus changed his life. And he wants everyone to know him. And he starts telling the story in 1st Samuel about Mephebelcheth and how Mofelbosheveth was a last remaining member of Jonathan's family. And David, when he took over, historically, that previous kingdom was wiped out because they didn't want anyone think they had access to that new kingdom. but David was different. So he sent his guard to search from my fablishath. And when he found him,

not only did he invite him into his kingdom, he restored his land. And then he pivoted where it's like, hey, God wants to meet you in the place where you are expecting death because Romans 323 says that we've all sin and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 623 says that wages sin is death. So if we're all guilty and we're all impending death, what are we to do? Jesus lays down his life. He is the bridge that we need to access God because we're separated from him. And he did that not because you're good enough. He did that because he loves you. And the Holy Spirit did something in me,

and I gave my life to Christ. And that person that had that conversation with, that walk turned into a, that's my wife. So we've been married for six years and we have three kids. But the pivot from that has been like God repurposing my story and redeeming me and essentially like very, like Genesis 50, 20, where God's repurposed my influence and redeemed me and allowed me to have a very unique voice speaking into the darkness and the depth of pornography.

Do you struggle with the memories and the visuals of what you experienced for so long? Like, how has God worked that out in your heart and mind? Yeah, so that's a great question. So for me, like the memories, like praise God, like that was something that in a miracle in that moment, like I was having night tears for two years. When I gave my life to Christ, that was the last time that I had any nightmares. The last time that I could really remember like vivid details. But what still existed was like a poor like understanding of who I was. I'm not a great understanding of who God is, who people are, the way that I appropriate myself

into the world, like thought patterns, habits. So essentially, like, those things and the mental and emotional trauma that was still there, like those things had to be dealt with over time. And for your wife, I mean, obviously she sounds like because of the grace of God, she understands forgiveness and becoming a new creation. But was it something that you still had to kind of work through as first a dating couple and then an engaged couple because obviously going from having sex with multiple partners to being in a monogamous marriage where sex is a symbol of a covenant of, you know, before God between two people?

You went from the counterfeit version of love and intimacy to the real version of, And like what was that journey kind of like for both of you? I'm sure it had, there was a lot to work on and work through and talk through. Yeah, for me, what I found when I was seeing in a room with her when like, okay, I want to follow Jesus. She's passionate about following Jesus. And then individually and collectively, we committed to pursuing purity and also pursuing Jesus. So for me, like her relationship with me was important. but the same week that I gave my life to Christ,

I walked into the church that, you know, that church there, and I'm like, hey, can I talk to a pastor? And I tell him my story, and he plugs me into this meeting with this guy, his name's Andrew Yates. And he had recently graduated from DTS, and he had moved to Raleigh to help launch another campus at this church. And he was supposed to spend 30 minutes with me, just basic, you know, observation, interpretation, application.

like this is how you read the Bible understanding context. And that 30 minutes turned into three hours, and that three hours turned into 15 to 20 hours a week for five years. So he disciples me. And what it allowed me to understand was I could only be as free as I was willing to be honest. And through like some encouragement, but a lot of kicking in the butt, right? Because I had people applauding me for the wrong reasons for so long,

but I didn't have anyone being honest with me. they were, I pushed them out of my life. Right. So, like, yes, like, there were definitely, like, challenges where, you know, we're, we're sitting in a room together having a conversation. It's like, I don't know what to do because we're not going to have sex. You know, like, that was a real thing. But, like, finding out who I was in Christ allowed me to see her differently.

Yeah. And then us walking together and, you know, doing, you know, like, doing, like, you know, we were both in a small group and then we were in a couple small group. and then once we got engaged, we did pre-marital counseling. And for me, like, it was really important to, like, as I was understanding myself, it's like, you don't love people best. Like, this is good marriage advice. You can't love someone the way that you want to be loved always.

Because my wife, she loves quality time, where I, you know, I desire, like, words of affirmation and things like that. So for her, I could give her everything in the world, take her to wherever I want to take her. buyer all these things and she doesn't feel loved unless she has my undivided attention. She wants my phone facing down or in my pocket. Not at a restaurant, just me engaged with her and that's it. Like that's how she feels loved.

And I didn't know how to do that and I didn't understand that, but I loved her enough to figure it out. So I think like that that was part of the process. And also I did about two years of counseling where just having just honest, open, transparent, conversations just, I think that I am where I am today, and I wouldn't be as far along as I am in my life, in my career, and in my walk with Jesus, if I wouldn't have done the hard work to kind of dig into the wounds. Because as I was healing, I actually found out like, oh, there's this issue over here, and there's this issue over here, and dealt with all those things, and having the opportunity to connect with mentors and doing different things, it

allowed me to find healing in places that I didn't even know I needed. Yeah. Yeah. And now you are the father of three little ones. Yeah. And you are the dad that you always wanted, but you didn't have growing up. How is your story, your past your experience, not just in the porn industry, but even growing up without a dad and wanting that, how is that all shaped how you approach family and parenting. Yeah. It's hard to tell a story about Craig. It's okay. But so when our first son was born, we named him canon. So canon in Hebrew means measuring stick. So for me, he was the measure of God's grace because I didn't experience having a father. And I didn't even see it, you know, modeled. So how could I be something I've never seen or experienced? And just was overwhelmed with his grace,

to allow me to be a dad. And he was. he's born and he's all slimy and they're wiping him off and I walk over there and then you know one of the nurses like you can touch him and I reach I reach my hand out and he grabs my finger and like in a really real way I felt God say I love you more than that and it's like realizing that I've always had the father that I desired to have and that I just didn't know I had access to him. And I mean, just me, just me like understanding how to be a son to the father allowed me to be a father to my sons. Yes, it's really amazing what parenting teaches you about how much God loves us,

both in the sense that we are his children. Yeah. But also in the sense that, wow, how much did he have to love us to send his son to die for us? As much as we love our children, can you imagine sacrificing your child on behalf of someone or something else? You would have to be motivated by so much love in order to do that. And so there's just a whole level of gospel, a whole new level of understanding God's love that happens through parenting. And so I love that he has used that. as another phase of just redemption and sanctification for you.

Yeah, it's almost like you understand the tone of God. So when you see like John 1415, like if you love me, you obey my commandments. It's not if you love me, you'll do what I say. Yeah. If you love me, you'll trust what I say is best. And I just love your testimony because it's a reminder that God brings people from the uttermost places. from the darkest crevices, from the seemingly hopeless spots, and he makes them new. And he can do that with anyone.

Tell me a little bit about the impact of your testimony. That's what you do. You go around and you share your story. You are using what Satan meant for evil for good. And that's what God does. He brings beauty from ashes. That's maybe my favorite characteristic of God. Have you had interactions and conversations with people who have said, wow,

God used your testimony to change my life and to open my eyes? Yeah, I mean, humbly, thousands. And it's just that and real, like seeing God repositioned me and used my testimony to have influence in places where seeing things happen like, I have the opportunity to speak at Capitol Hill and be part of a symposium with this legislation that has now made its way to the Senate, which is the Lee Bill. And this, this, like, earn an act, it's going to provide actual age verification. It's going to provide, like, real consent. And just, you know, right now, anyone can hop on a site and put in a fake birthday.

But the moment that you have to provide legitimate age verification through a driver license or a passport, Now, like, sure it's encrypted data, but there's something very real about putting your driver's license number there. So my hope is that, A, that will protect children because, you know, average age of exposure is 11 years old. You know, and then people who are exposed under 15, 61% of the time is accidental exposure because it's, you don't have to go looking for it. It's so prevalent. It's on social media. Yeah, it's everywhere. And Pornhub did just get removed from Instagram, which I know that's not the only hub for pornography, but I

I see that as a big victory. It's a huge win. And it's a display of the darkness that's there because you're saying, okay, how harmful can this be? Well, there's 600 incidents of child pornography being on Pornhub. There's astronomical cases of people that are really being raped. Like, I was in D.C. with someone, and they were telling their story where they were in Vegas on a trip with someone they were dating. They were drugged. They were raped.

They invited someone else over there. They raped her and they filmed all this and they put this up on Pornhub. And it was monetized for three years. Wow. She ends up pressing charges, wins her case, rape, sex trafficking. And these images still exist on Google because Google says, because her face isn't clearly identifiable and there's not clear coercion happening, then we're not going to take it down.

So that's the evil that we're up against. So the fact that I can play a... These are the same companies, too. that want to chastise the public for not being, you know, not being compassionate enough or empathetic enough or social justice enough. And they use that as kind of their virtue signal. Meanwhile, they are complicit in at best

the sexual abuse of adults and children. Yeah, I mean, it's in a very real way. Because, I mean, again, like, maybe people don't realize this, but like when you're watching pornography, you're contributing to sex trafficking. You're contributing to rape being on the internet that's being monetized because it's exactly that.

It's the, the porn industry, no one's paying for porn. It works the same as YouTube. Your YouTube channel or your Facebook, it gets monetized through viewership in ads. So that's why like Pornhub coming off of Instagram is important. That's why like MasterCard and Visa stopping their engagements with Pornhub because the ads can't be purchased anymore. So like getting in their pockets is, you know, that's going to wake them up because they're, obviously they don't care about morality.

They don't care about children. They don't care about anyone but themselves. So through viewership, you are in a very real way contributing to people being harmed. Yeah, and that's why there's no such thing as so-called ethical porn. Of course, from a Christian perspective, because, I mean, the entirety of the Bible kind of speaks to the importance of the body and being made in the image of God. But also, we as Christians, 1 Corinthians 619 says the body is the dwelling place for the Holy Spirit. God made flesh, Jesus, he came in bodily form. He resurrected in bodily form.

We will also be resurrected in bodily form. That's how much God cares about the body. Yeah, 100%. And so Christians have a motivation and a vigor behind our protection of the vulnerable, but also the protection of sex, the protection of the body in a way that others don't because we're motivated by the belief that we are made in God's image and the gospel itself. And so I'm thankful for you and how you're using that motivation, how God, of course, is using you and how he has worked through you. Again, using what Satan meant for evil for good to bring himself

glory. And that's really what it's about. So thank you so much. How can people support you, follow you. Yeah. So there's this really, really amazing project that I'm in the middle working on. So it's called Unmentionable. So it'll function like a podcast, but it's really an eight-part documentary. And we went to Hollywood and filmed some content of me being in places that I hadn't been in over a decade. I had the opportunity to do a chapel service for the Los Angeles Chargers, went back to South Carolina, went to Florence, went to some places. And we're just really painting a picture of how dark the industry is. We've interviewed a lot of people that have been in the industry, been in sex work, but also some of the people that was in my life as I was making

compromise after compromise. Why did you say yes? You know, like getting to the root of things. So there's this podcast called Unmentionable, and you can find that on my website, which is joshua broom.me. And then, like, that's like the big thing. And then also the legislation. The legislation's huge. Yes, yes, I agree. I mean, I know that this is probably controversy. I'm not asking you to co-sign this. I think that pornography should be illegal. I don't think that there is any good case to say that it is free speech, not all. I mean, obscenity shouldn't be protected by the First Amendment. That's my opinion, but I know some people don't go that far. Yeah, I would say I would completely agree with you. And what that would allow me to do is to go into court and say, hey, I want those images, down because I'm there's there's things that I agree to do for seven hundred dollars

15 years ago that have been that someone has made two million dollars off of and it's like no I don't want to continue to have my consent you can't have my consent not only that it's hurting me it's hurting my family yeah you know so it's like I like that's I love that there's legislation that that's in process yes it's going to have like that's going to have consent have a timetable where I should be able to go and say, hey, that's obscene. I don't want that there. All pornography is obscene, by the way.

But I mean, already, obviously, child sex abuse material is illegal. And yet the fact that pornography is not only legal, but so accessible. And as we know, very often, consuming one kind of pornography typically leads to even worse kind of pornography, like child sex. abuse and they access that. And so if you made it just as difficult as possible to access any kind of sex abuse or pornography, especially when you're talking about the women who they were raped, they were sexually assaulted, and people were making millions of dollars off of that. And Google will do nothing about it. At some point, even as, you know, a limited government conservative, the law has to step in. Right. The law steps in. So that's my opinion. Yeah. And things like that,

So I have a podcast called counterfeit culture, and it's kind of around that idea of like Romans 12 too. It's like we're either being conformed by the world or we're being transformed by the renewing of our mind. Yeah. And then like that's the that's the what and the how is second Corinthians 10.5. It's like we have to take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ. Yeah. So it's like if we don't know what is good and what is evil, that line is going to be, you know, blurred. And I love, I could keep going, but like John Brevere's book, Killing Kryptonite was was the catalyst.

for a lot of the things that I've done, but there's this, the 18th chapter of that book, he talks about this, essentially this like phony Jesus, where if I call myself a Christian and I do X, Y, and Z, it justifies me to do whatever I want, and I can live however I want, and I can have whatever relationship that I want. I can compromise however I want, because if I say one thing, it justifies everything else, but that's not how the gospel works. Jesus says, lay down your life. Yep. laid on your life.

I think that's a good place to end, although I think that we probably could talk for an hour more. So thank you again, just for using your testimony and using God's story and you. I really appreciate it, and I encourage everyone to follow him and support the projects that he is working on

and also to get in the know about legislation. We often say politics matter because policy matters because people matter. Politics affects policy, policy affects people. So the laws matter. The people that we vote for matters. So thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time to come on.

Absolutely, glad to be here. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over high, and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.