Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 748 | From Drag Queen & Drug Dealer to Jesus Follower | Guest: Benjamin Blake Howard

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Today we’re joined by Benjamin Blake Howard, pastor and author of "From Mascara to Manhood," to discuss his story of leaving a life of homosexuality and drag queen performance and finding the Lord. We discuss his upbringing and what events led to him creating his “drag character,” as well as why it was so appealing to him at the time. He shares about his decision to leave drag behind, his struggle with homosexuality, and how he ended up at a ministry school (of all places), where he ultimately found true healing and redemption in Christ. He offers some encouragement and advice on how to reach those who are struggling as he did.  --- Today's Sponsors: StartMail — keep your email private - every email can be encrypted! Go to StartMail.com/ALLIE for 50% off your first year! Good Ranchers — change the way you shop for meat today by visiting GoodRanchers.com/ALLIE and use promo code 'ALLIE' for $20 off your first box of America’s best meat and seafood! Carly Jean Los Angeles — use promo code 'ALLIEB' to save 20% off your first order at CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com! PublicSq. — download the PublicSq app from the App Store or Google Play, create a free account, and begin your search for freedom-loving businesses! --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 717 | From Porn Star to Pastor | Guest: Joshua Broome https://apple.co/3Y8C3be --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. From Drag Queen to Jesus follower, this is one man's testimony of going from living a life of promiscuity and depravity away from the Lord to being brought back by the Lord to a place of salvation and resumption. redemption and restoration. And his story is just incredible. I know it's going to be an encouragement to you. And at the end, he's going to give us some advice for how do we love people who are, who identify as gay, who identify as lesbian, transgender, drag queen, whatever it is. And his

advice is really, really clear, really pointed and I think really helpful. So you're going to love this conversation. It's brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use promo code Alley at checkout for a discount. That's good ranchers.com code Alley. Blake, thanks so much for joining us. I recently heard part of your story on another podcast and I was like, I've got to have him on and for him to share his testimony with my audience. So just start from the beginning.

Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. Yeah, of course. So I'm a minister here in San Antonio, Texas. My wife and I moved here in like fall of 2018. I was a pastor, but now I'm associate pastor here and now we travel and we do different things to kind of like bring awakening to the LGBTQ community. We have just been honestly just been listening to the Lord and allowing him to open the doors. there's been plenty of opportunities and we're just kind of allowing him to guide it. Being able to speak into that community, I have come out of the community.

So it's definitely something near to my heart. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about that. You wrote a book from Mascara to Manhood. It came out in 2019. You talk about your journey from identifying as gay, correct? And you were actually a drag queen. And then you came to know the Lord.

and you got pulled out of that. So before we even get into your testimony of knowing Christ, like, tell us a little bit about your upbringing. How did you decide that, okay, I think that I am gay and deciding that you wanted to perform as a drag queen. What did that look like? Yeah, so starting off, you know, I grew up in the South. I grew up in the Bible Belt.

It was kind of, you know, I grew up pretty in a safe environment. I really wasn't exposed to too much. But the biggest thing that I didn't get was I never got the sex talk. And, you know, growing up, I was very close to my mom. And I'm with my dad. He was always working and trying to revive our family. I just kind of grew closer to my mom. I was around my mom majority of the time.

Yeah. So I had a lot more of a stronger female example. I would say from about the age of six or seven is when I realized that I like guys. Oh, really? That's super young. Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest thing that what shocks people is that sometimes, you know, the Bibles says were born into sin and sometimes, you know, like we're not, we can't really

control our sin cycles or our sin patterns. But the biggest thing was I knew that I was different. knew that there was something different about me. I knew that for whatever reason when all the girls in my class would talk about the boys that I felt the same way. So then about the age of seven, I was actually sexually molested. It was presented to me as a game at first by another one of my friends who was pretty close in age to me. and then later and started involving his older brother. And it was honestly,

until I was like 19, 20 years old that I realized that what happened wasn't okay. And that was like molestation. Yeah. And if you don't mind me asking just because I think it can be helpful for like parents who, you know, they have kids who have gone through this. Like was this something that happened at like his house? or how did this go on without the knowledge of parents?

So I grew up in a cul-de-sac and our street was literally the only street for the neighborhood. And so me and some of my friends would ride our bikes around and we would go to each other's houses. And so it was someone that I had been to his house plenty of times. And it was my parents, my parents knew his parents pretty well. So, I mean, we were kind of, we were, you know, it was considered a safe place. Right. I think the biggest thing that is to take to take into consideration that majority of the time that happens by people that we trust or even family members or people really close to us. And so when people are like, you know, I have I mean, I have a daughter.

I'm very picky about who I leave her with for that particular reason. But I mean, it can really, it can really happen anywhere, honestly. Yeah. So I let that happen and kind of and of course again like struggling with the same sex attraction thoughts and kind of those things like that really solidified everything. It really wasn't the seed that planted at all. It was really like what solidified everything. It really was what made sense to whatever everything that I was already feeling.

So then moving forward I kind of just I knew. now I knew what sex was and I kind of was thinking, you know, I liked it, but I felt bad and I didn't, I really didn't like having this feeling. I actually never told anybody. And I think that's a super, that's the most common thing is people, you know, that happens to, they don't tell. And then if they do, then their fears that people are not going to believe them. So you were really close to your mom, but you didn't tell her this either because you just knew, innately, oh, this is maybe something I'm not supposed to be doing. You were being

molested by this boy and I guess his older brother. Were you also told by them like, hey, this is our secret? Don't tell anyone. Is that part of why you kind of stayed in hiding? Honestly, they didn't even say anything. I just kind of I knew

and I felt like in me it was not right and there was something wrong about it. But at the same time, like it gave me physical a like language, I guess, and you put it that way to what I was feeling. So it was like, I guess it's like, and I want to explore this, but I don't want to talk about it. Yeah. And I grew up in church. I grew up, you know, around church. We, we attended a mega church that

was in our community. And I remember like every time that the pastor would call for an altar call or like do like a a guided sinner's prayer kind of type thing i would i would say it every time because i felt like that was something that god would just never forgive me of and i kept having to like ask forgiveness for right um and it was something i kept like low key for a long time you know i always growing up i would connect more with the female characters and the cartoons and and those kind of things so i i you know i you know know, I wanted to to be them. I wanted to grow up and be like them.

And so I just had kind of this female mindset. And so I think, you know, my parents gave me everything that they thought that they could to, you know, give me a good life and protect me from anything and everything that I couldn't be exposed to. But the reality is, it's when you're least expected. It's when you you turn your head for a minute is when things start happening. And all of these feelings started bubbling up inside of me. And I remember we were at a dinner. And my dad, so we had been talking about American Idol. And this was like back in the day when American Idol, like you had to go and vote on your phone and like call the number.

And then it was like 09 for, you know, every as many times as you possibly could. And I remember there was one particular singer that I really liked that I thought style was super cool. And of course, at the end of the day, I thought it was attractive. And my mom had mentioned at dinner that he had had an interview or something along those lines on the local news. And he had mentioned come out that he was gay. And the moment that my mom said that, my dad was like, well, we don't talk about bags. And so it was very, you know, again, growing up in the South, a lot of those like derogatory terms are kind of normalized. And immediately I knew what that meant.

So then I just knew like we don't talk about it. Yeah. And you were how old at this point? I was probably like eight or nine. Okay. So you're still really young. It was like the early 2000s when when everything was kind of happening. And so then as I progressed, you know, I didn't really explore those feelings until like late in high school and even after high school.

But it was something I knew regardless that I wasn't supposed to talk about. And even growing up, you know, I started like going on the internet because I, that was when like iPod touches had just come out. Oh, yeah. We must be about the same age because I remember in all this. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like we my mom got me an iPod touch and then that kind of like opened me up like I could go on Safari and like go on the internet and look at different things. So I started just like typing. I just started Googling things like because I wasn't fully sure like what another guy looked like or what another, you know, what that even like intended like looked like.

So I just started like searching things up and trying to figure out kind of. do my own exploration to kind of why I was feeling this way and that kind of thing. And I remember like staying up super late at night or, you know, going to bed and then getting up and we had a TV downstairs. And so I would go downstairs and watch TV and in TV would show like a lot of the more like sketchy TV shows late at night time. So I remember there was like one television show where they featured gay guys and I was like that I kind of like connected to that. I was like that's something that's how I feel like there's other people that feel that way. I'm not the only one.

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first. principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Like, you must have just felt like you really had to hide all of the.

this stuff and everything that you were kind of searching for and curious about. I mean, you probably felt like you really couldn't talk to anyone about it for a really long time. That was probably a horrible feeling. I mean, even going into high school, I didn't even talk about it because I think that I had already suffered so much bullying going into middle school and high school that I was like, if I ever actually came out to get out gay, like it would just get so much worse. You were just just general bullying. I mean, because I, my voice was a lot higher than everybody else's.

And I, my parents were a little bit more wealthier than somebody in our communities. So I always had nicer things. And I always had, I dressed really preppy. And so people would make fun of me the way I dress and the way I talked. And so I, I got like tons of bullying. I got, you know, being called gay, being teased and those kind of things. And so it was already like this direct. thing, you know, especially like middle school teenage boys using different terms and different things like that.

Like it was, I was like, this is such a terrible negative thing. Like, why would anybody ever want to come out as gay? Yeah. And, you know, moving into high school, I did kind of dabble in homosexuality. I did like, I started. There is one particular guy that really just wanted, I don't know, he just wanted. to make out of me or whatever the situation was. So that was really kind of like when I started kind of exploring and it got really scary.

And I was like, no. And I went all. I just turned around and went back. And I remember what do you mean by that? Like, expound on that a little bit more. It was scary and you turned around and went back. What do you mean by that? Because like I got scared in the sense of, you know, I had.

I started like messing around with the guy and then he started talking about you know because he was he was out people knew that he was gay and then um he started talking about like coming out like as a couple and stuff like that and I was like I don't want to date you like I was like I don't know about this like yeah and it just it got like a really heavy really fast and yeah the one thing that I've always like said and I always felt is that I the biggest thing is that I was scared to come out because I didn't want to I didn't want to like embarrass my parents because again my parents are really like in the higher in the community and everybody knew then um my mom was the PTA president mom you know and so I really didn't want to like bring any kind of um frustration or like

embarrassment to them um and at the same time you know I always felt I guess you could say I always felt weird about like being gay about like accepting the lifestyle and that kind of thing because again like we grew up in church and and I knew it was for whatever reason it was wrong I didn't know why but I knew it was wrong and so I was kind of like you know I I knew that I wouldn't get like acceptance out of it or I wouldn't like people wouldn't be happy with me so I was worried and I also grew up having this like perfectionist mindset and this kind of of I'm never going to be enough mindset as well. So all of those combined, it really like, it shut me up.

I felt like there was never really a space for me to like come out and be, hey, I'm gay and this kind of thing. Yeah. And so it really took me until after high school to even start accepting this lifestyle and really getting into it. So you, you did play and the term blad, or is it turned black? Yeah.

And hairspray in high school, right? And so, and that's been traditionally like played by a male. I don't know if it's technically called drag. But I think in your book you do talk about like that is kind of when you started experimenting with drag. So like dressing up like a woman. So tell me a little bit about that. Yeah. So that was, of course, I was a theater kid.

And of course, homosexuality was a lot more like open in the theater community. Was it in and outside? of school that you were? I did. I was in theater outside of school once I graduated high school, but I was in theater. I was like just a, and once I was in high school, I was just a theater kid all around. But I had been working so hard. I was actually like the theater president. And I wanted to like live a legacy on my theater. You know, I had been in theater for so long. and you know you just you want to make people remember you so I had auditioned for the part

when I found out we were doing hair spray I was like I'm going to be the mom like this can be it like that's that's what I'm going to do yeah and I literally auditioned in heels I did um a female song for my audition um kind of like a drag song almost and I I got the part and then come the actual production. I started, you know, I actually went to another drag queen to help me do my makeup. Because at that point, I really wasn't fully like in to know how to do my own makeup. And so he did my makeup for me. And then I would show up to the rehearsals and then I showed to the actual production.

And people just gave me so much praise. It was like instant gratification, all of this amazing feeling. Because again, like I grew up bullied. I grew up feeling like I wasn't enough. And just always trying to measure up, I guess. Always trying to make people proud of me, make people feel like I actually belonged there. And so when I got all this gratification and I got all of this, like,

oh my gosh, you did so good. comments from parents saying like I literally thought that that was like a 40 year old woman like I had no idea I thought they hired somebody I mean I got tons of amazing comments and what did your parents think um so that was kind of like I told my mom right off the bat like I was like I just so you know like I'm auditioning for this part because they want a boy and I want to do it like I and I just kind of like told my mom like I think it would be funny and I think it would be so fun and blah blah and I just kind of like played it off like I downplayed it a little bit so that way like I wouldn't feel like it was like such a big deal but and your dad is just kind of like you said kind of distracted with work yeah yeah I told my dad I had I told my dad I was like somebody casted me as a mom and I'm like gonna have to be this like big fat lady basically and he just kind of thought it was funny you know like whatever and yeah I remember like some of I the family members came and saw the show and they all thought it was hilarious that I was like this whole like 300 pound woman.

Yeah. And so I just kind of like played it off to kind of like let people, you know, kind of think it really wasn't that big deal. And then that way I could kind of like see how it goes later. But when I got all that gratification, I was like, man, this was, this felt good. Like I finally was, I did something that people were proud of me of. And I just kind of like kept, I held on to that feeling. I held on to that feeling because after I graduated, I was just kind of trying to figure out what I wanted who I was.

I got heavy into drugs and alcohol and even in the midst of everything else. I started doing cocaine. And I was just trying to fit in. And at this point, I was trying to find friends again. I was trying to get into a new friend group. And the friend group I got connected with was like having into drugs, having into drinking every night. And so that's what I did. I wanted to keep friends.

And I wanted to keep people close. And I wanted to feel like I had somebody and I was close to somebody. So that was kind of like what I had started doing. And then I was on off with Mike's boyfriend. And at this point, I had finally said yes and we started dating and we'd break up and then it was like back and forth. I didn't want to come out as gay. I didn't want to like come out the closet and he wanted to be a lot more like vocal about a relationship and he wanted people to know and those kind of things. And I was just not ready.

And I had gotten into an argument my brother and I knew and I told him that I was I was gay and then I was going to be a little. brookish Christian. And I told him that about my boyfriend and that kind of thing. And then it was just not like the, the reaction was just a no-go. So I was like, there's no way I'm going to be able to come out. There's just no way. Yeah. You were kind of testing it with him.

Yeah. Because I knew he wasn't going to tell my parents. And I knew like they wouldn't say anything. So I was kind of like, I'm going to see. And so I ended up, I, me and my ex-boyfriend broke up. And that's kind of when everything went crazy. I just was like I was brokenhearted and I didn't know what to do.

And I was trying to fill this void in my heart that I had had for such a long time. And I think that's what a lot of people struggle with. Honestly, I know that there's not everybody's cases that they're not close to their dad or they don't have a male figure in their life. And I know some people do. and they're like, well, what about me? But I think a lot of people that struggle with not having like a really good male figure and even struggle with not having a dad just or not being close to your dad, you know, whatever it looks like. I think that more times than none, people just feel like they want attention from a man.

And that's like psychologically, like we're supposed to be, you know, close to our dads. We're supposed to be close to a guy as a man to show us, to teach us to, like, raise us up as a guy. And so ultimately, that's what I was craving. I was craving, like, attention from a dude. And I was looking for it in all the wrong places. Yeah. And so I started being super promiscuous and going on hookup apps and just trying to, like, find somebody. and I was like the pathetic one that after like he hooked up with somebody and that he'd like I was like I think I'm in love with them.

Yeah. And I'd known them for like all of 10 minutes. So this is after this is after high school. And so you're kind of as you said, you're promiscuous. You're into drugs. You're into alcohol. You're still trying to find friends. You're not in college, right?

Right. You're just working. I took a year off before I actually started college. And you were performing. as a drag artist, right? Yeah, so this is kind of where that pulled in. So I really started being permissuous. And then I really wasn't giving me all the validation that I wanted.

You know, I wasn't in a relationship still. I was just like going from hookup to hookup. And I wasn't fully, you know, fully satisfied, I guess. You know, it wasn't what I wanted. And so I remember I was sitting with some friends at a local, like, spot and I was I was like man what if I what if I was a drag queen and they were like you should totally do it and I was like I'm thinking about it instead of then I had reached out to another drag queen that I knew who was local that grew up in a separate high school for me and then I

started like looking at and I just started asking questions and then I started looking at videos And after I kind of started talking about it, I was like, you know what? This is what I'm going to do. And I had the thought. And I was like, yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to do this. I just don't know how to like get started. And I started watching like makeup tutorials, watching different people do makeup. I started watching like RuPaul's Drag Race, like makeup tutorials and those kind of things.

So I can figure out how to successfully do drag makeup. and then one day I got a call from a theater mom that I had known from high school I was friends with her daughter and she was like hey I know this is super random but we are doing this huge charity for this event and essentially every company that's a part of this event for the charity needs a drag queen to perform in a show and then like during the show people will donate to the drag queen depending on how the performance was. And so I was like, okay, cool. I was like, I'm down.

She was like, I just couldn't think of anything, anybody else. And I was like, okay, cool, I'll do it. And so I went home. I got what was left of my costume from like six months ago when I was at NAA. and I still have my dance tights, I still have my heels, and I still had different things. So I was like, I'll use all this. And then I had my mom take me, because I told my mom what I was doing. She was like, okay, whatever, like, I guess.

And I had my mom take me to a local, like, drugstore, like grocery store, and I bought a bunch of makeup. And then I went back home, did all my makeup, put my wig on. had got ready and then i think that was really like when she was born because my the lady as in your drag character correct so um i went to the drag show and she was like hey we need a name um what do you want to name your character because i need to put when they announce you and i was like call me velma and that was like the only thing that i could think of and I had always like kind of been obsessed with the 50s and 60s. And so I started like molding my drag persona around this like 1950s,

1960s like house life type look. And in hairspray, I played this like 300, 400 pound woman. So in this one, I was still big, but I was like, I tried to make myself curvy and different look. And I made myself blonde. And I wanted to look a certain way. and then I performed and I brought in quite a bit of cash

and then I was like, man, like that felt good again. Like that was that feeling and it was like brought all the feelings back from when I was in high school and I played that drag character. I was like, this is what I want to do. And so immediately I started like buying new wigs. I started buying outfits. I would go to like T.J. Max and Marshalls because they have like ridiculously sized shoes.

and larger sized dresses. And so I would start buying what I could afford. And I even started like selling drugs on the side to kind of pay for different things. And then that's when I started doing it, like really getting into drag. I was starting to like show up at bars and show up at different places. Mind you at this time, I'm like 18, 19 years old. And I'm really not even old enough to be in these bars. I'm not old enough to be in these places.

And but I showed up in drag, so no one really questioned me. No one really knew my age or, like, expected to card me. And that's how I really started getting in. I started, like, doing performances. I started, like, doing, like, little things here and there, little cabarets. If I could pop in because no one really knew my name. And it was, it's hard to get booked if people don't know who you are. You don't have connections.

and so I showed up and I would just show up in drag they wouldn't really question me and then I would perform and then I would leave And I remember like going out late at night I like up until like two o'clock in the morning you know it would stick out of my parents house Put on my drag persona and then and then go And then come back about three four o'clock in the morning before my parents woke up for work and stuff so it was like a constant like hiding everything constantly trying to just you know keep everything low key you're in the midst of all of this i guess your parents kind of know okay i guess this is what's going on and you get hired at a theme park in orlando right to be a character there and that's when your mom is like why don't

you try out this ministry before you go in alabama and is that kind of when things started shifting in a different direction? So I did. I auditioned and I had gotten a role at a at a theme park in Orlando. And I was kind of like, that was really excited because I had gotten to a point where I had almost overdosed on cocaine. At this point, I kind of stopped doing drag so much because it really wasn't an encounter with Jesus quite yet, but it was, it was this thing. Like I was just like, I don't like this. Like I don't like that I have to put on all of this stuff to get accepted. Like I, why can't people just accept Blake?

Like, why can't they just accept me for who I am? Like, I just don't understand. And so I kind of, like, put the whole, like, drag queen thing on a back burner. I really wasn't doing very much because I was tired of having to do all this stuff to, like, impress people and get people's attention. And people, like, actually accept me instead of accepting. this persona. And so that's why I had auditioned for this particular role because I was like, I'll get

into a new city where no one knows me and I can kind of start fresh. And I can get away from the drugs and I can get away from like just all of this insanity that I've gotten myself in and maybe I can kind of like live a quieter life and I can just find a boyfriend and we can settle down and it can be like, you know, a lot chiller. And I was, I just found out that I got in the part. And then I was like, you know, I think I want to go back to college because I had originally done a whole semester at a local college to become a theater teacher at high school level. And so that's what I was like, I still want to do that. And so while I was going to be in Orlando, I wanted to go to college to become a theater teacher.

my mom suggested well why don't you go to the ram school of ministry and i was like that's in bum freak america like that's not in orlando that's in somewhere in alabama like that's not part of the plan like i literally just got this part like and i was like fit i i thought that like 15 an hour was like a big deal like i was like i'm making 15 dollars an hour like that's a lot of money. And so I was like, this is not what I want to do. Like, I don't want to go to some ministry school. Like, that's crazy.

And so I was like, well, I don't even think I'm going to be able to get in. Like, we were already into August. We were two weeks before school started. And I was like, there's just no way. Like, there's no way. And so I went ahead and applied. And part of the application, you have to, like, write in your test. And I was like, okay, well, there's no way and no way.

I'm going to like the things that I've gone through. So I was just like, yeah, like I smoked weed like a couple of times and I drank a couple times. But now Jesus fixed me. And I just like kind of like wrote something like that on the application. And so then I ended up applying. And then like two days later I get a call from the head of admissions. And she was like, well, we accepted you and this is what you need and you know you've got to find housing.

And I was like, okay, what? And my mom was like, okay, well, let's like see what it's going to take the movie in Hamilton, Alabama. I began to kind of look into the school and they're a non-denominational, but they're very just like out there. and crazy Christians. And I was like watching some of their services. And I was like, I was like, the pastor yells too much. I don't need someone yelling at me. And then I found out that we had morning prayer at 8 a.m. every day.

And I was like, I don't need someone to tell me when to pray. I can pray whenever I feel like it. That's dumb. And I was just trying to find every reason not to go to this place. And so I had a cousin who was going to the school. And little did I know like the previous year. during her first year of this ministry school. She was in morning prayer and this guy that doesn't really know any of us very well,

he came up to us. He was one of her classmates and he was like, hey, like, I heard this in prayer this morning. And I don't know what it means, but I just felt like the Lord wanted me to share with you that I heard the name Blake. And I heard the phrase, Blake is coming home. and mind you this is like a year this is like this happened a year before i even applied for the ministry school this happened in the like in the middle of all of my mess in the middle of me getting into drag me like sleeping with tons of guys me like doing all these kinds of crazy things that was what the lord was already speaking over me and so then fast forward the year later when i i actually

showed up in hamilton alabama i got accepted we got there like a couple days early so that way i kind of hang out with my cousin and kind of get to know the town and get to know her friends and see where everything was at. And we went to like just the Wednesday night service. It was just like a basic Wednesday night service. And there really wasn't a lot of students there yet. And so it was kind of like a smaller service. And I went up there and of course I grew up in church. So I knew like how to worship. You know, I knew what to make it look like. And so. So then like everybody started like jumping and dancing when the worship leader started. And I was like, okay, guess this is what we're doing.

So then I started jumping and I started following along with everybody. And then the worship leader stopped and she was like, before I go into this bridge, I just, I feel like the Lord wants me to say this that there are people in this room that the fact that you have said yes to going into the school or just saying yes and being here today, the moving here to Hamilton, Alabama, your yes is literally setting you up for a destiny that you never could have imagined yourself. It's like if you could just pull back the curtain and just take a peek at what God has in store for you, you would be in awe and wonder.

And just the fact that you said yes, you are literally setting yourself up for a destiny that is literally just something so much more than you can ever imagine. And I had no idea what any of that meant. And I was just kind of like, okay, cool. And so then we finished kind of like the fast songs, and then they started going into the slow songs. And in the moment, I just felt this presence into the room that I had never felt before. It was like while I was worshiping and while I was like, we were dancing.

and just like jumping and everything. Like I was probably, I was following along with everybody, but at the same time, like I started, I actually started feeling happy. Like, I started feeling joy because I had struggled with suicidal thoughts.

I had struggled with attempts. I had struggled with anxiety. I had struggled with all this darkness. I had struggled with loneliness and not feeling like there's enough. Like I had been through so much at this point that it was like when I felt this happiness and this joy. just come over me. I was like, what is this? Like, I've never experienced this in church. And so then when it came to like kind of that more intimate moment in worship, I just felt this presence

into the room that was just so tangible. Like I never felt the presence of God like that before. And in a moment, I just felt like I could just let everything go. I could just give him everything. And And it was just like, I didn't have to carry it anymore. I just felt like, I felt free. And so I let go with the drugs. I let go of the alcohol. I let go of all the craziness. But the one thing that I held on to was my same sex attraction.

Like, I was like, okay, cool. Like, I got rid of all the bad stuff in my life. And now I can be gay and Christian and it'd be great. And that's when I tell people like, going on a journey like this, like it is not just going to be a one alter call type of moment. Like I've talked to people that have gone to like they're like, I've gone to hundreds of calls and it's just, God hasn't taken this sexual desire away or like, you know, it's not going to just happen in a moment.

You know, it just doesn't happen. And in no way am I doubting the power of God. I believe that there are probably some people out there that have that story. But for me, it didn't happen that way. And so walking away from this amazing encounter. this amazing moment. I was like boohooing. I felt the presence of the Lord. I was like confused, but also I felt so free and I felt so like just, just fresh. Like it was like the Lord just completely made me new. Like it was like the real feeling of that that statement. I was still like,

okay, I'm going to be getting Christian. And so I was like, okay, like I guess I'm just going to like do this. And I started trying to like live. my life as a Christian and it became very hard but at the same time like the Lord had so much grace for me I I was very like I was easy for me to pick up in in because they have such a prophetic culture there like I was able to like use the gifts of the spirit I had gotten baptized in the Holy Spirit in when I was 12 so like that was something that I had always known but again like it was never anything that I always used and the Bible's very clear about you can totally use your his gifts and without really knowing Jesus um because people come people come with me all the

time they're like oh well if you were Christian if you weren't Christian then how did you get baptized in the Holy Spirit and I was like so you have kind of like a charismatic background right um we weren't Pentecostal but it was like non-denominational whatever and this place that you went to in Hamilton was also Pentecostal charismatic correct Okay, gotcha. And so I was just kind of like able to just jump in. The Lord was speaking to me. I was hearing his voice.

I was like there would be times where like my roommates were like watching porn or doing whatever they were doing and we'd be like just casually in the house and I would look over and I'm like, you're in sin right now. Like I can tell like you've been watching porn having you and they would be like, how freaking crap do you know that? Like, what the heck? And I knew that the Lord was speaking to me, and I was able to do all these cool things. And then that kind of validated in me, like, see, you can be in getting Christian.

Like, I'm hearing all these prophetic words. I'm hearing all this stuff. And the Lord's still moving to me. The Lord's using me. So why can't you be gay Christian? Because I'm definitely still attracted to guys. And I was in prayer, and I started really getting into my daily, just like, getting the word and having my quiet time with the Lord. And I remember coming across a scripture

in class that I was like, I need to go back and find that because that was kind of a scary scripture. And when I went back, I read it and it said that there will be a day when men come to me and say, Lord, Lord, we have cast out demons in your name. We've prophesied in your name. We've done all these things in your name. And he's going to say, get away from me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you. And I, that just, it just stuck this fear of the Lord in me and not like, I'm scared of God. It's this like holy fear of just like, it's a reverence of who God is. And the fact that people could be like, you know, ministering or work in the prophetic gifts or whatever it is. and never know the actual nature of who Jesus is and never really know who he is.

And so it was just like mind-boggling. Like I was like, man, maybe I've been doing this whole thing without you, Father. Like, maybe I've been doing this whole thing without you, Jesus. Like, what do I do? And so I just kind of pondered on that for a while because I was like, I don't know what else to do now. Like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do. like I still like guys, but I can hear the Lord. So what do you want to do in me, Lord?

And come December of my first year of ministry school, I was serving at a conference. And it was like one of their largest conferences of the year. And I remember I was walking some guests to their seats. And I heard the pastor start speaking about homosexuality. And honest, I can't even tell you what he was talking. about. I just remember he said something. And then whatever he said, I remember I was like, okay, Lord. And then I was like, okay, Lord, like if you really want this, if you are really who you say you are and you're everything you are, like everything that people are telling me

you are and everything that your word says you are, then I'm going to try it out. I'm going to give up the guys. I'm going to give up everything. I'm just going to give it all up. and if I hate this life as a Christian I'm going to go back like mark my words and so then I just I dove in I started like being open I started being open about like my my struggle with homosexuality I got connected with a leader that was able to really like just talk and be honest with me and I was able to go and sit in his office and be like I'm struggling with homosexuality and I don't know what to do.

And I think these guys are attractive. Like, what should I do? And he was, like, willing to, like, look past that and look past, like, everything that I was doing or everything that I, you know, felt. And just, like, grab me by the arm and, like, let's go. Like, we're going to get through this together. And I think that's super important for anyone

who is trying to come out of the homosexual community. struggling with homosexuality and struggling with unwanted same-sex attraction, it's super important for you to get a man or woman of God that is willing to look past who you've been and what you've done, what you've done and look past like your struggles and just be like, let's get through this together. Because I wouldn't have been able to like be where I'm at today without some of the guys that were in my life. I think the best thing that I ever heard was you're not alone.

And no matter what you say in this office is going to change the way I think about you. Yeah. And when my leader at the time said that, I just, I felt this pressure come off of me because I was like, if God really wants this lifestyle to be taken away, if he really doesn't want me to have this feeling, then he's going to do it. Like, but I have to be open and honest about it and I had to talk about it. And it was probably a year after I got saved that I even told people I was a drag queen because I was like, man, I just got over this big old hump of I used to be gay and there's no way they're going to handle them. I used to be a drag queen too.

So, but it really took like pairing up with people and like being open and honest about like where you're at and what's happening. And I remember there was a point where I just got so frustrated and so like I was so mad at the Lord and I was just confused. And I was like, God, like, why am I still struggling with this? What is going on? And I remember him saying very clear to me, and this is not a gay to straight transition. This is from broken to whole. And if you, like, you've been chasing straightness and not wholeness. and that just completely broke everything in me because I realized that God is not going to take

one less pattern and replace it with another one. That's not who he is. He's not going to take one sin away just to replace it with a new sin. And I think that that is something so important to understand and really like mull over because I've met so many people that are just chasing being straight. and not chasing being whole in who God is and who their identity is in Jesus. And so realistically, that is like that is the way to get free. Yeah.

The way to like really step into deliverance and step into your wholeness is not allowing that brokenness to like hold you back and step into wholeness. Because when you step into wholeness, then you're who God's called you to be. and it doesn't matter about gay, straight, whatever. It's like, that's just a technical term that men have come up with. It's really stepping into wholeness. And then all these things that you've been struggling with, all the things that you weren't insecure about start to melt away. So I know everyone's wondering, like, how you met your wife and, like, how you became a pastor.

So, like, tell us, tell us about that. Yeah, so I was a second. year in ministry school. And so we were, some of the students were hanging out downtown. And then this girl was like, hey, I need you to, what is one of my friends? And she was like, I need to meet this girl. She is like so cool. And she loves sign language and she wants to be an interpreter and all this craziness. And we kind of became best friends. We realized that we really did both have the almost the exact same testimony. But we realized that we both had struggled with drugs and alcohol and homosexuality and everything. So we just became best friends. And I kind of liked her,

I guess, but I wasn't sure. And I remember we were still friends. And there was one night that we ended up having to drive back just the two of us. And so we were driving back home from work. And I was like, let's put on some worship music. And I was like, let's just pray and see what the Lord is saying. Like, let's just see, you know, like just some worship. And so I turned on music and we were just worshipping and and then maybe like 10 or 15 minutes in, we were just feeling the presence of the Lord and I kind of like looked over and she was just like lost in the presence of the Lord and I was just kind of like, man, I could do this with her forever. And immediately I kind of like mentally like stepped away from the whole atmosphere that

was happening in the car and I was like, do I like a girl right now? like do I like a girl? Like is that real life? Like is this happening right now? So I kind of was like freaking out because I was like, I never liked a girl before. And so then we started dating and then it literally just, it just made sense.

I mean, we were both running at such the same pace. And when I was a youth pastor, I would tell my teenagers all the time, like find someone that is running after God just as fast as you are in the same direction and then it will just make sense to run together. And so that's what it really was. It just made sense to run together.

And the Lord just gave both of us this love and just respect for one another. And honestly, I wouldn't be able to do life without her. You know, it's just been an incredible journey with her. Yeah. And so now you're a pastor. And San Antonio, and y'all have. And her dad is the head pastor at the church that we are pastors at.

And they were looking for youth pastors at the time. And I was like, we are not in San Antonio, Texas. Like, bah, we are not doing that. And he wanted us to be youth pastor so bad. And I first met her dad. He was not a fan of me. And he was not interested in me dating his daughter. and eventually we came around to each other.

We now were like, he calls me more than he calls her. But we got married and then we ended up deciding to, we felt the Lord just called us to send to your Texas for whatever reason. And we moved down here and became youth pastors. And then just last year we transitioned out of being youth pastors into associate pastors. and we're the admins here. But just literally, just honestly being faithful to the Lord, I think that that where we're out now is really out of just submitting to what God has for us

and just saying yes and going on this adventure with him and just allowing all, putting all of our trust, all of our eggs in one basket, if you will, and just like letting the Lord just like take us there. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much for for sharing your story. And there's so many other things that I could ask, which you've given so many people, I think, so many things to consider. Not just for their own lives and their own struggles, though maybe so, but also just for people and their lives. A lot of people don't know how to address those who identify as LGBTQ because it's scary and we're told we're bigots and we shouldn't reach out to them. We shouldn't evangelize. And so I think just hearing your story kind of, breaks down a lot of barriers for a lot of people. Just one final thing. Like, what is your recommendation for someone who's like, okay, I know someone who's a drag queen or who is gay or whatever?

And I want to love them and I want to lead them to Christ, but I don't know what to say or do. What is your just one recommendation as someone who has been there? There's a couple of things that I will say as an ex-LGB community member and then also as now a porn again Christian. The first piece of advice I'll give you is, and this is kind of a hard one, do not, do not use the pronouns that they have asked you to use and don't use the names that they have asked you to use. And the reason I say that is because literally, I, people come up me and they try to argue

with me that they're like, why would I disrespect someone if I'm trying to like minister to them? But I'm like, the thing is, is when you do. that. You are literally partnering with a false identity or a demonic identity that they've created, the world has given them. And it is not who God has called them to be. And there are plenty of ways to respectfully be like, you know, I love you and I care about you, but this is what I'm going to call you. If you feel like you have to avoid like using their name or their programs, go for it. Like it's not hard. But, um, the.

reality is, is you, by accepting their names, by accepting the pronouns, you're, you are partnering with that false identity. I've, I remember there's a story of someone that I need, I, I, I'd heard about. And they were, their mom was a Christian. She, she was a lesbian. The daughter was a lesbian. She bought her partner over to her mom's house all the, all the time. And the, the, the daughter ended up getting saved and set free and got out of their relationship and she the one thing she said was my mom never wavered on what god's word was she never like she would always address my partner as my friend she would always like say her she'd never used our pronouns or like my partner's name or whatever because it was like if you're going to come into my house you're going to respect my rules like you know

that was the kind of thing and she was like honestly if my mom had not done that like i i don't know what i would have because it's like really just giving them validation into this false identity. Yeah. And then with two. Okay. So speak truth. Don't compromise on the truth just because you think it's going to be nicer. Exactly.

And then the second one. But then on the other side is leave open communication with them. Like I feel like the one thing that I did was I tried to block out tons of people because I wanted to, I didn't want to hear their opinions. I didn't want to hear them like tell me I was wrong and that kind of thing. So I started just blocking people and that even like was part of my family. I kept certain things away from them. I didn't tell them certain things.

And I wasn't fully honest with them because I knew that they were going to have something to say about it. And the one thing that I would say to do is keep an open communication with them. them like let them know that that door is always open that you are here for them no matter what and nothing that they tell you is ever going to change the way you look at them because that is so important and i think when that open communication that real love gets partnered with the truth it is literally just it is the perfect the perfect recipe of just being someone who stands for god's word and also being this loving person is literally like the idea of who God's really called all of us to be no matter what. Wow. Well, thank you so much, Blake. And, you know, I'm not charismatic

myself. And so there are some, you know, theological differences. I'm sure that we have. But what I appreciate is that we agree on the transformative and redemptive work of Christ. And I just love hearing, I never tire of hearing people's testimonies because they're so powerful. So thank you for just being willing to share. I know this is going to impact a lot of people. And people can get your book from mascara to manhood. I'm guessing wherever books are sold, right? On Amazon. Okay, well, we'll link it in the description of this episode. Thank you so much, Blake, for taking the time to talk to us. I really appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues

facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are

or where we're headed, you can watch the Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Thank you.