Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 765 | Can Women Be Pastors? SBC vs. Saddleback | Q&A

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Answering all of your questions today, one of which is my response to the Southern Baptist Convention kicking out a church in California for hiring a female pastor. We also talk about homebirth, about justification, if that is an important. important part of the gospel. I of course believe that it is how to share the gospel with your non-Christian friends and then also a lot of fun questions as well. This episode is brought to you by

Starting point is 00:01:08 our friends at Good Rangers, go to good Rangers.com. Use promo code to Allie at checkout. Goodranters.com. Code Allie. Hey guys. Welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. What did you think about the interviews at the end of last week? Governor DeStantis, also Leahyne Jameson what a lovely person right go back and listen to those interviews if you haven't already on Wednesday and Thursday all right today we're doing a Q&A as you are listening to this I am traveling home from California and so we're doing something a little bit different I'm pre-recording this the week prior and I'm answering some questions that you guys sent me on Instagram some serious questions some more lighthearted questions but I always enjoy this

Starting point is 00:02:03 So thanks for sending your questions. And we will go through some of them. Sorry, you can't get to all of them. But a lot of them were really good. So let's see. These are so, you know, they're so diverse because it's not all about politics and culture, but I enjoy talking about a lot of these things that I don't typically get to discuss because they don't, they're not in the news or, you know, circulating on social media.

Starting point is 00:02:29 So this, someone asked me, my thoughts on homebirths. I'm very pro homebirth. I've never had a home birth before I wish I had had a home birth. Like in my head, I am pro home birth. I do have, I think I would have fears for myself surrounding homebirth. And I know I'm going to get messages saying, oh, you shouldn't have any fear. Don't act at a fear. I totally understand. I'm just being honest with you. And I follow a lot of home birth accounts. Like I think natural birth is awesome. And I've learned a lot about birth. I love talking about birth. I love hearing birth stories. Truly love it. I like talking about my births, even though they didn't go the way that I wanted them to. But I truly believe a woman is created to give birth, can give birth. I think there

Starting point is 00:03:13 are benefits to different kinds of births. I know people, women give birth in birth centers. Some women love giving birth in a hospital. I haven't had great experiences with my hospital births. The second one much better than the first. The second one wasn't really, it wasn't the fault of my providers. It's just the hospital environment can be, can be a tough place to have a child because they are constantly bothering you with questions and coming in and checking on you. It's just not a very relaxing environment. I think that there are probably exceptions to that rule. But also a lot of times you can feel pressured to do things that you don't want to do or don't need to do. There's a lot of freedom when it comes to home birth. I think there is a shift in mentality when it comes to home birth too.

Starting point is 00:03:56 I think just a few years ago, a lot of people thought that the only people that gave birth at home were hippies and were weirdos and like anti-medical intervention and they've only heard these horror stories about it. But really, like I think that this is becoming more and more common and more and more acceptable. Obviously, there are things to consider with every birth and every woman, every pregnancy, different people have different cautions and concerns. and different things to consider. But in general, sure, I'm very pro-home birth. I think it's awesome. Let's see. Next question.

Starting point is 00:04:40 How to share the gospel with our liberal friends. I know the comment that I'm going to get, someone's going to say, you know, you can be liberal and a Christian. And what I would say to that, of course, is not that our political positions are requirements. for or are not, they're not qualifications for our Christianity or for our salvation. Certainly being a Republican doesn't save you, being a Democrat doesn't save you. It also doesn't exclude you from heaven. We just don't read that in scripture.

Starting point is 00:05:09 However, when you're looking at the different positions of left and right, when it comes to morality, when it comes to abortion, when it comes to gender, when it comes to sexuality, when it comes to marriage, even when it comes to things like protecting a country's sovereignty, even when it comes to economic, socialism versus capitalism, I think there's a lot of nuance with those last two and there's a lot of disagreements. I think in good faith that the left and the right Christians and Christians on the left and the right can have. But when it comes to those major moral issues that Genesis 1 is really, really clear on when it comes to abortion, the legality of abortion, when it comes to being made male and female, when it comes to the definition of marriage and what a family is,

Starting point is 00:05:52 and really who the authority is, are we created by God who has endowed us with certain inalienable rights or are we the highest supreme power? That's a difference today between the modern left and right and America. If you hold to left-wing values today when it comes to abortion and when it comes to marriage and gender and those issues that again are outlined in Genesis 1, I can't say that you are not saved. I can't say that you're not a Christian, but I do believe that God will sanctify you to conform to his will, which is clear in Scripture. And those aren't primarily conservative positions. Those are primarily biblical positions that today are considered conservative.

Starting point is 00:06:31 So I just wanted to go ahead and answer that question or that respond to that comment that I know that I'm going to get when this person asks, how do I share the gospel with my liberal friends? Because chances are you should be. And I would say that it typically starts with conversations. and it typically starts with asking questions, especially if you already have a preexisting relationship there. I do think absolutely you can just share the gospel with them.

Starting point is 00:06:59 You can say, look, do you understand the two are a sinner that is separated from God? If this person doesn't know the gospel and truly is an unbeliever, like, do you know, like the state of your heart, the state of eternity, do you know where you're going to go when you die? Like, let me tell you about freedom from sin, not just an eternity, but here today. let me tell you about a God who love the world so much that he sent Jesus Christ his only son to redeem us from our sin, to reconcile us to God so that we're no longer strangers and aliens and enemies of God, but we can be friends with God, we can be counted as sons and daughters of God, we can have a relationship with him, be free from our sin, forgiven forever, and spend our

Starting point is 00:07:40 entire eternity in liberated joy with him. So you can absolutely just do that. But I also also think asking questions is really good. Not every conversation has to be a let me share the gospel conversation, although you can't go wrong with that. But I do think letting them think through things, asking them questions about do they believe right and wrong exists? Is there an objective right and wrong? Is there universal morality? Most liberals, most non-Christians would say no, that it's, it depends on the individual, depends on the situation. It depends on the culture. It depends. on the religious beliefs that not everyone has to follow the same moral guide. And I would read mere Christianity on this.

Starting point is 00:08:26 You can poke that a little bit. Really? You don't believe that the Holocaust was universally wrong? Why did we mess with it then? If that was just Hitler's morality, if that was just Germany's morality, like, are you saying that, I don't know, you can name something that a liberal cares about a lot? Are you saying that Russia invading Ukraine wasn't universally wrong? And so you can kind of test them on that.

Starting point is 00:08:49 and C, do you really believe in objective morality? Do you believe that racism is wrong for everyone? No matter what? Like, did you believe that the KKK was wrong? What about slavery? Was that objectively wrong? Usually they will admit, yeah, you believe that those things are objectively wrong. There's not like a cultural relativism or moral relativism argument that most liberals would make

Starting point is 00:09:09 in favor of those things in favor of the morality of those things. And then you just kind of work from there. Okay, if there really is a right and wrong, like you think it would be wrong for me to steal $1,000 from you, which every individual does. Tell me why. Where does that sense of right and wrong come from? And if it's not from the individual, where, who? And so kind of start with just their characteristics as being a person made in the image of God. One of those characteristics is that we have this innate sense of justice that can always be perverted, of course, by worldly ideologies and very often is, but we all feel a sense of being wronged. We can say that we believe that there is no

Starting point is 00:09:50 right and wrong, but we believe that we can be objectively wrong if we are hurt, if we're assaulted, if we're stolen from. Where does that sense of justice? Where does that sense of right and wrong really come from? Everyone is an objectivist when it comes to right and wrong when it comes to having your own rights trampled on. Where does that come from? Why do you believe that there are human rights? Why do you believe that human beings are valuable? Why do you believe that murder is wrong. Why do you believe that rape is wrong? I believe it's because we are created by a God who tells us those things are wrong and eternity has been written on the human heart. So all kinds of creative ways to have those kinds of conversations. I know that there are some issues that a lot of us

Starting point is 00:10:29 have with things that Tim Keller has said politically about social justice and things like that, but I love his book, Reason for God. I think it really helps us with apologetics. Again, I love mere Christianity. I think it also helps us with apologetics and having these kinds of conversations. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:11:11 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. What are my thoughts on God's love being called reckless like this song? So I've thought about this a lot. This is not a song that I necessarily promote, but I kind of see both sides of the argument.

Starting point is 00:11:46 On the one hand, from the human perspective, we could see that God's love seems reckless to us. it seems like he is just outpouring love unconditionally, which of course his love for his people, for his children, is unconditional because of Christ, because of what Christ is done for us. And so because Christ is standing in our stead, even when we sin as Christians, God is pouring out his love for us through Christ. And so to us, that, I guess, could seem reckless, like with a reckless abandon. God is pouring out his love on us, that God so loved the world that he gave his only son to die for us, as John 316 says, even as so much of the world rejects him.

Starting point is 00:12:34 And so in that sense, I think that it is probably meant that, wow, God's love is so much, it is so giving, it is so generous. It seems to us like it is not even heating the rejection and the refusal that a lot of people give back. or reciprocate or yeah, just give back to God in return for his love. But looking at the character of God and who God is, God does nothing recklessly. When we think of reckless, it's like you don't consider it. You just do it in a rash way. You do it impulsively. And you don't consider the other side of the calculation. And I actually, so this is really probably the side that I really land, even though I try to see the other side of it, is that God can never be reckless because God knows every.

Starting point is 00:13:22 think. He never does something spontaneously or impulsively or without the knowledge of what is on the other side of it. God, we see throughout scripture, especially, I just see this so much throughout the Old Testament that God is a God of order. He is a God of processes that I don't even think it's necessarily accurate to say he thinks through things. But from our human perspective, that's kind of, that's what it looks like. Like there is a process. There was a process. There was a process to his parting of the Red Sea. There was a process to the Exodus. It didn't just happen. He could have done that. He could have struck down Pharaoh and all of Egypt and he could have just led them to the promised land right away. But instead, he invited these plagues. There was a hardening of Pharaoh's heart.

Starting point is 00:14:08 There was a changing of mind of Pharaoh. And then there was through faith, Moses leading God's people out of Egypt through a parting of the Red Sea. By the way, he didn't even have to do that. And yet he did. and yet God didn't even bring them immediately into the promised land. There were all of these processes through the wilderness in exiting Egypt to give himself glory, probably for the good of the people as well. Everything he does is for his people's good and for his own glory. And he didn't do any of that recklessly. He didn't do any of that without consideration or knowledge of what is on the other side.

Starting point is 00:14:46 So while I understand our human thinking that it's reckless, God does nothing recklessly. God does everything purposely. He does everything with intention. And I think that makes his love actually appear even stronger or we understand that it is even stronger than something that's reckless because knowing full well, knowing and understanding full well what that we would continue to sin even after we understand his love, knowing full well that there would be people who reject him. He still loved the world so much that he did the hardest thing that a father could do. He said his only son to suffer, a death that he did not deserve to die on our behalf. That wasn't reckless. It was big and it was amazing and it was miraculous, but it was intentional and

Starting point is 00:15:36 it was purposeful and it was planned since before the beginning of time. Wow, he loves us so much. That's really good news. That's a really good story. So now as I'm thinking through this, I'm like, wow, that is really a bad song. At first, I was like, I could kind of see both ways. But now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, oh, actually, I think you miss the character of God and the goodness of the gospel. That it's very specific and intentional and purposeful and pre-planned. Okay. Thoughts on SBC's decision to expel Saddleback Church and Stacey Wood's response. All right. So I haven't talked about this yet, actually. Saddleback Church, Rick Rowan's Church out of California, they've been progressive on some issues over the years. And so I'm not really surprised that something like this happened. But here's, so here's what went down. Saddleback Church decided to name a woman, Stacey Wood, a pastor.

Starting point is 00:16:42 And the SBC stance is what I believe to be the biblical stance. And that is that a woman cannot be a pastor and should not be exercising authority in their local church over men. This is 1 Timothy 212. This is Paul writing to Timothy. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man. Rather, she is to remain quiet when it comes to the preaching and the teaching of the word. in the setting of the local church. And of course, when you are preaching the word in church, that is automatically you're exercising authority because the word is authoritative. And this doesn't

Starting point is 00:17:25 mean that women are dumb or women are less than. Like, I think I could give a great sermon. I do. I think if I was able to prepare, I think I could give a great sermon. But that is not what the Lord has called me to do. That doesn't mean, look, here I am, that I am unable to exercise my gifts. This does not mean that I have to be, that I can't be involved in my church. I can teach women and children if I wanted to. That's not something I do within my church. I can have this podcast. There are lots of things that I can do.

Starting point is 00:17:55 I don't see this as something where God is degrading me or thinks that I'm less than or thinks that I'm weak. Look, I know that that's not true. I'm very aware of the weaknesses that God has given me, but I also am aware of the strengths that God has given me, that he has given me the ability to communicate and the ability in a lot of ways, obviously not infallibly, to understand his word and to communicate his word. And I love doing that with you guys. But I don't feel like I'm missing out or jipped in some way because God says, yeah, you can't exercise authority in my church over men because,

Starting point is 00:18:28 and he actually gives the answer right here. It's not cultural. It wasn't restricted to this time. Actually, in verse 13, Paul says to Timothy, for Adam was formed first than Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived. It became a transgressor. Ouch. Yet she will be saved through childbearing. There's a lot of debate about what that means. We don't have time for that right now. But so the reason that he gets is actually a creation reason. So that means that there are implications, not just for this particular time and culture,

Starting point is 00:18:59 but since he goes all the way back to Genesis 1 through 3, we can just assume that that still applies today. And so that's the SBC stance. That's not every denomination stance. There's disagreements. on that whether a woman can, you know, preach on Sunday but not be a pastor, but they decided to make Stacey Wood a pastor. And so Stacey Wood's response to all of this. And this was written up by the Guardian. The Southern Baptist Convention has expelled Saddleback Church, one of its largest congregations, due to its appointment of a female pastor.

Starting point is 00:19:37 On Tuesday, the SBCA Executive Committee approved a recommendation from its credentials. committee that the California-based megachurch be labeled as not in friendly cooperation with the convention. Saddleback Church has a faith in practice that does not closely identify with the conventions adopt the statement of faith as demonstrated by the church having a female teaching pastor functioning in the office of pastor. The pastor in question is Stacey Wood, the wife of Andy Wood, who leads to the church as pastor. Saddleback was founded in the 1980s by Rick Warren. And then according to SBC statement, they say, while both men and women are given, for service in the church, the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by scripture.

Starting point is 00:20:19 And saddleback in response to its oustine says, we love and have always valued our relationship with the SBC and its faithful churches. We will engage and respond through the proper channels at their appropriate time in hopes to serve other like-minded Bible believing SBC churches. Meanwhile, we remain focused on following God's leadership to love and serve our church family and communities around our campuses. And so they didn't seem to respond to any of the legitimate and in good faith critiques that Baptist had within the convention saying, you know what, what do you take from this scripture? What do you take from First Timothy in the different examples in the New Testament that says, of course, women are dignified. Of course they are talented. Of course they have many spiritual gifts. But because of the creation order, because of the creation order, which has not changed since Genesis 1, women are not.

Starting point is 00:21:12 to exercise authority in the church over men in the preaching and the teaching of the word. It's pretty specific. It's pretty clear. And yet they're going against this. And I think the SBC is right for taking it stand. You don't have to agree with that. You don't have to be a part of the SBC. But I think the SBC drawing a line in the sand saying, you know what, we're not, we're not going to cross this.

Starting point is 00:21:33 I think is good. So that's basically my response to all of that. Someone asked, so does blaze your hair and makeup? Makeup, yes, hair no, as you can probably tell. Most days, I just put it back. I try to make it nice and straight some days, but I just, I just don't have time. I don't have time. How do you honor your parents biblically when they actively hurt you?

Starting point is 00:22:11 So I don't know what kind of hurt you're talking about. Obviously, if you're talking about physical hurt, I want you to be safe. and it is not disrespecting your parents for you to find refuge. If you're even talking about emotional abuse, like I want you to go to your local church and I want you to seek help. If you need help, find a church, founders.org slash church dash search. And I encourage you to get help. Now, if you're just talking about, you know, you felt the feeling of betrayal or rejection

Starting point is 00:22:40 from them, maybe in the past, they emotionally hurt you or you just don't feel like they, love you well and you don't feel like you are in imminent danger, you can still respect them by being just kind to them and praying for them and loving them in that way. But look, I'm not someone who says, you know what, you just need to immediately cut all of the inconvenient people out of your life, all of the quote unquote toxic people out of your life. But it depends on what you mean by toxic. Like if these are people who are constantly maligning you or making fun of you because of your faith or constantly tempting you to sin or just degrading to you, then I do think it can be healthy to draw a boundary there and say, I'm not going to

Starting point is 00:23:23 spend time with them. I don't know how old you are, but especially if you're an adult, I think that's important. That doesn't mean that you say, I'm never forgiving them. I'm never reconciling. I am never going to spend time with them or talk to them again. I think that there is a way to draw boundaries without bitterness. And I think it's important to do that with parents whose presence is a constant, a constant tearing down force in your life rather than an edifying force. And again, I don't think that means we cut out everyone that doesn't serve us in our life or every kind of inconvenient person or person that we just don't like or a person whose personality doesn't exactly jive with ours, especially when it comes to our parents.

Starting point is 00:24:04 But I also don't think that that means that we have to be constantly spending time with them and constantly talk to them and do everything that they want us to do. If you are an adult, there is a level of independence there that I think is good, that I think is healthy, and boundaries that I think you can exercise. There is a book called boundaries. Gosh, I haven't read it in a long time. I forget who it's by. Those of you who have read it are probably saying it out loud as you're listening to this. I don't remember what it's called. But if I remember correctly, it's pretty good and a lot of people have recommended it. Sorry if you're listening to this and you're like, no, it's not good. I haven't read it probably since college. But maybe that's something to read and then

Starting point is 00:24:44 to compare against scripture, just like with all things. So I think there's a way to draw boundaries without bitterness and to love people through that. And make sure that you have a community also outside of them to, again, join a local church. Make sure there are people spurring you on that will also help you and give you wisdom and dealing with difficult parents or just difficult people in general. Is justification important to the gospel? Can you have the gospel without justification? So justification is, it means, I guess it's a fancy term to say that you have been made right before God.

Starting point is 00:25:25 You have been justified. If you think about trying to justify yourself, you're saying, oh, this is why I made these choices because you are trying to get approval. for the choices that you have made. Well, Jesus justifies us, not in the sense that he makes excuses for our sin, but he makes us right before God. I mean, that is the, that's the core of the gospel. That by grace through faith, as Ephesians 2 8 through 10 tells us,

Starting point is 00:25:51 we have been made right. We have been justified by Jesus, our advocates. We have been justified, made right before God, even with all of our sin, no matter what we've done, because Jesus' death has made us new. He has given us a blank slate. He has made us a new creation so that we are made righteous. He actually gives us his righteousness so that we could be approved and accepted by God who can only accept righteousness.

Starting point is 00:26:21 And because God loves us so much, even while we hated him, even while we rejected him, even while we were sinners, he gave us a way through Christ to be made righteous and be made new so that we could be friends. and heirs of God. And so justification is all part of that. Justification is being made right before God. And that's what by grace through faith, Jesus' death does for us. Are you on the Stanley water bottle trend? I am. I am. I got it a few months ago. And I got a few because I got them for my friends. I only have one myself. But I got it for a few people that I was like, they will enjoy this. And I really like it. I like the handle, all the good stuff. I don't know if I can say like they're absolutely the cat's meow and a Yeti is just not something you should. I don't think I can say that. But I do appreciate my Stanley. I think I drink more water because of my Stanley because it's so

Starting point is 00:27:24 convenient. Do I prep meals for the week? No, I wish I did. But I have gotten a lot more creative in my cooking and following recipes and things like that, which was one of my resolutions. It's not really a resolution for 2023. I just decided in January that I was going to do it. And that's been fun, except that it takes me like an hour and a half to do the recipes that tell me they take 35 minutes because I have untreated attention deficit disorder. Let's see. What is my favorite part of being a wife and mom? Okay, I'll end on this question.

Starting point is 00:28:00 My favorite part of being a wife and a mom. Gosh, my favorite part of being a wife is and always has been. I know this is going to sound so cheesy, but it's just true. just having someone to always be with, to always have fun with, just coming home and knowing that if we want to, if we want to, we don't do this every night. We used to when our metabolisms were faster. You can come home every night and you can order some food and you can watch TV. And it can just be a Tuesday. It doesn't have to be a Friday.

Starting point is 00:28:33 And no one is calling you asking, where are you? you don't have any kind of Christian accountability saying, hey, are you on two separate couches or like whatever it is? You don't have to go home. You can just chill with your person and just have fun with them and do. I mean, that's part of adulthood too that I love is that I can eat whatever I want without anyone saying and I can watch as much TV as I want. Again, I don't do all of those things, but it's fun to have that freedom and also not to have homework, even though I do work on this stuff at night. So just like being with my best. friend and with my person, the person who knows me the best that I'm most comfortable with

Starting point is 00:29:10 and just being able to look forward to that every night and just experiencing so much joy and sadness and pain and success and all of that stuff with having that person to cheer you on and to be your sounding board and to support you and to be the same for them. It's just good. I love marriage. Being a mom, it's just the just absolutely overwhelming love that you have for your kids. It's it's painful actually how much you love them sometimes physically painful how much you love them and just the constant overwhelming feeling of looking at that human being and be like, I would do anything for you at any time. I would run through a thousand walls for you and I've only known you for like two years. It's overwhelming. It really is. And seeing their personalities

Starting point is 00:30:01 develop and become individuals and seeing how God has creatively constructed them and being a part of that and helping those little personalities glorify God and understand who he is and understand life. It's just good. It's good. Family is good. Don't let anyone tell you that it's not or that it's not worth the sacrifice and responsibility. All of it is hard. All of it is work. But anything worthwhile is. All right. That's what we'll end on today. Thanks so much for listening. I will be back here live tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

Starting point is 00:30:43 They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over high. hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 765 | Can Women Be Pastors? SBC vs. Saddleback | Q&A

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