Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 766 | The Gospel Coalition’s Scandalous Sex Article

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. The Gospel Coalition published, then removed what some are calling a very scandalous article arguing that sex is a symbol of the gospel. I have a lot of thoughts on that. Also, a pastor in Canada is facing jail time. for protesting drag queen story hour. Why aren't more prominent Christians talking about this and similar stories around the world?

Starting point is 00:01:06 This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use promo code Alley at checkout. That's Good Ranchers.com code Alley. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Tuesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week. Hope you had a great weekend.

Starting point is 00:01:29 We had a pre-recorded episode yesterday, Q&A. It's a quick episode, fun episode. you guys asked me a lot of good questions. As I said last week, or I guess yesterday, on the pre-recorded episode, I was in California on Sunday, Monday. I was actually in Florida last week for speaking engagement. Got to bring part of my family then. Got to bring part of my family to California. So that was fun. Florida was great. I was talking to a pro-life organization, Christian organization. And I love being around to people like that and getting to encourage them because you're just reminded of the good work that the Lord is doing that doesn't always make headlines and just how many

Starting point is 00:02:07 genuine and generous Christians there are out there who care so much about the least of these, who care so much about the most vulnerable. It is an honor and a privilege to be able to use whatever words the Lord gives me, to be able to inspire them and to tell them that what they're doing is worth it. And then I got to speak for California Family Council on Sunday and then Monday at their pro-life rally on Monday. and then at an event that they had on Sunday night and again just got to encourage. I mean, California Christian conservatives, obviously they feel like they're up against a lot,

Starting point is 00:02:40 but something that I said that I really feel like the Holy Spirit gave to me in the moment is that if the gospel was strong enough, was powerful enough to be able to strengthen Christians under Nero, It is powerful and effective enough to strengthen Christians under Newsom. I said it better in the speech, but it's the general sentiment is the same, that Christians before us have had even bigger obstacles, even nastier tyrants, even more bloodthirsty politicians, bigger challenges than the ones we are facing today and still do throughout the world. have bigger challenges than the one that we're facing. And the same gospel brought them to the end.

Starting point is 00:03:31 The same Holy Spirit empowered them. The same Jesus emboldened them. The same father protected them with their presence. And so if they can do it, if Christians before us have been carrying this torch for the past 2,000 years on behalf of the gospel, on behalf of the most vulnerable, then we can continue to do that today. So that's what the past few days of my life have been about, just speaking to Christians who kind of needed that encouragement. So thankful. So thankful for everyone that I met out there who's listening to this podcast.

Starting point is 00:04:03 Maybe you're listening for the first time because you heard me speak or you or you met me or maybe you've been a long time listener and it's always great to meet you guys in person. So thanks so much for coming. And thank you all also for being here. So also, oh, one thing I wanted to say too, just to encourage you. So I was giving my speech on the. steps of the Capitol in Sacramento, California, just talking about the importance of define or pushing back as much as we can against the legislation coming down the pipeline in California that literally legalizes infanticide and some are going to try to basically close down pregnancy centers by opening them up to all of these frivolous and ridiculous lawsuits. And so as I was talking to was a very quick speech yesterday, I had counter protesters

Starting point is 00:04:52 in the back and they had their emergency sirens that were very loud. They're screaming and they're shouting, of course, trying to drown out any of the, any of the speaker's words. And so thankfully, the speakers were the speakers themselves, not the speaker me speaking, but the, you know, the speakers amplifying the sound were very loud. And so I also got to go up and just thank them and say, you know what? I think that you guys are playing sirens back there because you realize what an emergency it is. that California allows abortion through all nine months of pregnancy.

Starting point is 00:05:25 I don't think that they appreciated that very much. But again, thank all of you who came out there courageously, who took the time to come out there and rally for the sake of the unborn. That kind of fight is always worth it. All right, we're going to get into this gospel coalition story. I'm not going to be able to talk about it as much as I want to because we've got a lot of ground to cover with the other stories that we're talking about. but I'll tell you my surprising.

Starting point is 00:05:50 I think you'll find a surprising opinion on this. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

Starting point is 00:06:09 On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave,

Starting point is 00:06:20 even when it's unpopular. This is a show. for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. All right.

Starting point is 00:06:43 So the Gospel Coalition, Big Christian website. You guys are familiar. They released an article by Josh Butler. And it was actually an excerpt from the intro of his forthcoming book called Beautiful Union. So in this excerpt that was posted. as an article. Butler argues that sex is not salvation. So in it, he argues that sex is not salvation, but points to salvation. He said that he used to look for sex to sex, to basically save him,

Starting point is 00:07:11 to make him whole, and he realized that this was never going to happen. But he also argues that he realizes that sex points to the one who does fully satisfy you, which is Christ. It points to the gospel. So he says, the sexual act between a man and a woman within marriage is an icon of salvation. It is representative of salvation. It's a metaphor for it. It shows the relationship between Christ and the church. So he says some things in this article that are pretty graphic. More graphic than I think a lot of Christians are willing to go on this. And I'll quote some things from it. So just know kind of where this is going. So generosity and hospitality, he says, are both embodied in the sexual act. Generosity involves giving extravagantly to someone and what

Starting point is 00:07:56 deeper form of self-giving is there than sexual union where the husband pours out his very presence, not only upon, but within his wife. Hospitality, on the other hand, involves receiving the life of the other. Here again, what deeper form of hospitality is there than sexual union where the wife welcomes her husband into the sanctuary of her very self. He talks about during a honeymoon, the groom goes into his bride. He is not only with his beloved, but within his beloved. He enters the sanctuary of his spouse, where he pours out his deepest presence and bestows an offering a gift, a sign of his pilgrimage that has the potential to grow within her into new life. He says, this is a picture of the gospel. The bride gladly receives the warmth of his presence and accepts the sacrificial offering

Starting point is 00:08:45 he bestows upon the altar within her most holy place. So he doesn't say, it's actually much less explicit than he could be. Obviously, he is using the metaphor. and he is hoping that we understand the mechanics of sex to pick up on what he is putting down. So they published this because he is a fellow in a new fellowship program, which is the, let's see, what's it called? The Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. He is a fellow in that new program that is, was established by the gospel coalition. So that's why they published this excerpt.

Starting point is 00:09:27 And there was immediate backlash from the conservative side that said, okay, this is weird. This is weird. This is too erotic. It's too graphic. It's just too much. And then you saw from the progressive side, too patriarchal. This is exploitative of women.

Starting point is 00:09:43 This is insensitive toward women. This is not considering the victimhood throughout history of women. And this is simply bad theology. So Beth Allison Barr, she's a professor. She's an author. She says that I really think that TGC should do some self-reflection about why they thought that article was okay to publish. It reveals so much that is deeply wrong with complementarian ideas about women.

Starting point is 00:10:06 Complementarian means that men and women are equal and worth, but they have different roles within marriage within the church. And obviously, I am complementarian. I believe that that's biblical versus egalitarian, which means that men and women can actually have these same roles within marriage and within the church, which I think is profoundly unbiblical in a lot of ways. that they perceive women as passive objects and men as sexual overlords. When this article is put in context of what male leaders who ascribed to

Starting point is 00:10:33 complementarian theology are taught, Jonathan Pekluda, wow, we've had him on this podcast and I think that he's great. His objectification of a woman makes so much sense. I hope he considers that, too. I don't know what she's referencing there. Jacob did Hollander says, he says basically he argues that this article teaches the objectification of women, the sacralizing of male orgasm, liking the Holy Spirit to redacted, and the spiritualization of androcentric sex. And then we've got Sheila Gregory.

Starting point is 00:11:12 She wrote a book called The Great Sex Rescue. She takes issue, again, with the objectification and the patriarchal themes that she sees inherent in this article. She says the problem is that the Keller Center has five female fellows and 22 male fellows. At TGC, 2023, only 17 of the 90 speakers are female. All eight keynote speakers are male. So she sees that as part of the problem, again, kind of patriarchy. So after this pushback, TGC actually took down the article. They issued a statement and they said, you know, we listened to our critics and the objections and we've taken it down. And we accepted Josh's resignation as a Keller center fellow. They ask for forgiveness. They thank them for accountability. They say, thank you so much

Starting point is 00:12:00 for being patient with us. And then he also had some people who had previously endorsed his book, say, you know what? I don't. I don't endorse your book anymore. So Rich Viota, he's a New York pastor. He is very progressive, very social justice-centric. He issued this long statement saying, you know, I don't, I know I issued an endorsement for this book, but I don't actually endorse the book. I didn't read the whole book. So that's the problem. And after hearing people's criticisms and reflecting on it, I realize that it's not just wrong, but it's actually dangerous.

Starting point is 00:12:33 The statements were actually dangerous. Now, the interesting thing about Rich Viotas is that he wrote a book. He wrote a book that argued a very similar thing. He says this in his... his book, The Deeply Formed Life, and this is according to, by the way, Stuyven Peter at the American Reformer who talks about the reaction to this TGC article. He says, what makes Viotis's retraction instructive for demonstrating the dynamics of the negative world is that Viotis and Butler share virtually identical positions on sex. Viotis has also written a book on

Starting point is 00:13:14 cultural apologetics, The Deeply Formed Life, and which he has a chapter on sex, he calls sex a sacrament. Love making in and outside the bedroom is a revelation. What does it reveal? Well, without overstating it, it reveals God. It is sacramental. Our love making is to manifest our union with each other. And so do we manifest God's union to the world. So Peter says this. Though Viotis is not as graphic as Butler, the same concepts are present.

Starting point is 00:13:36 And working, Butler uses icon Viotis uses a sacrament, but both want to capture that sex reveals something about the divine. Jesus initiates by giving his body to the church and self-giving love. Per Ephesians 5, the man is the head of the marriage who gives himself to his wife and this love is self-giving and generative. To be clear, Butler and Viotis believe the same things about how the sexual act reveals God and mirrors the pattern of initiation and reception between Christ and the church. In fact, Viotis says this. Moreover, lovemaking is an act of mission when a couple is in love, giving and receiving each other in bodily emotional and spiritual communion, they can't help but overflow in love to the world around him.

Starting point is 00:14:14 So he basically argues the same thing as Josh Butler does, but he retracted his endorsement because he got pressure from progress. feminist activist who said that this is patriarchal and somehow anti-woman. Roger Rear, he also wrote an article about this in the American Conservative, and basically, he says that the reaction to this by evangelicals is totally overblown. And let me just say, because I haven't revealed my opinion yet, but you can probably pick up on it by my tone, I happen to agree. I think the reaction to this, on both the left and the right, is absolutely overblown and ridiculous. Someone sent me this article and was like, oh my gosh, have you seen this? This is so

Starting point is 00:14:54 cringe from the TGC. Let me just tell you. I read it and I was like, what? I mean, yeah, it's more graphic than I would like. Of course. I wouldn't have thought of that or written that article. I probably wouldn't have gone that in depth, but this is a book about sex. And this person, you might not like his argument. You might not agree with his argument. But I do not agree with the people saying this is too erotic. Maybe clumsy in some ways. Again, maybe. Maybe. A little bit, I mean, enough to make me a little uncomfortable, but are we really so prudish that we cannot talk about sex like this? I mean, he makes a really good point. Josh Butler, in his article that the Bible is actually very explicit.

Starting point is 00:15:33 Like the Hebrew word for sex is he went into her. Much more explicit than we are when we use our euphemisms like lovemaking and sleeping together and having sex, which is all fine, by the way. I think those are fine euphemisms. But he's making the point that the Bible is actually very explicit about what sex is. and that that is a representation of Christian marriage and not just Christian marriage, but the joining in of a man and a woman as one flesh, which is indicative of sex. And he is saying, just as Ephesians 5 argues, that marriage in its own mysterious way, is a representation of Christ and the church, the husband representative of Christ,

Starting point is 00:16:16 the wife representative of the church, just as Christ lay. down his life for the church. So a husband is to lay down his life for his wife in many different ways. And the wife is to submit to her husband as to the Lord. Husbands love your wives. As Christ love the church, wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord. That's what the end of Ephesians 5 tells us. And he is saying that that's not just true and just the relationship dynamics there. That is also true of the sexual act. That is also innate in the sexual act. Now, there's a very. a lot of interesting debates about this. People who are much more theologically savvy than me and who know more about the interpretation in exegesis of the Bible disagree with his theology

Starting point is 00:17:01 when it comes to this. So I'm open to those debates. But I agree in general that absolutely not just the marriage relationship, but the dynamic of sex between a man and a woman in that marriage relationship is actually reflective of in particular ways of Christ in the church. Absolutely. And Rod Dreher wrote this article basically saying, Do evangelicals not understand this? Because he says that Catholic and Orthodox theology recognize sex as some kind of icon and representation of Christ in the church. So why are evangelicals confused about this?

Starting point is 00:17:36 And then Denny Burke, he wrote an article defending complementarianism since people have been attacking complementarianism and complementarian theology because of this. and and so and I think that his article on this is really good by the way and he talks about the importance of the complementarian dynamic. He looks at 1st Corinthians 11, 9, Ephesians 5, 25 and how this is displayed in Christ's sacrificial death and resurrection. And he says that TGC's apology should have clarified these issues. confronted problems in Butler's article, affirmed scripture's husband-wife typology, and rejected the accusations against complementarian theology. He's absolutely right. Because TGC's theology,

Starting point is 00:18:26 you don't really know what they're apologizing for. You don't really know what they're apologizing for. You're kind of confused about it. You're kind of like, wait, are you saying that this was patriarchal, that this was anti-woman in some way, which I really don't read it all? So I honestly, like, I did not have the same issues with this article that people, on the left and the right did. Again, I'm not sure that it was all completely theoretically solid, but people honestly, you need to get a grip a little bit. It's okay for people to write things that are, I mean, it's okay for people to write things that we don't like, right? But the TGC absolutely should have done a better job at responding

Starting point is 00:19:08 to this. And I do think that this is like cancel culture, by the way. I do. And I don't think it's wrong for people to be canceled for right reasons. I just think this person is canceled for wrong reasons. I'm sure that there are things that we disagree on. Theologically, by the way, the fact that he had Rich Viotas as someone who is endorsing his book means that he's probably actually progressive in a lot of ways. However, I just really, I just really think that he was mistreated in this instance. And I think that the reaction to this article is absolutely, absolutely overblown. All right. Now let's talk about that Canadian pastor that was recently arrested for protesting a drag queen story hour.

Starting point is 00:20:00 The fact that those four words can even go together, and we all understand what we're talking about, that there is such thing as a drag queen story hour where men are dressed up as caricatures of women, scantily clad women, reading books to children, in some cases, dancing before children for money. The fact that that is, even a thing that we discuss on a fairly regular basis because it is so pervasive in the United

Starting point is 00:20:32 States and in Canada and in other Western countries, that alone is disturbing enough for us to say, please, Jesus, have mercy on us. Come back. We have fallen so far. Ask not, as I've heard people say, I think this is maybe even a direct quote from Calvin Robinson, although many of us have said this in different ways, but I like how he says it. Ask not why children want to see drag queens perform. Ask yourself rather why drag queens want an audience of children. There is no innocuous, there is no non-perverted reason for a grown man to want to dress in fishnets and sometimes a thong and in fake boobs and present themselves to children. There is no non-petophilic reason for that.

Starting point is 00:21:28 And you know, I've been thinking about this, before we even get into the story, but I've been thinking about, you know, the parental rights movement that we have in the United States, that thankfully has been led by a lot of conservative moms and dads who have taken over school boards who have said, you know, the state is not our co-parent. And public schools don't get a say in how we raise our children.

Starting point is 00:21:49 They're not going to indoctrinate our children with a worldview that is counter to the one that we have, which, by the way, that is just inherent in public school. But parents saying, no, we have a right to be the authority and to be the primary influence in our child's life. I think that's great. But something that we say is that parents know what is best for their children. And in general, I do believe that parents do what is best for their children. But maybe it's more accurate to say that parents do what they believe. believe is best for their children because obviously looking at these videos that I see every single

Starting point is 00:22:25 week posted not just from lives of TikTok but other conservative commentators and journalists showing parents willingly voluntarily cheerfully bringing their children to these kinds of performances not just story hours but again bringing them to restaurants where these scantily clad men are twerking for money I think you know I'm not sure that that's really true I'm not sure that it's true that parents in general or that all parents do what is best for their children. Like obviously we know that they're abusive parents. They're manipulative parents. They're really bad parents out there. But we see them as this tiny, tiny exception. But then when you see these parents totally shamelessly presenting their children, sexual exploitation, and in a particular

Starting point is 00:23:17 way, sexual predation, damaging their innocence purposely, I'm just not so sure that we can say confidently that parents are doing what is best for their children. I think good parents do what is best for their children. I don't think that we can say parents in general are doing what's best for their children. I mean, think about all of the parents who I'm sure love their children and are trying to do what's best for this shows, but think about all the parents that masked their 18-month-old to their two-year-old who still do so in the name of trying to protect their health, even after all the data has come out, not really because they care so much about their child, not getting COVID or not spreading COVID, but because they've been told that this is what it looks like to be virtuous.

Starting point is 00:24:05 I mean, I'm just not so sure. We can trust the discernment and the judgment of parents, especially those that are taking their kids to drag Queen's story hour. So what, I mean, what exactly do we do about that? Because at the end of the day, that's the issue, right? I don't think that there would be a supply of drag queen story out. I don't think that there would be a supply of these all-ages drag shows if there wasn't a demand, right? If there weren't parents that were bringing their kids to these shows and saying, yes, this is well and good.

Starting point is 00:24:37 This is what I want for my kids. That's a problem. That's a much bigger problem. That's a much bigger problem. There's always going to be some. some perverts out there who want to twerk for kids, unfortunately. I think it should be illegal. Absolutely. But why are their parents who even allow that? Why aren't all parents absolutely appalled by that? If all parents were appalled by that, it just wouldn't be happening. It simply

Starting point is 00:25:03 would not be happening. But because there is apparently a pretty large cohort of parents who think that that is worth celebration, we've got it. We have to look at it. We have to talk about it. So what exactly do we do about that? I don't know. I guess just like every other problem, it goes back to exchanging the God of Scripture for the God of self. It goes back to calling the truth a lie, calling good evil and evil good.

Starting point is 00:25:30 And there really needs to be a reawakening. But there certainly needs to be, there certainly needs to be legal restrictions on this kind of thing. And thankfully, conservative states like Tennessee, Florida, they're waking up to that reality. And they're, I mean, the parents obviously aren't stepping in and protecting these children.

Starting point is 00:25:46 So someone has to and says, you know what? It's illegal. It's illegal to do this. And this pastor in Canada recognizes the absolute perversion and the depravity in doing something like this. He recognizes the dereliction of duty that is represented by these parents who are sending these kids to these story hours. And he's saying, okay, I'm going to do something.

Starting point is 00:26:05 I'm going to do something. I am going to speak truth to this absolute disgusting display of sin and iniquity. And he believes that this is what God has called him to do. So this happened at the Calgary Public Library in Alberta, Canada, and they host a regular Reading with Royalty event that feature family-friendly storytime programs led by local drag queen, king, and monarch performers. What does that even mean? So Pastor Derek Scott Reamer of Mission 7 Ministries in Calgary protests to the February 25th event at the Seton Library branch as part of a planned demonstration. So here was the reaction to him peacefully protesting this event at the library.

Starting point is 00:26:49 Okay. We are now calling the police. We have the police coming. We have the police coming. So it is your choice to leave or deal with the police. We are going to say. For love is love. Hey guys. We're exposing the darkness on this wickedness. We're talking about it right here. And we're coming down to more and more than it shows to say that this is not okay, that this is wrong, this is evil. To have a pervert dressed up like that is wrong and evil.

Starting point is 00:27:24 So children, don't believe this. Parents don't let your children be involved with this wickedness. All right. So I don't know if you could hear what he said, but there's nothing that he said that was wrong. He said this is wrong, this is wicked that is evil to have a pervert dressed like this and reading for kids, parents. you need to do better than this. You need to make a better choice than this.

Starting point is 00:27:49 There's nothing that he said that was wrong. He wasn't being violent there. He was kicked out. Okay, so you might think, you know what? It was their right to kick him out. I'm not really sure if that's true, but it's not like he was beaten or killed or something like that. All right, that's true, but that's not the end of the story.

Starting point is 00:28:04 He was actually arrested. He was arrested by state authorities. On Thursday, March 2nd, has been charged with one count of causing a disturbance and one count of mischief. He's also facing six counts of harassment under the city's public behavior bylaw. This bylaw carries a $500 fine for communicating with a person in a manner that could reasonably cause offense or humiliation. Gosh, we're so weak.

Starting point is 00:28:27 We're so freaking weak that you could be, you could be charged $500 for talking to a person in a way that causes offense. Boo-hoo. Including referring to a person's gender identity or sexual orientation. Oh my gosh. Our ancestors. They did, if they saw us today, they would be so embarrassed. Police say he entered the classroom where the event was taking place and shouted homophobic

Starting point is 00:28:54 and transphobic slurs at children and parents in attendance. Whatever. He was offered a $3,000 bail last week on the condition that he stayed away from drag queen events. He refused so he will remain in jail. And his next bail hearing will be on March 14th. As of last night, police claim he was released, but this is not confirmed. and he has not been in contact with friends family. He has received several tickets for feeding the homeless without a permit.

Starting point is 00:29:19 You need a permit to feed the homeless. And violation of COVID-19 restrictions. Oh, my goodness, it's more important that we stay six feet away, I guess, for the sake of pretense when it comes to COVID restrictions that it is to feed the homeless. Of course, we saw this all throughout COVID. We saw pastors being put in jail. We talked to a pastor that was.

Starting point is 00:29:42 placed in jail simply because he opened his church and preached to the gospel. He was not the only pastor who was put in jail. There were several pastors who were imprisoned, who were arrested simply for opening their church and preaching the gospel in Canada. You can't say that Canada is a democratic country. You can't. You can't say that it's a tolerant country. You can't say that it's any beacon of any kind of liberty or equality. It is an anti-Christian totalitarian state that fools people into thinking that they're democratic because they're nice and because Justin Trudeau looks put together. But he said in 2013, we've played the SOT before where he said he actually admires Canada or sorry, admires China for their basic dictatorship. And that, of course, is what he has tried to manifest in a previously

Starting point is 00:30:30 pretty peaceful and pretty actually democratic and free country. Of course, he takes after his father and carrying the torch of trying to grow the power. the state and wielding it against Christians and conservatives. I mean, we saw that also in the trucking protest, that he literally froze the bank accounts of people who opposed him because of the vaccine mandates, just an ugly, ugly soul. But people will fall for anything as long as it looks okay. Shouldn't you value this kind of speech? Like, shouldn't you at least be able to look at this and say, you know, I believe that you

Starting point is 00:31:10 should be able to peacefully protest something? I believe that you should be able to oppose something with your words. Like I just talked about how I delivered a speech in California and how there were sirens playing in the background during my speech. Like did I call for those people to be arrested, to be tackled by my security or the Capitol police there? No, I spoke over them because I know my ideas are better than theirs. Like, I'm not scared of their shouting.

Starting point is 00:31:40 Like, I know their message is one. of murder. It's one of ugliness. I'm not worried about their harassment or their nonsensical signs or their sirens. And like, are they going to get arrested by the state of California for putting, you know, for playing sirens during my speech and not just during my speech, but also the national anthem during prayers? No. And I actually think, I mean, as awful as it is, I believe that it's their right to be there and to counter protest. even if they are protesting in favor for the literal dismemberment of children, I still see the importance of a politically neutral First Amendment. Yes, there are limits to the First Amendment.

Starting point is 00:32:22 This is not one of them. And when we live in a society, a supposedly democratic and free and moral and virtuous society that is favoring men dressed up a scantily clad women over the pastor who is simply trying to protect those children from that perversion, we know that we've gone too far, too far, perhaps past the point of no return. At his previous arrest, he said from the back of the police vehicle, I guess this is when he was feeding the homeless in violation of COVID-19 restrictions. He said, they put me in a little cage. That's how they treat people here in Canada when they preach the gospel against this

Starting point is 00:33:04 wickedness, against this abomination, this drag queen show, all ages. that's affecting the children, corrupting the children, Canadians stand up. And Tucker Carlson of Fox News, he covered this last week, and he asked a question that I think is totally legitimate. And I say this is someone who probably does not agree with Tucker Carlson in a lot of ways, Theologically. I honestly am not totally sure what his theology is. I believe that he is Episcopalian, which is on the, theologically, is on the far left. in. I'm not saying that he identifies with all of the tenets of Episcopalian theology, but I am sure that we disagree on a lot of things.

Starting point is 00:33:46 But when he calls out these evangelicals for being silent on this issue, I think he makes a very, very valid point. Here he is. Where are all the professional Christians? You have to wonder that again. Where's David French and Beth Moore and Tim Keller and all these people who are defending Christianity as actual Christians are being arrested for being Christians. Hmm, not a word. Again, I probably align theologically. Like, if we're just looking at basic theological tenets, I probably align more with David French and Tim Keller and Beth Moore. If we're just looking at

Starting point is 00:34:24 like the basic tenets of the gospel and Christianity, I mean, I'm sure that we agree on more than Tucker Carlson and I do. But Tucker is making a very legitimate point when it comes to this, these are people who are not silent on politics. They're very loud when it comes to politics. They will talk about culture wars. But at the end of the day, I believe that these people, some of the people that he listed, are actually embarrassed by Christians like this. They're actually embarrassed by Christians who defied COVID mandates. They're actually embarrassed by the pastors in Canada who said, I'm not closing my doors. They're embarrassed by people like John MacArthur, who said, you know what, we're going to stay open, even though Newsom is trying to shut us down.

Starting point is 00:35:06 as they're keeping liquor stores and strip clubs open. No, we are going to keep our church doors open. We are going to continue to follow the authority of Christ, whose authority supersedes the American governments, supersedes state government, supersedes the Canadian government, and we are going to continue to preach the gospel no matter what you do to us. I think that the Christians that he listed here are actually embarrassed by those people and actually think that those people are unloving,

Starting point is 00:35:35 who don't think that it's really the right thing to do to stand up to men who are praying upon children wearing fake boobs and thongs and fishnets. Now, I'm not saying they agree with that. I don't. Like, I don't think that Beth Moore or Russell Moore or any of those people think that drag queens are great or drag queen's story hour is great. At the end of the day, if they really got down to it, again, I think that we probably agree, probably more than Tucker.

Starting point is 00:36:02 does on the biblical ethic of homosexuality on homosexuality and sexuality and marriage and sex and all of those things. So we probably agree, but they are unwilling to wade into those culture wars because they see them as right wing. They see them as conservatives, just making a big deal out of things, but that doesn't stop them from talking about other things from a left wing perspective like race or COVID or things like that. And it's not just this, it's not just this kind of issue. It's also if you look at the other stories that are similar around the world, you just don't see them, especially, I mean, Russell Moore, he was the head of the ERLC, who cares obviously, ostensibly, about religious liberty. I believe that they sincerely do.

Starting point is 00:36:49 He was the head of the ERLC, the Ethics and Religious Liberty Committee. And I just, it's not that I don't think that he cares about religious liberty, but I do wonder when it comes to these issues why they aren't more vocal when they are so vocal about other political issues, are so vocal about Trump. They're so vocal about racism. They're so vocal about the importance of getting your vaccine and wearing your mask to loving your neighbor, to love your neighbor. And yet I don't hear a lot of them talking about, for example, Isabel von Spruce, who was arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic. Again, she was arrested for praying outside an abortion clinic. We talked about her story a couple months ago. She was arrested for praying in front of a silently

Starting point is 00:37:36 praying, by the way, silently praying in front of an abortion center. And now she was arrested again on March 6th. This is in Birmingham, England. She was standing there in front of the abortion clinic. She was silently praying. And this is what her exchange looked like with the police officer who said, I'm going to have to arrest you for this. Can I please ask you to step away from here and step outside the exclusion zone? I'm protesting and engaging in the activity. But you've said you're engaging in prayer, which is the offence? It's not in prayer.

Starting point is 00:38:11 No, but you are still engaging in prayer. It is an offence. I disagree. Okay, then. So you would rather that you'd be arrested and taken away than stand outside the exclusion zone. Is that what I'm saying? Are there in the torture at all?

Starting point is 00:38:25 Yes. All right. So hopefully you are able to decipher what was said there. If you're watching this, there are captions for you to read. So if you need to understand, you can turn this on YouTube if you're just listening to this. But she is arguing, look, sure, I'm outside or I'm not in the, I'm in a restricted zone, but I'm only in a restricted zone legally for that restricts certain behaviors, like causing a disturbance or protest. or something like that. Apparently there are these zones and which you can't do those things. And she is arguing, okay, but the zones that you're talking about only prohibit certain kinds of behavior that I am not engaging in. She was literally standing there with her hands in her pockets, closing her eyes. And I'm sure someone from the pregnancy center, just the evil demonic forces that they are, called the police instead. Hey, come over here. Someone is silently praying and I'm mad about it. Because, yeah, the prayer of a righteous person has great power. They should be

Starting point is 00:39:27 out about it. They should be scared about it. And she was previously arrested on December 6th. She was acquitted on February 16th. And now she is, you know, facing charges again for the same for the same thing. Today, Tuesday, March 7th, the House of Commons actually will debate amendments to the public order that would criminalize any form of influencing outside of abortion facilities. Penalties could include a prison term of up to two years. As of 9.30 a.m. CST on March 7th, no decision has been made on any amendments. A conservative member parliament has proposed two changes that would exempt consensual communication, silent prayer, and peaceful presence at clinics from being

Starting point is 00:40:07 criminalized. It's so silly that like the conservatives are just asking for like more souls of freedom. That's so true. And Canada, it's almost true in a lot of cases here too. But I mean, obviously the truth is that there should never be any kind of restriction on prayer and on peaceful protest. They don't technically have the First Amendment there, but as a supposedly Western democracy, they are supposed to care about free speech and the freedom of religion, and they clearly don't. Sacraments like abortion and LGBTQ behavior is seen as much holier and much worthy, much more worthy of protection than prayer and then worship and then speech. So we're seeing this throughout the world, and not only there, but there was also that Finnish MP who quoted the Bible, Romans 1, 24 through 27, posted it on, posted it on Facebook.

Starting point is 00:41:04 And of course, that talks about homosexuality and the behavior being sinful. And she is actually facing up to two years in prison for exercising her rights of free speech. And then there was the Swedish or the Norwegian filmmaker. she's a lesbian filmmaker. She is facing up the three years in prison for saying that men cannot be lesbians. So that's where we are throughout the world. Saying things that are true against supposedly marginalized groups, protected groups, can get you thrown in jail. And so again, I think Tucker asks a really good question. Why aren't more Christians? Christians with the biggest platforms, Christians with a whole lot of influence, Christians who I know know their Bibles and I believe care about what the Bible says.

Starting point is 00:41:54 Why do they choose not to speak up on these things, which I think are a much bigger issue than the problems that they very often choose to spotlight? Now, I am not saying that every Christian influencer has to talk about every issue to demonstrate that they care about it. I don't believe that. In fact, that it really bothers me when people hold, you know, Christians to that. I mean, I talk about a lot of stuff, but that's my job. I understand that's not Russell Moore's job necessarily.

Starting point is 00:42:21 That might be David French's job, but it's not Beth Moore's job. It's not, you know, all of these Christian influencers job to talk about every cultural issue. My problem is how they choose and how they choose to talk about the issues that they do. And it's typically the issues that they believe will help get them points on the left, at least the ones the people that Tucker listed. And that is why you have someone like Beth Moore traveling to Waco, Texas and talking to a bunch of students at Baylor about the apparently pervasive problem about white supremacy in the church. She delivered this speech on February 17th time to wake up racism in the white church. And she just talked about how she is, she's learning about this.

Starting point is 00:43:12 And we all need to be learning about this. and she talked a lot about the history of racism within the church and not just that, but also the history of racism within America. I need you to think of me. She says, in this journey toward anti-racism, I can't believe that we're still doing this. I mean, the facade has been completely taken off. Like the mask has been taken off of BLM and Ibrax Kendi and Nicole Hannah Jones and Robin DeAngelo.

Starting point is 00:43:42 and we are still using their language, even though we have had so many wise Christians point out how their arguments are so not just illogical, incoherent, but also profoundly unbiblical. And yet we still have Christian influencers using their language and promoting it as biblical. So her journey toward anti-racism as a middle school at best, pimple face with braces and extremely awkward and sometimes giggly, I need you to go to all those places with me and know that I've just begun my own journey. I mean, this really is so much like a Maoist struggle session taking on this cultural and secular language in order to kind of alleviate any criticism or try to ameliorate any critics who might judge someone for being racist or for being part of white

Starting point is 00:44:37 supremacy or upholding the apparent racism and something like the Southern Baptist Convention, a denomination that she was a part of for a long time. She just, again, more self-deprecating language talking about her learning curve and that she grew up in the white church and had white thinking. And then she talks about how this all changed during the murder of Trayvon Martin in 2012. And again, you'll just remember that the Trayvon Martin case, the Michael Brown case, all extremely contentious, extremely wrought with debate and discussion of what actually went on and what the problems were. And then she talks about, which I'm glad that she admits this.

Starting point is 00:45:18 The shift came with the presidential campaign of 2016, which ushered a political divisiveness, the likes of which I've never seen. And this is something she talks about a lot, how she feels like evangelicals who support Trump have idolized him. And here's what she said. She said, we have come to a point in time when even to put love your neighbor on social, media is to be called woke. Really? Is that true? Is that an accurate description of what people are calling woke? When people say to, when you say love your neighbor, people say, oh, you're progressive for saying that, or is it what you are calling loving your neighbor? Is it maybe we don't agree with your definition of what loving your neighbor is? Because I know that you have linked wearing a

Starting point is 00:45:59 mask to loving your neighbor. We know that you have talked about, you know, dismantling systemic racism and things like that, which I think are all left-wing and secular, not biblical ideas of justice. You've linked those things to loving your neighbor. So maybe we disagree with what you mean by loving your neighbor. Maybe we think that what you are talking about is loving your neighbor is not actually loving because it's not actually just or correct or good. We can debate those things. I'm sure that she does actually want to love your neighbor, but I don't think that loving your

Starting point is 00:46:30 neighbor is woke. I just disagree with progressive people on what love actually looks like. She says white Christian Americans have been reluctant to condemn justice because they have benefited from it or sort of more struggle session language. Again, maybe it's just because we disagree on what you are calling injustice. There's a large debate about the extent of systemic racism today if systemic racism even exists. I don't think anyone denies that discrimination or prejudice can exist against white people, against black people, against brown people. But it is a debate. It is actually a theory, a theoretical assertion that,

Starting point is 00:47:05 systemic racism is alive and well today, this theory that there has been an unbroken threat of prejudice and racism against black people going all the way back from 1619 to today that has taken on different forms. I mean, Walter Williams, Thomas Soul have broken this down and refuted this very many times using data and history. So there's a debate about that. So to say that people who disagree with you are don't believe in loving their neighbor, or don't believe in fighting injustice. I mean, this is the kind of arrogance. It's like arrogance matched with it.

Starting point is 00:47:44 What I think is like this false self deprecation that this whole anti-racist ideology and social justice ideology actually produces. And she talks about how easy it is to be a white supremacist. You don't realize that you're a white supremacist. You don't have to be a skinhead to be a white supremacist. She says the work of anti-racism is gospel work. And if you don't know, people on the left say it's not possible to just not be a racist. You have to be actively anti-racist.

Starting point is 00:48:10 And how does Ibermax Kendi define that? Well, I will actually define it in more eloquent words than he does. But if you read his book, how to be an anti-racist, he basically thinks that current discrimination against white people is the remedy for past discrimination until we reach some sort of equal outcome. So is that really what Beth Moore is advocating for here? is she really arguing for partiality? Because that's directly unbiblical.

Starting point is 00:48:42 That's completely unbiblical. That's completely opposed to God's definitions of justice. What do we say if you look at the Old Testament and God's law giving to Israel? What are the four characteristics of justice that we see repeatedly? We see that justice, according to God, is truthful. It is direct. So that means that you as a white person are not on the hook. for either what your ancestors did or what someone who just vaguely looked like you did, who lives in the same, like, relative geographical region as you 200 years ago.

Starting point is 00:49:16 It is also proportional, so the punishment fits the crime, and that it is also impartial. We read over and over again, Old and New Testament that God hates partiality, that He hates when we favor the poor or when we favor the great, when we give preferential treatment to one person because of their status, whether it's their poor status, their small status, they're a big and powerful and rich status, God sees partiality as injustice. So to say that current partiality is the remedy for past partiality is sinful. It is unbiblical. So I just want to read you. I like when we're talking about this kind of stuff,

Starting point is 00:49:57 I just, again, want to read which I think summarizes. what we're talking about, James 3, starting in verse 13. Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct, let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exists, there will be disorder in every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits impartial and sincere and a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

Starting point is 00:50:39 The wisdom from above is pure, peaceful, gentle, open to reason. The ideology of anti-racism is closed off to reason. It is based largely on emotion. And again, theories, I would be curious how many books should. she has read on critical race theory. And I'm talking about by proponents of critical race theory, by the authors of critical race theory I have. And she might not realize that that is where many of her assertions are coming from. But in fact, they are. So all this to say, people like Beth Moore and some of the other people that are Carlson listed, they definitely find time and

Starting point is 00:51:23 energy and space and words to talk about cultural and political issues. But I just think, again, they're embarrassed by Christians who are standing up to issues that they see as right-wing conservative issues. It's more sophisticated. It's more biblical to stand up for issues that are traditionally left-wing. And I know they see themselves as non-political. I know. They see themselves as moderate.

Starting point is 00:51:47 And look, we all have our, I'm conservative. So I'm going to be thinking more about, I'm going to be thinking more about stories that kind of are, that my eyes are drawn. to. I understand we all have our biases. And I'm not saying that we don't. I'm certainly not perfect on this, but I'm telling you that I am a conservative. And these are the things that I care about. I do try to be as even as possible and as fair as possible, too. And I just don't see that from the culture warriors who say that they're Christian conservatives or say that they're moderate or say that they're apolitical who have so much breath to talk about the issues over here and not about the huge glaring issues

Starting point is 00:52:29 here and to stand up for Christians around the world who are going to jail and being legitimately persecuted for sharing the gospel and for speaking truth in the face of perversion. I mean, shouldn't they have something to say about that? I don't know. You can tell me if I'm wrong, or maybe you can point me to where they have talked about that and I can be completely off. If that's true, I will retract what I said and I will issue an apology because I don't want to misrepresent. maybe I'm completely wrong about that. But I think Tucker, again, makes a valid point about the silence of those people who have a lot of time to spare for the issues that get them articles in the New York Times and the Atlantic. All right.

Starting point is 00:53:27 That's all we have time for today. There were so much, so many other things I wanted to talk about. I feel like I have so much to catch up on that Hershey's women's ad. that included a guy who will talk about it. We'll talk about it sometime this week. We got a lot of ground to cover this week. A lot of ground to cover. So if there's anything in particular, you want to hear us cover on this show.

Starting point is 00:53:50 Please let us know. Also, if you love this show, give us a five-star review wherever you listen. That would mean so much to us. Also, subscribe on YouTube. We've got some new fun stuff coming up. We've got new merch. We've even got a new set. We've got a whole new look just for relatable listeners.

Starting point is 00:54:07 I'm so excited about it. All right. Thank you guys so much for listening. We will be back soon. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Alley, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality.

Starting point is 00:54:33 We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 766 | The Gospel Coalition’s Scandalous Sex Article

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