Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 771 | "Why Do I Keep Sinning?" | Guest: Jonathan Pokluda

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Today we’re joined by Jonathan “JP” Pokluda, pastor of Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco, Texas, and author of “Why Do I Do What I Don’t Want to Do?” to discuss the book as well as a few other things. First, JP explains his approach to preaching and the rigorous process he goes through to make sure that the sermons he prepares are the best that they can be. Preaching in Waco presents its own challenges and opportunities, since there are many college students who live there. JP talks about how he approaches speaking to young adult congregations. Then, what is sin and how should we think about it? We dive into the intricacies of sin and how our fleshly desires can rule over us if we're not staying aware. We also discuss the idea of authenticity – both good and bad – and how Christians need to submit both authenticity and autonomy in order for them to be virtues. Near the end of the interview, JP also poses a pointed question: What do you think happens after you die? And if you think you're going to heaven, how sure are you? --- Timecodes: (01:20) Interview with JP begins (03:45) How do you prepare sermons? (08:35) Sin (21:21) Pursuing good instead of sin (24:52) Authenticity (30:14) Discipline & self-sacrifice (36:06) Is freedom from sin possible? (39:10) The gospel (45:25) Show update! --- Today's Sponsors: A'Del — go to adelnaturalcosmetics.com and enter promo code "ALLIE" for 25% off your first order! EdenPURE — when you buy one Thunderstorm you get one FREE, this week only! Go to EdenPureDeals.com, use promo code 'ALLIE'! My Patriot Supply — prepare yourself for anything with long-term emergency food storage. Get $200 of survival gear when you buy a Three-Month Emergency Food Kit when you go to PrepareWithAllie.com. Nefarious — catch the psychological thriller (based on the book by Steve Deace) that deals with the true nature of good and evil, out April 14 nationwide. Watch the trailer now at whoisnefarious.com. --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 405 | Glorifying God Through Singleness & Dating | Guest: Jonathan Pokluda https://apple.co/42626Tc --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Stee Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. For I know that nothing good dwells in me. That is in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good that I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. That is Romans 718. And my friend, J.P., Jonathan Pekluta, he just wrote a new book about this called Why Do What I Don't Want to Do? And it is about the process of pursuing holiness, sanctification, why we as Christians continue to choose sin when we know Jesus has something better for us and how we exchange

the vices in our lives for virtues. This is going to be an extremely encouraging conversation. you are going to love what J.P. has to say. The episode is brought to you, as always, by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use promo code Alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com Code Alley. JP, thanks so much for joining me. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here. Yeah. Can you tell everyone who might not know, maybe they didn't catch the last episode that you were on with me or maybe they don't follow you on Instagram yet, who you are and what you do? Sure. So Jonathan Picluda, JP for short, was part of a church called Watermark Community Church.

And specifically for most of that time, served in a ministry called The Porch, which was targeted toward young adults. And four years ago, our family was called to serve with a church in Waco, a 144-year-old Baptist Church in the country called Harris Creek. And so we've been there for four years and, you know, pastor and author and all the fun things. All that good stuff. Dad, three kids. Yeah, that's probably the biggest thing, the most significant. thing. Been married to my wife Monica for 18 years and we have three kids, our youngest son and then two daughters. Yeah. And you know, you have had such an impact, not just on me, but also other people

that work for this show. We were texting about it last night and one of the girls was like, oh my gosh, this is going to be such a big moment for me because actually when she came to Christ, you were really the first pastor that she listened to. And I have a lot of friends like that, JP, because God has given you a really unique gift to break down the gospel and complicate. theological topics in a way that is relatable, that is relevant, but I think most importantly, easy to understand. That was certainly true for me. When I was in high school, people knew, no, I grew up in Dallas. And I started going to the porch and I started listening to you. And I was like, wow, I've never heard someone explain the gospel like this. Like, this actually captivates

my attention is interesting to me. So just thank you. You're so kind to say that. I didn't do well in school. And so like I don't feel like that's my like the classroom is my strong suit. And so I try to explain things. I'm an auditory learner and a visual learner. And this message of Jesus dying for our sins and raising from the dead is the greatest story ever told. And I think here we can get inoculated to it. So we just kind of hear it everywhere. So we never really hear it. And so when you really sit down with someone and you say, listen, there was a great exchange that happened here. This is what God did for you because he loves you so much. And once a relationship. relationship with you. You see people's, the light bulb go off and their heart respond to that. And that's most fun. And we're here to talk about your book, but I am interested. So you were the head of the porch at Watermark and now you're a lead pastor. Tell me what goes into preparing your sermons. How do you come up with the stories, the metaphors that you do? How do you decide this is how I'm going to explain this passage? I love that. I just threw that on you. I appreciate. that because it's one of my favorite things to talk about. And there's, I'll start here and say,

there's a big movement in the church world of planting. And that's necessary and biblical. And we see that. But where I am geographically, there are a lot of churches. And so something that I'm passionate about is church revitalization. And the way that we're focused on that is not necessarily planting. Like so many churches don't want to lose their resources. Well, we're trying to grow a place where we raise up leaders, pastors, preachers, and teachers that we would lose them, that other churches would hire them away. And so to answer your question, preparation starts on Monday. We get in a room at 2 o'clock, and it's a team effort, and we say, okay, it depends. The conversation can start a number of places.

Hey, where are we going next? What series are we in? Are we in? Or are we teaching through a book of the Bible? I always teach a scripture. And so even if someone says, oh, that's a topical message, if you look at the quote unquote, We take a passage and we break that passage down and so there's a passage that deals with the topic But if we're going through a book like Philippians or James or something like that

So we'll take the the scripture we'll read together we'll say hey what is the subject and then I follow an outline image subject need preview text summary conclusion And so we try to fill in those blanks if we can I leave there do the theological work Tuesday Wednesday Thursday that's just kind of reading commentaries, understanding what other people have said about the text, sitting with the text, praying through the text, and then really seeing the world through the lens of that subject so that you, oh, man, that's a great way to explain that. Oh, that just lived that conversation with the server. Oh, this is something my kids just did. Oh, this is a story I just remembered.

That will help that text come alive. And so when I say image, what I mean by that is like an opening illustration that leads to the subject that identifies the need here, why this is important, that goes to a preview, here's the map of where we're headed into the text, explaining the text, teaching the text, illustrating the text to a summary, this is what I told you to a conclusion, which is a closing illustration. And so that's kind of the map. You kind of got your template. What's different, I think what we do is then I give a run through Thursday at 3 p.m. So I give the sermon to a panel of critics. And who's the panel of critics? And so it's, it's kind of just different. So it's not just elders. It's. It's.

Oh, no, no, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, I want an, an older female there. I want a younger female there. Um, I want, uh, you know, somebody that's kind of the theology junky, if you will, the theologian. I want them there. And so we get a, it's a diverse group, different people bringing different things to the table. They give that message a grade one to a hundred, 70s passing, and why? And then page by page. Wow. Wow. Have you ever gotten a failing grade and you're like, oh my gosh, I thought that this was going to be the best sermon of my life. You know. That'd be kind of tough.

I mean, in real life, I feel like a lot of times for preaching you, you'll get a sense that, man, that crushed it. And so it's like, man, everybody's going to want to talk afterwards. And no one's there. It's a ghost town. Yeah. And then at times I've been like, oh, that was really bad. And people come up and like, hey, what do I got to do to give my life to Jesus? Yeah.

She's like, what the world is the work of the spirit. Yeah. And then you realize it's just not about you. Supernatural. I love that it's a team effort. I wonder how often someone tells you something and you're like, wow, I had totally gotten that wrong or I thought that passage was about that and it wasn't about that. I feel like that would happen to me a lot. Other people are just.

Or even more than that is just like, hey, that wasn't clear. What you wanted to say there didn't come across. So you get that all the time. And sometimes it will happen where it's like, hey, I think this is a cross reference to this. Or have you considered that he might be saying this because of this cultural context? For example, I just taught the passage out of John Jesus is the light of the world. And I didn't realize that week was the Feast of the Tabernacles, which would have had these four lamps and not to bore your listeners with theology like that. But it was, you know, someone said that.

It was like, hey, did you realize the Feast of the Tabernacles was happening right there? And I was like, oh, I didn't. Yeah. And that kind of sent me down a rabbit trail of study. Yeah. Something that you talk about in every sermon, which it sounds crazy to say, but it's true that a lot of pastors are scared to talk about. sin. But you talk about sin or mention sin. I mean, every time I've heard you preach, and that's really kind of what your book is about, not just sin, but vices, virtues. Why do I do what I don't want to do?

Why is it important to talk about sin? Because it does seem like some pastors think that they can share the gospel without talking about that negative part that scares people away. Well, I might talk about it so much because I'm really, really good at it. Yeah. It seems naturally what my flesh wants to do all the time. But it is where the gospel starts in a sense, or it's a very core part to the gospel is that we need a savior. And the reason we need a savior is because we have, you know, metaphorically this disease of sin.

We need someone to cure us like the Israelites in the wilderness who have been bitten by the fiery serpents, the venomous serpents. And they had to look at something in order to live. And without looking at that thing that's bronze serpent raised up in the wilderness, they would die. Well, that is us. If we do not look, if we do not call upon the name of Jesus, if we do not trust in his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of our sins, then we are destined to die a terrible eternal death.

And so it's like when you think about sales and my past life is business development in the corporate world, you think about creating a need. Well, we don't need a need created. Like, we are sinners and we need a cure. Like, we have a disease. We are dying. It is terminal. And we need someone to come with us and say, hey, this is the way out. This is the way to life.

And so I think you're right. I don't know why we don't talk about sin enough. I think it makes people uncomfortable. But it's a little bit of a no, duh, like, yes, I'm a sinner. Anybody who, you know, if they think about it long enough, and they audit their own thoughts and even their actions and their words and their deeds and their desires, they're going to get to a place like, oh yeah, there's something in me that's not good for me. Like, why do I do what I don't want to do?

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed,

you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. I think maybe it was you that I first heard define sin as missing the mark or somewhere outside the bull And I think what becomes difficult is when moral relativism is so pervasive today that we kind of deny that there even is a mark, that there even is a boundary. And so convincing people that, you know, what you're doing, even though it feels really good, even though it feels authentic to you and you think that you're just fulfilling your dreams, it's actually wrong because there is a moral standard that you're not meeting. How have you approached? You're in Waco. That's a college town.

I'm sure a lot of young people kind of have that mentality of what even is sin. The only sin is saying that they're set. The only sin is being judgmental towards other people. Like how do you kind of convince someone? No, there's a standard and you're never going to get it by yourself. That's right. That's the whole message of Christ in the sermon of the mountain. So sin is originally an archery term, meaning missing the mark, missing the bull's eye.

And it really is like sometimes I'll run this experiment with people. I'll say, hey, as we sit here for an hour or 30 minutes, how many times do you think you're going to sin? And if there's a group of people, it's really interesting. I say, I want you to think of your number and then let's talk about it. And some people will say two. Some people will say zero. Some people will say 100. And I'm like, well, it's our existence is fallen.

So we're constantly thinking about how to please people, which is sin, you know, operating out of pride, which is sin. And so if we can start with this idea of like, oh, I am drowning and I cannot save myself, there is nothing, there is no stronghold around that I can grasp. to keep my head above water. And I need someone to come after me and save me. And, you know, and when you can paint that, that picture for people. And so to address like moral relativism, often what I'll do is I'll just say, hey, I want you to close your eyes. And if I'm talking to somebody, and I'll say, I want you to take a good pointer finger. And I just, all I want you to do right now, you've lived in this world for a long time, I just want you to point north. And it's Funny, sometimes people will point straight up.

Yeah. It's not north. And, you know, they'll try. Yeah. No one in the history of doing that has pointed due north ever. Really? I mean, even someone that points generally that direction, if they're just a bit off, you know, if you go due north, you're going to hit Canada.

If you're just a bit off, you won't. I mean, it's when you're talking about traveling a great length. And so it's this same idea of like, hey, your truth can be that there's no gravity and that you can fly. But if you take that elevator to the 23rd floor and you jump off that building, no matter how hard you flap your arms, the reality of gravity is going to overwhelm you. And it's not going to go well for you. So if I come and say, hey, gravity is a real thing. And you say, hey, that's unloving because it's inconvenient. Right.

And I'm saying, no, I'm trying to save your life. Right. I'm trying to turn you from a way that leads to death. The proverb says twice. There's a way that seems right to someone. but in the end it leads to death. Such a wise word for us that there's something that feels right. There's something that we sense is right.

But if we pursue that direction, it can lead to death. And so our feelings are very, very real, but our feelings are not always reliable. They're certainly not the most often not the most reliable thing that we say, which is counter to what culture would say when we says things like Selena Gomez, the heart wants what it wants or follow. your heart, listen to you, listen to your heart, you know, all these things that we've heard on the radio. And it's like, well, I really want something more reliable than my heart because even if I look back on my dating relationships before marriage, I'm like, you know, my heart led me into a lot of

bad relationships and a lot of bad decisions. So I really need to find something more reliable or at least something that I can test it against. Yeah. And this is, I mean, this is not a new problem. I know we talk about secular progressivism or moral relativism as if it fits. It's a phenomenon in this generation and it's not. It's obviously been written about for a long time. I mean, in some ways it goes all the way back to the garden. Eve did what felt good to her in the moment because she replaced the God of Scripture with the God of self, which is the same thing that happens today.

But that temptation doesn't end, unfortunately, even after we become Christian. So we realize we're sinners. We realize that sin is bad, that it's leading us to death, that we've missed the mark, that we need someone to wipe our slate clean, justify us, before God. We got all this stuff. We understand the gospel. Now we have this new desire to no longer sin, to no longer be enslaved to that, but to be enslaved to Christ and to pursue righteousness. And yet, like, why do we find ourselves still tripping up? Like, why do I find myself losing patience when I don't want to lose patience? Why do I find myself wanting to gossip when I know

I would not want to be gossiped about? Like, tell us, why do we do the things that we don't want to do even after we become Christians. Some would say because you're not enough. Yeah. Gosh. Oh my goodness. Someone should write a book about that. That's brilliant.

You need a good book about that. There's a question I've been asked. And even I've asked myself in studies, we know that the Holy Spirit gives us a new heart, a heart of flesh, not a heart of stone. That he lives with us and influences us toward that, which is good for us and gives us life. And so someone said, well, can we trust our regenerate heart? And when we talk about our heart, we're not obviously not talking about the organ that pumps blood. We're talking about the gut, the moral compass of a person.

You know, if your thoughts are stored in your mind, then your feelings are stored in your heart. And I said, well, can we trust the regenerate heart? And it's sure, we can trust the spirit of God, but the degenerate heart is always with us under the sun, meaning there's always going to be a part of our flesh, no matter where we're at in the sanctification process until we're glorified before God with Christ, there's always going to be a part of our flesh that the enemy can seek to entice us to hurt us. Satan understands that, I mean, I'm crazy enough to buy into this narrative that there is a God, creator of all things, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and there's an enemy who is a demon and leads a demonic army. And we live in this and it's not dualism. It's not like they are equal and opposing forces. God is the God of even Satan. He's sovereign.

He's in control. And we're in the midst of and people don't like when I say this. But it helps me understand kind of a cosmic experiment of who. And the scripture doesn't say that word, but it helps me understand it. Who are we going to worship? Are we going to go the way of the little G God of this world, the prince of this air? or are we going to worship the creator, the heavens of the earth, the one that we were made to be in relationship with?

And so this little G. God of this world, Satan, is going to appeal to our flesh in the same way that, you know, I can bribe my three-year-old when I had a three-year-old and say, hey, if you eat that, I'll take you, if you eat the broccoli, I'll take you to get ice cream. And that which they didn't want to do a second ago, they say, okay, I'm willing to do that. Well, the enemy can work the same way. He can say, hey, if you cheat there, I'll give you all of these things. Or if you will compromise in that situation, I will allow you to experience this level of pleasure. And we continue to fall for it, just like Adam and Eve did in the garden.

You know, it's like, hey, certainly you will not die. You will become like God. You know, you will know all things. You should eat of it. It's delicious. Try it. He's trying to keep good from you. It's the same lie that he will tell everyone who hears this right now today, he's going to say,

God is trying to withhold good from you. And as my friend says, he does not want to rip you off. He desires to set you free. God does not desire to rip us off. He wants to set us free. And life is always going to be found in him. I think that after you become a Christian and after you've been a Christian for a little while, you can almost trick yourself into thinking that you're not sinful or not as simple as those other people.

because maybe you're not committing the big sins. Like, you know, you're not going to commit adultery or you haven't committed adultery. You're not, you know, getting drunk, doing drugs, things like that. And so you can kind of put on this appearance of holiness and even convince yourself. But then I think sometimes when we look even closer, you're like, what are the things I'm thinking about?

Like, did I snap at my husband for no reason? I mean, those are just as much missing the mark as those big things. And like you talk about in your book, not just getting rid of those big vices, but trading the vices for things. that actually characterize even the things that we think and say the so-called small sense, humility, forgiveness, sobriety, generosity, diligent, self-control, authenticity. I'm interested to hear you explain that one.

Rest, optimism, and gratitude. So it's not enough just to say, okay, we're going to try really, really hard not to sin, even with the power of the Holy Spirit. How do we pursue those things in every little thing that we think can do? Yeah. John 1010 says, you know, the enemy comes to, steal, kill, and destroy, but I, meaning Jesus, have come so that you might have life and have it to the fullest. I think we've taken that and reversed it. And there's an entire generation

coming up saying, well, the church desires to steal, kill, and destroy. They want to steal my fun and kill my good time and destroy my relationships where I have experienced this pleasure in. And Jesus came so that he would give us a bunch of rules. I think that's how a lot of young people look at religion, Christianity, and the church in general. And I said, but that's not what Jesus said. And he could have said anything right there. And he's saying something really key. He's saying, no, I've come to give you life. Like I think about the rich young ruler. He had the opportunity of a lifetime. He could have been the 13th disciple. He could have been someone we name our children after like John, you know, or Matthew. Yeah, now we don't even know his name. We don't even know his

Just three adjectives that describe him. Rich, young and a ruler. He's no longer rich. He's no longer young and he's not ruling anything, right? He missed out because he said, hey, this, this thing that's gripping me is too strong. And so he's sitting there and he's like, okay, what do I, what do I not do? What do I not do? And Jesus is saying, no, this is what I'm calling you to.

Follow me. I'm calling you to an abundant full. life, not asking you to just not be prideful, but I'm calling you to humility, not asking you just not to be greedy or materialistic. I'm calling you to generosity. And when you, you know what, you know what's fun? You know what's more fun than being greedy? Being generous. There's more life there. And I think somewhere this message was lost within the church that Jesus is not trying to steal your fun. He's not trying to hurt your good time. And in a lot of of ways he's trying to give you those things but it has to be we have to live this life with the

right mindset which is an eternal mindset that we're here for just a bit and then we're going to be with god forever and ever and ever never never which is a really long time yeah tell me a little bit more about authenticity this is a virtue that you say that we're supposed to pursue i think there's good authenticity and bad authenticity so tell us kind of what you talk about in your book yeah i want to hear your thoughts on bad authenticity. But here's kind of the heart behind that. As the church is building in the book of Acts, the Acts of the Apostles, you just see this powerful movement after Acts 2, the Holy Spirit comes. And it's like 3,000 people were added to the number. 5,000 people were added. Peter preached the gospel. Peter preached the gospel and thousands gathered. And the

church is just growing in the momentum like day after day is like thousands were at it, thousands were at it, thousands were at it. And you get to Acts chapter 5 and it's like someone slams on the break. They just like pull the parking brake. And there's this couple, Ananias and Safira. And what happens is they see Barnabas sell some land and get the money and bring it to the apostles' feet. And everybody claps and plods and says, oh man, Barney, he's the guy. You know, let's be like him. And so Ananias and Safira, they say, hey, we want that. We want that appraise of man. We want to feel that way. And so let's sell a field. Let's bring the money, but let's hold some back for ourselves and says they lied. I think their motive in lying was an effort to manage perception, right? And there's so

many of us, especially in the age of social media, where we're trying to manage what people think of us. Well, this is different than the level of authenticity that the scripture calls us to, that we are children of the light, that we're to walk in the light, that we're not to hide. Whoever, whoever conceals their sin does not prosper. Whoever hides their sin does not prosper. And so a lot of times I think even today in, you know, the 21st century, I think we think in terms of, I hear this word a lot in pastoral ministry, confidentiality. Confidentiality. We want to experience, you know, can I tell you this confidentially.

I think a lot of times by that word, and not always, but often we mean secrecy. Hey, there are things that I want to keep a secret. And what I experience a lot, Allie, in pastoral ministry, is someone says, hey, I can't share my story. But what I see in Revelation 12 is that the enemy is defeated by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony. And so if I'm Satan, what I'm going to try to get you to do is to not share your story, to not tell anyone. those things. And so that's what I mean by authenticity is to get to this place where you're like, hey, this is who I am. This is what I've done. But it doesn't own me. God set me free from that. And I'm going to be honest. And I'm not going to manipulate people. I'm not going to be like a,

you know, a deceiver, a schemer. Yeah. But I'm going to be honest. Yeah. I think that's so true that we curate our image and our appearance on social media. And you could do that so well. You can convince someone that you are a completely different person than you actually are. And God does free us because our identity isn't in that. It's not even in who we really are or how we feel. It's in something better. I talk about in my book, the kind of trap of elevating authenticity and autonomy to your highest values because like if you look at those words and just like the etymology of those words, it's got that auto in there, which means self. And so authenticity, autonomy, you're in charge of yourself, you're being yourself. When those are your highest values, when they're not submitted to

obedience to Christ, then they justify sin. Autonomy, well, I have bodily autonomy. I can do whatever I want with my body, even if it means sacrificing my child. Authenticity, well, I'm just being myself. And this is how I want to identify. This is what feels good. This is what I'm going to follow. So we're saying the same thing that you have to submit authenticity and autonomy, which can both be really good things to Christ in order for them to be virtuous. Which I think is a, you know, you raise up a great point in an area. I know we agree a ton on and I'm so thankful for your book for this reason is just the obsession with self right now.

And I think that's one of the reasons to go back to your first question why we don't like to talk about sin. Yeah. Because we want to be our own God. And that's what made the devil the devil, you know, that whole narrative. He said, hey, I don't want to worship you as God. I want to be a God. I want to be worshipped.

Yeah, you're right. And I mean, just as much as it was a lie, then it's a lie today. And gosh, he knew so much about the human heart that it's not really that we just want to do things that feel good. It's not really that we want that pleasure. That's the kind of thing that's in front of what is behind all sin is that we really want to be God. It's not just a lie either. It's satanic. And again, sometimes people are.

put off by that word, but I mean it in the most literal sense. Yeah. Like it is, it is the desire and the emotion and the drive of Satan. Like he, he doesn't, like the opposite of worshiping God is not worshiping the devil. The opposite of worshiping God is worshiping yourself. And that's what the enemy's after. He's not trying to get you to worship him. He's trying to get you to worship you.

Yeah. You include this, you include this quote by Eugene Peterson. in your introduction, and I just really love it. This is from his book, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction. Sorry, I'm reading a quote from someone else's book instead of yours. There is a great market for religious experience in our world. There's little enthusiasm for the patient acquisition of virtue, little inclination to sign up for a long apprenticeship,

and what earlier generations of Christians called holiness. So there may even be a desire for salvation. I think sanctification is kind of what scares people away sometimes from Christian. Christianity. That's the hard part. That's the sacrifice. Why do you think that is? Yeah, we want things quick. And so we want, we want the fast, like, quick fix, you know, the microwavable, Christian life. And we don't like the reality that there are trials and tribulations, situations, and circumstances that the Holy Spirit can use to conform us to the image and the character of his, of Jesus. I think that, you know, the scripture says to discipline your for godliness. Well, I don't like discipline. I don't even enjoy being disciplined. The nature of discipline is that you have to apply yourself. What happens, I think, often is we sit with the word and we don't enjoy it so we don't do it because if it doesn't feel good, it must be wrong. And this kind of goes against, it's counterintuitive to this idea that, no, we're to do hard

things. Like just because something's difficult doesn't mean it's wrong. Just because it's hard and not enjoyable doesn't mean that it's the wrong thing. And so that there is a spiritual growth and the same, I mean, the physical metaphor works so well. It's like to go into the gym and to push up against things and to strain and to sweat produces something. In the same way, godliness, as we discipline ourselves for godliness, we seek to understand the word. We spend, long contemplative time and prayer, you know, I think so often we overestimate what we can do with long obedience in the same direction. I'm sorry, we underestimate what we can do with long obedience in the same direction, and we overestimate just this kind of quick fix mentality.

Like, hey, what can I do tomorrow? And I see that for sure in a generation. I don't mean to attack Gen Z. I'm very hopeful as I look at the future of the church. But there are things. that we have to monitor and address and work hard to change. Yeah, we have to actively fight against all of the things that the culture tells us our virtues. Because really, like, even me, so I graduated from high school in 2010. We started getting iPhones and like, you know, 2008. We had MySpace, social media, maybe in middle school. So even for my generation, so much more for Generation Z, everything really has been about us.

Everything, I mean, I had an About Me section. And every valuable possession that I owned had a little eye in front of it. So everything has been centered on us. Our feelings. What Disney Princess are you? What aneagram number are you? Everything is about us. And so this idea that no, actually self-sacrifice is a good thing.

It's not something to avoid actually waiting for something. Ooh, that's tough. That's hard for me. I'm used to just opening my Amazon app and getting exactly what I want tomorrow. And so, I mean, that is something that may be, I know every generation in a lot of ways, Like we deal with the same wickedness and the same evil and it's the same gospel, the same Holy Spirit. So we can contend with these things.

But in some ways, we do have unique challenges because we have to fight so hard against this instant gratification culture that is just ubiquitous. It's almost completely inescapable. It's the air we breathe. Yeah. It's everywhere. And I think we have to understand that if life is a movie, you know, we have a cameo. Man, we are on the screen for three seconds, right?

It's not, the movie's not about us, right? We can't go and leave and tell everyone. It's like, hey, go see the movie. It's about me. I'm the star. The whole movie, the whole movie's about someone else. And you have a cameo. And really, I think about the role John the Baptist played a lot.

He just pointed to someone greater than him. And that's our role. We're here for a second and we're pointing to someone greater than us. And that's a life well lived. But what's the enemy going to try to do is try to give it. No, no, no, it's about you. It's the I life. So we know that we keep sitting, that we struggle with selfishness and all of these things,

even after we are Christians. However, it is possible to be free from some addictions and from some sin patterns. So I don't want people to hear us say, well, you're just going to sin no matter what. Just pray about it. It's possible to be free from your porn addiction, free from your anger addiction, and whatever it is, right? So that was my story, right? So I was a struggle with porn, pornography, you know,

it wouldn't even said struggle. I mean, it wasn't a struggle. I had given myself to it. I was enslaved to it when I, and then, and sexual addiction, but not just that. I mean, drug use, alcoholism, materialism, narcissism, like all of those things marked my life. And then I come, I'm at a club 20 years ago

and someone invited me to church. I went hung over, sat in the back row. I smelled like smoke from the night before. And I start to wrestle with, all right, what do I really believe about God? Because I always said I was a Christian, but I've always done what I wanted to do. Well, now I'm in the church. I become, I trust in Jesus. I believe upon him.

The Holy Spirit comes in my life and begins to do this makeover. But it wasn't easy. I mean, some things were easy. But I'll tell you, I was able, like drugs, I was able to pick up drugs, set them down. Cussing. Like that went away overnight. Pornography? No way.

Like it grit me. so strongly. And I find that for a lot of people that that is an addiction that is different, like uniquely challenging to give up compared to other addictions. Yeah, because of the accessible nature, if nothing else, just the human mind, how powerful it is. So I don't have to go to a dealer and score some heroin or ecstasy or, you know, cocaine. Yeah, it's, it's all right here.

And so, so I had, you know, James 516 says to confess your sins to each. other again and that's what I mean by authenticity confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed for the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective and so he's saying hey there's a there's a healing that only comes by way of confession and prayer and not just your own prayer but having others pray for you and yeah I would say there there is hope to anyone like I I've counseled hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people through addiction and I and I and I would say that I look back on my own life and I was like, man, I was really comparatively, really enslaved to sin. But I found freedom. And I say that to give, you know, your listeners

hope wherever you're at. Step one, raise your hand. Say, hey, I need help. I'm not enough to overcome this. I need someone, others to come in and help me through this. Yeah. And this is something I ask some of my guests. And I mean, you've shared it in a million different ways already during this episode, but if you, if someone's listening, because there are a lot of, most people who listen, they're Christian women, Christian moms, but there are always people listening, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, maybe they think they're Christian, but they're really not or they're scared to go to church. What is the gospel? Yeah, love it. I love, I love it. You know, I would ask your listeners, like, there's a question I really like to reflect on. And it's just this, you know, if I believe in heaven

and hell, I believe in eternal destination, what do I think? how certain am I that I'm gonna be with God forever? And you can even put a percentage on that. Am I 90% certain? Am I 80? Some people are like, well, I'm pretty certain. I'm 90% sure. And then the second question is you reflect upon that,

listeners, watchers, viewers. The second question is, if I stood before God and he said, why should I let you in, what would you say? And so often we point to, well, because I went to church, because I did good things, because I tried hard. The gospel is the story of God getting his children back, of God sending his son, Jesus Christ, into this world as the representation of a human.

He was completely human, fully human, fully God. He lived a perfect life for 33 years. He was completely innocent. He did nothing wrong, but they killed him. They crucified him, humiliated on the side of a road, nailed the two pieces. is a wood and that was a payment for my sins. God said, hey, it is finished. My wrath, my anger towards your sins is completely satisfied on my son. So I am free to just love you. You do not eternally have to pay for your sins they've been paid for. The only thing that anybody can do in

hell, if you believe that there's only two places, the only thing that anybody can do in hell is pay for their sins forever. So the only person who does doesn't go to hell is the person whose sins have been paid for. And people say, well, that's really exclusive. It's the most inclusive religion out there. Jesus with his arms out wide says, hey, come, this was for you. You just have to trust in the payment. I've set the money down on the table. You just have to pick it up. It's like if I give somebody tickets to the, to the Cowboys game, and 50 yard line, great tickets, great seats, and they go there to AT&T Stadium and they get stopped at the gate and somebody says, hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, why should we let you in? They're going to say,

because I have tickets. And if they say, well, did you pay for the tickets? They're going to say, no, they were a gift. That's heaven. Like God says, whoa, why should I let you in? You shouldn't. I'm a sinner. But you paid my way in through your son. That's the good news. You, holy God, paid my way in through your son, Jesus Christ. And the same spirit that raised him from the dead lives with me or can live with me if I place my faith in Christ, I can have access to the same spirit who raised Christ from the dead to help me navigate this world so that I'm not just relying on my heart. I'm not just following my feelings, but at every situation and every decision, I'm saying, all right, Lord, what would you have me do? How would you have me respond? What would you

have me say? How would you have me love? And he'll tell you, he'll help you in and through that. Thank you. I love it. And even. And even, the even the picking up the tickets we can't even take credit for that even that the faith that it takes to pick up the tickets is actually a gift from god as aphesians too tells us so even that is powered by the holy spirit we get to take credit for no part of our salvation which is comforting i'm so glad that i don't get to take credit for it because then i'm afraid that i'll mess it up yeah whereas by grace you have been saved through faith this is not of yourself it's the gift of god not by works so no one boast. Yep. And my last question, so really, we have to, we have to finish. It's a very serious question.

And I have never, I've never met someone with this, but I've been, I've seen it on social media. I've seen pictures of it. I've been waiting for someone to see someone with a mullet. And you have one. You have a mullet. And I've seen a lot of the young folk. I'm old. I'm 31. It's kind of a baby mullet, though. It's a little bit, but it's, it has been a full-blown mullet. Has it not? No, no, I'm trying. I'm trying to get there. Okay.

I'm like, oh, you're working on it? I'm headed that direction. You're working. Is it called flow? Did people still call it that? Is that what it is? So Monica hated it. And then, and so I really, like this week, I was going to go and just go back to the old school fade.

And then the day before she goes, you know, I kind of like your curls. And I'm like, all I need it. Okay. That's all you needed. Now you can just grow it out. So we're going to, yeah, we're going to see where it goes. It's pretty amazing how transatlose. happened. I didn't know what you were going to say. I was like, where is she? What does she see on social?

Yeah. I think you're the first guest on Relatable with the Mullet. So it's an honor. Hey, well, thank you. The honor is all mine. Thank you so much. Hey, pastor in the front, college student in the back. I like it. I like it. J.P., thanks so much. Everyone go out and to get his book. Why do I do what I don't want to do? The question that all of us are constantly asking ourselves. It's out now. It's out. It got out yesterday. It went out yesterday. So Amazon, all that good stuff. Come on. Anywhere books are All right. Thank you so much. Thank you, friend. I appreciate you so much. Okay, guys, hope you enjoyed that conversation. Reminders we talked about yesterday,

new set next week, new stuff, new music, new merch, a giveaway. And I've got an announcement. It's going to be a great episode. I think it's going to be next Monday. I am a little bit hesitant to make that promise because we've got a lot to get done in the next few days. I think we're going to do it. But definitely sometime next week. Now, I've already gotten a disappointed message from at least one of you, probably there's more of these than I've seen, but I know some of you are sad that we're changing the music because you and your kids, like this particular message was like, my toddler and I dance to this music every day. I know. Look, that makes me sad too, but I do think that it's time for a refresh. So you'll be able to dance to the new music too. Now, if you'll absolutely

hate it, if you're like, that is the worst music that I've ever heard, then you can let me know. Now, also just understand that you might, you're not going to like it at first because it's going to be an adjustment. But really try to think if you like the new stuff that we have. And then I'll take your feedback. I'll take it under advisement. All right. That's all we've got time for today.

We will be back. Ooh, I'm excited about tomorrow's episode. Tomorrow's episode's episode's going to be a big one. All right. I'll see you guys then. Hey, this is Steve Daste. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed,

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