Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 806 | Justice for Maple: A Story of Pit Bulls & Political Corruption | Guest: Holly Simon

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Today we're talking to Holly Simon of Lawrence and Louise about a tragic pit bull attack that left her beloved cow Maple dead and the city corruption that unraveled following the incident. Holly shares the harrowing story of finding Maple dead in a lake and seeing the dogs run off, as well as the dog owners' refusal to take responsibility. Now, thanks to corrupt city prosecutor Rita Watkins, they continue to go unpunished, and one of their deadly dogs is still free to continue to terrorize their neighborhood. We take a look at why this is not an isolated incident when it comes to pit bulls and give you the opportunity to help this family seek justice not just for themselves, but for their community.  You can email the Fort Smith Board of Directors here: [e-mail] You can email Carl Geffken directly here: [e-mail] --- Timecodes: (01:30) Intro (06:30) The attack (15:40) Confronting dog owners (28:50) Evidence (36:08) Dog owners' link to city prosecutor (39:42) Ongoing process / holding people accountable (43:25) Racial accusation (47:21) What now? (55:12) Pit bull recap --- Today's Sponsors: EdenPURE — when you buy one Thunderstorm you get one FREE, this week only! Go to EdenPureDeals.com, use promo code 'ALLIE'! Good Ranchers — get $30 OFF your box today at GoodRanchers.com – make sure to use code 'ALLIE' when you subscribe. You'll also lock in your price for two full years with a subscription to Good Ranchers! Epic Will — be intentional about your family, your values and your wishes. Go to EpicWill.com/ALLIE and you’ll save 10% on your complete Will package. Quinn's Goat Soap — goat soap smells amazing and feels great on your skin, and unlike other soaps it cleans and moisturizes at the same time. Go to QPGoatSoap.com and use code “ALLIE” for 10% off your order. --- Links: Daily Mail: "Adorable pet Highland cow called Maple drowns after killer dogs chased her into pond - and their glamorous realtor owners are arrested for refusing to hand them over" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11994935/Adorable-pet-cow-called-Maple-drowns-neighbors-pit-bull-dog-chased-pond.html Today in Fort Smith: "City prosecutor under fire for refusal to issue search warrants after dogs kill pet calf on Monday" https://www.todayinfortsmith.com/post/city-prosecutor-under-fire-for-refusal-to-issue-search-warrants-after-dogs-kill-pet-calf-on-monday NY Post: "Mom hospitalized after her 2 kids killed in pit bull attack" https://nypost.com/2022/10/07/tennessee-mom-kirstie-jane-bennard-hospitalized-after-her-2-kids-killed-in-pit-bull-attack/ 13 WTHR: "Marion County sheriff's deputy killed, 8-year-old son injured by dog attack in east Indianapolis home" https://www.wthr.com/article/news/local/adult-dies-child-injured-dog-bite-east-indianapolis/531-fc737e97-5c7f-43f6-bbdd-76eab7cb0fad Pit bull stats: https://www.dogsbite.org/ --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 691 | Pit Bulls & a Message to Christian Schools https://apple.co/3pFh0B3 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Horror struck an Arkansas farm when two pit bulls mauled a family's cattle. And the owners of these dogs refuse to take responsibility. And thanks to a corrupt city prosecutor, these owners still go unpunished and their deadly dog is still free to continue to take. terrorize the neighborhood. You will be on the edge of your seat during the story. And at the end of

this gut-wrenching conversation, you will actually have the opportunity to help this family seek justice, not just for themselves, not just for their own family, but also for their community. This is a really, really important story. I want you to listen closely and also do everything that we can once we give you the information to raise a respectful ruckus, because as we will talk about and explain, this thing really matters. This episode is brought to by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use code All right, Ali at checkout.

That's good ranchers.com. Code All right, Holly, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. Before we get started and we hear your story, can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do? Yeah, so my name is Holly Simon. And I actually live out here in Arkansas. We have 25 acres. And for a long time, we have just been sharing our little farm out here.

And our hobby farm lifestyle, we blog. We do, you know, social media. And that is primarily, you know, where I draw my income, just sharing our lives with people. Yeah. And so you have the 25 acres. You recently, within the past year, bought two cows, correct? Correct. And these are unique cows.

What kind of cows are they? Yeah. So these are very special cows. They're Scottish Highlands. And they're the ones. They've actually become very, very popular. If you go to Hobby Lobby, there's probably 50 paintings of a Scottish Highland. They're the ones with the really pretty long hair.

Generally, they're in all the art at Hobby Lobby. But they're really unique animals. They're for a cow. They're very, as far as if you're going to have a pet, cow, this is the breed. They live longer than most other breeds. they can live 20 plus years. Wow. And they're just super, they're super special, super docile.

Yeah. So very, very special cows. And they're also an investment, right? Because they're not as common in the U.S. as some other, you know, types of cattle here, right? That's correct. They're actually pretty hard to find. If you're looking for a true registered Scottish Highland, they're very hard to find.

And we have people, we have actually a huge waiting list for calves. And we were excited to start that whole process. We were finally almost to the two-year mark. The reason it's hard with Scottish Highlands is they actually even take longer to breed than other cows. They take at least two years because they're so tiny. And that's what makes them very appealing as well is they're very small minis compared to other cows. So very, very hard to find. And when did you get the cows?

So we got Maple, our first Scottish Highlands in October of 2021. So she was coming up on two years this October. And then we had a really awesome situation occur. We actually, her breeder called us last fall, 2022, and said, hey, we just have, we just had her first full blood sister. And she's white. So the dad is white and the mom is red. And it's having a white highland is even.

more rare. And so we actually acquired her full-blooded sister this year in January. And what's her name? Her name is oats. We joked around with our followers. We were looking at this at buying her and just said, you know, we're going to have to eat. I made a joke like we're not to eat oatmeal for at least a year to afford this cow. And so everyone said, you should name her oatmeal. So we just call her oats for short. So you have maple and oats. I'm sure that you got very attached to them. These are the only cows that you guys. have on your property, right? We do have some other cows, but they are not, they're not pets.

These are our, these are the ones that we spend all of our time with. We brush them every day. The girls have trained them. They'll follow you. They'll walk on a lead rope. You can nap with them. I'm not kidding. I have videos on my social media.

You can lay with them, take a little nap with them. Very, very special. So these are our pets. And we'll put up a picture of Maple. We have a sweet picture. they really are. They're just beautiful animals. They seem very gentle and very sweet. I could see why you and your children got attached to them. So tell us the story. I saw this on Instagram. Someone shared it to me because I've talked about these kind of scenarios before, these kinds of tragic scenarios.

Tell us exactly what happened a few weeks ago. Yeah. So the Monday after Easter weekend, we actually had my whole family down all weekend long. All my nieces and nephews were here. And I had actually just saw my sister and all my nieces and nephews off that Monday morning of April 10th. And we were actually just kind of putting our lives back together after a big family weekend. And it was a normal Monday morning. My daughter had some schoolwork. So we had gone into the library, which my home is actually a very long ranch style home. We had put our small mini-dustle. herd with maple and oats. We also have a mini donkey that is named Merle that hangs out with them and loves them. And we had just put them down five days prior into our lower pasture. Our farm,

like I said, is 25 acres. And so we have a big pond down there. And where we were sitting, we were in our library, which is on the complete opposite side of the home. And we were just doing some schoolwork that morning. I was listening to a little speech my daughter was giving because we homeschool And my daughter had gotten up to go to the back to get something. And she came jogging back to the library and said, mom, I hear, it sounds like maple, she specifically said maple, is right outside the house. And I knew that wasn't normal. Cows, if you're around them, you would know that they don't moo, really, unless you're

walking around and they think you have grain, you know, or it's feeding time. They're kind of trained in that sense. So to have a cow not only mooing, but mooing so loudly that one of my daughters thought it was right by the home was very abnormal. So we immediately got up and ran out the front door, which is right by our library. And I heard it. And I turned, the minute I heard it, it was mooing like I've never heard before personally. And we've owned cattle for many years. We owned cattle in Kansas City for five years.

I've never heard moos like this. And so I knew something was very wrong. So did my daughters. And so we ran to the back of the home. And we have a pool that overlooks the entire bottom, lower pasture where we had our miniature herd. And I saw, when I looked, I saw a bunch of commotion on the bank of our pond. And I saw that it was oats, the little sister of Maple, mooing, like her head off, as well as Merle, our little mini donkey. And they were just kind of running in circles.

but I didn't see that's where my eyes went because of the sound and the motion. I didn't see anything else. But my daughter, my youngest daughter, yelled out dogs. And before I could even see what was happening, the girls took off running down through a gate that we have right there. It is a very large hill. It is a very long ways to get to where the incident was happening that I hadn't seen yet. So I just immediately assumed this was a normal country dog situation. And something else that people need to know is that we bought our property in the city.

When we did that, because there's advantages to that rather than just, you know, living way out in the country. We're not out in the middle of the country. We're actually surrounded by very, very nice homes, small little, you know, three, four acre properties. dogs are not an issue out here. We've actually never had dogs on our property before the last six months, which we'll get to that. So I thought this was normal. I thought it was just some country dogs running our cattle, which if you have cattle or you're familiar with that, you know that that alone can cause a lot of problems.

They can run them through fences. But never in my mind did I realize or even did it cross my mind. that these were vicious dogs. I just thought they were country dogs. And so I took off running after the girls, but it's a massive hill. So I'm looking down at my feet, just following the girls thinking

we're just going to scare them off, right? Yeah. And I get halfway down the hill and looked in the pond, and that is when I saw Maple. And my mind was just kind of trying to catch up, you know, when you're in a situation like that, with what is actually happening. Because it's still ongoing.

There's still an emergency, but your brain is also trying to comprehend the facts. And when I saw Maple and the way she was floating, it was just her body, but no head. I knew, you know, my brain is telling me, wait, wait, wait, what is this? What's actually going on here? And I looked and Mia, my girls are very athletic.

They're in the pool five days a week. And so I am not. I am not. I do not run. And so she was already rounding the far side of the bank. And when I'm one of your daughters was. And I just started. Yes. Okay. And so I, my eyes went to her because my brain was obviously like, okay, something is very wrong. These are not normal dogs. And I was afraid at that point. And when I saw her, she was already around the bank. And my middle daughter had stopped as well down at the edge of the pond when she saw Maple because she was like paralyzed but my other daughter kept going and she was almost to where the attack was occurring and that's

when I saw it I saw they had had our other cow under the water and this was our biggest steer that we have this is our biggest one and he was this is not oats this is another it's another this is another one okay so maple just to just to clarify so every Everyone understands what you saw with Maple. And I know it's painful to think about and to talk about. So Maple was floating in the middle of this pond. I guess her head, it wasn't severed, but it was underwater. She was dead.

She was floating there. And you were just trying to take in what actually was happening. At that point, when you saw Maple just floating lifeless in the water, you didn't, did you think at that point the dogs did this? Or were you just like going on adrenaline trying to figure out what in the world was happening? I was definitely going on adrenaline, but at that point, I knew that the dogs killed Maple. And at that moment, my adrenaline, all of the things that flooded me was for my daughter. And I knew it was way too late for me to get to her as well, before a serious damage would have been inflicted to her.

Yeah. And so she was coming down the bank, and I saw the cow come up out of the water. and what was happening is every time the cow would lift his head up out of the water, I saw blood everywhere at that point when he came up out of the water for breath. The dogs would be on, would reattack the face and then it would take him back under. And so he was honestly really on his last. It looked like he was,

he was almost there. Yeah. Yes. Yes. And so Mia, I'm screaming, just screaming like I've never screamed before because I knew, We have an ex-shariff that lives across the street from us.

And oftentimes he will be home. He's not ex. He's retired. But he'll be home and he'll be outside. So I was screaming help because I also knew my neighbor right next to us. Her dad is a lot of the times out in her shop. And so I was thinking maybe someone can hear because I didn't know what to do, Allie. I didn't have a gun.

We were in the situation and we were very much vulnerable. And so I just started screaming and my daughter as she was coming down was waving and yelling and just, you know, making as much bigness as she could with her little body. And that is when the first dog came about of the water and stood and stared at her. And I realized that is a pit bull. I bet you were terrified. I was. When I saw, when I realized that it was a pit bull, I started just crying out in my soul really to God. because I didn't know what to do.

You don't expect that. You know, you just don't. And so the dog stopped. They locked eyes, her, him and my daughter. And then for whatever reason, instead of attacking her, he just took over the bank. And Jedd, you can see our neighbors who own the dogs. You can see their driveway from our property. Like you can see it.

And they just took off. And then the white one that was still attacking the cow, let go. and followed when the black dog took off. And they both ran directly into my neighbor's driveway. And at that point, I kept running. Mia stopped, the one, my daughter who went to the dogs, she ran back up the bank and just stood there and just was watching. And I was very much, if you heard the 911 call,

I have never, ever been in any situation where I've had to call 911 like this. I, I, it, it was the most, I don't know how to describe something like that. You know, if you've never been in a situation like that, it's very hard to talk and to process your thoughts to someone else. And so I knew I needed to call. I could not get a hold of my husband. I actually tried to call him first. So at that point, I just called 911.

Because the dogs, it was, it's hard to tell the story, but it was like all kind of happening at once. The dogs ran. And so I felt safe to pick up my first. phone and call. 911 and I just told them dogs just killed a cow. I've got to go, you know. And so I knew help was coming at that point.

And we decided to follow where the dogs went. And when we were going across our property, again, you can see the neighbor's driveway. The owner pulled into his driveway while we were still on my property. And so I'm thinking, okay, I can get. over there and tell him what just happened. And so we climb our gate. We're screaming our heads off for help from him.

And he just stood there in his driveway staring at us, which I thought was odd. Because I know, you know, if my husband saw, I mean, I'm 5'2, I'm pretty tiny. I probably look like one of my kids. But if my husband saw a woman and, you know, two children screaming and running and asking for help, he would definitely at least break into a jog, you know? Right. But there was really no response at all. And he just kind of stood there. Hey, this is Steve Day.

If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. on the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed,

you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Honestly, Allie, this sounds ridiculous, but I thought I was going to have a heart attack. Like my heart, we had to, this is a long way we had to go. We had to go through mud. We were covered in mud. We were, we had to go through like a swamp area of our land. And finally we got to his basically almost to his driveway.

And I just said, your dogs just killed our cows, you know, and or killed one of my cows and attacked our cows. You know, I'm falling. But I was at this point, my main focus was to know where those dogs were. I said, where are your dogs? And I looked up on the porch and the wife was up there. And I didn't see the dogs anywhere because they have like a chain link fence. And what a lot of people don't know as well is that this has been going on for about six months. these dogs, when they first moved in, these, our neighbors, these particular neighbors have not

been here for very long, but they had been getting out since September, these dogs. And they had bit another neighbor. They had went over to welcome them to the neighborhood. And they had talked for about 15 minutes. This is the retired sheriff I told you about his wife was bitten. So the neighbors had went over there to introduce themselves when they first moved into the neighborhood. And she had just rusted her fence. You know, it was a normal neighbor conversation. And the dog, the white dog, jumped up and bit her hand. She rested her hand on the fence and the dog's just one of the pit bulls.

So, okay, so the pit bulls were fairly new to the neighborhood, you're saying. Yes. Maximum, they've been there, I think, like seven months. Okay. And so you've had several incidents with them. Have they gotten in trouble with the county? with the with the city for their dogs getting out or biting someone no okay so um you find out that these are pit bulls you're going to the house you said that you saw the wife on the front porch

what was their reaction like you're sobbing you're running after them as you said the guy is just standing there kind of blankly staring at you not doing anything not looking like he's worried or asking if you're okay? So what was his response when you said, your dogs attacked our cattle? His response was, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I just got here. I don't know what's going on, you know?

And he went up to confer with his wife up on the front porch. And it's now known, which I didn't know at the time, I knew the dogs were already up. And I knew those dogs had to have had blood. There had to have been, and honestly, Ali, we were screaming so loud. I don't know how she pulled them in and couldn't hear that. But I knew that they had to know, she had to know that something had definitely went wrong.

Yeah. And for all she knew, by the way, for all she knew, they could have killed you. Like, they could have killed her literal neighbors. And there she is pulling her dogs into her house and just sitting on the front porch. Like, nothing happened. Wow. Yes. And we found that out later.

she's actually on video going out to get like coming down her driveway and getting them and that must have been a part I missed because we were down like in the swamp lands of our land trying to get across so yeah she had to I don't see how she didn't hear us screaming or know something was wrong but anyway so what happened after that was he came back down to talk to me and because I asked for them to I kept asking where the dogs were because I knew that I said the police are on the way. And he said, well, if that, he said something to the effect of, well, we talked in, I think maybe it was our seven-year-old that led him out. And don't you have kids? This is the country. Dogs run around. And at that point, I felt myself getting not only, I was, my anger was

starting to elevate because I realized this is going to be a problem. This is not going to be just neighbors who say, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry, what can we do? Like, yes, we're here. We're waiting for the cops with you, right? It wasn't that sort of a situation at all. They immediately went into this, like, trying to take the narrative mode, and I knew that. And so I felt myself, on top of what I had just experienced, now in a situation where I'm dealing with people who are trying to deny the fact that me and my daughters just fought off their dogs, you know, And it got much, much worse. He said, well, if that's what happened.

And at that point, and I didn't tell you this, but I basically collapsed kind of on the grass right by the road in front of their house waiting for the cops. And I peed myself, which is honestly, I didn't know this either. But I guess that is another thing when you go through a traumatic situation. That's never happened to me ever, you know, that's sort of a lack of control. But, and then I just was sitting there crying. And so when he said that, you know, they're going back and forth and talking.

And when he told me, um, if that's what happened, I stood up and I said, you will not twist this. Me and my daughters are covered in mud. We saw these dogs run to your driveway. These are your dogs. And I started walking across the street to get away from him to go to my other neighbor's house, which is right across the street. her she is the one her name is sarah ligand she has warned me multiple times she'll text me when their dogs get out their dogs have tried to kill their animals she has a bunch of poultry geese

ducks on her on her pond um her husband almost shot the dogs one time because they called and warned them and just said you need to get your dogs they're killing our animals and they were in the pond both dogs attacking their animals so i went to i was thinking get to her yard, which is on the same side of the street as ours, we're both city, and sit on her lawn. I didn't feel safe being on their lawn at that point. And when I was walking across, they were still saying the wife started coming down the driveway. And she started saying, again, that how are you, this is the country, how are you going to get upset at children, you know, like making it out to be her children's fault that this happened.

and I said, no, this has been going on for six months. And this is, you are the adults. This is your responsibility. And she and I was, you know, obviously I'm a crossroad. I'm my voice is very elevated and I'm very upset. Yeah. And she said, she called me, you know, a, the B word. She said, if you're going to get loud, I'm going to get loud too.

And then I just plopped down and I actually texted my neighbor, the one whose lawn I was sitting on. And she raced right over. And that she was at work. She's a local business owner downtown. And that actually became very, very important because when she got there, the police as well kind of arrived. And they, when the police confronted them, they, the wife said the dogs had never been out.

They were there the whole time. And they, you know, the police is asking me for my statements. they asked my daughters for a statement, which was hard. My daughters were very traumatized. I mean, they were crying. But they asked for descriptions of the dogs. And, you know, my youngest that got the closest to those dogs described them to a T. No one had seen the dogs.

They wouldn't show the police officers because the officers told them, if you'll just show us the dogs, we'll be able to see whether, you know, there's evidence or not. And if there's not, we won't take them. But they would not. So even there was probably, Ali, I don't know, four or five animal control officers. There was by the end of it three Fort Smith city police officers. And then there was also deputies from the county. And they actually went up to windows trying to see the dogs because they would not, no matter what, let anyone see those dogs. And there was children inside the home.

They were all like, I think there are. range from anywhere from three to seven years old somewhere inside of that range and um you know my neighbor was asking to do a welfare check the officers wanted a welfare check because those animals just took down a thousand pound animal you know and they're in the home with little kids but at one point um the wife actually was they were uh outside in the one of the children opened the door and this is about two hours into this like situation out front of their house. And the people, the black people ran out onto the porch. And the wife just started screaming at her child. Get the dogs back inside. Don't you let that dog back out. Lock the door. Don't open the door for anyone. So it was just

an absolute mess and an ongoing nightmare. I just want to make sure before we run out of time that we get into the connection with the local prosecutor and the corruption that went on there. So if you could lead us in that direction, too, that would be great. Yes. So I had said it was important that my other neighbor showed up. She went and got, she actually had cameras all over. So she got the video footage. And the video footage clearly showed within a minute of me calling 911, a black dog

running first from our pond and a white dog following. When the video was produced on scene, the sergeant watched it and he immediately put them in handcuffs and said, you have one more chance to give us the dogs or you're going to gel for obstruction of justice. And the wife said the video's lying. Oh, my gosh. This is speaking of unwell. They tried to at the scene, the husband tried to say, I'll write you a $10,000 check right

now. Wow. It was it was crazy and the they said they accused all of us of having no empathy. Look what you're doing to us. You're arresting us in front of our children. And you know, the officers were just like, no, you're doing this. Like no one wants you to be arrested. So anyways, we were told at the scene that after they were taken to the police department, the sergeant was like, this is open and shut. I've talked to I've talked to the prosecuting attorney and she's going to issue the warrant. We have the evidence, you know, all the things. So he said, we're going to leave animal control here. And they're going to stay. The dog owner's mom had come to sit with the children. And we're going to leave the animal control here so they can't take the dog or, you know,

hide it or anything like that. So at that point, we went home with all of our neighbors. And we, our main goal was to get maple out of the pond logistically. That was a whole ordeal. And also get her buried before nightfall, of course. And so that's what we went to go do, thinking this was a done deal. The dogs are gone. The warrant is getting, the warrant's getting written. It's getting signed. That was, that was what we were told. About three hours later, it was about six to seven p.m. at night, we got a phone call from the sergeant. And he said, I don't know what's going on, but she has decided she's not going to sign the warrant. She said that he could take quote,

she said, you can take the black dog, the one named Trey. I think he's the bad one, but let the Harmans keep the white one. Those were her words. And so we all were left like, what just happened?

The sergeant was very, you could say he was very like, this is not routine. This is abnormal. You know, enough to the point to where me and Tyson were like, something is going on here. Something's not normal here. And so long story short, the next day, we started digging. And our neighbors joined us. And we found out the next day through social media, actually,

that they had done many videos together, the prosecuting attorney as well as the dog owners. He had said she is very near and dear to his heart. He had campaigned for her, for her circuit judge position in 2020. And so we knew right there the fact that she knew the dog's name, the fact that she was saying the exact same thing the wife was saying the whole time, which is let me keep my white one. Let me keep the white dog. The white dog didn't do it. You know, all those things. We knew something was wrong and that they had a very close connection. and we were very suspicious that they had in some way intervened in those dogs being taken through their relationship with her.

With Rita Watkins. So ongoing, what did you say? With Rita Watkins. Yes, her name is Rita Watkins. And we have no idea prior who she was. I did not even know. I'll be real honest, who our city's prosecuting attorney was. Yeah.

And so anyways. So we, our neighbors, requested through the Freedom of Information Act, any communication regarding Rita, the Harmans, which are the neighbors, the city, we wanted all the communication. This started really getting elevated at a city level. You know, when the county got involved, the county told us that the city had never put the ball in their court at all. And so we were being told that Rita couldn't do anything. She was telling everyone she couldn't do anything because the dogs were in the county.

And that's just not true. We live in the city. The attack happened in the city. And she could have taken those dogs. And we were told that by multiple law enforcement officers as well as people on the county side. She just chose not to. And then she told the city board. She told everyone that she didn't have jurisdiction.

Well, she did. And when we got the text messages, it took us two weeks of advocating for them, speaking to the city board and all of those. It's very, very clear. So that day when we got the text messages at 2.15 p.m., Josh and Hannah Harmon were taken at 2 p.m. to the police department at 2.15. The mom of Hannah texted Rita Watkins personally and basically let her know what was happening. We've put all these messages out publicly for people to read, but she just told Rita what was happening that her daughter and her husband had been arrested, that the white dog is a baby, that they want to protect it. How can they get it out of the home? You know, what are you? She asked Rita, what are you going to do about these dogs? There was a missing piece between the first text and the second one at 6 p.m. that said, can I get an update from the mother of the dog owner? And so there was obviously a phone call in there. Also, it needs to be said that Rita had went home sick at some point, and the sergeant couldn't get a hold of her after she had said she was going to sign the warrant. So when the dog owner's mom called or texted her, they obviously had communication on the phone or somewhere else. And then Rita responded again by text for the update that she wants to leave the white

dog, but there are witnesses. And we also got the text messages between Rita and the sergeant. So at 3.15 p.m., she reverses course with Sergeant Brent and text him and says, the text I told you, just take the white, just take the black dog, but let the Harman's keep the white dog. That was sent one hour later from when the dog owner's mom texted her. So she did a complete U-turn on what she had said prior to the officer. And yeah, and it just kept, all the messages kept ongoing. And let me pause just to kind of clarify that we've got all of the characters correct. I want to make sure that I'm keeping it straight and that the audience can keep it straight.

And Daily Mail wrote an article on this. They've included several points that you are, that you're reporting here, but also pictures. I just want to make sure that we know who these people are. So the Harman's are the ones who own the dog. We've got their mugshot. we'll put them up. Hannah Harmon and Joshua Harmon. They're a married couple, I guess, that had these two dogs. And they also, so they co-own Harmon real estate company and they share three children together and they are well connected with Rita Watkins, the city prosecutor. We'll

put up a picture of Rita Watkins as well. And we also have pictures and footage of Josh Harmon, the owner of these pit bulls, um, interview. interviewing, affectionately interviewing, might I add, Rita Watkins when she was running for a city prosecutor. So they obviously had a previous relationship. We don't know really how far back, I'm guessing that relationship was. But as you said, you have seen the screenshots of the text messages come out between the city prosecutor and this family. So obviously they go back sometime. I don't know if Rita Watkins felt that she owed these people something. if there was just a friendship there.

A lot of the messages between this family and Rita Watkins are very familiar. Like, oh, my goodness, they're talking about this whole terrible tragic scenario. And they're also saying, oh, my goodness, it's your birthday. I need to take you out for your birthday. This is so great. Oh, yeah, we'll get this figured out. So basically, the bottom line is that what it looks like at least is that they have a connection. She did not want to get really herself involved or she wanted to prevent them

from being punished in any way because they have a prior relationship. She could have recused herself from this and said, you know what, I've got a special interest in this. I know these people. And because I care about integrity, I cannot get involved in this. But she doesn't do that. She's trying to finagle this in some way so that she can protect her friends, right? That's correct.

Yes. And so where are the Harmans right now? They're at home. And, you know, every day they're. I mean, that dog is out front having, you know, she's having coffee with the dog out front in the front yard. Okay, so the black dog has been euthanized. The white dog is still alive. And what's, is there any ongoing process here?

Like, what's happening is Rita Watkins going to be held liable for the evidence that you have that she obviously is working in a corrupt way based on their relationships? Is there anything that can be done to punish these owners or to punish Rita Watkins? So we have my neighbors, both the retired sheriff and the neighbor directly across, we have spoken to the city twice now. We have gone to the city board meetings. We've produced all the text messages, the police timelines, everything we could possibly do at a city level. We have done. The city administrator, Carl Gepkin, the way our city is ran, he is responsible for hiring the city prosecutor. So that is why we went to the board, because the board is responsible.

for hiring Carl. So that's kind of how it set up. So we did all of that, but it seems like the game that's being played is that, well, the county can do something. And the thing that people need to know is that Fort Smith has an ordinance that they did not enforce. They were supposed to take the dogs. Their ordinance is much, much stronger. County can only deem them vicious and quarantine them. So it's much weaker in the county. And so once, it was kicked out to county, the county did everything they could. We had to, we had, we were the ones who had to actively see that transition from city to county because Rita had done nothing. In fact, she said the county wasn't going to do anything, but that wasn't true. The county, the minute we got

up to them did everything they could in their power to do what they could do for us. So they have to put up signs saying, you know, vicious dogs, all these things, but the dog is still there. So what we, where we're at right now is that we finally, uh, submit. a complaint to the Arkansas Professional Conduct Committee, and that's the first step in getting some ethics investigations opened. We also got a call from the Arkansas Attorney General's Office, and they have all the evidence now as of last week. They have all the text messages, the police reports. They're making phone calls. Rita was in this whole last three weeks. she did recuse herself because of all the pressure.

We said we won't sign anything. We're not doing anything until she recuses herself. So there is another prosecuting attorney now that the Attorney General's office is handling, you know, the current obstruction charges because those still have to be prosecuted. And we obviously did not want Rita doing that. But that was all, we had to do all of that. We had to force all of that information in those situations. It wasn't voluntarily done. She shouldn't just recuse herself.

She needs to resign. Who is Rita Watkins' boss? Do you know? So her boss, yeah, her boss is the city administrator. It's Carl Gepkin. And his boss is the board of directors. Right. Carl Gaffkin.

And you've already, you already tried to talk to it. Was it Carl helpful at all? Carl just, he would say things like, well, I'm going to write a letter to the county for you. And we're like, that's, that's not what we need. The ball was fumbled by the city. Right. So that's really it. And then you went to the board and they didn't really do that much?

So several of the board members are helpful, very helpful. But a lot of them just remained quiet. One of them at the board meeting actually said this was racially motivated. And again, wait, wait, wait, we didn't even know. they said okay how do you know that and they said that to you they told you you are racist because the city prosecutor happens to be black Rita Watkins also one of the owners the husband happens to be black so this one of the city board members is calling you racist is that what's going on yes so when our neighbor at the first board meeting um she talked and he really

just basically went on a rant about how this, this is before we got the text messages where we could prove anything. We were just coming with the police timeline and really coming to the board that the city did not enforce their own ordinance. And now this whole neighborhood is living in danger. There's animals, there's children. So we were coming to the board to appeal to the board that the city did not even enforce their own ordinance. And at the end of that, his name is Andre Good. He kind of just went on a whole thing where he said, this isn't a conflict of interest. And he said, and I know how this looks.

I'm the only black man on this board. And so people in the audience, when he started talking about race, none of us had even thought about that. Like, we weren't even, it doesn't, it has no relevance. He started like saying, I know how this looks. I'm the only black man on this board. And people had that kind of a reaction in the audience. And so he turned to the audience. It was all on the news and stuff, this as well.

But he turned to the audience and you just said, whether it's racially motivated or not, you know, and just basically applying that my neighbor who was speaking as well as all of us who were saying she needs, we were calling for Rita to resign because of this. We're racially motivated. Andre Good, the city director, Ward 2 of the city of Fort Smith, Arkansas. So rather than looking at the facts, which are very obvious, you have done a really good job. And you shouldn't have to be the person to do this. But you and your family have been the ones to exhaust all your, you know, so many resources and so much energy. And to putting all these pieces together, uncovering corruption, trying to get some answers. And it's not just about the cows, although they absolutely matter.

And that's traumatizing. It is also about people's lives. I mean, they still have a deadly animal over there. they've gone completely unpunished thus far that could at any point get out of their property and kill people. And the city is doing nothing because there is a prior relationship there. I mean, literally, I, oh my goodness, if something does happen, if something does happen where this dog gets out and hurts a person, every single person in this process who refuse to do something should go to jail. They should. I mean, that's insane.

Yes, and in the text messages we got as well, there is a series of text messages between Rita and Hannah, the owner of the dog, where she is basically saying she's scared for Josh living on this side of town. And this was this, they were upset that I had publicly posted the police reports and the timelines. And they were reacting to that. And so she's also implying, the city prosecutor is implying. that this side of town is the south side of Fort Smith is racist, you know, and that it's dangerous for him to be on this side of town. Wow. Wow. That's incredible. So what are you, what are you doing right now? What's the process look like? How can, how can we help? What can we do? Who can we contact, call, email, whatever? Yes. So again, it's very important to

keep the city board and the city administrators feet to the fire because they have there the city is the one who refused to move the dogs enforcing their own ordinance and they as well are the ones who control and can we have had one uh board of director call for rita wakkins resignation her name is christina cassavis and she um immediately started asking questions when all this happened and she realized very quickly that, yes, Malfi since has occurred. And so she has called for the resignation of Rita. So what we need really is we need the board members to call for her resignation. Because what that does is Carl Gepkin is actually the city administrator who hired Rita. He's actually up for review in, I think, a couple months. And so he's the one, though, who has full control

over whether she resigns or, you know, her employment. What's her name again? What's his name again? Carl Gaffkin. Carl Gaffkin. Okay, we do have an email address for him. I don't know if you have the phone number that people can call. And obviously, I'm telling people to raise a respectful ruckus.

Absolutely no nastiness, no name calling, nothing like that. This is about people's lives. That's what it's about. And so his email is C. G-G-E-F-K-I-I-E-E-E-F-K-I-E. in at Fort Smithar.gov. We'll put that in the description of this podcast. There's also just board of directors at Fort Smithar.gov.

We do have the phone number for Rita Watkins. I don't know, though, at this point, if that's helpful. Yeah, I don't think her phone number is helpful at this point. Concerning her, you know, we are pursuing ethics charges. We want an investigation by the state. and we're pretty confident that that is going to occur. Okay. Well, that's good.

I mean, it should. And I just want to reiterate to the Attorney General of Arkansas that this is a matter of public safety, but not just that. It's a matter of justice. I guarantee you, if she is doing this in this case where human life was threatened, where animal life was taken, I mean, property was damaged in this case. taken. I mean, property was damaged in this case. If she is doing it in this case, she is also corrupt in other ways, too. I guarantee you, this is not an isolated incident that she is a corrupt city prosecutor and a prosecutor is in charge of helping execute justice. If you want to live in a just area, if we care about the truth, if we care about impartiality, which we all

should, then this woman needs to be, needs to resign. She needs to be made to be made to resign because it's not just about the pit bulls. It is just about justice in general. So I'm just very thankful that you're championing this. I know it hasn't been easy for your family. It's been very hard. You know, it's felt like layers of complexity, you know, for our family. And I'll be real honest, you know, the first couple of nights, my youngest who, anyone who follows our family online knows she is our farm girl. She, she could live outside. She'll, she won't clean her room, but she'll be up early in the morning painting, fin, and, you know, mucking out barns.

And one of the things that was really hard is, you know, the first couple of nights, she actually wanted to sell the farm. She made that comment multiple times. And so there's complexities and layers as a mom that I wasn't just able to deal with the loss, you know, and just kind of pick up all of that emotionally for us. But it's just been ongoing feelings of unsafe and another attack, you know, and pending as well as, of course, finding out all of these other. the things about the city prosecutor's misconduct. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking the time

and the energy to share your story. I know, again, it's not an easy thing to do, especially to relive for your family. I hope that just emotionally and spiritually you guys are able to heal. And as terrible as this whole situation is, I am so thankful, one, that you guys were not physically harmed. Like, I'm just thinking of that as a mom myself. If I saw a dog that had just killed an animal seriously maimed another animal locking eyes with my daughter. I mean, and some people are going to say, you know, why didn't you have a gun? Well, you didn't realize what was happening at this point. You couldn't even see from the point of your house what was going on. So you're just thinking about your daughters. You're just thinking about safety. You didn't know they were pit bulls. You didn't know what

was going on. And so obviously that would have been different if you knew exactly what the threat was. but I mean, we're talking about like human life here versus the desires of owners of pit bulls to get their way. And so that's why this story matters so much. And I'm thankful that you guys are okay. And I am thankful that God seems to be using this to expose things that need to be exposed. Who knows what tragedy this is actually going to prevent from happening or what subversion of justice. This whole situation may prevent from happening because you are. pursuing an ethics complaint and ethics charge. So it's worth it. I really do believe that we might not

see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. We might not see what God is doing through all of this yet. And we may never. But I really believe that you guys are being courageous and obedient. And so I just encourage everyone listening and watching to support y'all to, you know, follow you and we'll put all that information in the description and just to pray for y'all and to encourage y'all because I know that this has been really tough. Is there any last thing? that you want to share? Yeah, just exactly what you said. I'm so grateful you said that because I do see God's grace on this entire situation from

beginning to end. And we are so thankful for our community. They have actually gotten a lot done as far as getting eyes and ears on this. You know, even the fact that I'm talking to you right now is because people are trying to help us and our community has been sharing it. And so very grateful to all the people that have helped us to my neighbor, Sarah Liggin, who has just been relentless in trying to protect this neighborhood. And yes, thank you for your prayers.

They mean so much. And thank you for allowing us to share this story here, Allie. Thank you so much, Holly. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. Thank you. All right. So we have talked about pit bulls before. This story is much bigger than the problem of pit bulls.

It's really about corruption. It's about justice. and impartiality. And so it has a lot bigger themes, a lot deeper themes than just the issue of pit bulls. But I like to take the opportunity to remind people that pit bulls are a scourge. That it's not just that the,

it's not just the owners. It's not just that they're trained in a wrong way, but actually they are different. They are inherently different. Golden retrievers inherently know how to retrieve. They are born knowing how to swim. Shepherds know how to herd. Chihuahuas know how to nip at your heels. You don't have to teach dogs these things. And yet you would

think by the arguments put forth by pit bull defenders that pit bulls are the only dogs that are born totally blank slate and have no inherent characteristics whatsoever that everything they do has to actually be taught. But that is not true. I cannot tell you how many messages I receive, how many stories I see on a weekly basis from people saying, we loved our pit bull from puppyhood. We got them at six weeks old, 12 weeks old. We trained them. We loved them.

We spoiled them. They were around our kids. They were around our cats. They were so gentle. My kids used to lay on my pit bull and then one day they snapped. One day I was walking out the door and my pit bull just latched on to my arm. It wouldn't let go. One day they turned around and they grabbed onto my neighbor's face without any warning whatsoever.

that happens over and over again. You remember that Nashville story when a family lost their two kids, their five-month-old baby, and their two-year-old little girl, because their two pit bulls mauled these children to death. And then as the mom was trying to defend these kids, she was also mauled. She went into the hospital, but her babies died. I mean, I can't imagine how absolutely devastated they were. But if you look back at their previous post, has been, as has been, as has been reported by places like New York Post, they were pit bull advocates. And they believed that the fear-mongering about pit bulls was totally misguided, that they loved their pit bulls named Cheech and Mia, that they would never harm a fly and that no one will ever take their pit bulls away

from them. That's what the Facebook post of the dad of these two now mauled and murdered children once said. And so you are simply misguided. Yes, all dogs bite. And I know the statistics. Well, these dogs bite actually more than pit bulls. Yeah, Chihuahua's bite. That's true. Cocker Spaniel's bite. There was actually a vet tech who went back and forth with me on this on Twitter saying, well, I've seen bites from Chihuahuas. Tell me how many children have gone to the ICU because of their Chihuahua bite. Tell me how many funerals people have attended because their toddler was mulled to death by a Cocker Spaniel. Tell me how many. me that. It doesn't happen. I'm not saying that other dogs don't bite. Pit bulls are deadlier because

they were bred to do this. They were bred to bait bulls and to kill hogs. It is the power of their bite. It's that when they bite, they do not let go. Just type in pit bull attack. You'll see it. Some of the gnarliest stories that you've ever seen before because people elevate animals over human life over and over again. Yes, it is the breed. It is the breed. And yeah, okay, it might be the owners too. It might be the owners too. But because more deaths by dog bite or because of pit bulls than other dogs by proportionality,

then I guess that just means the owners are disproportionately responsible. I'm fine with that. I'm fine with saying that too. I think it's the breed. But apparently pit bull owners disproportionately suck. I know. I get so worked up about this. But whenever I talk about this, like the level of.

of denial that I see from pit bull apologists, that these stories are so common. It's just off the charts. It's just off the charts. So I'm just asking you, I'm pulling you back to sanity, back to earth to show you yet again that human life matters more. And these dogs are disproportionately inherently dangerous. And yes, I know there's mixes. I know there's half pit bull, whatever. Apparently there is a certain percentage of pit bull that you have to have in a dog that makes you, I think, more inherently aggressive. Does it mean that all pit bulls are bad? Does it mean that all pit bulls are going to mall someone to death? No, but do I think that we should take our chances on that? I don't think so. I happen to believe that human life matters more. I mean, I saw this terrible story the

other day, 46-year-old woman. She was, I think she was a deputy, actually. And she, her, child went into a neighbor's garage. I guess this was commonplace. And there were three dogs in there. The dogs, the dog started attacking the nine-year-old. And so this was in Indianapolis, eight-year-old son, actually. Her name was Tamika White. And she went in there to protect her child like all of us would. That's just what moms and dads do. Like we would rather be mulled to death than our child harmed. And she was mauled to death by these three pit bulls. You don't see these headlines about Cocker Spaniels. You don't see these headlines about Dalmatians. Stop playing dumb. I'm sure your pit bull is really nice. That's fine. I think that, but the statistics don't lie.

The data doesn't lie. We can put some links to resources so you can read it for yourself. Stop living in denial. All right. That's all we've got for today. We will be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity

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