Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 828 | I Called Obama Evil. Christians Got Mad. Who’s Right?

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Today we're talking about Obama's tweet condemning the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which shows just how evil the pro-abortion philosophy is. We give a reminder of what an abortion actually is and explain how only an evil ideology could not only allow such a thing but actively applaud it. Then we look at Justin Giboney's "AND Campaign" response to us, which claims that our argument that Christians should not vote Democrat really means Christians should vote Republican. We explain why this isn't necessarily true and why some Christians tend to misunderstand the cruelty of Democratic policies in the first place. We take a look at some other responses to us and break down why the two political sides are not morally equivalent. Finally, we look at some horrifying abortion rhetoric from the Left. --- Timecodes: (01:06) Intro (09:53) Obama's tweet / abortion numbers post-Roe / pregnancy centers (22:00) What is abortion? (31:00) Allie's response to Obama's tweet (32:45) Justin Giboney's response (46:57) The AND Campaign (51:12) Ben Watson's response (54:10) Latasha Morrison's responses / 'Be the Bridge' (01:04:22) Democrat abortion rhetoric --- Today's Sponsors: Good Ranchers — get $30 OFF your box today at GoodRanchers.com – make sure to use code 'ALLIE' when you subscribe. You'll also lock in your price for two full years with a subscription to Good Ranchers! Patriot Mobile — go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 878-PATRIOT and use promo code 'ALLIE' to get free activation! Freedom Project Academy — FPA has perfected live online learning for more than a decade. Built on Judeo-Christian values and classical curriculum, Freedom Project Academy is dedicated to providing mastery of subject matter, not leftist propaganda. Save 10% on tuition when you enroll today at FreedomForSchool.com. Constitution Wealth — align your values with your investments through your financial management. Go to ConstitutionWealth.com/ALLIE and schedule a FREE consultation! --- Links: TIME: "Legal Abortions Down by 96% in States With Most Restrictions Since the End of Roe" https://time.com/6270530/abortion-rates-post-roe/ Neil Shenvi: "A Short Review of Morrison’s Be The Bridge" https://shenviapologetics.com/a-short-review-of-morrisons-be-the-bridge/ --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 764 | What Really Happens at Pregnancy Centers? | Guest: Leanne Jamieson https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-764-what-really-happens-at-pregnancy-centers-guest/id1359249098?i=1000602536140 Ep 406 | Moral Order AND Social Justice? | Guest: Justin Giboney https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-406-moral-order-and-social-justice-guest-justin-giboney/id1359249098?i=1000517887828 Ep 480 | Better Than ‘Be the Bridge:’ Biblical Unity | Guest: Monique Duson https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-480-better-than-be-the-bridge-biblical-unity-guest/id1359249098?i=1000533902626 Ep 113 | Virgil Walker — Abortion Exceptions? https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-113-virgil-walker-abortion-exceptions/id1359249098?i=1000438346927 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Over the weekend, Barack Obama lamented restrictions on abortion that have been put in place since the overturning of Roe v. Wade last year and celebrated that many states are creating a constitutional right to the slaughter of children. and I said that he is evil for saying this. And some Christians took issue with that description, deeming it divisive or unkind or unhelpful. Were they right?

We'll dig into all of this today on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to you by our friends at Go to GoToRanchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use code Alley at checkout. That's go to Ranters.com, code Alley. Hey, guys, welcome to Relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. I don't know about you, but it is really heating up where I am. like uncomfortable levels to the point to where even getting in a pool, you find no relief.

Yeah, I chose to wear a sweater today. I'm not really sure why. I kind of feel like Regina George when they made fun of her for wearing sweatpants on Wednesday. And I'm like, it's the only thing that fits me right now. So I felt about choosing this sweater today as I am 31 weeks pregnant. And this is one of the only things that can fit me right now. As I was leaving, my husband was like, you were wearing a sweater. and it is going to be in triple digits today.

I was like, you know what? Just let me live my life. So we'll see. We'll see if I can get this, get through this episode without sweating bullets. Speaking of clothing, we've got some merch items coming out this week that I'm so excited about.

Relative Bros. Finally, this is your time. This is your time. You will be having merch that is more masculine, that will come in masculine colors. Now, that doesn't mean that every Related Bro is going to, like these designs. This round of merch might not be for you, but certainly for some Related Bros, you will really like these merch items coming out. And Related gals, related bells, related bells,

related friends, whatever you're called, we still don't know. You will love this T-Shs. Well, you will love this merch. You will love this merch too, because you have, been asking for this for the past few weeks. And so you will be very, very excited. So I'm super pumped to make this stuff available to y'all. I think it's going to be out on Thursday. So check that out. Okay. Also, before we get started, if you love this podcast, please leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. It means a lot to us. It helps out the show. It encourages and buoys the relatable team. So thank you so much. If you love this show, leave a five-star review. Okay, last thing before I get into what this episode is actually about is

just a little Monday encouragement, as we always do, just do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God that is always enough. And in fact, as finite humans, as fallible people, as human beings with a limited capacity to do anything that's really the only thing we are called to do and the only thing we are capable of doing is the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. That doesn't always mean something major and public to make a lot of waves. Maybe it does, but it can also mean changing the next diaper with joy, having the next conversation, be sprinkled with grace, sending that email at work with excellence and enthusiasm or it could be making the next big step of faith that you know that

God has been calling you or you and your family too. So the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. I was just thinking yesterday about the freedom that comes from that and the freedom that is granted to only worry about that because of the gospel. And we don't have to expend all of this energy trying to prove our value or to show our worth or to be acceptable or gain approval before God. We were singing in church yesterday All Sufficient Merit, which is one of my new favorites. I love that song. It's not new, but it's kind of newer to me over the last year or so. And just the freedom, the liberation, the joy that comes from knowing that Christ has given his righteousness to us, that we can stand before God fully approved.

fully pure, fully righteous, no matter what we've done, if by grace through faith, we have been saved by Christ. What amazing and freeing and joy-inducing news is that that we don't have to worry about proving ourselves to God or climbing our way up to God, but the unique part of Christianity is that Christ actually came down to us. God actually came down to us. He condescended himself to become flesh and to die the death that we deserve to die on our behalf. That is great, amazing, freeing news and that frees us to only worry about doing the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. And even that is powered by God, by the Holy Spirit.

That doesn't even come from our own efforts. All right. So I just wanted to start the episode with that little bit of good news. And then we're going to talk about, I don't know if it's sad. news. It's anger. I mean, it's anger-inducing. And that is Obama's reaction to the anniversary of Roevey Wade being overturned. Now, this is not surprising what he has to say. However, it is evil. It is, I mean, it's stomach churning. It's heartbreaking. And what I find even more heartbreaking is the reaction to what he said by some Christians. And we're going to talk about not just this

tweet and what it represents. But my response to the tweet and then the response to my response by some who I would say represent what I would call third wayism. And I'll explain what I mean by that throughout the episode, this idea that as a Christian, we shouldn't be on the right. We shouldn't be on the left. We shouldn't necessarily be supporting all Republican policies or all Democrat policies, but there is like a third higher transcendent way of Christ that kind of brings together both. sides of the aisle because both sides of the aisle this idea would go are like equally imperfect and equally corrupt and so we must choose a higher better way. It sounds good. I see some flaws in that and one of the flaws that I see represented is actually kind of embodied in the responses to my

response to Obama. But we're going to spend some time talking actually about abortion policy in the United States and what is actually true about it because gosh this still is an issue somehow that trips professing Christians up. That still, in the name of empathy, there are Christians who think that we need to have a nuanced approach to how we limit the slaughter of children on the legal level. And that's very disturbing to me. It's very sad to me. I know that because I have the stance that I do on this issue, there will be people professing Christians who say that I'm mean because of this, who will say that this is hateful, who will say that this is arrogant to have the stance that I do. but I think that there is nothing less arrogant than standing up for the voiceless, defenseless babies in the womb,

who at the very least deserve a legal right to not be murdered, as the rest of us do, right? Life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, guaranteed in the Declaration of Independence for a reason. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe. leave is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over

chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. hope you'll join us. Barack Obama, you might remember, he was the president of the United States at one point. He tweeted this just a couple days ago on the anniversary of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which, wow, I'm still just praising God that he allowed that to happen after 50 years, 50 years of effort by pro-lifers and mostly pro-life Christians who advocate on behalf of the rights of the unborn. He says, it's been a year since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade.

Since then, 14 states have banned most abortions, leaving millions of women and girls with nowhere to turn for the care they need. And yet, he says, there are reasons to hope. After Roe v. Wade was overturned, voters in Michigan, California, and Vermont helped enshrine abortion rights in their state constitutions and governors in states like Nevada, Hawaii, and Pennsylvania have signed executive orders to protect abortion access. Wow, I have so much to say about every single line of that tweet.

But first, I mean, this is besides the point. I just want to point out something that I just kind of realized as I was reading this, leaving millions of women and girls with nowhere to turn. What about all the men that I hear about having babies? I heard that men can have babies. Any individual can have a baby. Wow, Obama, so regressive, so transphobic, very confused about that. Nevertheless, he does say millions of women and girls with nowhere to turn for the care they need.

So let's go through some of these claims. Before we talk about my response and the responses to my response. So he says, leaving millions of women and girls with nowhere to turn for the care they need. So this is according to Time magazine. Quote, in the six months since the U.S. Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade, there were 5,377 fewer abortions on average per month, according to a new report. The average number of terminations from July through December was 77,073, a 7% drop from the average in April and May, according to a Tuesday report from the Society of Family Planning. And the states with the strictest restrictions, Alabama, Arkansas, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, West Virginia, and Wisconsin, there were 265 abortions per month on average from July to September.

that's a 96% drop from April and May. Amazing. Praise God. Like that should be something that Christians are able to unequivocally, without caveat, without nuances, without apology, unabashedly celebrate that these are image bears of God who were protected from the predation of abortion and abortion providers. Remember last year when Roe v. Wade was overturned and we had all of these professing Christians, like you know, sprinkling their celebration of the overturning with Roe V. Wade, with caveats and with, well, we sure this is okay. But remember, we still need to be adding, we still need to be doing more from the state. The state needs to be adding more to welfare. We still need to be doing X, Y, Z. No, just celebrate. Celebrate the fact that it is going to be easier to protect the dignity of unborn children in the womb, that it is going to be less likely for them to be slaughtered. Like, just praise God for that. We can have conversations about those things. I'm open to those conversations and debates and discussions.

I truly am. But it's okay just to say, wow, God and his grace and his providence, he allowed justice to prevail from the Supreme Court after years and years and years of mostly conservative Christians fighting on behalf of unborn children and their families. Also, this assertion that millions of women and girls with no, also just like the use of girls here is disturbing um that they have nowhere to turn of course he like every other democrat that i've seen um at least politician i won't say every democrat voter they deny the existence or the helpfulness of pregnancy centers they will say that these are

manipulative clinics that they're posing as abortion centers and then they are giving these women, misinformation about pregnancy and about abortion? No, that's not true. As per usual, progressives are scared of the truth. They don't want women to get these sonograms. They don't want them to hear the heartbeat. They don't want them to know what actually goes into an abortion. They don't want them to see depictions of that. They don't want them to even typically, I'm talking about the abortion lobby, have information about parenting, about adoption. I mean, woman after woman, who has told me that they walked into a planned parenthood when they had an unplanned pregnancy has told me that the Planned Parenthood employee will say,

you don't want to do this, right? Not do you want to do this, but you don't want to do this, right? Like you're in the middle of school. You're really young. Your financial situation isn't great. This relationship is unstable. You seem to not emotionally be doing well. Let's just take care of this.

It's no big deal. It's just a clump of cells, which I understand. Like when you have the position that's as brutal as, hey, dismembering babies. is okay, then of course, you have to use lies, you have to cover up, you have to use euphemisms. And so, of course, Barack Obama, being the radical abortion advocate that he is, would deny, would completely ignore the reality of these pregnancy centers that far outnumber planned parenthoods, by the way. They meet the material needs of these women. They offer them the material resources. They even offer with Medicaid enrollment, refuge from domestic abuse, immigration

help, even labor and delivery support, I will link the interview that I did with the pregnancy center, the head of a pregnancy center that I did several months ago, just telling the stories of the women who walk in there and how they've been able to tangibly meet so many needs, but also spiritually meet needs. And even apart from what these pregnancy centers are doing on a daily basis to help these women and these families who are in crisis, which is just absolutely incredible. I mean, the hands and feet of Jesus in amazing ways. But you'll remember this awesome story of you guys through an Amazon link donating through a baby registry to a pregnancy center, tons and tons of items because you guys are so generous.

Just thousands of these Amazon boxes showed up at this pregnancy center. And the Amazon driver was dropping off these boxes and asked the, volunteers at the pregnancy center, what are you guys, what are you guys doing? Like, why do you have so many Amazon boxes in right then and there? A staff member of that pregnancy center got to share the gospel with that Amazon truck driver. That Amazon truck driver prayed right then that Christ would save him. So like there are so many, so many ways that these pregnancy centers, these Christian pregnancy centers, they're mostly run, mostly run by evangelical conservatives. There's so many ways that these pregnancy centers are making an impact for these communities,

helping these women, but also sharing the gospel with everyone involved in the process. But of course, Obama says they have nowhere to turn. What he means is that it's harder to abort their babies. That's what he's saying. And he goes on to say this, quote, and yet there are reasons to hope, reasons to hope after he says it is now harder to abort your children. So what he's saying is that despair is giving babies a chance to live? We need hope because it's now more difficult in some states to kill babies in the womb. He says this, quote, after Roe v. Wade was overturned, voters in Michigan, California, and Vermont helped enshrine abortion rights in their state constitutions and governors in states like Nevada, Hawaii, Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania.

Pennsylvania have assigned executive orders to protect abortion access. Gosh, you'll just notice euphemism after euphemism. That's what the abortion advocates do. They never use clear, precise scientific language to say what an abortion is. Even the word abortion is kind of a euphemism when you think about it. So he's right in some ways that there are some states who passed legislation, who passed who passed policies that do make it very difficult to restrict abortion. Now, those of you living in those states in Michigan and California, you would probably take issue with this idea that the voters voted for these things just in the sense that there was so much manipulation. There was so much propaganda. There was so much misinformation from the billion-dollar abortion lobby in your state that you really don't feel like it was a fair fight.

And I would say that that's probably legitimate. But let me go through a few of these things that Obama is celebrating as hopeful as wonderful. So earlier this year, Michigan passed Prop 3, adding abortion to its state constitution, allowing abortion for any reason through viability 24 weeks, which is almost the third trimester, by the way. And also allows for abortion through all nine months of pregnancy as long as it protects the health of the mother. Now, that does not mean save the life of the mother. That includes any form of physical health of the mother, but it also includes, according to Prop 3, the mental health of the mother,

which, as we know, can really mean anything. So essentially, in Michigan, killing a baby in the womb is legal to and through 40 weeks gestation. Now, how likely or rare third trimester abortions are is totally irrelevant. Babies through all nine months of pregnancy, wiggling, feeling, moving babies through all nine months of pregnancy in the state of Michigan have zero right not to be violently murdered. That's what Obama is calling hopeful. Last year, California passed Prop 1, which added the quote unquote right to abortion to the state constitution. Same deal as Michigan, no restrictions whatsoever through 24 weeks. After that, abortion is legal if the mother's mental health, even mental health, is negatively impacted.

Like you see where that goes, right? Oh yeah. Like she's sad that she's pregnant. Mental health problems. Okay, you can have an abortion at 35 weeks. Again, you can say that never happens. If that never happens, then we don't need these stipulations. If that never happens, then why not give these children the dignity of having the right not to be murdered. Vermont did the same thing last year by passing Prop 5. Abortion is a constitutional right in Vermont and does not have any restrictions whatsoever that I could read, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't have any restrictions whatsoever through any trimester of pregnancy. So not even like a pretense of a protection through all nine months of pregnancy. So that is what Barack Obama is praising. This person who I think still claims he's a Christian.

That's what he's calling hope. Now notice he says the word enshrine, which in this context means to preserve like a right or a tradition or idea in a form that ensures it will be protected and respected. But the word enshrine can also mean to preserve or cherish as sacred. And shrine can mean to place a revered object on a shrine. Now what does a shrine mean? A place regarded as holy. So whether Obama means to or not, he's describing exactly how the

the Democratic Party views abortion, as sacred, as holy, as a thing to be worshipped. Now, after this next ad break, I'm going to remind us what an abortion is. And it is, it's going to be graphic. I won't get as graphic as I could. And if you are already, you're already like, look, I'm anti-abortion. I don't need to be reminded of this. You can fast forward a few minutes into this, but I do think it's important to, to remember what specifically, scientifically we're actually talking about.

All right. So just a brief explanation, a reminder of what we are actually talking about again. So through 12 weeks gestation. So in that first trimester, women typically undergo medication abortion. So they're first given a pill called Miphyprisone that blocks the hormone progesterone, which is necessary for new life to grow without progesterone. The lining of the uterus breaks down, which makes it impossible for the embryo or fetus to grow. Essentially, the baby is starved. The baby is starved of nutrients and dies. Now, I remember my first,

or it was my second ever ultrasound with my first baby. The first time, that first ultrasound at eight or so weeks, that baby looks like a little jelly bean. You see the beating heart and it's amazing. But if you had a second, a second sonogram, still in the first trimester like I did, 11 and a half weeks. Oh my gosh, the transformation is incredible. So still in the first trimester, I saw this little perfectly formed, fully developed, but just small baby in my womb, arms, legs, brain. You can see where the teeth are coming in. You can see the ribs. You can see all the little fingers and toes kicking and flipping. I mean, it was so vivid and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm so in the first trimester. This is a little, this is a little baby moving around,

which of course from the point of conception, it's always a human, but still I think people forget. People forget what we're talking about here. Still in the first trimester, you're looking at a baby. If you saw a sonogram of an 11-week baby in the womb, you would see what looks like a baby, all right? So we're talking about these little babies being starved of their nutrients through a poisonous pill. The second step is then to give the mother miss a pristol, which causes the uterus to contract and then expel the baby. Horrible, horrible stories you've probably seen of women having heavy cramping for hours, bleeding, and then sitting on the toilet, just bleeding out, sometimes very dangerously. And sometimes these horror stories of women looking down and seeing that little tiny human being.

with the fingers and the toes in their toilet. Like that's not an exaggeration. That's not hyperbole. That's what, that's scientifically what it is. It doesn't just always look like a clump depending on how far along you are. So that's first trimester abortion. That's when the vast majority of abortions happen. But we're still talking about a violent, brutal killing experience.

And then aspiration abortion is typically performed through 10 to 21 weeks gestation. It removes the baby via suction. first the abortion provider places sticks in called laminaria into the woman's cervix 24 to 48 hours before the procedure, opens up the cervix, soaks up the amniotic fluid, which is necessary for the baby's survival. So because of this, the baby is sometimes already dead by the time of the actual procedure because it can't survive very long without that amniotic fluid. But many times they're not. So dead are alive during this aspiration abortion, the baby's limbs, torso, and skull is sucked out of the uterus using a vacuum. Sometimes you have to use forcips in order to do this depending on how big the baby is. Sometimes the skull is just not big enough to be able to fit through the cervix without being crushed. In a DNA abortion, which is usually reserved for babies after 20 to 21 weeks gestation, which you could say, oh, that never happens. It does happen. It happens at least pre-Roe.

It was about 10,000 abortions a year were these late-term abortions. This abortion procedure starts the same way an aspiration abortion does with the limin area to dilate the cervix. But because the baby at this point is too big to be sucked out with a vacuum tube with aspiration, her actual killing and removal requires more steps. So to ensure fetal demise, as the abortion industry describes it, the baby is killed by the abortionist inserting a needle filled with digoxin. I think that's how you pronounce it. or potassium chloride, which just as an aside, it's the same poisonous chemical combination used for the lethal injection

of convicted murderers on death row. Using the same combination of chemicals for these innocent babies inside the womb. So that's inserted through the mother's abdomen into the uterus and the amniotic sac. Now, and this is very hard. I always have to try really, really hard to kind of detach myself as I'm describing this

so I'm not just like a puddle of emotion. If the baby stops wiggling, long enough while this is happening. The abortionist can inject the poison directly into her heart. And when the poison is released into her heart, or if the baby is moving too much, just into the amniotic sack, the baby consumes the poison and dies. It causes a cardiac arrest. So it causes a heart attack that ends up killing her. So that's what happens in these later abortions. And the baby has gotten so big and her movements have become so, so, so. strong that the mother has been able to feel her punch and kick for a while now. And so without the

numbing medication that is used for a woman during this procedure, the mother would feel the movement of her child as this baby is being killed. The baby has developed enough to see, to hear, and depending on her age, feel the pain of an abortion. And like, these are the abortions that are enshrined, as Barack Obama said, into law in the several states that he mentioned. And he's saying this is hopeful. He's saying this is good. These kind of brutal murders of these innocent, wiggling image bearers of God, he's saying, this is a good thing.

We need to, we need this to spread across the country. We need to make it as easy as possible for these babies to be forced into cardiac arrest, to be dismembered, to be aspirated out of the womb, to be poisoned and starved. He says, this is a good thing. This is hopeful, something we can really hang our hat on. need to be enshrined, held up as holy in the law. So here is my response to what Obama said. Evil man, evil ideology, evil party.

Christians have no excuse to ever support these people. There is no both sides argument. Yeah. Regarding as holy, sacred, hopeful, a right? The brutal killing of innocent, defenseless human beings simply because of the location in which they reside, their age, their size, their stage of development, and their inability to fight back.

is evil. It's evil. Only an evil ideology and an evil political party can not only allow such a thing, but actively applaud and celebrate it because they do, by the way. Because they do. Democrats celebrate it. Like you will not find a Democrat activist or a Democrat politician who does not celebrate abortion, who will say, should be safe but legal and rare because it's just an evil. It's a necessary evil. and I don't like it, but we just have to allow women to do it through some trimesters of pregnancy. If you can find that Democrat politician, like I would like to see them. Today, yeah, sure. I mean, Barack Obama and Joe Biden were saying that maybe 15 years ago today, you're not going to find any prominent Democrats doing that. Again, maybe some Democrat voters, but not the people they're voting for.

and yet knowing everything that we know about abortion, a holocaust of human beings. Some people, Christians, took issue with my tweet of calling Obama evil, this ideology evil, this party evil saying that on this issue, there's no both sides. On some issues, there probably are. On this issue, there's not. There's not a both sides argument.

And so Justin Gibney of the Ant campaign, You've probably heard of the AN campaign. Maybe, maybe not. Producer Bree had not heard of the AN campaign. So you might not have heard about it. It bills itself as a nonpartisan organization meant to bring Christians from both sides of the aisle together on various political issues. I do not believe that that's, I don't see that as its core mission. That's my opinion.

I can get more into that in a second. But he responded to what I had to say. He didn't, he took issue with what I said. And so I'll read his response. So here's what Justin said. And well, by the way, let me say, I have had Justin on. I had Justin on a few years ago. And so you can go back.

You can listen to that conversation because I've had disagreements with the campaign and like how they, their mission and how they function for a while or like what they say they stand for versus what it seems to me, to me, it's just my perspective, what they stand for. So I wanted to have him on. And I always allow my guests to talk, especially the guests that I, like, disagree with. And so I think that you will find that it was very fair. That doesn't mean that I agreed, though. Some people were mad. It seemed like, like I didn't agree or like I didn't end up

saying, oh, yeah, you're right. Well, I didn't agree. I didn't agree with a lot of things. So I did have him on. We have talked before. And I did say on Instagram originally, oh, he hasn't invited me to have a conversation, which he reminded me was not true. And so I owned the mistake on Instagram and I own the mistake here. And I should have checked. I should have checked before I said anything. But he did invite me on. I was on maternity leave a couple years ago. And so it didn't happen. And it just, I didn't follow up or anything. And so it didn't happen. But he did invite me. So to be fair, he invited me. He's been on my show. And I really appreciate that. I still think that we probably personally agree on a lot of things. We disagree on how to apply a lot of our similar convictions politically. So here's what he said to my response to Obama when I said

evil man, evil ideology, evil party. Christians have no excuse to ever support these people, which I think is true. He says, in other words, we get abortion partially right. So you must agree with us on everything. Even when our leaders show a lack of concern for the lives of immigrants, black men killed by authorities, pregnant black women, the uninsured poor, and create laws to make it harder to vote. That was his response to me. He goes on to say in another tweet, Thou shall vote Republican is not in the Bible. I voted for both parties and have plenty of criticisms of Democrats, including abortion and immigration, but this narrative is wrong and extremely disrespectful to millions of faithful black Christians. People only feel good saying

things like this when they lack relationship with Christians from other traditions. Okay. So I'm interested to hear what your response would be to that. My response is that this is a total non-sequitur. which is a classic logical fallacy that refuses to deal with the argument at hand by redirecting attention to other places. This is a very typical tactic. I bring up the evil of abortion or the pro-lifeer brings up the evil of abortion. And the other side will say, well, what about these 10 other bad issues over here? I said nothing in this tweet about having to vote Republican to be a Christian as he claims I did. Now, and I also didn't talk about like many of the other things that he said that I am implying or saying. Now, I did say that Christians shouldn't vote Democrat

in so many words. And I've said that before many times on this show. But that is not the same as saying that you must vote Republican. Now, I personally don't vote independent or choose not to vote, but there are some Christians that do. And I don't agree with that. But I am more supportive of that than I am a professing Christian voting Democrat. I don't have to jump through. any logical or theological hoops to say very confidently that a Christian should not vote for the party that celebrates dismembering children and chemically castrating preteens. It's just like not really a tough one for me. But I've also said a few things consistently. Number one, voting Democrat in itself is not an indication of someone's salvation one way or the other.

Why? Because, and some people aren't going to like this, but you can be wrong and be a Christian. like thankfully for all of us right like we will all all who are Christians like we will all go to heaven being wrong about lots and lots of things there's no one that is going to leave this earth going to heaven being right about everything so all of us will die with opinions and thoughts that are just not right so thankfully like we can be Christians and be wrong um I think people who vote Democrat are wrong I think they're wrong to do so I think Christians who vote Democrat are egregiously wrong to do so.

But our vote is not what saves us or indicates our state of salvation. Now, can you be ideologically progressive and be a Christian? No, I don't think so. Because neither progressivism nor Christianity will allow that. But because progressivism is its own religion, is its own faith. It's not just a set of principles. Like, it has its own narrative of human history, of its own ideas, of its own idea of salvation, its own separate idea of sanctification, its own idea of morality of right and

wrong, of even like what it means to be human, progressivism rejects the Christian tenets on all of these things at their very core. It also includes support for abortion, for gender confusion, for the reformulation of the family, for the sexualization of children, among other things that are diametrically opposed to what the God of the universe says is good and right and true. So when it comes to progressivism as an ideology or Christianity, they don't mix. They can't. But it is possible. And by the way, like let me just say, like conservatism, I'm not saying, of course,

Chryslesles conservatism is just as impotent as progressivism is. But conservatism doesn't have the same competing narrative about human nature and human origins. salvation and holiness and sanctification as to like contrary to the Bible as progressivism does. It really is like a set of ideas, a set of principles, which is why conservatives tend to disagree on a lot more than progressives do. It's like a religion versus a set of ideas. But it is possible, it is possible, though I would say incoherent, to hold Orthodox biblical views and still vote Democrat. again, I say strongly that it is wrong, but the blue vote or the red vote in themselves cannot tell us whether someone is truly saved.

I do know truly saved from everything that I can tell, Jesus loving people who have voted Democrat. Man, oh man, I think that they are dead wrong to do that. But I don't doubt that they love Jesus. I see them in the word. I see them sharing the gospel. I just think that they really misunderstand these. issues. Okay, a number two, number two, another thing that I've said consistently. Like, if I were to entertain, that is, the non-sequit about all the other issues that are

brought up without actually dealing with the evil of abortion, which he never addresses in his response. I wouldn't even grant that Democrats get those other issues right. This is actually like a big portion of what my next book is about. I do not believe Democrats immigration policy or crime policy or racial policy or economic policy or whatever is beneficial to the slightest. In fact, I would argue that they're all terrible. Cruel policies that leave every single city dominated by them ruined. Like when we look at the most solidly democratic cities, do we see black people, immigrants, women, poor people thriving?

Seattle, San Francisco, New York City, L.A., Denver, Austin have the lives of these people in these cities improved over the past several years as progressive policy. has been more intensely implemented? Like, I think we all know the answer to that. Like, even progressives are leaving San Francisco because of the drug policy, because of the so-called social justice policy, because of the so-called racial justice policy that is distributing wealth from one group of people to the other in the name of reparations. Like, walk through the streets of San Francisco and see how the social justice policy is passed

by Democrats is working out. And no, this myth that Republicans make it harder to vote by rejecting the Democrat plan to federalize all elections, which would actually make it harder to vote with integrity, it's ridiculous. We apparently saw Jim Crow type voting laws in Georgia a couple of years, a couple of years ago, and yet black people turned out in record voting numbers in the following election. So that's debatable. Like, I'll say that.

That's debatable. There's probably legitimate points on both sides of that issue. But to just say that Republicans get all these things wrong. And I guess the implication is that Democrats get them right or more right, I totally take issue with. So even to follow the non sequitur, I don't think that's a legitimate line of even like, even peripheral, peripheral reasoning. Now, maybe he's just saying that Republicans don't get these things right either, which, okay, I can hear, I can totally hear that out.

I actually love hating on Republicans. My criticism of Republicans, however, it does come from the right. It doesn't come from like a moderate place. It comes from a place of saying, I don't think that Republicans are need to merely conservative or moral or consistent enough for me. But, okay, we've got one party that celebrates the double mastectomies of gender-confused girls and ripping apart babies in the womb. And then we've got another party that is against these things, but also could be better in

other areas. So, yeah, like, I don't really have to jump through any hoops or, like, I don't really have to do any mental gymnastics to say, yeah, they're not morally equivalent. And that's really kind of my big problem that I'll get into is pretending like on every issue, like both sides are morally equivalent. Like, ooh, pro choicers get some things wrong, but pro-lifers do too. No, like one position is better. One position is more biblical.

No position is going to be perfect. But it's okay to not be a moral relativist. Like it's okay to just say, no, Republicans get it more right on the bigger things. It's okay to say that. And that no, being pro-choice, pro-legal dismembers. of babies is not morally equivalent to being against that, but maybe getting some things wrong on welfare. They're not equal. Another thing. Number three, I think I want to address. Disrespectful to Black Americans, he says. Okay. I know that over 90% of Black Americans, including professing Black

Christians, vote Democrat. It's been that way for a long time. Black churches are extremely overtly political. Personally, I think more so than any majority white Southern Baptist Church I've attended in my life. They're completely unabashed and supporting Democrats in the name of liberation. Like even Charlie Dates, who many evangelicals regard is Orthodox. And I'm sure, I'm sure he is in a lot of ways. Platformed far left Chicago mayor, Lori Lightfoot, called her Auntie Lori, at his church recently. But I didn't mention that in my tweet, nor was I talking about that at all. But I guess the accusation is that this is offensive to them because I say the Democrat Party is evil. But why would my assessment of the party change based on how many black people vote for them?

Like, it wouldn't matter to me if it were 2% black people voting Democrat or 100% of black people voting Democrat. The number of black, white, Hispanic people who vote Democrat does not change what it stands for. So why in the world would the number of any kind of person voting Democrat change what I think about the party? I think that the people who vote for them are wrong. No matter what the skin color is. Same response to his last comment. Nothing said here responds to the fact that abortion is evil. Enshrining it is evil. Fighting for it is evil. Absolutely. So that would be, that's my basic response. There are other things that I could say about the Ann campaign, like, and about Justin, I have no reason to doubt.

like his sincerity, his integrity, his Christianity. As I said, I've had him on before. So I'm, I'm not demonizing. I'm not attacking. I'm not telling you to like unfollow that. I don't care about any of that. I'm not, that's not my goal. I, the and campaign is run by people as far as I can see, as far as I know. And I think they're pretty open about this. So I'm not trying to paint them in a way that they wouldn't agree with. They, their history is all Democrat activism. Their history is all with the Democrat Party. So from my vantage point, they punch right, but tickle left, if that.

And they are effective, I think, in making a lot of conservative Christians feel that they shouldn't vote for their convictions on abortion or they shouldn't vote for their convictions on gender, that these issues aren't really as important. or that voting in alignment with your convictions on this issue. Well, I won't even say that the Ann campaign has said this. It seems that a lot of people who follow them seem to think that voting your biblical convictions is just about gaining power and forcing your views on other people. Look, a vote is forcing your views on other people.

That's what a vote is. You are bringing your worldview to the voting box and you are voting in alignment with your convictions, whether you're a Democrat or Republican, that's what everyone does. Of course, that's what Christians are called to do. So that's not me trying to demonize them or attacking. You should go look for yourself. Like, you should read their book. You should look at their website.

You should look at their social media page. You should look at their social media page. As I said, he and I do agree on some important things when it comes to our personal convictions. I think about abortion and gender in the family. I think personally, we probably agree on those things. I haven't asked him about all of his theological stances. I bet we align on a lot. we really disagree on how these, how to apply these convictions policy-wise. Like I would say that I feel

the same way as them, but the opposite, it seems to me from what I've seen, from the things that they've said, that they think both sides get it wrong in some ways, but ultimately that the Democrat Party is more compassionate on most things, whereas I see it as the opposite, that both parties get things wrong, but Republicans are far more right than Democrats. are on things. I've also invited Michael Ware of the AN campaign on. He, I believe, worked for the Obama administration and is a Christian, but I haven't been successful in getting him on. So that's my response to his tweet. I know some people will be like some moderates will be mad that I even responded to it. And again, because I don't end up agreeing with what he said that somehow I'm

unteachable or arrogant or maybe like I just disagree. Maybe I just disagree. There are a couple other people that weighed in that I wanted to point out, Ben Watson, who is a pro-life activist and author and former NFL player. And then also Latasha Morrison. She is the founder of Be the Bridge. And she wrote the book, Be the Bridge, which is about, quote, unquote, racial reconciliation. So I'll talk about that in just a second.

And I think this is important because you guys are going to get these kinds of responses and push back to in your advocacy for voting for supporting the legal right of babies. to live. All right. So Ben Watson, pro-life advocate, he responded to what Justin Gibney said

and said, the type of Christianity she espouses includes voting records for membership. In her world, she creates the standards for how Christians are

to behave. That's a dangerous role to assume. She is creating addendums to orthodoxy and tampering with idolatry for saying that Obama and the Democrat Party

and the ideology that actively celebrates, celebrates dismembring kids is evil. So I just have some questions about this claim. Again, saying so many things that I didn't say. I did not say that your vote indicates whether or not you are a Christian. And again, I've been very clear about that, as I just said.

Let me ask, is it creating addendums and tampering with idolatry to say that celebrating the Holocaust is evil? Can I say Nazis were evil? Chattel slavery? Or is that idolatrous? Like, would it be okay to say that the person and party that held the position that supports putting Jewish people in gas chambers that they're evil? Or do I need to nuance that position so as to make it less divisive?

Like, insert whatever other human rights atrocity you'd like. Force lobotomies pushing, you know, like I said, pushing Jewish people into torture chambers, gas chambers, Chinese railroads, Japanese internment camps. Like if we lamented the restriction or the abolition of those things and called enshrining the right to them hope, would it be okay to call that evil? Or are we supposed to pretend that maybe gas chambers for Jews and gypsies is a nuanced issue that Christians of varying Christian traditions can faithfully disagree on? Like abortion is no less evil than those things.

So I just don't understand why we, why we, why we. change why is that me setting standards of behavior like is it like is it evil is it evil for someone to celebrate the unrestricted access to killing children or not why is that controversial for a christian to say that Christians should not support the people that celebrate that it's it shouldn't be it shouldn't be and saying all these things like I'm disrespecting black Christians by saying that I am tampering with idolatry I'm adding to orthodox Okay, again, just replace abortion with any other human rights atrocity, chattel slavery, Nazism.

And let me know, like, if I should still be as nuanced so as to avoid idolatry and adding things to the gospel, adding things to people's salvation. Like, this is way reading into something that I said, same thing. that I absolutely did not say. Latasha Morrison commented on the Instagram post, because Justin Gibney also posted this to his Instagram, so I originally saw it. She said, honestly, I can't with her. Oh, so many, so many bridges being built. So she started the Be the Bridge curriculum. And this is supposed to be bringing black and white people together really it's more about ensuring that white people feel the weight of the responsibility

for the oppression of black people both today and historically that they own up to that, that they educate themselves about that. And I could do a whole episode. I probably have done at least segments of episodes on this, but instead I'm going to direct you, as I often do, to Neil Shinvi's blog post and review. I think he's a very fair person. He's a very fair person. He's a very kind person. I've had him on the show a couple of times. I will include the link of the review of her Be the Bridge book in the description of this episode. I really encourage you to read it no matter what side you're on because he goes through the biblical issues with the theological foundation that she tries to set for her definition of racial reconciliation.

And interestingly, like she's not called divisive by these same people, but she does make this a salvation issue. I heard her at the if gathering a couple of years ago basically say, yeah, there are people who push back against against what she's trying to do, but God always protects the remnant. Oh, okay. That's not divisive, apparently, but saying Obama is evil for supporting the unmitigated slaughter of children. That's divisive. So she says, honestly, I can't with her. And, you know, this is something that I've noticed, too, is like just the sassiness and responses from people. When I say something that, you know, I believe to be true strongly. And then I get people saying, wow, that's so mean, that's so divisive, that's so just wrong and unkind.

And yet they are so sassy. And again, using non sequiturs in their response, I see this all the time. I see this all the time. So this is from the Be the Bridge Facebook page just to kind of give you an idea. So this is like, these are part of the rules for the Be the Bridge Facebook page that is supposed to be bringing white and black people together. So these are rules specifically for white people. do not chastise people of color or dismiss their message because they express their grief in ways that you deem inappropriate. Understand that historically white people have silence voices of dissent and lament with our cultural idol of niceness.

Provide space for POCs to wail, cuss, or even yell at you. Jesus didn't hold back when he saw hypocrisy and oppression. POCs shouldn't have to either. Is that the same thing as Jesus turning over tables in the temple? Also, another rule that Be the Bridge has in their Facebook discussion group is don't get to offensive white people when you are called out for any of the above. When a POC tells you that your words tone behavior are racist, oppressive, or triggering, you stop.

Don't try to explain yourself. Don't become passive aggressive or sarcastic. Don't leave in a huff. It may be helpful to inconspicuously step outside, go to the restroom. Remain cognizant of the dynamics of white fragility and take note of how it usually shows up in you. Can I just read something really fast from the Bible? Can I just read something really fast? because this just reminds me this segment this is be the bridge that a lot of churches uses

their curriculum apparently to bring races together also listen to my friends darrell harrison and virgin walker about their take on racial reconciliation so let me just redo the section from james three starting in verse 13 who is wise and understanding among you by his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom but if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts do not boast and be false to the truth this is not the wisdom that kind of from above, but is earthly, unspiritual and demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exists, there will be disorder in every vile practice. But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial, impartial,

impartial, impartial, and sincere. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. Now, sewing peace doesn't mean that you can't say hard truths. It doesn't mean that you can't call some things good and some things evil. Not saying that. But when you just look at some of the rules, some of the regulations, some of the tenets put forward by groups like Be the Bridge, do you see impartiality? You know, in the Old Testament law giving, as we've talked about many times, one of the tenets of God's definition of justice, as we can see in scriptures, that is impartial. It doesn't defer to one class of people over another. He doesn't give preferential treatment to the poor.

He doesn't give preferential treatment to the rich when it comes to the law and lawgiving and trials and due process that we see in the Old Testament. He actually, God says it's evil to be partial to one party over the other based on socioeconomic status or based on any kind of influence. God hates partiality. So there's no like differing standard for morality or differing standard for kindness, differing standard for decency when it comes to white and black people. not according to God's word. Now, according to like this ideology, sure, not according to God's word. Like one person isn't more justified in being unkind or being unloving to someone because they have a certain skin color and the other person doesn't. That's not how it works. And so really, you're like enslaving people to this unbiblical double standard. And that is, there's no way. There's no way to make peace through that, not true peace, not gospel.

center to peace. You can manufacture guilt, sure, and silence and, you know, hanging your head, sure. But with those kinds of double standards for kindness and morality that are not seen in the Bible and are actually explicitly rejected by the Bible, it's hard to see how you are going to bring people truly together to a place of love and understanding and peace in a way that is actually biblical because biblical reconciliation first of all it doesn't happen between two races that don't know each other it happens between people it happens between hearts and there has to be a mutual humility understanding of our own sinfulness on both parts um so anyway that's that but she can't with me she says all right um and you know like i said this kind of like sassiness

in response to what you may see as harsh words um is it's very typical from this group of people who always talks about like elevated dialogue and like better politics and a third way. And I first noticed this, maybe not first, but I noticed this really prominently in 2020. My friend Virgil Walker, who I've had on a host of the Just Thinking podcast, he works for G3 ministries. He's been very strong on the life issue on the abortion issue for a very long time. He's done a lot of good works outside of abortion centers and things like that. This was actually in 2021. He responded to something that Charlie Dates. Charlie Dates, I mentioned earlier. He is a pastor of large church in Chicago. He commented on something that Charlie Dates said in a sermon,

and he called it CRT, like, Critical Race Theory Light, which I think is a very charitable description of some of the things that Charlie Dates has said. Well, Charlie Dates responded with this. So this is, I mean, this is taking it to such a greater level than anything Virgil Walker said. Charlie Dates said some Hebrews preferred Pharaoh to Moses and Egypt to Canaan. Harriet Tubman found it harder to get slavery out of the slave than to get the slave out of slavery. The boondocks had Uncle Ruckus, which is a cartoon character that thinks he's white. Now we have you. Okay.

So that's what, I mean, he is accusing. He's accusing Virgil Walker because Virgil Walker disagreed. with the progressive ideology that was that he says was being espoused by Charlie Dates. He called it CRT Light. And then Charlie Dates said, oh, because you believe this, you think that you're white. You're really, you have an enslaved mentality. It couldn't just be because he disagrees. Again, total non sequitur.

He doesn't even address what's being said at all. Just says that he is a black person who thinks he's white trying to gain the approval of white people. Benjamin Watson responded and said, kick rocks. Virgil Walker in Jesus' name. Justin Gibbon, he said, Virgil lacks his self-awareness to know that he's being used by people who need a black person to justify their families. He's entitled to his opinion, but it's pretty sad that he tried to show out at the expense of his brother and such a serious issue. Okay, first of all, like, our brothers and sisters are those in Christ, not those

who have a similar melanin count to us. So I'm not really sure what that means. And then you had people like Lecrae, like Preston Perry, all sharing these gifs in response, saying, you know, like rooting Charlie Dates on for calling him Uncle Ruckus and for saying that he's enslaved because he called Charlie Dates's words, CRT Light. And, you know, I probably shouldn't have inserted myself into this, but, you know, I always like to share arrows with my friends. And, yeah, it didn't. I tried to go back and forth with Ben Watson thinking because we've had back and forth before disagreeing and thinking, okay, maybe I can unify them on the life issue. That didn't work out very well.

Those tweets are still up. And so, yeah, I just noticed that a lot of these people who will claim that, like, I'm divisive for never using that kind of sassiness or that kind of pettiness or those kind of ridiculous comments, I can't with her. But actually, like, strongly saying what I believe is true, they'll say that's mean-spirited, that's unkind, that's unimpetitive, that's divisive. you'll see this kind of like behavior a lot, just taking it to like the next personal level and then cheering it on. So that's a little troubling.

And you know, I had a lot more to get into when it comes to Democrat abortion policies to just like remind you of how radical they are. I don't, I mean, it's already gone long. I don't really have time to get into all of that. But just like a quick, quick reminder that when Ben Sass tried in 2019, the beginning of 2019 to pass in the Senate, the born alive of Survivors Protection Act. He had zero Democrat sign on. It literally just said you have to provide health care for a baby that survives an abortion. So outside of the womb. And Democrats wouldn't do it. They wouldn't do it. Still, I mean, this bill is presented a lot to just, I think, mostly kind of show also how Democrats stand on this. And so it was presented again, January 2023. And Republicans voted for it. Only one Democrat voted for it from Laredo, Texas. One Democrat voted present. But the rest of the Democrats all voted no on providing health care to a

baby that survives an abortion. You'll remember that Elizabeth Warren, she's on a tear against pregnancy centers trying to make it as difficult as possible for women to access pregnancy centers saying that they're actually centers for manipulation and deceit when the exact opposite is true. That's true of Planned Parenthood. Of course, Biden supports abortion. As far as we see, doesn't support any abortion limits. Also supports overturning the Hyde Amendment. The Hyde Amendment protects our tax dollars from funding abortion on a federal level. He says no, we actually should be forced to pay for abortion with our tax dollars. You will also see the kind of rhetoric from people like AOC, from Supreme Court Justice, Sotomayor,

from all members of the squad and from the Democrat Party, decrying the overturning of Roe v. Wade, which simply allows states to restrict abortion. They think this is terrible. They think it's awful. They want to make it as easy as possible for women to be able to access abortion. And they'll even say things that are not true. Like Sotomayor said that women are more likely to die from birth than an abortion. But that's actually not true.

A 2017 peer-reviewed systematic analysis found 11 separate studies that examined death certificates linked to reproductive health records. And every one of the 11 studies showed elevated risks of death among women following abortion. And we already talked about some of the laws that have been passed, the policies that have been pushed in several Democrat states across the country to enshrine abortion as a right through all nine months of pregnancy. And remember in, I think it was 2018, 2018 or 2019 when we saw New York pass the law that really allows abortion for any reason through all nine months, again, as long as the mental health or emotional health of the mother is being protected in some way. apparently through this abortion and they lit up the skyline pink in celebration of that. Cheers came from the chamber. Cheers for the violent dismemberment of babies.

Representative Eric Swalwell, who is a representative from California, he is demanding the passage of the Women's Health Care Protection Act, which would strike down any abortion law or regulation in any state that isn't applied to a, quote, unquote, medically comparable procedure. And the legislation leaves it up to abortion doctors to determine what counts as medically comparable procedure. Strike down state laws establishing 24-hour waiting periods before an abortion is performed, informed consent laws. So you would be able to, so it would abolish informed consent laws. It would abolish any bans on sex elective abortions, and it would get rid of most health and safety regulations surrounding abortion. It would override all state laws.

And so this is what tyrants do. This is, you want to talk about power. You want to talk about forcing your views on other people. Democrats are trying to federally enthrine abortion as a right to make it impossible for states to restrict abortion. Of course, Democrats are the party of federalized power and trying to force their views on you. Ask Jack Phillips, which party he thinks is more hungry for power and forcing their views on other people. But it's true when it comes to abortion. The two sides are not morally equivalent. They're both imperfect. of them are salvific. But again, one side cheers on actively the dismemberment of babies. One side doesn't. One side doesn't strong enough on it. Republicans aren't strong enough,

but they're doing a lot more to protect these babies than Democrats are. One side cheers on the butchering of the bodies of gender confused children. The other side doesn't. Just on these two issues alone, it's, again, it's just not difficult. It's not difficult. It's not difficult. You could say Republicans can do better on issues. I certainly believe that. But to say that basically to believe that in order to really follow the way of Christ, we have to pretend that the two sides are equal morally in the issues that they stand for and fight against, it's just not true.

And it's not necessary. It's not necessary. We don't have to be moral relativists in order to be Christians in order to recognize the imperfection of our political system. And I wish I had time to get into the racist history of abortion, the racist history of Planned Parenthood. You'll have to buy my book when it comes out next year to get all of that. Gosh, the connections between Margaret Singer and the eugenicist and Darwin and the Nazi party. I mean, it's just insane. So yes, I will reiterate once again, evil, evil to support abortion.

Evil of Barack Obama to say what he did. Evil ideology. Evil party, absolutely. We're talking about a human rights atrocity of vulnerable and defenseless image bears. As R.C. Sprole used to say, if I know one thing about God, is that he hates abortion. Grace abounds for those who have had abortion.

those who have performed abortions always. There's grace for all of us. But that should not take away from the strength that we have on this issue. It is evil. All right. That's all we've got time for today. We will be back here tomorrow, hopefully with a little bit of a shorter episode. We'll see you guys then.

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