Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 848 | Saving His Son from a 'Non-Binary' Future | Guest: Harrison Tinsley

Episode Date: August 1, 2023

Today we're joined by Harrison Tinsley, who is fighting for custody of his young son Sawyer, whose mother is raising him as "non-binary." Harrison shares his story of being denied the chance to meet Sawyer until he was over a year old, as well as his contentious custody battle for him. Currently, Harrison has half custody and spends every second of his custody time with Sawyer, choosing not to work those days. He shares about his ideological differences with his son's mother, which he never imagined would become such a big issue. Now Sawyer's mother is raising him "non-binary" and posting on social media about his supposed "gender identity," when in reality, Sawyer has expressed that he is, in fact, a boy. This, along with the mother's concerning multiple mental health problems and a previous safety incident, led Harrison to file for full custody, which he was denied. Harrison claims his son knows he's a boy and wants to be a boy, and Harrison is fighting to keep him safe and happy with who he is. Help support Harrison's legal fees here: https://www.givesendgo.com/SAVINGSAWYER --- Timecodes: (00:42) Meeting Sawyer's mother and ideological differences (04:30) Not meeting his son for 15 months (08:23) Meeting his son for the first time (11:20) Custody & claiming Sawyer is "non-binary" (22:35) Sawyer knows he's a boy (27:12) Appealing for custody & California AB 957 (34:00) Spending time with Sawyer (36:00) Advice to other parents battling similar situation (39:17) Closing thoughts --- Today's Sponsors: EdenPURE — when you buy one Thunderstorm you get one FREE, this week only! Go to EdenPureDeals.com, use promo code 'ALLIE'! Good Ranchers — get $30 OFF your box today at GoodRanchers.com – make sure to use code 'ALLIE' when you subscribe. You'll also lock in your price for two full years with a subscription to Good Ranchers! CrowdHealth — get your first 6 months for just $99/month. Use promo code 'ALLIE' when you sign up at JoinCrowdHealth.com. PublicSq. — download the PublicSq app from the App Store or Google Play, create a free account, and begin your search for freedom-loving businesses! --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 653 | Losing Custody of Your "Trans" Daughter | Guest: Jeannette Cooper https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-653-losing-custody-of-your-trans-daughter-guest/id1359249098?i=1000574808916 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Harrison Tinsley is battling for the custody of his three-year-old son, whose mother is apparently raising him non-binary. Harrison is here today to share his gut-wrenching story with us. There are a lot of lessons that we can draw out of this. This is going to break your hearts, but it's also an inspiring story of the courage and the persistence of a father.

This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Alley. Check out. That's good ranchers. com. Code Alley. Harrison, thanks so much for taking the time to join Relatable.

I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So I saw your story, I think, originally on Daily Wire. And here's the headline, One Father's Nightmare Battle for three-year-old son, that mom is raising non-binary. So just take us back. Take us back to, I guess, when your son was born

and then everything that has happened since then. Okay, I'm going to take you back a little further. Go ahead. So I met a girl in the Bay Area, and we were at karaoke, we sang each other some songs, we fell in love, it was beautiful. And we started dating shortly after. And we never agreed politically,

but I always thought that that was something that didn't matter. Yeah. And I wish that were the case. But. Because you were more conservative and she was less conservative. Okay. So you were like, you were always kind of more conservative leading even being raised in California. Yeah. I was always a rebel. So it was natural for me to kind of not follow the crowd. Right. But you fell in love in the Bay Area. Yeah. She of course has wonderful qualities too. And she had some mental illness problems. And I always thought that, you know, again, that was just something that we could, you know, fight through together.

But so shortly into dating, just a few months, she ended up getting pregnant. And we were both thankful for that and excited, which is amazing. But then a few months into her pregnancy, she became really hostile towards me. And I was constantly getting threatened that I wouldn't see my son if I wasn't exactly who she wanted me to be, particularly in a political sense. She would say that I should go to like the woman's march or things like that. Why do you think that stuff kind of came up in pregnancy when previously it hadn't been an issue? So it had come up before, but there was just no threat involving, oh, you won't see your son if we don't see eye to eye kind of thing.

So now he was kind of a bargaining piece. Correct, at least from my point of view. It's how it felt. Okay, so there started to be some problems. And when she was saying, hey, you need to go to the woman's marcher, you need to align with me politically or else you're not going to see your son. How did you respond? I responded by saying, you know, that I'm not changing who I am. I'm going to love my son no matter what.

And there's no reason that we have to agree on everything to have a beautiful family. And then what went on from there? Just kind of more and more of that. And she ends up breaking up with me. Then I received, or then she demanded that we went to couples counseling. I was apprehensive at first, and then I agreed to go just because I wanted to meet my son. Yeah. And she ended up bailing on the two appointments I set up twice in a row.

And after that, I got a cease and desist letter from her. Wow. And so I respected that. And I didn't know when my son was born. I found out about a week after. Wow. And so you all had cut off communication while she was pregnant. You, would you, from your perspective, you were trying to make their relationship

or, and she expressed total disinterest and even hostility toward that. Correct. Okay. So you didn't know when your son was born and what happened from there? One of her friends reached out to me on social media and let me know that he was born. It was a very, I mean, even the few months beforehand in that it's such a weird feeling, feeling like a part of you is like missing. Yeah.

And unfortunately it goes on a lot longer than that. So find out he's born. I do my research and stuff and I figure out what I'm going to do. It was two months after he was born that I filed in court in San Francisco. And from there, you know, to establish paternity and visitation custody, and it took 13 months just for me to meet him. So it was a total of, yeah. So I didn't meet him until he was 15 months old. Oh my goodness.

It was a travesty. Yeah. And how did you feel during that time? I mean, just an unspeakable heartbreak. Yeah. You know, it's like a part of you is just like gone that should be there. Yeah. It's a really weird feeling.

And you felt like you would do whatever it took just to be able to meet him. Absolutely. Right. Did you try to reach out to her during that time or because of the legal process? Did you have to, you know, keep communication? Yeah. There was some communication between like her attorney and mine. Mm-hmm.

And they would always give us some impossible way of meeting him. But because of COVID rules, they would give us like a situation. And I think that's part of the reason it took so long, unfortunately. But that's life. And just so I'm clear, like, I'm not a victim. It's absolutely tragic. And I hope it doesn't happen to anyone else. But this 15 months longer, really, because of the pregnancy, too, made me a stronger man to, you know, be a better dad, a better man for my son.

So that's kind of the positive I take from it, you know, going through that pain and suffering. Could you explain that a little more? Yeah, you said it builds character. Kind of how did it do that and what do you mean? So what I mean is that amount of pain was so unimaginable that now it's the same thing as like if you go running every day. But basically that amount of pain was so horrible that now I don't let the little things get to me as much because I know what it's like to really suffer.

So I can stay happy in the, you know, the little ups and downs of life still. Yeah, it's kind of like, I mean, in a much more superficial sense, if you're training for a marathon, the day that you run the marathon, if you've already run that 26 miles or the 22 miles leading up to that, you can mentally tell yourself, I've done something this difficult before. So in that sense, you feel like, wow, I can weather a lot of storms if I was able to go through that. That's exactly right. So then tell us after that 15 months, I mean, how did you? Like, what was the breakthrough moment at 15? months that you finally got to meet him. It was right around my birthday and it was had been 15 months and we finally got a court date and the judge the judge said it was a shame that I hadn't seen him in so long and that visitation is going to start immediately. Well that's good. Yeah it was good. Unfortunately though it was supervised at first not professionally. I don't know if you know the difference but it's I don't. So professionally it would be like a court appointed like psychologist or something like that so It wasn't that.

Yeah. But it was just someone of her choosing. So it would be like her friend or dad or whoever. Yeah. And that kind of, that made it, unfortunately, a little less positive of an experience because there was some weird things that

happened. So did she claim that you were like in some way a danger to the child or a danger to her? Like did the cease and desist help her case in keeping you away from him for so long? I don't believe so. I think the cease and desist helps my case, generally speaking. But she did.

claim later on or right around then during the court dates abuse when we were dating, which was completely untrue. And I've proven that to be untrue in court. Okay. And that is a fact. Okay. And the supervision then, why was that? So she was requesting professional because of her abuse claims. So but the court didn't find that to be credible. So they just said, okay, we'll just have someone come so that the kid's comfortable because it's someone that the kid already knows. just in case he was uncomfortable with me or whatever, which was not the case at all. It was like immediately. Really?

He knew, yeah. Yeah, tell me about that moment. What was it like when you saw your son for the first time? Just breathtaking wonder and magic, miracle frequency and all through the air. Yeah. I was like looking in his eyes and it was just the most beautiful thing ever. I remember, you know, doing headstands with him and we were looking at each other as we were like upside down. I remember he had to take a nap that day, so I put him down for his nap, and he was like fighting it, you know, like normal kid stuff.

And he kept crying if I would like leave him, right? Yeah. And he eventually finally fell asleep, and it all just kind of hit me. I remember he was sleeping and I was just laying there next to him and I was just sobbing on the floor. Yeah. Just like I've never done before, it was really a profound moment. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country

aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed,

you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Were there a lot of emotions associated with missing out on the first 15 months of his life? For the moment that you met him, did that kind of all go away? Well, it's definitely what you're thinking about beforehand. But in the moment I met him, yeah, it all went away. Of course, it's a tragedy. I mean, you know, you hear people that do these great things in their life,

like they're a Navy SEAL or they're a rock star. And they're like, the best day of my life is the day my kid was born. So, you know, I missed that day. I missed his first words, his first steps. Right. But, you know, that's all okay because me and him are making plenty of memories now. And we have a really, really close relationship. Tell us what's happened since then, because now he's three years old.

Yeah. And what did the visitation look like after that? Well, so I met him and I slowly got to spend more and more time with him. And the judge had hinted when I got granted that, that if I came to the Bay Area, I would get some custody. So I ended up doing the visitations, and I had moved to the Bay Area, and I was lucky enough to get granted half custody by the judge, like, very quickly. So that's something you were seeking after with your attorneys. I don't know exactly how the entire process works, and you still didn't really have communication with his mom during that time. A little bit. Like we would talk on the court app and just very briefly about him.

Okay. And so you were able to get half custody, but now you're seeking full custody. So tell us why. So I get granted half custody. There's a lot of... How old was he when you got half custody? Two-ish. Okay. So not too long ago. Yeah. Yeah. And that's right around the time she starts treating him as non-binary. So before this, she's treating him just as a boy that whole time. Okay. And then right about when I get half custody, she starts treating him as non-binary. And then she starts treating him as non-binary. So I'm non-binary. And how do you know this? From social media post from her. Okay. And did she have a post announcing, hey, my son or my child is non-binary? I don't know if she said it like that, but I mean, she would post pictures of him

in dresses and makeup and weird things like that. There was also one post. Yeah, there's a picture right there that we have. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I don't prefer to look at that. Yeah, I don't blame you. I don't blame you. But there's also a post from when she first announced she was pregnant on Facebook that I screenshot it, of course. And it was so we were still together. And her post was, baby Sawyer due in December, I'll love you whether you're a boy or girl or neither.

And at that point, you already knew that it was a boy. Yeah. Right. We were stoked when we found out it was a boy, even she was. We were both like super happy. Okay. I wrote a song called It's a Boy Even. I mean, we were both really happy about that.

And so when she posted that, I mean, I'm sure that kind of made you think, hmm, what exactly is going on here? So did you all have a conversation about it? I don't know if we had one about the post specifically, but there was conversations between her and I where she would ask me like, oh, what if our kids transgender? And I would say like, oh, well, that, you know, that's like a one in a million chance. And I wouldn't let my kid live in a delusion until they're 18. I just wouldn't, you know, go along with that. And that was, I think, part of all of this, but can't speak for her. Right.

Part of the conflict. And so she posted that while y'all were still dating. Y'all kind of had a conversation about it. But I imagine there was also a lot of disagreement just about y'all's worldviews in general during that time. So maybe that particular thing got brushed under the rug. Fast forward to where he's around to. And then you see that she has posting on social media, pictures of him and dresses and makeup and things like that.

And what's your reaction? I'm saddened. Yeah. And scared for my son. Yeah. But I just, I think deeply about it and decide, like, I'm going to do everything I can to fight for him and make sure he's happy with who he is and that he knows that there's boys and girls.

Yeah. So you're seeking full custody right now. And what has that process been like? And when did you say that you started? seeking full custody. Okay, so the story goes on. He's two years-ish. I get half custody. Yeah. Then we start seeing, first of all, right when I went half custody, there's defamation of me on social media, more of the claims of abuse, but posting it publicly as well as saying it to people. And so I gather that evidence to show the court because you're not supposed to speak badly about

the other parent in family court, you know, in case the kid sees it. And I think that's a good, that's a good rule, you know, if you want to think things on your own. time. That's one thing, but you're going to put something publicly where your kid can see it someday. Right. And particularly when the thing isn't true. Right. So there's lots of things posted about, you know, me that aren't true. There's things posted about my son wearing dresses and makeup, all this weird stuff, some text saying he's non-binary. And I believe she claims now that she's non-binary as well. But basically, there's the defamation of me. There's the gender. stuff, then I find out about an incident involving my son where his mom was arrested for child

endangerment and placed on 5150. And so that was... I don't know what that is. That's an involuntary psychiatric hold. Okay. Okay. That the police determine somebody needs. Right.

Okay. So you found that out and then what happened? There was a CPS investigation and there was, you know, the police stuff and, you know, the police stuff. And so we subpoenaed all the body cam footage and the police report and the 911 call and got all this evidence. And it was really interesting because CPS actually had to contact me. But when they contacted me, they're like, oh, you have nothing to worry about. Like your son fell off of bed and there was a misunderstanding. And I was like, okay. And so I requested like some stuff. And I actually found out from my son's medical record, I was going through it and I randomly saw

this thing. I was like, oh, you know, mother placed on 5150 child, like, seen for head trauma, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, what the heck? And then that's when I subpoenaed all the stuff. And we got all this evidence and I was obviously freaked out. I mean, it was extremely, extremely scary. So that's one of the main things I brought to court as well. And so I brought that and the gender and the defamation as well as I was granted a temporary restraining order on her for defamation and harassment of me, which she violated. And so I get granted a five-day trial, which is extremely fortunate. A lot of people just get a short hearing, and their whole future is decided.

And when is the five-day trial? It happened in December. Oh, it already, okay, it already happened. So tell me about that. So I felt extremely confident about this trial. We had loads of evidence, like over 850 pages. We had witnesses and police officers and evidence basically saying that you need for the protection and the well-being of your son to be, to have full custody.

Yeah, to have full custody and then, you know, at a very least, like a majority. Yeah. Okay. And essentially, I felt really good about the trial. And I didn't think they were very convincing on anything they said. They had almost no evidence. and after the trial, I was waiting anxiously, and two months later, I got the decision from the court,

and they decided that they were going to keep custody the same, and that they wouldn't rule on gender, and that my son had to continue to see the doctor that the mom preferred, which is a doctor that was in the trial, and she said that, in her opinion, it's okay to treat kids as non-binary when they're young. And what's rule on gender? Like how how how how does the court rule on gender?

Well, they said they can't to be fair. So but but essentially I was asking them to to make it that we both have to treat him as a boy. Oh, okay. And so we're like, we're not going to decide that. Yeah. Okay. And then what happened? Then I was kind of devastated a little bit.

Yeah. I couldn't believe it. I was that confident about our evidence in the trial. So still have custody. still have custody and I sad but I was also thinking strategically like I if okay if they're not going to protect my son I am so what can I do to protect him because I'll do anything for my son I love them more than anything I love being a dad more than anything in the world more than I love music more than I love sports being a dad transcends all that it's a love I didn't even know I could

feel, you know, I mean, it's just literally the best thing ever. And so I decided I'm going to scream it from the rooftops and tell as many people, you know, what's going on and try to get support that way. And I'm appealing the court's decision to a higher court, the appeals court. And I thankfully, Daily Wire broke my story for me. And I'm super grateful for that. helped me raise money for attorney fees because I'd spent all the money I'd saved in my life already on attorneys and yeah so that's where I'm at now is I'm just speaking out and it's now it's become more than just protecting Sawyer it's also about protecting all kids because you see yeah all these anti-parent bills in california and just general devastation of kids

And how often is he with you? Half the time. So I have him, unless it's a vacation, I have him for three days, four days, three days, four days. Oh, wow. That's a lot of back and forth for him. And tell me what he's like when he's with you. Do you think that there is confusion about his gender when he's with you?

Not at all. He expressly says he's a boy. He confidently says he's a boy. He loves being a little boy. You say anything else or give him too girly of a toy. He'll actually yell and scream at you. I'm not a girl. I'm a boy. Like yell and scream like upset. When he's told me things like, just breaks my heart. It's, yeah, it's sad. And does he tell you what it's like when he's with his mom?

Like does he express like, I don't want to go? Or what's that like? No, like he loves his mom, which is good. You know, and like she has some mental illness problems, but she has wonderful qualities as well. And I want him to love his mom, you know? Right. Yeah, that's good for him. Right. He does express sadness if she makes sense. and put on girly clothes, though. So when he told me about the Disneyland thing as an example. What's that? What's a Disney?

So he went to Disneyland with her. And she had told me she was taking the Disneyland. He told me, obviously, this was like a year ago-ish. And it was a couple months after that, he was, we were eating dinner at my house. And he's like, Dada. When I went to Disneyland, I couldn't go on the rides unless I wore my princess shoes. And he was like, and he says it. And he's, you know, he looks down.

He's sad about it. You know, he knows that that that's. not right or that that's not what he wants to be doing. You know, I can tell by his voice and his looking down, you know, he's like saddened about it. And how do you respond when he says things like that? Well, you have to do your best to, you know, be positive. So you say, you know, that's not very nice. But you should stand up for yourself. You can go on all the rides in boy shoes. Yeah. You know, and you got to not let people force you to wear things you don't want to wear. And he's like, yeah, I want to wear my Mickey Mouse shoes, my boy shoes.

I was like, yeah. So he's doing a good job at standing up for himself as far as I can tell. And more recently, I've seen a lot less of any of that, but I don't know what goes on when he's with his mom for the most part. Right. That's really tough because, as you said, he loves his mom. Kids love their mom and probably wants to please her. Probably doesn't want to disobey her. and it's a tough job for a three-year-old.

He's three, right? Three and a half to stand up for yourself. I mean, that's just tough. If someone says this is what you have to do to make me happy, if a parent says that, then the child is going to do whatever they can to win that parent's approval. So that's, I mean, that's really difficult for him.

I do think it's good if he does stand up for himself, but that's such an unfair position. Yeah, I mean, Disneyland, like to go on the ride, that's like you took someone all the way to Disney It just seems like coercion. I just, I can't even fathom how anyone would do that or how anyone would, you love your kids so much. His mom included, I'm sure loves him to death. And why wouldn't you want him to be happy with who he is?

Right. And the other thing is, is now, so he always expresses he's a boy confidently. He loves being a little boy. He loves all the boyish stuff, you know, from wrestling to bike riding to fireworks to fighting. like he's just such a boy. Right. And it just seems like it's just so sad that anyone would want to take that from him. Yeah.

So you mentioned, and this is not to, you know, demonize genuine mental health struggles and, you know, mental illnesses. But you did mention that his mom struggles with mental illness. And the Daily Wire article talks about, you know, several PTSD, ADHD, anxiety, the mood destabilization, manic depressive. Apparently, her friends told police that she has a volatile alter ego named Lexi. So even with all of this,

the court still said, sorry, she gets half custody of this child. Yeah. To the best of my knowledge, she also has borderline personality disorder, which is a really serious disorder. And yeah, you know, The court was nice enough to look into it and investigate it somewhat and let us present our case.

But yeah, unfortunately, they thought it was best for him to stay 50-50, which I agree is probably the best case in most scenarios. Yeah. I just think in this particular one, it's a little more dangerous than that. Yeah. So you are appealing it to a higher court, correct? What does that process look like? I'm not too familiar with it, but we're doing it right now.

now. And essentially, you just give the appeals court all the stuff from the family court, and then they go over all of it. And you have to present a case of why you think they wrote case law or, you know, that got it wrong on the facts and evidence, things like that. And you have to present that and they go through everything and then make a decision. And what do your attorneys think about the media coverage of this? Like you coming on this show? He says, you know, as long as you tell the truth, it should be all right. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, I think that's the only thing that you can do. It's obviously in your interest and in the interest of your son. I'm sure that there's some concern with just the location of the case being California. I mean, you know, AB 957 cleared the state Senate Judiciary Committee instructs family court judges to award custody and visitation rights based in part on a parent. Affirmation of the child, so-called gender identity. You actually spoke to the California Senate Judiciary hearing earlier this month about that, or I guess last month now, about that. So tell us about that and any of your concerns involving that. Yeah, well, it's a terrifying bill.

I think it could, you know, harm thousands of families. You know, in family court, people oftentimes lie and just do whatever they can to win custody or to get back at their, ex-husband or wife. And I think that's really unfortunate. But that's the reality of the situation. And this is giving people a new weapon to use at the sacrifice of the children. And I'm obviously against the bill. I was there that day.

And thousands of people were there, including people that would say I'm a leftist, progressive Democrat from San Francisco. And I oppose this bill. There's countless people were against it. And it's just horrifying to think that the government would want to put into law something like that. I actually had a conversation with the author of the Bill Wilson. We spoke for like seven or eight minutes, which was very kind of her to take the time. And she was actually very polite and nice to me.

And what did you have the opportunity to say to her? You know, I asked her. I told her my concerns, you know, and she said interestingly that she thinks the bill will help me because, you know, my son says he's a boy. So if she says he's non-binary, then she's not affirming him and I am. Which if you believed the leftist premise is that your kid could be non-binary because they should be able to choose their own gender. Now, I completely disagree with that and there's only boys and girls. However, if you believe that and that's your premise, then when your kids start saying over and over that he's a boy, he's made that decision.

So shouldn't you respect that decision as opposed to continue to say he's non-binary? That's what I don't understand. Right, right. If it's really about self-identity and expressing your true authentic self, then you should affirm it and you should simply agree and not argue when your boy says that he's a boy. It's interesting how it doesn't always go that way. Yeah. I'm happy to use their rules against them.

We'll see if it works both. There was a case here also in Texas with someone named Jeff, Jeff Younger, that is not the exact same thing. And so I just, I know that unfortunately it gets political. It really shouldn't get political. And just so people know, here's what the bill says. It says, in making a determination of the best interest of the child and a proceeding described in section 3021, the court shall, among any other factors that finds relevant and consistent, consider the following. the health, safety, and welfare of the child, and how they define that is partly affirmation of the child's gender identity or gender expression. Affirmation includes a range of actions and will

be unique for each child, but in every case must promote the child's overall health and well-being, which I think, you know, it's gender identity and gender expression. Obviously, I don't believe that gender and sex are separate categories at all. But obviously, it's a gender identity. I don't believe that gender and sex are separate categories at all. But obviously, it's a lot. very subjective and up to interpretation. And when you're talking about a child, like a child is so malleable and will in some cases say whatever their parent wants them to say. Like there's just no way of really verifying, verifying all of this. So it has the bill passed in California yet? It hasn't passed the assembly floor. And they, so when I spoke on it, they amended a little bit and

added some of what you just read. And they kind of just made it more vague. So I'm not sure it helped. but no it didn't they're going to get back in session in a couple weeks and i believe they'll try to pass it pretty quickly okay so you until then you still get him for half of the week and you're just doing everything that you possibly can to affirm his confidence in who he is as a boy yeah and i spend all my time with him like when i have my four days with him i don't work i just spend all the time with him oh really every second what do you all do when you're spending time together typically. We do hockey and baseball and football and we sing songs and we wrestle each other and we do fireworks and we go for scooter rides and bike rides and we go swimming. Yeah. And snowboarding if it's

winter. Just all the fun stuff. What is it like at the end of those few days every week? That's a really good question. It's, it's really, really weird because you know I have them and it's it's also amazing and then he gets picked up and it's just like a weird very weird kind of morose feeling and then you kind of worry about him yeah and just worry about him for a few days and then you get him back and it's amazing and then you you worry about him for a few days and I say a prayer every day to God it's always the same thing I always just say, dear God, thank you for everything in my life. I'm so grateful, please just protect Sawyer when he's not with me.

That's all I ever ask for. And I do that every day. Yeah. I think at this point, I mean, you're doing everything that you can possibly do as a father to pursue your child, to protect your child, and then trusting that, you know, God loves Sawyer, that he made Sawyer, that in all of this craziness and I think evil, in a lot of ways that there is some kind of purpose and plan. I mean, that faith, I think, is necessary because I'm sure it's easy to get discouraged

and just to feel like, oh my gosh, this is never ending. Yeah, I mean, spending so much time and money in court isn't fun, but he's worth it. I don't care how hard it is. I don't care how much pain it causes me. I'm never going to give up. I'm going to fight for him until my last breath forever as hard as I can. It's my duty as a dad. Mm-hmm. And what is your advice and encouragement, maybe to other people who are listening to this, watching this, who are going through the same thing. Like if you were to sit down, you know, across from a dad or maybe a mom who was also dealing with this and they were like, okay, you're ahead of me in this journey. Tell me, like, what is, what do you wish you would have done differently or like, what's your advice that you can give?

My advice would be you have to be courageous. You have to be willing to sacrifice whatever you need to, to go to court or to go to the capital and fight bills. You have to do whatever it takes to do what's best for your kid and keep them safe. You can't let the chatter of other people. Some people will tell you like, oh, you should just give up, you know, you'll just be in court forever and see your kid a little bit or whatever different things you hear. and it's all nonsense. Mm-hmm. If you believe and you take action,

you really can make a difference. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, how can people support you? You can follow me on social media, Harrison Tinsley, on everything, and I have a give Sengo,

give Sengo a saving Sawyer for attorney's fees, and you can pray for me and send me messages. Yeah. I do encourage people at the very least to send encouraging messages and to pray, not just for this situation. I mean, there are, unfortunately, a lot of situations exactly like yours. And I think we should all be interested in the well-being of children, the protection of

children, what is best for kids. And that's what I know the audience of Relatable is all after. So I just encourage people to encourage him and lift up the situation the best you can. Thank you so much, Harrison, for taking the time to come on. Is there anything else that you want to share? We have to protect kids. They're the most innocent, wonderful amongst us. They're the future.

And I think that that's the most important thing we can do. Yeah. Amen. I agree with you. Thank you so much. Thanks for taking the time to come on. Thank you. All right.

I hope you guys enjoyed that conversation or that you got a lot out of it. And just a reminder, there's so many complexities and details when it comes to these kind of family-centered legal story, child-centered stories. And there are so many things that we don't know that have gone on. We have Harrison's very sincere rendering. But that's really all we know. All we know is what he told us today. And so something to keep in mind also is that there are other image bears involved in this. As much as we are directing our frustration towards this mother, we also need to pray for her. And we need to remember that God created her and that he, wants to redeem her and heal her as well. And so as we are praying about the situation, the well-being

of the son being central to our prayers, we also need to remember both the mom and the dad and to pray for both of them equally as well. This is just, I know, just such a devastating, difficult story, but this happens. I don't want to say on a daily basis in the United States because I don't have the statistics for that, but probably much more commonly than we are comfortable with. And there are a lot of issues with family court that we haven't discussed thoroughly on this podcast. But it's just a reminder that we live in a very broken world, that the breakdown of the family has really difficult ramifications. And so it's something that we can mourn over, that we can do everything that we can to try to avoid, of course, in our own lives and also help others who

are dealing with that brokenness. But it also should increase our anticipation. for one day, Jesus making all things new. And there will be no more fracturing of the family. There will be no more lawsuits. There will be no more court cases. There will be no more injustice. There will be no more abuse. There will be no more stories like this one because everything will be as it always should

have been. And one day, justice and righteousness and peace will reign. So stories like this that just break my heart so much, they just increase my excitement for the victory that Jesus is sure to claim. And so anyway, do everything that you can to pray for all parties in this, pray for salvation, pray for redemption, and pray for healing in every facet. All right, we'll be back tomorrow with a few things. We're going to talk about my response to Andrew Tate and Candice. Owens' interview. They mentioned me, and so I got to say something about it. So we'll talk about that tomorrow, as well as a few more things. I've got a fun guest that you guys love. So thanks so

much for listening and watching. We will be back here then. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

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