Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 851 | 'Church at the Movies:' Helpful or Heretical?

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Today we're talking about the growing trend of movie-themed church sermons and series. We discuss Saddleback Church's recent "At the Movies" sermon series, which featured sermons on "Toy Story" and "Top Gun" and how those stories reflect some spiritual truths about us. We explain how the problem isn't stories or films themselves, many of which can indeed reflect biblical truths, but the focus on ourselves. Saddleback claims that "movies are a reflection of us – each story shows us a glimpse of the human experience." But church isn't about us, nor should it be. We explain the seemingly incessant need some churches feel to be seeker-friendly at all costs – sometimes even at the cost of biblical literacy. We also discuss a recent controversial Jamie Foxx Instagram post and the mob of teens who overtook Union Square in New York City last week.  --- Timecodes: (01:03) Intro (07:34) Church at the Movies (43:50) Jamie Foxx's Instagram post (52:04) New York City riots --- Today's Sponsors: Carly Jean Los Angeles — use promo code 'ALLIEB' to save 25% off your first order at CarlyJeanLosAngeles.com! ExpressVPN — have more anonymity online. Go to ExpressVPN.com/ALLIE and get three extra months FREE. Bambee — You run your business. Let Bambee run your HR. Go to bambee.com and type in "RELATABLE" at checkout. Jase Medical — get up to a year’s worth of many of your prescription medications delivered in advance. Go to JaseMedical.com today and use promo code “ALLIE”. --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 830 | Southern Baptist Debate: Female Pastors? | Guest: Pastor Tom Ascol https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-830-southern-baptist-debate-female-pastors-guest/id1359249098?i=1000618662036 Ep 765 | Can Women Be Pastors? SBC vs. Saddleback | Q&A https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-765-can-women-be-pastors-sbc-vs-saddleback-q-a/id1359249098?i=1000603031549 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Several churches across the country, including Saddleback Church in California, have done an at-the-movie sermon series where their series are based on popular movies. Is this an acceptable way to attract people to church? or is this an unbiblical distraction that we should be wary of? That's what we're going to spend most of our time discussing today. We'll also get to a couple more stories, one about Jamie Fox being accused of anti-Semitism and the author about the chaos that ensued in New York City last week. What do all of these things tell us about the gospel, about the word of God, about humans neediness for Christ?

We'll get into all of that today on this episode of Relatable. which is brought to you by our friends at Go Toad Ranchers. Go to GoodRanchers.com. Use Code Alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code Alley. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Monday. Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend at the start of your week is great. This is our last week before maternity leave. Today, I am 37 weeks. Praise God. I am just very thankful. When I get towards the end of pregnancy, obviously there are difficulties difficulties that come with that. But there's also so much gratitude that, wow, I'm so thankful that thus far I've had a healthy pregnancy by the grace of God. And so next week, we will be off for 12 weeks,

but you will still be getting a new episode Monday through Thursday. We've already come up with the schedule and everything for that for the next few months. And I'm super, super excited. We have very thoughtfully scheduled every episode. and I am so looking forward to hearing what you guys think about so many of these conversations and so much of what my guests have to say. A lot of the Q&As include some controversial topics that you guys have been asking me about for a very long time. So I'm really looking forward to you hearing all of those, watching all of those.

It'll help a lot if you not just, you know, listen and watch them even though we'll be kind of out of the news cycle, but also share them with friends and things like that. And of course, if you love the podcast, leave us a five-star review on Apple, subscribe on YouTube and all that good stuff. I'll still be somewhat active on social media. I'm sure I'm in full-on nesting mode right now. So I have like six different organizational projects going on in my home at any given time. And so I am a little unplugged right now. But I do have some videos coming out.

I've got some funny videos coming out this week. Okay. We don't always have time to do the funny videos because the podcast. take so much of our time and energy in a great way, but it just does. But we love to do the funny videos too. So we've got a few funny videos coming out over the next few weeks that have already been filmed, that are being edited. And then today we've got an announcement, a fun announcement that we are making with a fun video. And it will be an item that you can purchase. And that is what I will say. So stay tuned for that tonight and tomorrow. So lots of good stuff coming down the

pipeline. I will keep you guys updated. on the baby and all that good stuff. But thank you so much for your prayers, for your support. I've gotten several messages from some of you over the past few days who have just delivered your babies, and you just wanted to send me encouragement and a positive birth story, which every woman needs when they're about to give birth. And so thank you so much.

Thank you so much for that. A lot of people when they see me, they just remark, like, oh my gosh, you're very pregnant. And it's so hot outside. And I'm like, yes, it is. I am hot all the time. However, however, my overriding feeling is one of gratitude and excitement. And I actually feel considering how far along I am, I feel really good.

And truly, I am thankful for all of you, but thankful to the Lord also just for allowing me to be a mom. It really is wonderful. All right. I think that's all the housekeeping stuff. I have to say, it is Monday. So do the next right thing with excellence for the glory. of God that is always enough. And a constant reminder for myself right now as I am overwhelmed with

all these different things that I feel like I have to get done, the only thing that I can do, the only thing that I really have any control over is doing the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. I have to remind myself constantly that that is sufficient. That's efficient. It's efficient for you. It's efficient for me. No matter what is ahead of you, that's the only thing we can ever do. The next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God, and even that has to be powered by the Holy Spirit. So in the background, or a lot of times in the foreground, of everything that we're doing is constant prayer and asking for that strength, which God promises to supply us in Christ Jesus, which is great. Okay, today we're going to talk about a few

things. We're going to talk about a church series that maybe some of you have seen on social media circulating called At the Movies. And we are going to examine whether or not, not this is a biblical thing to do at church, whether or not church has really become too much of a production, too much of a seeker-sensitive movement rather than just exeating the word of God, or if this is just a creative way to serve your congregations and to attract people that may not go to church otherwise. And so we're going to look at all of that today, and then we're going to talk about a couple other things as you heard in the introduction. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand

that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality.

We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Okay.

So there has been some discussion, some debate on Twitter about this at the movie sermon series that is being preached at churches like Saddleback Church in California, but also several different churches across the country. And it's basically where a church dressed. up their staffers, dresses up their pastors, preachers, and decorates their church to look like a particular movie. And so let me show you the clip that's going around from two co-pastors, Andy and Stacey Wood, at Saddleback Church that has a lot of people talking on social media. Well, hi, Bo Peep.

Hey, Woody. Good to see you. Good to see you too. Are you at church? Yes, we are. Welcome to Saddleback, everybody. As you guys are being seated, tell your partner beside you, do you vote for Team Woody or Team Buzz? And I better hear a lot of Team Woody out there.

Okay, we got a Southern draw, little Bo Peep there in California. So if you don't know about Saddleback Church, they've been in the center of concentration. for the SBC, the Southern Baptist Convention, because they are allowing female pastors. And Rick Warren, who used to be the head of Saddleback Church, was in defense of allowing women to be pastors despite the biblical command that women not be pastors. There are many roles of ministry that women can occupy. And women, of course, can preach the gospel. They can be skilled with communication, there are lots of ways that women can and should be serving the church. But the office of pastor and the role of exegeding scripture in front of a mixed crowd or

a crowd of men is to be reserved for a man that's actually rooted in the creation order. I can link some past episodes where we've talked about that more thoroughly. That's not what this is about. So Saddleback Church has seen its a fair share of criticism. It's been in the center of conflict before. Let me tell you a little bit about what this sermon series is. And I welcome your thoughts on this. It might be possible that you and I disagree on our conclusions here.

And I'm interested to hear what you guys have to say. So this is from the Saddleback website. So Andy and Stacey Wood are preaching a summer series entitled at the movies finding inspiration in the stories we love. Here's the description from their website. And just so you know, I already have a problem. I already have a problem with that line at the movies finding inspiration in the stories we love. And I'll tell you why. But movies are a reflection of us. Each story shows us, I'm struggling to get through each word because I have a problem with every word so far. Shows us a glimpse of the human experience. Whether it's a team of superheroes defeating evil or the true story of one person's courage and conviction, there's

always a moral of the story. But what is it? And what does God have to say about it? Join us for at the movies, a cinematic summer experience at Saddleback. We'll be talking about blockbuster movies and how we can apply their messages to scripture. Not only that, but every campus will be decked out in its own movie theme. You won't want to miss it. The pastors will be preaching on Toy Story 4, a Lion King, Top Gun Maverick, and Jesus Revolution. So let me just go ahead and tell you. I was going to try to tease this out and explain this a little bit more, but I just, I can't leave that description alone without telling you exactly why I have

a problem with it. Because we are the center of it. We are the center. The human, the audience, the congregant is the center of this description. of this sermon series, that each story that we see in the movies is a reflection of us. Each story shows us a glimpse of the human experience. Superheroes defeating evil or the true story of one person's courage and conviction. There's always a moral of the story.

All right. That might be okay for a kid's devotional. That might be okay for a lesson for a bunch of kindergartners or maybe even a bunch of of sixth graders, that might be okay if you're going to the movies and you're going home with your kids and you're trying to give them a real life, godly application. Is that the role of the church? Is that the most educational, empowering, and edifying message for a pastor, for a preacher to bring to its congregants? Let us look away from scripture, look at these cinematic experiences and see how they reflect our own experiences, our own courage, our own

convictions, our own stories, our own journeys. Our sermon's supposed to be about us? Is church supposed to be about us? Even the headline or the description at the movies finding inspiration in the stories we love. There may be nothing wrong with that in general. I love stories. I love books. have always loved books since I could read, devoured books throughout school. And I think it's so important for us to read stories, even stories that are not explicitly Christian stories. I think movies are amazing. I love plays.

I love musical theater. I love a good story. I think we can absolutely gain lessons from stories, glean inspiration from stories. But is that what we're supposed to be doing at church? We can do that every day of the week. We can do that on Sunday afternoon. that's what we're constantly doing. We're constantly seeing narratives,

whether it's in the news or in the entertainment that we're watching or in the narratives that we're building in our head. Like we are constantly seeing stories play out. We have the opportunity to gain inspiration from these things. But on Sunday, we are gaining inspiration, education, and conviction from scripture. That is the story that we're looking at. I don't see the need to draw from secular stories from the point. pulpit at church in order to gain inspiration. Do you know how biblically illiterate the church is today?

Do you know how little most professing Christians even understand the gospel? Like if you look at a Barna survey, they conduct a survey every two years and they ask Christians or professing Christians different questions about the nature of Jesus, about who God is, about sin, about salvation, about repentance, about heaven and hell. There's a large percentage of professing Christians that do not know the basic tenets of Christianity. And so I just fear wasting time with this kind of entertainment when, gosh, the church is so desperate, so hungry for clarity that comes from the Word of God, sans distractions. And now I understand the argument.

I do. And I'm sympathetic to this argument. that look, if this attracts someone who maybe wouldn't go to a stuffy church, a traditional church with the pews and all of that stuff. And if this brings a family in who maybe didn't want to go to church before, but their kid heard about it from their friend at school, they love Toy Story and they love Top Gun. And so this family decided to go to church. And maybe they heard the gospel for the first time or they heard about Jesus for the first time. And so wouldn't that be worth it? Look, I think that that is in a non-folacious way a slippery slope. Is that what the church is for?

Is the church to accommodate constantly the non-believer with secular forms of entertainment so as to try to attract them to the church with something other than the cross? Like, is the aroma of Christ not sweet enough that we actually need Pixar to help us invite people to church? I just don't think so. So I have a problem with this because it's seeker sensitive and not all secret sensitive aspects of a church are wrong. Like there can be outreach, of course. I think that there are creative things, creative strategies, ways that we can use that we can employ to try to get people to church. Of course. But the church's function, the church's primary function is to build up the body of Christ. And so for the person sitting in the audience who maybe knows the gospel, they know the basics of Christianity already, but they need to understand theology.

Like they need to really understand by grace through faith. They need to really understand how to love their wife as Christ loved the church. They need to really understand how Genesis 1-1 applies to all different aspects of society and their own lives, whatever it is, whatever theological issue that you want to name, is that what they're getting out of this? Now, maybe they are. I've seen the notes from the sermons. I did not sit in saddleback and see all the sermons. So I'm not even saying that every sermon was bad or every sermon was unbiblical. I have my questions. I have my skepticism about. that, but is this edifying and equipping the church? I just don't know. This seems like a distraction

to me. I went to a church several years ago when I lived in another state and I walked in, actually two churches, two different states, but in the same region. And one was in college, one was right after college. And in both scenarios, these churches, which were very similar, not connected to each other, but very similar. They were singing secular songs in order to try to, you know, fit themselves into the sermon, which I don't necessarily think is always bad. Like, I don't think, I'm not like freaking out about that and saying, oh my gosh, how sinful that you would sing a so-called secular song.

Everything can be used, of course, to the glory of God. But is it the most edifying? Is it the most equipping to sing a song by Michael Jackson? Like there's no Christian song in our entire Rolodex that speaks explicitly, specifically to the glory and the holiness of God. There was none, like there was no song that you could have picked that reiterates scripture or that repeats scripture so that we know that the words that you're singing are actually inerrant and infallible because they're just repeating God's word.

Like, isn't that the better way to go? I think we need to kind of rethink how we approach what is acceptable in church or really what's acceptable in our own lives away from is this kind of permissible. Can we finagle this to be acceptable biblically? And rather think what glorifies God the most? What is the best way to glorify God? How can we make this as little about us, is little about human. experience as little about the congregate and the most about Christ. Now, that doesn't mean.

I'm not saying that we cannot have application in scripture or that we can't have humor in scripture or that we can't have stories and allegories and anecdotes and examples. I think that preachers should be dynamic. Not perfect in communication, but I think that they should be darn good at communication. They should be able to capture someone's attention. not with a bunch of distractions, but with the compelling way in which they are able to expose it God's word. And that can include application because the word of God is not about us. The gospel is not about us, but it is for us. And so, of course, I think real life application can be good. All these

examples and that's fine. Real life application can be good, but we are not the center of it. We're not the main character in the biblical narrative. We're not the star of the show. We're not David in the story of David and Goliath. Like we're not Moses in the story of wandering through the wilderness. Like we are not stand-ins for these biblical characters. All of these characters, all of these stories point to Christ. Now, maybe that's their argument. Maybe they're saying, look, every story out there points to Christ. But it's just hard for me, knowing like the urgency of people understanding the gospel, knowing the dire hunger and thirst that the church has for real substantive theology and clarity when it comes to issues that is only found in the Word of God. It's hard for me to justify

wasting any time whatsoever on frivolity and silliness. you know it's hard for me to justify that it's hard for me to find an excuse for that again i could see this for kids i could see this for your first grader because maybe that is the only way that you can capture their attention but for equipping the saints and the members of the household of god for equipping the evangelists the shepherds the teachers is this cutting it i just don't know i just don't know So as I said, there were several sermons. And I'll kind of just go over those for a second. And then I'll look at some other examples because it's not just Saddleback Church.

Several other churches are doing the same thing. And I'll share some of my thoughts on that. Okay. So if we look at the examples of some of these sermons, because we have all the notes from the sermon. So I don't want it to seem like I am trying to misconstrue or wrongly convey what was being talked about. I'm really not trying to be unfair. Because look, I mean, if God uses any of these, any of these things to bring someone to himself, I mean, praise God.

That will be a credit to God, not a credit to these strategies, but I will be thankful for that, okay? And I don't want it to seem like I'm indicting every single motive or every single person that's involved with this. There are a lot of people who are very talented and using a lot of different creative strategies for the church that feel that they are doing the right thing. I'm looking at overall, is it correct? Is it the most edifying, the most glorifying to offer what I think are distractions in the name of being

seeker sensitive rather than functioning as what the church is supposed to function as, which is building up the body of Christ, the equipping of the saints? So a few sermons that we saw from Saddleback, which as I said, I have problems with Saddleback anyway, because they have female pastors. The Toy Story sermon finding purpose and unexpected places. Toy Story 4 really depicts God's heart for us. They say Woody symbolizes people who may feel past their prime. And to those, I'm struggling. I'm struggling. I'm struggling to read this. To encourage people who feel past their prime, Andy Wood shares Ephesians 2 8 through 10. I don't know what version this is. I know the ESV. It says God saved you by His grace when you believed and you can't

take credit for this. It is a gift from God. Sounds like maybe the message. But so he's basically saying, you know, Woody might represent if you're past your prime. But look, God has a purpose for you. Forky, the fork created by Bonnie at school, God lovingly created each one of us. Gabby Gabby, the doll who is missing her voice box. Like Gabby, we are all stuck between our dreams and our current reality. I want to cry. And it goes on and on and things like this. Again, my problem with this is that it's about you. It's about you. They're looking at stories and not even seeing like how this reflects the heart of God necessarily, not saying that they never mentioned that, but that these characters reflect you and how you feel and how it's so hard for you. It's how

difficult for you. And I understand life is difficult. People want to be seen and heard and understood and reflected and represented. And I understand that. I get that. And there is something to appealing to those desires that we have as human beings. But it can't be about that. We're not central. Like I'm not trying to promote my book, but I'm saying this is why, this is why I wrote this book. Because we are constantly being given this message. You're enough. Just love yourself. You're the most important thing. You're, happiness is supreme. You're the center of it all. You're perfect the way that you are. You can live your truth. You deserve your dreams. Whatever it is. We are constantly told these messages. We don't need to be

told those messages when we go to church. The world is constantly telling us that. They're constantly telling us you're enough. They're constantly telling us you're sufficient. They're constantly telling us to feel bad for ourselves, to turn every hard experience into trauma, to justify every difficult or every bad characteristic that you've had is just some sort of like quirk that other people need to tolerate. We're constantly being told that we should worship ourselves, center ourselves, idolize ourselves. The last thing that we need to be thinking about when we are at church is ourselves. Yes, of course, repentance from sin. Yes, of course, our neediness from God, but even all of that is focused on Christ. We don't need to go to secular stories. We don't need to

to see how our human experience is reflected in them at church. We need to go to the greatest story ever told, the truest best story ever told, which is the narrative of Christ and to understand who Christ is. And yes, also how we graciously, wonderfully, redemptively fit into that grand biblical narrative, which is not about us, but is about Christ.

There is liberation. There is freedom and self-forgetfulness in the self-denial to which Jesus calls every single one of his disciples. There is so much beauty and so much satisfaction that comes from the self-impting that is required of Christ's followers. And are we getting that from a sermon that is about toy story and how we are like forky? Just something to consider. And then there was a top gun sermon.

And Andy Wood, again, points to the different ways that Top Gun reflects biblical truth, reflects our experiences. Some things will change whether I want them to or not. Some things won't change even if I want them to. Some things can change, but it's up to me to change them. Okay. Some things won't change. She looks at Maverick's skill as a fighter pilot. It doesn't change from the.

the first maybe to the second, but he's still haunted by the guilt. He feels for the death of his wingman. Goose. Spoiler. Sorry. If you haven't seen the original top gun. And then he points to believers who may be struggling with guilt or regret. And then he says, God never changes, which is true. Hebrews 138. He also says, it is important to see the world through the lens of God's word, not the word through the lens of the world, which I agree with, although that is exactly kind of what this sermon is doing. You are literally looking through the lens of maverick top gun to exeat scripture. And this, of course, is not exegesis. All of this is Isogeesis. I exeget taking out the meaning from scripture by

going to scripture and saying, what does this mean? Not just what does this mean to me or what does this mean for you or what does this mean at this time, but what does this mean? There are all sorts of expository methods to be able to glean the meaning. We look at the original Greek and Hebrew. We always look at the context. That's the most important thing. The context of the chapter, the context of the book, the context of the entirety of scripture. And we ask, what does this mean? Within that, there may be application, but you are not the center of any passage. Issa Jesus is bringing meaning into the text. A lot of you know this, but some of you don't. So if that would be like me saying, I want to look at a message or I want to create a message about

leadership. And so I go into scripture and I find all of these different verses that fit into the topic of leadership. I said Jesus isn't always bad. It's not always wrong as long as the meaning is still the meaning. Like you are using all of the context of each verse and this verse really is about leadership. It really is applicable. It really does make a biblical sense in light of all of the context.

That can be okay. As long as we are not inserting meaning into the text that is not really there. And really, the best form of consistent preaching is exegesis, going verse by verse, and exegeding, lifting out the meaning of the text in light of everything that we know about scripture, the character of God that we see revealed in scripture. So this is a bad case of Issa Jesus in which we are taking a movie and we're starting with a movie. We're not really starting with the Word of God. We're starting with the movie and saying, what does this movie say?

And can I find verses that fit in to this meaning that I have drawn out of the movie? That's not giving anyone a proper understanding of scripture. You're not giving anyone context. You're not helping anyone understand these complex theological. or even societal issues, you are trying to fit meaning into the text, which may or may not be there. Now, I'm not saying that there is no truth shared in any of these sermons or anything helpful. There may be truth shared. But again, is this how we handle the Word of God from the pulpit?

Is this what the church is for? Is this equipping the saints for the work of ministry? I would say no. I would say no. again, maybe for a kindergarten class, not for saints and members of the household of God, not for adults. And like I said, it's not to saddle back. There are several churches doing this. Life Church in Colorado also did an At the Movies. And there is this video that someone posted on Twitter showing this incredible, truly, incredibly impressive Star Wars, these Star Wars decorations at Life

church. All right. So again, incredibly impressive. I do want to give kudos to the people who use their God-given skills and their creativity to make things like this. If you're watching, you can see the decorations how intricate they are. I'm sure they took so much time and effort. And so, I mean, I applaud the people who used their gifts for this. I think that that's amazing. And I am not against people using their gifts in creative and artistic ways. There's also Lake Point Church in Dallas, Faith Church Lawrenceburg in Tennessee, Free Chapel in Georgia. There was a Barbie sermon series at several of these. I also think like it's a little bit troubling because unless you as a church are endorsing the entire message of all of these movies, it's a little weird to promote

them and try to use them to attract people to your church, right? Like, you are basically giving free advertising to all these movies. So are you endorsing everything that happens in Barbie? Like, you know, there was literally a joke in Barbie. I didn't see it, but I saw this clip. There's a joke in Barbie about gay masturbation. Like, there's a joke in Barbie about, you know, premarital sex. Whether you think it was some kind of conservative satire or some feminist screed, I think

as a church, you should ask yourself, are these all messages that we want to promote? If we are putting the thought in people's mind that they should go see Barbie, is God going to be glorified by that? Are they going to be sanctified by that experience or not? The same thing with Top Gun, I'm not saying that no Christian should ever see these movies. Should the church be promoting them? Are they all biblical messages that, again, are edifying and equipping the body of Christ? What's the church is supposed to do? I don't know. And you have like little girls dressed up in, you know, their Barbie outfits and you've got the Barbie paraphernalia everywhere. Like this is not a kids movie. Do you want these little girls to say, well, you know, my church said it was fine. We're doing a

whole Barbie theme at my church. Should these nine-year-olds go and see Barbie and hear the gay masturbation? I don't think that's something that the church should be endorsing. And so this is the problem with a seeker sensitive at all cost. This is the problem with the whatever it takes mentality when it comes to trying to get people to come to your church. Look, the aroma of Christ is sweet enough. Like the love of the church, the role of the church as a beacon, a refuge of clarity in the midst of chaos, that is enough. Like the gospel is enough. Scripture is enough. We are not so. evolved that 2,000 years later suddenly the message that Christ preached isn't good enough. I think a lot of people do think that for the unbelieving world, we have to soften the word of God, that we have to kind of like let God off the hook by saying, oh yeah, I know you've heard about this judgmental guy, but don't worry, we have a lot of fun too. And we have a lot of fluffy stuff and then we'll get to the difficult stuff later. Look, we don't have time for that.

life is tough. We've got a lot of complicated pressing issues. We've got souls on the line. We've got hearts at stake here. It is not the time for Barbie themed church events. It's not the time for distractions. It's not the time for watered down sermons that don't really teach us anything. It's not the time for self-centeredness. It's simply not. It is time for the church to get serious about understanding, teaching, and applying the Word of God. And I know some of you might say, but what? Not everyone is there yet. Not everyone is there yet.

Some people need this. Some people need the soft stuff first. Okay, it's true that infants need spiritual milk. I would say this is not even that. And a lot of cases, this is sour milk. No one benefits from that. Like when we talk about infants, new people in the faith or people coming to the faith needing milk, like,

We're talking about the importance of John 316. Not that all of us don't need that, no matter what stage of Christianity you're in. Of course you do. But like, that's talking about the basics of the gospel, the basics of truth. That's what we're saying. We're not saying that you need to compare yourself to Woody in order to understand the gospel. Like, remember that the Holy Spirit is so powerful. The Holy Spirit works through the Word of God.

The Holy Spirit works through the gospel. that person that you think could never understand the Bible, that person that you think would never be attracted to the church, that person that you think would never like singing hymns, that person who you think could never pay attention to a whole sermon, you are discounting the power of the Holy Spirit. That does not need these movies, does not need this hoopla, does not need all of this silliness to attract people to the cross. The cross has always been enough.

and it is our joy as believers, our service as believers, our love, our boldness, our strength, our stability, our soundness of mind, our fruit of the spirit that is supposed to attract people to church through the power of the Holy Spirit, not even our own efforts in that. So again, I'm not against fun. I'm not. I'm not against creativity. I'm not against utilizing the skills, the gifts that God has given people, artistic, creative gifts to serve the church and to create a beautiful church service, to create a beautiful church building, a really dynamic and compelling sermon, beautiful sounding music that aligns with the Word of God. I'm not saying that everything needs to be stoic and utilitarian and boring and that our kids ministries should just basically be

like that episode of the office when Dwight creates a nursery and it's just a bunch of like leftover pencils. I'm not saying that. Of course it can be beautiful and fun and entertaining, but the point is that Christ must be central. Not just a character, but the main character, the glory of God, the cross, the gospel must be so all-encompassing and so main in any production that we put on in any program that we try to produce in any sermon, in any service, that there are no distractions like this. There's no reason to try to fit in secular stories to the Bible and the hopes that people will just be entertained. It's not the point of the church. It's not the point of the church. Let me read you the verse that I have been referencing or paraphrasing a few times here.

Okay. Ephesians 411 and He, Christ, gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds, and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God to mature. manhood to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ so that we may no longer be children tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine by human cunning by craftiness and deceitful schemes rather speaking the truth and love we are to grow up grow up in every way into him who is the head into Christ from whom the whole body joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped when each part is working properly speaks or makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

That's the purpose of the church. Let's leave behind childish ways and let us grow into the stature of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the fullness of Christ. Are we there yet? I don't think we are. So it doesn't seem like there's a lot of time. and a lot of leeway for these kind of juvenile games that seem to be being played at a lot of churches these days. Okay, so I don't know if you guys have seen some of the controversy surrounding Jamie Fox.

Jamie Fox, the famous actor, he posted this on Instagram. They killed this dude named Jesus. What do you think they'll do to you? Hashtag fake friends, hashtag fake love. now a lot of people are calling this antisemitic actor jamie fox's headlines as post horrifically anti-semitic message to his 16.7 million followers he deleted the post he posted an apology he said i want to apologize to the jewish community everyone who is offended by my post i now know my choice of words have caused offense and i'm sorry that was never my intent to clarify i was

betrayed by a fake friend and that's what i meant by they not anything more i have uh i only have love in my heart for everyone I love and support the Jewish community. My deepest apologies to anyone who was offended. Actress Jennifer Anderson got caught up in the scandal after an Instagram screenshot showed her name on the likes list. She denied that she had intentionally or unintentionally liked the post, which she described as anti-Semitic. I guess she posted that to her IG story. So I think that this whole thing is very strange. This like blew up on Twitter, people automatically assuming this is anti-Semitic. I didn't see any other contacts that would make anyone think that Jamie Fox is anti-Semitic.

And here's the thing. I mean, here's how I would have taken this if I would have seen it. I don't follow him. But if I would have seen it, I would have taken that as, I mean, a poor understanding of scripture. It's not about like fake friends and things like that. but I would have taken it as the world hated Jesus and so and betrayed Jesus and so the world is going to betray you too. That to me is why he was communicating. I'm not sure why people read Jewish people

into that except for you just see what you are conditioned to see. And so you are going to be offended by something by reading into something that's just not there. Jennifer Anderson like apologize or like saying that oh I'm so sad that people were you know offended by this or this was wrong or whatever again people just say the things that they are supposed to say Jamie Fox's apology I mean it was nice but I mean clearly it wasn't anti-Semitic anyone with eyes can see that anyone with any knowledge of scripture can see that there are a couple verses that came to mind and based on his apology I think that this is probably what he meant again not a good use of scripture, but I can see what he meant. Matthew 24 and 9, then they will deliver you up to tribulation

and put you to death and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. So that is Jesus saying that, look, you're going to be hated like I was hated. If they hated you, the world, if the world hates you, remember that they hated me first. Jesus also said that. And so again, this is an example where we shouldn't try to insert ourselves into the passage and try to, apply this verse, which is about Christ and about those who follow him to every difficult situation of our lives. But it is applicable in the sense that if we are really believers in the same way that the world hated Jesus and hated his message, those who didn't believe him, hated him with a vile hatred, then we have to expect that those of us who carry his gospel too will also be

hated and will also be rejected and will have to suffer many things because of the gospel. However, I do want to deal with this controversial piece because I have seen people say, I guess because I read this verse at some point, I have seen people say that if you say something like the Jewish people deliver Jesus unto death, people will say that is anti-Semitic, which maybe I've said before on this podcast. And I've seen people say, oh, that's antisemitic. That's a terrible thing. You can't say that the Jewish people killed Jesus. It was Rome. It was the state. Well, I guess it depends on how you want to define anti-Semitic. I won't define that for you, but it is biblical.

I mean, all Christians who believe the Bible, and by definition, if you're a Christian, you should believe the Bible, believe that the Jewish people who were with Jesus at the time and who were with Jesus or who were there before Jesus' execution did have a hand in delivering him up to death. Now, that is not an excuse to be hateful or rude toward all Jewish people. That's not saying that there is anything innate about Jewish people that we should oppose or, you know, be hateful. That's not, that's not it. But to say that believing something that scripture clearly says is true, it's anti-Semitic, okay, that's a take. That's fine. But this is part of Christian doctrine. Acts 22 through 24. Peter says this. This is his sermon at the Pentecost. Men of Israel, hear these words. Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus of Nazareth.

A man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst as you yourselves know, this Jesus delivered up according to the definite plan and for knowledge of God you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. God raised him up losing the pangs of death because it was not possible for him to be held by it. So that's scripture. Yes, Christians do believe that the Jewish people at the time, that the Jewish religious leaders, that the Jewish people who said release Barabbas, but execute Jesus, of course, had a hand in it. Again, that's not an excuse for hatefulness towards a group of people or for meanness, unkindness, discrimination. That's not what it's saying. But to say that reading that

verse or believing that tentative Christianity is anti-Semitic, okay, okay, but that is what scripture says. And so that is what Christians believe. Now, I don't think that's what Jamie Fox was saying. at all. But I have seen people say that you can't say that Jewish people at the time had any hand in crucifying Jesus without being an anti-Semite. I just wanted to clear up. Like, scripture does teach that. And this was the necessary message of the gospel that was being preached to the men of Israel at the time in Acts 2. So just an FYI. Okay, I wanted to clear that up. Let's see. One more thing. One more thing that I had to say. I don't know if you. you guys saw the full-on riot that broke out in New York City and Union Square and people

just destroying property and reveling in this anarchy and the destruction that was being right. Let me play you a clip of that in just a second. And then I'll tell you kind of the biblical thing that I was thinking of. All right, here is a clip of what was going on in New York City over the week. weekend and last week. All right. So if you're listening to this, they're jumping out of car and destroying all kinds of property. There are tons of young people yelling about this. A lot of news outlets covered this. There was a Twitch streamer. It's a live stream gaming service, gamer Kai Sinat. I think that's how you pronounce his last name plan to give away PlayStation

5's computers, microphones, other gaming accessories at the real life meetup scheduled for Friday afternoon. He had been posting it to social media. I can. can't even read you the message that he says that he put out for his followers because it says the N-word so many times. When Sennat arrived at the park to do this giveaway, he was immediately mobbed by thousands of cheering fans within 30 minutes. The crowd turned violent. Riders began tossing cones, bottles, rocks, and brawling with each other. The chaos resulted in the arrest of 66 people, including Sinaat, and 30 minors. And so there are so many videos. There are so many videos like this of these mobs of teens just running around New York City, destroying property,

fighting with each other, just completely wild and anarchistic. And in that video that you just saw, they're dancing on a car, they're kicking a car, they're destroying a car. I feel very badly for the innocent person whose car that was. When I first saw the picture of this, I thought, how could someone find joy in creating chaos and destruction? We know chaos and destruction are things that the enemy he loves. He loves chaos. He loves confusion. He loves lawlessness. He loves anarchy. And I got a message from someone who said, you know, I used to be a liberal, and I would have loved to do something like this a few years ago. I would have found this really fun. There's part of you that just like hates the system, hates rules, hates authorities,

and hates corruption. And so you kind of justify acts like this, thinking that you're rebelling against the man in some way, but at the same time, it's just, it's also just like the power of evil. It's the power of wickedness. And I was reading Psalm 119 this morning, and as you probably know, I couldn't read you all of Psalm 119 because it would take a very long time. But if you, if you read this Psalm, which in my, in the ESV, the heading is your word is a lamp into my feet. Basically, it is just a rejoicing over God's law, a love for God's. A love for God's law, a hatred for wickedness, a hatred for lawlessness, a hatred for hypocrisy, hatred for evildoers, and a love for God's order, a love for God's ways, for his

parameters, for his regulations, for his restrictions. And I just think about, like, that is the power of the Holy Spirit. That is the power of God to change our hearts from these dead, decaying things that love anarchy and chaos and disorder and destruction. and are so selfish and so self-centered, never thinking about the needs and the well-being and the safety of other people, to then loving order, loving goodness, to loving God's law. In this world today, where we're constantly told, just to bring it full circle, that everything is about us and everything is about what we want and what feels good in the moment, God offers us something totally different. He offers us a righteousness, a goodness, a

an orderliness that can only be found in him. Psalm 119 isn't about legalism. It's not just about following rules for the sake of following rules. It's about being like Christ because we love Christ because he first loved us. It is about self-forgetfulness and self-denial and the self-empting that comes through being a disciple of Jesus and making everything about him. When we make everything about him, we don't tolerate evil and wickedness and anarchy and chaos well. So really, when I look at all of this, that's not just happening in New York City, but in other places too, I don't just think, wow, those people need police. They need parents, which is absolutely true. All of those things are grace of God. There should be discipline in the home. There should be proper biblical church

discipline. There should be disciplined by authorities. The lack of discipline. The lack of discipline. The lack of control that we see, the lack of self-control that we see. It's a product of all kinds of mess of things in our society. But I also look at them and I just see sheep without a shepherd. I just see people who have not been changed by God, people who don't love God's law, people who don't love order because they follow the father of lies who loves chaos and destruction. Doesn't have anything good for these people who are sowing the destruction either. So there is a level of compassion there that I see. And so, gosh, there's a lot of things that we can change policy-wise, but most of all, we need to

pray for the changing of hearts because this kind of Satan-wrought anarchy, it hurts people. It hurts real people and it hurts our country as a whole. All right. That's all we have time for today. There's a lot more that I could have said, but we'll try to cover it all this week before we're out for a maternity leave. Thanks so much for listening and for watching, and we will be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day.

If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers.

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