Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 854 | Another Christian Artist Deconstructs… And Goes Drag

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

Today we're talking about the former lead singer of '90s Christian band Caedmon's Call, who deconstructed and has now put out a song praising drag queens, most notably his friend “Flamy Grant.” We discuss the startling trend of Christian musicians choosing to deconstruct, usually after some acceptance or adoption of the LGBTQ lifestyle. We cover why these are linked and some other reasons that might be behind Christian artists abandoning God. Then, the Library of Congress apologized for “misgendering” an author, adding to the list of very important things governmental institutions are focusing on. We also discuss Ohio’s Issue 1 vote, which struck down a measure that would make it harder to enshrine abortion rights into Ohio law, and the troubling story coming out of Utah of a 75-year-old man who was deemed a “credible threat to the president” and killed by the FBI. Is there something even more nefarious and ideological going on behind the scenes? --- Timecodes: (00:00) Intro (04:25) Derek Webb & Flamy Grant (22:20) Why do these artists deconstruct? (33:06) LGBTQ affirming Christians (44:30) Library of Congress apologizes for using "wrong" pronouns (52:19) Ohio constitution vote / abortion (58:56) FBI kills man who is "credible threat" to Biden --- Today's Sponsors: Naturally It's Clean — visit https://naturallyitsclean.com/allie and use promo code "ALLIE" to receive 15% off your order. If you are an Amazon shopper you can visit https://amzn.to/3IyjFUJ, but the promo code discount is only valid on their direct website at www.naturallyitsclean.com/Allie. Patriot Mobile — go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 878-PATRIOT and use promo code 'ALLIE' to get free activation! Good Ranchers — get $30 OFF your box today at GoodRanchers.com – make sure to use code 'ALLIE' when you subscribe. You'll also lock in your price for two full years with a subscription to Good Ranchers! Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage — Focus on the Family's new marriage podcast is a voice you can trust. Dr. Greg and Erin Smalley host the show each episode dives into something really relevant, like communication, intimacy, money issues, or daily stress. You can find Crazy Little Thing Called Marriage on Apple, Spotify or your favorite listening source. --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 413 | The Dead End of Deconstruction | Guest: Alisa Childers https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-413-the-dead-end-of-deconstruction-guest-alisa-childers/id1359249098?i=1000519848554 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Another Christian artist has renounced his faith in the name of LGBTQ inclusion. This time, it is Derek Webb of the Christian band Cademan's Call. In his new album, he features a drag queen name. Flaming Grant. Yes, we've got a lot, a lot to say about this story. And then we'll touch on a few

other stories. What happened in Ohio this week, as well as the Library of Congress, issuing an absolutely ridiculous apology for quote-unquote misgendering. Also, before we get into the episode, just a couple of things to say about merch. Don't forget your luggage tags. If you're trying to protect your luggage from klepto weirdos in the Biden administration, we'll put that up on YouTube so you can see exactly what that looks like. No, Sam Britain, do not get our luggage. No thank you. And then also, just a note about some other merch that we have, our Related Bro friendly merch, our black and white, do the next right thing shirts, they're fully in stock. And so now you can get your shirts within five business days. Because we had to produce so many of them,

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All right, that's the only announcement that I had for you. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com code Alley. Hey, guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone has had a wonderful week so far. So this is it.

Our last episode that we are recording before my maternity leave. I am 37 weeks and some change pregnant. Very thankful for a healthy pregnancy thus far. And so sometime in the next few weeks, I will be having our third baby, which we are very, very excited about. And so we're going to take a break for a few months. However, as I've told you, but in case you missed it, we will have a new episode and never heard or seen before episode come out Monday through Thursday, just like usual, for the next few months. So don't you worry your pretty little heads about that. You got lots of new and exciting content.

This is not just like throwaway content that, oh, let's just put something together so we can make sure to get stuff out there to meet a certain quota. This is stuff that was really planned, prepared for, curated with you guys in mind, produced with you guys in mind. My executive executive producers are the related bros and related gals out there that tell me the things that you want to hear about. And so we've got lots of great conversations, controversial questions. and subjects being addressed and answered. And I'm so excited for you to hear all of that, watch all of that in the coming months. Thank you guys so much for your support and your prayers throughout this pregnancy, too, and just encouragement, as always.

That just means so much to me. So thank you, thank you, thank you. A lot of people are stunned when I tell them, yeah, we have 48 episodes, 48 plus episodes that we have been working on that are going to come out for my maternity leave. but now I've done this three times. And so we kind of have a strategy in place. We started preparing for this months ago. I don't know, maybe February or so. We started recording these episodes, February or March. And so it's been a long time coming and I hope that you guys really enjoy it. Can't wait to hear your feedback on all of that. So because this is the last episode before I'll

be able to weigh in every day on the news and things that are going on, we have a lot to talk about. And in fact, right before the camera started rolling, we were working on a story. that I just decided like 15 minutes ago that I really wanted to talk about. And that is the story of a former Christian music artist, Derek Webb, of the band Cadenman's Call, coming out with an album that celebrates being a drag queen, celebrates transgenderism. And so I want to talk about this story specifically, but I also just want to talk about this trend of deconstruction, specifically among contemporary Christian music artists of the 90s because it's really, really bizarre to me.

It's very strange, but we'll kind of analyze why I think this is going on. So first, let me tell you this story of what this is. So Derek Webb, as I said, he was a member of the group Cademan's Call. Now, do you remember Cademan's Call? I, as soon as I saw that name, I remembered, I remembered hearing about that band or hearing songs from them, but I couldn't put my finger on what song I would have known. And so one of their songs is Only Hope. Only Hope. I, you know, I really hate when I have to sing songs for you guys. This is the second day in a row that I've had to sing a song for you. Yesterday by Neo, today by

Kedman's Call. So I just have a very, like, you know, wide variety of performance. is that I put on for you guys when it comes to my singing, you can look it up on Spotify. Only Hope, not to be confused with Mandy Moore's only hope from a walk to remember. So that's one that you would probably know if you heard it. I feel like that was very popular. Still probably played on Christian Radio. And then their version of God of Wonders. God of Wonders, I believe, was actually written by Chris Tomlin, like 95% of Christian music.

but I think their version, their very like 90s camp youth group version of God of Wonders, Cademan's Call is probably one that you would recognize. Those of us who grew up in youth group, mostly early 2000s for me since I was born in 92, but definitely remember all of the 90s youth group songs. You're probably familiar with Cademan's Call, which means that you've listened to Derek Webb. You have probably, you've probably sung the lyrics that he has contributed to these songs over the years. But now he is saying that he doesn't identify as Christian. And surprise, surprise, he also identifies as progressive.

So here is a, here are a few headlines that grabbed my attention when it came to the story. Christian drag queen, Flamey Grant's number one album is back. battle cry against quote unquote terrible theology of religious bigots. This is according to entertainment weekly. Yes, it is the people who say that God made us male and female, according to Genesis 1. We are the ones with terrible theology. This drag queen says, I'm here in all of my draggy audacity to demand they reckon with reality. Really? It's us? We have to reckon with reality, you're a man wearing prosthetic breasts and dancing in front of people. It's us. We're the ones disconnected from reality. Okay. It says after her, I guess referring to this man dressing as a woman,

her Bible Belt Baby topped the Christian charts amid a feud with Sean Foyt. And then this is according to Rolling Stone. A maggot preacher condemned a drag queen. Then her album topped the Christian charts. Flamey Grants Good Day and her LP Bible Belt Baby. briefly hit number one on Apple Music after she was called out by Sean Foyt. So this is a separate story. It was his album that I guess topped the charts. But Derek Webb, his new album, called The Jesus Hypothesis, has a song that is dedicated to Flamey Grant, who came to the celebration of his album release in Nashville. And he wrote a song called Boys Will be girls featuring Flamey Grant and also showing himself in the music video getting dressed up

like a woman. So here's a short clip of that. Okay. So let me read you some of some of the lyrics behind this. It says the F word because you know you really have to show after you renounce Christianity just how edgy you are. So you have to say the F word in your deconstructive songs. So he says, because sometimes boys will be girls. You heard that part. Sometimes armor will be pearls. What you put on, oh, it shows the world how hard you're fighting. Sisters, sometimes boys will be girls.

Oh, boys will be girls. I heard Jesus loved and spent his life with those who are abandoned by proud and fearful men. So if a church won't celebrate and love you, they're believing lies that can't save you or them because you're so beautiful by any name. Okay. All right. So those are his lyrics. Now, this reminds me of the meme. It's like, I don't even know how to describe the meme. If we can find it, we'll put it up on YouTube. It's like this person who is preaching to Christians about what Jesus would really do, what the Bible really says, what Christian love really looks like. And then the person who is being talked down to says, well, are you a Christian? And then the self-righteous atheist says, no. I'm not a Christian. I don't believe anything you believe and I actually despise your beliefs, but maybe if I use your beliefs against you, you'll do what I want. Like that's what these lyrics are.

Derek Webb in 2022, he said in a tweet that he does not identify as a Christian anymore. And yet, he still refers to Jesus. He still refers to the Bible. He still refers to the church as authoritative in people's lives. And he's really just using it as a mallet to get you Christian to do what he thinks is right, even though he doesn't actually believe in Christ anymore. He might believe in the person of Jesus, as a lot of deconstructing people do. They say, oh, I'm just going to cling to the red words of Jesus. But then they're caught without really ever acknowledging it in this Lord liar lunatic conundrum that C.S. Lewis very well articulated that says, okay, well, you can't just believe

that Jesus was a good teacher because he also said that he was Lord. He also said that he was the son of God. And so he's a liar, in which case he wouldn't be a good teacher. He's a lunatic in which case he wouldn't be a good teacher. Or he is a good teacher because he's not a lunatic. He's not a liar. And therefore, the only other option that you're left with is that he was who he says he was, who he said he was, which is Lord.

And so we don't really have logically or theologically the option of Jesus, but just being a good teacher of just clinging to the red words of Jesus. The red words of Jesus says that he was the son of God. And so if he was the son of God, we have to reckon with the entire biblical canon. And so that's one mistake of many. I think that a lot of these so-called deconstructionists make. And then they turn around and they use Jesus as their kind of political tool, their ideological tool in order to get people to be more progressive. So that's what seems to be happening in this album. So that's a member of Cadenham's call. He has come out now and he's come out with this pro-drag Queen, pro-transgenderism album, this progressive album. He's actually

been, I guess, progressive for a while. I also didn't know he has, you know, some kind of friendship with Jennifer Knapp. Do you remember Jennifer Knapp? I definitely remember listening to her Christian albums in like early 2000, but I was looking on Spotify and I didn't listen. I didn't hear any songs that immediately rang any bells, but I didn't realize she came out as a woman attracted to women like several years ago and started this whole ministry to try to get Christians to deny Genesis 1, Romans 1, and the reality of Christ in the church being a bride and a bridegroom, aka accepting LGBTQ identities. And so apparently there is like a group of people that are friends that are in the somewhat

Christian music world still or were once at one point who have deconstructed from what they believe are just the antiquated backwards values of the Bible. We're going to get more into this trend, why I think it's happening. I'm going to get Breeze thoughts in just a second. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality.

We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. So like I said, this particular album is called The Jesus Hypothesis. And so his song, The Jesus Hypothesis on the album goes like this. I'll just read some of the lyrics.

Maybe the Jesus hypothesis is worth one more test to find a rhythm for all there is that beats a. in my chest. The Jesus hypothesis, like Thomas's best guess, oh, like Pascal wagering with all of the doubts in my head, you're in my head, and you just in my head because you're in my head. Maybe black sheep are not lost. Oh, they're just pioneers. It goes on and on. This is a message that we've seen a lot. This is a message from people who try to reconcile secularism, worldly values, progressivism with Christianity. And this, of course, is nothing new. In a way, the same. has been around forever. This is an attempt to try to wed the God of self with the God of Scripture. This is the kind of conundrum, or not even the conundrum, the quandary, I think that people get in when they

say, okay, is there any way that I can follow Jesus and not deny myself? Is there any way that I can still be a follower of Jesus or a follower of Christianity and still love my sin and still gratify my flesh. Is there any way that I cannot be set apart from the world and still be considered a Christian and still be considered a member of the church? Is there any way that I can just go along with the culture and I can stave off any persecution or any hardship and look exactly like everyone else, just go with the flow and still identify as a Christian? I think Jesus is very, very clear that that's just not possible, that we are all called to count the cost, that we are going to not just look different from the world, but we're actually going to be hated by the world because of the

gospel, because of Christ, because the things that we believe, not just about the gospel and the state of the human heart, the state of the soul, which is that we are dead and sin apart from Christ, which is what Ephesians 2 says. But what we believe about everything, the Bible says, what we believe about gender, what we believe about marriage, what we believe about sex, what we believe about what love really looks like, what we believe about the definition of good and evil, people are going to hate those things. They're going to gnash their teeth at those things. They have been for thousands of years they still are today. And for Christians who have convinced themselves that maybe they can be loved by the world and also love God, I think that they just

haven't read or haven't understood scripture. If you read, for example, it's James 4-4, we see that this just isn't possible, the combination of being loved by the world and truly loving God and take it up your cross and following him. It's just not a combination that works. It's like oil and water. You adulterous people, do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore, whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God, James 4.4. It shouldn't surprise us, I think, that a lot of these people who deconstruct, and there are people who deconstruct and then reconstruct. It's rare, but people who deconstruct, who say, oh, I'm going to lose the culturally inconvenient parts of Christianity. I'm going to lose the stuff

about sexuality and gender. I'm going to lose the stuff that's seen as bigoted by the world, and I'm just going to hold on to the red words of Jesus or hold on to the things that, you know, the world's deems loving and tolerant and accepting and all of that, they typically start, it seems like, with the LGBTQ issue. They typically start with that controversial piece, and then they move on to the rest of scripture. They move on to John 146, that I am the way, the truth in the life, that no one and no one can come to the father except through me, except through Christ. Because I don't think it's possible to reject the first chapter of the first book of the Bible that says that God made us male and female. He defines gender. He defines marriage

right there. He even tells us, I think, we see the implication of what he thinks about abortion, that human beings are made in God's image. Therefore, they are highly valuable. And therefore, as we read throughout scripture, but even, you know, as early as the first few chapters of the Bible, that he hates murder, that human beings are important to him, that murdering them, is wrong. And actually, as we see in Genesis 9, it demands the death penalty. But all of that, we see all of those implications. We see all those definitions in the very first chapter of the Bible. So I just don't think you can for very long deny the first chapter of the Bible without also denying the gospel. It just seems to go hand in hand. And so that seems to be what happened with Derek Webb of

Kedman's call. And it's pretty disturbing when you think about The songs that we have sang, that we've sung, that are written by these people, they seem so sincere, they seem so good. It's like, how could you be writing those songs and feeling and singing those lyrics about the wonders of God and the majesty of Jesus and the beauty of the gospel? And your heart still get so calloused and still get so hard and your mind gets so ignorant. That's pretty scary.

I was talking to Brie before this because she's only, she's a few years younger than me. So I was hoping that she knew who Kaveman's call was and some of these other Christian artists. And she didn't know. And I had to question, like, were you even a Christian in the 90s, Bree? Do you remember any of these? And I thought about it. And I wasn't actually. You weren't?

But your parents? I mean, your parents were they not. Yeah, but I think I technically became a Christian at like seven. That was already 2000. So I was not a Christian in the 90s. Already 2000. Yeah. Okay.

Did y'all listen to Christian music in the car growing up? Yeah. Yeah. My older sister I listened to like a lot of, she liked Avalon. Do you remember Avalon? Oh, yes. Testify to love. Okay.

Can you sing it? No. Oh. I loved that. And actually, this is on topic. I read recently that one of the members of Avalon, which is like a, I guess, a vocal quartet or something. what the group was, got kicked out of the van because he came out as gay.

What is the deal? Okay, so why do you think that this happens with contemporary Christian artists? It seems like a lot. Maybe it's not a lot, but it seems like pretty often over the past few years, specifically these like 90s Christian artists have come out and been like, I don't identify as Christian anymore. Like the guy from Hawk Nelson. Yeah.

He said he doesn't even know if he believes in God. Right. Hawk Nelson was, if people don't know Hawk Nelson, Hawk Nelson, is that? What did they sing? Hawk Nelson. Sadie Hawkins. No, no, no. That was relying Kaye.

Hawk Nelson, what did they, what did they sing? Sorry, I'm looking this up, guys who are listening to this. No need to apologize. Okay, that was Siri. If anyone heard that, Siri said, no need to apologize. Okay, Hawk Nelson sing drops in the ocean. He still does. Sold out.

Thank God for something. I don't know. Okay, I thought that I knew more of Hawk Nelson. I guess I didn't. But anyway, he said that he is no longer a Christian. And then Josh Harris, who is not a singer, he was, he wrote, I Kiss dating goodbye. he a couple years ago came out as, I don't know if he said that he's no longer a Christian, but that he doesn't believe the same things. And it's almost always the LGBTQ issue.

Yeah, when you said that, I was just thinking that exact thing because I used to work in ministry. And when I saw and still see people that I worked with who were full-time missionaries, as soon as I see them start to post like, happy pride or like, I'm an ally or something like that. Even if it's very like discreet at first, time after time, a couple years later, they're no longer Christians. It's like that is the gateway to this. And it's really sad. And I think also like we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, Rhett and Link, Good Mythical Morning, those guys who are huge YouTubers, they were really prominent Christians, both of them and deconstructed. and one of the reasons is because they moved to L.A. And I think the people they were surrounding themselves with were in the LGBT community. And that didn't fit into their lifestyle.

And so they changed their lifestyle. And so I just think it's a really sad kind of like gateway to, quote, deconstruction. Yeah. Okay. There was, this was who I was thinking of when you brought up earlier, the Reliant K guy, John Steingard. I was thinking of... What'd you say?

Hawk Nelson. Hawk Nelson. Yes, yes. Okay, I was thinking of this guy from Switchfoot, though, whose name is John Foreman, who I remember when he came out, I keep on saying came out, and it probably seems like I'm saying came out as LGBTQ.

That's not what I'm saying. He published, like a solo album, I think, when I was in college, that was pretty cool. But you know what I noticed? that a lot of these people who do the music that is like somewhat like is Christian but could be interpreted as secular it's like a lot of those guys that end up deconstructing but john foreman from switchfoot they had a song also speaking of Mandy Moore and Walk to Remember didn't they have a song on Walk to Remember 2? I don't think I'd even remember you don't know if I heard it um anyway

Okay, so John Foreman also a couple years ago from Switchfoot, he posted a TikTok video with a positive message. This is according to religion news toward the LGBTQ community. He said, I support your rights and freedoms. I want you to feel love and supported. Love and embrace have always been central to our story and our song. We need our differences. Okay. That's interesting.

and then someone, I guess, an LGBTQ TikToker said, I'm interpreting what she said as being affirming. If I am incorrect in that, then I really hope that you would clarify because I think for many queer people of faith, the bait and switch of hearing such encouraging words like yours, and then finding out that that means something else can be heartbreaking, but I don't think that's you.

So I don't know. I mean, I guess you could interpret his, I guess you could interpret his comments as just saying, like, yeah, I believe that you should have legal rights and not fully supporting, but it doesn't really sound like that. It kind of sounds like affirmation. And so this does seem to be common. And I guess it's not that surprising the whole LGBTQ thing because they are artists. One, artists are they do things like this. They're just more, I don't know. Artists are pretty wacky. Yeah. They're more liberal. But also.

So they're in, they're still like in that world of being in L.A. or being in Nashville. And these are kind of more progressive places. A lot of the people in the music industry, whether it's Christian music industry or not, do identify as LGBTQ. Even Lauren Daigle a few years ago when she was asked on a radio show, you know, do you believe that being gay is a sin? She wouldn't say it. She was like, I just don't know. There's a lot of people I love that are gay. And I think that even though that might have sounded to a lot of people like just a ditsy response, I think that that is probably the thing is that I love a lot of people who are gay. And therefore, I don't want to offend them. Yeah. And she's another one that writes those Jesus is My Boyfriend Songs where you don't know if it's about God or your boyfriend. Or your boyfriend. What is it?

But it's very talented, very talented and a capable person. Yes. But it's true. And that's the same with like in Hollywood with Christian production companies. Usually most of the people running those aren't Christians to begin with. They're making that content to make money from a Christian audience. So while some of these artists might be professing Christians, the people actually producing the songs often aren't. So they're still surrounded by the same people. And I think that that that does get to people. It's a tough environment to be in. So. And I do think that it can inhibit some of your reach and your success, your ability to work within these industries if you are openly oppositional to those things. Because even a lot of Christian artists who are not openly affirming or they're not openly progressive, they still don't, they're not exactly clear. Like you're not seeing a whole lot of songs like glorifying and honoring the beauty of biblical marriage between men or. woman. I'm not saying that there should be. And I'm not saying that every Christian artist also

has to be a commentator and also always has to give the most controversial opinion that they have. But you really see them kind of quiet on a lot of these issues. And I'm sure it's because of what you said. A lot of the people in producing and in production are progressive. And so they don't want to hurt those relationships. I doubt that Lauren Daigle would have been able to go on Alan DeGeneres' this show. Yeah. If she had been, if she had answered that question honestly and said, you know what? I'm going to hang my hat on God's word. This is what God's word says. This is what he says is holy and good. And that's enough for me. That's all she had to say. That's all anyone has to say, by the way. And yeah, and then I think it's easy. It's easy to justify not just for Christian

artists, but for anyone to say, well, if I stay away from saying those really controversial things that I can reach more people. And once I reach them, then behind the scenes, I can tell them my controversial opinions about, you know, sex and marriage. I think there are a lot of pastors that do that. Yeah. I think, you know, that's kind of even the Joel Osteen strategy, but also like the celebrity pastor strategy of like, let's just make people feel really good for a period of time.

And then when it comes down to it, we'll talk about sin and holiness and repentance and right and wrong and things like that. Yeah. And I don't know if that's what leads to destruction. Destruction, deconstruction. Just a little slip there. Same thing, I guess. But it certainly seems to contribute to it.

That repentance and holiness and all of this stuff isn't taught very prevalently within the church. And so, yeah, you just have a lot of people misunderstanding it and missing it. And that's a shame. Yeah. It's a shame trying to reach the largest amount of people, no matter the cost, is going to cost something. Yeah. I know. And that's the opposite of Jesus' message. Like, he, he's, I mean, he makes, he makes it really difficult. He says, you're probably going to lose your life. You're going to,

you could lose your livelihood. This is going to be really difficult. And so he doesn't just say, follow me. He says, count the cost before you follow me. You're going to have to take up your cross, you're going to have to carry your own method of crucifixion on your back if you want to be a follower of me. Are you ready for that? If not, then I don't want you to follow me. So it's, it's just strange how these same people who say, well, I'm just going to hang with Jesus. I'm going to hang with Jesus. Well, obviously not. And, you know, one thing to keep in mind for these artists is that we've kind of proven that there is a market for people who speak truth about these issues. Maybe it's not as big as the traditional, you know, mainstream market. But, you know, like Jason Aldeen,

is that his name? Yeah. Yeah, like things like that. It's like there's a market. People are going to buy, if it's good music, people are going to buy your music if you stand up for what is right and good and true. And I wish more people kind of counted on that. Yeah. But I don't think that there's a very large market for like progressive Christian songs. Right. Like a Christian song also. celebrating like drag queens yeah there's definitely a demographic of people who will listen to that there's a network of churches that will sing that but there is but it's it's few and far between i would say not that i think that they should just put on an album or put out an album that they don't believe in just to sell albums but yeah i don't think that this is like the beginning of a

movement i just think that it's people going along to get along, going along with the world because it's the most popular thing. And this is my response that I gave to, and you guys have heard me say this a lot, but in response to this Nate Worthington person who I guess was a counselor, this is his bio. He has a few thousand followers, I think. And this tweet went kind of viral, which is why I responded to it. A future counselor, current deconstructor, former pastor, always coffee, never nationalism. Okay, so random. Always coffee, but never nationalism. That's what I think in the morning when I drink my coffee. Sometimes traveling, most times running. And then if you didn't know, he slash him,

which I really appreciate because I had no idea with a name like Nate and a beard that he would be a man. So I appreciate that clarification. So he tweeted this. And this just typify so much of what we're talking about. I must make a confession today. I am now a full. open and affirming Christian, to my LGBTQIA brothers and sisters to quote Derek Webb, I was wrong. I'm sorry and I love you. So quoting the guy, I didn't even actually realize when I pulled this tweet that he was quoting the guy that we were talking about.

Derek what? This came in's call guy. I was wrong. I'm sorry. And I love you. And here's what I said. I don't think I could say anything contemporaneously. that would be better than what I've already written. So I'll just read it. I said,

culture has changed, your feelings have changed, your friends have changed, but the word of God has it. Marriage between a man and a woman is and always will be. One, rooted in creation. We read that in Genesis 127. Two, reiterated throughout scripture. For example, Exodus 2012, you shall honor your father and mother, repeated by Jesus himself, Matthew 19, 4 through 5. He's answering a question about divorce from the Pharisees who are trying to trap him. And he says, have you not read? He goes all the way back to the creation account that he made them male and female. It is representative of Christ in the church, which is Ephesians 531 through 32.

And it is therefore reflective of the gospel, Christ and the church. So rooted in creation, reiterated throughout scripture, repeated by Jesus representative of Christ in the church. and therefore reflective of the gospel, which we see reflected in Christ and the church as the bridegroom and the bride. So there is gospel, spiritual, profound, eternal significance to the definition of gender and marriage. It's not just one of those things where we can pick apart some verses and say, oh, those were probably culturally relevant then, or maybe the original Greek in Hebrew doesn't quite mean exactly what we think. Maybe it has something to do with consent. It's like, I mean, talk about using modern progressive lenses to try to read in to scripture.

It's not just one of those things because it's not just Leviticus. It's not just Romans 1. It's not just 1st Corinthians 6. It is also the fact that marriage between a man and a woman is the only sexual relationship that is positively affirmed and called Holy and the Bible. Every other kind of relationship is seen as sinful. Every other relationship is a sin, not just against God, but against yourself. So it's not just about a few verses here and there,

which if it were, that would be okay too. Jesus is God and therefore he also created the male and female. Everything that God's word says throughout the Old and New Testament, Jesus also says. But it's not just about those verses. It's also about what is positively affirmed. From the first chapter of the Bible, Genesis 1 to the last chapter of the Bible, Revelation 22. The Bible starts with a marriage between man and woman. The Bible ends with a marriage between the bride and the bride.

bridegroom. These are not gender neutral relationships. These are not arbitrary. It's not like God just said, oh, yeah, male and female, that sounds good. No, God is purposeful. He's providential. The arc of redemption that we've seen from creation into eternity, the role of male and female, both physically as we see in the beginning, but also spiritually, that has, extreme significance in the biblical narrative and in the eternal plan of redemption, which God has graciously put forward. So that is why when people say, ah, I think I'm a Christian, but I affirm the LGBTQ stuff. Maybe a man can become a woman and vice versa. Maybe love really is just love rather than looking at, say, 1st Corinthians 13 or 1st John 4, 8 to see what love is. Maybe love is just

love. Maybe it's just this circular thing. Maybe it's just what people feel. That's why when people affirm that, they end up denying the gospel. Because you're not just denying one or two verses, as if that was okay. I'm not saying that it is. You're denying something very fundamental, very central to Christianity. It's not one of those things like, oh, we disagree on eschatology. We disagree on predestination. These are big issues, but they're not necessarily. salvation issues if we disagree on them. When it comes to sexuality and gender and the definition of marriage, when you mess with that, you are messing with, again, something extremely foundational, extremely fundamental. And that's why when you take that piece away, the edifice starts to crumble.

Your faith starts to crumble. So Derek Webb of Cadman's call, this seems to be another example of that. There was that Hillsong guy, Marty Samston, who also did the same thing. And gosh, it just seems to be the same story over and over again. This is just a reminder to you because I know that this can cause sometimes when you look up to a pastor, you look up to an author, you look up to an artist, like it can cause a crisis of faith for people who have been followers of them, a really big fan of them when you think about someone like Carl Lentz, who we talked about a couple weeks ago, I don't know if he calls himself a deconstructor, although he does dawn progressive values, but he ended up being not who he said that he was. You know, he was having an affair

and all of that, that can cause a crisis of faith for the people that trusted that. Like, maybe you heard one of these people share the gospel and you became a Christian, and then you can start to question, is my faith real? Let me remind you that no pastor and no artist and no author, no influencer, no podcaster is the author of your faith. Jesus is the author and perfector of your faith, and he will never fail you. He will never disappoint you. He will never go back on his word. He will never leave you or forsake you. He will never deceive you. He will never pretend to be something that he's not. He will never put on a show. He is who he says he is. He is the great I am. And he will never, ever let you down or turn his back on you. He is the one who authored your faith. So all of these people that we follow, who know, who knows. God may have used in good, in edifying, and glorifying ways at some point, despite their sin

and rebellion. These are not the people that we cling to. These are not the people that we ultimately follow. We follow Christ. And we can learn from people who are emulating Christ in their words and actions. I think that's good. But hold everyone very loosely. Take every person that you've placed on a pedestal off their pedestal. and keep Christ the only one there, the only one that is uplifted, the only one that is on the throne, because I promise you, he is trustworthy and his gospel is sure. The culture will change, people will deconstruct, pastors will disappoint you, leaders will fail you, friends will reject you, or maybe reject the faith that you thought that you shared with them. But the Word of

God does not change. Remember, Jesus Christ, Hebrews 138 is the same yesterday, today, and forever. How comforting is that? How comforting is that? And we should pray for these people's repentance. Pray for their courage. Pray for their boldness. Pray that God would work on their hearts.

Unfortunately, I think a difficult part of this is that a lot of people who are raised in the faith or who were in the church for a long time, when they start to deconstruct, they think that they are, that they've asked all the questions, that they know everything about Christianity. And so they think that there's nothing that you could ask them or nothing that you could tell them that would change their mind because they've heard it all. But typically, like the questions that they ask, like, why does a good God let bad things happen? Like, why is being gay a sin? I'm like, oh, wow, no one's ever asked those questions before. There's also just, there's just like a lot of pride, it seems like, from these people.

They think that they're asking questions that apologists and theologians and other Christians haven't been asking for thousands of years and answering very wisely and biblically for thousands of years. I guarantee you the Word of God has answers to the questions that you're looking for. Okay, I just wanted to talk about this story that I think is kind of ridiculous. It is totally ridiculous. I can't believe that we are here. But as we have just analyzed, there's a loss of sanity and a loss of understanding. and wisdom in our culture, and it has even infected the Library of Congress, which comes as no surprise to me. There is no institution anymore that is sacred. A Library of Congress apologizes for

using wrong pronouns. So the Library of Congress recently publicly apologized to author Casey McQuiston for using incorrect pronouns when they were advertising her book signing, her book signing event at the library. So the original tweet event listing with quote unquote incorrect. pronouns was deleted, but they referred to her to Casey McQuiston. And we'll put up a picture of this person. Yep, there you go. As she, they had the audacity to look at someone who clearly looks like a woman and call her she. And so Casey McQuistam, I guess she was upset about this. And they had to issue a correction. She wrote the New York Times bestseller, red, white, and royal blue in 2019, which is a love story between America's first.

son and the British Prince of Wales. The book has turned into an Amazon Prime original movie that releases on August 11th. And so she was doing this, I guess, reading at the Library of Congress. And so the Library of Congress then apologized for calling this woman who is clearly a woman, she. And they said, we deeply apologize to Casey McQuiston for using incorrect pronouns for them. There we go. Them. In our last post, Casey will be signing books after the conversation about red, white, and royal blue at the library on Tuesday evening. Okay. So I guess in the past couple of years, she has decided that she is multiple people like Legion, the demon-possessed person among pigs at the cemetery in scripture. So she goes by they, them, and the Library of Congress

failed to acknowledge that, but a little bit more about this, about this author. This is from Time Magazine. Red, White, and Blue was her debut novel that was a surprising success. She said, I always felt that if the book could find its people, other depressed queer millennials, it could do well, but I've been blown away. I personally, I can't say that I have read the book myself. Now, what's interesting is that in this Time Magazine article, Casey is referred to as She-Hurt. So this was 2021. So in the past, let's see, month 2021, so May 2021, so a little over two years ago, she was going by She-Hurt. And yet the Library of Congress had the audacity not to follow her personal identification story so quickly moment by moment that they failed.

to refer to the singular person with plural pronouns. Now, how could they be so selfish? How could they be so ignorant and so narcissistic that they were not following the ongoing and always developing story of her transition from she, her, to they, them? According to Time Magazine's feature, McQuistin's formative years

were shaped by attending a conservative evangelical Christian school from kindergarten to 12th grade. Hey, me too. We went different directions, though. Went different directions. See, this is another example of, I guess, deconstruction. Anybody who's been through queer religious trauma has ways of coping with that in adulthood. Her second novel, One Last Stop, included an all-queer cast.

It was important to her not just to have one queer person represented, as was the case on many popular sitcoms. The book is set in the deep south at a conservative religious high school, much like her own upbringing. She says, I have no interest in fame or notoriety. I just want to write my gay little books and show people a good time. As long as I'm doing that, I'm happy. Okay. Okay. So Casey goes by they then, the library of Congress, they have learned their lesson and they had to publicly apologize for calling an individual woman she instead of they. Honestly, just this is just, again, the gospel of the God of self. It is so perpetually narcissistic and demanding of other people's words and acquiescence,

even at the expense of logic and grammar. Library of Congress, however, they have been progressive for some time that shouldn't surprise us. In the least, they've gone full steam ahead on things like DEI, in February of 2021, a new PCC advisory committee on diversity, equity, and inclusion was formed to revisit unresolved outcomes from the original group, I guess, that was championing DEI to address the extensive feedback it received from a survey that they put out. And one thing that they decided to do, do not record the research description and access gender element and personal name authority records.

Essentially don't record gender when library cataloging about people. people, avoid outing, misgendering, or deadnaming the person, or recording details about a person's gender transition, respect requests from the person to remove or update information pertaining to the person's gender or name changes. And so we don't live in reality. Even the library of Congress, who is supposed to be, I don't know, about learning and about some form of truth and knowledge and wisdom, you would hope. They have also abandoned in reality as most institutions, as most institutions have. And also, you'll remember, Lizzo, Lizzo played a flute in front of the Library of Congress. Wasn't it like Thomas Jeffert,

James Madison's flute? It was James Madison's flute. She, she played the flute. We haven't talked about Lizzo and her whole thing yet. I will be talking about it with the Babylon B's Kyle Mann in a few weeks. That'll come out in a few weeks. But yeah, she, You got the play in front of the Library of Congress. And Library of Congress, let's see, is that it? Yeah, they've just had a few woke moments over the year. So not entirely surprised. Not entirely surprised by something like that.

We've lost the plot, people. We've lost the plot. Okay, let's talk about this Ohio vote. And I'm sorry that I didn't get to this earlier. I wish I had. I know I had a lot of people from Ohio asking me, can you talk about this? It's always so hard to talk about all the things we want to talk about. Even today, we're not going to be.

to get to all the stories that we had planned to talk about. Usually one story just ends up kind of dominating the episode and then stories get pushed to the side. But this is very important, so I at least want to mention it. So this is summarized from various outlets, The Hill, AP News, New York Times. On Tuesday, Ohio voters rejected a ballot measure known as issue one that would have raised the threshold for changing the state's constitution from a simple majority to a 60 percent super majority. This is significant to the abortion debate. Okay, so this is probably why you're hearing about this as a conservative or pro-lifer because Ohioans will vote in November on a proposal to amend the Constitution to guarantee abortion rights. The Ohio right to make reproductive decisions, including abortion initiative, is already on the November 7th ballot.

Now this measure only needs a simple majority to pass. So this would become a quote-unquote constitutional right in Ohio. the ability to murder your child. Issue one was rejected by a 57% to a 43% vote. Supporters of issue 1 said the higher bar would protect the state's foundational document from outside interest groups. So it's not just about abortion. Like I think the threshold should be raised period, but it's particularly important when it comes to what's on the ballot this November in regards to protecting unborn life.

According to the Associated Press, voters cast nearly 700,000 early in-person and mail ballots ahead of Tuesday's final day of voting more than double the number of advanced votes in a typical primary election. I'm sorry, that just sounds sketchy to me. Now, I'm not saying that they're not all real votes because I don't know that. I'm just saying I do think interest groups play a role in this. I think the massive abortion lobby plays a role in this. campaign finance status shows that one person, one vote, the measures opposition campaign. So the more progressive side of this, they're the ones that don't want to raise the threshold for a constitutional change. Raise nearly 85% of its $14.8 million in contributions from outside of Ohio.

Protect our Constitution. The committee in support of issue one also received contributions from outside of Ohio. billionaire Illinois business owner Richard Elaine contributed 4 million of the committee's nearly 4.9 million, but they obviously, they didn't get a whole lot. They didn't get nearly as much money as the progressive side did. And so that's where we are. I mean, the abortion lobby, these progressive groups, they're huge. And they have a lot of money.

And like, you'll remember, remember Beto O'Rourke and Ted Cruz, like how much outside support he got Stacey Abrams and Georgia. Like you've got all of Hollywood and all of these industries flooding these states sometimes trying to support these campaigns. It's not always effective. However, it seems like the same thing happened in Kentucky not too long ago when it came to their abortion measure, maybe Michigan 2. It's not always effective because obviously better work lost and so did Stacey Abrams. Although I guess that's debated. She might still be the rightful governor of Georgia.

We don't know. But a lot of these come from the outside groups and a lot of outside money that for some reason just cannot stand conservative states being conservative and can't stand protecting unborn life. Of course, President Biden felt the need to weigh in on this. And he's super excited that it'll be as easy as possible for women to abort their children, the ardently Catholic president that we have. He said today, Ohio voters rejected an effort by Republican lawmakers and special interests to change the state's constitutional amendment process. This measure was a blatant. attempt to weaken voters' voices. Doubt. And further erode the freedom of women to make their own health care decisions. Ohioan spoke loud and clear. And tonight, democracy won. And again, I think you have to ask yourself, whenever you hear progressive say the word

democracy, you have to say, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by democracy? Like, what does democracy mean in this sentence? Democracy typically just means them getting what they want. Fascism means them not getting what they want. want. So what you can do, Ohio, is make sure that you vote in November. And I know it might seem hopeless at this point, but that's what you got to do. That's all you can do. You can educate your friends, make sure that they go out and vote. I think the majority in Ohio is in the pro-life

camp. I do think that probably statistically, most people are leaning to the right on this issue and they don't want to make abortion so accessible and a guaranteed right in the state of Ohio. But there's a lot of people who just won't vote because it's not a presidential election year. So you've got to raise a respectful ruckus. You got to get the moms in your neighborhood, the moms at your kids' school. You got to get your friends who are just so apathetic. That's the thing. Most people don't care.

I was just talking to someone about this yesterday. Most people don't care about things. They don't care. If they don't see how it directly affects their life or their kids' lives, they just don't care. especially on the right. I would say that's not even as true on the left. They can get very insinced about things. But on the right, it's like, well, look, I'm just busy working. I'm just busy with my family and busy with my kids and busy at church, which are all great things, by the way. But other things matter too. Bigger things matter too. Just because you don't see how something

directly affects you today doesn't mean that A, it won't affect you at some point or your kids one day. And B, it doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about it. It affects other people. What do we always say? politics matter because policy matters because people matter. And if we're Christians, we should know better than anyone, that people matter and why they matter. Those little lives matter. Those lives in the womb matter. And so get out and vote in Ohio, in November. Okay. Let's see. Okay, I just want to say this last thing. I've got to talk about this, Brea, and you can tell me what you think about this. And that's the FBI think. Okay, we were going to talk about the Massachusetts couple getting denied for adoption because they're Christians. Someone else has to talk about that.

Maybe I'll talk about that on social media. But I got to talk about this FBI story because this is really freaky. Okay. And I just want to be able to say that we talked about this. So this is according to the Blaze and CNN, FBI kills a man who was a credible threat to Biden. Was he a credible threat? He's 75-year-old man. He lives in Provo, Utah.

and at 6.15 a.m. on Wednesday morning, yesterday morning, FBI agent arrived at his house and shot and killed him. And this is allegedly because of things he posted on social media that were critical of Joe Biden. What do you think of this? Do you think that this was a necessary kill? The thing is we don't have body cam footage. So I don't know. For all we know, he could have pointed a gun at an FBI guy, you know? Yeah. But knowing what we know, I'm skeptical because it seems like what he was doing.

If you read some of his tweets, like, they are, they're very blatantly like, oh, you know, I'm going to go, like, assassinate the president. Like, he says stuff on social media. That is, like, I guess, threatening. But he's also, like, people did that with Trump all the time. Yeah. No one knocked their door down and killed them, you know, for that. So I'm just skeptical.

how they were already tracking him. They already had issues with him. I don't know. I guess we'll see. Yeah. I mean, obviously the things that he was saying are not good.

He said the time is right for a presidential assassination or two. That's a horrible thing to say. First Joe, then Kamala. He also apparently said, I'll be waiting in the courthouse parking garage

with my suppressed Smith and West and M&P 9mm to smoke a radical fool prosecutor that should never have been elected. I mean, these are horrible things to say. And I'm not saying that these threats shouldn't be taken seriously. I absolutely think they should. But I see a ton of this stuff from progressives. Yeah.

A ton of this stuff against Kavanaugh and other conservative justices when Roe v. Wade was overturned. And at that time, these tweets weren't even getting taken down by Twitter. Right. And as far as I know, these people weren't investigated by the FBI. some of them that I know tweeted terrible things wishing violence and harm and destruction on these people on President Trump, I know they haven't been in, at least they haven't gotten in trouble by law enforcement because they're still out there tweeting.

Yeah. Living their lives. And so I'm not saying that this person shouldn't have been investigated. I do think you have to investigate things like this. But is it even or is it just because it is a conservative person? that's what we don't know. Now, I still, even that, we don't know, as you said, if the, he, like, if the killing was justified. Just like we don't know in any law enforcement citizen situation if the killing was justified until we know for sure what was happening.

Right. So, yeah. I mean, it's really, I mean, it's just such an unfortunate situation. And he has so many tweets saying, FBI, I know you're reading this. Make sure you tell me when you're coming by so basically I can kill you. So they had a reason to think that he could have been dangerous. But it certainly doesn't look good when they're seeing. It never will look good when law enforcement seems to use deadly force with partiality.

And that's something that the left understands when it comes to race and when they claim, I think falsely, that there is like a partial thing going on when it comes to killing people according to the color of their skin. But when it comes to political partiality in favor of progressives over conservatives and the use of fatal force by law enforcement, but it doesn't seem like progressive seemed to be that worried about this story. They don't seem to be worried about police brutality here.

It's just like, oh, well, he did tweet those things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which was the first response was a lot of articles about this guy. Look what he posted. Look at pictures of him with guns. you know, things like that

rather than should the FBI have been doing this? What happened with the FBI? Yeah. This interaction was. Wow. Love to see the left back the blue. Yeah. All of a sudden you're going to see

their little blue stripe bumper stickers on love the feds. Probably going to be their new motto. So we'll see more about this. I think it's just like such a sad situation overall. Man, oh man.

So anyway, that's all we have. That's just, that's developing. This is a very like old person too. And so there's just, there's a lot of strangeness to it. A lot of chaos in the world, guys. But just remember, God is on his throne. Even in the craziness of the feds, the craziness of the culture, craziness of people who profess themselves to be Christians, the chaos and the confusing.

of the world will not win. God will claim victory and enact perfect justice and perfect peace forevermore. And that is the hope that we cling to in all things. And remember, it is always enough to do the next right thing in excellence, in faith with excellence, and for the glory of God. All right. It's all we've got time for today, guys. We will see you back here on Monday. Hey, this is Steve Deist. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase

narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.