Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 861 | Did Dinosaurs Exist? | Guest: Ken Ham (Part One)

Episode Date: August 23, 2023

Today we’re joined by Ken Ham, founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis, to discuss creation, evolution, and dinosaurs. We start off with an explanation of why Genesis 1-11 matters so much both in the biblical narrative and in our lives. Why is it so easy for people to dismiss Genesis 1-11 and not other parts of the Bible? Then we take a look at operational science vs. historical science when it comes to the dating of the Earth. How old really is the Earth, and how would we know scientifically? We dive into Darwinism and his dangerous belief system and then ask the question we know you’ve been waiting for: did dinosaurs really exist? --- Timecodes: (01:04) Creation accounts & literalism of the Bible (07:53) Why do people disregard Genesis 1-11 and not other parts of the bible? (12:06) Is the Earth millions of years old? (23:50) Evolution & origins of Darwinian beliefs (35:13) Were dinosaurs real? --- Today's Sponsors: A'Del — go to adelnaturalcosmetics.com and enter promo code "ALLIE" for 25% off your first order! EdenPURE — when you buy one Thunderstorm you get one FREE, this week only! Go to EdenPureDeals.com, use promo code 'ALLIE'! Jase Medical — get up to a year’s worth of many of your prescription medications delivered in advance. Go to JaseMedical.com today and use promo code “ALLIE”. Constitution Wealth — align your values with your investments through your financial management. Go to ConstitutionWealth.com/ALLIE and schedule a FREE consultation! --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 670 | The Dinosaur Myth, Airport Rules, & Mom Moments https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-670-the-dinosaur-conspiracy-airport-rules-mom-moments/id1359249098?i=1000577955241 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Are dinosaurs real? Is this little rendering of the triceratops, an accurate rendering of what dinosaurs were really like? How old is the earth actually? And how do we know?

Guys, this is a much-awaited conversation with none other than kin. Ham. He is the founder and CEO of Answers in Genesis. And he has the answers for us today, looking at scripture and coming from the authority of the Bible. We answer these very difficult questions about evolution and creation, the age of the earth, dinosaurs, extinct creatures, all of these things, a fascinating two-part conversation. This is part one. Part two will be out tomorrow. So make sure you stay tuned for that. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. go to Go to Goodyrachers.com. Use code Alley at check out Goodrangers.com. Code Alley. Well, Ken, thanks so much for joining us. It's great to see you again.

I saw you at the Arc Encounter not too long ago, the Women's Conference for Answers and Genesis. Well, it's great to be with you, Ellie. Yes, yes. Okay, there's a lot. Gosh, there's so much. There's so much that I want to cover with you. First, I want to satiate people's curiosity. So many people over the years have said, you have to get Ken Ham on. You have to get Ken Ham on. talk about dinosaurs, talk about creation. And then we'll zoom out and we'll talk about why all our moral issues and all our problems today really go back to Genesis. But let's first talk about these things that you've been discussing and debating for decades now.

Millions years. Millions years. Oh, actually, I don't believe in millions of years. At most 6,000. So, yeah, let's talk about that. Okay, the creation account, the thing that I hear is that a lot is that it doesn't really matter, whether you see it as an allegory, whether you see it as a metaphor, whether it's some kind of hyperbole. What should Christians believe about the literalism of the Genesis account and why does it matter?

Well, first of all, if we go and jump to the New Testament, Jesus, as the son of God, as the God man, when asked about marriage, immediately refers back to Genesis. He says, haven't you read, he made the beginning, made them male and female test to two genders, and said, for this call, shall I man, live his father? mother and cleveland his wife, and there'll be one flesh, attesting to the truth of Genesis 224, after God made man from dust, woman, from his side, we read that passage. It's the creation of marriage, actually. In other words, God created marriage,

you know, not the President of the United States or the Supreme Court justices. God created marriage. So the point is the doctrine of marriage is founded in Genesis, but not just the doctrine of marriage. Every single biblical doctrine of theology, directly or indirectly, is founded in the first election.

chapters of the Bible. In fact, the first 11 chapters are the foundation for the rest of the Bible, for all of our doctrine, for our Christian worldview, and in fact, for everything. There's nothing that ultimately is not founded in those first 11 chapters. It's a history in geology and biology and astronomy and anthropology and so on. That's the foundation for everything. So if you think about the origin of all the basic entities of life in the universe are right there in Genesis 1 to 11. You start listing them off. It covers a foundation. everything. And so if you want to deal with any issue, it doesn't matter what the issue is. You want to deal with dinosaurs or fossils or the age of the earth or marriage or gender or abortion,

whatever you want to deal with, that's where you start, Genesis 1 to 11. So when Christians say Genesis 1 to 11 doesn't matter, it's just allegory or it's just myth, then they have no foundation for any doctrine, no foundation for their worldview, no foundation for the rest of the Bible. Even the Christian gospel, the message of Jesus dying, on across, raised from the dead, paying the penalty for our sin. Where's the origin of sin? Genesis 1 to 11. The origin of death, Genesis 1 to 11. Actually, the promise of the Savior, Genesis 1 to 11. It's in Genesis 315. And so it goes on. So Genesis 1 to 11 is the foundation for everything. And so if you want to deal with any of the moral issues of the day, what's happening

in our culture, you know, what many people don't realize is our thinking just doesn't come from out of the We don't just grab our thinking from out of the air. We have a way of thinking. Everyone has a worldview, and your worldview depends on presuppositions that you have. And in an ultimate sense, there's only two foundations. You start with man's word, man, independent, autonomous man, who therefore decides what's right and what's wrong. Or you start from God's word. And God's word begins with the first 11 chapters that gives you that foundational information

to build the right way of thinking about everything. Is it possible to accept everything that you said and still believe that just the creation account is not literal, that it's just how people wrote back then, that it's not really literally seven days or literally a six-day creation, that it is just a metaphor, but still say, but I still believe that God is in charge of it all, and I still believe basically the tenets of Genesis 1 through 11. Well, you know, people can believe inconsistently all sorts of things. For instance, you know, the Bible says, if you confess with your mouth, the Lord Jesus,

believe in your heart God is raised him from the dead, you'll be saved. It doesn't say if you confess you from out the Lord Jesus, believe in your heart, God is raising him from the dead, and believe in six literal days and believe in a young earth, you'll be saved. In other words, the message of salvation is conditioned upon faith in Christ, not what you believe about the age of the earth or the days of creation. So in that sense, yeah, someone could say they're a Christian and believe Christian doctrine and so on and not believe Genesis 1 to 11. But then I would challenge them that they have a problem.

So why do you believe what you do? I mean, you believe if you believe the gospel. Well, how do you explain it? Who is Jesus? What is sin? Where did it come from? You believe in marriage. Okay, why?

Marriage, what? One man for one woman? Where did you get that from? Because if it's just a metaphor, then it can mean anything you want to make it to mean. And that's not how the New Testament writers treat Genesis 1 to 11. Jesus references it as real history. The Apostle Paul, for instance, in Romans 5,

by one man sin in the world, death by sin, and so death came upon all men. Or 1 Corinthians 1545. Paul says, Jesus, sorry, the first man, his name was Adam. The first man was Adam, and I was referencing a real Adam. Paul references the literal first atom and the name of the last item, the Lord Jesus, and puts those two together. If the first one's a metaphor, then is the last one a metaphor too, or is it literal?

So you see, Genesis 1 to 11, really to be consistent as a Christian and to have a foundation for your doctrine and a foundation for anything, you've got to take it as literal history. Yeah. Oh, that's a really good point that I hadn't thought about before, that if you start to say that, okay, it's not a literal six days. This actually means something else. Then, okay, Genesis 127 might mean something differently that God made a male and female. But you're saying that Jesus didn't see it as metaphorical in Matthew 19, 4 through 5, he says, have you not read that God made the male and female and brought them together? And you referenced the other New Testament

writers, they didn't see it as a metaphor. So if you take one part of the creation account as an allegory or hyperbole, then why isn't the rest of it up for debate? too. And you know, there's a big question here, Ellie, and that is, why do people particularly take Genesis 1 to 11 that way? I mean, why not other parts of scripture? I mean, if you said to somebody who was a Christian, for instance, and you said, do you believe that Jesus rose from the dead? Yeah. Well, how do you know? Well, because the Bible says, right? But wait a minute, you weren't there. You didn't see it happen. Yeah, but this is God's word. Okay. Do you believe Jesus fed 5,000 as a miracle? Yeah, well, how do you know that?

Because you weren't there? Yeah, but the Bible says that here. Do you believe the Israelites crossed the Red Sea as a miracle? Well, yeah, you weren't there to see it? No, how do you know? Well, the Bible says that. But as soon as you go to Genesis 1 to 11, you say, it says here, God created it in six days and there was a global flood.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, but we don't believe that's spiritual history. But why not? And it's not because of what the Bible says. They will always appeal to because of evolution, because of millions a year, years because of, you know, what man is saying out there. In other words, they're taking ideas from outside of scripture to scripture and reinterpreting scripture. You know, if you think about it, you know, within Christendom, there can be a lot of different positions theologically in regard to baptism, eschatology, speaking in tongues, Sabbath Day. And we understand

that. And people say, well, that's why you can have lots of different positions in general. But it's not the same thing. The reason we have these different positions of baptism and so on, when you're talking to people, I say, well, because over here, scripture says this, yeah, but here it says this, yeah, but in context it says this here. You're arguing primarily from scripture. And obviously somebody's wrong, right? But nonetheless, they can be different positions because people are arguing from scripture.

But as soon as it comes to Genesis, they're always saying, yeah, but because of what the scientists are saying, because of millions of years, because of everything. they're starting outside of scripture with man's ideas and then bringing in that to scripture. That unlocks a door. And the door that unlocks is you don't have to take scripture as written. You can take man's ideas of millions of years evolution and reinterpret this. So why shouldn't you do the same with marriage? Let's take man's ideas about marriage, man's ideas about gender. Because if you're going to tell generations you can start outside of scripture to reinterpret scripture, then it's not the absolute authority, then man becomes the authority.

And I believe that is largely why we've seen such a generational loss from the church, which we have, incredible catastrophic generational loss from the church, because I don't believe they've been taught to stand on God's word from the beginning. They don't have the right foundation. They've been impacted by the world, and they walk away from the church. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues face our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true

about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch. watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. I think some would say, well, this is just our attempt at reconciling what we know from

science with the Bible, trying to help people retain their faith in the gospel while still somehow like fitting the Bible into science or fitting science into the Bible. And that's why they would say, well, it's a metaphor. Really, the world has been around for millions of years, but that's fine. We can believe everything else in Scripture. Can you talk a little bit of bit about the science because there are people I've seen a lot of debates and you've been in these debates. People who say, we have fossils that date back millions and millions of years. There's some Christians who would say that. I mean, how do you respond? I feel like I don't know enough about science to refute that. You know, in 2014 at the Creation Museum, you know, we have two

attractions, the Creation Museum, the Arkankana. At the Creation Museum, in 2014, I debated Bill Nye, the science guy. Well, I'd call him Bill Nye the humanist guy or atheist guy. But the topic was basically to deal with science and the Bible. And one of the things he said was that, you know, this is science versus the Bible. So the first thing I did in the debate was I said, you know, before we can even talk, we have to define our terms. So if you're going to use the word science, what does the word science mean? Well, the word science comes from a Latin sientia, which means to know, knowledge, state of knowing. And the conscience that is, like, that CNA is in that word too.

And understanding, yes, understanding knowledge and how to get knowledge. And one of the things I did was I said, look, there's two types of knowledge. You can gain knowledge using your five senses in the present by direct observation and using your five senses, taste, smile, sight, here in touch. And you obtain knowledge, you attain information, that builds our technology. And we all agree on that science. That's called observational science, or you could call it operational science. But when it comes to talking about the past, that's a different sort of knowledge, because you weren't there.

And that's historical science. And I gave you the example. I said, Bill and I, we can go out to the Grand Canyon. And we can all agree the canyon in this place is a mile deep. We can all agree, look at these sedimentary layers, the Coconino sandstone, the Hermit Shale, whatever. We can actually measure the thickness of these. We can agree on the size of the grains. You know what we're not going to agree on?

When those layers were laid down and how long they took to be laid down and when the canyon was carved because we didn't see it. And that's historical science. And so you see, the problem we have today is that the secularists is sort of like a bait and switch in a way.

They use the same word science for technology, science for doing chemistry experiments in the classroom, science for dissecting an animal, you know, science for building a computer. And then they use the same word science for origins. And people have this idea that, well, we've got all this great technology. So when you got a scientist talking about millions of years in evolution and we've got all this technology, we can't ignore science and we can't reject science.

So we have to believe millions of years and evolution. What they don't understand is that is talking about origins. It's a belief. And in fact, evolution of millions of years. are part of, I would say, the pagan religion of the age to explain life without God. Darwin's ideas are based on naturalism. Naturalism is atheism. So we've got to understand talking about origins is very different to talking about technology.

So when somebody says, but we've got to listen to what the scientists are saying about all this evidence, it's sort of like coming into a room where there's been a murder. and you didn't see it happen. And the circumstantial evidence, you might obtain someone's blood sample that's there. And you might even find fingerprints there. And you might say, well, this is the person that's guilty, but later on find out, yeah, they were in that room,

but they actually didn't do it. Somebody else did it. You can come to the wrong conclusion. Because all evidence is interpreted. And so all evidence is interpreted upon the presuppositions that you have. Right. And so when I'm looking at the grand, I'm thinking in terms of God has told me there's been a global flood. God has told me

what happened in the past here. God also has told us in his word there was no death before sin and yet those layers have dead things in them. Apostles. And so then I'm interpreting it within my worldview saying this doesn't fit with being laid down over millions of years. It fits with being catastrophically laid down during the flood of Noah's day just 4,300 years ago. When you go and dig up dinosaur bones, you don't dig them up with a little label saying, hi, I'm 200 million years old or something. When you dig them up, you just dig them up as bones. And based on evolutionist belief about how long the layers took to get there,

they then date those bones in accord with the beliefs they already have, which they have set out this geological column based on their belief of slow processes of a million's years. People don't realize that. The idea of millions of years, years actually came out of atheism of the late 1700s, early 1800s of secularists, some deers who were trying to explain the fossil record. They said we don't believe in Noah's flood, don't believe the Bible, so they believe it was laid down slowly over millions of years. But see, they weren't there to see any of that. And the more we look at the fossil record

over the earth, the more we see evidence of catastrophic processes. Things were buried quickly. You know, you find places where there's millions of fish. How were they fossilized? Because when fish die, they usually, what, sink, float, depends on fish, but they rot. There's not much left of them. To form fossil fish, like the ones we see, you have to cover something quickly.

And as you look in the fossil record all over the earth, it just cries out catastrophism. Everywhere you look, things buried quickly, which is all consistent with the flood of, knows day. Yeah. So secularists typically, like you said, the Bill and I said, that it's the Bible versus science. Secularists would say, well, we know what we know about the age of the earth, being billions of years old based on facts, whereas Christians, creationists, they base it on their beliefs. What you're saying is actually both sides are basing it on a belief.

Both sides are basing it on a presupposition. Our presupposition is that God, created the heavens in the earth and God's word is true. Their presupposition is that God did not create the heavens in the earth and his word is not true. And so based on those belief systems and those different worldviews, that is how each side is coming to their conclusion. But it's not that their side is based on just facts and observation. It's actually based on a belief system about God that he doesn't exist, right? You're exactly right. Ellie, you just said it. You could get one of my talks. Yeah, there we go. Because that is it. Your beliefs build your worldview. They didn't see the age of the earth. They weren't there when the earth started, right? Now, God was there,

and he reveals in his word. He created everything as six days, and he tells us Adam was made on day six, and then he had a son, Seth at 130 years old, and tells us Adam died at 930, and then it tells us when Seth had a son or someone, you can add up all those dates in the Bible, and you come to about 6,000 years. And I would say there's nothing in observational science that means what you can test in the present that contradicts thousands of years. But there's a lot that contradicts the millions of years. How do they get the millions of years? Well, it was built up basically on the basis of beliefs to start with. Now, they do use dating methods today, like uranium lead, potassium Margon. All those dating methods, though, are based on all sorts of fallible assumptions.

I mean, if you think about it, if you've got something that changes with time, like an hourglass, it's sort of like that as an analogy. You know, radioactive elements, uranium changing into lead over time. And if you know what's called the half-life, how long it takes for half of that to decay, and what the daughter elements are, and you dig up a sample and you assume that the lead that's there came from that uranium, you assume the rates have always stayed the same, you assume nothing has been leached out or leached in, you make all these assumptions, which are not all valid. In other words, those are assumptions. Then you calculate the age of things. But it's sort of like an hourglass. If you walked into a room and you saw sand falling through an hourglass, and you then stopped it

right then, said, okay, let's measure how much sand is here, how much hasn't gone through, let's measure the rate of which has been falling through. Okay, somebody turned this hourglass an hour ago. Well, wait a minute. Somebody could have come into the room and stopped it for a while. Somebody could have come in and turned it back the other way. You don't know what's happened. You weren't there to see it. So you could be totally wrong in your understanding. And that's why, for instance, when Mounts and Hallers erupted, May 18th, 1980. So as the lava came out, it then forms a dome and solidifies and seals off the volcano. And in the 1990s, using the potassium argon dating method, they dated the minerals in the dome.

And they dated up to a couple of million years old. But that dome was formed in the 1980s. So why did it date to so old? because it was using the potassium argon dating method, and they assume all the argon comes from the potassium, but argon comes up from the mantle in the lava, and it makes it look old because it's already got some there. And that's why it dates to old.

And the problem is when we know when a rock formed, we can work out why the dating method doesn't work. When we don't know when it formed, they assume it works. And so there's more problems there. So the point is, when you're dealing with the age of things, things, when you're dealing with the past, when you're dealing with origins, that's outside of the realm of observational science. That's historical science, it's beliefs about the past. That's what it is. And so, based on those beliefs, they're interpreting their evidence. You know, it's interesting that

some of the very same people who want to discredit entire institutions or even the United States itself by going back to the origin of it and saying, well, these founders were imperfect, they owned slaves, they didn't see, you know, women is having equal rights. And so all of the United States is kind of illegitimate or because it started with colonization. But some of those very same people, they won't do that when it comes to the theory of evolution. When they don't want to look back at Darwin and think about some of the presuppositions that he had. And actually, the eugenicist nature and ideology that he pushed, they're not willing to discredit all of this so-called science because of where it actually comes from. imperfection of the person who came up with this theory. But when it comes to things like the United

States or Christianity or the church, we have to pick it apart and say, well, these bad things have happened in the name of this. And so we should just do away with all of it. It's very interesting what people pick and choose to look at the origins of. Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's an important point that you do bring up there. Because consider the cancel culture. Okay. So somebody in the past made some statement because people can be inconsistent and and, you know, have not developed their thinking like they should and so on. But then they say, we've got to remove their statues. You've got to rip their name off an auditorium or get their books out of libraries.

Wait a minute. Darwin is totally protected. Why is Darwin totally protected? Because if you look at his book, The Descent of Man, that's one of the most racist books on the planet. He actually teaches that the Australian Aboriginals and people from Africa are closer to the apes. They're lower on the mental scale. whereas Caucasians are higher on the mental scale.

I mean, Stephen Jay Gill, the late Stephen Jay Gill from Harvard University, who was a Marxist evolutionist in 1977, said Darwin's ideas fueled racism. And there's no doubt about that. And Darwin's ideas fueled eugenics. I mean, Margaret Sanger, who founded Planned Parenthood, did it on the basis of Darwin's ideas. She said that, you know, we want to help man evolve to hire planes. And so she looked on that these sort of people back here, they're lower on the mental scale.

She took Darwin's ideas. They shouldn't be allowed to have children or we should stop them from having children. And we need to protect humanity so humanity can evolve to higher planes. I mean, Planned Parenthood was basically founded by somebody who founded on Darwin's ideas. Even Hitler used Darwin's ideas in regard to the superior race. eliminating others that are considered inferior. I mean, Darwin, his ideas have permeated the whole world. And if I can say one thing here, we actually would say you shouldn't call Darwin's ideas a theory.

Because a theory means you have evidence to support it, whereas we would say it's a belief. And in actual fact, the reason that Darwin is so protected, why is he so protected? Did you know in the 1900s, 1920s, the main biology book used in the public schools in America by a man called George Hunter actually taught eugenics, taught students that the Caucasians were the highest race, all based on Darwin's ideas, and yet Darwin is protected. Why is that? I'll tell you why it is, Ali, because he's the high priest of their religion. Do you know what Darwinian evolution?

I'm just going to be blunt. I'm an Australian. I hope I still have that accent. Yes, you do. I want to just say it bluntly. If you look at Darwin's motivation, what was he really trying to do? He wanted to come up with a way of explaining life without God

by natural processes. Naturalism is atheism. What is Darwinian evolution millions of years? What is it in reality? it's really the pagan religion of the age to try to explain everything without God. Look at the public schools. They've thrown, I mean the Judeo-Christian ethic used to permeate the culture in America, even the public schools, but that's gone now.

And they've thrown God out, the Bible out, prayer out, creation out. So what are they teaching kids that you explain the whole of life by natural processes? Naturalism is atheism. That's why Darwin is so protected, because Darwin's ideas are their so-called justification for atheism, and then the justification for their morality, or from a Christian perspective, immorality. In other words, if there's no God, it's like judges 21, 25, when there's no king, no absolute authority, everyone does what is right in his own eyes, so we want to know what's happening in our culture today. You have generations that have been taught, man's just,

just an animal, there's no God, and we're a result of natural processes, marriage is how you want to define it, genders how you want to define it, abortion, get rid of spare cats, get rid of spare kids, what's the difference? You're just animals anyway, we have a right to do what we want with our own bodies, and although a fertilized egg is not a part of woman's body anyway. I mean, it's a different combination of information and it's foreign tissue as far as the body is concerned, which is why the uterus has an anti-rejection drug mechanism to enable it to implant and so on. But my point is, once you abandon a foundation in an absolute authority, anything goes except the absolutes of Christianity. Because in a culture where anything goes,

what can't go, are the absolutes of Christianity that say, here's what's right and here's what's based on God's word. Mm-hmm. And I just want to lay out, because at one time I wrote out this connection between, because there are so many setting connections between Margaret Sanger, who started Planned Parenthood, who was an open eugenicist. She didn't hide that until it started getting, people started pushing back on the ideas. And, you know, the mid-century, the idea of after World War II of Eugenics being what drove

the Nazis. And so then she kind of had a PR crisis and she had to switch her. methods, but she was an open eugenicist. And the connection is really stunning because she had to move to Britain because she was standing trial in the United States for some of the ideas that she was pushing. And she joined the Malthusian League. The Malthusian League was based on Thomas Malthus. Thomas Malthus was the guy in the 18th century, I believe, who believed that we had this overpopulation crisis that, you know, all of their resources were going to be taken over and we really needed to reduce the birth rate and make sure that there were fewer people. While he inspired,

Darwin about a century later. And Darwin, as you said, he based it on a belief and a false belief because the Malthusian catastrophe has now mathematically been disproven many, many times throughout history. It's not true that human beings just take up all the resources and that we are overwhelming the earth with our presence. But he based it on that belief. He liked what Thomas Malthus had to say. He came up with this idea of natural selection. And as you said, that then, inspired people like Margaret Sanger, Sir, I think it was Francis Gowton was his name, who came up with this idea of... He was a eugenicist. Yes, he was a eugenicist. He was his cousin who also inspired Margaret Sanger. And so the connections are all there. But as you said, so rightly, Darwin's ideas and then the

subsequent, the consequential ideas after that are all based on a presupposition about the world and how it was created. He didn't come up with this because, you know, he put it to test. and he had evidence for it, as you said. I think it's so important for people to recognize that. You know, you mentioned Francis Galton there. You know what's interesting about that? It's sort of a little aside, but it relates to what we're saying earlier. He was one of the ones that was able to get Darwin buried in Westminster Abbey.

And the reason he wanted Darwin buried in Westminster Abbey is he wanted people to see the church honoring Darwin because he knew that would help undermine the church. because Darwin's ideas undermine the authority of scripture. And the interesting thing is Darwin is buried in the foundation of the church. He's in the floor. When I've been over in Westminster Abbey, the first time I was looking for Darwin's grave. And then I found it. It's in the floor.

And I thought, interesting. Very interesting. Because if the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do? Psalm 113. So a man who popularized a philosophy to undermine and destroy the foundations of the church is honored by the church and buried in the foundation of the church. And you think of what's happening today. Many Christian leaders and people in church have accepted Darwin's ideas,

reinterpreted Genesis, undermining the authority of scripture, undermining the foundational history that's foundational to all of our doctrine, morality, our worldview, everything. And we're seeing now a church today that's very lukewarm. We're seeing catastrophic generational loss from the church. and now we're seeing that those who are Christians are considered the enemy, or even those who are conservative, which really hold the Christian values, considered the enemy as moral relativism really takes over the culture.

I do want to get into your thoughts about reformation and what's needed and all of that, because you mentioned the catastrophic decline in church attendance, but to get back to some of the technical stuff that I know people have questions on, we have these little dinosaurs right here because we've kind of jokingly talked about, how do we know really what dinosaurs looked like? Today we have all these depictions of dinosaurs with the, they're sure that their skin looked like this, that they sounded like this, that they looked like this.

And how do we know? I'm skeptical about the modern rendering of dinosaurs. How do we know that dinosaurs really existed and that they weren't just big hippopotamuses? Well, first of all, you need to be skeptical about what they actually look like, simply because when they find dinosaur bones, they really only find a few. There's not that many.

Now, we have a reconstruction of a dinosaur skeleton at the Creation Museum. It's a big one. It's an allosaurus. It's said to be the best allosaurus skull ever found. It's 97% complete. And the secularist hated the fact that we were donated that. It's worth over a million dollars. And there were a few other bones found.

And so based on other bones that have been found and other, you know, deposits, They're able to sort of reconstruct, you know, the bones of that dinosaur. But they don't find all the bones of a dinosaur when they find those. But first of all, do I believe in dinosaurs? And the answer is yes. But let me explain. People say, but the Bible doesn't have the word dinosaur in it. It doesn't say God created dinosaurs.

Well, it doesn't have the word email in it either, right? Because email is a modern word. The word dinosaurs are modern word. It wasn't invented until 1841. by a man called Sir Richard Owen. He was a famous British Anonymous, founded the British Museum of Natural History. And in 1841, from two Greek words,

Dinios and Soros, he invented the name Dinosaur, which means terrible lizard. That's why most people think dinosaurs are all great big monsters. And what had happened was, back in the early 1800s, some would say it even goes back to the 17th century, but that bones were found.

But really, the first bones that were really found and named were in 1822 by a lady whose husband was interested in fossils and so on. And they found the bones of a creature called iguandodon. So iguanidon and then megalosaurus were the first two. And Sir Richard Owen realized there's this group of animals we're finding in the fossil record that have certain distinguishing characteristics. and so he invented the name dinosaur. Now, since that time, we would say there's about 80 different kinds of dinosaurs that have been found.

Do we know what their skin like? Well, we found some fossils of skin, and so it sort of looks like a reptile skin. You can't be sure of all the colors and things like that, and we're sure that they all had skin like that. So there's been a debate about whether they're cold-blooded or warm-blooded. we would say they're basically like reptiles, like crocodiles or alligators or something like that, but they didn't have their legs out to the side like reptiles today. These had their legs more underneath, supporting them more like a horse or a cow.

That's why they're a distinct kind of land animal. Gotcha. And certain features in their skulls, certain holes in their skulls and so on. And so here's the way we should look at this. when we find their bones, of course, the evolutionists would say they're millions years old, I would say they're the bones from the flood 4,300 years ago. Now, when people say, what did God make dinosaurs? Well, God made all the kinds of land animals on day six.

And we would say from our research, probably about 1,300 different kinds of land animals. And the way we found that out, we've done a lot of research for our life-size arc attraction that we have and answering all these questions, you can go through the whole arc, through all three decks, you've been there and you've seen it. Well, we talk about what a kind is. And if you look at dogs, there's 34 species of dogs, but they can all be connected genetically. This one bred with that one, this one, this one breeds with this one. In other words, they're all connected, so they're all the one kind.

And so you only did two dogs on the ark that came off and gave the different varieties of dogs, different species of dogs eventually, which is not evolution because they're still dogs. And so God made distinct kinds of animals. He made the dog kind, the elephant kind, the cat kind. Now, he made a number of kinds of animals that we'll classify today as dinosaurs. So of the 1,300 kinds of land animals God made, a subset of them, about 80, today we give the name dinosaur to. So it's an arbitrary term invented in 1841. Two of each kind of land. animal, seven pairs of some, went on board Noah's Ark. Would that include the dinosaurs? It would include the group of animals that today we call dinosaurs. Those that didn't go on the ark,

drowned, some of them covered in in the mud and turned into fossils. That's why we find fossils on them. Came off the ark and moved out over the Earth, and a lot of animals, not just the dinosaurs, have become extinct because of changing conditions because Noah's flood caused climate change. and generated an ice age that also caused climate change. That's a whole other issue. If our politicians reject the Bible and reject the history about the flood and the ice age, they get it all wrong in regard to climate change. And then they make wrong decisions.

That's a whole other issue. And so we would even say, too, that when you look around the world, you know, there are flood legends all over the world. And Australian Aboriginal people have all sorts of flood legends and the American Indians and the Fijians and the Hawaiians and cultures all over the world. And we've got an exhibit on that in the ark where we show that when you look at these flood legends, it almost sounds like you're reading the account of the flood in Genesis 6 through 9 in the Bible. And elements are the same.

Some of them, you know, they all have this ship, animal saved, people saved. Some of them have three suns saved in a bow, it landing on a mountain, a rainbow at the end of the flood. all these sort of elements that are similar. And we'd say that's because the real records in the Bible, and as people moved away from the Tower of Babel, that they took the account with them, changed it, they become Dreamtime legends, you know, all these different legends. But the elements that are still similar to the Bible are there,

but the real records in the Bible. And a flood legion is just like a marker in the earth that shows that this area was flooded at one point. Well, we have sedimentary strata over 70% of the Earth's surface. And some of that strata is miles deep. So we would say, you know, the flood, you look at the Grand Canyon. If you go to where the Grand Canyon visitor center is, it's a mile deep there, a mile of sediments right there. In some places, it's miles deep.

Massive catastrophe. So the flood left us mark all over the earth. The whole Earth's been scoured by the flood. So you have these flood legends because there was a real flood. Well, you also have dragon legends. And how come you've got dragon legends so prevalent in many places? And when you look at the descriptions to some of those dragons, they actually sound like some of the dinosaurs.

The country of Wales, its national emblem is a dragon on the flag, for instance. So we would say that people were familiar with these creatures as they increased on the earth after the flood, but over time they died out. So even St George and the dragon, it's one of those legends, but it's probably got a basis in fact that there was an encounter with this creature,

but when you look at the description, again, it fits what we would call one of the dinosaurs. Now, we're not saying for sure dragons were dinosaurs, but it all makes sense. It all sorts of fits. And if you go to the Bible in the book of Job, Job chapter 40, God's talking to Job about this giant animal

and he says it's the largest of the ways of God, the largest land animal God made. It has a tail that moves like a cedar if you ever seen the cedars a Lebanon. Well, there are Bible commentaries that say this animal behemoth was probably a hippopotamus or an elephant. But if you look at an elephant's tail, or you look at a hippo's tail.

Yeah, that's true. They're not like a ced tree waving in the window like a little flapper skin or something like that. And the largest land animal God made, so far, the largest land animal we know of are the bones of one of the big sauropods, like seismosaurus or something like that. And so we would say that's probably a dinosaur, probably more like a sauropod dinosaur that Job is familiar with. And the reason many people would say, no, that couldn't be, is because they've been impacted by the evolutionist belief that dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago. Right. And so therefore they say, no, dinosaurs didn't.

live with people. You take the history according to the Bible, all the land animals existed at the same time, all the land animal kinds beside Adam and Eve. Well, that's what I was going to ask. Because someone asked me a few years ago, I think they, you know, were trying to stop me or something. They said, okay, if death did not exist until after the fall, how do you explain the fact that dinosaurs, and there's a presupposition there, but that dinosaurs obviously died. before humans were created. How do you explain that? And of course, then I didn't have the answer,

but you're saying that's based on the belief that evolution is true and that the earth is billions and billions of years old. There's actually no reason for us to believe you're saying that humans and dinosaurs couldn't have existed together. Exactly. And the bones we find are from the flood

4,300 years ago, not from millions of years ago. And it's interesting that they've also found today more and more, not just dinosaur bones, but other bones as well, when they dissolve out the mineralization in the bones, they find soft tissue, they find red blood cells. And that's been perplexing for the evolutionists because, wait a minute, if these are millions of years old, how come we still have soft tissue? I mean, it's springy. You can actually pull it apart like this, and you see red blood cells. So you know what? Their answer is, their answer is, well, there must

to be in a preservation process that we don't understand. In other words, they're committed to their millions of years. And so no matter what it is, I'll come up with a way of trying to explain it away. All right. I know y'all enjoyed that. There's going to be some controversy in the YouTube comments. I can just feel it. We'll come back tomorrow for even more. We are going to be talking about the basis of the beliefs of so-called science today and of Darwin himself. And what is actually holding this belief system up and how do we as Christians biblically and scientifically combat it? All right, we will be here tomorrow for that amazing second part of this conversation. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Alley, you already understand that the biggest issues

facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective. reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.