Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 872 | 'My Father Had Three Families': How to Forgive the Unforgivable | Guest: June Hunt (Part One)

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Today we're joined by June Hunt, author, singer, and founder of Hope for the Heart, a worldwide biblical counseling ministry. June shares her story of salvation, from growing up learning that her father had three concurrent families to learning to forgive him for his abuse and hostility. She shares how impressed she was with authentic Christians and how that helped lead to her salvation. We discuss June's wrestling with the idea of forgiveness – is forgiving someone just letting them off the hook? June shares her definition of forgiveness and why it's so important to release our right to be apologized to. Stay tuned for part two tomorrow! --- Timecodes: (01:45) June's story: father & family (12:06) Father's abuse & mother's response (13:50) June's salvation (23:10) Father's second family (25:13) Becoming a youth leader (30:20) Confronting her father (36:57) Learning about forgiveness / forgiving her father --- Today's Sponsors: A'Del — go to adelnaturalcosmetics.com and enter promo code "ALLIE" for 25% off your first order! Naturally It's Clean — visit https://naturallyitsclean.com/allie and use promo code "ALLIE" to receive 15% off your order. If you are an Amazon shopper you can visit https://amzn.to/3IyjFUJ, but the promo code discount is only valid on their direct website at www.naturallyitsclean.com/Allie. CrowdHealth — get your first 6 months for just $99/month. Use promo code 'ALLIE' when you sign up at JoinCrowdHealth.com. Patriot Mobile — go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 878-PATRIOT and use promo code 'ALLIE' to get free activation! --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. June Hunt is an author, singer, speaker, and founder of Hope for the Heart, a worldwide biblical counseling ministry. I grew up for many years listening to June Hunt at night on the radio, giving biblical advice to those who are in need. of it. This part of this conversation, of this two-part conversation, is about her stunning testimony, which is just going to get you to your core of being raised by an abusive father who simultaneously had two other families. And what this taught her about who God is, about forgiveness and about

reconciliation, you are going to be on the edge of your seat. Listening to June, talk about her life story in how God has used it for incredible redemption. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com. Code Allie. Ms. June Hunt, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. I love being with you. I'm excited to be with you. Me too. Me too. When we saw each other a couple months ago, a few months ago at the arc encounter, we were talking about a few different things. And one of the things that came up in our conversation was this topic of forgiveness, why it's a difficult topic for Christians and non-Christians alike. Some of us even misunderstand what it really means. So that's at least one of

the things I want to focus on with you today. But before we get into that topic, for those who don't know your story, why this is a subject that is very personal to you, can you just tell us where you come from? What's your testimony? Well, in terms of forgiveness, it made no sense to me. I didn't understand. I heard the word forgiveness, but how can you just let somebody off the hook? So this was my mindset. And my challenge was my father because, and I did not share this for decades, literally decades, because I didn't have word.

and I didn't know how to talk about it. My dad had three families going on concurrently. And we were the third family. So actually, I grew up in a made-up family like we had a fictitious last name. I was June Wright for a number of years in school. And I knew how to sign. the papers like who is your father and I made it R.E. right because I was told that this is what I needed to do. And I wanted to be loyal to the family. So we were this family off on the side in Dallas. And I had a brother, a year older, and then I had two younger sisters. And my objective was I needed to take care of my two sisters especially.

And I wanted to be my mom's protector. Then when I was 12, we moved into my father's home because his first wife had died. And then 11 months later, my parents married. Okay, so your parents weren't married when you were born. where your siblings were born. Did you know that they weren't married? Did you know that anything was a miss or not really? I just knew there was a man who would come to our house and kind of, he wanted me to call him

partner. And so that's what we called him. And it was kind of odd. Nobody else I knew would say that. But I just kind of knew not to talk, not to tell friends, not to ever comment. I wasn't told not to tell. there are times nobody had what I had and then when we my parents married I was on a Sunday and I remember going to school and all of a sudden my schoolmate said your mother married why didn't you

tell us and I was stunned first of all how did they know number two I I said in my mind, not out loud, why would I tell you? And then I found out it was on the front page of the Dallas Morning News. Nobody told me. You know, in a dysfunctional family, there's not good communication and there's not good problem solving. There's not conflict resolution.

I didn't even know the word, Ali Beth. I didn't know the word dysfunctional family, but we clearly were a dysfunctional family. Right. And my mom was sweet, sweet, sweet. Never saw anything that would lack character except in this one area because she had huge shame about her. And she had no friends. And that was, I could not understand.

She was sweet. She could be joyful. And, but it's like there's this hidden part of her, and he was 28 years older. So she was like a trophy wife, but she wasn't mercenary at all. She wasn't monetarily focused. She was trying to protect us. I knew that. And we spent a lot of time at my grandmother's.

So I was in Idavel, Oklahoma, for every, like a case. Christmas, you know, Easter, Thanksgiving. And that was my safe place. And I had two cousins, male cousins, and my brother and I, we made a fearsome for some playing football and baseball, you know, tag football and whatever. And but nobody ever, ever talked about our situation. And then later,

So now I'm in school and a teacher comes up to me and says, June, what do we call you? You're going by June Wright on your papers and your brother is signing his name Hunt. And I didn't, now I didn't know what to do. And I thought, okay, well, if he's doing that, I'll go on and be June Hunt. So again, conversation wasn't. Confusion. And at my dad's home now, we were not allowed to talk during dinner as kids, unless it was of interest to everyone. Well, whatever we would say would not be of interest to him.

And so likewise later, my dad came up to me and said, you're a bad influence on your mother. So you will have no contact with her after dinner. How old were you? It could have been 13, 14, you know, right in there. Bad influence. Well, I finally, well, in fact, then it extended to all of us. We were all a bad influence on mother, so we had no contact. So we would go up and do homework.

And, by the way, this was not what my mom wanted. she was again very tender-hearted and I later tried to think Allie Beth I thought how did she get in this situation I thought okay her dad died when she was four he my father is double her age so I think that had a lot to do with it he was like a father figure but he wasn't really kind. At times he could be cruel. And I remember when these students came up to me and said, why didn't, you know, and my parents had married, I remember going to a store, Skillern's drug store, and I purchased something. And then the clerk said, oh,

your mother got married, is that your real father? And I said, yes. And then as I was walking to the pharmacy, I had to pick up something there. So I walked to the pharmacy, and I thought, oh, that doesn't sound good. That doesn't, that doesn't look good. And so then I was asked the same identical question, is that your real father? And I said, no. and I remember walking out thinking, okay, the wrong answer is the right answer for it to look right. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. So I did have a problem with lying for quite a while in my, even into my early adulthood.

I didn't want to. I thought I don't understand me. I don't understand. But then I thought, well, then I thought, well, I, when do I, when was the first time I remember even lying? And I thought, well, my whole life was a lie the way we lived for quite a bit of time. But nobody, again, was talking. And I didn't know how to talk about it and wouldn't have talked about it. So what did happen, though, dad would at times just attack mom verbally.

And I learned then later there was physical abuse. But not that she would ever say anything. But one day, I remember he just lashed out her at her. And I thought, why? She is only supportive, only kind. She never tries to turn any of us against him. And I went up to her with clinched teeth. How can you be so nice to him?

And she said, oh, honey, he doesn't know the Lord. If he only knew the Lord, he wouldn't be that way. I didn't know what to do with that. I, it's like, oh, she, she's focusing on his need. I'm just focusing on his fault. And then I began to realize, see, at that time now, I had become a Christian, and how we got into a Christian church was amazing. But originally, I knew no Bible. I knew, I was in a church, a mainline denomination, but no Bible.

was taught. I knew. The only scripture I knew was when everyone would say the Lord's Prayer and the congregation. And that was the denomination my mom was raised in. But in terms of ever reading the Bible, I was a blank page. So I remember now ended up being like 15. in a biblically based church, and I was stunned at these authentic Christians, because I didn't even, I mean, I was asked, do you know, you're a Christian? I said, yes. But Ali Beth, what that meant to me was, okay, was I Jewish or a Christian? I was not Jewish, so yes, I'm a Christian.

And then it was the young people. It was the youth that were saying to me, You know, Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship with God through Christ. And I thought, why would they say it's not a religion? But I wasn't verbal, so I didn't say those words. But that second part stuck with me. It's a relationship.

Well, I've never heard anything like that. And by the way, I'm very aware that many people have never heard of the authentic relationship that we are, that God wants us to have with him, and that we can literally enter into, we receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior. Lord means master, ruler, owner. But I didn't know any of that. But I watched, and I was so impressed with authentic Christians. I mean, they clearly.

had something that I did not have and I wanted that. And I was invited to youth camp. They said, oh, you'll really like that. That's really wonderful. It's fun. And I thought, huh, okay. And there was a magic store near. Anyway, I knew her a magic store.

So went and I looked around, they had some, itching powder. And I thought, maybe they played tricks on each other. So I bought some itching powder. But then I go to youth camp and they have phenomenal

activities like, but they were Bible-oriented for many of them in the morning. And I'd never seen a missionary. I just thought all missionaries, it just had

big buns on. their heads, but that was not really what they had. These were like normal people. And I just was fascinated. And then finally, I went to the Bible teacher, who was my Sunday school teacher, and I said, I want to ask a question, how do I know if I'm a Christian? I think I am. And she wisely said, there was no way she could think I was a Christian, but she said, I can't know your heart like God knows your heart. But if you weren't a Christian, would you be willing, would you be willing to do whatever God would want you to do to become a Christian? I thought, well, what would God want me to do? And I was just, I'm analytical. I'm math. Math makes sense to me.

that may not make sense to other people, but it makes sense to me. And I'm thinking, what if it doesn't work? Because I had seen people walk down an aisle and pray to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. And I'd never seen that before. There were many, many people, adults and teenagers, you know, young people. And I'd think, what if it doesn't work? I thought, well, if it doesn't work, I guess it doesn't work. But what if it would have worked?

And yet I refused. And I thought, you know, very candidly, I know there's a script that says, if you have faith as big as a mustard seed. I didn't even have the mustard seed. I mean, I had maybe an eighth of the mustard seed. I was being drawn because of the youth leaders and the youth themselves. and I wanted what they had. And as I looked at them, I thought, they have all this information.

That's it. They know. They can actually, if the pastor or a teacher says of scripture, they just go, and they're there. I think, how do they do that? That's like a magic trick. And that's what I really thought. It was like a magic trick.

Not that I thought it was magic, but I was so impressed that they knew the Bible, and I knew nothing. and they would sit by me and turn in the Bible when it would be time to get to a particular passage. And they were so kind. And nobody made fun of me for not knowing anything. But what I can tell you is I now had a decision to make. Would I be willing to humble my heart and receive Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior?

And I finally decided, I don't know if it'll work, but I will try. And so I prayed a prayer of salvation. Simply, God, I know my life is confusing. I don't know you in a personal way. And Jesus, I'm asking you to come into my life. to be my personal Lord and Savior, I give you control of my life the best way I know how. And I wondered if I would feel something different. But, you know, the bottom line is, you know, I learned that salvation is based on feelings.

It's based on will we humble our hearts. It's a decision, an act of the will. will I choose to allow Christ to take control of my life? And I really needed that. But there was this one area I was changing in a lot of ways. And this was when you were a teenager, correct? I was a teenager. Yes, I was a junior in high school when that took place.

But this area of forgiveness, because I would see a scripture like Colossians 313 says, bear with each other and forgive whatever grievance you have against one another, forgive as the Lord forgave you. But it didn't, how could it be? It's like letting somebody off the hook, and there's no accountability. And I thought, well, the two people that God made first, Adam and Eve, they were told one thing not to do. what did they do? They did the one thing that they were told not to do. They ate from that tree. And there was a consequence because he had said there would be a consequence.

But as I was hearing about forgiveness, there didn't seem to be a consequence. No accountability to change. I mean, you're just supposed to forgive. And so I couldn't figure that out. So I kind of, I didn't disagree with the Bible. I knew not to do that. I just didn't understand it. So I kind of put it somewhere over here.

Yeah. And, and I did confront my dad about his women. So this was when you were a teenager. And this, okay, because I do, I have been wanting to ask a clarifying question about this, since you brought up the women. You said that his first wife died and he moved in with your mom, got married. What happened to the second family? Was that ongoing?

I didn't know about them. Okay. Probably when I was in maybe early college, I'd seen these two different men who were maybe 10 years older than me that periodically would be at our home, Hugh and Howard. And finally, one day Hugh came up to me, he said, now you know you're my half-sister, don't you? I said, no, I wasn't aware of that. And he said, yes, there are four of us in Atlanta. Wow.

I said, oh, thank you for telling me. But, you know, I don't think I went to anybody in our family, my brother, you know, to say, by the way, what was going? You just somehow, we didn't communicate about those things. But nothing really surprised me. And so I just, at some point, my name changed with me. And I wondered, you know, when I had to do something in college, I thought, what will my birth certificate say?

And it was June right. Yes. I mean, I'm sorry. It was Ruth June Hunt. Yes. And so, okay, that is my name. And from the time I was born. And so, you know, but somehow not talking about these things,

just and never telling, talking to people about my family life. So people who knew me, they didn't know my real story. And, you know, after I graduated from college, it's very interesting. The pastor of the church, I was a huge church. He said, you are going to be our junior high director. There were 600 in the junior high division. Now, I had been saved through the senior high ministry, and I didn't even want to do that. but I knew it was right, and I said,

when's the latest time I can come, and he gave me three weeks? Well, Ali Beth, as you can imagine, there would be loners at times, kids. There would be those who were shut down. I knew that personally, and I was so drawn to them, and I would give one-on-one attention, and I would put my hand on the shoulder. Here would be a boy that would be my first day. There was a guy who was just tearing the slats down to tell people where to go,

and I walked in, and I just went up to him. I said, hi, I'm June. I'm the new junior high director. What's your name? Jerry. I said, hi, Jerry. and then I said a few things. I said, you know, Jerry, I don't know the names of so many here because I'm so new.

Is it possible that I could ask you at times who is here? I mean, what is that person's name? And he looked all right. And I put my hand on his shoulder. I said, that would mean a lot to me. But I've got a whole bunch of watermelons. Could I use your muscle? Could you get a couple of buddies and I need your muscle to get the watermelons from the first floor to the fourth floor?

And can I, could you help me? And he kind of goes like this. All right. Yeah. Sure. And so I, and it was fascinating because he was a. rebel. He was a loner, and I remember on a choir tour. I was just there for support because I was the junior high director, and not for music, but bottom line, I saw he didn't sit with anybody

on the bus when they were touring, and I went up to him and sat on the side, just on the the handlebar, and I said, what is your book? I see a book, and he said, F stops. I said, F stops. Are you, do you like cameras? And he said, yeah. I said, well, Jerry, would you be our official photographer for the whole junior high division? And then he looked down just at his feet. He said, I don't have a camera. Well, if I got you a camera, would you be our official photographer? And he looked up, yeah. I said, I'll provide all the film. So he ended up coming to everything.

And when he was a senior in high school graduating, he brought me the annual. and he was the photographer for the senior class. And later that summer, he drowned. And his mom, a year later, came to me and he said, June, there were only two people who really reached out to Jerry. You, and he mentioned a man named Perry, and she said, his mom said, it changed his life that somebody believed in him

and would give him personal attention. Well, I knew what it was like to not feel seen and I understood that he was a middle boy of five boys and there was no father in the home. And he needed someone to literally, he needed several someone's to pay attention to him and literally see that he had value and to see that God had a plan and purpose for him.

So very early on, God is already using your hardship in a redemptive way to relate to the people that you were serving in church. You had felt, I'm guessing, rejection by your father, even though he was technically there. But you said that after you became a Christian, you actually did confront him about some of these things, right? Which I imagine was really hard to do, not just because of the rejection,

also because of the power that he held in the home, and because you said that you all hadn't communicated about this stuff at all. So tell me about that. Tell me about that confrontation and what that led to. I was at home, and for some reason my mom was at a school event with my other siblings and I said how can you be

how mother is totally dedicated to you how can you be so cruel to her at times and how can you have these other women and he said I'm not a Christian I don't have to go by Christian ethics and then he said and she's mentally ill Now that just...

That's what you said about your mother. Well, what scared me was this. I knew she wasn't mentally ill. That is a common... That is not unusual for some abusive men to say about their wives. And it scares them later because then they...

Because mother asked me, am I mentally ill? He said, Mother, you are not mentally ill. And he would take her to psychiatrists And none of them agreed. But my fear was this, Allie Beth. I thought money can buy power. He was a president of a company. He had money.

And from that respect, since money buys power, I was afraid that he would find a psychiatrist who he could pay off and then institutionalize my mom because his eldest son was institutionalized in the East Coast from his first marriage. And he loved that son. And that son was actually the age of my mom. So it was very odd. Yes. But I lived with fear for years until close until my dad died in the upper 20s.

And so how did you and when did you kind of realize that you were holding on to this, what many people would call, justified anger and resentment against your dad who mistreated the mom that you loves who mistreated you made you and your siblings feel like you were nothing at what point in your walk with Christ did you realize this is the big one this is what I'm hanging on to well since you asked about the confrontation yeah it did not go well because then after that I was beaten and you never forget a beating now this was not ongoing going with me. But I thought I won because I didn't, I remember saying, hell will freeze over before I shed a tear. Now, I wasn't a Christian really at that point. It was just before becoming

a Christian. But nevertheless, I decided I will not shed a tear. And so he just wore out. And he's a big man. Wow. And then I just was on this bed and I said, are you finished? And he said, yes. So I slowly slid off and slinked away. And I thought, I won. I won because I didn't shed a tear.

And mother came in. And I told her what had happened. And then I was sorry I did because she felt responsible because it was about her, but she wasn't responsible. And then the next day, I was sent off to boarding school. Oh, wow. And that crushed mom. So, you know, and by the way, at that point, that was, I know we weren't doing things consecutively timewise, but I'm sorry about that. That's okay. But I was a sophomore at that point, and I wasn't a Christian yet. And I just remember I made all F's and 1D that quarter

when I was and I just couldn't process I couldn't I didn't know what to do and then came you know home for the summer but not really home for the summer I was sent away and we were

all sent away to camp and camp is supposed to be a positive thing but when you're being sent away that's a whole different feeling and it is rejection. So I think the issue was then later becoming a Christian when I was a junior in high school. I did believe the Bible. I was, I saw, I did have a changed life, but I didn't, again, I didn't know what to do with the scriptures on forgiveness.

And there was a, in my 20s, there was a conference that a man wanted me to go to, and I did. And he was a doctor. And he said, I'm paying your way. And so I said, oh, okay. And so the question was asked, how many of you feel that you're the exception, that there's a concept of forgiveness, but God knows your. situation and that's different. And I raised my hand and there were about 300 people there. And I remember very distinctly, there were four of four hands that went up. And then this doctor came over to me. He said, June, I saw that you raised your hand. And I said, yes. And he said, what percentage

do you think you were wrong and that your dad was wrong? So, What would the percentage be? I thought, hmm, I hadn't thought of it that way. I said, well, I would say he was 98% wrong and I was 2% wrong. And then he said, aren't you responsible for your 2%? Oh, yes, I am. He said, well, what would you need to do about your 2%? I said, I don't know, but I understand I am responsible.

So I deeply thought about it, seriously thought about it, and I thought I've never thanked him for a roof over my head, for books for school, and food on the table. So I went to him and I said, Dad, may I speak with you? and he had a newspaper and he looked up at me. And I said, I have been an ungrateful daughter. See, I've been a youth director and I told all these adults that the most difficult thing for a parent is an ungrateful child. And therefore, we need to be so aware of that dynamic. And then I said, I have been an ungrateful daughter. I've never thanked you for the roof over my head, for books for school, and food on the table.

Would you be willing to forgive me? And he had his newspaper looking at me. And he said something totally uncharacteristic. He said, the pleasure was all mine. And then he went right back to the newspaper. That's not even his language. But I thought, but I've done what is right. because now God was helping me see myself in a different light.

And I didn't understand forgiveness until I really started focusing to a studied on it. And I found that the word forgive means release. It means to dismiss, like to dismiss a debt. And, Ali Beth, let's say someone comes to you and says, I don't know what to do. I have this bill. I have to pay for the electrical, just to keep our lights on. Could I borrow $100? And I promise I can pay it back within the month.

and you say, yes, I'll do that. And so now you pay, give her the $100. But then all of a sudden she's in a car crash and she can't work like she was. She's in the hospital. And you're aware of what's going on. And so let's say three months goes by and you say, I want you to know.

You go to her and you say, I've chosen to forgive the debt. You don't have to pay me back. And it's a gift of grace you're giving her. And you forgive the debt. And she is deeply appreciative, but she really can't pay the debt. Well, that word forgive the debt is in our English language, and it means to dismiss.

So forgive, forgiveness means, means to dismiss what someone else owes you. And it's an act of the will. It's dismissing the debt granting forgiveness, which means the person is no longer, if you will, on the hook to pay you back. And so it's when they fail to meet your expectations, when they fail to keep their promises,

They fail to even treat you unjustly. That is what the concept is. It's not that it's earned. They've not earned it, but you choose to dismiss the debt. And this is where, you know, Jesus said, if someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And the Bible even says, let no debt remain outstanding, the continuing debt to love. So biblically, to love does what's best in behalf of the other person.

So there's another word besides dismiss, and that would be release. To release your right to get even. To release your right to literally hear, I'm sorry. Now, that was a big deal to me. I kept waiting for my dad to say, I'm sorry, to apologize. And by the way, I never did hear that. But I knew I was bitter toward my dad. I hated him for how he treated my mom. It's like, hurt me. Don't hurt her.

And it's not that I wanted to be hurt, but it's like, if it's one or the other, do it to me. And yet that wasn't what was going on. But you release your right to pay back in kind or to dwell on the offense, to keep holding onto the fence. You release your right to keep ringing up the offense. And, you know, the Bible says do not repay anyone evil for evil. Okay, so that was part one of our two-part conversation. Tomorrow we are going to have an incredible conversation as well about domestic violence,

emotional abuse. What is emotional abuse? Some people say that that's not even a real category, but she's going to give us the biblical perspective on that, what it looks like to forgive someone without just letting them get away with their abuse and with their misdeeds. And so you don't want to miss that. You're going to be so encouraged by what she has to say tomorrow. Thanks so much for listening or watching.

We will see you back here soon. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even. when it's unpopular.

This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.