Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 897 | A Detransitioner on the Lie of Trans ‘Joy’ | Guest: Laura Perry Smalts (Part Two)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Today is part two of a two-part conversation with Laura Perry, who lived for nine years presenting as a man named Jake, but who was transformed by the power of the gospel and realized that her true identity as a woman is what God had created for her and, also what God had called her to fulfill. And so today she is going to continue her story, continue to draw gospel-centered lessons out of what she experienced and specifically highlight the path of redemption and healing that God took her on as she re-transitioned into who she always

Starting point is 00:01:18 really was, a woman named Laura. This is an incredible story of God's healing power and how he can and will save anyone that he wants to save and redeem. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use Code Alley. Check out that's good ranchers.com code Alley. You were taking the testosterone, presenting as a man, I'm guessing, that gave you facial hair, it deepened your voice.

Starting point is 00:01:58 And then how long were you on testosterone before you decided to get what they call top surgery, which is a double mastectomy? Yeah, I was on hormones for probably a little. I started in October of 2007 living as trans, but I wasn't able to get hormones for several months. So it was maybe a year and a half that I was on hormones. So not really very long. And you were really chasing that high. Yeah. Of thinking at first when you were on testosterone, you felt good. And then after a while, that high kind of wears off. And you're like, no, well, I have to do the next thing that's really going to make it real. I'll finally be able to look in the mirror. and say you are Jake. Right. So you got the double mesectomy. Like, what was the physical process of that? I mean, obviously we know what it entails,

Starting point is 00:02:45 but I'm sure that there was a lot of pain that was associated with it. Yeah, there was. And, you know, it was outpatient. So I was recovering in a hotel room in San Francisco with a friend of mine that really wasn't a nurse. Oh, you had to go to San Francisco. Yeah. Well, and the reason I went to San Francisco,

Starting point is 00:03:00 he was one of the world's most renowned surgeons for this type of surgery on female to male transgenders. And so I went and I paid a little more money, but he'd had really good results. And, but it was a, it was very painful. But even more than the physical pain, I just the, I think the hardest thing for me, the emotional pain of realizing that this didn't make it real because I really believed it was going to. I knew I still planned to have other surgeries in the future. But I thought this was going to make me legally male. So I really believed that the dysphoria would completely go away. And when it didn't, it was devastating. And how quickly did you realize after surgery that that wasn't it? Really, maybe a few weeks. I don't know that I would

Starting point is 00:03:49 have come to that conclusion as soon, except I had a boss that was a lesbian. And so she was very pro-LGB. She thought this was great. She was so excited for me. And I remember a few weeks, I'd maybe I was off for about four weeks, so I'd been back a couple weeks, so maybe six weeks later. She came to me and she said, look, I don't know what's going on with you, but you're moping around here. You're depressed. You're not working as hard. You're unmotivated.

Starting point is 00:04:14 I don't know what's wrong, but I went the old Jake back. And I was shocked. It was like, what do you mean? I'm the happiest I've ever been in my life. You know, and you don't know what you're talking about. I'm still recovering, but I'm fine. And I blew her off, but I went home that night, and I couldn't get out of my head. and I thought, what is she seeing in me that I'm not seeing in myself?

Starting point is 00:04:35 And I finally had to admit I had been suppressing this depression. Because I don't know how soon I would have really realized it, but every time that little thought would come up, I would just suppress it. And I wouldn't allow myself to face that knowledge that this wasn't real. But that really forced me to face it. I was like, I know that she's right. And in fact, I look back on my license pictures, and I hear this from parents all the time,

Starting point is 00:05:00 their kids are not as happy as they're claiming to be. And I look back at my driver's license pictures. And I was like, wow, I can see that I was very depressed. You can look in my eyes and see that I was not happy, but I thought I was. Yeah. And you know, you see that with a lot of these people on social media who all claim, like, they claim their full proof argument is, but this makes me happy. Right. But I feel good. But you kind of even look at what they're posted on social media, which I don't think is necessarily always a good representation of. Right. how things really are, but you can kind of see the sadness and the emptiness behind their eyes. And it's like you're saying that you're happy and that you feel good.

Starting point is 00:05:40 You don't look happy. You don't look like you feel good. Not that even happiness is a justification for all of this, but I think that even that part also seems to be a lie that maybe they're telling themselves, too, not just other people. Yeah. And in fact, and I've seen many videos of trans people, some of the big. influencers over the years are beginning to question a little more. There are some of them that are really speaking the truth, and they're not even detransitioning necessarily because they don't see

Starting point is 00:06:10 the point because they're not Christians, but they just like, they're speaking out about this is not real, this never fix the problem. But there are thousands of detransitioners. There's so much regret out there. But they project this perfect social image. And one of the reasons is because they believe that people are born this way. There's nothing they can do about it. So their goal is to encourage people. I just want to help people be comfortable in this, even though they're kind of dying inside. And what really opened my eyes to that, there was this one girl who, well, she claims to have an intersex condition. I don't know if that's true. There are really rare genetic conditions. My coworker actually has one. Now, he has a condition called

Starting point is 00:06:53 Kleinfelters. It only affects men. It's not a intersex. sex is a wrong term. It really should be called, as Dr. Michelle Kirteloposit, a disorder of sex development. He has an extra X chromosome, but does only affect males. But so whatever condition this girl may have, regardless, she's had all the same surgeries. And she has said, you know, she feels transgender. But what was amazing, she had all these videos where she was talking about how amazing this was. She's so glad she transitioned. She has no regrets. The surgery was great. you know, on and on. She got on there one day and just had a really raw, honest moment. And she said, I just got on here to make a really positive video, but I just can't do it. I got to tell you

Starting point is 00:07:39 the truth about what's really going on. This has been horrible. And she talks about all the complications she's had. She had surgery after surgery. This is the girl that she'd had over 30 surgeries to correct this problem. And eventually she had, she says at the very end of the video, I wish I had never taken that first shot. And here's somebody who believe she's genetically predisposed to that. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. She never said what condition. And I've learned that a lot of trans people will tell you their intersex because they want justification for that. They want like a biological justification. Yeah. In fact, I said that to my dad one time that I believed I did. And he said, okay, we'll go get a genetic test. Well, that's okay. I don't need that to tell me that I am.

Starting point is 00:08:23 You know, I knew the truth. I knew that I was a girl. But regardless, with all those same surgery, and she talked about how this never made it real, the whole thing was about upkeeping this image that wasn't real. And all these surgeries never made it real. This never solved the problem. And so, but then she went back after that to make all these other positive videos. Eventually she took that video down.

Starting point is 00:08:44 I had downloaded it. I've got the original copy. But this is what I see so much in social media. They're not being honest because they want to project this certain image. to people of how good and positive this is because it's hate speech, you know, in this culture to say the truth. Yeah. And so in their eyes, love is just telling everybody how wonderful it is.

Starting point is 00:09:04 As a result, we have thousands of people following them. And so, and we see people just drifting over the years. And eventually you stop hearing from these. I've been on the social media pages of some of them that are huge influencers in this for transgender. and they went from making videos all the time to eventually they haven't made a video in months. And you're like, where are all these people? And what happened? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:09:30 And there's so much regret that they don't want to admit. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:09:58 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Going back into your story, you got the double mastectomy. You realized, okay, you're depressed. But still, you kept on going in that direction and thinking, yeah, but I'm just depressed because it's not real yet.

Starting point is 00:10:37 It will be real once I get a hysterectomy, get my ovaries removed. So how long after the double mastectomy did you get the hysterectomy? It would have been, I believe, three years. So it was 2012. And that's a big decision. Yeah, it was. And I remember at the moment having this hesitancy, knowing how permanent. that was. You know, I even had a moment thinking I should freeze my eggs. Not that that's a good,

Starting point is 00:11:06 you know, I wasn't a Christian at the time. Not that that would have been a good solution. I should have never done the surgery, but I have so much regret now. I go back to that moment. I would do anything to have that moment back. You know, and I don't know that the hormones over time can make you sterile anyway. I don't know if I would have ever had the opportunity, but I know now that God can heal and like could I have had my own child? I have so much regret about that moment. But I but I was determined I didn't want to ever have a period again because it was every time I did, which wasn't often. I'd only had one or two the whole time I lived as trans because the hormones affect that so much. And but it was like because I would feel that dysphoria, I would do

Starting point is 00:11:51 anything to make that dysphoria go away. It was so painful to be reminded that I was a woman And I didn't know why. I thought it was because I was not supposed to be a woman. I didn't understand there was so much pain there because of all my sin, because of ways I'd been sinned against, but ways I had sinned against others, ways I'd sown sin into my own heart. All the sexual, people don't understand what happens when we engage in sexual sin and we give our heart away and it's outside God's design and it begins to tear at the soul.

Starting point is 00:12:22 and in fact I really believe that sin outside of or sex outside of marriage really empties our love tank instead of filling us and completing us in a way that God intended inside that covenant marriage

Starting point is 00:12:37 and so you know I was just all this time I'm so empty I felt like I had no value as a woman I didn't understand God's good design and I was I was looking at God's design through the lens of all my pain brokenness. And so I realized that this was never going to be real, but I was never going to go back

Starting point is 00:12:57 to being female. There was so much pain there. Every time I thought about it, it was like I would rather live as a man. At least everyone else thinks I'm a man, even though I realized it wasn't going to be real. I was still not ever going to go back. And finally, over the years, though, the Lord had been working on me. And over the years, God had been drawing me and pursuing me. And in fact, he used talk radio quite a bit in my life. I'd been listening to Talk Radio for years. My partner, of all things, was one of the few people I'd ever met in the community that were conservative. And so we'd gotten into politics. I started listening to conservative talk radio living as trans for years. Is this a man or a woman? This was a man. He was a biological man. He was living as a woman.

Starting point is 00:13:41 So we were both trans. Oh, okay. And during this time, I know this is just an aside, but I was curious about this. Because you did say at one point that, like, when you became a you would really know how to treat a woman, but you've also said that you weren't really attracted to women. So were you with men who went after you transitioned exclusively, or did you try to also pursue women? Well, I went on one date with a girl in the very beginning, but she was a pretty masculine girl. And she said, well, I'll let you be the man this time. I was like, whoa, you don't get it. Like, I'm not ever going to be the woman.

Starting point is 00:14:17 So I cut that off. This man actually pursued me. I wanted a girlfriend. I was really not attracted to girls physically, but I used to tell people if they'd asked me about it, I cared a whole lot more about my gender than I cared about who I dated. I was kind of, I really wanted to be affirmed as a man. That was far more important to me at the time. But this man really pursued me. And it's funny, I look back.

Starting point is 00:14:41 God really used it because he was like a mirror to me. I could see the truth in him that I couldn't see himself. And he was a, he pursued me like a man would pursue a woman. Wow. You know, and he, you know, he was such a masculine man in so many ways, but he was, he was trying to live this female identity. I found out years later, his mom had died when he was seven years old. He was the oldest of four boys. He sort of assumed this mother role at a very young age, you know, and so he had his own story.

Starting point is 00:15:11 But he was, I look back and we, even at the time, I understood that he was more of the man and I was the woman. neither of us wanted to admit that, you know, or just the difference, there's so much difference in things like the difference in our strength, even though he was on estrogen and I was on testosterone, he was so much stronger than me, you know, and things like that. And he took a lot of those masculine roles, even though we were trying to reverse the role. And I was constantly reminded of the truth. So God really used that as kind of a mirror, but I had been listening to talk radio for years as a result. And over the years, they talked about God, little by little, just here and there. And in fact, Glenn Beck had a huge influence on my life just over the years hearing about God and begin to soften my heart a little.

Starting point is 00:16:01 And, you know, I really wanted, there was a part of me that wanted to believe it's true. Actually, I knew it was true, I'll say. But I didn't want God because I wanted to live my own life. I knew that this wasn't God's will, but I didn't believe that God was good. I knew it was true. But my mom and my dad and others had been praying for me. And over the years, God was drawing me little by little. And, you know, little steps in my life, like giving me dreams, putting other people in my life to speak the truth. I ended up at a job where my boss was a Christian. And one day my mom had asked me to make a website for her Bible study. and I began to read her lessons.

Starting point is 00:16:44 She had no idea I was going to read these lessons. It was hilarious because my mom had tried to fix me for 40 years. You know, and she finally had really surrendered me to the Lord. And she began to pursue the Lord. The Lord began to change her as a result. And this wasn't the only thing. So there were so many things God used. And I want to encourage anybody out there who's praying for somebody.

Starting point is 00:17:06 There were so many things that God used to influence me. I could list, you know, 30 different programs that had a profound impact on my life. But the reality was that God was reaching me in so many ways. He has endless resources. And so, but as I began to read the lessons just out of curiosity, and I was going to summarize the lesson for the website, I really wasn't interested. It was really so for the website. But things began to jump out at me.

Starting point is 00:17:34 God began to speak to me, and he began to change my heart. And he showed me how much he was changing my mother. And at that moment it was like, I knew the gospel was true. This is all real. I knew the Bible was true. And so I began to really desire to know the Lord. I began calling my mom and asking her questions. And she had been so transformed over the years.

Starting point is 00:17:54 And so I gave my heart to the Lord. And it was really this really sincere moment of, I repented of everything I could think of. And I really gave my heart to the Lord. But I thought I was going to be a man of God. I was very sincere but very misguided. But God was so gracious. He met me where I was at.

Starting point is 00:18:13 I didn't have to clean up myself for God. But he didn't leave me there. And he began to convict me. And he began to draw me out of that. And so many people have asked me, well, can you live as transgender and Christian? Well, as a Christian, if you have the Holy Spirit, you cannot live comfortably in that lifestyle. Because I was under so much conviction. I knew it was not God's will.

Starting point is 00:18:35 and God was drawing me away from that, drawing me out of that, teaching me to trust him. You know, and so I was, and over the next year and a half, really, God was just drawing my heart more and more. And I knew that God was asking me to leave that life sound. It was so painful. I really begged the Lord to take my life because I saw no way out. But God just began to draw me, and I finally knew that I had to obey God. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. And I honestly had no hope.

Starting point is 00:19:08 I thought there was no way I could ever, I felt like there was no hope of transformation. There was no hope that I could ever feel like a girl. I didn't think I'd ever look like a girl. I didn't think I'd want to be a girl. But over time, God began to do a miracle in me that I could have never even imagined. God began to heal me.

Starting point is 00:19:28 He began to change me and transform me. God began to work in my heart. And over the years, as I let go of the bitterness, as I begin to forgive, as others begin to forgive me, as I begin to reconcile with my mom, as I began to replace the lies with the truth. And like Psalm 107.20, it's one of my favorite life verses. It says, he sent his word to heal them and to deliver them from their destructions. And so God used his word to really transform me over the years. And I found myself little by little, you know, being okay, being a girl, and then being comfortable in girls' clothing. and then being comfortable, being around other girls, and seeing myself as a girl. And this was a progression over the years. And then one day, I looked around the room.

Starting point is 00:20:10 I was in this discipleship group with these girls, and I was like, they just see me as one of the girls. They don't see me as any different. And that was radical to me. I'd never thought that in my life that I was like the girls, that there wasn't some difference. I was not some other class of girl. You know, I wasn't just physically a girl, but different than the girls.

Starting point is 00:20:28 I was one of them. And so as God brought all this healing more and more, it was like, wow, God, this is so good. And I began to really love being a woman. And I actually begin to ask God to teach me about his design of male and female. And God over the years has taught me an incredible amount of how he's designed man and woman. There's over 6,500 biological differences between men and women were created totally differently for the same purpose to glorify God as male and his female to represent different. aspects of God's nature, but ultimately to display the glory of Christ and the bride and of the

Starting point is 00:21:05 reconciliation of God to man. And so as God has been teaching me all these things, he was preparing my heart for a husband. And so God brought an incredible man into my life just over two years ago. And it was funny, we met on the rainiest, wettest day of the year, which I didn't realize until recently. I was like, that's a sign of blessing and of cleansing. And it was like, after all my past and all these things. Everything was made new. And so I was just married just a little over a year ago, May 14th of last year. And so this has been an incredible journey. Now, God is using this man to bring further healing to me to help me understand the goodness of being female. And the more that I embrace femininity and embrace my God-given role as female, it brings out his masculinity. You know, so often,

Starting point is 00:21:58 women try to take control and we try to be the lead and we try to to rule over. But actually, as we allow men to lead, as we allow them to protect, not as a doormat, but as a way to respond, as a way of trusting God in that role, it is incredibly fulfilling. And it gives him the confidence to lead like he's, like he's been called to do. And it is, it has just been a huge, huge blessing for me. And your parents during this time, you said that they were praying for you. you talk about this before when you would talk to them, which I realize you had distanced yourself from them. What name did they call you? What pronouns did they use when you talked to anyone from home who were their friends, their Christian friends? How did they refer to you while you

Starting point is 00:22:57 were identifying as Jake? Well, as far as friends, I had pretty much cut everybody out of my life that didn't know or that knew I was trans. Anybody I could. I distance myself from everybody, even family really, except for my partner and my family were the only ones that knew. And my, but my parents never called me Jake. They never used the male pronouns. And I was really mad at the time. But the reality was, I really wasn't angry with them. I would have said I was.

Starting point is 00:23:25 And I told them how hateful they were being, you know, you just don't understand. You have to get over this. This is who I am. I'm never going to change. And so you can either call me Jake or, you know, I don't know what all I threatened. I'm sure at times I threatened to not talk to them or you just can't be in my life. But the reality was I knew they loved me. They had proven they loved me.

Starting point is 00:23:45 Even despite the problems with my mom, I knew she loved me. My mom had proven that over the years, even though I was angry and I was full of unforgiveness. But they had proven they loved me. But it was like a tethered a reality to me. It never let me forget who I was. Now, they didn't intentionally try to embarrass me. They struggled and struggled out in public like if we were to rest. with what to call me, but they'd call me honey or sweetie or whatever.

Starting point is 00:24:11 But there were times my mom would accidentally call me Laura. And I would be so mad, but at the same time, it was like, I know that that's the truth. And I remember it calling forth something so deep inside that was buried. And it was so painful, but at the same time, it was like bringing me back to reality. And when you became a Christian, before you realized that this meant that God was going to call you to live authentically as a female, Did you, you started going to church and you started trying to live as a Christian. How was that interaction with other Christians who knew or maybe they didn't know that you were actually a woman? Well, I actually didn't go back to church until I detransitioned.

Starting point is 00:24:53 And I don't know. I tried several times to go to church and I would, there was always an excuse. I'd wake up late or, you know, I would forget or whatever. There was always this plan to go to church and I wanted to. but there was so much fear of the way people would treat me or that they would, you know, I thought, can I hide this? Can I? And it was, I knew the truth.

Starting point is 00:25:19 But I wanted desperately to be around Christians, but I was so afraid. But I ended up going to this Bible study for a few weeks while my partner went to New Mexico to stay with his brother for about six weeks. And I went to this Bible study. And I remember being so hungry for Christian faith. fellowship. But I was scared to go to church. And I had a lot of bitterness toward the church. I

Starting point is 00:25:41 was angry at the church from when I was, things that had happened when I was growing up and never felt like I fit in at youth group and just, I didn't want church. But there was, at the same time, I was feeling this really longing to be with, be with the church. And I remember, I heard, I was listening to lots and lots of preachers and Bible study leaders online, lots of Christian podcasts. And I remember hearing a Bible study teacher say, I can tell how much you love the Lord by how much you love his bride. And I thought, oh, Lord, I don't love your bride. And I knew that was true.

Starting point is 00:26:15 And so I began to pray and ask the Lord to give me a love for his bride. And so it wasn't until I detransitioned that I went back to my parents' church, which I said I was never going to go back to. I said I would never move back to my hometown. I was never going to live with my parents. God had me do all of those things. And then I ended up working at the church. And the church became so much a part of my life. And so it's been an incredible healing work, an incredible restoration and redemption.

Starting point is 00:26:40 Yeah. I hear so many aspects of your story and the stories of other people who are referred to as detransitioners. And it's really amazing the similarities that you're not allowed to call out but are there. A couple of them that I can remember. I talked to a young woman named Sophie that she was able to transition when she was about 19 years old and went through a lot of the same process that you did. but there were two striking similarities that I noticed in your story that I've heard in other people's. One, a history of sexual abuse that led to some form of promiscuity and seeking male affirmation.

Starting point is 00:27:16 And when I talked to Sophie, she didn't want to talk specifically about that instance, but she did say that she had been a victim of sexual assault and that she now realizes she became a believer that transition for her was trying to dissociate from her body. that you she kind of, and I don't know if this is true for you, but she kind of blamed her body, her form, her femininity for what had happened to her. And she wanted so badly, you mentioned males having power. She wanted to have the power. She didn't want to be checked out in the grocery store. She didn't want to be on a run and some man whistle at her. She didn't want to feel like an object. And this thought that, well, if I become a man and I no longer have breasts, then I won't have to suffer. I won't be, you know, I won't be a victim of sexual assault again. It's like a form

Starting point is 00:28:05 of self-protection. I think there are very different reasons that men try to transition. But for women, this is a theme that I see over and over again. It's a hatred of the inherent sexuality that comes with their body and they're trying desperately to get away from that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right. I hear this in so many stories. And I think especially for girls, so many have been victims of sexual assault, but even some of the boys. But I will tell you, and in fact, years ago, the statistics were very, very high percentages of those that had been molested or raped or some kind of sexual, even like graphic sexual information or pornography is actually doing the same thing to these kids.

Starting point is 00:28:49 So even though I have so many now that will tell me, well, I was never molested, I was never raped. I was never assaulted. But almost always there is some history of pornography use. And it introduces ideas that shouldn't be there, especially when it's prepubescent, because you're comparing yourself to the images you're seeing. And it's like, well, I'll never be that. And it creates so much insecurity. And another very common thing I see with boys, boys that struggle with gender or sexuality issues almost always have an issue with their father. Either he's absent or emotionally absent, or sometimes that's just. just scary. Here's a very typical thing I've heard of boys who, their father's in the military.

Starting point is 00:29:30 And while dad's away, they're clinging to mom. Mom is very safe, very nurturing. And that's really what they know. And then dad comes home. And even if he's not mean, but he's just, he's kind of tough and more rough, things like that. Kind of the discipline giver. And yeah. Yeah. Even if he's meaning to be very loving, it's a very, he's not used, the boy's not used to that masculinity. especially if he has sisters or maybe the brothers aren't involved or sometimes boys have abusive brothers. You know, they're meaning to roughhouse and play. But I've heard so many young boys say that masculinity was scary. And so they cling to mom.

Starting point is 00:30:07 And the more they cling to mom, the more they begin to push away the masculine identity. And they begin to cut that off. So much of transgenderism is about cutting off who you really are and you begin to dissociate. Well, I begin to think about this and talk to the Lord about this. our gender, especially if, if there are over 6,500 biological differences between men and women, our sex chromosomes are in every single cell of the body, every single part of the body is designed differently. And in fact, it's the first thing declared over a child.

Starting point is 00:30:38 It's a boy or it's a girl. There's something so profound about whether we're male or female. I think so much more than we understand. Now, the culture has made it too important in one aspect, you know, because they're saying it's however you want an identity. But I think it's profoundly important to God in a different way. And I think as a church, we've done a disservice by pretending there's no difference between men and women. And it doesn't mean that one should be maligned or anything like that. Both glorify God in different ways. Both are equally valued. And in fact, Jesus, in that culture in Jesus' day, women were really put down. They had

Starting point is 00:31:18 very little role in society. They were used. They were abused. They often couldn't work. They had very little role outside the home, and men had much more prominence. He had Jesus went to women, like the woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery. And Mary Magdalene was the first one he appeared to. So I think women sometimes look at biblical womanhood as a bad thing, as something as some kind of curse. I used to think it was a curse to be a woman. God didn't love me as much as men, you know, so he made me a woman. But that wasn't true.

Starting point is 00:31:51 God highly values women. In fact, he compares his followers as his bride. You know, there's a profound love of women. And so I think that it's hugely important to the Lord. But I think that there is so much brokenness in cutting off that identity. And I really think as a church or as other viewers out there, it is so these kids desperately need same-sex role models, especially if the parents not involved were like in my case, I needed help connecting with my mom. I needed to see that I was like her,

Starting point is 00:32:30 that my mom loved me, that she was, and really to understand some of the problems she was going through, she was in so much pain. She used to go to pastors and just cry out to them and say, I'm trying so hard to live this Christian life. And she was so stressed out, she was burned out, she was just maxed out. In fact, she started having heart problems. She was under so much stress. And these pastors would say, Francine, you just need to try harder.

Starting point is 00:32:57 And she was given no help. And so now I have a profound respect for what my mom was going through. And I think in the church, we have so many people that are struggling that are just at the ropes end. But we have, I think, so often, we try to project this perfect image

Starting point is 00:33:14 and we don't realize how much people are hurting. The second similarity that I saw between your stories is that moment after the double mastectomy. That's exactly what I heard from Sophie and I've heard from many others. Look in the mirror and you say, hang on. I'm still not a man. For her, she was looking at her physical self. She was saying, hang on, I still have hips. I still have curves.

Starting point is 00:33:50 I'm still not as strong as my male friends. Hang on. Am I ever? Is this ever going to really be? Real. And yet we hear from a lot of activists who say, no, these surgeries, these procedures, even for minors, it is necessary to, and this is what they put on parents, especially, but also on the rest of us, that all of these things have to be allowed, even for minors, because it's preventing suicide. And so the unhappiness or depression that these people might feel, we're told,

Starting point is 00:34:24 is not because of their confusion or any past experiences, but it's because of people like you and me. It's because of Christianity. It's because of Republicans. It's because of these laws. And it's because you're not allowing them as easily as they would like to do what they want. Really, then they would be happy. If they were fully affirmed, it would really be real. Just speak if you can to that lie because a lot of people are extorted by that.

Starting point is 00:34:51 When you're told, if you don't affirm this and celebrate this and allow them, this, you are causing someone to kill themselves, that's a form of emotional and moral extortion that a lot of people can't resist, especially parents. Yeah, absolutely. And that is the real tragedy. And I'm on a part of a Reddit forum that has over 45,000 members now. And of course, I can't guarantee they're all detransitioners. They're supposed to be either detransitioners or those that are at least questioning. But there are thousands and thousands. I can go on there every day and see a post from a new detransitioner who was on there talking about how they were lied to. Why didn't anybody tell me the truth? Why did the doctors let me do? I remember one kid saying,

Starting point is 00:35:34 I was 14. Like, who lets a 14-year-old make this decision? And they had chest surgery. And so much regret, so much. And these kids are still suicidal. And there are people on there, I can't live with this. I can't live with what I've done to my body. I remember hearing a story of one girl who had a double mastectomy and then she went back to the doctor six months or a year later and said I've changed my mind I don't want this can you put them back on didn't realize that that was not just replaceable that you I mean you can like I have fake breast implants now but it's not the same it's not the same as just putting your breasts you can't you don't have the memory glance you sometimes don't have the nerves and the feeling and all of that yeah it's just it's not

Starting point is 00:36:15 the same you know and it's just it is so heartbreaking to see the reality and they've done And of course, there is so much misinformation on Google, and it can be really hard to find the truth. They've buried some of these studies, but there are studies out there that tell the truth. And there was one that was done in Sweden, which was either Sweden or Switzerland. Sweden. Sweden. I think it's the one I'm thinking of, yeah. Yeah, which is a very trans-affirming country, very liberal.

Starting point is 00:36:47 And they did this study, and they found that the suicide rates were about the same before, and after surgery, but that the suicide rates were much higher than the general population, but this did not resolve the problem. And now we're seeing thousands and thousands of detransitioners, but we're also seeing people who are not detransitioning because they don't really see the point, like I mentioned earlier, but are speaking out against this very boldly, and I don't know their real names. I would prefer to use their real birth names if I knew them, but the one that goes by Scott Nugent,

Starting point is 00:37:20 Renee Jackson, there are many others that are speaking so. boldly on this and warning people and they're being maligned by the media and being really being put down and being villainized really for speaking the truth and they're warning people. In fact, Renee Jackson has one that has a book called Don't Get on the Plain and talks about that moment of, you know, going on a plane for an out-of-town surgery to have the genital reassignment surgery, as I call it, and wishing he had never gotten on the plane. Yeah. So for the people who are listening to this, they have a loved one in their life who maybe is trying to live as the opposite sex. And they're being told over and over again by this person that they love by the world. You have to affirm. You have to use the pronouns. You have to go along with it. You have to celebrate or else you are not loving. Everyone wants to be loving. Everyone wants to be seen as empathetic, especially Christians. We're even given this kind of like counterfeit version of love that we have to. that just means affirmation and tolerance of everyone's sin.

Starting point is 00:38:26 But like what what's your advice? Like how should they approach this person if there's already a relationship? How do they really speak the truth in love? I think, well, one, a lot of prayer first, really listening to the Lord, but also start with a lot of questions. They want desperately to be heard. There's so much pain inside. and just asking them about their life or sometimes if they won't open up, I think one of the

Starting point is 00:38:55 ways I really learned is to open up first. I learned this with my own stepson and was really transparent about some of the things I'd been through and as I was transparent, he began to be transparent about himself. And so I've learned that with other people and sometimes that gives permission to people to know it's safe. And so, you know, even if you haven't had the same struggles, and I'm sure most of the people listening may not have the same struggle, but say, you know, I felt like this once, not even necessarily related to gender, whatever it might be, but actually I know I've been told by many, many, many parents, and I've seen many comments on YouTube. on if you go into like stories of detransitioners, there will always be comments about somebody that said, I felt like this a child as a child. I'm so glad I didn't grow up in this generation because I would

Starting point is 00:39:47 have been pushed down this transgender road. But as a result, I just grew out of it. I've heard many stories like that. So if you have a story like that, you can share or just what God has done in your life, but share about your struggles in some way that can relate to that person, even if it's not about gender, some way you didn't like yourself, some way you felt like you didn't fit in, some way that you were hurt by others. Everyone has that kind of story and how you've been helped, how you've overcome, but also asking them about their story. And really, this ultimately, I know maybe not every viewer out here is a Christian. For me, this is really about the gospel. The Lord has done such an incredible healing work in me, and I know that what they ultimately need is Jesus.

Starting point is 00:40:33 Yes, and amen. And they might not respond to that right away. But our obedience is not measured by people's response to our obedience. God measures our obedience by obedience. And so we do our best to prayerfully speak the truth and love. And I like to remind people, this is a comfort to me too. When I am tempted to compromise or to do what a lot of, you know, Christian, do is like let God off the hook and that we try to pretend that the Bible doesn't say what it really says about marriage or sexuality or gender and things like that in an attempt to seem more loving. But if God is love, 1 John 4-8, then we can't out-love him. We can't out-love him. And to actually think that we can out-love him by disagreeing with him is saying we are more loving than God. And we're not. So there's a lot of good news.

Starting point is 00:41:29 If God is love 1-John 4-8, he made us male and female in Genesis 1-12. 27, then the most loving thing we can do is to consistently and gently affirm that truth. Absolutely. Before we go, if you could just tell people where they can find you, and I know you wrote a book, so tell us a little bit about that and where they can buy it. Yeah, my book is called Transgender to Transform. And it's my testimony, but I also give some practical tips in there as well. I'm actually working on another book at the moment.

Starting point is 00:41:59 So keep your eyes peeled. You can go to my website and sign up for my website. and sign up for my newsletter at Transgender to transformed.com. My next book really is going to be a little bit of what I talked about, about God's incredible design of male and female and how he's wired us and designed us

Starting point is 00:42:15 to display his glory, why it's important. And then you can also contact me at the organization I work for is called Firststone Ministries. You can go to firststone.org and there's a contact page there. So please reach out, and I'd love to get in contact with you.

Starting point is 00:42:31 Well, thank you so much. really appreciate you coming on and taking that step to share your testimony. So thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Hey, Relata Bells and Relator Bros. If you could please leave us a five-star review wherever you listen to Relatable, that would mean so much to us and it really does help the show. Also, if you haven't subscribed to our YouTube channel, please do. Thanks. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news

Starting point is 00:43:29 of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction, and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 897 | A Detransitioner on the Lie of Trans ‘Joy’ | Guest: Laura Perry Smalts (Part Two)

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