Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 898 | Are Aliens Biblically Possible? | Guests: Jeremiah Roberts & Andrew Soncrant of 'Cultish'

Episode Date: October 30, 2023

Today we’re joined again by Jeremiah Roberts and Andrew Soncrant, hosts of the podcast "Cultish," this time to discuss aliens. With more and more speculation about aliens in the media, we ask if it's actually possible for aliens to exist from a biblical standpoint. We take a look at the creation order and whether other sentient beings can exist outside our planet. Then we explain why extraterrestrial practices always seem to be connected to cult practices and talk about the idea that aliens are just demons. And if alien encounters have happened for years now as some claim, why don't we have further evidence? Check out the Cultish website and Instagram! --- Timecodes: (00:50) Is it possible for aliens to exist? (09:21) Creation account (12:34) Alien contact "evidence" & what the Bible says (19:38) Nephilim (26:30) Are aliens just demons? (30:52) Why don't we have further evidence? (34:00) Does the government know something we don't know? (37:24) MKUltra (45:09) Demi Lovato (47:20) Why does this matter to Christians? --- Today's Sponsors: Birch Gold — protect your future with gold. Text 'ALLIE' to 989898 for a free, zero obligation info kit on diversifying and protecting your savings with gold. Pre-Born — will you help rescue babies' lives? Donate by calling #250 & say keyword 'BABY' or go to Preborn.com/ALLIE. Help us reach Blaze's goal of 70,000 ultrasounds in 2023! Jase Medical — get up to a year’s worth of many of your prescription medications delivered in advance. Go to JaseMedical.com today and use promo code “ALLIE”. EveryLife — the only premium baby brand that is unapologetically pro-life. EveryLife offers high-performing, supremely soft diapers and wipes that protect and celebrate every precious life. Head to EveryLife.com and use promo code ALLIE10 to get 10% of your first order today! --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 666 | Confronting the Occult, Demonic Symbolism & Witchcraft | Guests: Jeremiah Roberts & Andrew Soncrant (Cultish) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-666-confronting-the-occult-demonic-symbolism/id1359249098?i=1000577242915 Ep 697 | Revealing the Real Origins of Halloween | Guests: Jeremiah Roberts & Andrew Soncrant (Cultish) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-697-revealing-the-real-origins-of-halloween/id1359249098?i=1000583868843 Ep 865 | Hebrew Roots Movement & Its False Gospel | Guests: Jeremiah Roberts & Andrew Soncrant of 'Cultish' (Part One) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-865-hebrew-roots-movement-its-false-gospel-guests/id1359249098?i=1000626242390 Ep 880 | The Truth About Scientology | Guests: Jeremiah Roberts & Andrew Soncrant of 'Cultish' (Part One) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-880-the-truth-about-scientology-guests-jeremiah/id1359249098?i=1000629423154 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Are aliens real? And if so, how does this fit into biblical theology? Our guest today, Andrew Sondkrant and Jeremiah Roberts from the cultish podcast are going to answer these questions for us today. And many more are talking all about extraterrestrial life and alien.

encounters, what the government may know or not know. What is really going on here? There are a lot of questions and a lot of controversies about this, and we're going to do our best to wade into as many of them as possible. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Goode Ranchers. Go to Go to Ranchers.com. Use promo code All right, guys, welcome back. We're going to talk about aliens today. I have talked about aliens. I think one other time, but I didn't really get the answers that I was looking for. So I've got questions for y'all. I just want to know, do you think it is possible,

theologically, physically possible, for there to be extraterrestrial creatures out there on another planet? So the short answer is yes. The rest of the podcast will probably be some conversations about, how do we actually expound on them? There's a lot of different places to begin. So I'm going to, you know, there's a lot of different areas. And you think about the culture, you know, aliens, UFOs, alien abductions.

This is articulated in, you know, different movies. This is articulated both in pop culture. And now you're seeing it on regularly on, you know, shows like Tucker Carlson, when you at least around on Fox News. I mean, on all the different channels, you've seen even people like Marco Rubio and politicians are talking about, we need to have more transparency, what whistleblowers can come for without consequence. So what normally has been really kind of like a tinfoil X-Files, you only talk about this in Reddit chats. This has now been something that you see on the nightly news in conversation on a regular basis, where this is becoming very normative, where it was very taboo just a couple decades ago. And a lot of us were wondering, okay, well, where do we begin? Because there's so many different layers of storylines.

Do you begin with the government cover-ups of Roswell? Do you begin with any of the other UFO appearances? And so what I want to talk about actually, and this is something that may surprise you, I want to talk about Tom DeLong from Blink 182. Now, that may surprise you. What on earth does Tom DeLong from Blinket 182 have to do with UFOs and aliens?

Really, in a very simplistic terms, his story is that, you know, when you think about 20 years ago, when they are on tour when they hit the big times, is that, you know, you didn't have your phone, you didn't have Facebook, you didn't have social media, you really had a,

a lot of free time in between tour dates. And so he just became obsessed with studying up everything that he could. He was always fascinated from a very young age with a topic of UFOs and aliens. And really, at some point, he really, what ended up happening is that he always realized that when it comes to the government, I mean, of course, the United States government does not have the greatest history of always being transparent with their citizens. That's not just when it comes to the topic of UFOs and aliens. Look at 2020, right?

Two days of flatten the curve. And so when you tomd along, what ended up happening is he watched the film 13 days, which is about the Cuban missile crisis. And he really saw that in that a lot of what was told about the Cuban missile crisis, he was able to really understand the complexities of what the Kennedy administration and what was going on during those times to avoid really a potential nuclear holocaust. And so he had this idea, well, how I kind of work as a liaison, as a catalyst to talk to the government to say, hey, how can I help you guys to solve. this information because you're not the bad you don't have the best PR. How can I help you decipher this information to the public in a way that's digestible and palatable? And so he really had studied in-depth the different UFO abductions, UFO cover-ups, those sorts of things. And it was very, very interesting.

I remember hearing him back on the Joe Rogan experience. This is back in 2016 or 2017. And most people, when they heard that interview, thought he had completely lost his marbles. He was talking about how he's working, you know, in coercion with the government to move forward, to talk about all these different alien revelations and disclosures. A lot of people thought he was crazy. Well, it was actually confirmed he was doing, working alongside the government. When the whole WikiLeaks case came out back in the 2016 election, part of that WikiLeaks stump was Tom DeLong had a little cameo appearance,

that he actually was working alongside different government institutions. And so you can actually look this up online. He has an organization called To the Stars Academy. And in that, he's working alongside a bunch of different scientists, physicists, with people with very, very highly credentials to really explore this issue of UFOs. Or really the proper term people referring to now is unidentified aerial phenomena. So what you're seeing is that it's gone to a point where there's been multiple moments of collaboration. of different points all over the world of people who are seeing objects in the sky that are moving in such a way that really defies the laws of physics where they're moving very quickly they're stopping they're making turns which no aircraft of any government is able to that has any sort of craft that can articulate those sorts of movements another example would be somebody named commander david fraser uh frazier and he was a f-16 pilot and he had a

had an encounter off of, I believe off in California. And he captured on his, on his F-16, this, they call it a Tic-Tac. And this was moving in such a way that, again, to fight the laws of physics, if this had been an actual, actual spacecraft or something from another government, it would have been considered an act of war because it was in a restricted airspace. And so what you're really seeing is that there is something going on that is, like I said, irrefutable, incontrovertible. There is a phenomena in the sky. Multiple people have seen these. And where it comes, and we can definitely unravel this with questions that you have, Ali, is that as Christians, this is something that the world is taking very, very seriously.

When you actually look at the people involved in the Stars Academy, these are people who are highly accredited. They're not, they initially didn't get these credentials to go, hey, I'm going out there to talk about UFOs and this unidentified area of phenomena, but they see this as important to explain and to discuss. And the importance is that when people approach this subject, regardless of what worldview you have, what immediately comes into question is like, what is the nature of truth?

What is the nature of reality? If there truly are aliens or exoterrestials who live on another planet, what does that say if you are a Christian? If you believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh, that he became a man, that he die on the cross for our sins. How do aliens fit into that?

So I think as being a Christian, we look at all the developments, for example, with what Tom DeLong has done with Two of the Stars Academy, or if you look at all the other documentaries that have come out recently. There's a documentary, if you want to, we'll talk about in a little bit called a point of contact or moment of contact. It's what called one or the other. It was by someone named James Fox, who's recently on the Joe Rogan experience. He's talking about this event that took place in 1990. in Brazil of a from this wall town is called Virginia. Brazil sounds like Virginia,

but it's called Virginia, where there's multiple people 20 years later who all independently verify and really believe and insist that there is a spacecraft that crashed. There is these small, black-like, weird alien-looking creatures that are very similar to every other articulation,

even all other parts of the world, that work their way into this town, and they actually showed up at a small boarding school, which there were several women who at that time were 13 to 14 years old who had this encounter with these creatures, and they still all attest to it to this day. And so the question is when people look at these things, they immediately begin to question, okay, what is the nature of truth? What is the nature of reality? And what also ends up happening, which will unravel this, it always, always lead, UFO sightings, they always lead to, interest in extraterrestrials, which always leads to interest in extraterrestrial contact, and what you'll find out is that once you go down that rabbit hole, that extraterrestrial

contact comes by typically occult or new age practices, which God forbids, but almost always go there. They're inseparable from each other, and that's why important as Christians, we need to be able to engage this in a biblical way and not be afraid of it. Yeah. Andrew, what would you add to that? Yeah, I think it's important to define terms as well when we're talking about UAPs, UFOs, aliens. We've been using the term extraterrestrial, but there's also interdimensional. I believe that the Bible is very clear in the creation account. I believe that the creation account is literal.

It's a literal six days. Moses recounts it in Exodus 2011 by saying it was days. Exodus 31 as well. And what we notice in the creation account is that the earth is actually created before all of the sun, moon, and stars. and that's reality according to the creation account and that humans are the pinnacle of the creation. So in terms of Christians believing in extraterrestrial life, other places in the universe, I don't think there's anyone else made in the image of God. I think humans are that pinnacle of God's creation.

There could be organisms which have been found on different planets. I believe according to the evidence that we have shown in with these appearances of these beings, They tend more to lean towards interdimensional beings than they do actual extraterrestrial beings that have formed through evolutionary processes. One documentary as well that we can talk about is Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind with Dr. Stephen Greer. You can watch videos with him as well. I'm not sure if he's been on Joe Rogan. Has he been on Joe Rogan? Yes.

And some of their early days. So he also has experiences and Tom DeLong has experiences with Stephen Greer as well to where they get extraterrestrial content or I would say interdimensional. See, even me, I use the terms that we use all the time. Interdimensional being contact through forms of transcendental meditation. You can watch videos where orbs start appearing, shooting and darting around the sky. I mean, even the book of Ezekiel in the first chapter, it describes forms of angels like hot metal, burning coal, circles, dashing to and fro like lightning. So it would be no surprise to me that demons can take very similar forms that defy physics and laws of nature because they're not from this dimension essentially. it can take form and shape.

So that's my personal opinion in terms of being in a more biblical form or construct. I don't see extrasrestrial life made in the image of God being something that's somewhere else in the universe, according to the creation account. Tell me a little bit more about where this all does fall within creation, the fall, redemption, because the resources that I've seen have basically said, no, it's not possible for there to be, anything outside of demons, angels, and human beings. And, of course, animals and plants and things like that. So tell us a little bit more. So I'm going to explain where they kind of fall in line with all of this. Are you talking about whether or not there could actually be extraterrestrials

outside of Earth? Like whether or not that's possible. Is that what you're referring to? Something in between like animal and human or something other than human, those kind of creatures that could exist. Like, where does that fall in line with the creation order that we see in Genesis? Yeah. So a lot of, this is really the subject of like what actually are aliens, what categories fall to. A lot of Christians really differ on that. There are people who do, actually, I was just talking this morning with somebody who's about one of our previous guests where I was actually chabbing the thread saying we're going to be on here and kind of recouping, like, what are the things to talk about? And there are those who do, don't believe.

believe that's inconsistent to think that there could be someone that lived, there could be extraterrestrials that live on another planet, right? So what I think is the most, what I'm really focused on is what does the actual evidence show with these sorts of appearances of an identified aerial phenomena? And what you're seeing is that they move in such a way to where all the known, and a lot of physicists will talk about this too, where the way a lot of these spacecraft even move, they, to go from one galaxy to another. in the amount of time that it would take, there's no, they would burn up.

The elements aren't possible to sustain. If you've seen Top Gun Maverick, you've seen at the very beginning when Tom Cruise, we released episode in Scientology by this time, but there's a moment where he has this craft and he accelerates it to Mach 10, and eventually that blows up, right? So you look at the most,

one of the most evolved space like craft at that time made by humans. It disintegrates. So what you end up seeing is that there's not, there's elements that just don't add up with the ability for it to, for aliens to be going to have another civilization, another plan. That's my, that's my take on it. There's other Christians who may disagree with that. And so what I think when it comes to creation and how that fits in, I think it would fit into the heavenly hosts, fallen angels. And I think one of the main reasons is that whenever you start going down this rabbit trail, you look at almost anyone who is a person that's into UFOs and aliens,

the rabbit trail almost always goes down to alien contact, finding out about who we really are as people and what the form of spirituality is. And so when you look at a lot of these documented cases of actual alien contact, the information that they're getting about they're getting, when you look at the stuff like ancient aliens and a lot of these ideas of ancient civilizations, it's not about some sort of evolved technology or materials or like, how can we actually take this to improve this alien technology we can take to approve our everyday lives. It's always questions on spirituality.

It's almost immediately cut to the chase. Who is Jesus? Was Jesus really the son of God? And so really it's under what happens is that the underlying worldviews of Christianity and also of Jesus begin to be immediately questioned. So that would be a red flag when it comes to the UFO conversation. There's something about this that is insatiably and unequivably connected

to what God says about the world because when alien contact happens, there's a worldview that's advocated that's completely antithetical to the Christian worldview, specifically, in regards to the occultic practices. Yeah. Andrew, what do you think?

Yeah, just to echo on that, we just have to be careful in terms of the way that we're viewing information that we're receiving. So what we got to understand is what we have video of is also extremely blurry, right? We have no high-deaf images. Maybe there are some from the government that we haven't seen yet. But a lot of what we think we know about what we are seeing are things that we're extrapolating from videos and information that we don't really have fully. it's like we're looking through a lens kind of dimly, but what we do have is God's word to guide us with what we should be knowing. And I see nothing in scripture that tells me other than human beings being the pinnacle of God's creation that there's some other type of highly advanced,

highly evolved life form out there that is coming to Earth and Earth specifically for some reason. That's just things that we extrapolate from our own human imagination, things that we want to believe because there's two possibilities, right? When we hear and see UAPs. There's another life form out there from another advanced civilization that maybe for somehow through billions of years of unguided processes of evolution has a society that has now, for some reason, have purpose and meaning that is coming over here. It's like the Star Trek thing, right? Like if that's true, I'd say if that is true, then what's going on and what we're told in the Bible is in conflict with that. And I, and that it's hard for me to be able to grasp something of that

nature when I think the Bible speaks very clearly on the creation account. And the things that we need to know, and like Jerry is saying, the way you get in contact with these beings is through things that the Bible says is an abomination in Duteronomy 18, sorcery, transcendental meditation, trying to use specific processes to contact interdimensional life forms to gain knowledge. And God says, do not do that. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles,

faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Okay, what do you all think about the Nephilim in Genesis 6? Oh, boy. Because, okay, my last guest, they talked about this and, you know, their support for the idea that, you know, this is basically what aliens are. So I'm just, I honestly, I hadn't even heard that before. So sorry if this is a curveball, but I'm sure that you all have good thoughts on it. And you want to tackle that long? Because you did a whole statement on the book of Enoch as well, too.

Yeah. I haven't done as much research. There's differing beliefs on what the Nephilim are. I mean, we can read it right now in Genesis 6. I'll pull it up. So I have it right here. So it says now it happened when men began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them. That the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were good in appearance.

And they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. Then Yahweh said, my spirit shall not strive with man forever because he is indeed flesh nevertheless his day shall be 120 years the nephalim were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of god came into the daughters of men and they were born children to them these were the mighty men who were of old men of renown then you always saw that the evil of man was great on the earth and that every intent of the thoughts of its heart is only evil continually and then we understand from there that god uh wipes out the earth with the great flood so the assumptions there is that the sons of god could be fallen angels that procreated with humans and created giant offspring called the Nephilim. A lot of that also comes from sources like the book of Enoch as well.

That goes into a lot more detail of this account. Again, we don't really have many places in the Bible that talk about the Nephilim. This is one of them. There's other thoughts that the sons of God were a lineage of people that actually loved God. and they fell away and they made it with the daughters of men in that term and it created men of renown. But, you know, the position itself is hard for me at this point to state that for some reason angels fell from heaven and could mate with humans, but now they can't. Why not now? Why isn't that happening today?

Well, some people would say that it, okay, so some people would say that it is. Some people would say that these hybrid type people still exist today and that they have a lot of power. Now, there's a lot of steps that you have to take to get there, obviously. But, I mean, there are people who believe that we can't see them or recognize them necessarily as hybrids, but there are professing Christians, you know, who actually believe that they do still exist today. Yeah, I think it's important as Christians for us to think critically in such a way to where we have one. one little section of the Bible and it's hard to extract so many conclusions from this one thing, right? We will know when we die for sure, uncertainty. I think that will be revealed to us.

But I think Jerry has a really good description of how really grand conspiracies, the more grander they are, the more difficult it is for it to pull off because there's so many moving parts. Jerry, can you kind of describe it before? Yeah, well, a couple of levels. I'll say this. When it comes to Genesis 6, My take when it comes to biblical interpretation and dealing with these things is that if you're viewing something of anywhere in the Bible, that your approach should want you to check out other areas of the Bible. And there's still areas outside. The Bible that makes sense. Okay, this makes sense then of the outside worlds that they go on in the first century.

My main issue is with a lot of people who do go into Genesis 6, which is obviously Scripture and also the Book of Jude, which sort of mentions the Book of Enoch in Pact. passing, the people most of the time who get into those topics, they tend to stay in Genesis 6. They tend to stay there. And the longer you stay there, the stranger it gets. And then you start having to reinterpret everything in part of just two passages of the Bible. So I think that's an area where I sometimes have a lot of caution when it comes to how someone approaches the issue. I mean, Genesis 6 is there. It does talk about giants. There are some very interesting aspects of history, especially when you look into the Bigfoot, accountants of Bigfoot, which is a whole other conversation.

But usually when it comes to conspiracies, and this also has to do with UFOs, is that there is a principle called Occam's Razor, which basically states that the simplest solution is highly the most probable answer, because the more elaborate you make conspiracies, the higher probability there is for error. Because, yeah, while it is human nature for people to conspire, in secret, that shouldn't surprise us when that happens. And the book of John, it says no one comes to the light, lest their deeds be exposed.

People do conspire in secret, but there's also that acquisition for power does not like to be shared. So not only do you have people collaborating, you always have someone looking to take the other person out. So the more players you put into a conspiracy, the more complex it gets. And what makes the UFO conversation very interesting is that you have spacecraft, not just in the 1950s,

but you see a lot of even paintings from around the Renaissance of objects that are in the sky. A lot of times even when we've made posts, for example, of recent news headlines about, you know, there's some sort of alien revelation or people mistook a Chinese spy weather balloon as a UFO. Most people will say, well, this is just the Biden administration

doing a wag the dog, tactic, right? They're trying to distract from, you know, whatever, whatever, you know, nefarious things that they're doing, sending another $100 billion to Ukraine or what have you. But the reality is that this issue of these unidentified aerial phenomena, this goes back decades through multiple administrations, both Republicans and Democrats. You have somebody like Senator Harry Reid. He passed away not too long ago, but he was very, and he was actually LDS, which is the whole, very interesting to kind of take that into account, but he had a huge interest in the government relations in regards to being transparent about UFO disclosures, and he's somebody who is a prominent Democrat,

and then you have somebody like Marco Rubio, who is a very prominent Republican. He was a presidential candidate during the 2016 elections. He's been one of the most outspoken people when it comes to pushing for government transparency when it comes to UFO and revelations. And then you have, like said, the account in Brazil with this event in 1996. And this is another area, too, when it comes to the nature of aliens. And I might be jumping forward and maybe answering some of your questions here, too, Allie. A lot of it people will ask, well, what are aliens? Are they, are aliens just demons? And usually people tend to swing one way or the other, really depending on the worldview. So you have somebody, and this is somebody who is, he's not

on the board anymore, but he's somebody who's been very outspoken when it comes to the issues of UFOs and unidentified area phenomena, someone named Louis Elizondo, and he's somebody who I believe he's an atheist, he's not a religious person,

so he would view UFOs through strictly naturalistic materialism. So the only concern he has when it comes to this unidentified area phenomena is national security. He doesn't really have concerns about the spiritual implications. However, when you look at where UFOs end up, usually people will swing the exact opposite way, which would be, oh, UFOs are just demons, where in reality, I think the

most level-head approach, and you can definitely, you know, we can definitely unravel this, is that I believe they are interdimensional, and I think the best way to view this honestly is through the lens of the incarnation, where, you know, Christ was fully God, fully man. There is this, there's no duality between them. And in the same way how when Moses did miracles in Egypt, how he turned the stat, how he turned the rod into a snake, Pharaoh's magicians were able to emulate that and do the exact same thing. So I believe that there are these creatures do fall into the category of fallen angels. And in many ways, they can sort of articulate a counterfeit version, a counterfeit version of the

So, for example, when you look at this encounter in 1996 in Virginia, Brazil, you have multiple witnesses who saw some sort of spacecraft land with some sort of material that you could fold down, and it would automatically go back into its original form. It was some sort of very light-based metal that they couldn't articulate. You had people that had encounters with these aliens. You had somebody who was a young soldier when the Brazilian government got involved to cover this up, who attested to handle. one of these creatures and there's eyewitnesses say something smelled like sulfur and then one of the soldiers ended up passing away and dying in a very short

amount of time because whatever he handled ended up it was consequential to ending his life and so you really see when it comes to conspiracy something where it's not something you can just sort of wipe away the broad brush there is something really going on with these sorts of encounters that we can't ignore so that would be my

short and long-tailed answer. I'm wondering, like, why are these encounters so much like Bigfoot or like the Lochness monster where they're so slippery? And, like, why haven't we seen very clear depictions of this? I mean, I know I guess they're rare, but it does kind of strike me as similar to stories that we've heard about these, you know, these other creatures. Like, why don't we have further evidence than if they exist and so many people are talking about them? Yeah, I mean, if indeed these things are fallen angels and they are there to deceive people, I don't see why there would be a certain amount of evidence given for them to cause people to want to repent. You know, I think it's always going to be one of those situations where it's that fine line between what we can see and what we can't see.

Like there's even there's even that story in the Bible. I forget which prophet it is, but there's a man that was scared. and the prophet says, don't be scared. Look, there's a host of angels around us. And then the eyes are opened of the man and he sees the heavenly realm essentially where there's these angels and these demons. And there's essentially like a battle that is actually going to be happening. But they're protected right there by the heavenly host of God. So I think that these things are around us. It's just something that we're not able to see all of the time. For example, when Stephen is being martyred, it states that he looked up and he saw Jesus at the right hand of God standing.

standing where standing in heaven there's just something that's hard for us to grasp as humans living in this material reality that heaven in this realm is not necessarily something that is far off it's just not where we are if that makes

sense and the blurring of the lines between the realms like with fallen angels and taking on forms we have precedent of that in scripture we see that actually happening there's theophonies right where I would say the pre-incarnate Christ takes on flesh and even appears to Abraham. I'd say he is the one who also appeared to Gideon

in whom Gideon gave a sacrifice to. But also in Ezekiel, we see the forms of angels and heavenly beings that are descriptive, very descriptive to like modern UAPs and UFOs that are taking forms as molten glowing balls of fire that dash to and fro like lightning, things that we are seeing even to this day. But in terms of deception, that's what the enemy looks to do. I mean, there's a reason why Paul in Titus, actually one of his pastoral epistle, states this. He says, therefore, rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith, not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth. When we start dabbling in the forms of, well, who exactly are the Nephilim? And then going to the book of Enoch, I think that Paul is

referring to something like the book of Enoch here, Jewish myths that are turning people away from the truth. We have the ability to fall into a hole and stay there and not come out. And we shouldn't have that mindset. We don't have just Genesis 6. We have the whole council of God here to try to keep our relationship with God in check. And it's important to understand that. So when we're looking at, oh, go ahead. You can, you can add to that if you want to, Jeremiah. No, I'll let you go ahead. Well, I was just going to ask, like, we talked about the U.S. government and these different kinds of encounters. And if they really are, like fallen angels, do you think then like if you're looking at something like area 51 that the government knows

something that it's not telling us or is the government being what it is like do they even know like do they even have any real idea maybe they're not covering anything up because it's hard for me to understand how they would even discern anything that has spiritual implications i i don't know like what do you think is going on with government possible cover up and things like that yeah that's a That's a good question. In fact, one of the stories, you know, we're talking about, like, Tom DeLong and Two the Stars Academy and his involvement with being helped try. He thinks that, you know, he wants to help the government be more transparent through, transparent through all the films he wants to release and debut. In fact, that was, that's what he was doing. He, I think he took around a seven-year break from Blink 1182 because he wanted to work directly on these projects with the government to have helped them do these disclosures. So one of the reasons why he just rejoined with a band, why they did the tour and did the new album. him because he's pretty much done with that phase. And he's kind of back into the limelight of both being a musician, but I think he's also utilizing him being back with Blink as a way to really talk about

his belief in aliens. You see him really kind of sort of proselytizing in the sense, his belief about UFOs a lot of times from the stage, which happens a lot of times. But really one of the other stories, too, was somebody by the name of Bob Lazar. He was somebody who was, I believe it's an engineer who worked in Area 51. And he is very adamant, and he's had the same testimony for decades that he saw, he was designated to actually work on and analyze this alien spacecraft that the government had captured. And there is this element that was not from this earth called Element 115.

And his, it's a very fascinating story you could definitely get into. It's another just component in the UFO conversation. When it comes to the relationship with the state, you know, this is something that has been throughout multiple decades and multiple. generations that have dealt with us. You know, I think it's a totally different generation that dealt with Roswell than versus what we're dealing with now. I think, honestly, you know, the nature of government, the nature of state is that they always want to be seen as the people who are competent who know what they're doing, inspired their incompetence, which is why they usually typically don't admit faults, even with all the evidence right in front of them. I think they don't, for them to truly explain what this is, they in a sense have to explain their inability to be the ultimate arbiter of truth and reality and for them to be the final measure of all things. I don't think the UFO phenomena is something that they can truly articulate accurately and truthfully without giving up their position of power if that makes sense.

Andrew, would you, how would you, would you, how would you, how would you, how would you, how would you, how do you catch what I'm saying here? Yeah, yeah. Well, in, in, I'm thinking in terms of like area 51, uh, government technology, things that we don't know. I mean, we have historical precedence with MK Ultra that there's things that we're not told about, uh, the government testing things on their people. Uh, yeah, wait, just you got to pause. You just got to tell someone, you just got to tell people who may not know really quickly what in K ultra is. Yeah. Okay. So, mK. Ultra was, uh, mind control. Um, uh, uh, mind control. Um, uh, uh, mind control. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, uh, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind. Um, mind experiment that was done by the government. They actually were charged in a series of hearings. I forget what the hearings are called. We did a few episodes on it back when we actually did it with a crossover with Shiologians talking about Charles Manson and M.K. Ultra and the ties that are there through the book Chaos that was written. I forgot the guy who wrote it.

Jerry could clarify. Tom O'Neill. Yeah. Jerry's got such a good memory. I love him so much. Okay. So M.K. Ultra essentially was testing to develop a certain type of cocktail that could be used in war to create mind-controlled people, essentially. And what was going on is that they were luring people into these bunk houses and giving them

high qualities of drugs that would make their minds get a little bit loose. And they would, the government would then give people like prostitutes to sleep with these men and they would start giving up information. Oh, that's what they're called. They're trying to invent something called the Manchurian candidate. And that was the person that was like essentially a mind-controlled. United States operative. But the point is, is that the United States was doing this to our own citizens without anyone knowing. They were luring people back into these bunk houses. A lot of it was done in California where the FBI would have like a hole in the wall. You know what I mean? And they'd be watching through a hole in the wall. And these people were getting experimented on without even knowing. That actually happened.

Yes, this is real. It's called the Church Committee, by the way, the, that's right. This was 1975. when they were, you know, actually questioning the CIA. This is real. Like the CIA actually experimented on Americans, you know, basically black bailed them in a lot of cases. The Maturian candidate that they can totally control. All of that is real. And it goes back a long time. And there's probably, I mean, there has to be more that we don't know about.

So anyway, I know I kind of derailed us a little bit. But I just. No, no. Yeah. So in terms of technology, I mean, in 1964, the first. time it was flown, at least for us to know publicly, was in the SR 71, which can fly at speeds of Mach 3 plus at 85,000 feet. No one knew this type of technology even existed then. Imagine seeing something like that just, boom, going past you in the sky when you're even

working in the United States government. I mean, the way that our military works is compartmentalization. You know, if you don't have the classified confidentiality layers to get to the top, you're not going to know what's going on. So the things that we're going to see, if we don't know, we're going to extrapolate things. So with Area 51, do I think that they have extraterrestrial technology? I don't think they have extraterrestrial technology. I think the human imagination is such an awesome and amazing gift that God has given us, but we use it to search after other gods in order to think that we're not going to face

judgment one day. And I think the ideas of extraterrestrial life give people a reason to deny the God of the Bible and think that they won't face judgment when they die. the wages of sin is death and we will all have to give an account for our sins. There's a reason why we die. The universe is not a place that is essentially what it was before the fall. I think the whole world and the whole universe was impacted by the sin of man. But one day, it will be renewed by the power and blood of Jesus Christ through the power of the gospel like 1st Corinthians 15 states that when Jesus Christ returns, he has the keys of the kingdom over the father and death is

destroyed once for all like we've seen the book of revelation is well cast into the lake of fire with the devil. I think the whole universe will be renewed at that point. I think that's the implications and the weight of our sin to believe something else denies the fact that we are so culpable that as image of God bearers, we actually shed a broken image to God, not just to the world, but to the rest of the universe. It's cosmic trees as R. C. Sproles states. Yeah. And so one thing I also want to say too is that, of course, we would take, honestly, at this point, I don't get surprised by anything the government does from, honestly, any administration. It's like, how do you know, like, how do you know when a politician is lying? And pretty much my standards when they're flapping their gums. Like, that's, that's just, it's what I expect. And nothing really surprises me anymore. So honestly, any sort of official government account of what UFOs and aliens are, I'm going to probably take with a grain of salt. There's even people, if you look at the whole Bob Lazar story, who might even say that he was a disinformation agent, or maybe he was fed, uh, false. false information or maybe tricked into thinking that he saw a spacecraft or maybe this, he didn't really see this element, even though he really holds to his story and really genuinely

believes this. I think it's really, you look at the fruit. Like, where does all of this go? Right. So you have, you think about the Steven Spielberg movie, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I want to just quickly define terms. I actually pull this up just so people will know the different types of encounters.

And this is the collaborative evidence across multiple generations, across multiple governments across, you know, every different lines. We're not just talking about the current Biden administration trying to cover up a Chinese spy balloon. But really, this is the term. So when a person sees a UFO within 150 meters, that's considered an encounter of the first kind. And then when there's an encounter with a UFO in the sky or on the ground and leaves evidence behind such as scorched marks on the ground or incidents, that's of a second kind. then when there's a counter, when an encounter is with visible occupants inside the UFO, it's of a third kind. The fourth kind involves a person being taken and experimented on inside of an alien craft.

The fifth kind involves direct communication between aliens and humans. That's called a C.E5, close encounters of the fifth kind. So initially, the initial appearances are tentatively physical in nature. And because there are, there's so example, when you look at Commander David Fraser, had this Tick-Tac encounter when he was a pilot and saw this sort of spacecraft. It was really a heat sensor. He wasn't going out there to find a UFO. He just saw this.

And in fact, if you listen to his interview on the Joe Rogan experience, it's super fascinating. But eventually when you go further down the rabbit hole, you look at the fruit, and there might even be people in your audience, alley, maybe who had a background in the new age. A lot of them will attest that they had some sort of encounter. countered that was in close to counter specifically of the fourth and fifth kind, where they believe they were abducted and were being experimented on. Those, that came about directly by their involvement in the occult. And you know what actually stopped their encounter of being, for example,

experimented on in this alien spacecraft. They didn't know what to do, and so they're trying to cry out. They're not even Christians. They call out to the name of Jesus. Guess what happens? And this is independently verified out. There's scores of people who have made it. who have given testimonies about this, the torturing and the abduction stops.

And a lot of times that initial experience is the catalyst for them to actually come to Christ. And then what you end up having are called CE5 disclosures. And this is the case with everyone. So in Tom DeLong, when he talked about his whole progress of going down the UFO rabbit trail, he talks about being out in the desert with a group of people and having, going through a process to do a CE5 disclosure, then waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning in contact with little green men. He's more than likely it's working with someone by the name of Dr. Stephen Greer, who, if you've watched his documentary, he kind of goes into the initial aspects of government cover-up.

But then the second part of it, it looks like some sort of ancient druid ritual from like ancient times and some sort of old Viking movie where they're trying to do an occultic seance. And then you start seeing these lights and phenomena in the sky. So a lot of your audience, Sally, might be familiar with Demi Lovato. She has been very very very. very much making the rounds the last couple of years. She is almost sort of a pioneering catalyst with this whole pronoun craziness that we're all dealing with, whether you're binary and non-binary. Well, her catalyst to get into that was her interactions with Dr. Stephen Greer.

She got in contact with him with her. She is somebody who's made in the image of God who wants to understand who she is. And she had this really, I believe, a heart vacuum that only Jesus can fill. she went to find her meaning and truth behind these CE5 disclosures, and she shared this on her own social media, where she's out with Dr. Stephen Greer doing these occultic rituals and seances and seeing this phenomena in the sky as a direct result of these CE5 disclosures. And she actually even accredits a lot of her, you know,

her different gender identities to these initial CE5 disclosures, which goes back to what this really is, what ancient occultimate really is, as ancient paganism, which Paul talks about in Romans chapter one, and what happens when you engage in paganism? People worship the creation rather than the creator, and immediately there's a swapping between the roles of masculine and feminine. So what you actually see with Demi Lovato is that she, what is happening with all of her issues of gender identity and just her pronouns and binary, non-binary, that's all a byproduct of her initial pursuit to find her identity in these close encounters of the fifth kind with Dr. Stephen Greer.

So that's why as Christians, you know, this is something that we should be afraid of. The idea, in all honesty, there's a friend of mine who just lives here in Phoenix, sent me a message, and they actually, there's something that showed up, something in a phenomena in the sky, that is completely similar to a lot of other testimony of seeing some sort of unidentified aerial phenomena. So as a Christian, some people might see it like, oh, that's crazy. Well, I saw it and didn't shake me. Oh, I'm not surprised one bit. So I think, honestly, this whole topic is something that shouldn't be, I mean, you have to work through it.

Ultimately, it shouldn't be taboo because everything, all the creation, both invisible and invisible, they're created by Christ and for Christ. So we as Christians, we should have confidence that this whole discussion of aliens, demons, unidentified aerial phenomena, this exists in the, universe the Christ is upholding by the word of his powers. So that's why this is something as Christians we can't ignore, but something we want to face head on. And that actually is a perfect segue into my last question. And Andrew, I'll just let you answer us and Cherami. It kind of just did. But I was going to ask like, why does this matter for the Christian? Because I can see a lot of people listening to this and be like, well, that's just, it's just too much for me. It's kind of scary. It's kind of overwhelming, anxiety-inducing. I don't really want to think about this. Why do Christians, why should Christians,

Why should Christians really care about this? Why should this be a part of our theology and worldview that we should have a reasonable answer for? Absolutely, because 1st Peter 315 says, separate Christ as Lord is your heart and always be ready to have a reasonable defense for the hope that is within you. And this is one of the issues that we are being faced with today. We need to be able to have a defense, a reasonable defense for what we are seeing with this phenomenon. And we need to be able to stand on God's word and first have the Lord separated in our heart. like Paul says to pray that our speech be seasoned like salts. We can know how to answer any person in any situation.

And we need to be deep in the word of God in order to have that conversation with people because too many times that large Christians shrink back from popular culture. And we end up letting the secular world interpret the evidences through their own presuppositions and come up with conclusions that are antithetical to the worldview. So we need to be well educated. We need to be in God's word. And we need to be speaking out in the public sphere. That's why God commands us to.

Yeah. It's kind of like when the government doesn't tell you the whole truth or doesn't tell you when something is going on or the media is constantly lying to you. It's no surprise that conspiracy theories crop up or you get these false profits saying, well, this is what's going to happen. This is what COVID-19 really is. And in September, I foresaw all these things happening. Of course, people are seeking truth. They're seeking clarity. People want to know what is really going on behind the scenes, what's being told.

And so I think that's a really good point that Christians need to have an answer. for it. We need to have a solid answer for it. And not to say that we have all the answers. I don't think that we do. I certainly don't have all the answers and what is going on in all the different scenarios and news stories where they claim that aliens have been encountered. But I think the simple point that both of you made about Christ's authority, that he has the authority over all of it, that everything has been made for him and by him. And I just immediately thought of Matthew 2818, the Great Commission and Jesus came and said to them, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and

the Son and of the Holy Spirit. So having both the right and the responsibility because of Jesus's authority to make disciples, I think that is also like a comfort in all of this. Like there's a lot of mystery in the world. There's a lot of confusion. But we don't have to wonder, isn't that like the greatest thing? Like we don't have to wonder who is in charge. Our kids, when something happens, they like get lost in a waterpark or something like that. They want to know where their parent is. They might not have all of the answers about where they are, where they're going, or what's going on around them. As long as they can find mom and dad, they feel safe. And that just gives me a lot of comfort what both of you said, that Christ is Lord. He is the authority over all of this.

I don't have to have all the answers, but I do need to be as prepared as possible to give a reasonable and Christ-filled response. Absolutely. And if anyone wants to know about any of the for the content that we have. We've done multiple episodes on our podcast regarding the UFO and the alien phenomenon question. And in fact, by the time you drop this episode, we're going to have a little sort of mini series called Alien Revelations. It's going to be season one is the first time I've ever done something like this where we have eight to nine episodes. And it's actually narrated by our friend Colin Simul. Just real quickly, the Cliff Note story is that he messaged me right when Colta started a couple years ago. We talked on the phone. And he said, you have got to

pay attention to what's happening with Tom DeLong and all these people who are like you're going to see government like the whole UFO conversation showing up on the news on a regular basis and people are going to be starting bringing the question of spirituality we have to embrace this as Christians and I said okay well let's talk about it let's figure it out and sure enough a lot of what he initially talked to me about has come to fruition and in that are a lot of prominent figures like Joe Rogan and russell brand and Lex Friedman now bringing into world view issues as far as like what is this phenomenon, what is to say about ourselves, what is the nature of truth. So as Christians, we know that neutrality is a myth and we need to bring the light and the hope

of the gospel even into this conversation. So by a time you've actually dropped this series, we're actually going to have a series available on our podcast portfolio called Alien Revelations is around eight to nine episodes that goes into the whole history, even going back to the Renaissance era of like where, how does this fit in with this unidentified? area phenomenal. How does it fit in within a Christian worldview? So again, just reiterate, this is something that as Christians, we shouldn't find taboo. It's an area that honestly Christians have not tackled as good as we can. I mean, if you look back to the 1970s, the only prominent

figure I'm familiar with, who is even addressing flying saucers, which they revert to a lot as that time, was the late Dr. Walter Martin, who wrote Kingdom of the Cultes and Kingdom of the Yachthold. He's the only person I can really find from that area who publicly lectured about out what do we do with these types of encounters? What does this say about the nature of truth? What does this say about the Bible? So it's something that, whether it's this or any other topic, no matter how taboo or fringe it is, we need to be able to jump it and head on. When Paul talks about tearing down every idea, which is set aside against the knowledge of God, he doesn't pick and choose. He talks that he says every. So I think definitely this whole discussion definitely falls into that category. Yeah. Wow. This is so fascinating. I really do encourage people to check out y'all's resources on it. Once again, something. that we could talk about for a lot longer. Thank you guys so much for coming on and talking about this fun and kind of controversial subject. Absolutely, Allie. Always a pleasure. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe

is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives, and we don't offer false comfort, we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people

who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show

right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.