Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 901 | Does the Age of the Earth Matter? | Guest: Dr. Sean McDowell (Part Two)

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. How old is the earth? How do we reconcile science and faith? How do we know that Jesus really existed and was raised from the dead? And then how do we talk about all of these issues and all kinds of faith issues with our children in a way.

Starting point is 00:00:57 that they can understand and will really make an impact on their worldview. Dr. Sean McDowell is back with us today for part two of our two-part conversation, answering these questions for us. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. That's American Meat delivered. Use code Alley at checkout. That's good ranchers.com.

Starting point is 00:01:19 Code Alley. This is not something that I have really covered in depth on my podcast. And just to be honest, it's not really something that, I mean, Yes, of course. It's a lifelong Christian. I went to a Christian school and all of that. Thank the Lord for all of that. And so we've studied creation, the different theories about creation,

Starting point is 00:01:47 young earth, old earth, dinosaurs, all of those things. But personally in my adult life, I have not really dug that much into all of the different camps surrounding Genesis 1 through 3. So I know that's a huge question. And I'm not asking you to land on a particular conclusion or a particular view, but how do we even start kind of navigating as Christians? Okay, how old is the earth? Does it really matter?

Starting point is 00:02:13 Like, does it really matter when dinosaurs existed in all of that? You mentioned that people care about science. They don't want to abandon science for Christianity. So I guess it does matter. Like, we should be able to answer these questions. So where do we start? So this might be helpful. My father and I wrote a book together a few years ago called Evidence It Demands a Verdict.

Starting point is 00:02:32 And we added a chapter on Genesis. And basically one of things we said is there's certain essentials that Christians have to be committed to. Number one, that God is the creator. That is an essential belief for Christians. Issue number two is that the Bible is authoritative and it's God's word. And we have to be committed to interpret it properly. But how we reconcile scientific beliefs and faith, there always has been and there still are a range of views within the Christian fold. So I just want to make that distinction between things

Starting point is 00:03:10 that are essential. The Bible is God's word. God is the creator. If you give those up, I would argue you are outside of the Christian fold. But how we interpret the Bible, the means by which God created, these are important issues that play out a lot in our practical lives in the intersection of science and faith, but they're areas in which Christians can disagree. So when it comes to something like the age of the earth, there's a range of these. We actually walked in that chapter, 10 different options, and there's more than that. But one option would be a young earth perspective, which would say probably 10 to 12,000 years old is how old the earth is. And they would tend to take Genesis the days in Genesis 1 in a straightforward, literalistic 24-hour period. And of course,

Starting point is 00:04:00 that means that humans lived with dinosaurs and dinosaurs either died out in the floor. blood or they died subsequently in some, say, natural disasters or they just went extinct. That's a young earth position, has been held by some in the history of the church and many Christians today. But there's also a lot of Christians who hold what's called an old earth perspective, where they would adopt kind of what you might say is just kind of a modern scientific understanding of the age of the universe, maybe 13.8, 13.9 billion years old. the Earth may be 3.7 billion years old.

Starting point is 00:04:35 And they would say one of two things with Genesis. Either the days are like a thousand years to the Lord, their extended period of time, just like we might say today is the day of artificial intelligence. Or they would look at things like Genesis and say, it's not even trying to give us a specific scientific account. This is written 3,000 plus years ago, roughly. And it's not trying to tell us the specific, ways that God did create. Those are the two camps. Now, for me, I don't die, so to speak,

Starting point is 00:05:09 on one of the twos. I have those two perspectives. I have my own opinions and I have my own leanings, but this is an in-house Christian debate, and we've got to fall where the science leads, got to follow the best biblical exegesis. And what I believe is when we do the science well, unencumbered by a kind of naturalistic worldview, and we understand the theology, correct. the two will line up. So I would appeal to Christians, to follow facts, debate this. But we don't have time as a body of Christ to divide over this issue today. We have far more pressing issues at hand.

Starting point is 00:05:46 Yeah. Okay, that's good. I think that leads us to a good place and just emphasizes why it is important for us to be thoughtful about this and to at least have an answer. And that doesn't necessarily mean. So if you had like an unbeliever ask you, okay, well, how old is the earth? or what about these fossils or something. We don't have to have an exact answer

Starting point is 00:06:06 in order to be prepared to engage in that kind of conversation with someone who is an unbeliever and is demanding those answers, right? I totally agree. Here's what I would say. If somebody said, hey, how old do you think the earth is and they're not a Christian,

Starting point is 00:06:19 I'd say, I'm happy to give you my opinion, but I'm curious, of all the questions you can ask about the Christian faith, why is that one so pressing to you? I want to know where that question, comes from because oftentimes people have been told if they don't adopt a certain view of the age of the earth then they cannot be a Christian now that tends to be typically coming from certain young

Starting point is 00:06:44 earthers but I've heard that from old earthers as well so there I would want to just find out if somebody said yeah I I've been told that if you don't think the earth is 10,000 years old you can't be a Christian all I would want to do is just unpack that and say you know what that is one position and there's a lot of really smart young earthers who have put forward arguments for this position you should take seriously. But it's not the only position. And there's very smart scientists and biblical scholars who make a case for the old earth. So really, then I'm going to shift the question to either who is Jesus or is there evidence for a designer?

Starting point is 00:07:22 Bottom line, Allie, I want to make sure I die on the right hills. And I don't always do this. I'm not going to pretend that I do. but I want to keep the main thing, the main thing and shift it back to is there evidence for a designer in the universe? Who is Jesus? And then we can get to some of these important, but secondary issues in due time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:40 And let's talk about Jesus. You know, I didn't know that it was even a debate that Jesus existed. But I do see some atheists saying it is typically atheists. It's not typically people of other faiths saying Jesus didn't even exist. I didn't even know that that was a debated issue. Yes, of course, there's debate over whether he was God, not within Christianity, but outside of Christianity, people don't believe that he was God. But, I mean, is there a debate about the historicity of the existence of Jesus? Of course, when we say, is there a debate, we have to clarify what form we're talking about.

Starting point is 00:08:19 Because people, as you know, literally debate everything on the internet. Was there a Holocaust? Is the earth flat, et cetera? So sure, there's an internet debate about this. Is there a scholarly debate about this? I would say essentially no. Even scholars like Bart Erman, who's kind of an agnostic atheist, textual critic, obviously an expert in his lane, even though we differ out about a lot of stuff,

Starting point is 00:08:47 about 10 or 12 years ago, he wrote a book on the existence of Jesus. Now, he rejects the supernatural. He rejects the resurrection. But he says this idea that Jesus didn't exist is actually a modern myth. And I would agree with them that the reason is just we have too much evidence from such a range of different views. So whether it's the New Testament, I don't even start there assuming it's inspired. I'm just saying we have four biographies of Jesus. We have the Book of Acts.

Starting point is 00:09:16 We have Hebrews. We have the writings of Paul. These are multiple letters. Then we have early church fathers in the first century, the end of the first century, we have extra biblical writers such as Josephus, a Jew, Tacitus, a Roman. There is no good reason to debate that Jesus existed, even though a handful of scholars will push back on this. To give a little context, some people would say the same thing about evolution. They'd say it's so obvious that Darwinian or Neo-Darwinian evolution is true.

Starting point is 00:09:49 There's no debate about this. Well, you could probably count on one, maybe two hands as far as I'm aware, the number of scholars who doubt the existence of Jesus. There are hundreds of scholars with PhDs in science who don't necessarily believe intelligent design, but who doubt the mechanism of neo-Darwinism, or at least doubt that we can explain naturalistically the origin of life and the complexity and diversity of species. So there's far more debate about questions of evolution than there are about the existence of Jesus, even though the majority of scientists,

Starting point is 00:10:27 as far as I'm aware, would embrace some kind of evolutionary model. And then how do we get in the conversation from the existence of Jesus to, yes, Jesus really said that he was God and we know that he was God? Well, there's a few ways to go about this. One is to just look at the evidence for the Gospels themselves. Are these books reliable and are they historical? Now, of course, we'd have to look at the manuscript evidence of how they were copied over time, how early these manuscripts are, how many claimed mistakes there are. And I think when you compare the manuscript authority of the New Testament with other ancient books, even many classicists would say this book was very, very carefully preserved.

Starting point is 00:11:21 We could look at some of the internal evidence for the gospels, things like the gospel writers, including embarrassing details, which are not the kind of things that you would invent. which tells us their concern with truth. We can start to look at the archaeological records, some of the people mentioned within the Gospels. Even I think it's in Luke chapter 3, Lysanius is mentioned, this incidental name, and we found an inscription matching up, likely being that Lysanius.

Starting point is 00:11:52 So we just would have to historically look at the Gospels and ask, are these reliable historical documents? And I think a powerful case can be made so. And then within the new test, we have to say, okay, who did Jesus understand himself to be? Who did the other followers of Jesus understand himself to be? And I think you can even go to the earliest gospel of Mark. The vast majority of scholars will make the case that Mark was the first gospel,

Starting point is 00:12:20 and then Matthew and Luke, the other synoptics, used Mark as a source. Now, most would concede that John written the latest clearly lays out that Jesus claimed to be God. But if you look at the Gospel of Mark, just at the beginning, it's really interesting. There's some clues that Jesus claimed to have divine authority. For example, it starts with a prophecy, a reference from Isaiah about the coming of a one who will proclaim the Lord. And then it references to John the Baptist, proclaiming the coming of Jesus. Why? Because Jesus is the Lord of the Old Testament.

Starting point is 00:12:55 You shift to Mark chapter 2. Jesus heals somebody who had sinned against God. Why? Because Jesus has divine authority within himself. You shift further. Jesus has the authority to override the Sabbath, which was instituted by God himself. Why? Because Jesus is God in human flesh.

Starting point is 00:13:19 And of course, in the Gospel of Mark, it really culminates where you have Jesus on the cross and even the Roman centurion says, surely he's the son of God. And that's why in Mark chapter 14, Jesus asked, you know, are you the Messiah, the coming one? And Jesus cites Daniel chapter 7, which is a reference of this divine figure coming on the clouds of heaven. It comes full circle at the end of Mark. So to answer question, I'm happy to look at the evidence that the New Testament and the Gospels in particular are reliable. And then we just look at the claims that Jesus made. And I think it's very clear that he understood himself to be God in human flesh.

Starting point is 00:14:01 And as followers like Paul and Peter and the book of Hebrews understood that as well. And then of course, a central distinction is his resurrection from the dead. Because there were other men around Jesus' time claiming to be some kind of Messiah, which some people point out as, we'll see, Jesus was just one. He was just one of the many who claimed to be a Messiah. and then he was killed for the trouble that he caused in Rome. I've heard that line of reasoning often. But we believe that Jesus was raised from the dead.

Starting point is 00:14:34 So what evidence do we have for that? I think you're right to point to it. This is the ultimate miracle. In John chapter 2, the religious leaders asked Jesus for a sign. And what does he say? He says, I'm going to destroy this temple and three days raise it again. And they didn't understand that he meant the temple of his body. He thought they meant the temple in Jerusalem.

Starting point is 00:14:54 Later, his apostles look back and realize, oh, my goodness, he was talking about his resurrection, which, of course, he also prophesied three times in Mark 8, 9, and 10. So what's the evidence? Number one, there's no doubt Jesus lived. Second, we actually have very good evidence that Jesus was crucified. We have the biblical account. We have the extra biblical account, early church fathers, Josephus and Tacitus. And also, if they were inventing a Messiah, they would not invent one that would,

Starting point is 00:15:22 was shamefully crucified. So we know Jesus lived. He died by crucifixion. We have very good reason. Gary Habermas right now, probably the leading resurrection scholar in the world is working on a four volume, I think, 5,000 word defense of the resurrection. And as far as I'm aware, he's advanced 21 arguments for the empty tomb. Just one of them that's interesting is that the tomb is discovered by women. Now, why does that matter? In that society at that time, a woman's testimony was not considered as significant as a man's. So if they're inventing a story about an empty tomb, trying to appeal to their audience, why would all four gospels report that the tomb was discovered empty by women?

Starting point is 00:16:06 That's one argument. And then we have to shift to the appearances. Do we have reason to believe that Jesus appeared to people? We have multiple accounts, again, in the Gospels, in the letters of Paul. And what's amazing is the vast majority of scholars. agree that the disciples had appearances, had experiences that they believed were of the risen Jesus. So Jesus lived, died, we have evidence the tomb is empty, and all these claims that Jesus appeared to him, that's a pretty solid case. But then people will come up with what are called naturalistic

Starting point is 00:16:43 hypotheses, things like maybe the apostles had hallucinations. Well, one problem is, is that hallucinations, there's minimal evidence that they could ever be group hallucinations, like dreams, their individual experiences. So there is no other alternative that can account for all the facts like the resurrection. I think what it boils back to, and Gary Habermas has said this too, is really just a resistance to miracles, a commitment to naturalism that says even if the evidence is pointing this direction, we know there has to be some other explanation because people don't write. from the grave. But I think for those who are open to following the evidence where it leads,

Starting point is 00:17:26 a compelling case can be made that Jesus, in fact, rose on the third day. Yes, and there has to be, I mean, even just looking from a practical perspective, there has to be some explanation for why Jesus stuck. If there were all these men who claimed to be a Messiah, and they all ended up dying, they all kind of taught things and said that they were the fulfillment of prophecies, why is it Jesus that we base our entire timeline, all of history off of. Why has it been Jesus who has started this movement that has spread like wildfire and has forged civilizations and has changed nations? Like, why is it Jesus who stuck, if not for the resurrection, if not for the evidence

Starting point is 00:18:08 that we have for him? I think that's just, I don't know, that's a question that I go back to because we all have times where we're wrestling with, well, what if this? Did this really happen? I just think about the centrality of Jesus and the inescapable, the inescapability maybe of Jesus to even the non-believer. He is literally what you are basing time off of, what you are basing your calendar off of, whether you believe in him or not. I think that's a great question. Now, some skeptics might push back and say, well, the reason Jesus took is because we had the Pax Romana at this.

Starting point is 00:18:48 time. And now we had roads. Now we had the ability to travel and spread a message. We had written text. So it's this coincidence of all these factors that come together. And I would say those factors are necessary, but not sufficient to explain, like you said, the explosion of the of the church. One reason is there's a lot of other people claiming to be messiahs. There were a lot of other religions at that time. So why this one? And then the other piece is you also have the apostles willing to suffer and willing to die for their beliefs that they had seen the risen Jesus. Why put yourself in harm's way if you don't minimally have the belief that Jesus has risen from the grave? And you know, Allie, to kind of bring this full circle to point that's made

Starting point is 00:19:40 early. It's really interesting. We hear today that people, people say the Christian message is bigoted and it's harmful to women. In the early church, it was largely led by masses of women who embraced the Christian faith. I was just preaching on Acts 17 recently, how Paul goes to Berea, Thessalonica, and Athens. And in all three places, it tells us that some women believed. Why? Because the message of Jesus was liberating. It said that women are not just objects. They are made in the image of God and should be treated with dignity, that you are to honor a promise in marriage, that there is no distinction before Christ between slave and free, Greek and Jew, male and female. Children are valuable. So I think it's not only the evidence of for Christianity. I think it's the power of the message of Christianity that led to through the Holy Spirit, of course, that led to turning the world upside down against all odds that now J.P.

Starting point is 00:20:50 Morrill and somebody teach you the Bible. He said, we call our dogs Caesar, but we call our kids Peter, Paul, and James. Wow. Yeah, that's such a good point. I don't know if you've read the book by O.M. Backy. I think it's called when children became people. If that's not the title of it, that's the concept of it. And basically he talks about, I just think this is so fascinating and exactly what you're saying, how when Christianity burst onto the scene, it revolutionized over time how society saw women and children.

Starting point is 00:21:22 I mean, the adult free male was really the nucleus of society, really not only seen as the person kind of with rights, but really, the person with the only capability, the full capability to be a real person that had the logos, the ability to reason and to debate and to really do anything that was productive or contributed to society. And of course, slaves and the elderly and the disabled and women and children were seen as truly kind of on the marginalized. And particularly children, because there was such a high mortality rate for children. They were very often used for manual labor. They were very often disregarded or they were used as sexual objects.

Starting point is 00:22:11 When Christianity came along and said, actually, these vulnerable people are made in the image of God. They have equal worth and equal dignity. And actually, the most vulnerable need to be cared for even more. They deserve even more of our honor, more of our time, more of our resources rather than less, that that completely changed how the world saw these different classes of people. Of course, that's not to say that it's perfect today, that everything has been changed

Starting point is 00:22:38 and everyone sees people as made in the image of God. But wow, the impact that Christianity that the gospel had, that Jesus had on how we see vulnerable people, people other than the adult free male, it's totally incalculable. And I think that that's one thing that we take for granted today, all of these things that we attribute to secular movements or just a tribute to, I don't know, nebulous progress that I guess some believe is just inevitable. It really goes back to the gospel. It goes back to the person of Jesus and who he is and what he taught, right?

Starting point is 00:23:14 You know, Wednesday, Nat, I was speaking at a local church, and then we did a live Q&A, and it was mostly Christians, but there were some atheists and skeptics there. And a lady asked a question. She just said, I've been coming to church, and I want to believe. that every time I get closer to believe, I just see Christians who are hypocrites and they fail to live out what they say. And I know you feel this way too, but I just sat there and like my heart just aches because as much as we want to say, well, they're just not living the message of Jesus. If you know a Christian, that person represents Jesus to you. And so the idea that Christians have

Starting point is 00:23:52 fallen short is well known in the world today, where there's different sexual scandals, where there's church failures. We as a church need to plead guilty that we have to do better. But that's only a piece of the story. I think we also should be proud as Christians of the legacy of human rights distinctly brought on by people motivated with a Christian worldview. There has never been a greater force for good in the history of the world than the Christian message when practiced by believers loving their neighbors. And this goes back to the first century.

Starting point is 00:24:33 Why does James say this is good and true religion? You care for widows and orphans. In the culture at time, widows and orphans could be discarded because they had no instrumental value for society. The Romans could take their children. They didn't want them and go put them on a hill to just die. Christians came along and said, wait a minute, widows and orphans are. made in the image of God, they have value. So it's Christians who started hospitals, Christians who started orphanages, Christians who led the anti-slavery movement, even though certainly there were some Christians who tried to use the Bible to defend their power. Unfortunately, William Wilberforce motivated by his Christian commitments. Dietrich Bonhoeffer resisting the Nazis,

Starting point is 00:25:23 laying his life down because of his Christian. commitments. Martin Luther King Jr. unashamedly cited the prophets and Amos of letting justice roll down. So Christians have fallen short, but it is the Christian message that has positively turned the world upside down when we just love our neighbors. And sometimes I get tired of our society pushing back so much and trying to shame Christians to not be proud of that. I think we should recognize the fault, but be proud of the good. good that Christianity has brought to the world as well and try to practice it better in our lives today.

Starting point is 00:26:02 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:26:22 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. I think there's a lot of questions today about raising kids and what seems like such a post-truth, crazy environment. It's a scary world to be in when you were even rejecting such basic biological definitions as male and female. And it seems like it's encroaching more and more.

Starting point is 00:27:09 It's more and more difficult to kind of protect our kids from some of these lies and to prepare them at such a young age. But something that I take comfort in is look like Christians have been battling against the culture, have been battling against wickedness, have been battling against the powers that be since its inception. And what Christians did at the very beginning, we are still called to today. We are still called to abide by Jesus's teachings.

Starting point is 00:27:37 We are still called to not fear. We are still called to be a refuge for the vulnerable of clarity and of courage in an age of chaos and cowardice. Yes, it might look different than it did 10 years ago or a thousand years ago, but the role and the responsibility is the same. And Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And he equips every generation exactly how he sees fit. Amen to that. Since you mentioned parents, maybe I could give a little bit of encouragement to parents that are listening.

Starting point is 00:28:06 I've been studying the data on faith transmission going back to the early 70s. This is work by like Christian Smith, for example, at the University of Notre Dame. And the studies show consistently, and it's true today, that the number one influence in the life of a young person in their worldview is not Netflix. It's not the educational system. It's not some political figure. It's not TikTok. It's mom and it's dad. We have the primary power. Now, there is no formula for passing on your faith, so to speak, because people have free will. But if there were to be a formula, here's the three things, as simply as I can put it, that parents ought to do. Number one, you have to live a life that's authentic, not perfect. You have to model what it means to really follow Jesus. If we don't live it out, then it doesn't matter what we say. So number one, model it.

Starting point is 00:29:04 Number two, build relationships with your kids. Build intimate, close relationships with your kids. The largest secular study I'm aware of of a faith transmission says the number one factor that prevents a kid from abandoning their faith is a, quote, warm relationship with the father. And I could back that up if we wanted to get into detail on it. But number one, model it. Number two, build relationships. That is mom and that is dad.

Starting point is 00:29:33 Number three, have meaningful spiritual conversations with our kids. Spiritual conversation. Of course, we see this in Deuteronomy 6. Love Lord God, you heart, so am I in strength, and talk about these things with the kids when they wake up, when they lie down when you go along the way. So model it, build relationships with your kids, and seek intentional spiritual conversations.

Starting point is 00:29:54 Now, what might this look like? One quick story. I think it was five years ago. My son, who's now 19, when he was 14, wanted to see that movie Bohemian Rhapsody by the rock band Queen. And I had some concerns with a messaging up. I thought, you know what, he's 14? It's PG-13. I said, I'll take you in a buddy and spend $100 on tickets and popcorn.

Starting point is 00:30:15 If, when we're done, I said this to my son, if you'll just talk with me about it. I want to know what you think. He goes, sure, Dad. So I took him and his friend of the movie. We'd come back, sit down at the dinner table and probably 30 minutes, Allie. I just said, hey, what did you think about the movie? Did you enjoy it? What was your favorite scene?

Starting point is 00:30:30 I said, as Christians, is there anything in this movie that we can agree with and we can celebrate? I said, is there anything in this movie that gives you pause as a Christian? Were there any times you felt this movie was preaching at you? And it was just a meaningful conversation amidst the relationship. Those opportunities are there if we as parents will intentionally try to seek him out with our kids. That's really good. That's a good encouragement because our kids are just, they're so curious from the youngest

Starting point is 00:31:04 ages. And I've just, I've been so, I mean, blessed by, but just pleasantly surprised by also how much young kids can understand, not fully, of course, but how much they memorize, how much they soak up, how much they repeat what you say, whether you like it or not. And I would say also just for parents, Like challenge yourself and challenge your kids to hide God's word in your heart, you will be surprised by how much I think they want to and are also able to do that. I think sometimes we underestimate how much our kids want to know and need to know.

Starting point is 00:31:40 And I think that's a comfort too, that God has written eternity on their hearts as well. And they are seeking after those things. Amen. I think we have to talk with our kids early. Just yesterday at breakfast, Allie. I was having breakfast with my 10-year-old son. And I said, hey, buddy, I've been reading the book of Colossians. And I got in chapter one where it talks about how Jesus made everything visible and invisible.

Starting point is 00:32:05 So I said to my son, I said, do you think, what things can you think of that are real that are invisible? Are numbers real? Are angels real? I said, what about moral values? Keep in mind, my son is 10. Yeah. And he didn't fully get it. But I'm engaged in kind of a question of metaphysics because in our culture today, we tend to think that only physical things you can touch, taste, and see are real.

Starting point is 00:32:32 I said, is history real? I said, because God is not physical? Is God real? So then last night, I was like, hey, did you think of anything else that exists that's invisible? Now, it's not like my son sits there and goes, dad, let's talk metaphysics. But I just look for these opportunities. Most of our conversations are about the basketball playoffs or superheroes, but I just look for these opportunities to engage them in conversation young. In fact, two years ago, when we were driving in the car, my son, because when you're the, your youngest kid, whoever this is, will experience and hear things way earlier than your oldest kid.

Starting point is 00:33:12 It's just the way it works and they have older siblings. So we're driving the car, my eight-year-old son goes, Dad, what's abortion? Now, a lot of parents would change the subject quickly. And I thought in my mind, you know what, just like I said at the beginning of this conversation, the way we engage Gen Z and others is an opportunity. So I thought here's an opportunity to talk with my son. Now, I've got to make it age appropriate. But I said, great question, buddy.

Starting point is 00:33:39 Well, why do you ask first? And then second, I said, sometimes women will get pregnant and decide they don't want to keep the baby. Why would a woman do that? I started to walk them through it. He goes, well, how does somebody do an abortion? Now I'm thinking, okay, how do I explain this to an eight-year-old? But the bottom line is these conversations start a lot earlier than we think. Kids are curious and they're not going to you and me primarily with their questions. They're going to TikTok. They're going to Google. Now they're going to chat GPT. I want to build a relationship with my kids. So they feel safe and eager and willing to talk with me. That's what I try

Starting point is 00:34:19 to do. Yes. And one thing that we can do is equip ourselves, make sure that we know God's word, and we don't have to be perfect in knowing the answers to all the questions. But it is good for us to explore those questions. And that's what you help people do. So is the best place for people to find you your website, because you have authored or co-authored over 20 books. You've got a podcast thinking biblically. Where else can people find resources that you've provided? So my website, Sean McDowell.org, is kind of the hub that links to the podcast, which is a weekly podcast in which my co-host and I at Biola, look at some worldview cultural issue through a biblical lens. Links to my YouTube channel, which is really focused on worldview and apologetics.

Starting point is 00:35:06 I'm on Twitter, Instagram, even have a TikTok. My son two years ago, he goes, dad, if you want to reach my generation, you got to get on TikTok. So I post on TikTok, have a blog. I have a blog. but probably Sean McDowell.org is the hub that would link to the different avenues that I'm trying to influence through. Perfect. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. This was very edifying and educating for me. I know it will be too for my audience. I encourage people to go to your website and find all the stuff that you provided over the years.

Starting point is 00:35:36 It's really, really helpful. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on, Allie. Keep up to good work. Hey, Relata Bells and Relata Bros. If you could please leave us a five-star review, wherever you listen to Relatable, that would mean so much to us. And it really does help the show. Also, if you haven't subscribed to our YouTube channel, please deal. Thanks. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

Starting point is 00:36:15 They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles. faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 901 | Does the Age of the Earth Matter? | Guest: Dr. Sean McDowell (Part Two)

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