Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 918 | My Response to the 'DINK' Trend

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Dinks are taking over TikTok talking about the joys of childlessness. And then on the other end of that, we've got men discussing picking the mother of their children out of a catalog. Yikes. And also the director of the.

Starting point is 00:00:57 The National Women's Law Center says she can't know what a woman is because she's not a scientist. Very sad. Also, before we get started, I wanted to remind you all that we've got amazing mugs, made in the USA mugs for all of my related gals, related bells, relator bros out there. We've got the do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God mugs. And they are also in Relata bro friendly colors. And then we've also got the, we've got the razor respectful ruckus mugs that I think are super cute. Really high quality.

Starting point is 00:01:35 I love these mugs. We went through a long process of trying to find the right mugs. And we picked these out for you because they're really high quality and made in the USA, which was important. So this would be a great stocking stuffer, a great gift for the relatable fan in your life. Also, if you've got merch ideas, things that y'all really want, make sure that you send them to my way, send them my way. You can leave a comment on YouTube or you can message me on Instagram and I will take that under advisement. All right. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use code Allie for a discount. That's good ranchers.com code Alley.

Starting point is 00:02:10 Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a great week so far. All right. We've got quite a few things to talk about today. And I think we'll just go ahead and get right into it. The first one is this video that's been going around, I think originally on TikTok, but I'm a grown-up, so I see these things on Instagram and Twitter weeks later. And it is a play on this trend where you can explain it better since you actually have a TikTok if I'm not explaining it correctly. But people say things like, we're blank, like we're moms or we're boy moms or we're tech employees. And then they say some characteristic of themselves.

Starting point is 00:03:06 Like, we're moms. We're up every night until three. We're moms. We find poop on our cardigan at random times of the day. We're moms. Blah, blah, blah. That kind of thing. Yeah, that's real.

Starting point is 00:03:18 Anyway. And so now there is one that's going viral that is saying we are dinks. We're dinks. And if you don't know what that means, it's double income, no kids. I have known what that acronym is for. A while, I think I first heard it right out of college. Dinks, double income, no kids, which is a very kind of like free season in your life where you're making plenty of money and you can do anything you really want to do because you are not tied down by children. And so people, of course, are glorifying not just this season of life, but this choice.

Starting point is 00:03:58 You've probably heard of this antinatalist movement, which is child. field free by choice. And it's not just presenting this as a viable option for people, but actually as the better and more virtuous option because of the dangers of climate change and the way the world is going. We are presented with having no kids as the more virtuous, the more responsible, even the more mature and sophisticated option. And definitely if you were going to have kids, we're told just having one kid, maybe two if you're feeling crazy. is the right thing to do because the underlying premise is that humans make the world worse, that we weigh down the world, that we burden the worlds, that we're stripping the world of its

Starting point is 00:04:47 resources. And so rather than being a credit to society and a credit to the future, we're a debit, that is the mentality that underlies this. It's a very anti-human mentality actually when you think about it. Now, I'm not saying that everyone who chooses not to have kids is anti-human, but this movement that glorifies childlessness and glorifies the lack of responsibility and sacrifice and glorifies the convenience and comfort of not having children is something that is better and more virtuous and more responsible than having kids, that is anti-human. That does have the underlying premise that human beings are a problem rather than a benefit to. society. So I'll react to this viral video that I've seen going around on Twitter. Here it is.

Starting point is 00:05:38 We're dinks. We're going to get asked daily when we plan on having kids. We're dinks. Of course, we're going to go out to eat every night after work. We're dinks. We don't have to ask our family for financial help or to watch our kid when we want to go out. We're dinks. We're going to go to Costco and buy all the snacks in bulk that we want. We're dinks. We have disposable income to spend on whatever we would like and don't have to spend on a kid. We're dinks. I'm going to go to every football game and play 18 holes whenever I want. We're dinks. We're going to get asked at every single family event what we're doing with our life. Okay. So let me say something positive first. Let me say something positive. And that is

Starting point is 00:06:16 the season of your life, if you are choosing, which of course I believe that everyone should, to have kids after you get married, then there will be a season. Um, of your marriage where you don't have children and where you are freer to do the things that you want to do, whether that's just for nine months after your honeymoon, if you get pregnant really quickly or a year or two years or whatever it is. There is a period of time. Maybe you don't have a double income, but you probably do where you are dinks. And I will just say that is a very free and can be a really fun time. You don't realize it at the time, but you get to sleep more. It is a lot more convenient.

Starting point is 00:07:05 You get to do everything that you want to do basically, you know, within the parameters of your job responsibilities. And it's just a lot easier. Of course it's a lot easier. Of course you have more money. Of course you get to do more of the things that you want to do on a second by second basis. Yes, you're less self-centered probably than when you were. single and that's not dogging on single people it's just the way that it is when you get married you have to think about someone else and you have to bend what you want to what someone else wants and there are different

Starting point is 00:07:38 compromises and sacrifices that have to be made between the husband and the wife you have to learn to live with someone else there are all different kinds of things that you have to give up big and small when you get married but then you become this unit and then you are still self-centered in a way because it becomes not just what you want to do, but what y'all want to do together. And there's nothing necessarily inherently wrong about that. Of course, as Christians, we are still called to care for others. We're still called to put others' needs above our own and to love the church and to serve the church.

Starting point is 00:08:16 But at the end of the day, at the end of church, you get to go home on a Sunday and take a three-hour nap if you want to. And that is not always possible when you have kids. And so look, if you are in this stage of marriage right now, like if this is where God has you that you are a double income, no kids, it's okay to enjoy it. Like, you don't have to sit there and languish and say, oh my gosh, I'm just so sad and miserable because I'm not in the season of life yet of having kids. That will come. You could be grateful for these freedoms and the extra income that you might have in this stage of life. So let me just say that positivity first. It is really fun just to be with.

Starting point is 00:08:54 you and your husband and to hang out and to be able to stay up as late as you want and to sleep in as late as you want on Saturdays. That's great. However, that only gets you so far. That only lasts so long. Our lives are not meant to be centered on consumption. Centered on what we want. Centered on satiating our hunger and our thirst, literally.

Starting point is 00:09:24 metaphorically and doing all the things that we want to do with as little sacrifice as possible. Yes, that feels good, but it's not ultimately what fulfills you. That's not what human beings are for. Human beings are not for taking, taking, taking. Human beings are made to give, are made to sacrifice, are made to do really difficult and courageous things, things that take effort, things that take effort, things that take out of our comfort zone. And one of the things that I guarantee you will sanctify you in this way, will pull you out

Starting point is 00:10:04 of yourself, will force you to put the needs and the well-being of someone else before your own is not just marriage that does do that to a certain extent, but children. And it hits you like a freight train. Yes, when you're pregnant, but I would say even more so when they lay that child on your chest and you realize, oh my gosh, I would go through any pain. I would endure any hard thing for this human being that I just met in the flesh. Like I would die a thousand deaths. I would give up absolutely anything and everything just to make this person whole, just to protect this person. Like that is a life-changing, heart transforming moment in a person's life that makes

Starting point is 00:10:53 you better. It just does. It makes you more compassionate. It makes you a harder worker. And that's not to say people without kids can't be very loving and very compassionate and very sacrificial, but it takes more effort. You have to seek out those opportunities if you're a single person. If you're a dink, you don't really have to seek that out as a parent. It is a daily moment by moment dying to self because you are forced to put the needs of someone else above yourself. That's what makes human beings better. Sacrifice makes human beings better. And also, human beings make the world better.

Starting point is 00:11:33 Human beings are actually a credit to society, a credit to the world. We are a benefit to the world. We're not just a source of depletion. Like we're not just stripping the world of resources. we are actually adding goodness and adding blessings to the world when we act in a way that is sacrificial. Like the funny thing is is that these people are actually living out what they think is the detriment to having children, just consuming, consuming, consuming, stripping resources, doing everything that they want to do, not actually adding anything to society. But humans don't

Starting point is 00:12:15 have to be that way. That's not what we were made for. Like human beings can do. really difficult things. We can accomplish really incredible feats when we deny our own temporary fleeting wants in favor of what is better for someone else. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:12:53 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. So I think that there is a lot to say about why we have gotten to this place. of glorifying childlessness, child free, which I just find like super offensive. But obviously, just like every other denial and rejection of that which is good, it stems

Starting point is 00:13:45 from godlessness. It stems from going outside of the biblical order in our biblical mandates. But also it is this trendy narcissism, which is a phrase that we talk about. about a lot in this book. I don't talk that much about my book that came out in 2020 because I've got a new book coming out, so I've been focusing on that. But that's what we talk about in this book, trendy narcissism, this idea that we are constantly told, you are enough, you are sufficient, you're perfect the way that you are. The only thing that's important in life is to pursue your happiness, to pursue your dreams. And you can't do anything or succeed or love other people even

Starting point is 00:14:25 unless you love yourself first. All of these are lies. We go through the five lies. of this trending narcissism, God of self culture that we're in. And then we do our best or I do my best in this book to dispel those myths with the truth of God's word. But this trendy narcissism culture that says that you are the sinner of everything and that everything and everyone else has to sacrifice on the altar of the God of self, sacrifice on your altar. the God of self is very cruel. It does give you what you want for a period of time. It does feel good to worship yourself. I mean, remember when you go back to the Garden of Eden and Satan tempted Eve, Eve saw that the fruit was beautiful, that it looked good and that it looked like it was going to taste good.

Starting point is 00:15:20 And I'm sure that bite did taste really good. And then we saw the consequences thereafter. And that's the same thing Satan does today. when he is tempting us into godless or sinful mentalities or sinful or godless actions, he says, he shows us the benefit or the temporary satiation, satisfaction that comes from making that a sinful choice. And he downplays the consequences.

Starting point is 00:15:43 That's what he did in the Garden of Eden. That's what he does today. And the truth is, is that living a life that is completely centered on yourself, self-worship, self-love, even. I know that's seen as a positive. today, but the Bible depicts self-love exclusively as something that is actually a negative, a negative driver in our lives, that ultimately that is going to leave you unfulfilled.

Starting point is 00:16:10 Yes, you can travel the world, you can spend more money, you can do things that are easier, you can play 18 holes of golf, but at the end of the day, all of that self-centeredness is just going to leave you empty. Now, not everyone is going to get married. not everyone is going to have children. God doesn't call everyone to that. And God alone is who satisfies. Like your satisfaction also is not going to be found in your children. Your identity can't be found as wife and mom.

Starting point is 00:16:42 All of these things have to be found in Christ. But again, we are called in every season and stage that we're in to self-sacrifice. This trend of saying my life is so great because I can do everything that I want. that is ultimately leading people into a direction of brokenness and ultimate sadness. I'm just going to encourage you, as I do from time to time, like if you are married and you're a Christian in marriage, have children. There are very few reasons, I think biblical reasons, for a married Christian couple not to have kids. Whether it's through adoption or whether it's biological kids, I really encourage you, to assess your own heart and your own motives for not having kids, fear is not a reason

Starting point is 00:17:32 not to have kids. The idea that, oh, the world is so bad, I don't know what America's going to look like in 20 years and so I don't want to bring kids into that. Christians have endured a lot worse than what we're enduring today in the United States. I mean, if you think Newsom is bad, just think about Nero. Christians have endured a lot of persecution, a lot of godlessness, a lot of depravity. I'm not saying things are going in a good direction here. I'm saying if there's anything that the world needs, it's courageous Christians.

Starting point is 00:18:02 And that is your call as a Christian to raise up little Christians. And so if it's fear, if it's selfishness, you just want to consume, you just want to travel, you just don't want to give up your Saturday morning. Also not a good reason, not to have kids. Now, we talked about, and we'll link this past episode, how many kids should a Christian have like when do you stop having kids and I think there's probably a nuanced discussion to have there based on the truth of God's word and when should you start having kids? Again, I think that this is probably a discussion to be had.

Starting point is 00:18:37 You can go back and listen to that episode. We won't rehash it all here. But again, I think it's important to assess our motivations as Christians who are married. Why aren't you having kids? Is it really a biblical God glorifying reason? And are you actually being influenced by this anti-natalist movement that tells you it's more sophisticated not to have children or more responsible not to have children? Here's what God's word says about having kids. Psalm 127, 3 through 4.

Starting point is 00:19:11 Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, a heritage from the Lord. The fruit of the womb, a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one's. youth. That is God's perspective on having kids. In fact, everywhere you look in scripture, having children is seen as a blessing, not being able to have children is seen as a tragedy, is seen as a negative. Never do we see this idea in scripture of children being a burden to discard or to avoid. Everywhere in scripture, we see children as a blessing. And we are call as Christians to align to conform our minds about everything to what God's word says.

Starting point is 00:20:01 And so, of course, the world is going to get it wrong. Of course, the world is going to say, no, my reward is not having kids. My reward comes from being able to, I don't know, eat out whenever I want to. How silly and fleeting is that? Of course, the world is going to take the easy way out. That's not what Christians are called to. Christians, as we say, we have always been a refuge. The church has always been a refuge for the orphan, for the child, for the baby in the womb, for the vulnerable, for the marginalized.

Starting point is 00:20:30 We're really in so many ways just going back to pagan Greece in Rome when they also did not see children as beneficial only insofar as they could grow up to be a learned and educated man. But women, slaves, the elderly, the sick, the poor, they were all on the margins of society and really just seen as object. to be used and abused how the adult-free male saw fit. Christianity completely changed to that. Founded hospitals, orphanages, all kinds of organizations that cared for those on the outskirts of society, and we still have to be that today. And part of that is encouraging the creation and the care of children. Okay.

Starting point is 00:21:30 So just because we are in favor of Christian, couples of married couples, having kids and raising them up in the Lord, doesn't mean that we are okay with every method of conception, with every method of bringing children to life. So some people say if you're pro-baby or you're pro-life, then you need to be okay with every form of reproductive technology that allows a couple to have children. And that's not true. We care about life from conception onwards. So of course, we have something to say, something to think about and things to consider when it comes to the ethics of things like IVF and certainly surrogacy and egg selling and sperm selling. We've talked about that several times. I love seeing more and

Starting point is 00:22:17 more conservatives and commentators and Christians talking about this and thinking about this. I don't say that as someone who thinks that I was the first person to talk about this. We were definitely one of the first conservative podcast to talk about this subject. Absolutely. I think we talked about it for the first time in 2019. But really, I and I always want to make sure that I give them credit because the people who really had me thinking about it for the first time, Katie Faust and Jennifer Law, there are other people too, but I had them on my podcast, I think, for the first time,

Starting point is 00:22:52 2020, 2021. And they expanded my concern and my needs. knowledge about these subjects. And so we'll link some of those past episodes in the description of this, of this episode. But now I see a lot more people, a lot more conservatives talking about this. And I'm very, very thankful for it. Some people don't understand. Some people on the right think it's crazy that we care about surrogacy and IVF and all of that. And it's really just because most of them, they haven't thought about it. They have not heard our arguments. They don't understand our arguments. They refuse to understand our arguments because it's unpopular to talk about these things. I get that.

Starting point is 00:23:30 It's uncomfortable to talk about these things. I get plenty of conservatives really mad at me when I do talk about them. And yet, because we care about the voiceless and the vulnerable and the embryo, we have to care about the ethics of reproduction. And let me give you an example of the corruption in the reproductive industry. This is a money-making and I'm not impuging all of the motives of all of the people that have used the services provided by the reproductive industry. But I do just want to give you an example of what is going on when it comes to egg, what's called egg donation, because it's illegal to donate your, or it's illegal to sell human

Starting point is 00:24:20 tissue. It's illegal to like sell a part of your body. and so they call it egg donation or sperm donation, and technically you're paying for the time and the effort and the procedure that that person has to go through to give their eggs or sperm, but, I mean, you're really selling. You're selling your eggs and you're selling your sperm.

Starting point is 00:24:41 It's just kind of a way to circumvent any legal problems by saying egg donation and sperm donation. Anyway, so here's what's going. on. And this is not rare. This might seem like an extreme case. But here is how the egg donation process and the surrogacy process is being used by these two men. I wanted them to be super fit. You go to the bar and you go, I'm going to procreate that person, right? That's your choice as a human. I wanted to find someone that I know is going to be absolute smoke show. Basically, we chose Emily Ratanowski. So there's a company in L.A. and they have a company that basically

Starting point is 00:25:23 is supermodels who are Ivy League educated. So they have to have gone to like Brown, Columbia. No. Oh, one went to Columbia. That feels a bit strange. Is it not or no? It's a bit prostitutie, isn't it? I think it's quite fabulous, but the eggs were terribly expensive, but we got a Brazilian

Starting point is 00:25:38 supermodel. Okay, so these gay men, they picked out of the catalog, the mother of their child. That's what they're doing. They looked at a catalog and they said, who's the hottest woman, who is the most learned woman. Unfortunately, they don't realize that if you're choosing a woman that went to an Ivy League school, you are choosing someone who has significant brainworms, who's been implanted with all kinds of very stupid ideas. Hopefully that doesn't pass down to the child, but that's what happens when you go to these Ivy League institutions. But they, of course, think that that makes this woman

Starting point is 00:26:14 very smart and very sophisticated. So hot, smart woman picked this woman out of the catalog. They're going to buy her eggs. And this woman, by the way, she has to stimulate her eggs. She has to go through the IVF process. There are a lot of health implications that come along with that. But hey, she's getting paid a lot of money. People always talk about like egg donors and surrogates as these selfless, altruistic people. Look, they're getting paid tens of thousands of dollars to do this. They're doing it because it pays. So they're selling their body. They're selling their body for money. And you heard that that that guy, he's got a little instinct because he's made in the image of God. And so there's still something deep down in there that tells him, oh, morally, this feels sticky.

Starting point is 00:27:00 This feels wrong. He says, that's a bit prostitutie, isn't it? Yeah, it is. These women, both the egg seller and the surrogate, are selling their body for money at the expense of the child who is being created. This child whose mom was picked out of the catalog, who will never have any connection to him and yet holds half of his DNA. So her genetics, her history, the history of her family, her parents, her grandparents,

Starting point is 00:27:29 not just talking about like the interesting aspects of her ancestry and the history of her family and what they have accomplished, their triumphs, their trials and all of that, that's going to be a part of this little human genetic history, but also like her medical history, her health history, her parents' health history. You know, they ask those things when you go to the doctor. Parents, grandparents, like, what did they die from? And this little child is not going to know those things because his dad, these two men, picked his mom out of the catalog, and he is never going to have any connection to his mother.

Starting point is 00:28:14 And by the way, there is going to be an innate longing for a mom. Even like if we put to the side that the fact that half of his DNA and medical history and all of that is going to be an absolute mystery to him, he's going to long for a mother. And in this case where two dads have decided on his behalf that he doesn't get to have a mom, he is going to naturally instinctively as all babies do long for his mom and long at least for a mom for a woman to feel that comfort. and he is going to have instinctively bonded with the woman who carried him for the nine months of his gestation. He is going to know her heartbeat, her smell, her sound, her voice, the feeling of her body, and immediately at the point of birth, he will be ripped from her arms and put into the arms of strangers, two men, and completely robbed of the opportunity to ever have the love of not only his gestational carrier, his surrogate, but also his son.

Starting point is 00:29:17 biological mom that is worse treatment than we give to puppies whom we insist stay with their dog mom for the first eight to 12 weeks of their life but for human babies who are carried by a surrogate we're saying no you don't get that you don't get that and all for what because they want a child that is physically attractive and inherits the brain of some ivy league student this is sick this is sick. And if you don't see that conservative out there, oh, moderate conservative out there, who's just going to applaud when two men buy the bodies of two women and commodify a child in the process, ripping that child away from the woman and the mother, then it's you who is radical. It's you who has been swept up in this progressive moral sexual revolution that

Starting point is 00:30:14 has taken the country by storm for the past 20 years. You look at people like me and you think I'm extreme. You think I'm the radical person. I'm the hateful person. No, you are the one that has become completely brainwashed and completely deluded into forgetting what most people knew just 10 years ago. Even 10 years ago, okay? Just a decade ago, most people would have looked at something like this and said,

Starting point is 00:30:39 that's dystopian and hellish and absolutely we should oppose it. And the law should have something. to say about it. But you have become so radicalized. You have become so extreme that you have forgotten what was common sense just a few years ago. Not me. I'm the common sense one here. We are the common sense ones here. Okay? And if you think that I need to compromise on this fundamental moral issue in order for Republicans to win more elections, for what? For what? Like, if we're going to compromise on this, like the most fundamental. and honestly easiest of moral issues,

Starting point is 00:31:21 then we might as well just compromise on everything else. Like, just a reminder that the idea that two men or two dads, so-called, scare quotes there, can replace a mom or that two moms can replace a dad is just as illogical and as absurd as saying that, trans women are women. It is the identical, it is the same, the identical illogic behind both of those. Behind both of those ideas is the illogical, um, illogical thinking that men and women are arbitrary, that we are interchangeable, that our biology tells us nothing about how a family should be formed, or how we should function, or how society.

Starting point is 00:32:17 society should work. I know there are some people on the conservative side that say, well, I'm against the trans stuff, but I'm for, you know, the redefinition of marriage. I don't care about the LGBT. It's just the T stuff that I think is crazy. It's the same logic. The same logic is that our biology tells us nothing about how we should function. That our bodies don't have a telos, that they don't have a purpose, that we are all just widgets that can be interchial.

Starting point is 00:32:47 without any consequence to society, without any consequence for our body, without any consequence for children. And it's just not true. Men and women are different. Moms and dads are different and equally necessary. Now, does that mean these children aren't valuable? Does that mean that even these two men or two women don't love their children? I'm not saying that. Of course, these children are made in the image of God. And they have all the dignity and worth of any other child. Of course, I believe in And in the scenarios that I know, at least that these two men or two women that are creating children in this way, that they do love their child. But it is still egregious and wrong to purposely rob a child of the opportunity to have a mom

Starting point is 00:33:34 or a dad. The purposeful creation of a motherless or fatherless child is wicked. It is. Like we already have all of the stats on fatherlessness, the increase in delinquency. for the child, the higher likelihood of depression, of eating disorders, of teen pregnancy, of poverty. Like, we already know the psychological financial impact that fatherlessness can have on children. Not always, but statistically, that's what we have.

Starting point is 00:34:03 So we already know that. So creating purposefully fatherless children, we already know that that has intense consequences for the children. And yet we're saying, oh, it doesn't matter because these women just want a child. their wants go above the child's need from the get-go. And that we don't have as much data on what motherless children, what they suffer. And that is simply because that's a historical anomaly. Motherlessness is not nearly as likely or as common of a problem as fatherlessness

Starting point is 00:34:37 because it just doesn't happen as much. Mothers don't flee from their children as often as fathers tend to flee from their families throughout history. There's even a biological component too, why that is. So we don't have as much data on that. But I think it's obvious what's going to happen is that we have an intense longing for both a mother and a father and people who are honest, kids who are honest, who have been raised without a mother or a father will tell you that. We can link to the episode that we did with Ross Johnston. He was created from a sperm donor and was raised by lesbian women. And he will tell you the longing that he had for a father growing up because God made us that way.

Starting point is 00:35:26 He made us that way. And it's a beautiful creation. It's a beautiful dynamic. The biological complementarianism between men and women is so purposeful and so intricate and so beautiful that it could create new life. Of course. Of course, that's how God intended it. And of course, we flourish in that stable environment the best. Does that mean all heterosexual parents are perfect?

Starting point is 00:35:55 No, I'm not saying that. Come on. I think we're reasonable enough to understand that there is a rule here. And, you know, the family diversity theory, I see it all the time. We had Brad Wilcox on. He's been studying this at UVA. teaching this for decades at this point, the family diversity theory that, oh, kids just need loving parents, whether it's in some kind of polycule situation, whether it's two men or two women.

Starting point is 00:36:23 It doesn't matter as long as they're loved. It's not true. It's actually not true. This family diversity theory is completely bunk. There's no science behind it. There's no data behind it whatsoever. Kids don't just need loving adults. They need a mom and a dad.

Starting point is 00:36:39 Ideally, their mom and dad. and I'll tell you about the, or I'll answer the question that I get a lot. Well, how is this different than adoption then? Because you get a lot of these problems with adoption in that they are also disconnected from their medical history. They are also disconnected from their biological parents. And they also are taken away from their mother right after birth. So what is the moral difference?

Starting point is 00:37:20 Okay, so what is the difference? What's the difference between surrogacy and all the problems I just explained and adoption? Now, I've answered this before and I answer this a lot. And it is a totally illogical and fair question, but I do think that most people could figure out the answer to it if they just thought about it for a second. This is how I kind of distill it. I say that adoption redeems a broken situation and surrogacy creates one. and you could put in their sperm donation and egg donation too. So adoption redeems a broken situation and surrogacy creates one.

Starting point is 00:37:59 Now, again, on the internet, you can't have anyone say anything without someone coming along and saying, well, there's an exception to that. Here's this horrific adoption situation that I know about that completely disproves your rule. It doesn't disprove the rule. There are exceptions to every rule. I'm not saying that all adoption processes are above board. Actually, that's something I've been thinking about and reading about a lot lately is that our adoption system, and as we talked about yesterday, our foster care system has some really significant problems in it.

Starting point is 00:38:31 And we will talk about that more in the new year. I've got some plans to take a deep dive into that. But in general, like the concept of adoption is biblical. Obviously, if you look at the fact that Gentiles have been adopted by God through Jesus Christ, we are adoptees. And so we see the beauty in that in a spiritual gospel sense, but also Christians are called to care for the orphan. Again, as we talked about yesterday,

Starting point is 00:38:57 that is the pure religion to which Christians, through the power of the Holy Spirit, are called to. And adoption and fostering, Christians are far more likely than the general population to do that. And we should. That is what we are called to. In one way or another, we are to care for orphans and to care for the fatherly.

Starting point is 00:39:17 And so adoption is a beautiful thing. You are redeeming a broken situation in that. That child has already been created. The life is already there inside the womb. And so that child who can't be cared for properly by their parents for whatever reason, whatever situation their parents are in, they feel like they cannot care for that child. Then a loving couple comes along and says, we will adopt that child that has already been created and we will give them a life.

Starting point is 00:39:51 Now, here's the truth is that that is a beautiful redemption. That is a beautiful situation. But that is still the next best thing for the child. Like we can all acknowledge that. Adoptive parents can acknowledge that. The first best thing for the child would have been for their biological mother and father to be married and to take care of them together. Even if those biological parents are poorer than the adoptive parents, even if they're less educated than the adoptive parents, statistics show that it still would be better for that child to be raised by their loving, married, mother, and father.

Starting point is 00:40:33 Then it would be for them to be adopted, say, by wealthy, well-to-do parents that are not biologically related to them. And so there is something called the primal wound that happens in all adoption situations, that even though it is beautiful and it is redempted that that child is being adopted by parents who can care for them, there is still a wound that happens there because there is a separation from their biology, from their history, from part of their identity, their DNA, biological parents play a huge part in telling us who we are. Now, sometimes that wound is felt very acutely. As that child grows up, they long to know their mother and father.

Starting point is 00:41:23 I've heard from some of you who are adoptees and you say you never really had that longing. Like you were totally satisfied with your adopted parents and you didn't have a whole lot of curiosity. I would say that's more the outlier. We just have this instinct. We want to know who we are. We want to know about our history. We want to know about our DNA. And so adoption, even though it's beautiful,

Starting point is 00:41:44 and redemptive, there is a separation there. There is a wound there because you are moving from the ideal to the next best thing. And again, I hope that doesn't sound like I'm knocking adoption at all. I'm absolutely not. Again, what a God glorifying institution and practice. However, it is not the first best thing, but sometimes the first best thing, because we live, in a broken and fallen world is just not possible. But the best thing for a child is to live with their married father and mother in a stable home, not a perfect home, but a stable home. So that's adoption.

Starting point is 00:42:31 Surrogacy creates the broken situation. So this also seems to be, like I don't understand this, like a weird misunderstanding among the critics of those of us who criticize or who. talk about the concerns with surrogacy and IVF, they don't understand the difference between conception and birth. Just because we want all babies who have been conceived to be born doesn't mean that we think that all babies should be conceived, right? Like, we don't believe that, like, anything goes when it comes to conception just because

Starting point is 00:43:08 we believe that all babies who have been conceived shouldn't be killed. Like, it's just so silly to me that people are confused. about that. But you are conceiving, you are creating a child with the purpose of creating that wound, right? Like someone who gets pregnant probably and then it ends up putting their child up for adoption didn't conceive that child on purpose with the purpose of putting them up for adoption, right? In most of these scenarios. But when you are creating a child with the intention, of placing them on ice or discarding the embryos or donating the embryos or selling your eggs, you are creating that wound. You are purposely, intentionally creating that separation.

Starting point is 00:44:05 You are purposely taking it outside of the natural order and you are placing a burden on that child at their earliest stages of development in service of what you want. Whether it is in the case of like a man and a woman using a surrogate or whether it's in the case of two men or two women. Obviously, again, the consequences are greater for two men or two women because you are also robbing them of a mother or father. So that's the difference. Redeeming a broken situation, creating a broken situation.

Starting point is 00:44:37 Adoption seeks to alleviate the burden created by brokenness. on that child. And surrogacy, egg selling, sperm selling, seeks to place that burden on the child. And so that's the difference. Adults are called to sacrifice for children, not the other way around. So I hope that answers it. All right. We got a couple more things to talk about. Okay, I told Bree yesterday, is that I don't want to talk about anything to do with trans tomorrow because it's too much. Like, we just have to talk about it so much because it's everywhere all of the time. And, like, the battle is heating up so much because I think that the pro-reality side is winning. In a lot of ways that, like, you don't think that the apparatus, like, the gender confusion

Starting point is 00:45:28 apparatus is going to go down without a fight, right? Like, there's billions of dollars behind this. There's power. And there's, like, people's sexual fetishes in the midst of this that people are going to hold on to for dear life. And so it's not going to fall without a fight. Plus, Satan is behind it. And, you know, Satan is the Prince of the Power of the Air. As Ephesians 2 says, this is like, I mean, this is his masterpiece, the confusion of the genders. And so he is going to, like, he's going to push for this really, really hard. So we do have to talk about it a lot. We're not going to talk about it that much, okay? We're not going to talk about it that much. I just want to play you. I just want to play you this clip.

Starting point is 00:46:09 Bree, could you tell us, before we play the clip and react to it, can you tell us a little bit of context behind the clip that we're about to listen to? Yeah. So this was, this was yesterday, actually. The House Subcommittee for Healthcare and Financial Services was holding this hearing on the impact of trans women's inclusion in women's sports. So this woman, she's the National Women's Law Center CEO, Fatima Gossi. graves this was her state part of her part of her statement yeah got it okay let's play it genetic composition of a transgender versus a woman the same no well I'm not a scientist but we're talking about science here so I mean I hope you they're not the same so that's why you see all these physiological differences if I the science genetically is a man is a man is a different genetics and women plain and simple

Starting point is 00:47:06 That's just what it is. I guess what I would say is that I'm not a scientist or doctor, but is my understanding that it is more complex than what you are saying, in that there is variation among men and among women and sometimes more variation among than there is between. Again, I'm not a scientist, and, you know, I don't think the panelists are scientists either. It seems like it may be a different scientific hearing that you can. Oh, my gosh.

Starting point is 00:47:35 I mean, this is like Katanji Brown Jackson when she was like, I'm not a biologist. I can't tell you a definition of a woman. And oh my gosh, we had Christians, your favorite Christian SJW is actually some of whom a lot of Christian conservatives listen to. I won't name names because that'll take us on a rabbit trail. But, you know, defending her Katanji Brown Jackson is so awesome. She couldn't even define what a woman is. Well, this woman right here who is the head of National Women's Law Center, she couldn't tell you the difference. between a man and a woman. It's so complex. It's never been complex anywhere for all of human history

Starting point is 00:48:10 until right now. All of a sudden, in the past five years, the biology of gender has become so complex. And it's just a coincidence that one set of humans has huge hands and huge feet in an Adam's apple and different genitalia and no uterus. And the other set of humans has smaller hands and larger hips and a uterus and smaller feet and happen to be shorter in a small. And a Smaller anaerobic and aerobic capacity and smaller hearts and lower brain density. It's just a coincidence. All of those things. Like those two categories of human beings, I wish we had a name to place on them.

Starting point is 00:48:53 But apparently we don't. It's very, very complicated, you see. It's very gray. It's very messy. And you have to have a degree from Columbia to know the difference. between a man and a woman. See, this is the interesting thing about the academic and, like, intellectual elites so-called of this day is that they do, they're not actually dumb in the sense that they can write

Starting point is 00:49:18 sophisticated sentences. They can speak. They've got good rhetorical skills. They're not actually stupid in the way that we think of stupid. Like, they're probably not super low IQ, although I do think a lot of them are actually low IQ. but like they can actually talk, right? They're not dumb in the sense that like they don't understand really what words mean.

Starting point is 00:49:43 They're sophisticated and educated in that sense. But they're stupid in other ways that like if you took the least educated person in America in the world who had, you know, if you went to a tribe in Africa and you talked to someone who had never been to school, had never read a book, totally illiterate, and you asked them to explain in their own language, the difference between a man and a woman, they would be able to give you a more sophisticated answer than the most educated and, quote, unquote, smartest people in the richest country in the world in the United States. How strange is that? I mean, this reminds me, it reminds me of a lot of things, but it reminds me every day we're reminded of Romans, of Romans one.

Starting point is 00:50:30 for although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking and their foolish hearts were darkened, claiming to be wise. They became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. That's where we are. That's where we are. You know what?

Starting point is 00:50:55 It's more difficult, I think, than in years past being a Christian, just because the powers that be are so strongly and powerfully against us. And we have institutions just denying basic biological truth, but it's also simpler than ever. Like you can say things like a man is a man and a woman as a woman. You don't even have to say the gospel to stand out and to be human salmon as we say and to go against the grain and to stand up for biblical truth. Like in a way, it's easier. You just get to say things that are so obvious that are covered in the first chapter.

Starting point is 00:51:30 of the first book of the Bible. So be bold, therefore, be bold. All right, okay, so we got to end on something. And again, I wasn't going to talk about, I wasn't going to talk about all this, but this was going around earlier, this clip of Nikki Haley in an interview. Madam Ambassador, another question is,

Starting point is 00:52:03 what care should be on the table when a 12-year-old child in this country assigned female at birth says, actually I feel more comfortable living as a boy. What should the law allow the response to be? I think the law should stay out of it and I think parents should handle it. All right. All right. Nikki Haley. There are things I like about Nikki Haley. I actually, I would really love for her to come on the show. I feel like I'm probably ruining my chances of that happening every time I say something negative about her. But I'm really just disagreeing. This is this, I mean, the second big thing recently,

Starting point is 00:52:39 that I've disagreed with her on. She criticized Ron DeSantis for for his actions towards Disney, which I totally supported. And then she said, this was an interview a few months ago, she said, Disney, come on to South Carolina. Okay, first of all, that's so silly. You think, where are they going to go? Are they going to go to Columbia? Is Disney World going to set up in Columbia and move from Orlando? Okay. Like, let's think about that just for a second. But also, like, are, that's what you're saying? Like, you want Disney. This huge. powerful entity that is trying to influence schools and influence the law in the way of transing kids to come to the conservative state of South Carolina. That's what you think South Carolinians want.

Starting point is 00:53:21 But it's this like the economy at all costs like boomer conservatism that I just can't get on board with. And that's why I like Ronda Santis so much because he like understands that. that no, I don't want a GOP that's just bowing down to corporations all the time that says, oh, no, no, no, the law shouldn't protect kids getting chemically castrated. Like, what? If the law is not for the protection of kids from getting chemically castrated and their healthy breast cut off because they are, they say they're confused about their gender, then we just shouldn't have laws. If the law doesn't protect us against that, then we should not. then we shouldn't have laws. We should just live in an anarcho state. That's what it should be. Like, what in the Asa Hutchinson is this? No.

Starting point is 00:54:18 I mean, that's completely, completely not where we are. Completely not where we are, Nikki Haley. Nope. She's just trying to, I guess, set herself up against DeSantis. But this is the thing. This is what Trump is doing too. people who are trying to run against Ronda Santis, they're going to the left of Rondasantis.

Starting point is 00:54:38 They're like, oh, Ronda Santos is too conservative. Too conservative towards Disney. As Trump said, he's too conservative on abortion. Now, Nikki Haley, even though she's not talking about DeSantis, she's probably implicitly talking about him. Oh, he's too conservative on the gender stuff. Who are you appealing to exactly? Not me.

Starting point is 00:54:58 That is for sure. All right. Just wanted to end that on a Nikki Haley note. And we will be back here tomorrow with a very interesting interview that you guys are going to love. So see you back here then. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Alley, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself.

Starting point is 00:55:31 On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 918 | My Response to the 'DINK' Trend

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