Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 919 | No Good Surrogacies: A Surrogacy Baby Speaks Out | Guest: Olivia Maurel

Episode Date: December 7, 2023

Today we're joined by Olivia Maurel, who was born via surrogacy but didn't find out until much later in life. Today, she speaks out against surrogacy in all forms, claiming that there is no such thing as good surrogacy, and she shares her story with us, beginning with how she first found out the truth about her birth. She explains that she always intrinsically knew something was off, and when she came across surrogacy centers in Kentucky, where she was born, she put the pieces together. She shares her journey of struggling to find a maternal bond growing up, as well as the mental health issues she never knew were actually passed down from her biological mother, and feeling that there is a price tag on her life. We discuss the many reasons one should be opposed to surrogacy, regardless of political affiliation, and explain why despite the trauma of her experience, God is using her to reveal the truth about this sensitive topic. We also give a recap on last night's Republican primary debate and a few viral moments that came out of it. To support Olivia's journey to end surrogacy: https://www.givesendgo.com/abolish_surrogacy?utm_source=sharelink&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=abolish_surrogacy --- Timecodes: (01:25) Intro (02:30) Republican debate thoughts (16:47) Finding out about surrogacy birth (26:55) Adoption and surrogacy (32:45) Birth certificate change / DNA test (40:50) Alienated from parents (44:36) Thinking critically about surrogacy (51:05) Surrogacy laws in other countries (56:00) God is using this --- Today's Sponsors: Birch Gold — protect your future with gold. Text 'ALLIE' to 989898 for a free, zero obligation info kit on diversifying and protecting your savings with gold. CrowdHealth — get your first 6 months for just $99/month. Use promo code 'ALLIE' when you sign up at JoinCrowdHealth.com. Patriot Mobile — go to PatriotMobile.com/ALLIE or call 972-PATRIOT and use promo code 'FRIDAY76' to get a free smart phone with activation! My Patriot Supply — prepare yourself for anything with long-term emergency food storage. Get $200 of survival gear when you buy a Four-Month Emergency Food Kit when you go to MyPatriotSupply.com. --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 554 | IVF, Embryo Adoption, & Surrogacy: Answering the Hard Questions | Guest: Jennifer Lahl https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-554-ivf-embryo-adoption-surrogacy-answering-the/id1359249098?i=1000549207733 Ep 659 | How the Fertility & Gender Industries Exploit Girls for Profit | Guest: Jennifer Lahl https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-659-how-the-fertility-gender-industries-exploit/id1359249098?i=1000575803016 Ep 482 | Children Have the Right to a Mom and a Dad | Guest: Katy Faust https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-482-children-have-the-right-to-a-mom-and-a/id1359249098?i=1000534144056 Ep 836 | Surrogacy Horror: Gay ‘Dads’ Demand Abortion | Guest: Brittney Pearson https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-836-surrogacy-horror-gay-dads-demand-abortion-guest/id1359249098?i=1000620814003 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this

D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Olivia Morrell was born via surrogate and she has spent years of her life feeling abandoned and like she didn't belong. And now she is speaking out about the surrogacy industry and the dangers of child and female exploitation. that are inherent in the practice and the industry. Her testimony is so powerful. Before we get into it, we will talk a little bit about the Republican presidential debate last night.

Also, before we get into that, I do want to remind you that we've got amazing Christmas gifts for the relatable fan in your life. That's you and your spouse and your family and your friends, I'm sure. If you go to alleymerge.com, you will see we've got amazing crewneck sweatshirts that are new, t-shirts, all that kind of stuff, but also the mugs. The mugs are amazing. We've got our do-the-next-right thing, mugs. And then we've also got our razor-respectful ruckus mugs made in the USA, super high-quality, great stocking stuffer. So go to Alleymerch.com,

and I think I forgot to mention yesterday. If you use Alley 25, you get 25% off your order. So use promo code to Alley, 25% off your order when you do that. All right, this episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to go to ranchers.com. Use code to Alley for a discount that's goodmanjors.com code alley. Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Thursday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. I am so excited for you to listen to the interview that we've got for you today with the woman who was born of surrogacy. Her story is really, really powerful. I will say, so she is, she's French. And so you'll hear some differences in like the words she chooses to

used for different things. So if there are some things that she says that you're like, wait, I didn't quite understand the word that she chose. It is because she is a French speaker. But her English is perfect. There are just some differences there. So I wanted to give you a heads up about that. But gosh, share this interview far and wide for anyone who is on the fence about surrogacy or hasn't been thoroughly convinced that it is a corrupt industry and a corrupt practice. they've got to listen to her testimony that she is giving us today. But before we get into that, I just, I did want to say a couple things about the fourth Republican debate last night.

And you might be thinking, there's been four debates. What? I haven't been paying attention to them at all. Now is the time to probably start paying attention. Believe it or not, next year is election year. I cannot believe that it is already here. I can't believe it is already here. But starting at the beginning of the year, we're really going to be.

be gearing up and looking at this primary, this Republican primary. And there have already been, as I said, several debates. Trump has not been present at the debate. So that's probably why you haven't been hearing quite as much about them. But I tuned in last night. I haven't tuned into all of the debates. I'll just be honest about that. But I did tune in last night mostly because my girl, Megan Kelly, was the moderator, one of three moderators, and she did a great job. All of the moderators did a great job. This was a news nation debate. The Fox News debate that we saw a couple weeks ago, I heard some of those questions. I thought the questions were ridiculous, just completely superfluous in some cases. And in other cases, couched in like the liberal assumption of something,

like how they would ask a question would be like giving credit to the liberal position on, say, abortion or immigration. That was not the case last night. There were very hard hitting questions. So right out the gate, you had Megan Kelly, always with amazing questions, taking no prisoners. She asked Ron DeSantis, basically, look, you won in Florida, you did a good job, but you are not even close to Trump in the polls right now. And so do you think the voters are saying not no, but not now? And here is a part of his answer to that question. I am sick of Republicans who are not willing to stand up and fight back against what the left is doing to this country. You've got to be willing to stand strong and you've got to be willing to beat these people.

I'm the only one running for president that has beaten these people on issue after issue. We beat the teachers' unions when we did school choice. We beat Fauci on COVID. We beat George Soros when we removed two of his radical district attorneys. We beat the Democrats on election integrity. delivered results. That's what we need for this country. So we didn't play you the whole answer, but right out the gate, I thought it was really, really strong. He said, you know what, I'm not looking at the polls. We did amazing in Florida. Here's who we beat. We beat Fauci. We beat the

teachers unions. We beat the Democratic Party there and we can do that on a national scale. Now, I believe that. But Megan Kelly is right. He is way behind Donald Trump. Here are the polls, at least according to 538. You've got Trump at 59.6%. Wow. Desantis at 12.7%, Haley at 10.6, and Ramoswami at 4.9%. And then we've got Chris Christie, who was also on the debate stage, who is not even like a part of these polls. No one actually thinks that he is going to win the nomination. But he's hanging in there. He's hanging in there.

So Trump, who has not been a part of any of these debates, is taken. the lead, the strong lead. And Nikki Haley is coming up close to Ron DeSantis, which is exactly why Ron DeSantis went after Nikki Haley in his question. And I appreciate that he did that. Because Nikki Haley, I mean, there are plenty of things about Nikki Haley

that I think are very commendable that I like. If she somehow ended up being the nominee, of course I would vote for her versus Joe Biden. That's not even a question. But she said some things recently that I really did. like. She is a little too soft on abortion. She tries to be too nuanced, walk the line too much when it comes to Roe v. Wade and what laws should be on the books about abortion. She made a comment

that we talked about on here a few months ago where she criticized Ron DeSantis for his war on Disney and then invited, of course, I'm sure in a tongue-in-chequeway, invited Disney to South Carolina. Invited Disney to South Carolina. Now, does South Carolina, The conservative South Carolinians, do you really want a company like Walt Disney to be infiltrating your school districts to be influencing what curriculum your children are learning so that your children learn in kindergarten that they can switch genders? Like is that is that the kind of influence, the kind of corporate influence that South Carolinians want? But apparently Nikki Haley thinks so. And then of course she made the comment just this week. I think we did talk about it on yesterday's show that the law has no place when it comes to,

when it comes to the genital mutilation of children. It has no place when it comes to these quote unquote gender affirming surgeries on minors, the double mastectomies for teen girls, the chemical castration of preteen boys. She said in an interview, the law does not have a place. What in the Asa Hutchinson? Yes, we did talk about that yesterday because I think I said the same thing. So she is like running to the left of Ronda Santis. Ronda Santis called her out because he is, she is catching up to him.

And then Ramoswamy also called her out really for being kind of a hawk. He's much more isolationist or at least he says he does. And he says he's anti-corporation, whereas she has a lot of corporations backing her. As she said last night, Wall Street is backing her. She just had a meeting with Black Rock and Vanguard. These companies who are funding the moral rock. at an institutional level in our country. So she addressed those things.

Ronda Santis obviously going after her. And then I've got a couple more things to say about Rondasantis and a little bit more of a superficial analysis. And then that'll conclude this segment of our podcast and everything that I have to say about the debate. Okay. So I just wanted to play one more thing that people are talking about. It's Vivek versus Nikki Haley.

he called her on something because he is criticizing her and other Republicans for wanting to fund this war in Ukraine, which he doesn't believe that America should be involved in that. I'm obviously sympathetic to that position, although it's probably a little more complicated than these formats of debates allow. But I do think he's like very clear and consistent, at least on this issue. and he says he calls Nikki Haley out and was like, you can't even name three provinces in Ukraine. And that was that was a bet. He wasn't sure if he was right about that. But it turns out he was. So here's that.

Foreign policy experience is not the same as foreign policy wisdom. I want everybody at home to note that I was the first person to say we need a reasonable peace deal in Ukraine. Now a lot of the neocons are quietly coming along to that position with the exceptions of Nikki Haley and Joe Biden, who's still support this, what I believe, is pointless war in Ukraine. And I think those with foreign policy experience, one thing that Joe Biden and Nikki Haley have in common is that neither of them could even state for you three provinces in eastern Ukraine that they want to send our troops to actually fight for. Look at that. This is what I want people to understand. These people have, I mean, she has no idea what the hell the names of those provinces are, but she wants to send

our sons and daughters and our troops and our military equipment to go fight it. So reject this myth that they've been selling you, that somebody had a cup of coffee stint at the UN and then makes eight million bucks after has real foreign policy experience. It takes an outsider to see this through. Look at the blank expression. She doesn't know the names of the provinces that she wants to actually fight for. And there's a puppet manager. The donors, the donors right there that are playing her about the puppet mask. Enough. Hold on. Woo. I mean, he made a bet that she would not be able to name the three provinces. But I do want to say, because people are saying, oh, she didn't even know three provinces. He specifically said the three provinces that she wants to send troops to.

So just to hedge a little bit to give her maybe the BOD, maybe that's why she didn't want to answer that question. But of course, this turned into the viral moment. So the vague wins the Twitter debate. That's what happens is that I don't think he won the actual debate. I think Rondosantis was the strongest in his responses, but he is always going to win among the people on Twitter who did not watch the debate because he is so rhetorically sharp and rhetorically talented. And like he's, I would say the like most online candidate. So he says what the Twitter conservatives want to hear and he's going to go viral that way, which is a strategy.

Like it might be an effective strategy because I don't think most people are watching the debates. They're just catching the highlights after. and he's probably the best at packaging the highlights for social media. So that's a strategy. Okay, let me give you my like hard hitting analysis that this is really just about their appearance. Okay. So I was telling my husband this actually earlier and he was like, you know, you need to say that because that's interesting. One thing that I will give Nikki Haley, even though I disagree with some things that she has said, some like really important things.

She has dressed really well. She dresses really well as a female politician. And you know how I know that she is doing a good job when it comes to her hair and her makeup and her appearance. And I know I know you're not supposed to talk about this. You're not supposed to talk about this for a woman because no one has talked about it. No one has talked about her clothing choice. No one has talked about her hair. No one has talked about her makeup.

And you know if no one is talking about a woman's appearance, then she is doing a good job of dressing herself. because as a woman in politics, it's not fair, but this is how it is. You can't look like you're trying too hard and you can't look like you're not trying enough. If you're trying too hard, then you're a pick-me. If you're not trying enough, then you're slovenly. She doesn't look homely, but she doesn't look like she is trying to draw attention to her appearance. Everything is well-tailored. Everything is nice and simple.

So good job. Nikki Haley and her glam squad. It is really difficult, I think, as a woman in politics, to strike that balance, but she's doing a really good job. I will say Ron DeSantis as someone who is a Ron DeSantis stand. I really like Ron DeSantis and everything that he's done. I just want to say this from love. He needs someone to tailor his suits.

He needs someone to tailor his suits. He's lost weight. That's a great thing. But his suits need to be better fitting. Does that matter long term in either of these cases, Nikki Haley or Ron DeSantis? It doesn't. Of course not.

It doesn't affect how you can lead. But look, people are super. superficial. We have cared about the aesthetics of our presidential candidate going all the way back to Nixon v. Kennedy. And so I think that this is a very simple fix that whether it's fair or not can communicate something to voters. How someone looks and their ability to fill out a suit, it communicates something to voters. I'm not saying it's right. I'm not saying it's fair. It's just the way it is. And you don't want people talking about your appearance, but people are talking about Ron DeSantis' suits.

And you don't want people noticing. You probably don't even remember what Vivek was wearing. That's because he had probably a well-tailored suit on. You don't want people to notice. If people are talking about it, then you're doing something wrong. So better tailored suits. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Olivia, thanks so much for taking the time to come on. Could you just tell us a little bit about who you are?

and what you do? So I'm Olivia. I'm 31 years old. I'm about to turn 32, actually. I'm a mother of three. I live in the south of France, and I am married to a wonderful man. Today I am fighting against surrogacy.

I'm using my story to fight against surrogacy and try to, you know, speak my word and take my word out there. we have a lot in common i am also 31 almost 32 and a mother and a mother of three yeah um so i first i saw your testimony um on twitter a couple weeks ago and i was like gosh i've got to get her on my show it was the international conference on surrogacy it was held at the parliament of the check republic this was on november 21st and it's been going around on twitter um back back us up Tell us why you're speaking out about this, why you're opposing surrogacy.

I was born from surrogacy, so 30, almost 32 years ago, through traditional surrogacy in Kentucky. And I have suffered a lot from the trauma of what surrogacy has caused me. And I really wanted to make sure that people knew that surrogacy wasn't, this beautiful kind of magical thing that we like to portray it on media. So yeah, I really wanted to show people that the negative aspects of surrogacy,

that surrogacy isn't what it looks like in the media. It's dark. It's full of negative things. It's using women as incubators. It's selling and buying children. And it's also causing a lot of harm on children. I'm 32, I'm almost 32 years old, but I'm going to say I'm 32 years old.

It took me 31 years of time to speak out. All these children that are starting, I mean, that are being born now, they can't speak up yet. We'll see in the future generations what it's going to cause, but I do thoroughly believe that we are going to see a generation of children that are going to be very hurt by surrogacy because they were born that way. And you said that you were born via traditional surrogacy. I actually hadn't heard this term,

but this means that the surrogate was also the egg donor, which from my understanding, that is now not only uncommon, but also illegal in most cases, that the egg donor, the egg seller has to be separate from the gestational, carrier, but your biological mother was also your gestational carrier, correct? Exactly. That's how it is. But it does still happen. And you can see it on internet, actually. A lot of centers still sell traditional surrogacy. Okay. And when did you find out that you were conceived in this way?

That's a good question. I always kind of knew. I mean, I always felt like I didn't fit in my entire. her life was kind of awkward with my parents. Up until I was about 16 to 17 years old, where I started getting more and more questions, like just popping up in my head concerning my birth, and I had to get answers. So I just went to Google. I googled Louisville, Kentucky,

and I started getting all these, I mean, these internet websites concerning surrogacy. And that's when it kind of, all clicked into place. So as of then, I started saying to everyone that I was born by a surrogacy. And this was before, okay, so. Yeah, that's when I was 16, 17 years old. And what, I know that you said that things were kind of like awkward with your parents,

but were there any specific clues that made you think this? Because like I'm thinking, I don't think I would have ever even known what that was or even tried to deduce that as a teenager. So how did you know to even search for something like that? I don't know. It was kind of like it was in me. My mother, I mean, we always had really weird, like not a very good connection with my mother.

I love her, but we don't have like that mother-daughter kind of interaction thing going on. Yeah, exactly bond. And she doesn't really look like me. we don't have the same passions. I really don't share much with this person, except that she, I know, she, she, of course, she offered me an education and whatever, but I don't share much with that person.

And I knew something was off. So I knew it was either adoption or something else. And that's when I started just looking up maybe things that were happening with with surrogacy in Louisville, Kentucky at that point in time. So when I was 16, 17 years old. Okay. And where were you raised? I was raised between Florida and the south of France.

Okay. And you searched Louisville, Kentucky because you knew that you had been born there? Yeah, exactly. On my birth certificate, that's where I was born, on my passport, whatever. Okay. So you're 16. 17 then and did you go to your parents at that point the people who raised you and say hey is this true? No, never. I would never have gotten to them. I felt like I had kind of this. I mean, I couldn't. It was impossible. I couldn't go up to them and be like, okay, hey, I know that this is, I was born through surrogacy. Tell me the truth. No, that that just wouldn't happen. I was too scared of how they would react.

what they would say. I was still living under their roof, so I couldn't go against them and the way I was born. It was impossible. And so I kind of just kept that inside of me. But I was telling the whole world apart from them that I was born by a surrogacy. That's what was insane. So I was telling the doctors. I was telling my friends. I was, I mean, I was just, I met my husband at the age of 21. I was telling him. I told my mother-in-law and because I told my mother-in-law, so my husband's mother, and she just knew and she saw me suffer. She just saw me suffer all these years. And so at the age of 30, she offered me a DNA test. And that's when I had the physical proof. Okay. So you just knew intuitively, when you searched for surrogacy in Louisville, Kentucky, like what exactly did you find?

that confirmed your intuitive feeling that this was how you were conceived and carried? Websites concerning surrogacy centers. Okay. Gotcha. And so you did not go to your parents at this time. And when you say that your mother-in-law saw you suffer, talk a little bit more about your suffering. Like, I know that you said it was awkward going up. I imagine that that in itself is traumatic, not feeling like you have a real bond with your mom.

That's such an important bond to have. But when you say that even in your adult life, you were suffering from this, what do you mean by that? Well, I had difficulties with addictions such as drugs, alcohol. I suffered with a lot of things. I always felt the trauma of abandonment. So I was always in this position where I was scared that people would leave me. I have difficult, I have, I have, I still have difficult, I have difficulty, sorry, having friendships because I suffocate people and I tend to like, you know, suffocate them and

they just leave me because they're, they get annoyed by me, basically. But I'm so scared that they, that they'll leave that I suffocate them. So it's kind of, kind of annoying. and yeah I still have that void. My mother, biological mother and surrogate mother, she left me at my birth. She left me. She exchanged me for a check.

I mean, I don't blame her because she did it because she probably needed the money. But it's the truth. She did abandon me at one point in my life where I needed her the most. And that left of work. void. And that void, I tried to fill it up my entire life. So I tried filling it up with alcohol, drugs, friendships, and also I had weird relationships with older women. So like I would try to find

the mother figure in every older woman that would come about in my life. But of course, I could never fill that void. Right. Right. And so your parents, sought out this woman. So your dad is your biological dad. They sought out this woman and she went through, I guess, the IVF process in order to conceive you, right? Yes, she did. Yeah. So I imagine, even though there is a wound and a separation that happens with adoption too, this probably feels different though, because it was more transactional. She needed money. And so she conceived you purposely with the intention of abandonment, right? Which is a little different than if you find yourself with a surprise pregnancy and you can't

take care of your child and you give your child to a loving family. This was much more transactional. I just imagine that that probably compounds the feelings of loss that you have. Yeah, I agree. That's how I describe the difference between adoption and surrogacy. And that's because people always compare surrogacy with adoption. I don't know why, but it's two completely different things. In surrogacy, we are prescribing the abandonment.

That's what René Friedman, who's a very well-known gynecologist, that's how he calls it, the prescribed abandonment. I just love that term because it's exactly what it is. We are intentionally programming the abandonment of children by their birth mother, which is horrible and we are intentionally going to create that primal wound that adoptees talk a lot about. And yeah, at one point in my life, I was a trans, I was part of a transaction. I actually have a price tag on my head, which is sometimes difficult to carry. And is also why I had a hard time speaking up because as a surrogate-born child, we have a price tag.

worth a lot of money. And so because of that, we are not allowed to talk. We have to be grateful. We have to be grateful towards our intended parents. So yeah, that's, it's not the adoption and surrogacy are two completely different things and we must keep them different. Yeah. I like to say that adoption in general redeems a broken situation where a surrogacy creates one. It's a life that's already been created and the next best option, if the biological parents can't raise that child is adoption by loving parents. Surrogacy, you're purposely creating motherless and fatherless children, or at least you are creating them to be separated from the woman that carried them. And then ex-selling and sperm selling, it's the same kind of thing. One thing that we've also talked

about is like the loss of medical information that a child has, when they are unknowingly but intentionally separated from their biological family. Half your DNA is from this woman that you were not raised by. And that has presented obstacles for you, right? Like you have only later found out some of the mental health struggles that she had. Exactly. I had no idea, no clue. And I was struggling with mental health issues throughout my entire life. And I had no idea why.

and I just recently found out that she struggles, of course, with these mental issues and that, of course, it comes from her. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, that's, that was a big issue for me because when I got pregnant from my first daughter, Eleanor, I kind of was just like, okay, I'm having this baby. And I have no clue what I'm going to give to her. like what kind of diseases am I going to give her? Am I, is she going to have breast cancer maybe later on? Or is she going to have mental health issues? There were so many questions that I was asking of myself.

And I didn't have answers to. But yeah, that's 25% of the DNA of my children that I didn't know, which is incredible to me. And it should not be allowed. It shouldn't be allowed. So your birth certificate had, already been altered, right, to remove your biological mother's name? So she was supposed, like, we were supposed to just, like, erase her from your history without a trace.

Exactly. So what happens is that I was born. My parents had a house in Florida. So we moved to Florida, like, right after my birth. But it took, like, three to four days to have a new birth certificate delivered so that my birth mother, my surrogate mother, was completely erased and it was replaced by my intendant mother. So on my birth certificate says that my intended mother is my birth mother, and that's false. Right. And it's kind of dangerous as well, because, I mean, it's, right. It's, it's not true. It's not true. Yeah, it's lying. It's lying. And we're supposed to. We're supposed to to these certificates are supposed to be true and they're not. And it should have at least mentioned that I was born via surrogacy or at least adopted or at

least something. Right. But no, it says that my intended mother is my biological mother, which is not true. Yeah. And that's a piece of your identity that, like you said, they are lying about it. And it's an important piece of your identity. Wiped away from my, it's just wiped away. Yeah.

don't consider it. Yeah. But it, which is interesting, is that they try to erase it. But early on when I was younger, I was like, I remember I was like eight or seven. And, you know, we all have those little journals where we write our lover, like, who we like and who we love and who's our best friend whatsoever. And in my journal, I wasn't writing these stuff. I was writing, I was in France at the time. And I was writing, oh, I knew.

to go back to America. I love America. I am American. I need to go back to America. It was just this one idea that I had and I was that I was writing down in my journal. And so you see, the genes were like saying, okay, you are American. You need to go back to your country. So the papers lie, but the genes, they don't lie. And at one point, they come back and, you know, it was kind of like America was calling me, you know? Yeah, right. And the birth certificate thing, in all of this that you're talking about, I mean, they do that for the parents. They do that for the parents to give the parents or, you know, the people who raised you, your dad and the mother who raised you, it's for them. It's to give them a sense of legitimacy. So they can look at the piece of paper and say, no, this is my real child.

the transaction checked out. Like this is, you know, the check cashed. This is my receipt, basically, of that. And in all of this, it is because, I mean, this is the pushback that I get when I talk about surrogacy. I'm sure you do too. But what about the people who really want a child? What about the people who really want to be parents?

What about the people who have XYZ health issue and they have to use a surrogate? They have to use an ag or sperm donor. it's like people can't get out of their minds that the primary like the primary thing cannot be what adults want it can't be that adults want it so anything goes right exactly there is no right to have a child that's what i say every time people tell me these things there is no right to have a child i mean that has to just get into people's minds but children have rights and we have the right to know where we come from We have the right to not be separated from our mothers at birth. We have the rights to be raised by our mothers. And those are just such primal and important rights that we step on and we just spit on with surrogacy. But people can't understand that. They don't.

They just can't. Yeah. It seems like they really can't. And you've met, well, okay, actually, before I ask that, let me ask you about the moment that, so your mother-in-law, she helped you get this DNA test that confirmed what your suspicion had always be, which is, again, I just think, I just think it's so wild and really cool that your intuition just knew. It just knew. So this DNA test just confirmed what you already knew about who you are and what your ancestry is. So tell me about that moment. What was it like when you had that confirmation. It was surreal. I remember it precisely.

It was on January 11th, 2003, so it's actually really recent. Yeah, really recent. Yeah, really recent. But she was, this, I'm actually going to write in a book because I have to write a book about this. It's so important to me. But like when I open the text,

The first thing that you see is like your ethnical background. And I mean, I had no French blood in my ethnic background. Like nothing, nothing came out. So at first I was like, okay, wow, that's, that's, I feel better. Yeah. Because that just, I mean, I had the answer to my questions. So your dad is not French. My dad is not French.

My dad is Swiss. Okay. So, but my DNA test identified that I was Swiss. So everything was covered. And then what was interesting is that this, I mean, we knew that it was going to help me find my DNA, I mean, my ethnic background. But we didn't know that it was going to help me find my half siblings because I did find my half siblings via this test. So I scroll down. my cousin because, you know, the DNA kind of matches with all the other DNA in the, in the,

what you might call it, the, like the DNA pond that the, the, the system has. And I was matched with my cousin. And so I write to my cousin and I'm like, okay, well, I am this person. I think I was born by a surrogacy. Maybe you know someone in your family. that you surrogacy and you can help me out and help me find my biological mother. And she actually responded and she said that she does know someone. And she put me in contact with my half-brother. And then my half-brother put me in contact with my half-sisters. And then I got in contact with my biological mother. And that day, I felt so much better. So much better because I just had 30, like, 31 years of questions in my head.

I was, I just felt relieved, honestly, relieved that I finally had the answers to my questions. But now I have other questions. Like, how could she have sold me? How could at one point I, how could she have sold me? How could she have given one of her children and kept the rest? How could I have been a product at one point in my life? You know, there's so many other questions that. pop up and that are very emotional to me still. Yeah. And, you know, some people might be listening

to this is, as you know, this is like a very hot topic that even, you know, I'm a conservative Christian and the conservatives listening to this, you would think would be on our same page, but not all of them are. And so some of them might be saying, well, this is just her. This is just one person. She happens to have these feelings that doesn't, that doesn't speak for everyone, born via surrogacy. And while that may be true, I have heard what you told me about how you felt from every person that I know born via sperm or egg donation or surrogacy, they struggle their whole lives with feelings of abandonment, feelings that their mom had been picked out of the catalog or their dad had been picked out of the catalog feeling, as you said, you said it so profoundly that, like,

there was a price tag on your head. And that is what we are forced. That is the burden that we are forcing tiny humans, babies to carry when we say, my desire to be a parent is more important than the well-being and the rights of this child. Exactly. And I just want to say that it's not because some people live, I mean, it's not because some children, born via surrogacy, live well, that we have to legitimate surrogacy. That it doesn't make it legitimate, at least. I had this lady talked to me the other day. She was like, well, it's not because, I mean, you cut your arm off and you have a prosthetic arm,

and then you live okay. I mean, you live well with your prosthetic arm that it makes cutting arms okay. It's kind of like it doesn't, you know, I mean, I've talked to ag and sperm donor-conceived children as well, and they all feel the same way like I do. Adopties feel the same way that I do. I unfortunately don't speak to people that have been born via surrogacy. I have a hard time finding people that are born via surrogacy, probably because people are too afraid to speak out. Like I said, we have a very big price tag on our heads, and it's kind of like if we go against,

for our parents, we are alienated. And that's what it costs me, at least. You've been alienated? Yeah, yeah. So your parents, after you started talking about this, they won't talk to you anymore? No. No, no, no. We're on very, we're not on good terms, unfortunately.

I have nothing against them. I don't blame them for using the system of surrogacy because it was just out there. like I said, handed out on a silver platter and they just took it. But they are,

yeah, they're bothered by the fact that I'm talking, that I'm saying out loud that this is, this is bad. But I feel like I have every right to say it's bad.

I mean, I have lived through with these traumas. It doesn't make them bad parents. It just means that I lived traumas and traumatic, like I live with a trauma of abandonment all my life because of the way I was born.

It's just the way it is. Do you know why they decided to seek out a surrogate? Yeah, I do. My parents, they had a very, very successful business. They worked very long hours, whenever they, they worked very, they worked a lot. And they didn't start, I mean, they just kept working. And I think they prioritized their business, rather. building a family. So when it was time for them to build a family and that my father was

like okay to build a family, it was a little too late. And my mother had had problems, health issues, so she couldn't conceive a child. And so they seeked out surrogacy. My mother was 48 when they started seeking out surrogacy. Wow. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And what do you say to people who say, well, you only feel that way because the gestational carrier for you was also your biological mother? But in a lot of cases of surrogacy that we see, it is the biological child of the couple that's renting the womb of the surrogate. So it's the biological egg. It's the biological sperm. They are just implanting this embryo into the surrogate.

What do you say to that? Is that still a form of surrogacy that you oppose? Of course. Every surrogacy is a bad surrogacy to me. This child that's in the womb that's connecting with its mother because she will be the birth mother in every single case. This baby is connecting with his mother for nine months. He's eating what she's eating. He's feeling what she's feeling.

He's just living every single day with her. And he's heard. and she's his. So when he's going to come out of that womb, he's going to be looking for her. And if she's not there, that trauma of abandonment will still be there. So in 100% of cases,

you will cause the trauma of abandonment. That's what it is. I mean, the baby is not going to be like, okay, she's not my biological mother. Wait, hold on, let me go and check it. She's my ball. No. The newborn doesn't care.

he's going to search for the one that he listened to for nine months. That's what it is. But, I mean, even if it doesn't matter if they're biologically related or not. Yeah. Has no difference. It's just crazy how we understand this when it comes to kittens and puppies and not babies. Exactly. Like we force people to keep kittens and puppies with their mothers for two months or three.

three months after they are born. But with surrogacy, we don't even leave little baby humans with their mothers for two to three months after they're born. No, we just rip them away from their mothers at birth. How is this even, how is this imaginable? I'm still, I'm still wrapping my head around how people find this normal just to have children. Gosh. Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, I just feel like it's not human, at least. Yeah, we just had, you know, the conservative like commentator class on Twitter was having a big debate about this because there's a conservative commentator. He and his, you know, male partner just, you know, welcomed their baby via egg selling and surrogacy. And you have all of these people who are applauding this. They're excited about it because really most people have not thought. about surrogacy. They haven't thought about reproductive technology. They haven't thought about the ethics of the reproductive industry. They've not thought beyond yay babies because it's really uncomfortable, as you know, and unpopular to think beyond that and especially to speak beyond that.

And so people like me, and I'm sure people like you too, were called bigots, we're called hateful, we're called cruel, when really it's the opposite. Like we have the common sense, the logical, and the humane position that children are not to be bought and that wombs are not to be rented and that eggs are not to be sold. Like to me, like these are so obvious and like fundamental positions. And yet, I mean, I'm routinely called radical and extreme. And I'm sure you are too. I am. I'm all the time every day on TikTok, on social media. It's, but I don't, I don't really care because I think we have to educate people to what surrogacy is. People have no knowledge on what surrogacy really is. And that is what you are saying, buying children, selling children,

renting rooms, we're like human trafficking. And everyone's like, yay, human trafficking. It makes no sense to me either. Surrogacy is just separating a child from its mother at birth, where they're not they're biologically linked or not, it doesn't make a difference because the fetus will link with its mother from four or nine months. We deprive these children from knowing their parentage. So in all cases, they're going to lose the woman, their mother that built them at that end, that birthed them. So that's going to harm all of these children and traumatize all of these children and surrogacy is also paying a woman to use her room as an incubator for a certain amount of time and yeah we're we're this is this is ridiculous so how is this how is this normal for people

and yeah i keep saying this on tic-tok on my ticot um in france but uh but i keep getting these messages like oh wait what about homosexual parents well no i'm against surrogacy for everyone not just for homosexual parents or heterosexual parents. I'm just against the whole entire ordeal for everyone, everyone. Yeah, me too. What are the surrogacy laws in France? It's, we're not allowed. You're not allowed to do surrogacy,

but, I mean, they always find ways to go around laws here in France. Yeah, there are ways to go around the laws, but it's not allowed. In Italy, there's. going to penalize it actually. Yeah, which I love. And you know, it's so funny, I find it also with a lot of different policies in America that, you know, the progressives here who are pro-surrogacy and things like that, they will point to people like us, like, you know, conservatives like me and say, oh, my gosh, you're so extreme. You're like the Taliban. That's so crazy. And they view America as so insanely

conservative when really like if you look at Europe surrogacy and the reproductive industry is a lot more regulated there. I mean, we're like the wild wild west over here when it comes to embryos on ice and reproductive technology. That's why so many people either go through like the third world countries where these poor women are trying to make money as surrogates, which oh my gosh, yes, human trafficking, but also they go through America, I guess like your family did because it is so liberal and so unregulated here. Like, it's really, that's the, if you want to close on an extreme, America is extreme when it comes to this. Yeah, I do find so. And I've made some research. Apparently, you don't have, like there's no regulations, apart from New York, apparently anyone can open an

agency here in the United States to like a surrogate agency. I think that that's what it, I mean, I made some research about it. And apparently, yeah, anyone can open a surrogate agency in the United States, which I found crazy because they're dealing with humans. They're trafficking humans and anyone can open like I can open an agency if I want to in, I don't know, in Florida, which is crazy, crazy to me, crazy. Yep. Yep. It really is. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah, but I don't think you're, I don't think it's a political thing. You know, we're talking humans. We're talking babies. We're talking women. We're talking, it's not, this shouldn't be a political.

thing. It shouldn't be a conservative thing or a progressive thing. It just should be normal. It just should be in people's minds that we don't buy children. Yeah. Dot. We do not use women as incubators. Dot. There's no political aspect to this, at least to me. Yeah. It shouldn't be. I mean, as you probably know in the United States, we're not only extremely political, but are differing political factions have very fundamental moral differences. So how we view human beings is really different. Now, that's not to say all Republicans think one way, all Democrats think one way. I'm not saying that at all. But you will find more on the progressive side kind of pushing this idea of the family diversity theory that no matter how a child is conceived or created or raised,

as long as they have someone in their life who loves them, and that's totally fine. It's the nature versus nurture debate, whereas we over here, who believe in natural law and believe that we're made in the image of God, we believe there is a purpose and an intention behind how we are made, how we are created, how we're raised, that all of that is really important. And so there are some fundamental differences that do unfortunately manifest themselves in political differences in the United States. So I agree with you. It shouldn't be political, but because of where we are politically in the United States, it has become so. But look at me. I just, let's take me as an example. I was born by surrogacy, whatever,

32 years ago. I now have like, I kind of live 32 years so I can give you my perspective of how I lived my life. My parents loved me. They did what they could. Yeah. They educated me. They offered me an extremely good education. I mean, I had, everything I wanted. My parents had money. I, I mean, I lived a good life, financially speaking. However, there was not that bond. And even though they loved me, that love was not enough. It wasn't enough because I still developed tendencies to drugs, to alcohol. I, I mean, I, it's, it's just how it is. So love doesn't suffice. Love isn't. Love isn't. enough that's it's um you i mean it's ridiculous to think that way yeah yeah um well i know that we

have to let you go there are so many other questions that i that i wanted to ask you the the last thing that i want to ask is i'm just curious do you have like do you consider yourself a christian do you have a faith no i don't actually i have no faith i have faith in humanity that's what i I always say I have faith in humanity. I think that we can abolish surrogacy worldwide. I will be fighting this cause for as long as I am here on earth. So, no, I don't have faith, but I mean, I respect anyone who does. Yeah.

And, but no, I'm not, I do not, I'm not a Christian. I'm, I'm just, I'm actually atheist. Atheist. Well, I just, I mean, and you can, you can react to this how you will, because I know we have to close out. But as I'm listening to your story and the feelings of abandonment that a lot of people have had, but specifically people who have been abandoned by parents, like, I just wanted you to know that I believe that you are made by a God who cares for you and loves you and made your DNA with purpose and that you have incredible value, not just because you're a huge. human, but also because you have a soul that is going to live forever. And I just, when I hear you talk, I'm like, gosh, she needs to know that there is a God who created her and who loves her and who sent Jesus to die for her. And that is the only place I believe that we find purpose and belonging

ultimately. So I'm so thankful though, whether you believe in him or not, I think that he is using you and using your courage and using your voice and using your suffering for something really redemptive and good. And that's what God does. He takes broken things and he redeems them for a greater purpose. And whether you believe that you're being used by him, that's what I see. So I just wanted to tell you that, but I also wanted to thank you for being courageous because you didn't have to take this stand yet you are. And you're speaking up for the most vulnerable. And so thank you so much. I will be absolutely cheering you on. And thank you. And I just want to, I mean, I just want to finish with this sentence, just for the people that are listening to me. And I want to, I want this message to be clear and clear as possible. There is no such thing as a good surrogacy. No surrogacy is good. There is no justification for forcing a child to be born in order to be seen.

separated from its biological mother or non-biological mother. And there is no justification for using a woman as an incubator. And that is my message that I want to spread. And I hope it will be listened to. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much. We're going to share this far and wide. Yes. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you. Bye. Hey, this is Steve Deist. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral. spiritual and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles,

faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch the Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen And wherever you get podcasts, I hope you'll join us.