Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 924 | Is Busyness Ever Glorifying to God? | Guest: Dr. James Spencer

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Starting point is 00:00:40 Whatever consumes us controls us. That is certainly true about technology. Technology is always vying for our attention in addition to the million other responsibilities that we have in a day. However, Christians are supposed to live differently. We are supposed to have a different focus, different. priorities. We are supposed to be resting in the presence of Christ and drawing strength from his word. It's very difficult to do that, though, when our mind and heart are pulled in so many different directions. Here today is Dr. James Spencer, and he wrote the book, Christian

Starting point is 00:01:16 Resistance, learning to defy the world and follow Christ. It's about resisting the urge to always be distracted, to always be in a hurry, to always be busy, and to simply rest in the presence of God and the strength that we can draw from doing that. He's got a lot of biblical insight for us, but also a lot of practical tips that I know that you're really going to gain encouragement from. This episode is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. Go to Go to Good Ranchers.com. Use promo code Alley. Check out that's good ranchers.com code Alley. Dr. Spencer, thanks so much for joining us. Before we get started, can you just tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?

Starting point is 00:02:06 Yeah, my name's James Spencer. I currently serve as president of the D.L. Moody Center, which is an independent nonprofit organization out in Northfield, Massachusetts. And we're dedicated to preserving some of the historic properties and letters and papers of and about D.L. Moody. D.O. Moody actually lived most of his life in Northfield, Massachusetts. And there are several older historic buildings, including where he was born, where he lived when he moved from Chicago. back to Northfield and then a 2,300 seat auditorium that he built to host summer conferences and various sort of Bible study gatherings on that Northfield campus. And so we're in the process of preserving those and opening them to the public. And our digital archives projects actually already up on our website. So we do all those things. We also run a campaign called Goddark Shine Bright that encourages Christians to hop off social media for several days and really focus in on God's word and prayer, sort of disconnect from stories that are denying God and reconnect with the stories that affirm him. And so we're involved in a lot of

Starting point is 00:03:20 discipleship ministry as well as just preserving the property and legacy of DeL Moody. Yes. And in case people don't know, D.L. Moody, 19th century evangelist and who really emphasized discipleship and pioneered discipleship in a lot of ways for the modern turrets. church. So just in case people didn't know that. But the project of the D.L. Moody Center, the Go Dark, Shine Bright. There's a connection from that to your book. And your book is called Christian Resistance, learning to defy the world and follow Christ. And a big part of your book is about distraction. The world is constantly distracting us. And something that I always think of when I think of distraction is that quote in and screw tape letters that I'll butcher it,

Starting point is 00:04:07 but basically that the demons are talking about making the entire world noise. So we are constantly distracted from the things that matter. So tell us a little bit about that why you wrote this book and why you decided to write about distraction. Yeah. When we first started the Go Dark Shine Bright campaign, And what we were really trying to solve was how do we get God's people to read scriptures and engage in prayer more often? And so what we ultimately came to was this idea that prayer and Bible study are really in competition with scrolling on social media, shopping on Amazon, you know, surfing the Internet, all those kind of things. And so what we decided was that we needed to sort of get people to stop doing those things, not completely, but for a time. We're not really anti-technology, but we do recognize that oftentimes we can get a little bit too inundated with the information that's coming through all those different channels. And so what we encourage people to do was just to take a fast, essentially, from social media.

Starting point is 00:05:14 This year, it's actually we're broadening it out to any media that you may feel is hindering you from spending time with God's work. And as they take that break, we ask them to read through the scriptures, do have a specific prayer time. And then ultimately, the shine bright aspect of the project is going back out onto social media or into your networks, your social networks, whether they're digital or in person. And really proclaiming Christ by explaining to people how he met you as you gave these things up and really started to re-engage with his word. And so distraction has become something of a topic that I've been thinking about since we started that program. As you start to look around the world, what you really see is not just on digital or social media, but almost everywhere. We're just busy with the urgencies of the day.

Starting point is 00:06:10 And there are a lot of good things that can distract us. And so I eventually found my way to the story of Mary and Martha. And, you know, when you look at what Martha is doing as she is caring for Jesus in her home, she doesn't seem to be doing anything particularly bad. She's just busying herself with, busying herself with the expectations of the day, making sure that the hospitality is cared for, making sure that things are getting done. And she becomes frustrated because Mary's not helping her. But it's the one time in scripture where you really see the word distracted used. And Jesus, you know, it basically says she's distracted with all these other things. But when she comes to Jesus, he says, no, Mary's chosen a good portion and it will not be taken from her.

Starting point is 00:06:56 And so I think there's something deep in this that there are many things that can pull us away from the feet of Jesus. There are many things that can distract us from following him and really moving forward on our walk with Christ. And so we need to resist those things. and really focus in on imitating Christ and making sure that our lives are conformed as much as possible and increasingly so to his image. Yes. And I just want to read a portion of that passage for people who may be unfamiliar or you just need a refresher. And that is Luke 1038 through 42.

Starting point is 00:07:36 I might not read the entire thing. But now as they went on their way, Jesus entered a village. And a woman named Martha welcomed him into her house. and she had a sister called Mary who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to his teaching. But Martha was distracted with much serving. And she went up to him and said, Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? She's like so incredulous about this. Tell her then to help me.

Starting point is 00:07:58 But the Lord answered her, Martha, Martha, which I just read is so compassionate and understanding. You are anxious and troubled about many things, but one thing is necessary. Mary has chosen the good portion, which will not be taken from her. So as you mentioned so well, Martha is not doing something in itself that is bad. In fact, she probably has the right heart or maybe correct intentions and that she's thinking, well, I've got the Lord here. I mean, I've got Jesus here. I want to do everything I can to serve him. And you said we can be distracted by good things sometimes. Obviously service is good. Working hard is good. Doing the things that God has called us to is good. So how do we distinguish reading this passage and even just looking at our

Starting point is 00:08:42 our lives. Like what is a good godly, I don't even want to call it distraction, I guess form of busyness and action versus something that is actually distracting us from what God has called us to do and resting in the Lord? Yeah, I think we have to think about in terms of what time we're actually spending with Jesus as opposed to, you know, is what we're doing good or bad, right? this passage almost gives us a better litmus test to gauge some of our activities. And when those activities begin to distract us or pull us away from really following Jesus, when we're, here's the way I think of it. When I find myself on autopilot, where I'm really not engaging in prayer, discerning the Holy Spirit, or thinking about whether or not what I'm doing is what God would

Starting point is 00:09:33 have me do. You know, if I'm not asking the question, I love this quote from Yergen Moulton, and he talks about sin as being unwilling to be what God requires. And so when I'm not willing to be what God requires, and I'm not really seeking that part out, and I'm just running on autopilot, I'm meeting all of the expectations that people would generally put on me. I'm being generally moral. You know, I'm sort of just going with the flow of the conventions of society. And I'm not really putting any intentional thought into, am I actually following Christ at this moment? Once I go for some time like that, I find myself sort of missing the mark in a lot of ways. I'm missing opportunities for Christ to really form me and change me and push me and pull me. And so I think that's

Starting point is 00:10:28 we have to be careful not to begin running on autopilot because that suggests a level of self-sufficiency that we really don't have. And I think that's what's going on here in the Marian Martha story is that Martha is very much going about the business of the day. These are expectations that anyone who's providing hospitality would be, you know, sort of expected to do. But what she's missing is this element of centering life around Jesus. And so the way, one of the ways that I often think about this is that God is the most relevant actor and factor in any situation. And so if we're not orienting ourselves to him, it's a good chance that we're being distracted. Our attention is being drawn away from him to other

Starting point is 00:11:17 things. And it takes, you know, I think a lot of small efforts to make sure that we are cultivating a sense of God's presence in our lives, such that in any situation now, we are really more capable or accustomed to responding to God as opposed to responding the situation. So tell me about some of the specific topics that are covered in this book. You talk about resistance, imitation, time, response, attention, coordination, preservation, discernment, effort, testimony, inclusion, and accountability. And obviously, we don't have time to go through all of them. people should go out and read your book to know what you mean by all of these things.

Starting point is 00:12:08 But let's talk about a couple of them. When you're talking about imitation and when you're talking about response, what do you mean by that in relation to distraction and focusing on the right things? So when I think about imitation, much of the imitation chapter is really rooted in the work of the gentleman named René Girard. And he suggested that our human activities are really in relation. to other humans. So in other words, we're not really pursuing objects of desire. We are seeking to emulate someone else. And so we start to pick up their desires. We start to, you know,

Starting point is 00:12:50 sort of adopt their way of thinking and their way of being in the world. And he argued that ultimately that creates a level of conflict. And so you can imagine that if, you know, you're emulating someone, you're imitating someone, and you're picking up what, you're saying, okay, I want to desire what they desire, that ultimately you're going to be in competition for what you both desire. Now, with Christ, it's a little different because as we imitate Christ and we adopt his desires, as we allow him to determine what we should care about and what we shouldn't care about, there isn't a competition there because there's no, there's an endless supply of abundance that God can provide. And so we're not competing with Christ when we imitate

Starting point is 00:13:33 him. What we are doing is we are orienting ourselves in the world in a way that we begin to see the world as Christ sees it. And so our imitation there really involves not only, you know, it doesn't involve at all, you know, walking around in sandals or, you know, wearing a, you know, Second Temple Jewish sort of garb. That's not the sort of imitation we're looking at. But what we are trying to look at is how is it that we can emulate Christ and live the sort of life that he, he lived. In many ways, it's about fulfilling one of the components of the Great Commission, which is learning to observe all that Christ's commanding, and really living that out. And so that's imitation. When we think about response, I usually go to something like

Starting point is 00:14:24 the David and Goliath narrative, or there's this fascinating narrative in First Samuel, where, you know, Saul is pursuing David trying to kill him because he knows that David, but has been anointed king of Israel. Saul goes into the cave where David and his men are hiding. David has opportunity to kill Saul and take over the throne. And despite the encouragement of David's men, David refuses to raise his hand against the Lord's anointed. And what I see in that narrative is David really focusing in on not just his situation at the moment

Starting point is 00:14:55 where Saul's been chasing him around. He's obviously in an uncomfortable situation. Now he has an opportunity to remedy that. But instead, David, instead of responding to the situation, David responds to God and says, no, I will wait for God to do this for me. This is not mine to take. It's God to give. And so as we look at response and think about how we would cultivate a sense of awe and reverence and respect for all that God is doing, as opposed to trying to enact sort of God's justice on our own. or to sort of move forward in ways that would maybe use a great place to go as Ephesians 6. You know, we do not fight against flesh and blood.

Starting point is 00:15:43 You know, we fight against the powers and principalities in the spiritual realms. Well, if we're using fleshly efforts to sort of try to change the world into our vision of what it should be, we're probably not responding to God in those moments. We're really responding to a situation we find uncomfortable. And so there's a balance there between being patient and being proactive that I think we need to think through and cultivate. And I'm guessing that's probably what you cover in the discernment chapter because I am thinking as you're talking about this, wow, this takes a lot of discernment, which I think just emphasizes your point even more of the importance of being connected to Christ and resting in Christ, sitting at his feet proverbially and hearing his teachings because that discernment is empowered by. the Holy Spirit. And whatever fills us controls us, whether we are filled with the dopamine hits that are coming from scrolling and being addicted to our phones, whether you're filled with

Starting point is 00:16:41 alcohol, whatever you are filled with is going to control you and determine the decisions that you make. Being filled with the Holy Spirit empowers you to make these kind of discerning decisions. Because it's not, it's not always as easy as black and white. Sometimes busyness is glorifying to God. sometimes it is just sitting and resting, but it does. It takes a lot of honest analysis of the motivations of your heart, the outcomes that you are trying to produce and really what God is calling you to in that moment. It's very easy for all of us. And this is a large portion of this audience is moms. It's very easy for all of us to call our sinful busyness by different things, whether we call it service or whether we just excuse it because, well, we're moms. Of course,

Starting point is 00:17:30 we're just going to be busy all the time. Of course, we're not going to be able to read our Bibles. Of course we're not going to be able to pray. That's just the season of life that I'm in. And I'm not trying to diminish the real busyness that comes with the responsibility of parenthood. But the reality is that we are all called, just as Mary and Martha were called in that passage, we are all called to prioritize rest, to prioritize connection. And some of the busyness that we have in our lives is not as necessary as I think we think that it is and we tell ourselves it is, right? Yeah, I think that's absolutely right.

Starting point is 00:18:01 I think usually when I'm counseling people on how to go about doing this, I say two things. Number one, it doesn't take big efforts. It takes consistent efforts over time. I do a lot of weight training. And so, you know, it's consistency and progressive overload. You know, if you're bench pressing 225 pounds and you need to add five pounds to the barbell, You know, there are certain places people in gym who will kind of laugh at that five pounds. But I can guarantee if you continue adding five pounds to the barbell, there's a point at which that five pounds is going to make the difference.

Starting point is 00:18:32 Right. And so it's about small, incremental, consistent changes and ways of focusing in our daily life. D.L. Moody has a great quote and sort of like you quoting C.S. Lewis, I'm going to butcher it. But he says, you know, many people miss out on working in God's kingdom and really being productive. parts of God's kingdom because they're so focused on doing great things as opposed to doing little things. And so what I encourage people is not to view this as this huge monumental task that, you know, you may or may not feel capable of doing, but to hone in on these small little

Starting point is 00:19:08 practices. And as we practice, as we obey in the small ways and we allow God to sort of enter our lives and prove himself to us, sort of that idea of Malachi 310, you know, God calls the Israelites to test him through obedience. And as we do that in those little ways across time, I think God shows up. The other thing I usually recommend to people is just keeping in mind, you know, 1 John 1-9, confession is a part of our everyday lives as Christians. We're going to get this wrong, and that's okay.

Starting point is 00:19:40 The point is not getting it right every time. The point is recognizing when we get it wrong, confessing that and growing from it. And so luckily, God gives us the grace to miss them. mark and to recalibrate and to reorient ourselves so that we are more focused on him. But we need to be cognizant of these things. And I think that's the main reason I chose to write on the topics that I did in the book is that I wanted to provide some broad frameworks for people to begin thinking through that they might not get another devotional literature.

Starting point is 00:20:15 And so that's really what these chapters are designed to be is to help people think through those sort of non, those topics that aren't as regularly treated in Christian circles. Something that stands out to me about that passage too is just Jesus is, as you said, his grace for Martha, his kind of understanding of where she's coming from and that he sees underneath her service what's going on in her heart and mind that you are troubled and that you are anxious. And so he sees that really the motivation behind these things isn't so much this kind of like just peaceful, joyful worship that she's doing through acts of service. But it's actually, she's worried. Like she's wound up in those moments. And so you see that God is trying to

Starting point is 00:21:16 relax her and release her from those unnecessary obligations for her good. It's not just that we're trying to live this stoic Luddite life as Christians that we can't engage in any kind of technology or any modern form of fun. He releases us from the things that burden us. I mean, Jesus' is yoke is easy. His burden is light. And so releasing distractions is actually like a gracious gift that God gives us that I know for myself. I don't always take that gift. For some reason, it's like I want to carry this heavy burden of the distractions that I have in my life. I guess it's just an addiction. Yeah, and I think, you know, I struggled with a lot of this whenever I work.

Starting point is 00:22:01 And in many ways, I am a workaholic. Yeah. I still, you know, sort of struggle with it and making sure that I balance or, you know, create that sort of work-life balance that everybody talks about, which I think is sort of like a unicorn. It's fictional. Yeah. But the reality is I do, I think I tend to take a lot more on my.

Starting point is 00:22:23 myself and I probably need to. And I would say through the development of the Goddard Shinebry campaign, through the writing of this book and various other things, what I've come to realize is that I can have a great deal more peace and satisfaction in my life and still be as productive as I ever was without feeling that pressure and stress and urgency. And like you said, the deep weight that sort of comes from taking it all on me. And so I think as I've allowed myself to say, you know, God has gifted me with a certain capacity. But the reality is that that capacity, while I should exercise it, it isn't the end all, be all of who I am. And I need to be tying in with God because he can do far greater things through my weakness in, in a

Starting point is 00:23:18 a lot of ways than they can through my strength. Yeah. And so there's a balance there that we have to, and I don't think it's a, I don't think it's an either or. I think it's a both hand. But I think the unfortunate part is we usually emphasize the part where we say, well, God's given me these gifts. I have to use them.

Starting point is 00:23:37 And we ignore more often than not these areas, or at least I did, these areas where I was weak, but God could use me through my weakness. I didn't want that to happen. I wanted to always be operating out of my strength. And I think that kept me sort of in a frenzy in this sort of relentless, unrestful frenzy. Whereas now I'm a much more, I've found a much more calm place to be productive in the kingdom and a much more connected place to understand who Christ is and what my relationship with him should really be doing in me. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues face.

Starting point is 00:24:18 our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

Starting point is 00:24:42 If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day Show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Transforming me. Tell us a little bit more about the practical steps that you take. You mentioned that you're a workaholic like a lot of us are. And so I appreciate that this is like a real everyday struggle for you.

Starting point is 00:25:19 I'm sure as you used the metaphor of weightlifting, it's gotten better and better. But I imagine when you first kind of started thinking through this, it wasn't. wasn't very easy and you had to just take some very tangible steps to say, okay, this is how I'm going to eliminate this needless distraction of my life. Tell us just a little bit, maybe, I don't know, two or three things that all of us can do starting today to help us. Yeah, absolutely. I think number one, you sort of have to take a step back, look at your life and recognize what you're using as a crutch. So for me, my crutch was academics. Um, studying the Bible is something that I really love and enjoy, and it's obviously a good thing.

Starting point is 00:26:03 But I was using it as a crutch to say, see, I'm in good shape, right? I'm in good spiritual shape because I read my Bible all the time. I'm always writing or researching something. And so I'm in good shape. I wasn't in good shape, right? I was using my, I was using that Bible study is an excuse not to do other things. And so part of what I needed to do was sort of rightly diagnosed myself. And so I started, once I realized, you know, hey, I'm using this as a crutch, what I started to do was take more time out to pray.

Starting point is 00:26:34 And I would basically set a minimum limit for myself every day that I was going to pray. And it wasn't very big at first. It was like, you know, five to ten minutes, right? I'm always going to pray ten minutes a day. And that may not seem like much, but when you go from basically zero to ten, it's a lot. Yeah. And so, you know, I had to set those little small benchmarks for myself just so that I got it in every day. And I was opening that door to God using those moments where I was saying, okay, 10 minutes of prayer is better, is me spending my time better than I could and doing anything else?

Starting point is 00:27:12 So I would say set small little benchmarks as you go. That would be one of my pieces of advice. And then the other piece of advice I would give that I found really helped me was changing the cadence of my day. So I recently started doing getting up earlier. And then I'll set boundaries, specific boundaries on when I'm done to working. And so last night I shut, I work at home, which is even more challenging. Yes, yes. Yeah, but usually, you know, I'll get.

Starting point is 00:27:49 up at 5.30 in the morning. I'll do a workout. I'll work from 6.30 to about 7.30 when I have to take my kids to school and, you know, different things like that. And then I'll come back and work till around 3.30 or 4 in the afternoon. And then I'm done. Labtop stays in my office. And I try to keep my phone out of my hands after 4 o'clock. And so, you know, there are those kind of things that I think are really important to set boundaries for yourself and to begin thinking that, you know, any email I get after 4 o'clock, it's probably not so important that I can't wait to answer it tomorrow. Yeah. You know, it's just, it's sort of that mindset shift and a discipline to reinforce it. And so I'd

Starting point is 00:28:38 encourage folks to do that. I think the last thing I'd say is, you know, getting other people involved. My family is really supportive about the cadence of life that I'm setting for myself, and I'm supportive of the cadence of life that they set for themselves. And so I think having that sort of community and encouragement around us is important. I usually tell the story. I lost 50 pounds in 2018. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And you don't do that without help. Yeah. There have been a lot of things that I've done in my life that I couldn't have done without help. finishing my PhD was one of them, you know, without my wife helping me along and really providing a good social system for me while I was doing that, I would have never finished.

Starting point is 00:29:24 I think the same was losing the 50 pounds. And so you have to set your environment up for success and you have to have that social structure and system to really help you do these things. And so that would be my encouragement is to find that community and social structure that's really going to help you through. I love the comparison that you've made a couple times with physical fitness. Even when you're talking about setting up your environment for success, if you're trying to lose weight and your counters are aligned with junk food or if you're an alcoholic, you're trying to give up alcohol and you're constantly walking into a bar, you're seeing handles of liquor, whatever it is, that's going to make it a lot more difficult. And I think sometimes we don't think about that about our tech devices that, okay, if we don't want to be distracted, then walking around.

Starting point is 00:30:21 with our email, with our social media, which is something I do. So I'm talking to myself, is probably not going to set us up for success when it comes to those things. And so we have to, as you mentioned earlier, recognize our weaknesses and set up safeguards and have other people as well help us set up those safeguards so we can remain focused on the things we need to be focused on. Yeah, I mean, there's so many little things that we can do. They're just, there's really no effort. I mean, I don't use my phone as an alarm clock anymore. Yeah. I have an old school analog alarm clock that goes off in the morning if I feel like I need to wake up and my phone's charging in another room.

Starting point is 00:31:00 Yeah. And so, you know, those kind of little things can really be impactful. And one of the ones that I found out recently is we were designing the Go Darkshine Bright program this year is, you know, prolonged, consistent use of any screen after dark can is now been correlated with. increased levels of depression. Yeah, I believe that. And it's related to, yeah, I mean, it's just related to your brain, not knowing light from dark. And so these are like subtle ways that we're not even necessarily trying to hinder our discipleship, but we may very well be.

Starting point is 00:31:36 And so we just have to be cognizant of these things. Yeah, there's definitely a spiritual metaphor to be explored there when you don't know the difference between light and dark. All kinds of confusion and chaos can be, can show up in your life. Well, thank you so much. This has been so insightful, very encouraging. And your book, again, is called Christian Resistance, learning to defy the world and follow Christ.

Starting point is 00:31:59 People can get it wherever books are sold. I'm guessing it's probably on Christianbooks.com. Maybe it's your local bookstore as well. And I'm sure on all the places where books are sold. And where can people find out more about Go Dark, Shine Bright, and the D.L. Moody Center. So they can go directly to Go, dark shine bright.org and sign up for the campaign this year. We've got over 12,000 so far signed up,

Starting point is 00:32:27 which has been great. All they have to do is put their email in and then they'll download a guide with this time we formatted as 20 questions about Christianity and digital technology and also gave 10 days worth of devotionals to kind of last people through their social media fast. So go dark, shine bright.org to do that. And I should, say that all the profits from the book sales actually go to supporting our ministry. And so when they purchase Christian resistance, all of that goes to supporting the Godark Shine Bright program and in the Deon Moody Center more general. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to come on, Dr. Spencer. No problem. Thanks for having me.

Starting point is 00:33:22 Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual. They're moral, spiritual. and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

Starting point is 00:33:50 If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this Steve Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen. wherever you get podcasts, I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 924 | Is Busyness Ever Glorifying to God? | Guest: Dr. James Spencer

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.