Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 943 | Alistair Begg Doubles Down on Gay Wedding Advice

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

Starting point is 00:00:19 We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Esteemed pastor Alistair Begg doubles down on his counsel to Christians to attend same-sex weddings. As you can imagine, there's been a lot of backlash to this. We are going to cover it all today on this episode of Relatable, which is brought to you by our friends at Good Ranchers. go to goodrangers.com. Use code alley at checkout. That's goodrangers.com code alley.

Starting point is 00:01:01 Hey guys, welcome to relatable. Happy Wednesday. Hope everyone is having a wonderful week so far. Man, oh man, so much to talk about, especially since Taylor Swift took our entire episode yesterday. We've got a lot left over that we need to discuss some new things to. Before we get into it, just a reminder, alleymerch.com, we've got our Valentine's Day merch. Merch. It's really just any time of the year, of course, that you can wear this because it is always true that self-love won't save you. That's what our new merch says. We've got our two crew knacks and red and black, four different colors of T-shirts. Their comfort colors, by the way, I suggest, well, I guess it just depends on who you are, but I like wearing oversized. So I like large or extra large in these, just FYI as a reference. And then we've got our totes and we've got our stickers all with the same cute design. So check that out, Alliemerge.com. Okay. Let's get into it. Pastor Alastair Begg is in a controversy over his comments about attending same-sex weddings. Now, this is surprising.

Starting point is 00:02:17 This is a surprising conflict to be talking about because typically when we are discussing comments, progressive comments being made by those who are Christians, those who profess to be Christians, we are talking about people that we kind of expect to be on the, the fence about these things, that we anticipate having a more quote-unquote nuanced caveated take on these biblical moral and even what some people would call culture war issues. This comes as a shock. If you don't know who Alistairbag is, he is a pastor, an author. He is the senior pastor at Parkside Church in Cleveland. You will hear when we play a little video, his accent, he is Scottish and he has been a prominent name in the American Reformed Protestant space for a long time.

Starting point is 00:03:15 And I have appreciated his work. I've done at least one devotional from him. I believe it was an Advent study. And I've read other things that he's written. I've listened to him several times. And I have appreciated so much of what he said. And I think everyone who is reformed, would probably say that they have benefited in one way or another from the work of Alistair Begg.

Starting point is 00:03:41 And so it came as a shock when he recently said on a podcast that Christians should attend a same-sex wedding, that we should go, that we should celebrate, that we should give the couple a gift, and in this way we are basically sharing the gospel to them and showing Christ to them. Now, I have answered this question on this podcast before in a Q&A episode because this is a question I get a lot. Should Christians attend a gay wedding? And as I will explain more thoroughly in a few minutes after we go through what happened here, my answer is no. And so you've got Alistair Begg saying, yes, you should. And let's look at his reasoning behind that. And then what the response has been to that and then what his response to the response was. So he is, as I said, senior pastor, Parkside Church in Cleveland. He also has a radio ministry called Truth for Life. It's carried by nearly 1,800 radio stations nationwide. He's been in pastoral ministry since 1975.

Starting point is 00:04:49 He became the senior pastor at Parkside in 1983. And the comments that he made that are at the center of this controversy were made in a podcast for his ministry, Truth for Life. And they were made almost three months ago, but they've only now started circulating again on social media. And that is what caused the backlash. So here's what he said in the September 1st, 2023 episode, which was focused on his latest book,

Starting point is 00:05:19 which is called The Christian Manifesto. So someone was interviewing him, and they asked, beg this. As you think about this book and your prayer for this book, what do you hope will be different? How do you hope people will be different after they have read this book and they've meditated on this sermon? And so he answers that. And then he gives a specific example of, I guess, what he hopes people are getting from it as they try to apply Christian principles to how they live their life. He says, and in very specific areas, this comes across, I mean, you and I know

Starting point is 00:05:55 that we field questions all the time that go along the lines of. My grandson is about to be married to transgender person and I don't know what to do about this and I'm calling to ask you to tell me what to do which is a huge responsibility he says and he said that his response would be okay as long as he knows that this family member knows where you stand as far as your faith goes then I suggest that you do go to the ceremony and I suggest that you buy them a gift and he explains that the person he was talking to was really taken aback by his answer then he says here's the thing. Your love for them, this couple that's getting married, may catch them off guard, but your absence will simply reinforce the fact that they said, these people are what I always thought,

Starting point is 00:06:41 judgmental, critical, unprepared to countenance anything. He says, it's a fine line, isn't it? It really is. And people need to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. But I think we're going to take that risk. We're going to have to take that risk a lot more if we want to build bridges into hearts and lives of those who don't understand Jesus and don't understand that he is king. So people were taken aback by this after they saw this clip circulating on social media. And really what I saw from a lot of the Reformed Christians that I follow, pastors, theologians, authors, just commentators, was, wow, I really disagree with this, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. considering that he has been very clear in his sermons and in his work about the reality of sin, about the need for holiness, the need for repentance, sexual immorality of all forms,

Starting point is 00:07:39 being a sin that people have to repent of. We're going to give him the benefit of the doubt. This commentary, this conversation about these comments has been going on for a while now. I didn't weigh in. And the reason I didn't was because I want to. about his use of words here and if he meant what everyone assumed that he meant. Everyone assumed that he meant that Christian should attend a gay wedding. And yet he said a transgender person. He didn't necessarily say a gay wedding. Now maybe I missed some context where he specifically said, yeah, he's talking about a gay wedding so called, but he said transgender person. And so I thought, okay, maybe he's not talking about a union of a man and a man and a woman and a woman. Maybe he is talking about a man and a woman, but one of the people is trying to pretend to be

Starting point is 00:08:38 the opposite sex, which of course we know is actually impossible. And so maybe there is some discussion and debate to be had whether or not it would be right to attend that kind of wedding because you've got someone who is, yes, in active sin, but the wedding of a man and a woman, an actual man and actual woman, no matter what they identify as, like, okay, that would actually be a marriage. And so, of course, we don't affirm that person's confusion or the deceit that they're displaying about their gender, but is it possible for a Christian to faithfully attend that wedding? So I thought that, okay, people are just assuming that he met gay wedding,

Starting point is 00:09:20 but maybe there are some actual nuances there because he's talking about transatlantician. genderism. So I didn't weigh in because I thought, okay, I bet he's going to come back and he's going to clarify what he actually meant by that. And so I just kind of stepped back and I waited to see what he said. And he did actually respond to a lot of the, a lot of the critics because this ended up kind of blowing up. It wasn't just that people were criticizing him or disagreeing with him. And all the criticism and disagreement I saw was very respectful. But it turned to into a kind of a big deal. American Family Radio, which has been playing his sermons and distributing the work of his ministry for a while, they made the decision that after 10 years of amplifying

Starting point is 00:10:14 his message that they would no longer air his Truth for Life program. So American Family Radio, because of his comments about attending same-sex marriage, they decided to cut ties with him. They said it has come to our attention that Pastor Begg made statements that were on Biblical failed to line up with the decades of faithful adherence to scripture that listeners have come to expect from him. In essence, when the question was asked of him whether or not a family member should attend an unbiblical wedding ceremony between two homosexuals, Pastor Begg counseled Christians to attend and take a gift.

Starting point is 00:10:50 And this is what they say their stances. At American Family Association, we believe it to be an act of unfaithfulness to God to attend a ceremony that celebrates in a union outside of the biblical model of marriage as being between one man and one woman. Members of our leadership team held a call with Alistair Begg's team and were unsuccessful in convincing them of his error. As a result of this, we will no longer air Pastor Alistair Begg's Truth for Life program. So I don't know much about American Family Radio, but I know it takes a lot. a lot of strength to take a stand like this, especially against someone who is popular. And it sounds like they did the best that they could to first talk to them directly and to say, hey, you know, we are giving you the benefit of the doubt. We do appreciate what you have offered the church.

Starting point is 00:11:37 We do appreciate your messages of clarity and courage that you've given us and to our listeners. But here's where we think that you're wrong. And we're going to point to scripture to try to sway you. And they say they were unsuccessful in doing that. And so they had to make what I'm sure was a very difficult decision. It sounds like they went about this the right way, and I happen to agree with their reasoning. If you are talking about same-sex unions, and again, I wanted to wait for the clarification from Alistairbag on that, and he did, he did give us, I guess, a form of a clarification. So let me get into that before I give you my full response. Hey, this is Steve Deast. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues

Starting point is 00:12:23 facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular.

Starting point is 00:12:43 This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, You can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Okay, so Alistair Begg responded to the criticism that he is received in a Sunday sermon. This past weekend, people are not happy about what he had to say. They're not happy about it at all.

Starting point is 00:13:18 The message was taken from Luke 15. That is the message of the prodigal son, which I'm sure almost all of you are familiar with. And the sermon was titled Compassion versus Condemnation. warned about our inclination toward Phariseeism that is alive and well within all our hearts, quote, unquote. So he is defending himself here. And while I can't play you the entirety of the sermon, I can give you a summary. And this is not me attempting to take things out of context or to put words in his mouth. I do kind of have to paraphrase it. I believe that the entire sermon is available online. Yes, the sermon audio is available online. We can link it

Starting point is 00:13:59 in the description of this episode, so you can go listen to it to yourself to make sure that I'm not taking things out of context. But in my listening of the sermon and also seeing the backlash that this sermon response has gotten, I think I'm giving you an accurate rendering of not only what he said, but also what he meant. So he defends himself saying, in that conversation with that grandmother, I was concerned about the well-being of their relationship more than anything else. Now, I think that's very telling. He was concerned about the well-being of their relationship more than anything else. Hence my counsel, don't misunderstand that in any way at all. And I will just say the BOD that I had given that maybe he wasn't talking about a same-sex wedding, a same-sex

Starting point is 00:14:45 ceremony. Well, that has gone out the window because he, he emphasizes and clarifies that, yes, that is what he meant. He never says, oh, no, I didn't mean two people of the same sex. I was talking about two people of the opposite sex, one person who is confused about their identity in the same way that a lot of people are confused about their identity in different ways. No, that's not what he says. He did mean a same sex union and a same sex wedding. He does believe that Christians should attend that because it may, from his perspective, help seal the relationship, help maintain the relationship between a believer and then this non-believing family member who is entering into this homosexual union. He says that he might not have given that answer to another person if

Starting point is 00:15:38 it had to do with another kind of situation. But in this case, with a believing grandmother, he wanted to make sure that he was helping this grandmother maintain this relationship. And he says, look, I'm not wrong on this. Basically, he said, the fact of the matter of is, I am not ready to repent over this. I don't have to. I don't have to repent over this. And he goes to Luke 15, as I said, to look at the prodigal son. He said, God is a seeking God. And the father in the story, who represents God himself, is running after the sinner. And running after his prodigal son, who had squandered his inheritance, who had been living among pigs. And he is making this point to say that,

Starting point is 00:16:23 has to be the kind of love that we emulate. And that is the support that he uses to say, yes, Christians should attend this gay wedding because we have to go after sinners in this same way. He also says that the problem with the Pharisees, or one of the problems with the Pharisees, was that they were grumbling at Jesus because of the easy way in which he hung out with sinners, that he congregated with people that the Pharisees thought were too unclean, were too much on the margins of society, had done too much wrong for Jesus to be around him or to be around them. And so he says that those who disagree with him, those who are saying, no, Christian should not attend this gay wedding, that they're like Pharisees, that they're like the older brother, the judgmental brother, the unforgiving brother. in the story of the prodigal son.

Starting point is 00:17:23 He says, you got a problem with the grandmother showing up sitting on the front row and buying a Bible for her grandchild that she hopes will become a believer. And he says, you know, if you've got a problem with that, then basically you're like the Pharisee. You are condemning. You are reviling. You are like the older brother in the prodigal son story. So here is SOT 2 where Alsterbeg is saying, look, I'm going to come down on the side of compassion here.

Starting point is 00:17:58 If I've got to go down on the side of one or the other, I'll go down on this side. I'll go down on the side of compassion with people actually accusing me of just weakness rather than go down on the site of condemnation, which closes any doors of opportunity for future engagement with. those who know exactly what we believe about the Bible and about Jesus and about so on. Okay, so this is shocking to me. There are a few things that are shocking to me. One, it was shocking to me that Alistairbeg doesn't actually engage with any of the biblically based critiques, criticism, and pushback that he received.

Starting point is 00:18:42 He basically throws all of his opposition under the bus and condemns them, ironically, with ad hominem attacks, calling someone who disagrees with you biblically a Pharisee or legalistic or an older brother or judgmental. Again, that's something that I expect from progressives that don't believe in the need for repentance and don't really believe in the authority of scripture. It is not something that I expect from someone like Alistair Begg. And just to clarify, he has been extremely consistent and extremely clear on what the Bible says about sexuality, what the Bible says about marriage, what the Bible says about gender, what the Bible says about gender roles. I have no doubt that personally he holds to a biblical sexual ethic. But here, I not only

Starting point is 00:19:33 believe that he's wrong, but what I'm very disturbed by is his unwillingness to, I think, in good faith, engage with those who have disagreed with him. And what those of us who disagree with him, believe, and I can't speak for everyone. There's been a variety of arguments that have been put out there, very eloquent, kind, articulate, biblical arguments that have been published contra pastor Begg. But the point that I think all of us have is that we do not have to affirm, and we should not affirm and celebrate sin in the hopes that affirming and celebrating what God calls wrong, what God calls destructive, what God calls harmful to a person's body and soul, in order to show them that we are loving, in order to show them the gospel, in order to show them

Starting point is 00:20:31 the love of Christ. We do not have to affirm and celebrate that which God calls sin to be ambassadors of Christ, to be the aroma of Christ. That is a very, again, progressive and worldly way of thinking of evangelism, a very worldly way of thinking of compassion. That is exactly what the world tells us compassion is. The world tells us that compassion means celebrating someone's sin, affirming someone's sin. And I know that Pastor Begg wouldn't say that this is affirmation, but it is a form of affirmation. It is to celebrate a ceremony in which what God calls abominable, what God calls unnatural, what God calls, again, destructive to a person's body, heart, mind, and soul, that is wrong. It's not only wrong, but it is completely

Starting point is 00:21:34 unnecessary to show the gospel to someone. Yes, he is right that the grandchild in this situation will be offended, that maybe all of the bad things that he's thought about Christians for a long time, that they're just judgmental and bigoted and exclusive, that all of those things might be confirmed in his mind. But there are a lot of things that could confirm that in his mind that Christians are still called to do. And I know that Pastor Begg knows this, right? I know that he knows this. I know that he knows that there are sins that we cannot affirm, that we cannot celebrate, that we cannot go along with. even if those in our lives that we are trying to reach think badly of us.

Starting point is 00:22:24 I mean, that's not the point of all of this, right? Like, that's not the point of the Christian faith to ensure that the people in our lives, whether we're related to them or not, think highly of us, or that we fit their definition of loving or their definition of compassionate or empathetic or virtuous or whatever characteristic they want us to be. That's not our goal, right? our goal is to glorify God. Our goal is to honor God. And here's what I always say. We cannot out love God. We can't out love God. 1 John 4-8. God is love. God is love. So I cannot

Starting point is 00:23:00 out compassion him. I can't out-love him. I can't out-em-him. God is love. I am not. Therefore, the most loving thing that I can do at all times is agree with God. That's the most loving thing that I can do at all times is agree with God. I will never be more loving than God by disagreeing with him or celebrating that which he calls sin. Don't you think that there is a clearer way to communicate to that grandchild that I love you so much and I want what is best for you. and of course there is so much of me that wants you to be happy, but more than anything else, I want to honor God and I want you to honor God with your life. And I know that God's ways are better. I know that they're healthier. And I want them for you. I want what is best for you. And because I

Starting point is 00:24:00 believe that God's ways are best, I can't celebrate. I can't celebrate that which God makes clear is bad for you. Wouldn't that be a better way? And of course, an unbeliever is going to hear that and think, wow, I'm angry. That's so hateful. That's wrong. That's unloving. But that's not really our responsibility.

Starting point is 00:24:25 What someone thinks about us. That's not any of our business. Our business is to go about trying to glorify God the best that we possibly can't. And he also, there's another logical fallacy in addition to ad hominem that I I think that he is employing here, and that is this false choice of the compassion that he defines as going to the wedding versus condemnation that he defines as not attending the wedding. And number one, I think that we should be condemning the sin, but I also think that we should be compassionate towards someone, knowing that as Ephesians 2 tells us, we were all once dead in our sin

Starting point is 00:25:16 apart from Christ, and it is only by grace through faith that we have been made a lot. live in him. So yes, we can have compassion for all kinds of people, for all kinds of sinners with all kinds of different forms of depravity and disobedience and all of that. Yes, we can. Does compassion require us to attend this wedding? That's what it seems like he's saying. He presents this false binary, this false choice of saying either you are compassionate and you go to the wedding or you are condemning like the Pharisee, like the older brother. And that's not actually the choice that scripture presents to us, that we can love, that we can have compassion and still agree with God and still refuse to celebrate what God calls bad for a person, what God calls

Starting point is 00:26:02 sin, what God tells us is wrong and destructive and deleterious to everyone involved. That's not something that we can go and pretend to be happy about. Can't this grandmother gift this gift the Bible to this couple without attending the wedding? I mean, I do. I do. I do. I do. wonder too. Now I'm curious what he thinks about pronouns. Like should we be calling someone by their preferred pronouns because that might help solidify a relationship with them? Should we call a man she because that's what the man wants to be called? Should we assent to that delusion? Again, something that God calls a lie. A complete deception from Satan is bad for that person's body, is bad for that person's heart and soul and bad for society at large because of what it gives us

Starting point is 00:26:54 in the way of confusion and the infringement upon rights and safety and protection of women and children. Like, are we supposed to affirm that because the well-being of that relationship is supposed to take precedence over truth, over health, over God's word? I'm just curious. I'm curious what he would say about that. I'm curious. And I do just want to point to some problems that I see with using the story of the prodigal son and using the example of Jesus congregating with sinners to try to support his case.

Starting point is 00:27:28 Again, this is something that I expect from progressives that we see from progressives all the time that is shocking to see from someone who is conservative in so many ways. Jesus didn't hang out with sinners for the sake of hanging out with them. He certainly wasn't celebrating. what they were doing. He wasn't attending ceremonies that would be celebrating their sin, right? That's something that we see a lot in society saying, well, Jesus hung out with sinners, so therefore you shouldn't say anything wrong about someone's sin. Well, Jesus wasn't just hanging out with sinners, as Pastor Bagg knows. He was calling them to repentance. That was the purpose of his

Starting point is 00:28:11 hanging out. That was the purpose of his congress. congregating with them is to call them to repentance and to show them the radical repentance-inducing love of God that the Pharisees, of course, we're not willing to do. I think that we can do that. You can even spend time with people who are in sin without going to a ceremony that is celebrating their sin, right? Like, we know how to do that. I'm sure this grandmother knows how to do that. There is something different about. a wedding. There's something different about that ceremony that I don't think that we should be affirming at all. And then the story of the prodigal son that God is a seeking God and therefore we have to go to that gay wedding, well, he wasn't celebrating his son's sin. He was celebrating that the son came back. He was celebrating that the son was running towards him. He was celebrating

Starting point is 00:29:11 that that son had repented. The ceremony that the father and the prodigal son's story that the prodigal son's story gave was because the son had repented, right? Because the son had returned. So if this were a ceremony and the story of the grandmother that celebrated repentance, celebrated something that honored God, then sure, maybe that would be a relevant story to point to, but that's not what's going on here. And so I don't really see the connection. I don't really see the support in any way. And so I'm concerned about this. I'm surprised by this. I think that this shows a really, I think it shows really poor exegesis, a very progressive understanding of these stories, an emphasis on trying to maintain relationships.

Starting point is 00:30:11 even if it means affirming sin rather than prioritizing our holiness before God. It also shows, I think, the wrong priorities when it comes to wanting someone's repentance versus just wanting their happiness and caring too much what an unbeliever thinks about us. and I was ready to hear his arguments. I was ready to hear his support for his case because, again, I respect him a lot and I respect a lot of the work that he has put forth. But I was thoroughly unconvinced. And not only that, but I was extremely disappointed by how he categorized opposition.

Starting point is 00:31:04 And the logical fallacies that he employed to basically condemn the people. that disagree with him and to try to make his faulty case. All right. So my friend Samuel say he wrote an article in response and he said, Alistair Begg should be corrected and rebuked for what he said. He said what he said is indefensible. If a Christian attends a gay wedding and the marriage officiant says, if anyone sees any reason why these two should not be wed, let them speak now or forever

Starting point is 00:31:43 hold their peace, wouldn't the Christian be obligated to speak? I think that's a really good point. And he also says, many of us need to stop acting like working. commanded to disobey God in order to win the world's approval. Well said, he says, we're not called to be like politicians. We don't win our race by gaining the world's approval. We're not supposed to worry about how the world reacts to righteousness. We should only be concerned about what unbelievers think about our sins, sins like attending a gay wedding. That's so true. I remember what Laura Perry Small said when she was on this show. She was or is a woman who at one point tried to, I

Starting point is 00:32:21 identifies the opposite sex. She took testosterone. She went by the name Jake and she lived her life presenting as a man for several years. And her conservative Christian parents refused to go along with it. She was an adult. And so there wasn't much they could do about it. But they prayed for her. They continued to trade of a gospel with her. They refused to use her new name, her new pronouns. They just weren't going to lie. This was their daughter. They loved her. They named her Laura. and that's what they were going to continue to affirm. And they continued to maintain a relationship with her. I'm sure that it was difficult.

Starting point is 00:32:55 I'm sure that Laura was closed off to them because they weren't affirming. But over time, the Holy Spirit, through their love, through their persistent truth, like chipped away at Laura's heart. And it was actually through transcribing Bible verses for her mom for a Bible study that Laura, or that her mom was leading, that the Lord really spoke to Laura. It was through the power of his word. It was through the insistence upon the Christians in Laura's life to continue telling her the truth. I'm sure the truth made her angry at times.

Starting point is 00:33:26 Do you remember when I had Daisy on this show, Daisy Strongen, and at one point, she also tried to identify as a man, and she talks about listening to this podcast, Think the Lord, by the grace of God. She heard us talk about the reality of gender, also heard us talking about the Bible and the gospel, and she said that she was trying to rebut what we were saying on this podcast in her head, and she was unable to do so. Now, I'm sure that what I was saying made her mad at one point. But she wasn't won over. First of all, she wasn't won over by me.

Starting point is 00:34:01 Of course, it was the Holy Spirit working in her heart. But she wasn't one over by someone skirting around the truth or being wishy-washy about it, or being affirming in any way and trying to hide what. God's word says in like layers and layers of caveats and nuances. You know, we told it like it was. Laura's parents told it like it was. And even though it hurts, even though it's a little offensive, even though like the prick of a heart can be painful, of course, we've all been there, by the way, as people who have all been unrepentant at one point, yes, it's offensive. Yes, it hurts. But God can work through that faithfulness. God can work through that obedience.

Starting point is 00:34:43 Here's something I always say. God doesn't need to be let off the hook. God does not need to be let off the hook for what his word says. We don't need to apologize for God. Again, we don't need to try to out-love God. Owen Strand, theologian, he also wrote an article in response. He says, I believe Begg's counsel is unsound. Christians should not attend, quote-unquote, transgender ceremonies. Again, I think, like, I don't even know. The transgender part is like odd to me that that's even part of this conversation. But again, since Begg did, I mean, he did emphasize that he does mean same-sex ceremonies. The criticism is still appropriate. Strand says the matter surveyed here is not small. It is not a tempest in an evangelical teapot. Is this serious matter indeed? Simply put, the line on Christian participation and ungodly ceremonies cannot move. Like the men at lots door in Sodom, we are urged with great intensity to cave here, cannot do so. The church cannot capitulate to the culture. In love, we must take our stand and not give the devil a foothold he so desperately craves. And I agree with that. Again, I think it is

Starting point is 00:35:56 similar to using someone's preferred pronouns. It's the same thing that a lot of professing Christians say about trying to affirm someone's gender confusion in the hopes that you can maintain a relationship. And as Samuel say, so articulately said, we should not be convinced that we have to disobey God in order to be effective Christians. I mean, think about that. That's essentially what is being said. We have to affirm sin to

Starting point is 00:36:22 try to show people that sin is wrong. What? Like, okay, what if this person who is getting married, who is in sin, reads this Bible that was given to them, or later in life starts to understand what scripture says about sexual

Starting point is 00:36:38 sin and the need for repentance, holiness, and all of that, and they look back to the grand mother and say, but gosh, my grandmother, she was the godliest person that I knew. And she was the most Christian person that I knew. And even she attended my wedding. Even she affirmed this union. So it can't be all that bad. What if that's the direction that his mind goes?

Starting point is 00:36:59 Are we still like the Pharisees? Are we still like the older brother in the story? Because of that pushback? Robert Gannon, I'm so sorry. if I mispronounced your last name. He's a professor of theology at Houston Christian University, and I thought that he gave a really good response. It's pretty long, so I won't read the whole thing.

Starting point is 00:37:23 But he makes some really good points. So he talks about what we talked about, the ad hominem attacks that I think Begg launched at his critics. And he basically says that Begg doesn't even, he doesn't even try to reckon with the arguments that were being given to him. him. He says, he attacks all those who criticize him as the product of American fundamentalism. And he says, unlike them, I come from a world in which it is possible for people to grasp the fact

Starting point is 00:37:52 there are actually nuances in things. And again, that's patronizing, that's condescending. Just because people are criticizing you doesn't mean that we don't understand nuance. We just don't think that you are biblically correct. He also says that begs ironic lack of nuance in describing Jesus' outreach to sinners is a problem. He says the failure to recognize that there is a world of difference between Jesus fraternizing with sexual sinners and exploitative tax collectors who express interest in his message on the one hand, and Jesus attending a ritual celebration, either of a tax collector's economic exploitation, or of a sexual sinner's grossly immoral in a natural sexual union, on the other hand. He says that that is a lack of understanding the nuances of the

Starting point is 00:38:36 difference between what Jesus was doing and what Christians are called to do today. He also says that Begg has a misapplication of the parable of the prodigal son, as we talked about. He says, the older son refused to attend a celebration of the younger son's penitent return from a dissolute and immoral life. That was the problem with the older brother, not that he refused to attend a ritual celebration of a permanent commitment to a dissolute and immoral life. Exactly correct. A better text that Begg might have chosen than the lost son parable, and I didn't think of this. So this is interesting. He says that it comes from Genesis 22, the binding of Isaac, where God taught Abraham not to make an idol, even of his only son, the son of the promise.

Starting point is 00:39:22 We can't make holding on to a family member who is memorializing what the writers of scripture in Jesus deemed to be egregious, the most important thing, even if we catch it in terms of staying in evangelistic contact. He also says that Begg has a very narrow perspective of this. Beg said all I was thinking was, how can I help this grandmother not lose her granddaughter? It's a little confusing because it keeps going back and forth, whether he's a granddaughter or grandson.

Starting point is 00:39:54 And what he should have been thinking is, how can I help this grandmother not offend God? How can I persuade her not to speak affirmation to behavior that can get her grandchild excluded from God's kingdom. Am I recommending that she do something that will stumble others by her actions? Good question. Leaving them to affirm such immorality. Beggs failure to use good analogical reasoning.

Starting point is 00:40:23 This, again, goes to his apparent, begs apparent lack of understanding of what these parables and biblical passages really mean. they do not mean affirming ceremonies that celebrate someone's sin. So he goes on. There are several things that he says in response to Alisturbeg. And I would like to see Alisturbeg actually respond to the criticisms that are being put his way, that are being placed in front of him. That's what I would like. Even if he doesn't change his stance, like I really wrestle with it and show us that

Starting point is 00:40:58 you're wrestling with it. show us that you are that you are actually taking seriously the biblical criticisms that people are being put before you because again, I'm just disturbed. I'm disturbed by the response that he gave, very disturbed. And I gave the benefit of the doubt, but then when I saw him double down and honestly misused scripture to do that, I was really discouraged by it. And look, I'm not saying that I have as much theological wisdom as Alistairbag. I don't think anyone's saying that. I think all of us can say that we really respect what he has contributed and obviously he's a very wise and godly person and I think everyone's just a little confounded of how he came to these conclusions

Starting point is 00:41:37 and then how he used the scriptures that he used to support those conclusions and condemn those who disagree with him. I don't know. Really interesting. And again, there's a lot of projection here. He accuses us of lacking nuance when really he lacks nuance. He accuses us of being condemning when really he is being condemning of us when we're just trying to give our positions. So I guess that he will continue to, that he will be speaking at the, at the Shepherds conference. I'll be interested to see how this kind of develops over time. I would be happy to have Pastor Begg on this podcast if he were interested in that.

Starting point is 00:42:16 And I'm sure that he could school us on a lot of things and teach us a lot of things, even if we really seriously disagree on something that I find really, really important. Okay, once again, we did not get to anything else that we wanted to talk about. There was so much to talk about here, and I want to talk about other things. We will. We will, we will cover the other things in due time. But tomorrow, we have on Krista Kohlstadt. And Krista Kohlstadt is the mother of a young girl in Montana, who has been removed from

Starting point is 00:43:01 her parents' custody because she says that she is the opposite sex and her parents being the same people that they are have said, no, you're not. You are our daughter and we are going to love you and we will get you help, but we are not going to allow you to medically transition. We're not going to. The state got involved in Republican-run Montana, by the way, and took this child from her parents' custody. Oh my goodness. So we'll be talking about that tomorrow. We'll be talking with that mother tomorrow. And we will also be talking about this horrific of these peaceful pro-lifers being finally convicted of the crime of singing hymns and praying in front of an abortion clinic. It's just insane what's going on, but we got to know. We got to

Starting point is 00:43:51 know what we are facing. Just remember, though, God is in control. He is completely sovereign. His word is unchanged. And Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And he is faithful. He is completely faithful and completely good. And as Monday's episode especially reminds us, he is always doing the work of advancing his kingdom, no matter what's going on in our political space or what's going on with disagreements between Christians and the church, that mission remains totally unhindered and unfettered. God's plan of redemption is always going off without a hitch.

Starting point is 00:44:32 And that's what we can trust in. That's what we can rejoice in. and we can simply do the next right thing in faith with excellence and for the glory of God. All right. That's all we got time for today. We will be back here tomorrow. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political.

Starting point is 00:44:56 They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. we ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.

Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 943 | Alistair Begg Doubles Down on Gay Wedding Advice

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