Relatable with Allie Beth Stuckey - Ep 944 | 'Non-Affirming' Parents vs. the State of Montana | Guest: Todd & Krista Kolstad

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Today we're joined by Todd and Krista Kolstad, Montana parents who find themselves entangled in an ongoing months-long custody battle for their 14-year-old daughter. The couple candidly open up about the challenges they faced and the heartbreak they endured after losing custody of their daughter. Montana's Child and Family Services gained custody of their daughter when they refused to affirm her newfound "gender identity" as a boy. We delve into the origin of the dispute, starting as a seemingly minor disagreement and escalating into a legal battle that no parent could anticipate. The Kolstads courageously navigate through the difficult terrain of their daughter's claims of wanting to harm herself, shedding light on the emotional toll this took on their family. Then, we give our take on the corruption within government organizations created to "protect" children and how we can fight back against cases where their actions are not for the good of children. The Kolstads' GiveSendGo: https://www.givesendgo.com/GBMG9 --- Timecodes: (00:31) The Kolstads' story (45:45) How to support (46:17) Allie's thoughts --- Links: The Kolstads' GiveSendGo: https://www.givesendgo.com/GBMG9 Reduxx: "EXCLUSIVE: Montana Family Loses Custody Of Teenage Daughter After Expressing Opposition To Her Gender Transition" https://reduxx.info/exclusive-montana-family-loses-custody-of-teenage-daughter-after-expressing-opposition-to-her-gender-transition/ ABC 15: "Montana governor defends removal of 14-year-old from parents who opposed gender identity" https://wpde.com/news/nation-world/montana-governor-defends-removal-of-14-year-old-from-parents-who-opposed-gender-identity-greg-gianforte-krista-todd-kolstad-lgbt-transgender-social-transition-custody --- Relevant Episodes: Ep 914 | Holistic Parents Targeted by the State | Guest: Emily Donlin https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-914-when-the-state-comes-for-your-child-guest-emily-donlin/id1359249098?i=1000636966590 Ep 603 | How CPS & Foster Care Corruption is Killing Kids | Guest: Naomi Schaefer Riley https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-603-how-cps-foster-care-corruption-is-killing-kids/id1359249098?i=1000558186236 Ep 798 | America’s Sacrificing Orphans on the Altar of Transgenderism | Guests: Jessica Bates & Christiana Kiefer https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-798-americas-sacrificing-orphans-on-the-altar/id1359249098?i=1000611489190 Ep 653 | Losing Custody of Your "Trans" Daughter | Guest: Jeannette Cooper https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-653-losing-custody-of-your-trans-daughter-guest/id1359249098?i=1000574808916 --- Buy Allie's book, You're Not Enough (& That's Okay): Escaping the Toxic Culture of Self-Love: https://alliebethstuckey.com/book Relatable merchandise – use promo code 'ALLIE10' for a discount: https://shop.blazemedia.com/collections/allie-stuckey

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against first principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort.

We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Todd and Krista Kohlstad are Montana parents who have lost custody of their 14-year-old daughter because they refuse to affirm her new declaration that she is a boy. They are here today to tell us their story. And then after, you'll want to stick around because I have lots of commentary analysis. some lessons, I think, that we can draw from their story. Without further ado, here are the

Kohlstads. Kohlstads, thank you so much for taking the time to join us. So a lot of people have seen your story circulating on social media that you guys are saying that the state of Montana has basically kidnapped your child, correct? Because you guys wouldn't affirm her declaration that she is the opposite gender. Correct. Yes. So take us back. Tell us how this started. Did you first start to observe your daughter's desire to present as a boy yourself? Was this something that you noticed in her social life? Not really. She had at church, she had told some people that she wanted to be called Leo and he, him. And so it was brought to our attention through the church. Okay, so someone like a youth minister or a leader at your church said, hey, just FYI, this is happening. Right.

And so at that point, and this was quite a while ago, this was what, a year and a half ago, about a year and a half ago or so. And so at that point, we had a discussion with her about, you know, why do you feel this way? Could you feel this way? Because maybe there's some past issues in your life that you're trying to resolve, which is normal. everybody has that. And it's important to note that she's been in counseling off and on throughout her young life. And so we decided, well, let's go back to counseling and let's discuss this with a counselor and have them help you through this stage. Okay. So and your daughter is 14 now. And how old was she when you were told by someone at the church that she was asking people to call her Leo? She was late 12, almost 13. So it was about a year and a half ago. Okay, wow. And I just, I imagine that was really difficult to come to terms with, that these were feelings that she was having. I mean, what was your reaction at the time? We were also receiving text messages and people in town saying the same thing that she was doing that. But our reaction was to ask her about it. And she kind of played it down. Like it wasn't a big deal.

Yeah, we were shocked, but she really downplayed it. Like, no, no, no, that's not really a big deal to me. You know, I just like doing stuff like that. So she didn't come to us hardcore and say, this is what I'm doing. This is what I want to do. She really downplayed it. And if you're able to say, you said that she was in counseling throughout her young life, can you say what she was in counseling for?

Is it related at all to gender confusion or no? No, she's really struggled with bullying since about, gosh, maybe third grade. Since about third grade, she's struggled with bullying and issues around that. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, that's so tough to deal with. So she's been in therapy or counseling because of that, just feeling excluded and I'm sure self-esteem and other things like that, right? Correct.

So that, as you know, that would lend to self-esteem, self-worth. and how you feel about yourself. And, you know, she's always just really, really struggled with fitting in at school. And she wants so bad to fit in. But she's just, she's a great kid, super, super smart. But she's the kid that's always been in math club and not like the cheerleader type. Right. Yeah, she's done very well in school, self-taught herself, guitar.

She's just a very intelligent little girl. Yeah. And, you know, this is actually a common thread that I see a lot when you have a child who says that they are confused about their, gender or who says that they are the opposite sex. A lot of times these factors are at play. They are exceptional in a lot of ways. Maybe they don't fit into the mainstream at school. And so as you guys pointed out when you kind of confronted her about this, it could be connected to some other things that had happened to her life or feelings that she had had. Do you know if she had connected to any kind of community online that would have made her believe that, hey, maybe you don't fit in because you

are really a boy? She did. So we, we use the app, I believe it is called Custodio, to limit her where she's allowed to go on the internet with her computer and her phone and to limit who she can talk to and stuff like that. But she's super, super smart and she found a loophole. And then I found out that she was on Reddit in these transgender communities talking to other people. You know, this is, gosh, I've had a lot of detransitioners actually on my show. And that is something that we hear so much, Tumblr and Reddit, and it's typically a kid who is, you know, had a trouble fitting in at school. And, you know, all of us at one point went through different things like that. But today it's different because then you can go online and you can talk to strangers

who then tell you lies about yourself that, oh, you don't fit in because you're really a boy or you're really this. And of course, for any 12-year-old, that's going to cause a lot of distress and confusion, right? Right. And so she finally, you know, found a community where she was liked and they were telling her how great and how important she was. Unfortunately, it's a community that was praying on her. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, that is just a commonality in all of these stories. Okay. So, but you did the, you know, you did the thing that parents, that all good parents would. You went to her and you talked to her and then you said, okay, we've got to go to counseling and we've got to figure this out. You didn't say,

okay yeah you're a boy let's just go along with this and call you a new name no we we realize i mean we're not naive and we realize that we we've had a a teen on our on our hands that's got some issues and we were helping to work through those issues the best we could via counseling and and things like that so we weren't turning a blind eye to it or anything we acknowledged that she felt that way and we explained why you know we didn't agree with it and it's not something we were okay with and we agreed that counseling would be a good start to work this out. Yeah, and this wasn't a daily problem that we're dealing with every single day. It was very rare, like years apart.

Right, right. So you guys didn't really get the indication from how she was dressing or how she was acting that this was really like a persistent, distressing feeling that she was having, that she was a boy. Correct. So regarding her clothes, because people have asked us, we've always allowed her pick out her own clothes. And the way that we've done that is we let her put the clothes in the Amazon cart. And then we look at them and say, is that an okay shirt or, no, you shouldn't have that.

And then we'll buy them for her. So she's always been a jeans and t-shirt kid. She's never been into dresses and fancy shoes or anything. She's just a normal tomboy kid. Yes. Yeah. And you know what? I was the exact same way.

And in some ways, I'm thankful that I grew up in the 90s. in early 2000s to where you could just do that and no one questioned anything. But gosh, it's a lot harder for kids who don't conform to, you know, the mainstream acceptable standards for, you know, what you're supposed to wear and things like that. So I understand that that was probably really difficult. Okay. So that was when she was about 12. And before I kind of fast forward to how everything has unfolded now, you did mention that

you guys go to church. And so you're Christians. and I'm sure that has something to do with this is a Christian show. I'm sure that has something to do with your opposition to a child identifying as the opposite sex. Now, at church, you said that a church leader came to you and said, she's asking people to call her Leo. Were there people in the church kind of affirming this idea that she was a boy? Multiple people were confronting us about it. Some of them were flat out saying we met your son at church today.

But they were really affirming her. I think people were kind of like, what do we do with this? Like, you know, this kid is saying this and how do you even, nobody really knows how to approach it. It's so new and especially in the little area that we are in. So, no, they were not going behind our backs and affirming or anything like that. No, the church was fantastic. So the counselors there, the faculty, all of them were just great. Okay, so they were just more confused about what was happening.

but she was maybe using their confusion as a form of affirmation for her trying to get them to call her Leah. Yes. Okay, let's fast forward then because you said that this wasn't a daily thing that was happening. You got her counseling. I'm sure that at one point maybe you thought that you worked through it. But what has happened recently that you have lost custody of your little girl? Right. So on August 18th, which was a Friday of 2023, we had received a call.

from our local police department saying that our daughter had ingested, no, at that point they said she was making threats with another child to take her life. And it's important to realize that she was mad at us that day. There was a whole thing where we explained to her that she had to quit her summer job because school was getting ready to start. And so she was pretty mad at us. And so this was what we viewed as her acting out and trying to get attention from another child. And so at 1.48 p.m., the local police officer called, and I was on the phone with him, and I stayed on the phone with him so that he could hear. And I walked back and I talked to our daughter. And, you know, I said, hey, you know, what's going on?

We're getting this report. Blah, blah, blah. We kind of had a conversation. And I reassured the officer that I don't believe she was coming through on any of these threats and that these threats were real. But we would definitely be watching her and making sure that she was safe. And if we felt we needed to, we would call the police or transfer it to the hospital if anything that we felt was strange or, you know, that she was maybe going to go through with these threats. Right. Okay.

And so that was in the afternoon. And so then at about 7.40 p.m. that evening is when children's services showed up at our door because they said the police officer could not speak to the child directly or lay eyes on her, even though he had never asked to do those things. he never came to our house. It was a simple phone call. Okay, so what happened after that? So we let her in the house and we gave her a tour of the house and we were kind of taken aback because we'd never been in that position. We didn't know what are you supposed to do? What do you expect? So I actually showed her every room of our house, even like our bedroom and our bathroom. I was like, well, and this is, you know, yeah. And then I showed her all the

food in the freezers and stuff and, you know, how well stocked our house was with food. I was making dinner at that point because we had a really late lunch that day because we'd been working outside. And from there, she said, okay, well, we need to talk to your daughter and I want to talk to her alone. And I was like, okay. So they went and spoke on the porch for about 10 minutes alone. And then Todd and I were kind of like, we're not real comfortable with this. So we went outside and that's when we were told that she had ingested toilet bowl cleaner and possibly some kind of, kind of painkiller like ibuprofen or Tylenol and earlier in the day. So that is what was told to us.

So we agreed then with children services that she needed to go to the hospital and get checked, even though we were like, I know she didn't do that, but let's go get checked just for safety concern. And you probably wanted to show this person that, okay, we're taking her seriously and we take her health seriously. So of course, we'll do the safest thing and take her to the emergency room. But I'm sure you're thinking, well, she doesn't have any signs of having ingested toilet bowl cleaner. So it doesn't seem very feasible. But sure, we'll do what we need to do and we'll take her to the ER. I'm sure you were just thinking that's the right thing.

Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country aren't just political. They're moral, spiritual, and rooted in what we believe is true about God, humanity, and reality itself. On the Steve Day show, we take the news of the day and tested against First Prince, principles, faith, truth, and objective reality. We don't just chase narratives and we don't offer false comfort. We ask the hard questions and follow the answers wherever they leave, even when it's unpopular. This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos.

If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this T-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us. Correct. So they had said that she reported she had taken these pills in this cleaner at about 3 p.m. Well, now it's after 8. And like you said, there were no signs of ingesting any kind of chemical, no, you know, throat burn, no sickness, no nothing. She was actually out in the yard playing with a dog like an hour before that.

So she was jumping around with a dog. I just, I knew it hadn't happened, but I was like, absolutely, let's get this checked just for safety issues. Yeah. Right. Okay. So you go to the ER. Did you have any other, any conversation with the CFS official after that, after you said, okay, we're going to the yard. Did she just leave?

No, she said, well, do you guys want to transport her? And I'll come to the ER also because I have to follow up. And we were like, okay, that's fine. You know, we don't have a problem with you following up. Obviously, we're taking this seriously, not an issue. Yeah. And you're thinking because, you know, I've talked to other parents in a similar situation. typically parents who know that they've done nothing wrong,

they are very open with these officials because they're thinking, we have nothing to hide. Sure, come into our house. Look at our food. Look at the bedroom. Sure, come with us to the ER. There's, you know, we have, we've done everything, right? And so you're thinking as long as they see that, everything will be fine.

I'm guessing that was kind of your mentality at the time. Exactly. We were like, we're 100% transparent. What do you want to look at? You know, and I kept asking her, I said, do you want to come and take pictures of our house so that you have it for your record? Because, again, never been in that position, didn't know what to expect, and didn't know what we were supposed to do. So we were absolutely 100% transparent and honest about everything.

Yeah. Okay. So she followed y'all to the ER, I assume, and what happened from there? So we got to the emergency room that evening. And they had, they were doing, they did some blood work on her, which we didn't see for another day or so. And then, you know, they talked about how if this is a suicide threat, somebody has to be admitted for 72 hours and watch to see what's going on. Like, why do you feel this way? You know, do we need to step in with treatment or anything like that? So we agreed that she needed to be admitted and we were fine with that.

And so then the next day is really when the problem started that Saturday the 19th, when she was put in a private room. And then there were people stationed outside her room all the time to watch her. So that's really when the issue started. And were you with her the whole time? So nurses, doctors, I guess they were coming in. They were trying to ask her questions, I'm sure, trying to assess, did she actually do this? Why did she do this? And were you there during those interactions?

We were there through late in the night. And then when they told us that she was going to be admitted, we went home that Friday night. So then the next day was Saturday. I did go and I spent every day I would spend four or five six hours at the hospital just you know Just so even though she I knew she was really mad at us But I wanted to make a point to her that were your parents and we're not going to go away You know no matter what's going on we're going to be there for you and that's why I spent so much time at the hospital Okay and so what happened then the next day when you showed up because you said Friday the 18th

This is Saturday the 19th and you said this is when things really started to get bad and accelerate. So what was going on? Almost immediately there was talk from our daughter and from doctor, or medical staff talking about Wyoming. And it was so much that we thought, okay, let's take a look at what's special about Casper Wyoming. And it was what we saw on the maps was Montana, North and South Dakota, Idaho. They all have laws banning. gender care and transitioning a child without parental approval. Wyoming does not have those laws in place. And that's where she wanted to go.

And that's what they were talking about sending her. Well, and also right from the get-go, the minute I got there on that Saturday morning, I was confronted with an aide who was calling her Leo and he, him. And I was like, hey, that's not her birth name. We're not okay with that. This is not what we're here for. and immediately they started kind of chastising Todd and I as parents like, oh, well, you need to respect what she wants.

She wants to be called Leo and that's what we're going to do. He was probably saying they were probably saying he. Yeah, they were saying he. And so right from the get go, there was problems. And I explained to the nurses on duty that I was unhappy and that according to Bill 99, which I'm still a little confused about Bill 99 if it ever wouldn't do effect or not. But at the time, I thought it was an effect. And I said, according to Bill 99, these are not things that you're allowed to do.

And they said it was a gray area that they weren't giving her puberty blockers or hormones. Right. And so they were allowed to address her as a male and give her. They were giving her male products to use, you know, body wash and deodorant and things like that. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. We were staying completely respectful and kind to the doctors. It wasn't confrontational anyway.

but they were being just the opposite, completely the opposite. And so some of the things that happened at the hospital that were alarming were, you know, the aid that was outside the door that was talking about how she identified as non-binary and she herself was going to go to a different city in Montana and get top surgery. So that was alarming and we were like, hey, this isn't appropriate. The aid was saying that about herself. Yeah, about herself. Okay, she was saying, well, okay, so this is an adult.

So that's legal. So she was saying, I'm going to go get top surgery. I guess trying to, I don't know what, show y'all that it's okay or trying to say I know what I'm talking about. It was in front of our daughter. Yeah. She was right there between. So our daughter was in the middle of us and that person. Yeah.

So the aide was sitting outside the door and we were sitting like on the other side of the room. And then our daughter was in the bed in the middle. And so she was having these conversations and saying these things. And we just were like, hey, this isn't, we don't need to know that much about your personal life. We're good. You know, we don't. And so I don't know if she was trying to convince us that that was okay or if she was just kind of bragging like, well, I do these things on my own.

Like, I'm not sure what her point was. So inappropriate, no matter what in front of a child. So inappropriate. And just in a professional setting in general, you guys didn't ask what she was preparing to do to her body or how she identified. That's extremely. I think I asked what her name was. So, I mean.

Even on her food. Yeah. And there were other incidents at the hospital. Like there was a nurse that was stationed outside the door. And a tray of food had come. And when I, when I mentioned to our daughter, you should eat something healthy on your tray. Because they were kind of, she was eating whatever she wanted. And that's like, she was getting things like, oh, I want rice and a milkshake.

And I'm like, well, there's no value in nutritionally in that. And so we were aware of like what she was eating. and things like that. So there was one day when lunch came and I said to her, you should eat something healthy on your tray. And the nurse, she was an RN. She was at the door and she just kind of rolled her eyes at me and did one of those. And then she screamed down the hallway, get this young man a banana split dessert. So things like that were happening constantly. We were being undermined. Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, I was just going to say our rights as parents and our authority as parents were being

constantly undermined the entire time she was in the hospital. So incredibly unprofessional and harmful. Also, it seems that they were trying to set an example for your daughter that it's okay to disrespect your parents. Your parents don't know what they're talking about. They don't get it. We're in the know. They're not in the know.

We want what's best for you. They don't. I mean, that is dystopian. And I'm sure very scary and just confusing for you as parents. It sounds like you tried to be as kind and transparent as possible. And then to basically be treated like you guys don't know anything and are actually harming your daughter. That's got to be really hard. Within just a couple days of her being there, the effects were loud and clear.

We saw a whole new side of her. It was like that enabled her and built her confidence in it. and she turned into something entirely different. So by the time she had been there three or four days, she was not even the same child at all, not even a trace. And, you know,

that's what people say that social transitioning, that that's, it's no big deal being called different pronouns or different names, that, you know, that has no effect. No, it has that exact effect.

It affirms, it affirms the wrong idea that someone has that they are the opposite sex and it gives them a very negative confidence to continue to affirm their own delusions that then leads down the path of mutilating your body and the name of trying to be something that you will never be, which is the opposite sex. And so as this is happening, yes, as this was happening, what were you guys thinking? Well, we were very alarmed and Children's Services was involved this entire time. So we were telling everybody that we're not.

okay with this this is not okay you know the doctor on duty as well as children's services and um children services was like well you know I understand why you're upset and things like that but at that point we were because we knew every day hold and then after that they said well she's still having these feelings of suicide even though her blood work had come back and there was no pills or clean or anything in her blood work. And so they suggested that she go to acute psychiatric care and inpatient counseling to help her through this episode. And Todd and I absolutely agreed with that. We were like, sure, whatever needs to be done to help her, we're 100% on board. So that's when we, you know,

things started kicking off. Like we were told there were six facilities in the state of Montana. And we expressed that we would prefer billings because that's where we went often for medical already. it would be convenient. We understood with six facilities, you should be able to find someplace for her to stay. And that's when they kept bringing up Wyoming over and over again. Okay, quick pause from that conversation

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And what happened after that? It wasn't just that they were. saying it was how they were saying it. There was always glances towards our daughter when there was affirming glances like even though we're telling you your your parents that there's going to be a bed in Billings, we're just saying that to them. You're going to Wyoming. That's kind of what the glances said to us. And it's important to note that as soon as Wyoming was brought up, we researched what the laws were in Wyoming because we had been so disrespected. as parents up to that point, we didn't trust the hospital or CPS or anybody involved.

And so we, in the very room, when Wyoming was brought up, we brought it up on our phones and we said, it looks to us like Wyoming doesn't have the same laws that Montana has. And how would we be protected? Who's protecting our daughter? You know, what is this going to look like? How would this work? And our CPS worker, I'll never forget her answer. She said, well, chances of Wyoming are really, really slow.

and she's most likely just going to be in Montana. So we'll all cross that bridge together when we come to it. It's not going to be an issue. Yeah, that was what she said. Okay, so you feared because of things that were being said, that she was going to be moved to Wyoming because Wyoming allows this quote-unquote gender affirming care for young people. But you were being told, oh, no, no, no, no, she's just going to go to Billings,

no big deal. Well, what unfolded after that? Right. So then on the evening of August 22nd, when, I left the hospital at a day. We were told she was next in line for a bed in Billings. So we were like, okay, you know, maybe a day or so, and she'll be going down to Billings, and we're totally fine with that.

So later on that evening, it was between 730 and 8, we got a call from the hospital saying that this bed had opened up in Wyoming and that she had to go. So we weren't, at that point, we didn't even know the name of the facility. We weren't told the name of facility. We weren't told, what are our rights? How does that work if a child goes out of state? once you've requested that they stay in Montana.

You know, we had all these questions and concerns, and we wanted them answered. And we were like, okay, well, who can we talk to? Who needs to be involved in this to help us and answer our questions and clarify these things? And we were basically told, she's not doing any good here in the hospital. She has to go to Wyoming, period. Are you refusing the bed? And we said, we want our questions answered. We are very firm on that.

And so they, within 10 minutes then, they showed up at our home, removing our daughter from our care saying that we were unable or unwilling to provide medical care when that's not the truth at all. Yeah, they simply would not answer any questions about what our rights were. Could she be transitioned without our approval like we read online? They would answer nothing. So, oh my goodness, I can't even imagine the despair that you guys felt at that point. I mean, what was it like watching your daughter walk out of your home and having no idea what's going to happen to her. Well, she, it was, it was crushing. I mean, we're, and you don't know who do you, who do you turn to, who do you talk to, who can help you, you know, all these things. And you,

you realize that things are escalating quickly and it's, it's way out of your control and nobody will answer your question. So it was very disheartening and very upsetting. And, and so what happened after that? So on August 23rd, um, she was transported to Wyoming. by a CPS worker. And part of our concerns on that transport were, even though they said you're not allowed to talk to her, you're not allowed to see her before she goes. They allowed her to go and go to her summer job and tell her friends and visit with her friends about all kinds of things regarding her personal life. And so we were upset about that. Where we're at, it's very, very small.

And, you know, I don't care about what people think about us, but our. our main goal is protect her and her mental health and her privacy. Yes. She's a lot to make phone calls to whoever say that she was suicidal, say that she was transgender. She was telling a lot of people this. And so we weren't sure if that was a HIPAA violation or not. Nobody told us anything.

Wow. Okay. So she went to Wyoming and were you able to connect with her at all? She went to Wyoming and she was in that facility for about a month. And we had a few phone calls while she was in my Wyoming. Nothing really ventful. But again, they were socially transitioning her and affirming her. So she was allowed to go by different names.

She was allowed to have men's products. She was allowed to live as a boy in this facility in Wyoming, even though the whole time we're like, hey, we're not okay with this. This goes against our wishes. This goes against our beliefs. We were told pretty much, well, we do what the patient wants. Wow. Okay. And you had no power to stop that or to change that. None at all. None of our wishes were respected or upheld or anything. So then at that point, after about a month in the acute psychiatric

unit in Wyoming, she was transferred to a group home in Billings, Montana. And things have just never, again, we've constantly said, we don't want this to happen. You're socially transitioning her. we're not okay with this. And none of our wishes have been respected. She's allowed to have a chest binder. She was allowed to shave her head. She's allowed to wear all men's clothes. She's in a therapeutic school setting.

And she's allowed to be in the boys' groups in that school setting. And present herself as a boy also in that setting. Oh, my goodness. Okay. So that's where she is right now. She's in this group home in Billings. And she is out of your custody. And I'm what is the the legal fight been like?

I'm guessing you're represented by a lawyer. Like what's what's the fight look like right now? Do you want me do? Not good. We have court appointed attorneys on it. And they put a gag order on us making it even tougher to fight this. They totally disable the parents' ability to fight for their parental rights, their freedom of speech and religion. It's all thrown right out.

So without being able to reach out to the press and online, there's no way to find anybody to help. But you guys have. You are doing interviews. We are. So we have a lawyer in place that's challenging the gag order. But I can't really comment on legal stuff because I'm not a lawyer and I don't understand the ins and outs of it. But what's been happening effectively is. is she's been socially transitioned against our wishes.

And at this point, our family unit is destroyed. I mean, how do you bring someone back when you say she's been allowed to live as a boy for the last six months or so? And we were like, no, we're not doing that here. I mean, how do you come back from that? So there's that issue. And then there's the issue that on the 19th, we had a court hearing where children services wanted out of the case. So they wanted to place with the birth mother in Canada and then just have the case dismissed and step out of it. Because they said, you know, they certainly don't want to violate our views and they don't really know what to do, but this is a new situation.

And the judge ruled that they could not step out, but they would have temporary custody for up to six months and that they would place with a birth mother in Canada, which is another one of our fears that we're having right now. Yeah. And in order to do that, there's a form that we're required to sign that says, We agree that we may never see her again forever. Okay, so that's what the fight looks like right now. You don't have custody of your child. She is in Billings, Montana being, she's wearing a chest binder, as you said. She shaved her head.

She is being presented as a boy named Leo. This all really happened in a matter of, it sounds like four to five days in August when she was initially removed, moved to Wyoming, and then moved to billing. So in a matter of few months, because of what you think. was a dispute over her quitting her summer job. Her life has been, she doesn't realize it, but her life has been ruined in a lot of ways. Not saying there's no chance of redemption because I pray and believe that there is. But, I mean, right now, like, your, I mean, your life and your family has been completely demolished because of a child, probably just resenting her parents temporarily, as we all did

as teenagers, over something extremely temporary. And the state is saying, yes, we have the authority to do this. Wow. Yeah, she's lost. So her grandparents, her cousins, her whole family is pretty much removed. Her sisters is a sister Tara that really loves her. And they've already court ordered or CPS has ordered that there's no contact there either. So it's amazing. And so tell me about this. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. I was just going to say, so she's effectively cut off of our family unit, you know, all of her cousins, her aunts and uncles, her grandparents, all of that. And tell me about this possibility of her moving in with her biological mother in Canada.

That's the current court order. Yeah, and it's concerning to us because there is a history of the children that we had in our care saying that, you know, this was an abusive situation when the birth mother was involved. And I've given that document to CPS, all of those documents, and their attitude is, well, that's not really what's going on now. That might have been in the past, so we're not going to worry about it. So we do have some concerns that are legitimate about Canada. We also have some concerns, you know, there's a form that Canadian immigration wants you to sign that

says you agree that you may be permanently separated from your child and never see them again. So in a sense, they're asking us to sign away our rights and say that we'll never talk to her or see her again if she goes to Canada. Oh, my goodness. And so they said to you, because this is a quote from you, I believe. We were told that letting Jennifer transition and live as a boy was in her, quote, therapeutic best interest. And because we weren't willing to follow that recommendation, the court gave CFS custody of Jennifer for six months. That's what's happened. Correct.

Yes. Yes. In fact, we knew that was coming when they sent the guardian ad litem to our house prior to that because the guardian ad litem seen our house. We had a pleasant conversation with her. Everything was great until she said, how is it going to look in our house raising a transgender child that do we agree to call her by her preferred pronouns and raise her as a boy? And she said, if we don't agree to that, then we're not going to like what she's got to say in court. Wow. About us.

They also provided us with an article. I can send it into your show that, you know, the guardian at Lytton was taking the stance of, well, she wants to be a boy and we need to advocate for what she wants. And again, like our rights as parents to say, no, you can't be a boy. Let's work through this again and more counseling and things like that. Those rights have been totally diminished and taken away. Yes, it has. And then it's also coming from the CPS and the attorney they've assigned to her. They come at us like criminalizing our love for our child and our parental,

for wanting to maintain our parental rights and to protect our daughter's future, but they're criminalizing that. Oh, my goodness. And why would they say that your daughter could move in with her biological mom in Canada From my understanding, she has not only not had a relationship with her for many years, but that her biological mother really mistreated her in the time that they worked together, correct? Well, the statue states that I'm not a lawyer, so I'm explaining it to the best of my understanding. There's a statue, and I don't know if it's in Montana only or across the board with everywhere,

But it states that if there are two parents, you know, biological parents, which would be Todd and the birth mother, and you want to take the child away from one set of parents, that you have to place them with their other biological parent if that person is available. Yeah, and there's no dispute between us and her biological mother. the whole thing with CPS flat out ignoring to even do a house check in Canada, those kind of things. And we don't suspect a lot there. But our point is that from what I understand the two agencies don't communicate. So children services in Canada and children's services in the United States, they're not agencies that communicate or even have the same policies or anything like that. So to send her somewhere where you haven't seen the house or anything, how have you investigated that that's a safe place?

Yeah. The whole reason they're doing that, though, is her birth mother is calling her by her preferred pronouns and is doing exactly what the court wants, you know, agreeing to raise her as a boy and all of that. Right. And I don't know. I'm sorry. Sometimes it's a little bit hard with Zoom to not talk over each other. Go ahead. I didn't mean to interrupt.

Oh, no, we're just saying, like, they're advocating for her to be able to live as a boy as she wants, and her birth mother is willing to support that when we are not. Yes. Right. And I don't know if you guys want to give comment on this, if you don't want to, but in the original report that I saw from Redux, they reviewed a counseling report that I think that you guys offered describing the relationship between Jennifer and her biological mother and the treatment that her biological mother

showed her sibling that apparently there was a lot of both emotional and physical abuse from her biological mother and I imagine that plays a part and the concern of the mother getting custody of your daughter, right? We have no idea what goes on in their home because it's been over seven years

so we really can't comment on that. There's, we've had communication with them and it's been, it was positive. So we can't really comment that way, I don't think. We are concerned. That is one of our concerns, but I'm hesitant to just keep throwing rock. We don't know what goes on in their house, you know. And so our attentions are to throw her under the bus or anything right now, but there's issues that we're concerned about that we want checked out.

Yeah, this is. Does that make sense? Yeah, that, yeah, that definitely makes sense. And I understand maybe not wanting to comment on the details of that. I think Redox was reporting on a counseling report that Jennifer had apparently told a counselor that there had been some very disturbing incidents of different kinds of physical and emotional abuse, name calling by Christine, her biological mother. So I think it's just safe to say that there are concerns and questions,

especially when someone is in another country and is affirming, quote, unquote, of a child's desire. to be the opposite sex, I think it is sufficient to say that there are simply some concerns. Absolutely, yes. And so how did this travel to the media? Because I only heard about this story this week. And so how has that developed? So when did a, before our January 19th court hearing, Todd and I felt that we were absolutely at a loss and we had no avenues and no one was listening to

us and no one was helping. So we made a video that we released on YouTube that was about 17 minutes long that just explained our situation and how we had gotten to where we were and how we believed that on that Friday, the 19th, they were going to take custody from us, which did happen. So we released this video and people started to see it and it just has kind of taken off from there. Yes. And some of the people that commented on it were actual lawmakers in Montana that said, hey, they're not following the laws we passed. They're doing this backward right in the comments on the video. We did not use our daughter's name in the video whatsoever.

There was nothing inappropriate in any way. So what happens next? Honestly, I'm not super sure. I know that there's more hearings coming up and what are the results of those hearings. I don't know. Okay. And so basically you just have to go through the legal. process. And the hope is that you, the hope is that you regain custody, correct? And that you're

able to try to put things back together. That's our hope. And, you know, we're never going to stop fighting for her and for what we think is right. And the system has destroyed our family unit the way that it was. Or never be, you know, our unit will never be whole or never be right again. So we feel like the only choice that we have at this point is to get the word out so that this doesn't happen to another family. I mean, in Montana, you think you're safe. You think that there's certain things that go on out there that you're kind of in a bubble and safe. And that's not what happened. We could even point to the governor, I believe, released a tweet on our story. And I call it word soup. It doesn't really say anything. And I don't know if you've seen that tweet or not.

Yes, I did. And I thought that it was, whether you call it word soup or word salad or whatever it is. Yeah, I didn't really say anything. It certainly was not the strength that I think a lot of us were hoping to see from especially a Republican governor, which I guess is exactly why you're in the situation that you're in. So I have interviewed, I think you might be the third or fourth set of parents that I've interviewed in a similar situation. And you're right, it's all over the country that this is happening. what message would you give to parents who find themselves in a similar circumstance? I would say, I don't think CPS is there to help you and your child. They're not. You know, they walked into a house where there was clearly no abuse, clearly a loving home, and they took things and they twisted it. So I would be very careful. Know your rights. Get legal representation as soon as possible. don't stop asking questions. Don't stop telling people if you're not happy about something. By being silent, you know, like if you're not happy about something and then you're quiet about it,

you're teaching them that that behavior is okay when it's not. Yep, yep. Unfortunately, and I think so many people have had the same mentality as you that you have nothing to hide. So you let CPS into your house. You allow your child to talk to CPS. I totally understand making those decisions as people who are very, confident in the home that you've built, the safety that you've given to your child. But unfortunately, the more access from what I've seen that you give CPS, the more information that they use and try

to weaponize against you, even if it requires them to completely twist the facts of a situation. So as awful as it is and as sad as it is, I do hope that somehow this story is used to help other parents and to... And that is our goal and that is our hope. Like we understand, like I said, our unit is destroyed, but we can only hope now that by getting the word out that this will help other parents and you'll know what to look out for and be aware of when things that, you know, we have hindsight right now, but it's not helping. Okay, final question. How can people best support you? We do have a give-s and go where we're trying to raise money for, so we don't.

have to use public defenders who are a part of the system and embed with CPS. We're not trying to throw our public defenders under the bus, but we don't feel that we've been listened to and we've been helped in any way that benefits our family. So again, we have a give-s-s-and-go where we're trying to hire another lawyer to take our case and to help us fight for our daughter. Right. Okay. Well, we will make sure to include that link in the description of both the YouTube video and if people are listening in Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and the link will be in the description that can click on that and support you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. Oh my goodness. Gosh, what a horrifying nightmare. Literally parents' worst nightmare. I don't know anything more dystopian and more

wicked than this. And there are so many lessons I think we can glean from their story. one and this is not me victim blaming because I do think the parents absolutely are the victims here. Their child is the victim here. And so hindsight is 2020. I'm just saying what I'm about to say as someone who has interviewed parents like this and who has seen these kinds of stories over and over again. This is not me trying to condemn. It's just the truth. Our kids do not need to be on social media. They don't need to have smartphones. And I know that they had put mechanisms in place, as you heard, to make sure that she wasn't seeing things that she wasn't supposed to see. But kids are very technologically proficient these days.

They're even savier than parents. And so we have to be extremely vigilant to protect our kids from those things. And I know that teenagers, I remember doing the same thing to my parents. We all did in one way or another. You try to shame your parents into allowing you to do more things than they want you to do. All my friends are doing it. All my friends have smartphones. All my friends have TikTok.

accounts, whatever it is. And so you have to let me do this. And especially a child who had been bullied who had been excluded, I think that's even more difficult for parents of that child because you want so badly for your child to find happiness and inclusion and acceptance somewhere. So it can be really persuasive when the child says, look, I'm just so unhappy in my real life. Can you at least let me find some happiness and inclusion virtually? I don't know if that's what happened in the situation, but I can imagine that it's very difficult. I can. sympathize with that, that it's difficult for parents in that position, especially if the parents are part of a generation where they were not raised with social media and smartphones and things

like that. We just underestimate the danger and the predation that's out there. I have heard that over and over again. The same story. So sadly, that kids who felt excluded, felt bullied, for whatever reason, they were different. Maybe they were what some people would call nerdy or dorky or they just didn't care about the fashion trends. or doing the same things that the cool kids were doing, whatever, they just feel different. Daisy Strongen sat on my couch and basically said the same thing. She felt different. She wasn't sure why she felt different, but she felt different.

And then to find some kind of acceptance, some kind of community, they get online. They go on Tumblr. They go on Reddit. And then they're met by a bunch of other kids, a lot of times not kids, a lot of times young adults, who have also felt different. And they finally feel like, wow, other people out there like me. They feel different too. They were not cool. They were not accepted. They were not the popular cheerleader. Okay, I can become friends with these people online. And what happens is a lot of those people have convinced themselves and then go on to convince other people that while the reason

that you've been excluded, the reason that you've never felt fully comfortable and confident, is actually because you are really a boy or you're really a girl. You're really in the wrong body. And if you can just identify as the opposite sex, finally you will feel fully confident and comfortable, then you will be accepted. It's really kind of like a self-rejection. It's wow, it's my gender. It's my former identity that has caused me to be excluded and bullied. And if I can just be someone else, I think for a very long time, people who have been victim, of chronic bullying have believed that if they were different, if they were born a different way, if they had a different personality, a different name, a different appearance, then maybe people

would finally like them. And at one point, everyone just knew, okay, that's something that you have to work through. That's awful. Bullying is awful, but it's, you know, it can be character building. You can work through it. And then there will be a time when you're an adult where you look back and you say, wow, those people didn't matter. Those people who peaked in high school and made fun of me for being good at math or whatever, those people didn't matter. And I'm comfortable with who I am now. That is part of life. I'm not saying we should accept or tolerate bullying at all. I actually think that's another lesson that we can learn here, how absolutely devastating bullying is and how parents of bullies also need to take bullying more seriously and keeping their kids in check. Gosh,

But also a lesson here is that enduring bullying and suffering bullying is different today because the respite from bullying and the reprieve from being excluded now is found in very dangerous and predatory places like Reddit and Tumblr who are praying upon a child's vulnerability, praying upon their inability to think through the consequences of their actions, praying upon their immaturity, their emotional instability, their feelings of alienation from their parents or their community. And they are saying, yes, pray you are the opposite sex. You need to change your gender.

Misery loves company. I think people online have a million different reasons for, praying upon a child in that way. Some of that I think is just commiseration. Some of it is actual sexual predation. I think that there are adults online who get off on talking to a child about things that have to do with sexuality and gender and their private parts because that is what we're talking about here. But then I also just think it's a social contagion. Just like eating disorders in the past have been a social contagion or cutting can be a social contagion. This is the new social contagion for a lot of young kids. I think for girls, there is very often a history of bullying,

and I'm not saying in this case, I don't know, but a history sometimes of sexual abuse and things like that, or they're just uncomfortable being sexualized as a young girl going through puberty. I think that sometimes is what motivates the so-called transition. And then for boys, I think a lot of it has to do with pornography. Very, the darkest forms of pornography you can think of, I think, are affecting young boys' minds, what they think about themselves and their body and their identity. But I also think bullying does play a role there as well. And so in the name of trying to affirm and accept the state, state authorities, the government is saying, yeah, we will allow this child whose frontal lobe has not developed, who cannot think through the ramifications

of their actions, who cannot think through long-term consequences, we are going to allow them to permanently maim their body in the name of affirmation. And parents are trying to stand in the gap, but as you can see, these parents are powerless. So what other lessons can we learn in addition to not letting your child on social media, making sure that you as a parent are keeping bullying and check whether your child is on either side of it. Another lesson that you can learn. I think another lesson that we've seen over and over again, not just in these kind of situations, but also with the lady that we had on this couch who refused to vaccinate her kids and the state went after her as well, is that you don't need to let these people into your

home. Don't let these people into your home. You need to lawyer up immediately. You refuse to talk to them. You refuse to allow your child to talk to them. And you immediately get a lawyer. I know that that seems like that is an admission of guilt and you are innocent. And so you don't want them to think that you've got something to hide. But you don't have something to hide. Unfortunately, that's just how it's played. That is how the legal system works. CPS is going to try to find anything that they possibly can. I'm not saying every CPS employee. But from what we've seen in these nine may our scenarios, the CPS employees are trying to find anything that they possibly can to use against you. They are going to twist things that you say. They are going to misrepresent what's

actually happening because they are, and sometimes, sometimes, depending on the state, they are incentivized by profit to try to go after families and to separate the families and then they can go to court and the case just lasts longer. And so they are incentivized by money in a lot of cases. And unfortunately, again, I don't know if that's the case here, but in talking to people who are experts in this system, in the CPS system, there are very often DEI racial quotas to be met. There is a reason why families that are dealing with real abuse,

where a child is really neglected and really abused, but say the parents happen to be black or Hispanic or race, that is overrepresented in the foster care system, those CPS workers are incentivized to turn a blind eye to those cases and then to turn their direction towards other cases so they can make sure that they are meeting quotas of quote unquote equity to make sure that there are no disparities in the racial representation in the foster care system and the CPS system. It really is that evil. I will link two past episodes that speak to this. I will link an episode that I did with Naomi Wright. about CPS and what they do and why they do what they do.

And then I will also link a past episode with the mom who almost lost custody of her child for, it seems like, refusing to vaccinate. Okay. So those are some lessons learned there. I do want to talk about what the governor of Montana said quickly before we close this out because I think there's another lesson to be learned here. So this is according to Daily Mail, Republican Montana governor, Greg Jeanforte, defends state's decision to remove 14-year-old teen from her parents who disagreed with her wish

to transition. So he posted this long Twitter thread. I won't read the whole thing. But as Chris said in this interview, it really was a lot of word soup and word salad. Upon hearing recent allegations, he said, related to a child welfare case, I asked Lieutenant Governor Kristen Juris to an experienced attorney, constitutional conservative mother and grandmother to review it, consulting with the director of DPP HHS and personally examined. in case documents, Lieutenant Governor, Juris, has concluded that DPP, HHS and the court have followed state policy and law in their handling of this tragic case. I've asked Lieutenant Governor to continue monitoring the cases it progresses. So someone's lying here, right?

Either the parents are completely misrepresenting what happened, which it seems to me like they've tried to be as transparent as possible, and they have opened themselves up to scrutiny and to questions as much as possible. and I had a ton of the information in front of me already that they told me and everything that they said matched what I had in my research notes. So I'll just say that. Obviously, I am not involved in the case. So I don't know everything that happened behind the scenes, but I can tell you that what they said today matched detail by detail all the research that we already had based on the reports that have already been published. So someone is not telling the truth here. Either it's the governor, either it's the lieutenant governor, either it's the parents, or maybe it's

CPS and they're misrepresenting what happens. I'm not sure. What I do know is that this should never happen. This should never happen where the hospital, where the nurses, where the staff are calling a young child by the pronouns that do not coordinate with their sex, that don't correspond with their sex. That should never happen. It should never happen that a child is removed from their home because they are confused about their gender and their parents are doing the loving and truthful thing by affirming that child's sex. That shouldn't happen. It should be illegal for a hospital to call a child by the pronouns that correspond with their opposite sex. That should be illegal. It shouldn't even be a question. It should not be a gray area. There should be

no social transitioning. Everyone in that child's life should do everything they possibly can to reconcile that confusion or deceit that the child has in their mind with the reality of their body. That's the loving thing to do. The loving thing to do is not to destroy that child's body by trying to reconcile the body with the confusion that the child has in their mind. That is evil. That is wicked. And to try to take away parental authority in a case like this where it seems like the

parents are just trying to do the right and truthful thing, that is evil. That is dystopian. This is another reason why Christians must absolutely. speak out about this. We absolutely must. Any Christian that says we shouldn't be involved in the culture of war, any Christian that says, well, we shouldn't be involved in politics

because that's just divisive. This doesn't matter. We should just do the empathetic thing and just affirm people. This is what you are supporting by saying that. You think Christians don't have a role to play in this? This is exactly why the secularists don't want evangelical Christians to think that we should allow our worldview to influence the things that we say, the things we think about culture and politics.

because we are literally the last and biggest impediment to this kind of madness, to the destruction of the family, the destruction and the butchering of children's bodies, whether it's through this or whether it's through abortion, we are the last stand. Of course, that is why these secular progressives want to say, well, you evangelical Christians, you should just separate what you think about God and the world and gender and all of that from what you think about public policy and public discussions of the so-called culture wars. That's what's happening here. And another lesson to be learned is that it's not enough to elect a Republican. The pressure needs to be on the governor, not just for this case, but for the sake of all parents going through something

like this. Don't you see, like, that this isn't real? Like, this person isn't really the opposite sex that she was groomed like so many other kids on social media into thinking something that is simply not true. Like, we are in such clown, crazy, evil world that this is even a question or discussion or a debate to be had in anyone who votes Democrat or I would say any Republican, anyone who votes for any politician who is not so strong and so clear on that, that's a problem. Okay. That's a problem. It's clearly not just the Democrat Party.

Like I would say, okay, it's the Democrats who are for this, who are pushing this. And that's still true, by the way. Like you will not find a Democrat who will stand against this kind of thing. But also, weak Republicans are a huge problem, arguably a bigger problem. Chris Rufo, he's someone who agrees with that assessment. He says to the Montana governor's tweet thread, this is insufficient. If Montana state employees forcibly removed a child from her parents,

placed her in medical custody, and then facilitated her migration out of state for a child's sex change procedure, those employees should be investigated and punished under law. Of course, that is absolutely true. Now, Montana does have Senate Bill 99, who was a ban on, quote unquote, gender affirming health care for minors. Senate bill for 58, a bill to define sex as strictly binary in Montana Code,

House Bill 359, a ban on drag performances and many public spaces. But as you heard in this, there was a lot of maneuvering, a lot of maneuvering by these employees and by these hospital workers to try to skirt around any laws on the books. And so any loopholes that are available in these laws need to be closed right now. And every single legislature and every single Republican-run state needs to be on this right now. And this needs to be an election issue. This needs to be something where we are raising a respectful ruckus.

We are picking up the phone. We are calling our state senators. We are calling our state representatives. and we are saying, what are you doing about this? Now, maybe you live in a state where the laws are already on the books and they're already sufficient. But this is something that we absolutely have to raise our voices about. What do we say?

Politics matter. Policy matters. People matter. Politics affects policy. Policy affects people. And people matter. Politics is one way to love your neighbor. And what are Christians except a refuge for the most vulnerable for women and children?

That's what the church has always been. that's what we must still be today. Do not listen to any stupid idiot who tells you that Christians aren't to be involved in this stuff. That's not just idiocy, it's evil. We have to stand up for what's right in this. Okay. So I've got time for today. On Monday, we will be here with an interview, Megan Basham of the Daily Wire,

and we are actually going to be talking about the secular entities that are funding curriculum and funding, well it's church curriculum and also funding organizations that claim to be nonpartisan Christian organizations trying to bring Americans of all political stripes together. Really, it's a front for progressive ideals and families like the Rockefellers happen to be behind them all. Very interesting. You will want to hear that on Monday. All right. Everyone have a great weekend and we will see you guys then. Hey, this is Steve Day. If you're listening to Allie, you already understand that the biggest issues facing our country

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This is a show for people who want honesty over hype and clarity over chaos. If you're looking for commentary grounded in conviction and unwilling to lie to you about where we are or where we're headed, you can watch this D-Day show right here on Blaze TV or listen wherever you get podcasts. I hope you'll join us.